Log for #openttd on 2nd April 2015:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:08  <supermop> have towns favor wood, brick, or stone based on what is available
00:00:17  <supermop> at least in early modern era
00:00:38  <Supercheese> could roll with recolor palettes to work that
00:00:46  <Supercheese> I am not well versed with those though
00:00:57  <supermop> yeah 8bpp probably better for that
00:01:31  <supermop> could easily recolor the same pixels to be various brick or stone shades, or stucco
00:02:21  <supermop> hmm early firs games should have small quarries that produce bdmt as cut stone, with low production
00:02:33  <supermop> and maybe no sand or crushed stone
00:03:25  <supermop> what should i fill the arches in with? doors, windows, leave open?
00:05:14  <Supercheese> you mean the ones at the back side? are they not windows?
00:05:30  <supermop> front or back side
00:05:40  <Supercheese> oh for when it's an endpiece of a station?
00:05:45  <supermop> they would need to be the same in game
00:05:45  <Supercheese> the full area
00:06:21  <supermop> i just showed doors on half and half height arches on the other to show a few options
00:07:28  <Supercheese> Probably windows would be best
00:09:13  <supermop> i'm hoping if i get a brick arch station, a tensile roof station, and a spaceframe roof station somewhat well done, each in the spirit of the ogfx rail, monorail, and maglev stations, i can convince planetmaker to include them along with matching buffers as a possible "ogfx+ stations"
00:10:22  <supermop> so each one needs to be as simple as possible for now, so they behave essentially like the default stations, but with the option of having monorail in a brick station, or rail in a tensile roofed station, etc
00:11:03  <supermop> it could reuse the ogfx sprites for an 8bpp version with a little ork too
00:11:07  <supermop> work
00:11:30  <supermop> or put a little ork in there why not
00:12:48  <supermop> would like to add sheds for 3 or 4 tracks as well but trying to keep it simple at the moment
00:13:49  <Supercheese> well, getting this model to render nicely wasn't as difficult as I had anticipated
00:14:28  <supermop> your mooring mast?
00:15:03  <supermop> replacement for the skyscraper style heliport?
00:15:06  <Supercheese> Yes, although not mine, I downloaded a model someone else had made
00:15:47  <Supercheese> it looks nice by itself but it doesn't really fit the OTTD scale
00:16:15  <Supercheese> and the way the airships land means you have to offset the mast practically over into the next tile to line it up with the nose
00:16:23  <supermop> yeah
00:16:50  <supermop> but cant you use heliport statemachine on a 2-tile airport instead?
00:17:33  <supermop> or mess with airship offsets so their 'center' is in the nose
00:18:23  <Supercheese> well, then the airships would be weird when they landed anywhere else
00:18:36  <Supercheese> but a 2-tile option seems interesting
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00:24:17  <supermop> should be do -able
00:24:54  <supermop> even if you can't change the movement patterns, you should be able to make new airports with extra 'useless' tiles
00:28:53  <argoneus> no april fool jokes
00:28:54  <argoneus> L(
00:28:54  <argoneus> :(
00:31:23  <supermop> shit its already april?
00:32:54  <supermop> hmm stations have have multiple sprites i think
00:33:27  <supermop> so i could have the CC steel arches as their own sprite - above the brick but below the roof
00:33:39  <supermop> that would make masking way easier
00:35:23  <supermop> not sure then how best to organize this in terms of layers, groups, and blocks
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00:51:44  <supermop> now i need to design a buffer
00:53:53  <supermop> lots of shanghai/transrapid buffer shots on GIS, less so for JR maglev
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00:54:22  <supermop> also there is a ottd screenshot in the first batch of results for 'maglev buffer'
00:54:42  <supermop> paradoxically if shows neither maglev nor buffers
00:57:38  <supermop> shot of jr maglev creating vapor trails as is exits tunnel looks pretty sick
00:59:38  <Supercheese> wait, you can't switch base graphics in a running game...?
01:00:06  <Supercheese> how odd
01:02:10  <Flygon> I thought you could if you stuffed around with GRFs
01:02:17  <Flygon> Despite not technically being allowed to
01:02:18  <Flygon> <_<
01:02:19  <Flygon> >_>
01:02:30  <Flygon> Oooooh the OTTD game's I've broken then tried to fix
01:03:18  <supermop> you can change base set in main menu and re load
01:04:04  <Supercheese> seems a tad circuitous though
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01:07:13  <Supercheese> Hah, yeah you can make a 2-tile heliport
01:07:26  <Supercheese> nice
01:12:09  <Supercheese> Whoops, triggered an assert
01:12:51  <Supercheese> seems the game doesn't like non-rectangular layouts
01:13:54  <supermop> hmmm
01:14:04  <supermop> 1x2 is still a rectangle?
