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Log for #openttd on 24th February 2015:
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00:02:41  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
00:02:56  <glx> anyway no station tiles use bit 7
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00:08:29  <samu> class 0x80
00:08:37  <samu> m1 0xa3
00:10:16  <samu> i see
00:10:25  <samu> where that 1 comes from
00:10:36  <samu> it's an industry before a station is planted on it
00:11:57  <samu> class 0x50, m1 is 0xb0
00:12:18  <samu> that's the station in oil rig
00:12:27  <samu> it's on a canal
00:12:44  <samu> canal is mine I think
00:12:51  <samu> don't know how to tell now
00:13:54  <samu> •m1 bits 4..0: owner of the station
00:14:11  <samu> the station is owned by no owner
00:14:23  <samu> but the canal is
00:14:31  <samu> owned by company 1
00:14:46  <samu> or maybe it's not
00:14:51  <samu> I dunno how to tell
00:17:45  <samu> fastforwading game for oilrig bankrupcy
00:20:09  <samu> it says owner N/A
00:20:22  <samu> let me save and reload on debug version
00:21:42  <samu> class 0x60, m1 is 0x30
00:22:09  <samu> canal with no owner?
00:23:03  <chillcore> <samu> i think i'm starting to understand
00:23:17  <chillcore> I see someone will be running circles around me soon-ish
00:23:23  <samu> so, upon oil rig placement, the canal becomes owned by no owner
00:23:27  <chillcore> nice very very nice ;)
00:23:58  <samu> it was owned by company 1
00:24:18  <samu> what is nice?
00:26:54  <glx> oilrig station has no owner
00:27:26  <glx> and stores only one owner
00:27:38  <glx> so canal owner just disappear
00:28:15  <glx> because it's a station usable by anyone
00:28:21  <glx> same for buoys
00:28:47  <glx> hmm no buoys have owner
00:29:34  <glx> it's the owner of the tile the buoy is built on
00:29:56  <chillcore> samu: seeing your progress ;)
00:32:02  <samu> so this means m3 is not free
00:32:07  <samu> to store canal owner
00:32:16  <samu> because industry is putting stuff in m3
00:32:30  <samu> right?
00:33:41  <glx> but the oilrig station tile is a station not an industry
00:34:14  <samu> what about the other tiles
00:34:29  <samu> there's 5 more tiles
00:37:17  <glx> but indeed it's an industry tile during construction then become a station
00:38:14  <glx> and there's no free space in industry tiles to store 2 owners
00:39:53  <samu> crap :(
00:40:21  <samu> there's 5 bits
00:40:26  <samu> but they're all sparse
00:43:13  <glx> oh then it's doable
00:43:44  <samu> m1 is probably not
00:43:48  <samu> so, there's 4
00:44:57  <samu> let me look at water, canal, station
00:46:55  <samu> looks compatible
00:47:15  <samu> m6 bits 8..7, and m6 bits 1..0 - the only 4 bits available
00:48:35  <glx> you could also abuse industry m1 to temporary store canal owner for oilrig tile
00:53:19  <glx> hmm no there's no owner for industries
00:54:15  <samu> i dont think i need 5 bits
00:54:17  <samu> only 4
00:55:06  <glx> 15 companies + OWNER_WATER = 16 so 4 bits
00:55:27  <samu> canal is owner_none
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00:58:37  <glx> ah yes canals can't be owner_water
01:01:16  <glx> but they can be anything else including OWNER_TOWN and OWNER_DEITY
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03:21:30  <chillcore> good night
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09:01:55  <andythenorth> o/
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10:40:04  <chillcore> hello all
10:41:43  <chillcore> when creating bundles, do the windoze bundles have the same content as the linux bundles?
10:42:16  <chillcore> moki made a binary for me but it is missing files while it has too many.
10:44:51  <chillcore> so I intend to fix it for him this time and ask for him to use make bundle next time ...
10:46:59  <juzza1> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Sorting_vehicles_in_the_purchase_list should be at http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Block_syntax since it's a self-contained block. y/n?
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11:08:08  <planetmaker> juzza1, yes, that's right, I think
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11:12:30  <supermop> yo
11:15:15  <chillcore> oy
11:16:07  <planetmaker> chillcore, in principle the bundles should contain the same. Of course different binaries.
11:20:13  <chillcore> Thank you for the info planetmaker. I'll rezip then while removing excess folders and files based on what I see in my self made bundle.
11:24:03  <chillcore> Might it be a good idea to add COPYING to the bin folder, regardless of creating a bundles or not? Just to avoid the prob of that missing in the future? It happens quite often it is not there because of not knowing ...
11:24:15  <chillcore> Just thinking out loud ...
11:25:37  <planetmaker> chillcore, no, putting that in the bin folder is against the definition of the paths
11:26:37  <planetmaker> chillcore, each platform has a bundle target. When that is used, there is no such problem as missing files. Problems only arise when people hand-create the "bundles". And forget language files, script-API files, base set files, documentations
11:27:40  <chillcore> yeah exactly. Also it would not stop people from adding too much.
11:28:03  <planetmaker> chillcore, also you can check which files per platform: our CF uses the same bundle targets as anyone can use. So if it's in those bundles, then it should be in the custom-built one as well
11:29:20  <planetmaker> also, I say 'should'. Bugs do happen. But it's quite some time ago something was changed there
11:29:47  <chillcore> Like you say the prob araises when creating binaries manually. Maybe the wiki could be a bit more explicit about that being a bad idea.
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11:45:37  <chillcore> hmm it crashes unser wine ... I'll guess I'll just ask him to redo it using make bundle.
11:46:14  <chillcore> + have to*
11:47:42  <__ln___> unser wine...
11:50:07  <chillcore> thanks  __ln__  I did not even see that ... man I need my new glasses ... if only they did not give me such a headache due to my depth perception changing.
11:53:56  <planetmaker> chillcore, better test in a real windows :) virtualbox VMs are free to get: http://modern.ie
12:13:30  <chillcore> thank you for the link planetmaker ... just a bit confused ... "These VMs will epxire ..." are there non expiring VMs too?
12:20:25  <planetmaker> chillcore, I would not expect. After all they live from selling non-expiring licenses :)
12:20:57  <planetmaker> but you can extent it several times, I think each time for 3 months up to 1 year in total or so
12:21:09  <planetmaker> look for windows and rearm :)
12:22:25  <planetmaker> chillcore, however, if you do have a valid license, you can probably change the license key in the VM. Or at least create a VM from your install DVD.
12:22:38  <planetmaker> but that's not as easy anymore as just downloading it :)
12:23:13  <chillcore> would it not be easier if I just used my official win8 cd    <- typed before you answered
12:25:53  <chillcore> I have a licence for xp too but it is tied to the machine (as is the second win8 licence I have)
12:27:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the expiring VM is not an issue, you can just restore the blank slate from the initial download
12:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you loose everything you ever did in the VM, though
12:28:10  <chillcore> so create VM and install standalone win8 in that from DVD ... hmm ... I hope I will not screw up my linux install
12:28:15  <Eddi|zuHause> also, keys are not "tied to a machine"
12:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> there are OEM keys that can only be sold with a machine, but once you have that key, you can do whatever you want with it
12:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause> (though "whatever you want" means: you have to remove the installation from the machine before using the key on another machine. legally speaking)
12:31:00  <chillcore> this laptop has a sticker for win7 ... only valid on this laptop. at least that is my understanding of it. when I asked for support a while back they said I had to contact Toshiba ...
