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Log for #openttd on 5th April 2015:
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00:11:50  <drac_boy> so what're you two doing atm?
00:15:54  <supermop> eating chocolate
00:20:45  <drac_boy> nice
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00:23:48  <drac_boy> slow night for me here anyhow..sorting out how to print a second edition book (can't decide if want do a digital copy too or not so) ..
00:23:55  <drac_boy> tomorrow hmm just a few misc paperworks
00:44:45  <glx> oh I left the top
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01:33:39  <supermop> TaI game is interesting diversion from modeling
01:48:12  <Pikka> silly TaI
01:53:00  <Pikka> got some fun variations on the TaI mechanics planned for pineapple industries...now I just need the time to create it. :)
01:55:53  <supermop> hehe
01:56:00  <supermop> playing tai with SV
01:56:14  <Pikka> does it break?
01:56:27  <supermop> got distracted from by goal town by building up an industrial city to the east
01:56:34  <supermop> no seems to work so far
01:56:57  <supermop> but i have yet to get my $$ to build my goal industries, so we will see
01:57:16  <supermop> i don't see any of the town halls though
01:57:31  <supermop> so im just guessing what types of towns these are
01:58:12  <supermop> this industrial city is producing tons of passengers and sending them out into the world via cargodist
01:58:25  <supermop> but the little towns they go to produce almost none
01:58:42  <supermop> so all these ukrs expresses taking them there return empty
02:00:31  <supermop> so ive built a huge tram network to give more destinations in the city, but of course those distances are not as long
02:02:42  <supermop> ooooh e-class 6021 outside!
02:03:02  <supermop> now there are more e classes that D2s on the network
02:03:19  <supermop> finally. the combinos are way too loud and bumpy
02:04:08  <supermop> can't wait till they get rid of all the D classes on my street and bother someone else with them
02:08:50  <Eddi|zuHause> NIMBY!
02:14:40  <supermop> the combinos are shit
02:15:04  <supermop> every one of them sounds and feels like it has square wheels
02:15:42  <Pikka> oh, TaI towns, not industries :P
02:16:12  <supermop> using both i think?
02:17:06  <supermop> does transporting output away from an industry let it use its stockpile faster?
02:17:58  <Pikka> yeah, it should say in the window how fast it's producing
02:18:14  <Pikka> it won't rise above the slowest rate if nothing's being transported away iirc
02:19:04  <supermop> ok
02:19:28  <supermop> coal makes the steel mill go faster?
02:19:47  <supermop> brb taco time
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04:21:46  <supermop_> ok
04:24:04  <supermop_> what does the fuel depot do?
04:27:46  <Pikka> accepts fuel oil
04:28:05  <Supercheese> and wood in arctic, IIRC
04:28:31  <Supercheese> it's similar to the gas stations in ECS and FIRS
04:36:27  <supermop_> ok. so no reason to dump fuel there rather than the gas stations in town though?
04:37:02  <Pikka> I don't know if the TaI petrol stations accept it. otherwise, no, not really.
04:38:12  <supermop_> well its farther away so i get more money i guess
04:38:32  <supermop_> i didn't know if tai used to to boost growth or something
04:50:12  <Pikka> what's a (good?) name for a gamescript where companies compete for points to "win" towns?
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04:57:01  <Supercheese> Key to the City
04:57:07  <Supercheese> first thing that came ti mind
04:57:09  <Supercheese> to*
04:57:13  <Pikka> ew :) thanks
05:08:28  <supermop_> damnit did not get to build any electrified lines to buy a 'southern emu' before my trial was up
05:08:53  <supermop_> hmmm
05:08:57  <supermop_> emu....
05:09:00  <supermop_> moa?
05:09:25  <supermop_> moa a good name for fictional emu
05:09:40  <supermop_> maybe if IH ever gets EMUs
05:09:56  <supermop_> or if pineapple needs some earlier ones?
05:10:23  <supermop_> or maybe i need to make a EMU set called Moa
05:11:00  <supermop_> Multpleunit Overhead Ac-powered?
05:11:09  <supermop_> yesss
05:11:56  <supermop_> I'll leave you and andy to fight over the scraps of naming an EMU 'Ostrich'
05:13:55  <supermop_> tram network has sapped all of the passengers away from my train lines, need to shuttle this pannier over to go work light freight on other side of town
05:18:13  <supermop_> The Moa and Camel could be a good pub name referencing metro-cammel emus too
05:18:24  <supermop_> of to rhino to model a pub!
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06:06:36  <andythenorth> bonsoir
06:06:43  <andythenorth> also morning Pikka chops
06:07:05  <supermop_> hi andy
06:07:42  <andythenorth> is this Pikka dead?
06:09:50  <supermop_> he was on  bit ago
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06:16:09  <andythenorth> early Alberths
06:16:55  <Alberth> moins
06:17:39  <Alberth> 8am that early?  I get up at around 7am normally
06:26:53  <Pikka> what what what
06:27:05  <Pikka> andythenorth, what do I call my gamescript?