01:14:34  <Supercheese> That went fine, then I tried using a negative tile offset, but that for some reason was non-rectangular
01:14:42  <Supercheese> [0,0] + [1,0] was fine
01:14:49  <Supercheese> [0,0]+[-1,0] was not
01:18:07  <supermop> odd
01:18:25  <supermop> this buffer looks stupid
01:18:31  <Supercheese> Hmm, shadows
01:18:35  <supermop> and it's too chunky
01:18:39  <Supercheese> OTTD and its lack of shadows
01:21:37  <supermop> yeah
01:23:27  <Supercheese> hard to decide how to do lightning and shadows when rendering
01:23:44  <Supercheese> lighting*
01:25:44  <Supercheese> baaaaargh, the airships never want to line up with the mast
01:25:49  <Supercheese> no matter what layout I try
01:27:39  <Supercheese> Maybe I should just make a blank piece of ground
01:27:44  <Supercheese> and then place the mast as a newobject
01:27:50  <Supercheese> would probably be infinitely easier
01:28:07  <Supercheese> I was hoping for a more elegant solution though
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01:36:27  <Flygon> Supercheese: If there's one thing I've learned attempting to hack apart games
01:36:37  <Flygon> It's that nothing you try to add in ever ends up elegant
01:37:16  <Flygon> One of the guys I used to work with still takes the cake for insisting on modifying a game 100% in hex
01:37:24  <Flygon> Including writing new ASM code in hex
01:37:34  <Flygon> As if you couldn't make pointers confusing enough
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05:17:55  <supermop> i wonder why the TTD monorail is buried in a trench instead of being above grade like the TTO monorail
05:18:17  <Supercheese> Indeed, that always has bothered me
05:18:26  <supermop> the only reason would be to allow a similar platform height to regular rail,
05:18:51  <supermop> otherwise it is just needlessly expensive to dig all of that trench
05:19:19  <supermop> and then its tricky to draw sprites as you need to account for the negative space
05:19:45  <supermop> which means that you must draw a small portion of the neighboring tile's track
05:20:08  <supermop> which then makes it hard to get junctions and corners looking ok
05:20:45  <supermop> drawing the whole beam and clearance above grade would look better
05:21:05  <supermop> but i guess it causes issues with the vehicles effectively being too tall?
05:22:17  <supermop> it looks especially odd on foundations - where the effect is of builing a retaining wall, filling it with dirt, then digging some of the dirt back out
05:25:23  <supermop> try to rectify by changing the standard - and suddenly you have the added problem of two mismatched standards
05:26:18  <supermop> at least almost noone cares about default monorail
05:26:43  <supermop> newgrf wise, so I guess that affords more freedom to mess around and break the rules
05:26:56  <supermop> as far as i know there are no monorail sets out there
05:28:16  <supermop> my dilemma is, entrench the monorail as standard, or raise the platform level for monorail rail type
05:52:12  <chillcore> good morning interwebz o/
05:52:19  <chillcore>
05:53:39  <Pikka> supermop, level crossings?
05:54:48  <supermop> the ttd monorail is perhaps even worse for a level crossing than the tto one though Pikka
05:55:12  <supermop> as you car dives into a ditch before smashing into a concrete beam
05:56:05  <supermop> also i think tto forbade monorail level crossings
05:56:13  <supermop> cant recall though
05:58:15  <supermop> i recall someone proposing to amend the base set with little drawbridges at monorail crossings to bridge the trench at one point
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05:58:46  <Pikka> lunar did that :P
05:58:58  <supermop> yeah?
05:59:41  <Pikka> don't know if dan ever posted screenshots ;)
05:59:44  <supermop> i never saw any sprites anywhere though, i guess because no one takes monorail seriously enough to put it in railtype sets
05:59:55  <Pikka> monorail was the standard railtype in lunar
05:59:56  <supermop>
06:00:23  <supermop> is that like tto mars?
06:00:37  <Supercheese> there used to be stuff at Pikkawiki
06:01:24  <supermop> at above Tama pic: you need a pretty deep trench if you want at grade monorail to have same platform height as rail
06:01:41  <Pikka> my pineapple monorails look a bit like that
06:01:49  <Pikka> how they deal with level crossings is anyone's guess
06:02:04  <supermop> only one pineapple monorail, no?
