Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:02 <Samu> return IsWater(t) && GetWaterClass(t) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL && HasBit(_m[t].m1, 4) ? 1 : 0; 00:01:11 <Samu> ugly numers 00:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "IsWater(t) && GetWaterClass(t) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL" <-- that should be an assert 00:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause> probably 00:02:13 <glx> looks like IsCanal 00:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you should only call this function, if those are true anyway 00:02:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and "?1:0" is pointless 00:03:37 <glx> indeed the first part is IsCanal() 00:03:44 <glx> why reinvent the wheel ??? 00:03:59 <Samu> assert(IsCanal(t)); 00:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: maybe the other people didn't do the wheel the right way? 00:04:32 <Samu> return... i dunno what 00:04:46 <Samu> return HasBit(_m[t].m1, 4) ? 1 : 0; 00:04:55 <Samu> let me read 00:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> pointless parts are pointless 00:05:13 <glx> assert(IsCanal(t)); return HasBit() 00:05:34 <Samu> oh, that looks simple 00:05:37 <Samu> but im so nab 00:06:26 <Samu> return HasBit(_m[t].m1, 4); 00:08:34 *** Rusty [~oftc-webi@host81-148-222-190.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:09:05 <Samu> IsRiverUnderCanal or IsCanalOnRiver 00:09:18 <Samu> 0 means no, 1 means yes 00:09:22 <Rusty> I have downloaded the 5.0 version and now can't play multiplayer on line as there are only two green dots ? Anything I can do to get the old one back ? 00:09:41 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@140.90-149-87.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:09:57 <glx> there's no 5.0 version 00:10:19 <Rusty> It said beta 5.0 testing 00:10:29 <chillcore> you can have as many versions as you want side by side 00:10:33 <chillcore> 1.5 beta2 00:10:42 <chillcore> not 5.0 ;) 00:10:43 <Samu> which bit tells the bool thing true? 00:10:46 <Samu> 1 or 0? 00:10:56 <glx> true when set 00:11:02 <glx> it's logical 00:11:02 <Samu> when 1? 00:11:05 <glx> yes 00:11:11 <Samu> nice, then this name fits 00:11:23 <Samu> IsCanalOnRiver 00:11:32 <chillcore> openttd.org ... download zip and unpack rusty, stable version or n oghtly or both 00:11:51 <glx> client version must match server version 00:11:57 <Rusty> Sorry that's what I mean 1.5 . Well I've tried downloading 1.4.4 but it says you have a newer version and closes 00:12:03 <glx> and beta servers are rare 00:12:20 <glx> you can't use installer in this case 00:12:50 <glx> but you can unzip any older version somewhere else 00:13:00 <Rusty> I wished I hadn't downloaded it . But since then I can take part in one of two servers both have someone on it all day every day and are on hundreds if years old 00:13:21 <Rusty> Where do I go to unzip one ? 00:13:35 <glx> the other option is uninstall the beta and reinstall the older version 00:13:52 <Rusty> I thought about that one . Think I'll try that 00:14:02 <Rusty> Wanted to check it wasn't something simple 00:14:11 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@90.149.87.140] has joined #openttd 00:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "simple" 00:15:27 *** Rusty [~oftc-webi@host81-148-222-190.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd call unzipping "simple" 00:18:31 <cypher_> Oh god, it finally compiled. 00:18:38 <cypher_> That's just sexy. 00:18:45 <chillcore> how did you solve it? 00:19:16 <chillcore> maybe you could adjust the wiki if needed ... while you remember? 00:20:28 <chillcore> and Yay 00:20:29 <cypher_> Well, Msys installed its own zlib - 1.2.7-something and I installed 1.2.8 from the manual. And it did use the older version and hence the error. 00:21:30 <chillcore> what does "./configure" say it is using? 00:23:53 <chillcore> 1.2.8 ... I should learn to read properly :P 00:27:12 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:47 <chillcore> good night 00:35:52 *** chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has quit [Quit: Only mortals are affected by fame and power.] 00:36:01 <Samu> emperorjake savegame is horrid 00:36:09 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-177-242.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:36:13 <Samu> i don't know how that save is getting praise 00:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> newsflash: people have different taste! 00:38:36 <Samu> those roads make me dizzy 00:38:51 <Samu> chosing white for vehicles that go up on snow 00:39:19 <Samu> small airport with green tiles, built on snow, doesn't combine 00:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. i also noticed that. temperate grass colour in arctic is weird 00:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but that can only be fixed in NewGRF 00:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> which cannot be used on title screen 00:41:15 <Samu> i like level crossing 00:41:32 <Samu> trucks don't die there on the level crossing 00:41:42 <Samu> nicely placed signals for the trains 00:42:04 <Samu> nice to watch trains going along with that road 00:42:21 <Samu> interesting tunnel 00:43:01 <Samu> fleashosio is just... tooo burdening 00:43:10 <Samu> not my kind of thing 00:43:35 <Samu> only bad thing is that coal mine for level crossing 00:43:45 <Samu> autosloped coal mine, bah 00:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so, what's your problem? you like one, and dislike the two others? seems like an easy solution. 00:59:15 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:08 *** Netsplit graviton.oftc.net <-> charm.oftc.net quits: cypher_, tycoondemon, Vadtec, TheIJ, @Rubidium, luaduck, Born_Acorn, gnu_jj, funnel, Pulec, (+15 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 01:02:08 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 01:02:11 *** Netsplit over, joins: argoneus 01:02:11 *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@2607:5300:100:200::160d] has joined #openttd 01:02:19 *** Pulec [~pulec@5.9.123.49] has joined #openttd 01:02:19 *** urdh [urdh@1.ipv4.delta.yourbnc.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:02:22 *** Netsplit over, joins: joho, tycoondemon 01:02:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 01:02:22 *** funnel [~funnel@81.4.123.134] has joined #openttd 01:02:40 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@83.128.58.254] has joined #openttd 01:02:42 *** guru3-vps [~guru3-vps@109.200.19.187] has joined #openttd 01:02:58 *** Netsplit over, joins: smoke_fumus, luaduck, zeknurn, TinoDidriksen 01:03:06 *** Netsplit over, joins: cypher_ 01:03:15 *** Xaroth is now known as Guest671 01:03:43 *** Netsplit over, joins: tyteen4a03 01:04:20 *** Netsplit over, joins: Born_Acorn, Vadtec 01:04:55 *** Netsplit over, joins: ccfreak2k 01:05:09 *** Netsplit over, joins: theholyduck, jinks 01:06:26 *** TheIJ [~rita@188.226.187.103] has joined #openttd 01:07:20 *** Sacro [~ben@ns220925.ip-188-165-246.eu] has joined #openttd 01:15:27 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 01:18:11 <Samu> assertions again 01:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> aren't they great? 01:19:49 <Samu> bool canal = IsCanalOnRiver(tile); 01:20:02 <Samu> boom assertion 01:21:02 <glx> I guess it's the IsCanal() one 01:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> because you didn't check for IsCanal 01:23:35 <glx> and I'm sure checking for IsCanal() will trigger the IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) one in this case 01:23:46 <Samu> assert(IsCanal(t)); 01:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: an assert is not a check. an assert is there as a reminder that you should check this before 01:25:33 <glx> like being sure to check you are on a water tile with canal before calling the accessor 01:25:34 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-250-196.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:52 <glx> as the accessor is only valid for these tiles 01:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that was too much for him :p 01:29:46 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@90.149.87.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:44 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-250-196.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 01:38:12 <supermop> i dont really know anything about modern gaame engines 01:38:15 <Samu> ah i understand the assert now 01:38:35 <Samu> the tile is currently not water 01:38:44 <Samu> but it would be 01:39:24 <supermop> the guy i do freelance work for wants to make occulus rift walkthroughs of houses, but this most architectural rendering is not done in real time 01:39:32 <supermop> so i have to read up on this 01:40:16 <supermop> reminds me of back in 2005 when i would make counter strike source levels of my studio projects to explore interior spaces and lighting 01:40:26 <Samu> not yet a water tile that will become a water tile afterwards 01:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like make rendering out of design blueprints? 