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12:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i once had an install CD that refused to install on a "wrong" system
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12:32:27  <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm sure that can be overridden somewhere, but i didn't bother)
12:33:42  <chillcore> prob is that manufactors of OEMs version include their drivers, also you get win for free so to speak
12:34:26  <chillcore> my DVD I can install on multiple PCs, under the condition only 1 pc is used ata a time
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12:34:55  <chillcore> but my XP sticker will not work on another machine for as far as I am aware
12:35:33  <chillcore> lucky me has XP DVD without serial
12:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i somehow doubt that.
12:36:02  <chillcore> hmm maybe things have changed ...
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12:37:34  <chillcore> to be clear ... legl XP DVD normaly used by shops and such, still need to register within 30 days ;)
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12:38:21  <chillcore> I cold give that a go to see if it allows me to use that sticker key
12:41:06  <chillcore> perhaps better if I finish my patch first. hehe
12:50:29  <chillcore> BTW ... if anyone wants a copy of that XP DVD ... I am allowed to share it but you will not get a key ;)
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12:59:17  <chillcore> hmm this I don't like ... Some Windows features that transmit data may be turned on in the VMs. These features are described in the Windows Privacy Statement for the particular version of Windows and Internet Explorer included in the VM.
12:59:35  <chillcore> ^^^ from that link you provided planetmaker
12:59:51  <chillcore> I'll look for another VM I guess
13:00:37  <planetmaker> read the privacy statement :)
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13:03:25  <chillcore> I would if I could find them :P
13:04:45  <chillcore> I'd really have a more permanent solution too ... maybe I'm just being thick
13:06:40  <chillcore> I'll pop in my win8 HDD for a sec to test ... then I can do this properly later.
13:06:57  <chillcore> bbl
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13:34:54  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: actually, MS do tie licenes to hardware
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13:53:55  <V453000> only if you buy such license
13:54:19  <V453000> there are other licenses which dont care which motherboard they are on
14:01:52  <OsteHovel> OEM licences are in text binded to manufactorer, but the retail and VLK versions are not
14:02:22  <OsteHovel> Btw. windows xp install cd can be downloaded free and no login needed from microsofts own page
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14:17:59  <samu> hi
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14:46:57  <samu> who's owner deity?
14:47:12  <samu> where can i see a list of owners
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14:48:20  <samu> companypool?
14:48:58  <planetmaker> the game itself is the deity
14:49:56  <planetmaker> owner deity can do stuff which somewhat is against the player rules. Like creating money from thin air. Or defusing it into thin air
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14:52:58  <samu> company_type.h
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14:53:49  <samu> 	OWNER_DEITY     = 0x12, ///< The object is owned by a superuser / goal script
14:53:52  <samu> ah
14:54:27  <samu> there's a total of 19 owners
14:56:05  <samu> i only have 4 bits
14:56:28  <samu> but i don't suppose I need to store all owners
14:56:54  <samu> i need to store all 15 companies and the NO_OWER
14:57:14  <samu> 16
14:59:46  <samu> can OWNER_TOWN, OWNER_WATER or OWNER_DEITY have canals at any chance?
15:01:25  <samu> I am worried about OWNER_TOWN mostly
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15:02:01  <samu> binary 1111 means it's OWNER_TOWN
15:02:34  <samu> but in this case, i'd want 1111 to mean that it's OWNER_NONE instead
15:03:39  <samu> and only if the tile is a canal
15:05:38  <samu> i must be absolutely sure that towns can never own canal tiles
15:05:45  <samu> how can i be sure?
15:10:58  <samu> maybe i can use m1 bit 4 if i'm careful enough
15:22:19  <samu> question
15:22:38  <samu> landscape_grid.html
15:23:00  <samu> at industry class, m1 bit 5
15:23:34  <samu> that bit was set to 1, but when i placed a oil rig, it became 0
15:23:48  <samu> how's it not being used?
15:24:16  <samu> why did it become 0? what is it doing
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15:28:11  <samu> if it's not being used by industry, then who changed it
15:31:10  <Taede> maybe it gets set to 0 *because* industry doesnt use it?
15:31:30  <planetmaker> :)
15:31:35  <Taede> eg, any unused bits get zeroed upon change of tile-type
15:31:49  <Taede> that would be my guess at least
15:31:58  <planetmaker> iirc things are zeroed, yes
15:32:42  <Xaroth|Work> o/ Taede
15:32:52  <Taede> ello
15:33:46  <heffer> planetmaker: any chance we see a fixed nml release tarball sometime soon? maybe without the crazy version foo in the filename? :3
15:34:58  <samu> aww, too bad, I was hoping to use that bit as an indicator if that water tile was owned by a company or not
15:35:20  <samu> a flag
15:35:24  <samu> or something
15:37:03  <samu> where in the code can i see it being set to 0, :o
15:40:04  <samu> it was of tile type water
15:40:17  <samu> then changes to tile type industry, during construction
15:40:35  <samu> and in the end changes to tile type station, for oil rig station
15:40:59  <samu> all 3 can be built on canals
15:41:21  <samu> canals can have 16 owners
15:41:27  <samu> i assume it's only 16
15:42:16  <samu> station and water already share that bit, indicating if it's part of no owner group or part of company/town group
15:42:27  <samu> industry however, sets it to 0 :(
15:42:43  <samu> i dont want it to change
15:42:48  <samu> how do I find this
15:45:10  <samu> i want it to maintain whatever value it was there
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15:47:50  <chillcore> hello
15:47:57  <Alberth> moin
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15:48:10  <longtomjr> Hi guys
15:50:08  <Alberth> o/
15:50:18  <samu> CommandCost CmdBuildIndustry(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
15:50:21  <samu> is this it?
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15:50:31  <longtomjr> havent played in a while, Go with 1
15:50:38  <longtomjr> .1.5* or 1.44
15:50:44  <longtomjr> >
15:50:45  <longtomjr> ?
15:50:51  <samu> IndustryType it = GB(p1, 0, 8);
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15:54:26  <V453000> longtomjr: why would you get an older version?
15:56:04  <longtomjr> just stable vs beta
15:56:17  <V453000> "beta"
15:56:25  <V453000> it is fine and has a lot of new features
16:01:26  <samu> please explain me what this do
16:01:26  <samu> SB(_m[tile].m1, 0, 4, 0);
16:01:32  *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker
16:01:32  <samu> is it what I think it is?
16:01:47  <Alberth> my mind reader is broken currently, sorry
16:02:06  <samu> set bit tile in this case is industry
16:02:14  <samu> m1
16:02:24  <samu> now 0, 4, 0 i am not sure
16:02:46  <samu> static inline void ResetIndustryConstructionStage(TileIndex tile)
16:02:47  <Alberth> please read the documentation of the SB function
16:04:00  <samu> i have a feeling that 4, should be a 3
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16:08:12  <samu> @param n The size/window for the new bits
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16:08:32  <samu> @param d The actually new bits to save in the defined position.
16:08:44  <samu> @param s The start position for the new bits
16:09:04  <samu> static inline T SB(T &x, const uint8 s, const uint8 n, const U d)
16:10:16  <samu> ok, i guess this is it
16:10:20  <samu> gonna put a 3
16:10:26  <samu> and test
16:11:44  <samu> ◩m1 bits 3..2: construction counter, for buildings under construction incremented on every periodic tile processing
16:11:55  <samu> ◩m1 bits 1..0: stage of construction (3 = completed), incremented when the construction counter wraps around
16:12:08  <samu> why would it reset bit 4?
16:13:33  <Sonny_Jim> How can I set my server to pause when there's no players?