06:02:08  <Pikka> only one
06:02:21  <Pikka> should do some more, and/or maglevs...
06:02:31  <Pikka> for the base set if nothing else
06:02:39  <supermop> well suffice to say there is not yet any really newgrf monorail graphic standards
06:02:50  <supermop> pikkabase?
06:02:56  <Pikka> something like that
06:03:11  <supermop> so i guess you or anyone can make it up as they see fit
06:03:38  <supermop> really monorail seems destined to wait in the wings for more flexible bridges
06:03:50  <supermop> then be built primarily elevated
06:04:16  <supermop> i only want it to decorate my cities on thin beamed bridges
06:04:57  <supermop> could fake it with foundations if railtypes supported custom foundations
06:17:40  <supermop> so tracked down anymore gems of queensland tropic modernism Pikka ?
06:17:51  <Pikka> well
06:18:31  <Pikka> I've got architecture and urban design in brisbane, volumes 1 and 2, from the library. So if that doesn't do it I don't know what will. :)
06:21:02  <supermop> oooh
06:21:56  <supermop> wasting time modelling hopper windows on this station
06:23:28  <V453000> watup
06:24:40  <supermop> i really like the graphic design on that monorail; just a big stepped gradient orange rectangle
06:36:28  <supermop> also, hi V453000
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08:38:54  <supermop> now im distracting myself with interior renders of this station.....
08:39:07  <V453000> :)
08:40:36  <supermop> hmmmm what if there was a tool that took ottd saves, then loaded them into a 3d engine or a modeller with parametric functionality, and plopped in blocks of buildings for various buildings used in game, and could render first person vistas of your ottd town
08:40:51  <Supercheese> sounds like Streets of SimCity
08:41:00  <Supercheese> they sort of did that with SimCity saves
08:41:12  <Supercheese> waaaaay old though
08:41:35  <V453000> :0 nice
08:41:43  <Supercheese> then again so is TTD
08:41:57  <V453000> but yeah I guess that isnt utterly nonsense, could be quite cute
08:42:09  <V453000> one of the dudes did a "openttd" animation before already
08:42:47  <Supercheese> TTD is actually older, so nevermind
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08:44:36  <supermop> yeah my neighbor had it back when it was out
08:44:41  <supermop> and simcopter
08:45:58  <Supercheese> I was so young I could never properly play simcopter
08:46:00  <Supercheese> always crashed
08:46:08  <Supercheese> Streets though was easy
08:46:27  <Supercheese> run around in a car, and hey if a building got in your way, equip 4 rocket launchers and destroy it
08:48:50  <Supercheese> dang now I kinda want to play it again
08:48:56  <Supercheese> nostalgia
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08:49:52  <supermop> Rails of Open TTD
08:50:27  <supermop> might get motion sickness when your train goes through 'curves' though
08:51:52  <Supercheese> Nah, OTTD supports smooth turning
08:52:00  <Supercheese> only newgrf that does it though is unfinished
08:52:17  <V453000> it is just a huge hack anyway
08:52:24  <Supercheese> yeah moar spritez
08:52:34  <V453000> also I think some of the CS newgrfs already do - or will - copy it and use it as wel
08:52:40  <V453000> ofc for just like 2 vehicles
08:52:41  <Supercheese> 45° too large? then make it 15° or whatnot
08:53:05  <Supercheese> <- that one
08:53:39  <V453000> yes
08:54:34  <V453000>
08:54:46  <planetmaker> it's not exactly a hack... it's the only sensible use of the turning / train bend variable I can actually think of :)
08:54:50  <V453000>
08:55:02  <V453000> sure pm but the code is just insane
08:55:03  <planetmaker> though I wonder why it was introduced in the first place... it's ancient :)
08:55:16  <supermop> tilting?
08:55:22  <Supercheese> NARS used it for tilt
08:55:28  <Supercheese> TurboTrain can be observed using it
08:55:38  <planetmaker> uh, I see.
08:55:38  <V453000> I only know about CETS
08:55:42  <supermop> acela?
09:09:18  <Supercheese> Hmm, no custom vehicle effect sprites yet
09:09:25  <Supercheese> just the default ones
09:09:43  <Supercheese> although I guess you could replace one with different graphics
09:11:04  <Supercheese> if you have breakdowns disabled, perhaps you could replace the aircraft breakdown smoke and then use that as a new effect sprite
09:11:25  <Supercheese> oh wait, the callback isn't even allowed for aircraft
09:11:36  <Supercheese> well dang
09:11:38  <chillcore> hmm ... you mean like vehicle specific sparks? that would be a bit overkill?