01:41:42 <supermop> yeah - if we make a presentation rendering 01:42:09 <supermop> its typically of a specific view, and rendered to as high of quality as time allows and project demands 01:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> realtime rendering should be no problem if you reduce texture quality/number of polygons 01:42:27 <supermop> so often done on render farms when the office is asleep 01:42:30 <supermop> yeah 01:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have no clue about that topic :p 01:42:59 <supermop> its a very different way of thinking about architectural presentation, but i am intrigued 01:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i once went to a computergraphics lecture, but the lecturer was sooooo booooring 01:44:00 <supermop> as i think as clients get younger (not younger but of younger generations) an interactive presentation would be more valuable than a static presentation of higher quality 01:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i see how that would be fun for a few minutes 01:44:29 <supermop> people younger than me are more used to interacting with a space rather than just wanting to look at a pretty picture 01:44:55 <supermop> i think it makes more sense as a design tool though 01:45:41 <supermop> i mean i can do a decent job of visualizing what it would be like to be in an imaginary space, but there are always details you'll forget about etc 01:45:58 <supermop> you could better catch stupid design features earlier 01:46:16 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:47:03 <supermop> or figure things out like "there is awful glare in this room in the afternoon" or "this thing looks ugly for this side" 01:47:52 <supermop> whereas if you are drawing presentation drawings by hand or making fancy renderings, you may subconsciously avoid showing those views that look bad 01:47:54 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 01:48:20 <Flygon> You'd be amazed how many artists do that 01:48:28 <Flygon> Then I work with them on colourization 01:48:38 <Flygon> Then I realize they've borked something up majorly 01:48:46 <Flygon> So it becomes impossible to represent when shaded 01:49:08 <supermop> with something interactive, a colleague or client could walk to a weird place and say "this area doesn't really look well thought out" 01:49:17 <Flygon> Anyway, exercise time 01:49:23 <supermop> Flygon: printing? 01:49:27 <Flygon> Nah 01:49:31 <Flygon> I'm just a colourist 01:49:45 <Samu> i can't do this 01:49:49 <Samu> const Company *c = Company::Get(this->face); 01:50:04 <Flygon> People get commissioned to draw things 01:50:18 <Flygon> Then the commissioner wants to save $$$ 01:50:29 <Flygon> So they get someone else either bored or with spare time to colourize it 01:50:36 <Flygon> http://www.flurret.net/images/art/flygon/mewplayfulbubblesfa.png Granted, I'm a pretty poor colourist 01:50:45 <Flygon> But, this sort of thing happens. I didn't draw the base artwork. :U 01:51:39 <Samu> this looked so simple, it's becoming a nightmare 01:51:48 <Flygon> Just like colourizationing 01:51:49 <Flygon> Anyway 01:51:52 <Flygon> Exercise time 01:51:53 <Samu> i'm losing track 01:51:59 <Samu> of what I have to fix 01:52:02 <Samu> :( 01:54:07 <Samu> why is it getting a face for some manager while throwing an error that I can't demolish a canal tile which I was supposed to be able to demolish... 01:54:42 <Samu> too many wrongs 01:54:44 <Eddi|zuHause> because the error message contains the manager face 01:54:50 <Eddi|zuHause> of the company that owns the area 01:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and the name of the company 01:55:34 <Samu> first, it is wrong to give me the error, that's not what's supposed to do 01:55:38 <Samu> it should remove 01:55:50 <Samu> i just plain suck at this 01:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> just always ask yourself: 1) what exactly is it doing? 2) why is it doing what it does? 3) what do i want it to do? 4) how do i take a step into that direction? 01:59:08 <Samu> 1. it is giving me an error message when i am removing a canal tile placed on scenario editor 01:59:24 <Samu> removing, in this case, demolishing it 02:00:26 <Samu> 2. it's doing that because... owner is still wrong 02:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it wrote an owner that you didn't expect it to write? 02:00:41 <Samu> 0x3f... 02:00:45 <Samu> i want 0x2f 02:00:53 <Samu> or i dunno 02:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> then maybe the check for which owner it is is wrong? 02:01:30 <Samu> owner 11111 02:01:39 <Samu> still didn't fix this? 02:01:41 <Samu> omg, why 02:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that obviously means you read more bits that you should read 02:05:58 <Samu> <Unable to read memory> Company * 02:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that is only the place where it blows up. not where you lighted the fuse. 02:06:38 <Samu> - data 0x00000000 {???} Company * * 02:06:47 <Samu> oj 02:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you have a case where GetTileOwner reads more bits than SetTileOwner wrote 02:10:50 <Samu> i give up for today 02:12:12 <Samu> i'm posting my current code, it's horrible i bet 02:12:50 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pyovlx1lk 02:21:32 <Samu> im off to bed, cyas 02:21:46 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-250-196.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:21:59 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:25:30 *** gnu_jj [~quassel@ipbcc0ba00.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 02:41:08 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:42:35 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.111.250] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is your next irc client! (www.adiirc.com)] 02:51:09 *** Sylf [~sylf@c-71-199-78-95.hsd1.ks.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:58:02 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 03:08:16 *** gnu_jj [~quassel@ipbcc0ba00.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:09:01 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:25:17 *** gnu_jj [~quassel@ipbcc18388.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 03:31:15 *** Sylf [~sylf@c-71-199-78-95.hsd1.mo.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:43:35 <supermop> its really hard to get the color of tram tracks 03:44:08 <supermop> everything to grey to brown to purplish 03:44:53 <supermop> complex because the lighting on them varies so much, rarely are you seeing the obliquely under direct sun 03:45:41 <supermop> if you are in a built up city area in late afternoon, the angle and color of incident light changes dramatically from street to street 03:46:38 <supermop> so hard for me to tell, should it be dull grey shiny from shallow angles, or brownish iron that is blue grey in certain parts... 03:47:29 <supermop> the part worn by wheel flanges always looks bright silver, but the patina on new or unworn portions seems to vary greatly 03:48:27 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71-8-126-76.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #openttd 05:12:51 *** chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd 05:15:12 <chillcore> wood morning all 05:17:07 <chillcore> wakie wakie interwebz ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwYsTrQi3w 05:17:54 <chillcore> ^^^ one of belgiums best guitar players and maybe in the world too 05:19:00 <supermop> yo 05:19:15 <chillcore> hello supermop o/ 05:20:37 <supermop> hows it going chillcore ? 05:21:25 <chillcore> fine fine thank you for asking, and you? 05:21:43 <supermop> alright 05:22:29 <supermop> had to frantically design a fake suburban home over the past couple days, now have a lull in work for another day 05:23:02 <chillcore> nice to hear. did I see you discussing tileheight with V the other day? 05:23:16 <supermop> want to get a quick a rough version of a road/track track grf out in next day or so 05:23:31 <supermop> so i need to do the slopes 05:23:37 <chillcore> 1 level is 8 pixels at zoom level 1 05:23:46 <supermop> i ended up calculating it geometrically 05:23:51 <chillcore> vehicles should not be higher than 7 05:23:54 <chillcore> ok 05:24:13 <supermop> because in a 3d program, the height is not the true hight 05:24:21 <chillcore> yeah indeed 05:24:34 <supermop> if i saw 1 px is 1m 05:24:42 <supermop> and draw an 8m tall pole, 05:25:02 <supermop> it will be less than 8px due to looking at it from an angle 05:25:18 <chillcore> true 05:25:44 <supermop> so drew some circles and triangles, and trimmed some lines between them to get the right height to use 05:26:20 <chillcore> still if you make vehicles the same height they might come peeking through the roofs of tunnel entrances and floors of bridges 05:26:42 <supermop> of course 05:26:47 <chillcore> I believe you can see this when building bridges over objects in trunk ;) 05:26:58 <chillcore> last time I checked anyway 05:27:21 <supermop> there are work arounds for that, but drawing tram tracks at wrong slope cannot be fixed 05:27:54 <supermop> for example the default tunnel use an illusion to be taller than 8 px 05:28:08 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 05:28:23 <chillcore> wrong slopes? surely you can not build them on steep slopes? 05:28:27 <supermop> was the ability to bridge objects of specific heights ever added? 05:28:35 <chillcore> yes 05:28:56 <chillcore> you can set the height of an object in newgrf 05:29:00 <supermop> no i mean, if i draw a sloped tile that is 7px tall instead of 8, it will never look ok in game 05:29:09 <chillcore> ah is see 05:29:33 <supermop> so i needed to be sure of height before i drew the slopes 05:29:40 <chillcore> 8 pixels 05:29:48 <chillcore> aat zoom 1 05:30:04 <supermop> now the issue is, it is hard to make the metal of the tracks look good 05:30:34 <chillcore> don't make it too shiny ;) 05:30:44 <supermop> in real life it changes from grey to brown to almost blue depending on the light and way you look at it 05:31:03 <chillcore> but yeah metalic objects are rather difficult to get right 05:31:21 <supermop> but because there is no perspective in game you always see a surface from exact same angle with same light 05:31:27 <supermop> so it looks flat 05:31:57 <chillcore> ah like that 05:32:07 <supermop> but if you add some extra fake shiny, you get the problem that overhead wires have 05:32:22 <supermop> the shine repeats regularly every tile 05:32:29 <chillcore> I always seem to forget trams are there 05:32:41 <supermop> yeah? 05:32:53 <chillcore> because there is no default set for them, unless that has changed too 05:33:11 <supermop> never will be default trams unfortunately 05:33:24 <supermop> im working on a tram set 05:33:36 <chillcore> ye ... but never say never :P 05:33:37 <supermop> but now i need better tracks for them to run on 05:35:01 <chillcore> hehe, what are you using for 3d prog? just curious 05:35:18 <Flygon> Why did I read that as 3D Prog Rock 05:35:28 <supermop> rhinoceros 4 05:35:38 <supermop> cannot afford to upgrade to 5 05:35:52 <chillcore> music that is at level 15 playing flygon? 