16:16:56  <chillcore> https://wiki.openttd.org/Min_active_clients
16:17:45  <samu> nooo, this wasn't it
16:17:46  <samu> :(
16:18:01  <Sonny_Jim> chillcore: Thanks
16:18:05  <Sonny_Jim> was grepping for pause
16:18:22  <chillcore> you're welcome ;)
16:20:46  <Sonny_Jim> Ha well I'd setup a server for me and the girlfriend to play on and unfortunately it's been running for years
16:20:49  <Sonny_Jim> oopsy
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16:23:14  <samu> ah
16:23:16  <samu> static inline void MakeIndustry(TileIndex t, IndustryID index, IndustryGfx gfx, uint8 random, WaterClass wc)
16:23:36  <samu> 	_m[t].m1 = 0;
16:23:51  <samu> that means m1 becomes 00000000 ?
16:23:57  <samu> all of it?
16:26:34  <samu> how do i make it 000x0000? that bit 5 to remain unchanged?
16:26:55  <samu> untouched
16:28:12  <planetmaker> &= 00010000
16:30:28  <samu> it's bit 4 or 5? I confuse myself sometimes
16:31:28  <samu> bit 4 it is
16:33:44  <Sonny_Jim> Another quick question, how do I set the map size in openttd for a dedicated server?
16:33:49  *** Progman [~progman@p57A19810.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
16:33:52  <Sonny_Jim> *openttd.cfg
16:34:42  <planetmaker> Sonny_Jim, though the easiest way for a dedicated server is to create the map locally, and then upload to server and load from server
16:34:57  <Sonny_Jim> Ah I see
16:34:59  <Sonny_Jim> Makes sense
16:35:00  <Sonny_Jim> thanks
16:35:05  <planetmaker> unless you want to completely automate that it's much nicer to see what you get :)
16:35:10  <Sonny_Jim> Sure
16:35:22  * Sonny_Jim activates columbo mode
16:35:28  <Sonny_Jim> Just one more thing....
16:35:37  <planetmaker> :D
16:35:41  <Sonny_Jim> She's in Australia, I'm in Europe and she gets dropped occasionally
16:35:52  <Sonny_Jim> The log is telling me to modify a network freq variable?
16:36:02  <Sonny_Jim> net_frame_freq?
16:36:05  <planetmaker> bad connection. But yes, that one
16:36:13  <Sonny_Jim> (actually the log says a different variable)
16:36:21  <planetmaker> well, what does it say? :)
16:36:24  <Sonny_Jim> I guess the name of it has been changed and the log not updated
16:36:28  <Sonny_Jim> err let me check
16:36:35  <Sonny_Jim> frame.freq I think it was
16:37:04  <Sonny_Jim> Might want to update the log with the new variable name
16:37:12  <planetmaker> but yes, you can increase that variable, net_frame_freq. But all what it does is to allow her to play with a bigger lag
16:37:35  <Sonny_Jim> That's fine
16:37:45  <Sonny_Jim> Only happens very occasionally
16:38:53  <chillcore> bbl
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16:40:55  <planetmaker> Sonny_Jim, there's also max_lag_time
16:41:17  <Sonny_Jim> line 1860 of src/network/network_server.cpp
16:41:25  <Sonny_Jim> "try increasing [network.]frame_freq to a higher value!"
16:41:31  <Sonny_Jim> Is that still right?
16:41:43  <Sonny_Jim> or should it be net_frame_freq?
16:43:58  <planetmaker> hm. The text is correct... the variable is 'frame_freq'. But the console calls it net_frame_freq
16:45:19  <planetmaker> but it prints to console... so yes... it should give the name used there
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16:47:31  <Sonny_Jim> See?  Open source works :-)
16:49:00  <planetmaker> it does :)
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16:52:02  <samu> sorry, im dumb
16:52:04  <samu> _m[t].m1 &= 0x10;
16:52:11  <samu> what is this doing
16:52:47  <planetmaker> hm, yes. but net_frame_freq is a registered alias for frame_freq. Thus it seems to have been renamed somewhen in history, Sonny_Jim. Probably both would work, frame_freq as well as net_frame_freq. You can check by issuing the command in console:
16:52:47  <samu> whatever, i'm gonna try
16:53:09  <planetmaker> rcon RCONPWD "set VARIABLENAME value"
16:53:46  <Sonny_Jim> Well, my thinking was that I was going to change it in the .cfg fle, so if both works on the console but only net_frame_freq works in the cfg, it would make more sense to me to have it print net_frame_freq.
16:53:59  <Sonny_Jim> But it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other really
16:54:24  <planetmaker> in the cfg it will be frame_freq
16:54:41  <planetmaker> but being net_frame_freq an alias it should state the proper name, frame_freq :)
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16:58:21  <planetmaker> hm... none of my cfgs know such variable.
17:00:24  <planetmaker> hm... none of my cfgs know such variable.
17:02:01  <V453000> bastard configs
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17:02:24  <samu> planetmaker: _m[t].m1 &= 0x10; is this correct?
17:02:42  <planetmaker> no
17:03:25  <planetmaker> samu, but you should use it and see what it does. Then you'll learn the difference
17:03:46  <samu> I did
17:03:54  <planetmaker> http://xkcd.com/953/
17:04:38  <samu> it changed to 0x30
17:04:48  *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
17:04:55  <Sonny_Jim> Bitmasks are fun ;-)
17:05:11  <planetmaker> they are :)
17:05:16  <Sonny_Jim> You trying to turn on bit 10?
17:05:27  <planetmaker> bit 4?
17:05:30  <samu> no, trying to not change bit 4
17:05:33  <Sonny_Jim> Oh ok
17:05:36  <samu> keep what it is
17:05:46  <Sonny_Jim> Well, 0x10 isn't going to that (from what I remember about bitmasks)
17:06:03  <planetmaker> 0x08, I'd recon
17:06:10  <samu> set every other to 0, except bit 4, which is to remain what it is
17:06:22  <samu> if it's 1, then 1, if it's 0, then 0
17:06:26  <Sonny_Jim> &= ANDs them together, doesn't it?
17:06:38  * Sonny_Jim is thinking this through
17:13:35  <Sonny_Jim> Yeah, I'm with planetmaker on this one
17:13:47  <Sonny_Jim> Bit 4 = 8
17:14:05  <roidal> value &= 1<<4
17:14:18  <Sonny_Jim> Yeah that's probably an easier way to remember it
17:14:29  <Sonny_Jim> 1 shifted to the left 4 times
17:14:49  <roidal> ok, its value &= 1 << 3
17:14:51  <roidal> :)
17:14:55  <Sonny_Jim> haha
17:14:58  <Sonny_Jim> I suck at bitmasks
17:15:10  <samu> i put this, wondering what it does: SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0);
17:21:29  *** alluke [~oftc-webi@62-78-237-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
17:25:09  <samu> gah, the game already converts company owned canals into NO_OWNER
17:25:26  <samu> i must be blind or somethng
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17:34:20  <samu> build on sea SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0); -> 0
17:34:49  <samu> crap no
17:35:37  <samu> it must say 0x10
17:35:43  <samu> not 0
17:37:23  <samu> build oil rig on sea _m[t].m1 = 0 -> 0
17:38:05  <samu> build oil rig on canal of company 1 _m[t].m1 = 0 -> 0x20
17:39:22  <roidal> placing rail on a tile with trees, does this count like clearing the tile and decrease company rating at the town near to the tile?
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17:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:41:44  <samu> build oil rig on sea SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0); -> 0x10
17:42:37  <Eddi|zuHause> placing rails or other stuff counts as clearing the tile, with all costs and other effects that go with it
17:42:45  <samu> build oil rig on canal of company 1 SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0); -> 0x30
17:43:24  <samu> hmm
17:44:19  <samu> i was hoping for 0x20
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17:45:19  <samu> ah ya, the game converts canals to no owner
17:45:29  <samu> yeah, that's the thing i have to implement
17:48:12  <samu> make industries will need 2 owners as well
17:48:20  <samu> one to store canal owner
17:48:30  <samu> is that doable?