09:11:57  <chillcore> also  o/
09:11:58  <Supercheese> nah, I was brainstorming if the request for aircraft con trails was even possible
09:12:06  <chillcore> ah ok
09:12:12  <Supercheese> since the create_effect callback doesn't work for aircraft, it isn't
09:12:27  <chillcore> we have the smoke but that is it?
09:12:28  <__ln__> chem trails?
09:12:34  <Supercheese> can't do those either
09:12:37  <Supercheese> ;)
09:13:11  <chillcore> not even replace them by NewGRF?
09:13:20  <chillcore> just asking because me and NewGRF ...
09:14:37  <Supercheese> anyway, time for bed
09:14:51  <chillcore> nighty night ;)
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09:16:48  <chillcore> Just got of the phone ...
09:16:58  <chillcore> finally peeps are taking me seriously
09:17:14  <chillcore> looking at two possibly three jobs
09:17:40  <chillcore> volunteer for starters but yeah
09:18:15  <chillcore> Also an appointment for a seriuos talk about thet public computer safety ...
09:18:23  <chillcore> yay
09:20:03  <chillcore> "we are aware of the prob but we do not know a better way"
09:20:33  <chillcore> I do ... I do :P
09:20:42  <chillcore> anyhoo
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09:58:31  <Terkhen> hello
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10:49:17  <supermop> yo
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11:30:41  <supermop> ok:
11:30:43  <supermop>
11:31:06  <supermop> what style window/arch is best
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11:36:27  <planetmaker> pretty neat stations, supermop :)
11:37:06  <supermop> trying to keep it in the spirit of ogfx
11:37:21  <supermop> in case we ever want an ogfx+ station set
11:37:22  <chillcore> took the words right out of my mouth planetmaker
11:38:16  <supermop> so i'm not worrying about any exotic station bits yet - just default behavior with a few sprinkles
11:38:35  <planetmaker> if you want such set: sure! :) I mean to provide some coding for that, but I should be pretty careful with what I can currently promise, given my time I could dedicate
11:39:13  <planetmaker> I can't really say that one style or the other is better
11:40:19  <chillcore> you can have both styles supremop and let the player build the one he likes best for a given situation;)
11:40:21  <supermop> well the fully open brick arch is maybe best then.. with the others you'd probably want to check for adjacent station tiles when deciding if to draw them
11:40:54  <planetmaker> I don't think that doors would hurt, nor windows
11:40:55  <supermop> chillcore: of course but i feel like an ogfx+ set should be as light and easy to use as possible
11:41:13  <chillcore> oh right ... opengfx+
11:41:18  <planetmaker> supermop, it's easy to offer them as separate stations
11:41:26  <supermop> add extra sprinkles in an ogfx++ set
11:41:29  <planetmaker> even in the context of opengfx+ :)
11:41:35  <chillcore> ^^^
11:41:44  <supermop> ah
11:42:20  <supermop> well i'm trying to 'sell' this in the sense of convincing a coder to code, so i do not want to ask for anything too complex!
11:42:47  <planetmaker> supermop, if one can make one station, it's easy as pie to make the same with different graphics :)
11:42:50  <supermop> tomorrow i'll have the iron column instead of wall version, more like original graphics
11:42:54  <planetmaker> but identical dimensions
11:42:55  <chillcore> and honestly half an arch does not look as bad as you'd think it would
11:44:19  <supermop> ok
11:44:24  <chillcore> if you want to see one build two platforms at once and delete one ;)
11:45:02  <supermop> well my goals are three stations, based in spirit on the rail, mono, and mag stations
11:45:19  <supermop> then maybe 1 or two more to round it out
11:45:36  <supermop> but all stations available for all railtypes
11:45:59  <chillcore> yes please
11:46:02  <chillcore> hehe
11:46:49  <supermop> additional would be a very basic freight station, and maybe a 1940s or so station to fill the gap between the 1880s looking rail station and the 1960s looking monorail station
11:50:23  <supermop> any thoughts on glass vs no glass?