05:35:54 <Flygon> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Dj_M0AHHGIo/UHEo-dryt0I/AAAAAAAAG4o/2B0qe9X35FA/s1600/b.jpg Also relevant 05:36:30 <chillcore> or rather *playing at level 15 05:36:37 <Flygon> chillcore: Dunno! 05:36:38 <Flygon> I mean 05:36:41 <Flygon> I might stream later 05:36:45 <Flygon> But it might be a different OST 05:36:51 <Flygon> So probably not Plok 05:37:38 <Flygon> Probably Journey to Silius 05:37:49 <chillcore> hehe nice warning on tram 05:38:29 <Supercheese> So many dumb ways to die 05:38:40 <Flygon> http://www.speakingaustralian.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/rhino-tram.png Full sized Tram 05:39:12 <chillcore> ye I see that a lot, peeps passing i front of tram thinking it will stop on a dime like busses do 05:39:46 <Flygon> Wait, I'm confused 05:39:52 <Flygon> What nationality are you? O_o 05:39:57 <Flygon> Your IP is like, secretive 05:40:02 <Flygon> And I doubt you're British 05:40:07 <Flygon> The British don't know what a Tram is 05:40:16 <Flygon> They think they're just buses with different wheels 05:40:21 <Flygon> Unless they live in Blackpool... 05:40:26 <chillcore> belgian ... yeah I noticed that too since yeterday ... IP 05:40:29 <Flygon> In which case they think Trams are actually Landboats 05:40:33 <chillcore> it showed a few days back 05:40:37 <chillcore> me likes 05:40:49 <Flygon> Belgian, alright 05:40:52 <Flygon> Explains a lot :3 05:41:37 <chillcore> file not found ... 05:42:04 <chillcore> most likely my browser being locked down good :) 05:42:49 <Flygon> Damn x.x 05:43:08 <chillcore> typing it manually on ipad ... 05:43:21 <chillcore> not locked down so much 05:43:48 <chillcore> read: browser on pc forces https 05:46:05 <chillcore> hmm blank page ... maybe I need to allow pics hehe 05:48:46 <chillcore> ye that was it ... needed to re-enable them and reboot pad 05:49:02 <chillcore> cool tram 05:53:11 <chillcore> whish they had warning like that here too ... but advertising wifi on the tram seems more important 05:54:56 <chillcore> talking of public transport ... our gov in all its wiseness has decided on an index freeze for incomes 05:55:19 <chillcore> while the price for a single trip went up 50% 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67C97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD587A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:56:30 <chillcore> we were doing better during that record breaking period without government :P 05:56:41 <chillcore> we the people I mean 05:56:44 <chillcore> lol 05:56:45 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 05:57:24 <chillcore> anyhoo ... 05:59:32 <Flygon> chillcore: Still bet the jobs market is better than Australia :P 06:00:42 <supermop> hmm rails just end up blue trying to make them reflective 06:01:16 <supermop> which i guess is fine, but looks weird in a game where you never see the sky 06:01:32 <chillcore> <supermop> rhinoceros 4 cannot afford to upgrade to 5 <- try unity? it is free till you make 10k with your project? 06:01:57 <chillcore> flygon: I do not know about that, unemplayment rate is pretty high here 06:02:09 <chillcore> like everywhere I gues 06:02:25 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 06:02:29 <chillcore> supermop: make sky darker? 06:02:31 <Flygon> 6%? 06:03:05 <supermop> Flygon: 6% would be considered very low in many countries 06:03:10 <chillcore> it is higher here I believe, I honestly have no clue on exact figures 06:03:10 <Flygon> Oh 06:03:12 <Flygon> Well 06:03:23 <Flygon> It's still impossible to get a job here >_> 06:03:39 <supermop> in spain it is close to 30% for young peoplw 06:04:53 <chillcore> 6.8 of total pop, 13.5% of peeps that should be working 06:05:03 <chillcore> depends how you count really 06:05:22 <V453000> i.imgur.com/k9Oq5.gif hate this already 06:05:33 <V453000> asdf and it doesnt come up as a link 06:05:42 <supermop> V453000: iron is a pain 06:05:52 <chillcore> hmm no wait that is dutchland 06:05:53 <supermop> what color is iron 06:05:59 <V453000> wat 06:06:01 <supermop> grey isn't a real color 06:06:10 <V453000> you mean a texture? 06:06:15 <chillcore> 7.3% for belgium 06:06:37 <supermop> by that i mean, put a not rusty piece of iron outside and you think "it looks dark grey" 06:06:51 <supermop> put it inside and you think "it looks dark grey" 06:07:00 <V453000> something like that I guess, reflective I would assume 06:07:06 <supermop> but outside it is blue and inside it is yellow 06:07:08 <chillcore> iron is brown-ish with spots of shiny on the inside of bends and on top 06:07:28 <supermop> because that is what it is reflecting 06:07:31 <V453000> buuuut eh, the surface usually is brushed / rusty / scratched / ... 06:07:38 <supermop> but we correct for that 06:07:55 <V453000> yeah joys of reflective shit 06:08:21 <supermop> what im saying is, something reflective metal in game - even brushed - is going to be essentially the color of its environment 06:08:41 <supermop> looks normal with your eyes ouutside, but as a sprite it looks weird 06:08:46 <supermop> just too blue 06:09:27 <V453000> yes :) 06:09:38 <V453000> especially with orthographic projection it is just weird 06:09:49 <supermop> idk when i see chrome trim on a car i never think, that metal is blue on top and asphalt colored on bottom - i think it's silver 06:09:52 <V453000> just dont make it reflect that much :) 06:09:58 <supermop> but silver is not a color 06:10:00 <supermop> yeah 06:10:01 <V453000> sure 06:10:19 <V453000> atm I have a very reflective material for steel-ish 06:10:32 <V453000> no fancy shit, no maps, 154/255 reflectivity 06:10:33 <supermop> these rails look too boring as grey-brown 06:10:36 <V453000> no fresnel reflections 06:10:43 <V453000> give them a texture :) 06:10:47 <V453000> textures for everything 06:10:49 <chillcore> ^^^ 06:10:58 <V453000> it doesnt need to make sense, it needs to look fancy 06:11:07 <supermop> but because most of what you see on tram tracks is only the top flat surface you only get one color 06:11:10 <supermop> yeah 06:11:22 <V453000> yes sure 06:11:27 <V453000> reflection maps also exist :P 06:12:47 <supermop> right now ive got bronze color that fades to rflective grey at shallow angles, with slight hammered bump 06:12:52 <V453000> my current reflective shit https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/DOOM/doom03.png 06:13:10 <V453000> eh details :P 06:13:26 <supermop> pondering filleting all edges so the curvature is reflective an tops are dull 06:13:42 <V453000> yeah, chamfers and fillets add a nice touch 06:14:01 <supermop> chrome pipes are reflective? 06:14:10 <V453000> idk, for now they are XD 06:14:12 <V453000> yes 06:14:15 <supermop> looks good as accent on a drab vehicle 06:14:32 <supermop> chrome stripes on the road looks odd 06:14:47 <chillcore> that chrome on that little pipe looks very good V 06:15:13 <chillcore> too shiny for rails though 06:15:21 <V453000> it is a very simple material, nothing complex 06:15:22 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/DOOM/doom04.png 06:15:29 <V453000> yeah on tracks it wont look good 06:15:56 <supermop> hells yes chrome the whole damn train 06:16:23 <chillcore> haha 06:16:27 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/A_0027.png 06:16:29 <supermop> there is a color shifting metallic carpaint as example material in flamingo 06:16:30 <V453000> my rails 06:16:40 <V453000> bottom rusty, top reflective 06:16:48 <supermop> i want to make trams available in that as secret livery 06:17:20 <V453000> texture is basically this http://cgtextures.com/texview.php?id=29782&PHPSESSID=hfi98300sfvq9ce72methr3fa0 06:17:22 <V453000> XD 06:17:26 <V453000> secret livery 06:17:34 <chillcore> that may be a nice easter egg 06:17:56 <V453000> I dont like single-no-texture-material things because it means you have to make the model very detailed to make it interesting 06:18:08 <V453000> the textures sell a lot 06:18:41 <chillcore> that and lighting ye 06:19:04 <V453000> eh idk, lighting is important but in case of openttd I prefer to keep one sun 06:19:07 <V453000> and thats it 06:19:22 <V453000> proper unwrapped texture just makes it look real 06:19:47 <chillcore> usually less is more ... and depends what you are doing really 06:22:24 <V453000> well some 3-point lighting etc is nice stuff, but yeah ... also, more interesting lighting means your scene has to stay at that point if you want to render various things 06:22:32 <V453000> for example RAWR scene is gigantic all over the place 06:24:44 <chillcore> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44019&start=567 06:24:54 <chillcore> most of the detail comes from the textures 06:25:14 <V453000> XD 06:25:15 <V453000> yes 06:25:27 <chillcore> the body is "just" three boxes 06:25:30 <V453000> what the actual fuck though XD 06:25:52 <chillcore> could not sleep one night ... :P 06:26:13 <chillcore> it is a modified creeper lol 06:26:18 <V453000> XD 06:26:23 <chillcore> except it does not go boom 06:26:56 <V453000> I was more talking about realistic textures https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/SuspendedWIP3.png vs https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/SuspendedWIP.png 06:27:29 <V453000> with this. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/SuspendedWIP2.png 06:27:55 <chillcore> that looks nice too 06:28:50 <chillcore> rails are almost spot on, them could use a little noise really 06:30:05 *** WhiteHand [~lachlan@14-200-248-59.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:30:36 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@140.90-149-87.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 06:53:19 <supermop> hard to get much texture to show up on a rail though 06:53:19 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:01:41 <V453000> yeah if you got them dived into concrete as tram tracks 07:01:47 <V453000> buuut still, can make some difference 07:02:00 <V453000> Àdd it as a reflection map at some low effect perhaps 07:02:03 <V453000> for more variety 07:04:04 <chillcore> you've got wally (or similar) to create tiled textures supermop? 