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17:49:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think industries have space for that
17:49:35  <samu> there is
17:50:02  <samu> at m6
17:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause> that again raises the question: why? you can't use the canals under the industry, so why would you keep paying maintenance for them?
17:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause> imagine the industry buys the canals from the company on construction
17:51:33  <samu> but they can close
17:51:56  <samu> canals under it would revert back to original owner
17:52:28  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a useless corner case
17:55:06  <Terkhen> hello
17:55:16  <Alberth> hello
17:56:36  <alluke> does anyone have an idea how to convert .xcf to any other image file format?
17:57:11  <alluke> on mac
17:57:24  <Eddi|zuHause> open in gimp, export
17:58:17  <alluke> i dont have gimp and i dont want such obsolete piece of shit software which i have no use for
17:58:24  <alluke> i already have photoshop cs5
17:58:52  <planetmaker> you can take advice. Or not. your choice
17:58:57  <alluke> tried some online services but both of them failed
17:59:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if that were as good as you claim it to be, it would have an importer for this file format
17:59:04  <alluke> is gimp the only one?
17:59:40  <planetmaker> you go and search and find out and report back on that
18:00:12  <alluke> i think .xcf is so unused and/or bad that no other software has added support for it
18:00:16  <alluke> already done :(
18:00:33  <roidal> Eddi|zuHause: thanks
18:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> http://image.online-convert.com/convert-to-jpg <-- this is like the first google result for "convert xcf"
18:01:34  <alluke> yep
18:01:38  <alluke> thats the one i tried
18:01:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and?
18:02:00  <alluke> xcf->psd conversion failed
18:02:20  <alluke> it gives me the link but that doesnt work
18:02:25  <alluke> says the file isnt available
18:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> then i can't help you.
18:03:27  <alluke> np
18:03:44  <alluke> There has been an error converting your file. Please take a look at our FAQ.
18:03:51  <samu> industries have no owner
18:03:56  <samu> hmm hmm... huuuummmm
18:04:14  <samu> MP_HOUSE, MP_VOID and MP_INDUSTRY.
18:04:30  <V453000> suspension bridge unwrap is fucking ass
18:04:51  <alluke> may the devil eat the head of the invertor of such shitty format >:(
18:05:02  <samu> what can I do:!
18:05:23  <samu> industry itself has no owner, but...
18:05:36  <samu> i'm screwed
18:05:46  <V453000> I love how in this discussion everybody is talking to themselves about their own topic
18:06:21  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
18:06:25  <andythenorth> o/
18:06:33  <alluke> o7
18:06:45  <V453000> o/
18:06:54  <samu> can i store the owner of canals in industry m6, somewhere in bit 7..6 and 1..0? will the game hate me for that?
18:07:35  *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387a2bd.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
18:07:41  <roidal> is there a easy way to upgrade a line from electrical to magnetic?
18:08:13  <roidal> (to change depots and trains)
18:08:59  <samu> that location appears to be compatible with station, water and industry
18:10:46  <samu> or do you have other plans?
18:11:54  <Alberth> roidal upgrading is so boring, instead build new routes
18:12:05  <Eddi|zuHause> roidal: the "universal track type" grf
18:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: i would strongly advise against this
18:13:15  <roidal> a "upgrade depot and all including trains"-button would be nice
18:13:17  <roidal> :)
18:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> roidal: that can't be done
18:13:38  <Alberth> roidal: play with a different trainset instead
18:13:57  <roidal> Eddi|zuHause: what's the problem?
18:14:03  <roidal> Alberth: hm
18:14:43  <samu> hmm :(
18:15:04  <samu> i'm not making myself clear on the issue
18:15:27  <samu> what i build is a canal, i want it to store canal owner on m6 part
18:15:28  <Eddi|zuHause> roidal: you need to set up an autoreplace rule for each vehicle, and then you need a depot that can support both the old and the new vehicle.
18:15:55  <samu> when i build a industry on a canal, it won't touch whatever it is in that m6 part
18:16:55  <samu> when industry closes, it still wouldn't touch whatever is on that m6 part
18:17:14  <samu> canals are rebuild, and will re-use what's in m6 part, to restore original owners
18:17:28  <samu> is this gonna work?
18:18:49  <samu> same goes for station
18:18:59  <samu> dock, oilrig station, buoy
18:19:22  <samu> and depot
18:19:25  <samu> ship depot
18:25:46  <samu> i will also re-use m1 bit 4 for some condition
18:26:26  <samu> pfff...
18:27:13  <samu> if 1, then no owner
18:27:25  <samu> ignore anything on m6 part
18:27:40  <samu> if 0, then a company owns something
18:29:26  <samu> if water class = canal, and that m1 bit 4 = 0, then get the owner stored in m6 part
18:29:31  <samu> lels
18:30:07  <samu> if water class = invalid, ignore anything on m6 part
18:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the more you go on, the more terrible it sounds...
18:30:59  <samu> if water class = sea, ignore m6 part
18:31:07  <samu> if water class = river, ignore m6 part
18:31:12  <samu> why?
18:31:19  <juzza1> is there a way to make an articulated vehicle show a precise capacity in purchase menu (using the same vehicle for the articulated parts)? using purchase_cargo_capacity cb still multiplies the shown capacity by the amount of articulated parts
18:31:34  <andythenorth> juzza1: you have to know the capacity
18:31:48  <andythenorth> also
18:32:02  * andythenorth thinks
18:32:08  <Eddi|zuHause> juzza1: if the parts have different capacity, then you really should use different part IDs...
18:32:31  <andythenorth> iirc, you just return the capacity you want
18:32:39  <andythenorth> when the cb is handled
18:33:10  <andythenorth> if it’s the cb for purchase_cargo_capacity, it shouldn’t be summing the parts, unless I have vastly forgotten something
18:33:45  <andythenorth> I will now paste you some completely unhelpful code which is not relevant to your problem :P
18:34:47  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/templates/capacity_switches.pynml
18:34:48  <juzza1> Eddi|zuHause: is there some gameplay-related reason for this?
18:35:00  <andythenorth> that code is probably not useful, but eh
18:35:36  <andythenorth> L5, you just return the capacity of your vehicle
18:35:49  <andythenorth> forget most of the other stuff, it’s not relevant
18:36:21  <andythenorth> this is better https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgzmpbwd0
18:36:24  <andythenorth> that’s the compiled result
18:36:46  <andythenorth> these vehicles double capacity if the cargo is mail, you probably don’t want that
18:37:12  <juzza1> everything is good except for the wrong capacity shown at purchase menu
18:41:30  <andythenorth> paste your code
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18:44:23  <Alberth> hai
18:45:07  <juzza1> just a sec, making a test nml
18:45:20  <juzza1> or grf
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18:48:18  <frosch123> hola
18:48:40  <frosch123> has anyone of the windows users tried the last nightly?
18:49:02  <frosch123> would be good to know whether right-mouse-button scrolling is completely broken before releasing beta2 :p
18:49:25  <frosch123> i cannot test it in my vm, because rmb-scrolling fails with absolute pointing devices
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18:55:22  <juzza1> andythenorth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptrutsndc both have 99 purchase capacity (bad) and 33 capacity when inspected (good)
18:57:01  * andythenorth looks
18:57:38  <andythenorth> iirc, spec prefers splitting IDs for lead and trailing parts, due to props that need to be 0 for trailing parts
18:57:49  <andythenorth> but still, don’t think that explains this issue
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19:03:21  <V453000> frosch123: 27168?
19:03:48  <juzza1> i guess the capacity of the first vehicle isn't even strictly defined, since position_in_consist is not available in purchase menu
19:03:51  <frosch123> V453000: yup :)
19:04:02  <V453000> stuff is scrolling for me.