11:59:02  <chillcore> please do not crash the bots
11:59:06  <chillcore>
11:59:08  <chillcore> :P
11:59:41  <V453000> supermop: you can render the glass separately with alpha
11:59:42  <chillcore> maybe the one without glass could use some sturdier struts
11:59:52  <chillcore> but can not choose
11:59:55  <V453000> 32bpp half-alpha files work normally
12:01:47  <supermop> the reflected sky color seems a bit distracting, so i think plain grey rectangles rendered then made transparent with alpha in PS may let users see their trains better
12:02:12  <V453000> meh, or that
12:02:23  <supermop> in real life these types of station have much less glass, but that's no fun as you can't see your trains!
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12:02:25  <V453000> sounds way simple but as you see fit
12:02:29  <planetmaker> supermop, it needs two stations (per railtype) anyway: two tracks wide and 1 track wide
12:03:15  <supermop> planetmaker: yes, i assume i will do plain open platforms with a small shelter like in default
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12:03:28  <supermop> for the single platform
12:06:02  <supermop> V453000: ill try rendered glass with alpha. it just looks so blue in that one rendering...
12:06:34  <V453000> well sure but I bet you can tweak environment values; or bake some texture into the glass itself
12:06:36  <V453000> or something
12:08:16  <V453000> btw "realistic texture scale" just looks as if you coloured the objects with a solid color
12:08:33  <V453000> idk how visible will the bricks be if they are so tinyu
12:08:35  <V453000> -u
12:10:15  <supermop> hmm
12:10:26  <supermop> yeah bricks twice as big could help
12:11:39  <V453000> just in general :)
12:11:41  <supermop> im going to try turning off AA as well
12:12:11  <supermop> and upping the procedural variation between bricks
12:12:34  <supermop> maybe up to 2% rgb variation
12:13:09  <V453000> even if you had saturation random to 40% it would be ok :)
12:13:47  <supermop> and overlay some dinginess towards lower part of brick walls
12:14:31  <supermop> bottoms of platforms always look gross in NYC
12:15:37  <planetmaker> yup, that helps to avoid the hovering building impression
12:18:43  <supermop> planetmaker: can you split the station posts off into a new topic?
12:19:03  <supermop> seems out of place given that name of topic is about roads..
12:19:18  <supermop> if you are busy ill just flag for another moderator
12:21:43  <planetmaker> done
12:21:45  <supermop> yay thanks
12:22:12  <planetmaker> up to you to choose a more imaginative title for the 1st posting :)
12:22:25  <supermop> ok bed time! more iron and steel to model tomorrow
12:23:38  <chillcore> good night
12:24:31  <planetmaker> g'night
12:31:08  <chillcore> planetmaker:  a bit back I had someone ask me for a 'simple' train template for blender
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12:31:28  <chillcore> I did not know what to show him except direct him to openttdcoop.
12:31:46  <chillcore> got any suggestions for if the question arises agian?
12:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... dd_rescue is slooow
12:33:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it's been over 12 hours, and it copied 200GB out of 1.5TB
12:34:30  <chillcore> that is a lot of data to copy in one go ...
12:36:15  <chillcore> from experience on my slower machines doing smaller chunks saves time
12:36:24  <chillcore> not sure if you have that option though
12:36:46  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you mean?
12:37:17  <chillcore> copying 10 times 10 GB is faster then copying 100GB at once
12:37:19  <chillcore> that
12:37:38  <chillcore> not al 10 at the same time ofcourse
13:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd much rather just let that computer sit in the corner for 3 days than fiddle with stuff
13:21:35  <chillcore> huhu I agree that stopping it now is a bad idea
13:21:55  <chillcore> but maybe there is an option for it for in the future ;)
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13:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i don't see how that helps when just making a linear copy. it's not like it has to worry about allocating file space on the target filesystem or something
13:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: you think i'll remember that option in 5 years when i need it again?
13:23:02  <chillcore> memory usage? ... remembering what it did and what still needs to be done
13:23:20  <chillcore> I dunno what causes it ... just know that it happens ;)
13:23:46  <chillcore> and yeah ... maybe you will not remember xD
13:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> the slowest copies i ever had was when writing large files to an NTFS
13:24:10  <Eddi|zuHause> on linux
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15:05:03  <Samu> hi
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15:09:19  <Alberth> o/
15:13:10  <chillcore> \o
15:13:30  <Samu>
15:13:34  <Samu> my new version :p
15:14:19  <Samu> I vastly simplified that gigantic line
15:14:37  <Samu> MakeStation(t2, wc != WATER_CLASS_CANAL ? OWNER_WATER : wc == WATER_CLASS_CANAL && HasTileWaterClass(t2) && GetWaterClass(t2) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL ? GetTileOwner(t2) : o, sid, STATION_DOCK, GFX_DOCK_BASE_WATER_PART + DiagDirToAxis(d), wc);
15:15:09  <Samu> takes 2 lines now on irc, better than 4
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16:20:32  <Samu> how do i create a setting?