07:05:01 <supermop> im using a hammered metal bumpmap to alter reflectivity 07:05:04 <supermop> whats wally? 07:05:39 <chillcore> j you do not ... it was very pouplar to make nice looking HL1 and quake textures 07:05:42 <V453000> photoshop eazy chillcore :P 07:06:20 <chillcore> I don't have photoshop ... way too expensive for my hobbying stuffs 07:06:34 <chillcore> and I do not model as much as I used too 07:07:08 <chillcore> ^^^ not that I was very good at it but I liked messing about a lot 07:11:12 <chillcore> @calc 281 * 20 07:11:12 <DorpsGek> chillcore: 5620 07:13:01 <chillcore> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14549&start=5608 07:13:27 <chillcore> not sure if the link is dead or not supermop 07:17:16 <supermop> ah nice 07:17:34 <supermop> maybe i should add sand in the bottom of the tram tracks 07:17:52 <supermop> i need to work on my concrete textures 07:18:55 <supermop> beer time 07:20:54 <chillcore> santé 07:44:26 <chillcore> woot found another bugsie ... 07:45:09 <chillcore> any noise parameters should ever be 0 ... or map becomes pancake 07:47:03 <chillcore> maybe some day I will be able to explain too :P 07:54:51 <V453000> XD 07:55:07 <V453000> browsing through the 32bpp thread I get a bit sad 07:55:15 <V453000> 1. so much stuff lost 07:55:33 <V453000> 2. zephyris actually had nice models, in contrast to what zbase is 07:55:42 <supermop> scales were all over the place then 07:55:59 <WhiteHand> 3. it's not 8bpp 07:56:08 *** WhiteHand is now known as BobDendry 07:56:09 <supermop> also i understand zbase as different that zeph's 32bpp stuff 07:56:11 <BobDendry> I kid ofcourse. 07:56:56 <supermop> zbase is a coherent style, not intended to be at all photo-realistic, ad intended to produce a uniform 32b base set expediently 07:57:14 <chillcore> lost is relative ...it needs someone coding the licensed sprites 07:57:30 <chillcore> there is a repo on coop? 07:57:34 <supermop> i think the way zbase turned out was certainly intentional 07:58:27 <V453000> intentional, sure, but graphically horrible 07:59:28 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:00:03 <chillcore> sure IIRC zephyris requested no help modelling untilll he got things complete? at least when he started 08:00:15 <chillcore> not sure what his stance is now 08:01:31 <supermop> he was working on a different base set 08:01:57 <chillcore> ah ok ... I have been gone for a while so I am kinda out of the loop 08:04:03 <V453000> there isnt really much to miss 08:04:16 <V453000> got stuff done as version 1, end of work 08:04:22 <V453000> of course not exactly that, but kind of 08:04:56 <chillcore> I tried importing one of his trains in Unity last year (messing about to see what the unity fuzz was about) but it is not one file one model so that did not turn out very well 08:05:21 <V453000> xd 08:06:07 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-4d04df9b.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #openttd 08:07:42 <chillcore> at least I know that unity imports blender models just fine, even if there were no textures ;) 08:10:20 <chillcore> I guess zbase is made using some script, did not dive into it much as one can only do so much 08:11:52 <juzza1> in the case of large blender projects, assets are usually linked across multiple files 08:13:04 <juzza1> but yeah i think there's a lot of other magic too in zbase rendering 08:14:11 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-4d04df9b.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:21:44 <chillcore> ye this one model had like 4 trains in it, when loaded in unity they were all 4 in the same spot while in blender they were not 08:22:11 <chillcore> no much experience with blender ... 08:22:29 <chillcore> nor with unity for that matter 08:24:56 <chillcore> hmm maybe I will not need a second array afterall for small maps ... yay 08:25:12 <chillcore> testing more seeds to test ... 08:25:16 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd 08:28:08 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:31:48 <chillcore> yep ... suspicion confirmed ... just need to exclude zero form the params now and force it to being 1 if entered manually 08:34:47 <chillcore> might still need a seprate array to hold values but I do not need to only use six params for small maps, much easier to maintain afterwards 08:35:37 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker 08:53:47 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 09:11:09 *** Dennis_ [~Dennis@095-097-036-194.static.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> my current reflective shit https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/DOOM/doom03.png <-- that engine needs a leading and trailing axle 10:33:56 *** openbu [~openbu@182.245.58.156] has joined #openttd 10:34:36 <supermop> can i provide tramway and road already composited together? 10:34:56 <supermop> and likewise tram by itself 10:35:08 <chillcore> int32 ForceOneIfZero(int32 x) { <- this is obvious what it does or it needs documentation? 10:35:46 <chillcore> you should not supermop ... you can build tramways on tiles without road ;) 10:35:57 <chillcore> you could but ... 10:36:17 <blathijs> chillcore: Force one what? 10:36:37 <blathijs> chillcore: Does it do if (x == 0) return 1; else return x; ? 10:36:40 <supermop> i know, but can i have a separate tile for combines, so tram on road looks different than tram by itself 10:37:47 <chillcore> yes blathijs, perlin noise params are int32 at the moment but entering any param (of 9) as zero will result in a flat map 10:38:43 <chillcore> except I do ... if (x == 0) x = 1; return x; 10:39:07 <chillcore> will change it to what you wrote if prefered 10:39:11 <juzza1> is ?: ternary not enough for that? 10:40:48 <chillcore> yeah except that in my case the if else is skipped if not 0 so it should be faster?µ 10:41:13 <chillcore> not sure ... 10:41:13 <blathijs> chillcore: Doesn't really matter, it all looks the same after compiler optimizations probably 10:41:20 <chillcore> true 10:45:41 <chillcore> I could move it out of the window class and make it a global function, if there is a use for it. for now it resides just above OnQueryTextFinished where it is used 10:46:03 <chillcore> and it is documented on first call too 10:47:05 <juzza1> supermop: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/sprites/png/infrastructure/infra06.png would indicate that it's possible 10:47:20 <juzza1> from sprite 1327 10:48:08 <juzza1> or rather, you _have_ to provide two sets of sprites 10:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <supermop> can i provide tramway and road already composited together? <-- might make difficulties on road crossings when not all road bits are covered by tram, or level crossings 10:54:14 <juzza1> right, the other set of sprites is only meant for compositing over roads 10:56:23 <supermop> i thought there were no tram only level crossings 10:56:46 <supermop> it always creates a road tile if you try to build level crossing with tram 10:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i mean graphically 10:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the level crossing is drawn by first drawing the road, then the rail, then the tram 10:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: so you end up drawing the road over the rails, making the rails invisible 10:58:15 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 10:58:33 <supermop> i can provide tram alone easily, was jus hoping for a cleaver work around to let me tram other tram related stuff on the road part 11:02:20 <chillcore> you can do that without providing road bits? 11:02:45 <supermop> i dont know 11:03:24 <chillcore> that way if someone chooses another road set your extras are still there and the actual used road set remains uniform in style 11:04:12 <chillcore> do your extras on a transparant layer just like the actual tramtracks? 11:04:39 <chillcore> not sure if you can detect if track is being built on road or not ... depends that really? 11:05:50 <supermop> if tram is built on its own through a city, do the sidewalks on it come from the tramway grf, the road grf, or the baseset? 11:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose from the tram grf 11:06:56 <juzza1> it comes from the set defines the road graphics 11:10:18 <juzza1> "tram grf" or "road grf" could override any baseset graphics, but if you assume only "road grf" provides road graphics, then the road grf would define the sidewalks 11:13:10 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK 11:27:08 <supermop> cant get these rounded corners to look good 11:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that's because of the pixels 11:34:38 <supermop> i imagine it may be better to just roughly model cobblestones going around a radius than trying to map this image i took to a quarter circle 12:02:06 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker 12:02:50 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK 12:28:20 <planetmaker> <supermop> can i provide tramway and road already composited together? <-- no, not really. Tram tracks are separate and always an overlay 12:28:24 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-5d823c51.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:31:50 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest746 12:31:55 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:36:21 *** Guest746 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:30 *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:43:46 *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 12:45:14 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 12:45:17 <chillcore> bbl o/ 12:45:21 *** chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has quit [Quit: Only mortals are affected by fame and power.] 