19:04:27  * andythenorth can’t remember how to handle this stuff, it used to be a PITA
19:04:37  <frosch123> also when scrolling long distance without releasing the mouse button?
19:06:01  <andythenorth> dunno, seems capacity just works in Road Hog
19:06:11  <andythenorth> but I don’t reuse same ID for lead / trailing parts
19:06:21  <V453000> yes frosch123
19:06:23  <V453000> flawless
19:06:28  <juzza1> I'll go with separate ids then
19:06:29  <frosch123> ok, thanks :)
19:06:36  <V453000> yw
19:07:14  <samu> question, can towns build houses on river or canal tiles?
19:07:33  <samu> i hope the answer is no
19:08:28  <frosch123> there are some permanently anchored "ships" at the river in my town
19:08:44  <frosch123> do they count as houses?
19:08:46  <samu> i know they can build houses on partial sea/ground tiles
19:09:14  <samu> but then again, rivers and canals can't be built there
19:09:19  <frosch123> they are supposed to be fancy restaurants, but they do not look that fancy anymore
19:15:03  <frosch123> http://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/2wpct2/why_is_15_so_wet/ <- does this match the other mhl mapgen issues?
19:17:02  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.38.183] has joined #openttd
19:17:14  <Wolf01> hello
19:17:29  <samu> brb
19:25:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27169 /trunk (5 files in 3 dirs) (2015-02-24 19:25:31 UTC)
19:25:38  <DorpsGek> -Update: Documentation
19:27:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27170 tags/1.5.0-beta2/ (2015-02-24 19:27:06 UTC)
19:27:13  <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.5.0-beta2
19:27:48  <samu> here's what i've been workign on
19:27:51  <samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
19:28:02  <samu> figuring out that grid map
19:28:08  <samu> for m1 cell
19:28:35  <samu> it's at the right side
19:31:35  *** samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-252-91.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:31:42  *** samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-252-91.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
19:31:48  <samu> i'm counting bits wrong
19:31:55  <samu> should start at 7 and finish at 0
19:32:00  <samu> let me fix
19:32:16  <samu> fixed
19:33:09  <samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
19:34:07  <samu> i've been giving special attention at that bit 4
19:34:26  <samu> it's always 0 when it's owned by a company
19:34:37  <samu> and 1 when it's not, that's why I think i can use it
19:37:57  *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
19:40:09  <Sonny_Jim> So, with max_platform_length = 5, does that mean I can fit trains that are 10 in it?
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19:47:40  <samu> if using default trains, yes
19:48:23  <andythenorth> also where is cat?
19:48:57  <Alberth> Sonny_Jim: you do get a loading time penalty if the train is longer than the platform
19:50:27  <samu> albert, i found a "not a bug yet"
19:50:46  <samu> but it would be helpful if it was fixed
19:52:07  <samu> it's at line 283 of industry_map.h
19:52:31  <samu> it is setting all of m1 to 0
19:52:39  <samu> but according to grid
19:52:56  <samu> m1 b4 is not used
19:53:00  <samu> bit 4
19:53:44  <samu> landscape_grid.html
20:02:50  *** alluke [~oftc-webi@62-78-237-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:05:10  <frosch123> @seen lordaro
20:05:10  <DorpsGek> frosch123: lordaro was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 3 hours, 13 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <LordAro> or notepad++
20:06:36  *** longtomjr [~oftc-webi@196-210-62-230.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:16:27  <samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxiroplnx
20:16:30  <samu> pleese!
20:16:31  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
20:16:53  *** chillcore [~chillcore@91.182.36.19] has joined #openttd
20:17:01  <chillcore> o/
20:18:42  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd
20:19:41  <samu> oh, forgot to add a comment
20:24:35  <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.4.4, 1.5.0-beta2
20:24:35  *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.4, 1.5.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
20:25:47  <samu> is this a good comment?
20:25:49  <samu> 	SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0); // Make sure bit 4 is not changed.
20:26:20  <samu> changed? altered? zero'ed? is that even a term?
20:26:31  <samu> untouched
20:26:35  <samu> intact
20:26:45  <samu> unaffected
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20:29:53  <samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pigwwlfp4
20:30:38  <samu> if there's another elegant way to write that piece of code to do the same, plz teach me
20:33:38  <Alberth> _m[t].m1 &= ~(1<<4)    ?
20:34:19  <Alberth> hmm, wrong,   _m[t].m1 &= 1<<4;
20:37:12  <Sonny_Jim> could someone check that they are able to connect to this server please; openttd.servebeer.com
20:37:15  <Sonny_Jim> Thanks
20:39:58  <samu> &= 1<<4
20:40:47  <samu> ok, wondering what &= do
20:40:50  <samu> brb
20:41:45  <Sonny_Jim> There's a good wiki page about C bitwise operators
20:42:01  <samu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operators_in_C_and_C%2B%2B#Operator_precedence
20:42:09  <samu> Assignment by bitwise AND
20:42:21  <samu> yeah... I mean what?
20:42:56  <Sonny_Jim> 00 AND 11 = 00
20:43:03  <Sonny_Jim> 01 AND 11 = 01
20:43:17  <samu> and the << is Bitwise left shift
20:43:32  <Sonny_Jim> Yes, so 1<<4 is 1000
20:47:56  <samu> confused
20:49:08  <Alberth> what's the confusion?
20:49:21  <samu> my understanding
20:50:57  <samu> at bit position 4 it does something like << and then 1
20:50:58  <samu> lol
20:51:54  <Alberth> 1 is a '1' bit at position 0,  which is equal to 1<<0
20:52:26  <Alberth> 1 << 1  increments the position by 1, a '1' bit at position 1, thus 1<<4 is a '1' bit at position 4
20:52:50  <Alberth> it's literally shifting bits
20:54:04  <samu> what about zeroing the others?
20:54:43  <samu> bit 4 is incremented by 1
20:54:51  <samu> becomes 10?
20:55:06  <Sonny_Jim> 8 in decimal
20:55:10  <Sonny_Jim> 1000 in binary
20:55:27  <samu> isn't that bit position 3?
20:55:32  <Sonny_Jim> No
20:55:41  <Sonny_Jim> bit 1 is 1, bit 2 is 2, bit 3 is 4
20:57:07  <raincomplex> depends on if you're counting from 1 or 0 ;P
20:57:26  <Sonny_Jim> My bitwise stuff is fairly rusty
20:57:43  <samu> 76543210
20:57:57  <samu> bit 4
20:58:01  <samu> or the 10000
20:58:15  <Alberth> yes it's position 3 (2**3 == 8)
20:58:27  <raincomplex> oh yeah 1<<4 is 10000
20:58:36  <raincomplex> remember that 1<<0 is 1
20:58:42  <Sonny_Jim> Aaah
20:58:46  <raincomplex> heh
20:58:56  <Sonny_Jim> I need some bitwise oil on my brain gears
20:59:04  <raincomplex> bits are ugly
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20:59:33  <Alberth> nah, they are the simplest thing that exists
20:59:53  <samu> what happens to bits 765 and 3210 albert?
20:59:53  <Alberth> I mean, it has 2 values, how complicated can it be? :)
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21:00:13  <Sonny_Jim> a 3210 bit number would be impressive
21:00:23  <samu> those locations
21:00:24  <Alberth> samu: when?
21:00:37  <samu> in that operation
21:00:44  <Sonny_Jim> Oh I see, you are referring to your example
21:00:51  <Alberth> which one,  the  & or the << ?