16:21:10  <Samu> At the moment, the setting is re-using "allow drive-through road stops on roads owned by other companies" though I would prefer to create a different setting on its own in the future.
16:21:19  <Samu> the future is now
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16:29:26  <FLHerne> Aargh, how long did it take for me to realise that I can use variables directly as spriteset indices? :-(
16:29:56  <Alberth> less than infinite, I'd say :)
16:30:10  * FLHerne cheerfully scraps quite a lot of switches and duplicate spritelayouts
16:30:12  <planetmaker> :)
16:30:15  <planetmaker> good evening
16:30:19  <Alberth> o/
16:31:28  <planetmaker> sprite: spriteset(slope_to_spriteset(current_slope) * 2 + snow);
16:31:29  <planetmaker> ;)
16:31:38  <planetmaker> just needs a 38 sprites spriteset
16:31:45  <planetmaker> and a boolean snow variable
16:32:27  <FLHerne> I can use arithmetic in these things? :D
16:32:32  <FLHerne> Everything gets so much easier
16:32:36  <planetmaker> yup
16:32:38  <planetmaker> :)
16:32:50  <Alberth> plain ran out of those planetmaker, I am afraid, maybe next winter again
16:33:26  <planetmaker> I won't mind non-snowyness until next winter. So it'll be all fine :)
16:35:54  <planetmaker> @ FLHerne
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17:43:09  <Samu> SDT_BOOL(GameSettings, construction.road_stop_on_competitor_road,        0, 0, true,                              STR_CONFIG_SETTING_STOP_ON_COMPETITOR_ROAD, STR_CONFIG_SETTING_STOP_ON_COMPETITOR_ROAD_HELPTEXT, STR_NULL, NULL, 114, SL_MAX_VERSION,        SC_BASIC),
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27218 trunk/src/lang/luxembourgish.txt (2015-04-02 19:45:16 +0200 )
17:45:26  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27  <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 361 changes by Phreeze
17:46:06  <Samu> help me a little bit
17:48:21  <Samu> SDT_BOOL has no member :(
17:48:51  <Samu> trying to generate a setting with the name construction.water_structure_on_competitor_canal
17:55:02  <Alberth> you need some .ini file in table
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18:03:43  <Alberth> quak
18:03:57  <frosch123> hai
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18:06:47  <Wolf01> o/
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18:10:17  <Wolf01> o/
18:10:26  <Alberth> o/
18:11:51  <andythenorth> o/ o/
18:12:30  <Wolf01> lol
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18:17:25  <Samu> i think i got it
18:19:46  <Samu> from 114, what is thins number?
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18:23:16  <Alberth> the number after 113?
18:26:59  <flipFLOPS> 120 (base4)
18:27:01  <flipFLOPS> :^)
18:29:44  <Alberth> ah, but it was a decimal number :p
18:30:21  <Alberth> @calc base 10 4 113
18:30:22  <DorpsGek> Alberth: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
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18:46:47  * andythenorth ponders a new GS
18:46:48  <andythenorth> o_O
18:47:21  <Alberth> fun one, I hope?
18:47:41  <andythenorth> “Go West” or such
18:47:46  <andythenorth> unlock towns one at a time
18:48:34  <andythenorth> I’m playing current Busy Bee, and I think it’s ‘done’
18:48:57  <Samu> this is the longest named setting in the game
18:48:58  <Alberth> mostly it is, there are a number of small enhancements you could make
18:48:59  <andythenorth> it solves the ‘no big goal’ style of gameplay
18:49:19  <andythenorth> interestingly, with a small FIRS economy, it’s not as fun
18:49:25  <andythenorth> the goals are frequently similar
18:49:34  <andythenorth> by contrast, it makes Full FIRS actually playable
18:49:40  <Alberth> not enough industries?