13:01:06 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker 13:07:36 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-177-242.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:10:50 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK 13:25:21 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:30:48 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 13:37:51 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:38:48 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-4d04df9b.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #openttd 14:01:39 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.111.250] has joined #openttd 14:07:08 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 14:26:25 *** Maarten1 is now known as Maarten 14:37:51 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker 14:46:14 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-154-213.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 14:46:28 <Samu> hi 14:56:29 *** Tvel [~Tvel@212.36.5.170] has joined #openttd 15:12:03 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 15:12:47 <Samu> my afterload is wrong isn't it? 15:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:12:56 <Samu> I'm reverting this 15:13:37 <planetmaker> fixing might be more appropriate 15:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> all you need is a "for all tiles [ getoldowner; setnewowner; }" 15:14:08 <Samu> better revert first 15:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly a "fixremainingbit" 15:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but there are more things wrong with your patch 15:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> in setowner you write more bits than you are allowed to 15:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and you don't assert on "owner is not 0-14 or NONE" 15:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> which is the whole basis of your "we assume that we can write this in 4 bits" ploy 15:15:39 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 15:20:14 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 15:25:29 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 15:27:37 <Samu> ChangeTileOwner? 15:29:07 <Samu> reverted Afterload to trunk version, then patched the industry bit thing 15:29:31 <Samu> if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(195)) { 15:29:39 <Samu> for (TileIndex t = 0; t < map_size; t++) { 15:30:00 <Samu> and now... I'm a bit lost what to write 15:30:07 <Samu> get the old owner, how? 15:32:09 <Samu> get the old owner which uses 5 bits 15:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you know how. 15:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> because you already wrote it down 15:32:24 <Samu> set new owner to use 4 bits, and... something is amiss 15:37:41 *** shirish [~quassel@59.94.124.7] has joined #openttd 15:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i told you several things that might be amiss 15:39:39 <Samu> if ((IsTileType(t, MP_STATION) || IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) || IsTileType(t, MP_OBJECT)) && GetWaterClass(t) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL) { 15:40:05 <Samu> Owner old = something 5 bits 15:40:14 <Samu> set owner new = something 4 bits? 15:40:22 <Samu> damn, i hope this is what you mean 15:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you already have functions for both of these jobs 15:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> use them 15:42:56 <Samu> how come, I don't 15:43:25 <Samu> i can't put GetWaterClass at tile_map.h 15:43:36 <Samu> but i can in afterload 15:44:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but why would you? 15:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> anything related with water, you should put in water_map.h 15:45:07 <Samu> tile_map.h function is incomplete 15:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> then make a SetWaterTileOwner, and find all places that use SetTileOwner to check for water first 15:46:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but that has nothing to do with converting old savegames 15:50:07 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-5d823c51.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Yo.] 15:52:19 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK 15:53:33 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-4d04df9b.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:56:30 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.101.73] has joined #openttd 16:04:05 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:06:07 <Samu> didn't work 16:08:15 <Samu> error: expected a declaration 16:10:18 <Samu> map_size is undefined 16:10:24 <Samu> I don't know what to do 16:11:17 <Samu> why is it so hard to do somethnig so easy 16:12:18 *** Tvel [~Tvel@212.36.5.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:31 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd 16:20:34 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-154-213.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:13 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-154-213.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 16:21:49 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p2cylboxi 16:23:40 *** lobster [~mccrabbym@94.231.249.233] has quit [Quit: IMMAH QUIT MA LAZ-] 16:25:13 <Samu> how did I do it before? I don't understand, I just don't 16:25:52 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [SeaMonkey 2.32.1/20150207155745]] 16:25:59 <Samu> so depressed 16:27:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18D55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:29:18 <Leander_> dude 16:29:33 <Leander_> are you sure you are assigning the values in your if ? 16:30:04 <Leander_> I'm pretty sure you meant == instead of = 16:30:56 <Samu> fixing it 16:31:47 <Samu> where am I supposed to put this piece 16:32:12 <Samu> when i put it before the first GetTileOwner 16:32:29 <Samu> doesn't even compile 16:33:49 <Samu> at line 425 -> error, expected a declaration 16:34:30 <Samu> at line 433 -> error, identifier 'map_size' is undefined 16:37:08 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 16:37:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:37:27 *** Dennis_ [~Dennis@095-097-036-194.static.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:01 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-154-213.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:45:26 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-154-213.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 16:46:07 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97BA869.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 16:53:03 <Samu> sorry, i can't do it 16:53:10 <Samu> stuck 16:54:51 <Samu> can't even boot now 16:55:01 <Samu> compile 16:57:55 <Terkhen> hello 16:58:02 <Alberth> hello Terkhen 17:02:47 <LordAro> afternoon 17:03:59 <Samu> hi :( 17:05:19 <planetmaker> o/ 17:06:13 <LordAro> Samu: suggestion: read the errors more carefully 17:06:35 <LordAro> well, the first error message 17:07:04 <Samu> too many errors to count 17:07:35 <LordAro> the first error message on your screen 17:07:37 <Alberth> you have more than one first error?? 17:08:41 <Samu> if i place the part at line 3000 17:08:53 <Samu> it can actually compile 17:09:10 <planetmaker> hihi, Alberth :) 17:09:33 <planetmaker> beware of time-space configurations with loops. Difficult to define time then, and thus first ;) 17:09:49 <LordAro> "it compiles, ship it!" 17:10:03 <planetmaker> LordAro: I tried that with NML :P 17:10:05 <Samu> Assertion failed 17:10:12 <Samu> same as yesterday 17:10:18 <planetmaker> package maintainers complain(ed) :P 17:10:19 <Samu> so i know this is not the place to put 17:10:22 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:10:30 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:10:37 <Samu> have to place it somewhere else 17:11:02 <Alberth> I tried packaging a python package too this week, it failed quite hard 17:11:02 <Samu> pool.type hpp line 113 17:11:24 <LordAro> Samu: without seeing your code, or the exact error message, we cant help much 17:11:39 <Samu> oh, it's horrible 17:11:52 <Samu> ok, copy paste 17:12:08 <LordAro> paste the i 17:12:21 <LordAro> output of the diff 17:12:33 <LordAro> svn/git/whatever command 17:13:36 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkqeoprwa 17:14:43 <Samu> the error is too many to count 17:14:48 <planetmaker> did you eventuelly succeed, Alberth ? 17:15:08 <Samu> i have GetTileOwner incomplete 17:15:16 <Samu> at tile_map 17:15:33 <Samu> wanted to GetWaterClass, but it doesn't work inside tile_map 17:15:40 <Alberth> planetmaker: well, manually populating a directory, and 'tar czvf' always works :p 17:15:45 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:16:11 <Samu> if the GetTileOwner function is incomplete, how can I work on the Afterload 17:16:16 <Samu> i dont get this 17:16:36 <planetmaker> :) 17:17:45 <Alberth> at some point, I may try it again, but for 3 people, it's just tmwftlb 17:17:57 <planetmaker> hehe, yeah, likely 17:18:07 <Alberth> python packaging is quite messy at the moment 17:18:11 <planetmaker> you can try with NML. There's three package maintainers currently sad about it :P 17:18:50 <Alberth> yeah :( 17:18:57 <planetmaker> i(t) must have broken it somewhen during the py2to3 conversion 17:19:41 <Alberth> I had problems with quite elementary stuff, ie adding non-python files to the package just fails 17:19:55 <Alberth> no reason why is given 17:19:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18D55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:07 <planetmaker> for that, you might look indeed at nml. That part seems to work 17:20:07 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 17:21:10 <planetmaker> they all need to be mentioned in the MANIFEST.in 17:21:45 <planetmaker> and possibly like: ext_modules = [Extension("nml_lz77", ["nml/_lz77.c"])], 17:21:45 <Alberth> hmm, maybe that's it, the documentation seems to claim it's not needed 17:22:16 <planetmaker> and/or entry_points 17:22:23 <Alberth> in the past, simple distutils did work 17:22:36 <planetmaker> but nml's setup.py is also more a try&error setup.py than anything else :P 17:23:08 <planetmaker> hack, read, try, cry, read, hack, try, cry, read, hack, heureka! Or something like that was the process 17:23:37 <Alberth> yeah, while not working: try random improvement 17:23:48 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.101.73] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 17:24:12 <Samu> i'm in a similar situation 17:24:13 <planetmaker> well... let's say: semi-random, inspired by python wiki and stackoverflow and similar 17:24:32 <Samu> the more i look, the less i know 17:24:56 <planetmaker> that actually was different when I tackled setup.py ;) 17:25:00 <Alberth> Samu: that's where you start studying the things you use 17:25:02 <planetmaker> I thought I started to get it :P 17:25:11 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.101.73] has joined #openttd 17:25:27 <Alberth> probably you did, so they had to change it again :p 17:25:33 <planetmaker> :D 17:25:54 <planetmaker> nah, I didn't properly test the source bundles. I made sure it built properly, though from setup.py 17:26:27 <planetmaker> it just looked alright and I assumed it was alright :P 17:26:36 <planetmaker> It shows that assuming != knowing ;) 17:27:16 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker 17:31:26 <Samu> How did I do it before? 