21:00:56  <Sonny_Jim> 7653210 &= 1<<3
21:01:10  <samu> (m1)
21:01:12  <Sonny_Jim> Err, bad example
21:01:40  <samu> _m[t].m1 &= 1<<4;
21:01:43  <samu> gah, ok here it is
21:02:41  <Alberth> _m[t].m1 &= 1<<4    is (almost) the same as  _m[t].m1 = _m[t].m1 & (1 << 4);
21:03:11  <samu> ah
21:03:58  <Alberth> the difference is that the _m[t].  part is not computed twice
21:04:36  <samu> if m1 is 10101010 then it becomes 10111010?
21:05:16  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A44A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:05:18  <Alberth> no
21:05:56  <samu> 00010000 ?
21:06:12  <Alberth> suppose the right bit is 0, what is the result for the left bit being 1, and for left bit being 0 ?
21:06:31  <Alberth> ie what is   1 & 0  and what is  0 & 0   ?
21:07:06  <Alberth> similarly, same question for right bit is 1   (thus   1 & 1  and  0 & 1)
21:08:03  <Sonny_Jim> I think you want to use OR instead of AND
21:08:32  <LordAro> a week ago? no way was it a week ago i last said something
21:08:35  <LordAro> o/ frosch123
21:09:00  <frosch123> yeah, i wondered as well :)
21:09:16  <Alberth> nope, not if you want to clear out all bits but bit 4
21:09:27  <Sonny_Jim> Oh ok
21:09:29  <samu> the right bit is 0, increment 1, right bit becomes 1?
21:09:35  <LordAro> @seen lordaro
21:09:35  <DorpsGek> LordAro: lordaro was last seen in #openttd 59 seconds ago: <LordAro> o/ frosch123
21:09:36  <Sonny_Jim> I thought he wanted the bits the same, but to turn on bit 4
21:09:41  <LordAro> well, it's not broken
21:09:45  <frosch123> LordAro: i definitely had no second thougths on highlighting you
21:10:06  <samu> i want 765 then 3210 to turn into 0
21:10:12  <LordAro> i'm always here
21:10:14  <LordAro> ..watching
21:10:16  <samu> and i want 4 to stay
21:10:16  <Sonny_Jim> Ah, AND it is then
21:10:19  <LordAro> ..waiting
21:10:32  <Sonny_Jim> Oh ok, that's different
21:10:35  <samu> ok, but still i don't understand how to read
21:10:42  <samu> interpret the operators
21:11:22  <Sonny_Jim> 0x00 &= 1<<4 if my brain isn't completely dead
21:11:30  <frosch123> "second thoughts" is not the right term, no idea what is the correct one though
21:11:51  <frosch123> maybe "hidden agenda"
21:11:56  <LordAro> :p
21:13:51  <Sonny_Jim> Ah wait, you want bit 4 taken from the original variable thingy-me-bob
21:14:01  <samu> suppose the right bit is 0, what is the result for the left bit being 1, and for left bit being 0 ? i'm trying to answer this question yet
21:14:13  <Sonny_Jim> ok, so lets break it down
21:14:19  <Sonny_Jim> 1 & 1?
21:14:33  <juzza1> 2
21:14:36  <Sonny_Jim> ;-)
21:14:53  <Alberth> juzza1: 10 in the binary system :p
21:15:31  <LordAro> frosch123: but yeah, wiki updated :p
21:15:42  <frosch123> thanks :)
21:16:36  <samu> that's it, I'm dumb
21:17:29  <samu> 1 & 0
21:17:32  <samu> 0 & 0
21:18:43  <samu> right bit is incremented by 1
21:19:05  <Alberth> maybe you want to read what the AND operator does
21:19:28  <samu> Bitwise AND
21:19:33  <samu> Left-to-right
21:19:37  <samu> keks
21:19:39  <samu> i don't know
21:22:39  <FLHerne> samu: 'left-to-right' not an issue, it just ANDs each corresponding pair of bits
21:23:31  <FLHerne> So 1100 & 1010 is 1000, because 1&1 is 1, 1&0 is 0, 0&1...
21:23:33  <samu> i'm reading this, hoping i learn something http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_shift
21:23:49  <FLHerne> Oh, shifts now
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21:29:44  <samu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation#AND
21:33:15  <samu> ahm
21:33:34  <samu> there it is
21:33:36  <samu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_conjunction#Applications_in_computer_engineering
21:34:38  <samu> For example, 10011101 AND 00001000  =  00001000 extracts the fifth bit of an 8-bit bitstring.
21:35:00  <samu> AND is an extractor
21:35:02  <samu> now I know
21:35:02  <samu> :p
21:35:17  <FLHerne> samu: Among other things
21:35:49  <samu> &= means extract and then equal to the value extracted?
21:36:19  <FLHerne> a &= b is equivalent to a = a&b
21:36:35  <FLHerne> So yes, if you're using AND that way
21:36:50  <samu> intresting
21:36:56  <frosch123> he, i recently read that k&r c actually uses "=-" instead of "-="
21:37:08  <frosch123> which made "a=-5" ambiguous
21:37:30  <frosch123> C really has a history of terrible syntax :)
21:38:57  <samu> logic was my worst class in university
21:40:07  <samu> i was better at math with those ugly big matrix things
21:40:10  <samu> than logic
21:40:12  <FLHerne> frosch123: Really? That would be inconsistent with all the other thing= operators
21:40:19  <FLHerne> Unless they were all that way?
21:40:31  <frosch123> yup, they were all reversed, resp. existed in both ways
21:40:59  <Sonny_Jim> a += 1 increments a by 1, the same as a = a + 1
21:41:39  <Alberth> x[i++] += 5    :p
21:41:57  <frosch123> FLHerne: i always say, if C++ was made by the same guys as C was, then public/protected/private would be written as "**:" "***": and "****" :p
21:42:10  <Alberth> which is where   +=   and  normal assignment makes a difference
21:42:17  <frosch123> though < > of c++ templates are also awesome ambiguous
21:42:20  <Rubidium> Alberth: luckily there are at least 3 locations in that statement where it might behave differently than you expect it to (with C++)
21:42:37  <frosch123> or the new rvalue references :)
21:43:09  <FLHerne> "1972 - Dennis Ritchie invents a powerful gun that shoots both forward and backward simultaneously. Not satisfied with the number of deaths and permanent maimings from that invention he invents C and Unix."
21:43:10  <Alberth> Rubidium: yeah, operator opverloading for the win :p
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21:43:38  <FLHerne> That timeline page was fun, I should bookmark it and then wonder why I did so
21:43:50  <samu> _m[t].m1 &= 1<<4;
21:43:59  <samu> is this teh same as
21:44:05  <samu> _m[t].m1 &= 0x10;
21:44:52  <Rubidium> and the same as _m[t].m1 &= 020; ;)
21:45:25  <frosch123> yay, more terrible syntax :)
21:45:30  <Rubidium> yay peculiarities
21:45:51  <samu> ok', i'll use alberths' syntax
21:46:23  <Rubidium> talking about peculiarities... in Window's calculator the result of certain calculations differ between "simple" and "programmer"/"scientific" view
21:48:31  <frosch123> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19205-01/819-5265/bjbfb/index.html <- haha, some items on that list are hillarious
21:49:05  <glx> Rubidium: rounding ?
21:49:09  <frosch123> "Accepts 8 or 9 in octal escape sequences. " <- but knowing my co-workers, i can imagine that that is an actual compatibiilty issue
21:49:12  <glx> or precision ?
21:50:08  <samu> here it is https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk5aoucx0
21:50:18  <samu> better?
21:51:27  <Rubidium> glx: try 1+2*3
21:52:13  <glx> oh nice
21:52:29  <samu> 1 & 0 = 0?