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18:49:51  <Alberth> oh, must try that one then
18:49:58  <andythenorth> not enough types / flows
18:50:02  <Samu> water_structure_on_competitor_canal
18:50:06  <Samu> help me short this name
18:50:15  <andythenorth> small economies were invented after I started playing SV / NoCarGoal
18:50:18  <andythenorth> iirc
18:50:23  <Alberth> guessed so, I have that problem with default industries in tropical too
18:50:37  <andythenorth> for cargo goal scripts, more industry types isn’t a benefit
18:50:44  <andythenorth> as they only use 3 or 5 types or so
18:51:07  <Samu> build_on_competitor_canal
18:51:09  <Alberth> ah right, BB uses all of them :)
18:51:16  <andythenorth> yup
18:51:31  <andythenorth> so with Full FIRS, ~60 industry types, you get a crazy organic network
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18:51:51  <Alberth> sounds like a great experiment :)
18:51:57  <Alberth> recommended map-size?
18:52:02  * andythenorth looks
18:52:16  <andythenorth> 512x512 or 256x512
18:52:17  <Alberth> doesn't matter much, perhaps
18:52:20  <andythenorth> larger is too large
18:52:24  <andythenorth> smaller is not enough space
18:52:33  <Alberth> yeah something like that sounds good
18:53:00  <andythenorth> with FIRS Basic, I want something like ‘connect all the steel mills’
18:53:07  <Alberth> haven't played 256x256 for a long time :)
18:53:08  <andythenorth> but that’s not possible, can’t integrate that tightly
18:53:53  <Alberth> cargo-dist gets in the way too then, perhaps
18:53:56  <andythenorth> ish
18:54:07  <andythenorth> cdist isn’t fighting me currently, except with supplies
18:54:30  <Alberth> one of the advantages of a highly fragmented network :)
18:54:32  <andythenorth> “Steel King: you’ve been given the contract to supply all the steel mills with iron ore, scrap metal and coal”
18:54:40  <andythenorth> “You have 35 years to complete your goal"
18:54:50  <Alberth> sounds SV-ish
18:54:57  <andythenorth> but tying a GS to FIRS that tightly isn’t possible / easy
18:55:28  <Alberth> it's more a scenario you'd want to do
18:55:51  <Samu> base     = GameSettings, var      = construction.build_on_competitor_canal, from     = 114
18:55:55  <Samu> what is this 114?
18:56:23  <Alberth> ever tried the FreightTrainChallenge  scenario  andy?
18:56:40  <Alberth> Samu: first savegame version that has the setting, probably
18:56:42  <andythenorth> no
18:56:50  <Samu> oh, I see
18:56:55  <Samu> then it's 195
18:57:16  <andythenorth> I’d just use ships :P
18:57:18  <Alberth>
18:57:20  <andythenorth> that’s missing the point
18:58:21  <Alberth> I didn't do the town goods, which makes it a lot easier, I was told
18:58:35  <Samu> def = is default value?
18:58:50  <Samu> hmm, so tempted to put a true there
18:58:53  <Alberth> Samu: sounds reasonable
19:08:20  <Samu> I'm still getting these warnings
19:08:22  <Samu> Warning	1	warning C4267: 'initializing' : conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint', possible loss of data	C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\smallmap_gui.cpp	1077	1	openttd
19:08:36  <Samu> Warning	2	warning C4267: '-=' : conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint32', possible loss of data	C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\terraform_cmd.cpp	406	1	openttd
19:10:17  <Samu> didn't touch those files
19:12:09  <flipFLOPS> are you assignig size_t into unsigned int
19:12:20  <Samu> no idea
19:12:22  <flipFLOPS> also you should be googling this shit up m8
19:13:10  <flipFLOPS> well go to the line where it's throwing you a warning and look at wtf is habbening
19:13:19  <Samu> i get 2 of these warnings, and 238 about Warning	3	warning LNK4099: PDB 'vc100.pdb' was not found with 'icuuc.lib(ubidi.obj)' or at 'C:\OpenTTD\trunk\objs\x64\Release\vc100.pdb'; linking object as if no debug info	C:\OpenTTD\trunk\projects\icuuc.lib(ubidi.obj)	openttd
19:13:28  <Samu> LNK4099
19:13:38  <flipFLOPS> o
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19:13:56  <flipFLOPS> if you're trying to build openttd on vs you might as well stop now
19:14:17  <Samu> it builds
19:14:23  <Samu> but only for testing
19:14:29  <flipFLOPS> hrmery
19:15:10  <Samu> can't make a stand-alone build
19:15:32  <flipFLOPS> i could never get it to work myself
19:15:44  <Alberth> size_t is probably 64 bit at your machine
19:15:51  <flipFLOPS> i vagely recall being able to build it with vs2012 on one of the earlier builds
19:16:12  <Samu> yes, i am trying to build 64 bits version
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19:27:40  <Samu> how do i know the savegame will save this new setting?