17:31:33 <Samu> why do you say I have it done already? 17:31:45 <Samu> I don't understand what you mean with that... 17:32:14 <Samu> I haven't done anything that works 17:32:19 <Samu> and you say I have it done 17:34:16 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:34:47 <Samu> what's done isnt' working exactly as I expect 17:36:36 <Samu> this part here https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkqeoprwa#line-93 17:36:39 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK 17:36:46 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker 17:36:48 <Samu> is a failure 17:37:00 <LordAro> :c 17:37:35 <LordAro> i think youve just "thrown yourself in at the deep end" a bit 17:37:44 <Samu> GetTileOwnerOld is the real GetTileOwner 17:37:59 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK 17:38:01 <Samu> my version of GetTileOwner SUCKS 17:38:06 <LordAro> you need to learn more about C(++) first 17:38:08 <Samu> it's not complete 17:38:23 <LordAro> then youll be able to work out where you're going wrong better 17:41:19 <Samu> I can't change GetTileOwner, it's used almost everywhere by the game 17:41:58 <Samu> but if I don't change it, I can't implement what I want to do 17:42:37 <LordAro> you could modify it inplace 17:42:46 <LordAro> that is allowed... 17:42:54 <Alberth> of course you can change it, but you have to be careful not to break it 17:45:50 <LordAro> well, that goes without saying :p 17:46:20 <Samu> and I was thinking m6 would be the hardest part to do 17:46:28 <Samu> turns out m1 is becoming a nightmare 17:47:19 <Alberth> that's normal, there are always nice unexpected things that you also have to do, and usually the nice things are way more difficult than the first steps 17:49:19 <LordAro> so much this ^ 17:49:41 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:50 <LordAro> "yay, ive finished this rewrite, the program should be so much faster now" 17:51:15 <LordAro> "what do you mean it's 3 times slower?" 17:52:02 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:52:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:52:34 <planetmaker> hehe, LordAro :) 17:53:14 <planetmaker> from that POV we should possibly still have nml in py2 (from what I think I know). But from a look of what we can do with py3... no :) and it's faster now than in py2 times 17:54:39 <Samu> old version of water, station, object: m1 = x 01 10000 17:55:01 <Samu> new version of water, station, object: m1 = x 01 ? 1111 17:55:37 <Samu> new version of water, station, object: m6 = 11 xxxx 11 17:55:39 <planetmaker> Samu, it really is not helping that you keep writing here a stream of thought-trails... 17:56:41 <planetmaker> for one, focus on what you do. Read on how things work, think it through. And if that does not help, ask concise questions. Otherwise there's no way *anyone* can help you 17:57:30 <planetmaker> with your eternal stream of musings and what-not, no-one can follow what you do, what is your current state, what is the current problem. And that includes you yourself 17:58:01 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 18:00:40 <planetmaker> people are happy to help usually, that includes myself. But it's extremely difficult to filter through a stream of trivia the real questions. It's exhausting on everyone 18:01:05 <V453000> +1 18:01:16 <Samu> objective is the same as of a week ago 18:05:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:05:08 <andythenorth> o/ 18:05:32 <planetmaker> o/ 18:05:37 <V453000> o/ 18:06:03 <V453000> so what form of wtf are you working on andythenorth 18:10:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth, not sure I told you. However might be good for some of your py3 projects: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml/repository/revisions/6e86c18c25b9/diff/findversion.sh 18:10:21 <planetmaker> removes an explicit py2 dependency 18:10:21 <Samu> convert owners from 5 bits to 4 bits, to free up a bit 18:10:46 <Samu> convert that free bit to have meaning 18:11:44 <Samu> only convert when waterclass is canal, else don't do anything 18:12:12 <glx> hmm how can you store 16 companies and special owners in 4 bits ?? 18:12:13 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:12:25 <planetmaker> glx, we only have 15 18:12:42 <Samu> there's owner none for canal 18:12:46 <Samu> 16 18:12:52 <andythenorth> planetmaker: eh yes that would be useful 18:12:56 <glx> ha right 0xF is not a company 18:12:57 <andythenorth> then python 2 is gone 18:13:06 <andythenorth> V453000: I am wtf-ing nothing today 18:13:10 <andythenorth> brain elsewhere 18:13:18 <andythenorth> I had a nice game going, but I got bored 18:14:15 <andythenorth> Alberth made a new Busy Bee which fixes the bugs in mine 18:14:23 <andythenorth> but GS canât be swapped on a game :P 18:15:00 <planetmaker> he... but you don't use findversion.sh it seems :D 18:15:24 <andythenorth> I donât? 18:15:37 <andythenorth> iirc some makefiles blow up if I remove PYTHONPATH or such 18:15:44 <planetmaker> seems not. Probably older Makefiles with that one explicitly in the Makefile 18:15:44 <andythenorth> didnât test today though 18:20:37 <Alberth> andythenorth: tried just copying the .nut files? 18:21:00 <Alberth> (be sure to make a backup copy) 18:21:55 <planetmaker> he... VMWare is being sued for GPL violation... using kernel code without publishing code it seems 18:22:15 <andythenorth> Alberth: last time I tried it, OpenTTD just disabled the GS 18:22:28 <andythenorth> didnât try again :D 18:22:38 <andythenorth> if the data structures have evolved, itâs probably a bad idea 18:23:10 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:23:21 <Alberth> andythenorth: oh, some fields in info.nut are likely critical 18:23:56 <Alberth> load/save data has not changed 18:24:22 <Alberth> so you should be able to load an old savegame into the new BB 18:24:37 <planetmaker> if they lose the case, they have to publish sources of ESXi... 18:26:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f7416a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:26:28 <Alberth> o/ 18:28:21 <planetmaker> p/ 18:28:50 *** chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd 18:29:07 <chillcore> hello all o/ 18:29:53 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@191.32.188.170] has joined #openttd 18:30:08 <planetmaker> o/ 18:31:14 <frosch123> hola 18:31:25 * chillcore did a good deed and infected public pc with OpenTTD :P 18:31:41 <chillcore> hello frosch and planetmaker 18:32:22 <planetmaker> hehe :) 18:33:17 <chillcore> I have a point to prove ... I also rigged a so called protected bios to boot from USB tommorow morning :( 18:33:31 <chillcore> but I will undo that before harm is done ;) 18:34:11 <chillcore> I did notify one person ... 18:34:23 <planetmaker> evilzzz hackorrzz, you ;) 18:34:49 <chillcore> to see if that so calld security company will even notice and call them to disable pc at all ... :sadface: 18:35:09 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:35:38 <chillcore> the funny part is that that bios prog is called "gag" which means joke in french ... the irony 18:35:55 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.111.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:57 <chillcore> anyhoo 18:36:03 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 18:36:35 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker 18:42:16 <Samu> my draft 18:42:18 <Samu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72691&p=1144092#p1144092 18:42:38 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@191.32.189.12] has joined #openttd 18:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "gag" in english is either a joke, or something you put in someone's mouth so they can't speak 18:44:51 *** Ketsuban [~thomas@2.216.180.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:31 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:45:36 <chillcore> I guess they meant the latter ... it is supposed to either let you boot os or enter password to access bios 18:45:53 <chillcore> ofcourse if you press 'that' button ... sigh 18:47:01 *** Pereba [~UserNick@191.32.188.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:47:09 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 18:52:40 <Samu> my draft is misleading grrr 18:52:41 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:52:50 <chillcore> in better news ... I have two bugsies left ... some minor todos (cleanup and documentation) and then tuning 18:53:23 <chillcore> besides shortening the code and later the addons 18:54:10 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:55:13 <Alberth> nice :) 18:55:27 <chillcore> also no need no more to use only six parameters to get terrain generation for small maps working properly thanks to int32 18:56:04 <chillcore> ^^^ yiehaa for cleaner code and maintenance later on 18:57:13 <chillcore> I posted some screenshots of small maps in my topic alberth ... better? 