21:52:34  <samu> NOOO, that can't be
21:52:57  <samu> 1 & 1 = 1 else it's not doing what I want
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21:53:20  <frosch123> Rubidium: do you hint that it changes operator precedence?
21:53:22  <glx> programmer respects operators precedence
21:53:31  <frosch123> btw. since when does win calc support terms?
21:53:45  <Rubidium> 6.something
21:54:08  <glx> simple mode just execute operations as you give an operator
21:54:17  <samu> im gonna test this
21:54:17  <samu> brb
21:58:01  <chillcore> Alberth ... I do hope you are right about the mountains being glitch free now. ;)
21:59:22  <frosch123> http://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/2wpct2/why_is_15_so_wet/ <- chillcore: do you have an idea about that?
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22:02:14  <chillcore> higher maxheight, less water, up scale is what I would try first
22:02:26  <chillcore> scale ofcourse is in the source
22:02:42  <chillcore> less variation too
22:02:44  <frosch123> i wonder whether it is a similar precision issue as with that other fs task
22:02:57  <chillcore> too bad I can not see the gamesettings
22:03:13  <frosch123> iirc. water level was choosen after generarting the basic heights to match water level
22:03:26  *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker
22:03:44  <chillcore> I have not yet browseed the thread ... lemme have aquick glance
22:03:59  <frosch123> well, there is only the screenshot
22:04:07  <frosch123> the rest is hot air
22:04:41  <chillcore> it reddit ... what did I expect :P
22:04:45  <samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk5aoucx0
22:05:01  <samu> if bit 4 is 0, will that turn to 00000000 as well?
22:05:04  <chillcore> 8 comments hehe
22:05:37  <chillcore> too high water level ... I think
22:05:42  <chillcore> maybe bad seed too
22:05:52  <chillcore> it all ties so closely toghether
22:05:58  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
22:06:23  <samu> i really hope so, cus i don't have a way to test that atm
22:06:25  <chillcore> moki seems eager to help me tune the perlin noise
22:06:48  <chillcore> I want to give him the option to tune small maps too first ... kinda
22:07:00  <chillcore> so I can continue concentrating on the rest
22:07:34  <chillcore> as for the picture ... the perlin noise plays a rather big factor and I am not happy with what is in trunk now
22:07:39  <frosch123> very flat + very high variety seems to result in a lot of water
22:07:41  <chillcore> damned ISP
22:07:47  <chillcore> yes
22:07:55  <chillcore> reduce variety
22:07:59  <frosch123> very flat + very high variety => very very flat :p
22:08:07  <chillcore> hehe
22:08:24  <chillcore> but ye if you already start with flat ...
22:08:34  <chillcore> then  you get flatter as variations
22:08:41  <chillcore> kinda logical
22:09:28  * chillcore ponders making that max height setting magically disapear and fix it at 255
22:10:02  <chillcore> ^^^ I can make as flat as I want with perlin noise despite that setting ;)
22:10:11  <samu> nevermind, I discovered windows calculator can do AND operations
22:10:17  <samu> I am sooo dumb
22:10:20  <frosch123> you need some definition what height actually means
22:10:30  <chillcore> hehe
22:10:36  <frosch123> the height scale defines rainforest, newgrf mountatins and stuff
22:10:49  <chillcore> yes I know
22:10:54  <frosch123> if you fix it at 255, you will never have "high terrain" on small maps
22:11:33  <frosch123> you could tie it stronger to the map size
22:12:07  <frosch123> similar as to "load heightmap", which warns if the selected map size ratio differs a lot from the image ratio
22:12:23  <chillcore> hmm .... I will dive into this later, I know there is stuff I do  not know about
22:12:27  <samu> 11111111 AND 00010000 = 00000000
22:12:28  <frosch123> (like generating 16x4k map from square image)
22:12:31  <samu> nop
22:12:49  <samu> 1111 1111 AND 0001 0000 = 0001 0000
22:12:49  <frosch123> i.e. give a warning if the max height does not fit well to the map size
22:13:12  <samu> 1110 1111 AND 0001 0000 = 0000 0000
22:13:36  <chillcore> frosch: yes we could do something like that.
22:13:45  <frosch123> or make it choosen automatically for random maps (won't work that well in scenedit though)
22:14:05  <chillcore> I just do not understand where all the bugreports went while doing my pacthpack ...
22:14:38  <chillcore> at least someone should have reported probs ... regarding this setting I mean
22:14:43  <frosch123> were there bug reports? :)
22:14:48  <chillcore> nope
22:15:01  <chillcore> not in regards of newGRF, forest and the likes
22:15:09  <frosch123> exactly :p people do not report bugs for patches, because they count as unfinished
22:15:16  <chillcore> true
22:15:17  <frosch123> people assume that everyone knows about the bugs
22:15:24  <planetmaker> *assume* :)
22:15:26  <chillcore> also true
22:15:38  <samu> implement this patch for me plz
22:15:47  <samu> it's working, according to windows calculator
22:16:16  <samu> then i can work on the rest
22:16:31  <samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk5aoucx0
22:16:49  <chillcore> but yeah we could make a difference between simply generating maps and the scenarioeditor, in regards of certain behaviour during mapgeneration
22:16:59  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:17:24  <planetmaker> chillcore, yes. Though when it comes to setting parameters: why?
22:17:51  <planetmaker> though the SE could offer advanced generation options which don't fit the quick map generation window.
22:17:58  <planetmaker> but then the question will come: why :)
22:18:54  *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
22:19:15  <chillcore> because if you click "new game" I asume you want a quick game
22:19:37  <chillcore> when you click create scenario yo want freedom?
22:19:44  <chillcore> to create that is?
22:19:51  <frosch123> we need a mapgen preview :)
22:19:57  <planetmaker> yes. And yes, too
22:20:03  <frosch123> then we can add lots of settings without explanation :)
22:20:16  <chillcore> that would help a lot frosh
22:21:05  <frosch123> one could just add a bok "map shape" and then 10 unlabeled sliders under it :p
22:21:09  <frosch123> *box
22:21:28  <planetmaker> lol, frosch123 :)
22:21:34  <chillcore> hihi
22:21:57  <chillcore> tooltip "does something"
22:22:02  <frosch123> today we have to explain stuff like "variety distribution"
22:22:17  <planetmaker> But you better name them so people can discuss. Catchy names like Rusty Rain, Amazing Abyss, Fine Fissures... :P
22:22:24  <frosch123> though usually it is shortened to "do not choose 'high'" :p
22:22:56  <chillcore> hehe I have been thinking about a proper explanation ... not sure if I will find one
22:23:17  <chillcore> moki seems to understand ... from what he wrote
22:23:20  <frosch123> planetmaker: actually,labeling them with single letters would give an magic map code "A123B456C789..."
22:23:26  <frosch123> setting and value pairs :p
22:23:40  <frosch123> we could store them as presets in openttd.cfg
22:23:40  <planetmaker> :)
22:24:08  <frosch123> chillcore: there is one in advanced settings
22:24:12  <frosch123> (i think)
22:24:48  <chillcore> you mean varietu distribution or perlin noise?
22:25:03  <frosch123> some of the mapgen settings are also in the adv. settings now, though the target was to have all settings in adv. settings (ust to make it easy to find any setting)
22:25:13  <frosch123> chillcore: variety dist
22:25:24  <chillcore> k. checking
22:25:55  <planetmaker> also, it's not called *advanced* settings any longer ;)
22:26:46  <frosch123> yup, i use it as an emphasis :p
22:26:55  <chillcore> indeed ... no more advanced advanced setting :P
22:27:13  <planetmaker> tehehe :)
22:27:47  <planetmaker> however good night from me now :)
22:27:58  <chillcore> good night planetmaker
22:29:22  <samu> what happens to patchs that are on bug.openttd-org?