19:27:51  <Samu> or a network game
19:30:38  <Samu> oh, it's saved already
19:30:52  <Samu> how do i convert old savegame behaviour now?
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19:31:14  <Samu> there is a peculiar situation
19:31:30  <Samu> locks can already be placed on canals owned by competitors, but docks cannot
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19:31:35  <Samu> how do I solve this
19:33:55  <Samu> default to enabled?
19:34:12  <Samu> default to disabled?
19:41:59  <Alberth> fix in afterload.cpp
19:42:30  <Alberth> you added bits to the map, those should be set correctly when loading an old savegame
19:43:51  <Alberth> you incremented the savegame number too I hope, or you now have save games without addition, and savegames with addition, both with the same savegame number
19:44:22  <Samu> it is bumped to 195
19:44:26  <Alberth> k
19:44:36  <Samu> it is already being used to do 3 things in
19:44:38  <Samu> 1
19:44:51  <Samu> this is the 4th
19:44:53  <Alberth> and 'from' is also 195
19:45:57  <Alberth> that's the nice thing about your own patches, you can do several things at a time :)
19:46:07  <Alberth> trunk has to be more clean
19:46:18  <Samu> if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(195)
19:46:48  <Samu> converts owner of water part of docks to new owner
19:47:15  <Samu> moves a bit
19:47:22  <Samu> from industry to another positiion
19:47:38  <Samu> converts all to that position
19:47:43  <Samu> now, adding this setting
19:47:52  <Samu> my question is
19:47:57  <Samu> what do I default it to?
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19:48:37  <Alberth> default value of the setting
19:48:50  <Samu> even for old games?
19:49:18  <Samu> it's only 1 setting to control 2 behaviours
19:49:19  <Alberth> old games don't have the setting, so it's added with the default value
19:49:43  <Samu> old games: locks can already be placed on canals owned by competitors, but docks cannot
19:49:47  <Alberth> if the map doesn't correspond you get interesting situations
19:50:14  <Samu> it's a decision problem
19:50:58  <Samu> I'm inclined to convert it to enabled
19:51:31  <Alberth> you want to be able to have all possible situations that can happen in old games at least
19:52:19  <Alberth> if you eg would forbid locks on competitor canals, and you load an old game that uses it, you have a lot of work to convert it
19:53:04  <Alberth> if you can express everything that can exist in an old game by default, conversion is much easier
19:53:15  <Samu> there was no such setting at all
19:53:20  <Samu> only the behaviour :(
19:53:53  <Alberth> so it was sort implied enabled thus :)
19:54:00  <Alberth> sort of*
19:55:03  <Samu> ok, enabled
19:55:13  <Samu> that means, I don't have to convert anything
19:55:25  <Samu> it is defaulting to enabled i think
19:55:28  <Samu> let me try
19:58:09  <andythenorth> where is chocolate cat egg?
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19:59:09  <Samu> oops, it's not doing what  Ithink
19:59:13  <Samu> must really convert
19:59:16  <Samu> brb
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20:04:32  <Samu> done
20:05:12  <Samu> now, one thing still needing to be done
20:05:33  *** Ketsuban_ is now known as Ketsuban
20:05:33  <Samu> prospecting oil rigs on canals owned by competitors :(
20:06:28  <Samu> quite hard to track this bug, i had to create a map filled with canals from one company
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21:18:47  <Samu> Warning	1	warning C4267: '=' : conversion from 'size_t' to 'uInt', possible loss of data	C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\textfile_gui.cpp	230	1	openttd
21:19:11  <Samu> static void Gunzip(byte **bufp, size_t *sizep)
21:19:18  <Samu> 	z.avail_in = *sizep;
21:19:29  <Samu> :o
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21:30:10  <Terkhen> good night
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21:49:56  <supermop> yo
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22:22:03  <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:48:31  <Samu> yay new version
22:48:44  <Samu>  game setting for dock and lock on competitor canal on permanent rivers v4 r27218.patch [32.54 KiB]
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23:36:50  <Supercheese> This is perhaps the dumbest data-size analogy I have ever heard:
23:36:54  <Supercheese> "...engineers collected nearly three terabytes of data — equivalent to 30 percent of all of the printed material in the Library of Congress"
23:37:16  <Supercheese> what the hell prompted that comparison, I will never know

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