18:59:36 <Samu> i can't do this. if my life depended on this, I would be dead 18:59:56 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:00:11 <Samu> i created a draft to better visualize my goal 19:00:12 <Samu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72691 19:00:28 <chillcore> 'good thing your life does not depend on it and you have all the time in the world ;) 19:00:29 <Alberth> looks ok-ish. I should play with a big mountain some day 19:01:16 <chillcore> cool 19:01:29 <Samu> from old behaviour to new behaviour, there has to be convertions 19:02:04 <Samu> maybe this way, it's easier to point out what i must work on 19:02:19 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK 19:04:34 <Alberth> I would start with learning c++ if I were you 19:05:37 * andythenorth tried writing a patch once 19:05:52 <andythenorth> not knowing c++ was only the second problem 19:07:30 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker 19:10:19 <peter1138> Fucking stupid truck, drove into the side of me :( 19:11:25 *** Ketsuban [~thomas@90.219.209.226] has joined #openttd 19:11:58 <chillcore> ouch ... you are fine yourself I hope? 19:13:55 <Samu> i can't learn c++ 19:15:00 <Samu> if i couldn't before, then it's not now that i could 19:16:38 <Alberth> under that assumption, you will not be able to do anything 19:17:42 <Samu> i dropped university because i failed at everything, i felt i was in the wrong department 19:18:23 <peter1138> chillcore, eh, ETS2 19:19:12 <chillcore> oO o...k 19:25:28 *** Netsplit testlink-beta.oftc.net <-> charon.oftc.net quits: Cursarion, efess, shirish, Sacro, BobDendry, lastmikoi, @DorpsGek, gnu_jj, Vadtec, roidal, (+98 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:27:20 *** Netsplit over, joins: Born_Acorn, Ketsuban, FLHerne, chillcore, frosch123, andythenorth, +glx, shirish, @Alberth, roidal (+55 more) 19:27:34 *** funnel [~funnel@81.4.123.134] has joined #openttd 19:27:40 *** Netsplit over, joins: orudge, jonty-comp, BobDendry, KenjiE20, dustinm`, blathijs, Samu, Ttech, Suicyder, Supercheese (+32 more) 19:27:41 *** funnel [~funnel@81.4.123.134] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:27:43 <andythenorth> peter1138: is it any good? I canât play it, runs like a dog 19:27:55 <andythenorth> clearly Apple hardware isnât up to it 19:31:17 <Samu> i must have been the most horrible person to ever be on this chat, i just feel that way 19:31:57 <andythenorth> nah 19:31:59 <Samu> cant get anything done right 19:32:04 <Samu> i demand too much 19:32:10 *** funnel [~funnel@81.4.123.134] has joined #openttd 19:32:13 <andythenorth> award for most persistence with least result :) 19:32:25 <andythenorth> there have been many worse, offensive, hopeless, idiots 19:32:35 <andythenorth> seriously 19:32:56 <Samu> yes, but i drag you with me 19:33:25 <andythenorth> mostly this channel is me or V453000 typing monologues 19:33:29 <Samu> sometimes I wonder why do I even try 19:33:35 <andythenorth> or Eddi|zuHause blathering about cats 19:33:52 <Alberth> or andy asking about cats :) 19:33:58 <andythenorth> I never do that 19:34:14 <Samu> i know the end resut is that I won't go anywhere without guidance 19:34:56 <chillcore> and? none of us was born a coder or graphics artist or musisian ... 19:34:58 <Alberth> it's not guidance you seek 19:35:09 <Alberth> at least, that's how it looks to me 19:36:47 <Alberth> with guidance, a hint in the right direction is sufficient, you seem to ignore what we say 19:37:07 <Samu> i dont ignore, it's just that I don't get what youmean 19:37:08 <Alberth> unless we tell you exactly what to do 19:37:21 <Samu> yes, i noticed 19:37:26 <Samu> i have to stop this 19:37:50 <andythenorth> this is approximately what happens to me when patching OpenTTD 19:37:52 <andythenorth> only faster 19:37:52 <Alberth> but that's not helping any of us 19:38:32 <Alberth> it's not helping me, as I can do it quicker by myself, and it's not helping you, as you don't learn how things work 19:38:57 <Alberth> you just learn tricks without understanding why or how 19:40:02 <Alberth> which means at the slightest change you're stuck again 19:40:17 <Alberth> I don't know how to help you 19:42:08 <ST2> imo the best help/suggestion was already made, many times. learn at least the C(++) basics 19:42:17 <ST2> that would help Samu alot :) 19:42:24 <glx> <@peter1138> Fucking stupid truck, drove into the side of me :( <-- toll booth ? 19:42:26 <ST2> hi all :) 19:42:31 <Alberth> hi hi 19:43:02 <glx> the only place where they ignore mirrors 19:43:13 * andythenorth now has ETS 2 rage 19:43:19 <andythenorth> I have bought it but canât play 19:43:23 <andythenorth> youâre all playing it 19:43:34 <Alberth> buy a new computer :p 19:43:40 <glx> even when lowering graphics ? 19:43:54 <andythenorth> yeah 19:44:26 <andythenorth> I have considered a new computer 19:44:28 <andythenorth> this one is old 19:44:33 <chillcore> you need to take it slower samu ... do something much simpler first and don't try to do 3 things at once after indeed learning the basics of coding; does not even have to be c++ 19:44:48 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C34DC.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:44:49 <chillcore> haai ST2 o/ 19:45:38 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:49:06 <Alberth> oh great, andythenorth, our first contributed patch for BB! 19:49:23 <Alberth> thanks ST2 (assuming it's you) 19:49:29 <ST2> yw :) 19:49:30 <andythenorth> :) 19:49:43 <ST2> well, when I saw your reply that simple idea came up :) 19:50:26 <Alberth> I pondered about it too, was wondering if a plain multiplier would be ok, as it grows very fast 19:50:43 <ST2> yeah, hehe 19:50:56 <Alberth> I somewhat thought about adding percentage 19:51:01 <Alberth> ie a factor / 100 19:51:03 <ST2> well, max is 20, but 7500 * 20 of Mail is insane xD 19:51:27 <Samu> I'm off to play, put this on hold 19:51:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: for our next trickâŠhe writes his own GS ;) 19:51:37 <andythenorth> more GS 19:51:41 <Samu> cyas 19:51:49 <chillcore> hehe I had a 'drive me nuts' setting in bugpack for towngrowth 19:51:58 <Alberth> I have had 6,6K mail goal, that was crazy already :) 19:52:03 <chillcore> laters samu ;) 19:52:21 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:52:26 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 19:53:59 <andythenorth> the BB game I am about to stop playing http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7194/BB_game_2.png 19:54:03 <andythenorth> nice spaghetti network 19:54:23 <andythenorth> ho hereâs the same game I posted 2 weeks ago :D http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7027/BB_game.png 19:54:28 <andythenorth> forgot I did that 19:54:45 <andythenorth> V453000 would weep 19:54:59 <andythenorth> âWHERE IS MOAR LOGICâ 19:55:43 <ST2> at least Samu gonna play Busy Bee too, to relax :) 19:57:18 <Alberth> lots of water andy :) 20:02:45 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 20:05:36 *** _dp_ [~dP@95-55-6-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:08:08 *** Oddingar [~Odd@141.0.247.63] has joined #openttd 20:08:23 <Oddingar> hello 20:08:43 <Alberth> hello 20:09:06 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:09:16 <Oddingar> I've been reading on the forum regarding several timetable patches, what is recommended per today? 20:09:33 <andythenorth> ugh 20:09:37 <andythenorth> :) 20:10:17 * andythenorth files timetables under non-understandable things 20:10:19 <andythenorth> ignore me 20:10:49 <Oddingar> meaning there's no improvements that are working properly? :P 20:12:12 <Alberth> for some value of "working", yes 20:12:54 <Alberth> but it depends on how you play the game, I guess 20:14:46 <Oddingar> I'll have to get back to you on that one, I think 20:15:23 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:15:26 *** _dp_ [~dP@178.70.76.61] has joined #openttd 20:15:33 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Timetables <-- this the wiki about it 20:17:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18D55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:18:06 <Alberth> it looks a bit out of date 20:19:03 <Alberth> you may want to keep in mind that you can 'start' a time table at a certain moment, for all vehicles with the same shared orders, by holding CTRL while starting 20:19:34 <Alberth> ie hold CTRL key when you press the 'start' button at the gui 20:19:57 <Oddingar> yeah, but you ahve to spread the vehicles or trains manually to get it working, right? 