22:29:24  <samu> typos
22:31:13  <samu> meh, i'm submiting another
22:31:29  <samu> hope you like it
22:33:52  <chillcore> "Adds variation to the map so that not all mountains are of equal height; also adds some rather flat-ish areas so you may want to keep terrain type at hilly or higher."
22:34:00  <chillcore> frosch ^^^ ??
22:34:05  <chillcore> better?
22:34:53  <frosch123> did you find the current one?
22:34:55  <chillcore> "+ when enabling this setting"
22:35:08  <chillcore> yes I did, hence my suggestion :P
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22:35:39  <chillcore> it does say what it does on the tin ... no comment there
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22:52:45  <chillcore> <planetmaker> But you better name them so people can discuss. Catchy names like Rusty Rain, Amazing Abyss, Fine Fissures... :P
22:53:13  <chillcore> I still have CommanderZ his patch i the back of my mind ... "atol" and such
22:54:30  <chillcore> but that again is something completely different for laters
22:56:23  <samu> can i have an opinion from someone?
22:56:47  <Sonny_Jim> Don't ask to ask
22:57:04  <samu> ok
22:57:19  <samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
22:57:29  <samu> look at the table to the right
22:57:50  <samu> the one with m1
22:58:15  <samu> i dunno how to report my finding
22:58:42  <samu> MakeIndustry is zeroing m1 which is incorrect
22:59:55  <samu> TileType Industry, m1, bit 4
23:00:16  <samu> bah i suck at explaining things
23:02:07  <samu> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/raw-file/53f10edbd7f1/docs/landscape_grid.html
23:02:09  <samu> there
23:02:25  <samu> class 8, m1, bit 4 says it's free to use
23:03:40  <samu> which is not entirely correct because of line 283 here http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/53f10edbd7f1/src/industry_map.h#l283
23:04:04  <samu> and my patch is attempting to fix that, my patch is this: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk5aoucx0
23:04:18  <samu> do I make sense with this explaination?
23:06:09  <samu> here's the other document, scroll down to Industry part - http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/raw-file/53f10edbd7f1/docs/landscape.html
23:06:29  <samu> m1 bit 4 isn't described for anything
23:10:37  <samu> what is the correct behaviour?
23:12:07  <samu> it's a bit that is free yes, but as a "I don't care what you are" bit
23:12:36  <samu> do you get what I'm trying to say?
23:13:14  <samu> guess not
23:15:35  <samu> I plan to make use of that bit, but if industries are setting it to 0, then it's ruining my plan
23:16:30  <samu> pfff no one answers t.t
23:17:02  <chillcore> I would not know what to answer you samu ...
23:17:25  <chillcore> also I kinda lost what you wanted to do a few days ago ... no offence
23:17:44  <chillcore> you started with rivers then canals now industries ...
23:17:54  <samu> i am now finding free bits
23:18:10  <chillcore> would help a lot if people understood what your exact goal is?
23:18:11  <samu> and discovered that bit, but after soem investigation, that bit isn't really free
23:18:23  <samu> MakeIndustry is setting it to 0
23:18:59  <chillcore> everything needs to have a value even if not used ?
23:19:01  <samu> current goal is store canal owners, but for that I must find compatible free bits
23:19:20  <samu> that one would be compatible, if it was not for MakeIndustry setting it to 0
23:19:46  <chillcore> is it used afterwards somewhere?
23:19:50  <samu> nope
23:19:59  <chillcore> note; I sux at bits magics
23:20:32  <chillcore> then remove the industrie zeroing it and asign it to what you want ... maybe?
23:21:05  <chillcore> my guess, emphasis on guess, is that when not given a value the code will complain
23:21:25  <chillcore> so zero is given just to keep the peace?
23:21:53  <samu> i am quite limited in free bits, and not sure if I need 4 or 5
23:22:30  <samu> if I am to need 5, that bit there would be the one I'd need, there's really only 5 free bits
23:22:33  <chillcore> I see 19 free bits in m1 alone ...
23:23:00  <samu> no, because they have also to be compatible with station and water
23:23:13  <samu> there's really only 5 bits
23:23:15  <chillcore> hmm ...
23:24:03  <samu> Industry is class 8 in the grid
23:24:34  <chillcore> k
23:25:26  <samu> my excel table tries to solve my puzzle
23:25:38  <chillcore> hehe
23:25:41  <samu> havent done it yet for m6
23:25:49  <samu> but i am quite sure there won't be conflicts
23:26:13  <chillcore> if I learned one thing about openttd is to be sure of nothing
23:26:19  <chillcore> proof is in the code
23:26:55  <chillcore> s proof/truth
23:27:03  <samu> station and water are using m1 to do the same thing
23:30:15  <samu> water tiles always set bit 4 to 1, because the owner is either OWNER_WATER, OWNER_SEA, OWNER_RIVER
23:30:47  <samu> wait, there's no OWNER_RIVER
23:30:49  <samu> lol
23:31:06  <samu> well, i know its 10000 or 10001
23:31:23  <samu> thar 1xxxx is what I want to retrieve
23:31:51  <samu> will be using it as a flag
23:34:06  <samu> then at m6 (assuming those free bits are indeed free), I will store company owners
23:34:32  <samu> company owners are only 4 bits, there's 15 companies
23:35:16  <samu> if the flag indicates a 0, it would mention that the canal is owned by one of the companies
23:36:19  <samu> if the flag indicates a 1, it would mention that the canal is owned by non company owners, like OWNER_NONE, OWNER_WATER, OWNER_DEITY
23:37:12  <chillcore> k
23:37:13  <samu> that's how I plan to store the owners for canals (and other waterclasses)
23:40:30  <samu> any objection?
23:41:04  <chillcore> like I said I sux at bits magic
23:41:08  <samu> :)
23:41:43  <chillcore> I'd hate to give you wrong advice ... so do a lot of people
23:41:55  <chillcore> that is why sometimes noone answers ...
23:41:57  <chillcore> ;)
23:41:59  <samu> with that bit 4, i'd be able to restore the original owners
23:42:06  <samu> the exact ones
23:44:33  <chillcore> m2 has 32 free bits in the watery parts ...
23:44:47  <chillcore> why not use those?
23:46:54  <samu> it's being used by industries, namely oil rig which is also placed on water
23:47:19  <chillcore> hmm then why are they marked as free then ...
23:47:34  <samu> it's only oil rig
23:48:21  <samu> as far as I understand, it's free for the tile type water, only if you use water
23:48:37  <samu> i am however trying to combine 3 different types
23:48:42  <samu> station, water and industry
23:48:52  <samu> to find compatibilities between them 3
23:49:11  <chillcore> hmm ...
23:50:51  <samu> m2 is also being used by ship depot
23:51:57  <samu> let me look
23:52:14  <samu> •m2: Depot index (for depots only)
23:52:18  <samu> ya, can't use that
23:52:42  <samu> doesn't mention how many of them it's using, but apparently it's all of those bits
23:53:52  <chillcore> yes it does samu ... those docs should be fairly accurate
23:54:20  <chillcore> granted it may happen (may) that someone forgts to adjust the docs
23:54:27  <chillcore> maybe once, even twice
23:54:30  <samu> when it's not a ship depot, it's a station, also for index
23:54:34  <chillcore> not 16 times
23:55:57  <samu> that means i can build 2^16 depots?
23:56:29  <samu> 65536 ship depots
23:56:31  <samu> keks
23:58:23  <samu> •m3: random bits (NewGRF) for Industry tiles
23:59:09  <samu> m3 was so tempting at first
23:59:45  <samu> but then I remembered that oil rigs can also be built on water
23:59:50  <samu> and :(

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