20:20:26 <Alberth> no, if you start like above, the computer sets up the starting times like that 20:20:30 <Oddingar> I was reading this thread: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=54332 20:20:48 <Oddingar> and I figure this would be really neat to evenly spread engineering/farm supplies 20:21:11 <Oddingar> on FIRS 20:21:21 <Alberth> I never figured out much how time tables work at all 20:21:43 <andythenorth> I use them for âwait 5 daysâ or such sometimes 20:21:44 <Alberth> I play with break downs enabled, so it's messy to say the least :) 20:21:53 <andythenorth> because thereâs no % load 20:22:08 <andythenorth> but everything else Iâve tried with timetables doesnât do anything useful 20:22:17 <andythenorth> I was going to say âdoesnât workâ but that implies bugs 20:22:33 <Oddingar> ah, I see :P 20:22:41 <andythenorth> I have failed to understand what they add to gameplay 20:22:58 <andythenorth> afaict they are for foamers to recreate accurate timetables of specific real-life trains 20:23:02 <Alberth> but some people use them all the time, and are happy with them 20:23:15 <andythenorth> there are many types of people in the world :P 20:23:18 <andythenorth> at least 7 20:23:26 <andythenorth> maybe even 8 20:23:31 <Oddingar> well, I see on one of my games when I hit 200 trains or so it gets a bit tricky to keep track on everything, so was hoping someone had found a solution :P 20:23:45 <andythenorth> build a fault tolerant system :) 20:23:49 <andythenorth> donât try and track things :) 20:24:35 <chillcore> they help to spread out your vehicles instead of them bunching up ... untill breakdowns or servicing happens :P 20:24:38 <Alberth> just watch trains running smooth, and stations having a waiting train 20:24:43 <andythenorth> how are they supposed to work? 20:24:56 <andythenorth> itâs non-deterministic how long a vehicle takes to complete a leg 20:25:00 <Alberth> keep an eye on the amount of cargo at stations 20:25:25 <andythenorth> and the timetable canât make the vehicle exceed the max speed for the terrain, load etc 20:25:45 <andythenorth> so the only timetable that isnât late is one that has excess slack 20:25:53 <andythenorth> so a timetable is almost always wrong 20:25:54 <Alberth> you make the time table too long, and the train will arrive early every now and then 20:26:03 <chillcore> I've even seen games where peeps have a waiting/holding stations to have trains stay overnight ... with daylenght patches that is 20:26:11 <Alberth> then it will wait until it's 'on time' again 20:26:16 <Leander_> I use time tables exactly for that: regular delivery of engineering supplies in FIRS, when the station is close, all I do is make it stall a bit after delivery 20:26:48 <andythenorth> I just add vehicles to the route until the industry is at max production 20:26:54 <andythenorth> is that more or less complex? 20:27:10 <chillcore> ye you add some time to the timetable to catch up from breakdowns/congestions/unsheduled servicing 20:27:21 <Alberth> less control over how much gets sent to the industry, I guess 20:27:38 <andythenorth> how do timetables handle upgraded vehicles? Are they recalculated? 20:28:09 <Alberth> not that I know, nor does it handle additional vehicles you buy later afaik 20:28:32 <Oddingar> Leander_: are you happy with the way it works using regular time tables? maybe I'll have to give it a go again 20:28:34 <andythenorth> how do they handle congestion on rails / runways / airbridges / roads 20:29:04 <andythenorth> if I add more trains / planes / RVs on new routes are the timetables recalculated? 20:29:05 <Alberth> you add sufficient additional time to handle such cases 20:29:10 <andythenorth> hmm 20:29:19 <andythenorth> we should rebuild the internet so packets are scheduled 20:29:40 <chillcore> right because steam users are so delighted with that feature ... 20:30:16 <Alberth> like you said, it's great if you have a fixed setup, and never change tracks, engines, or number of engines 20:30:19 <Leander_> Oddingar the thing is, I seldom use it because most of the time my trains take more than 3 months to deliver and come back, so there's no reason to stall them 20:31:19 <andythenorth> I did try scheduling ships 20:31:24 <andythenorth> to avoid them all overlapping 20:31:29 <andythenorth> but it doesnât actually work 20:31:46 <andythenorth> autofill is borked, and I cba to count how many days the routes took 20:32:10 <chillcore> but ye if you upgrade vehicles you basically have to redo that routes timetable 20:32:22 <Alberth> ships somewhat work for me, but it's a lot of manual work 20:32:53 <Alberth> but for ships it's useful as they seldom change 20:33:01 <andythenorth> % load was ruled out recently, but I forgot why 20:33:09 <andythenorth> was it determined to be boring? 20:33:11 <chillcore> it was? 20:33:18 <Alberth> :o 20:33:32 <Alberth> I have come to the conclusion it could be useful at times 20:34:10 <andythenorth> somebody mostly convinced me that it isnât wise 20:34:13 <Alberth> the real trick is that you have to dramatically change the order system, I think 20:34:37 <andythenorth> eh, but would we? o_O 20:35:07 <Alberth> for time -> infinity, we will :) 20:35:12 * andythenorth has an insane idea about vehicles routing dynamically 20:35:21 <andythenorth> and reserving cargo in advance at their next hop 20:35:44 <andythenorth> tramp steamers basically 20:35:45 <Alberth> dynamic routing would be sooo nice 20:35:52 <andythenorth> it would be bonkers 20:36:05 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramp_trade 20:36:14 <andythenorth> trucks do it too, and some freight planes 20:36:18 <andythenorth> trainsâŠ.not so much 20:36:30 <Alberth> probably get all kinds of feedback loops in the system 20:37:46 <Oddingar> aight, thanks for your reply guys :P 20:38:26 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: boom] 20:38:29 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:39:09 <Oddingar> oh yeah, Leander_, same here, therefore I got more than one train carrying engineering supplies, and theres where the issue start, sometimes two trains arrive at the same time, and I can't seem to find a usefull way to even them out 20:39:21 <Oddingar> especially when the network is a bit crowded at times 20:39:55 <Alberth> a long track without signals works quite nicely 20:40:31 <Oddingar> hehe 20:40:43 <Alberth> or a single track shared between in and outgoing trains 20:40:46 <Leander_> can you make them pause at a waypoint? 20:41:11 <Alberth> no, you have to build a passage 20:41:40 <chillcore> no but you can abuse a single tile station for that with no load/unload orders ;) 20:41:46 <Alberth> but with path signals it's easy to force them to wait until they can find a safe spot in the next block 20:42:28 <Oddingar> is there other patches recommended? 20:43:01 <Alberth> I always play trunk / nightlies :) 20:45:04 <chillcore> I always end up playing with code somehow :P 20:45:17 <Alberth> it's a much more challenging game :p 20:46:15 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:46:46 *** urdh [urdh@1.ipv4.delta.yourbnc.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:51:25 <Alberth> ST2: As for the BB patch, setting place seems fine, but perhaps make it between 50% and say 2000% ? note that "difficulty" easy/medium/hard has very little meaning, as you can take practically as long as you desire to fulfill a goal (timeout gets reset when you deliver) 20:52:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:52:31 <ST2> that's a neat idea :) 20:52:55 * andythenorth adds Busy Bee to forum sig 20:53:22 <Alberth> I'd be happy to add it 20:53:32 <ST2> well, I'll try that tomorrow, @ pub now ^^ 20:53:47 <Alberth> ok :) 20:56:29 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK 20:57:47 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-97-184.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:59:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6C059.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:00:50 <ST2> any suggestion for step_size? maybe 10 ^^ 21:01:39 <Alberth> seems fine to me 21:01:57 <Alberth> 1 would work too :) 21:02:21 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:02:23 <Alberth> you don't have a step-size, do you? just a min/max number 21:02:27 <ST2> hehe, from 50 to 2000, even 10 seems low (lots of clicks needed) 21:02:37 <Alberth> oh, right 21:02:47 <Alberth> you know the double click trick? 21:03:07 <Alberth> a window opens and you can change the number with the keyboard :) 21:03:28 <ST2> well, some players dnt know it ^^ 21:03:39 <ST2> and I change always the settings in cfg file 21:04:03 <ST2> "always the hard way" Chuck Norris 21:04:05 <ST2> xD 21:04:18 <Alberth> right, then you'd have to go from 5 to 200, with 10 == 100% 21:04:40 <ST2> got a computer here (cibercoffee) 21:04:49 <ST2> 2000% = 20 21:04:53 <ST2> logical xD 21:05:04 <ST2> 1 is 100% 21:05:16 <ST2> oh wait, damn beer :S 21:05:33 <ST2> dnt combine with math 21:05:33 <Alberth> too many zeroes :) 21:05:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6D6F2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v Alberth] by ChanServ 21:13:29 *** mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ 21:15:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:15:47 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:22:01 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:46 <andythenorth> also bedtime 21:42:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:45:53 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:52:51 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:53:06 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:54:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f7416a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:57:43 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 22:00:39 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:57 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:21 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 22:04:08 <Terkhen> good night 22:05:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18D55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:59 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 22:14:09 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:15:31 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 22:16:41 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:25:25 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:48:05 *** Oddingar [~Odd@141.0.247.63] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:36 *** Oddingar [~Odd@141.0.247.63] has joined #openttd 23:01:24 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:02:38 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-5d823c51.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:23:44 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-177-242.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:25:36 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:07 <supermop> yo 23:29:48 *** cypher_ [~cypher@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:46:41 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:46:47 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:51:02 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C34DC.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 23:53:26 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]