06:27:52  <Alberth> what does it do? (or intends to do)
06:28:06  <Pikka> <Pikka> what's a (good?) name for a gamescript where companies compete for points to "win" towns?
06:28:38  <andythenorth> capture the flag
06:28:43  <Pikka> yes but
06:28:44  <Alberth> towncollect
06:29:11  <Alberth> citymaster
06:31:50  <andythenorth> connect 4
06:31:52  <andythenorth> pokemon
06:31:58  <andythenorth> monopoly
06:32:04  <Pikka> I will call it all of those
06:32:04  <andythenorth> points win prizes
06:32:11  <andythenorth> pointless
06:32:14  <andythenorth> what’s the point
06:32:31  <andythenorth> grosse point blank
06:34:11  <Pikka> I could just call it fred
06:34:46  <andythenorth> wilmah
06:34:49  <andythenorth> barney
06:36:27  <Alberth> wat (win a town)
06:36:34  * andythenorth crashes ottd
06:36:43  <andythenorth> ho quite hard
06:36:57  <Pikka> what did you do?
06:37:03  <andythenorth> reloaded newgrfs
06:37:08  <andythenorth> when vehicles have changed length
06:37:18  <Alberth> :)
06:39:10  * andythenorth misses fast-fwd
06:39:14  <andythenorth> was a useful feature
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06:50:35  <Pikka> why, what did you do to it?
06:51:27  <andythenorth> I chose a computing platform that changes often
06:51:37  <andythenorth> also I chose 2x UI zoom
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07:16:20  * andythenorth trucks a livestock
07:31:10  * Supercheese lives a stock truck
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07:43:38  <Supercheese> Huh, I was checking out (English) Wikipedia's Did you know section, and found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_the_Lord_Is_Risen_Again!
07:43:51  <Supercheese> it claimed not to be confused with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_the_Lord_Is_Risen_Today
07:44:00  <Supercheese> but of course I immediately did confuse the two
07:44:25  <Supercheese> started humming the wrong tune...
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07:58:21  <andythenorth> moar Hog
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08:08:17  <Pikka> moar hog than you can poke a stick at
08:10:25  <andythenorth> watch your swines head
08:10:29  <andythenorth> with that stick
08:17:38  <andythenorth> pikka so is capture the flag playable yet? o_O
08:18:17  <Pikka> not at all
08:18:38  <Pikka> I just wasn't doing enough things at the same time, so I decided to revisit writing a GS. :)
08:21:21  <andythenorth> good call
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08:34:05  <Wolf01> is easter happy?
08:35:57  <andythenorth> happy as a bunny
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08:46:14  <supermop> reminds me to go eat chocolate
08:48:12  <andythenorth> bbl
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08:55:15  <supermop> ok moa pub sign done
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11:03:25  <Terkhen> hello
11:03:33  <Alberth> hello Terkhen
11:10:11  <frosch123> moin
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13:32:16  <Samu> have you seen the reddit game?
13:32:29  <Samu> there is a city sized 412k
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13:38:39  <Samu> never seen a game so populated
13:38:43  <Samu> 17 players in
13:43:22  <Samu> lol, so funny, i entered a company of someone who didn't know how to raise money
13:43:51  <Samu> didn't raise loan...
13:44:04  <Samu> but was waiting for money
13:44:19  <Alberth> casual players don't read manuals
13:44:42  <Alberth> given the current games that have dummy manuals built-in, it's not so weird
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13:58:55  <Samu> they're discussing novaclient, do you know what that is? about easier order making
14:01:59  <Alberth> don't know it
14:04:01  <Samu> these guys must be cheating
14:10:22  <Samu> how can they have this city so big
14:13:25  <Alberth> there are experts that play openttd for making big cities :)
14:14:07  <Alberth> there are also topics at the forum about it
14:14:28  <Alberth> and perhaps even at the wiki
14:14:47  <frosch123> there is always a bigger fish
14:14:47  <Alberth> I never studied them, as I am not interesting in having a big city
14:15:03  <frosch123> i think i saw a 1.5M city
14:15:16  <frosch123> anyway, if you know how to do it, it's boring :p
14:18:56  <frosch123> Samu: https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/User:Mfb/Towns <- if you want to learn it
14:19:09  <frosch123> there is a 2.5M town in one of the screenshots
14:20:03  <frosch123> basically you have to garden the town
14:20:11  <frosch123> you cannot just let it grow as it comes :p
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14:28:42  <Samu> spiral roads
14:28:43  <Samu> heh
14:28:54  <Samu> and tunnels
14:33:58  <Samu> openttd has got an "obscure interface", someone comments, I wonder what it is
14:34:11  *** DanMacK [~46189b5e@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
14:34:17  <DanMacK> Hey all
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14:38:30  <Samu> hi
14:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> eddit used to be in first place in the past <-- i was never first in number of lines. only in number of words. nobody can beat andythemonologue
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16:37:59  <Samu> i'm so disappointed
16:38:13  <Samu> teleporting cargo is allowed
16:38:18  <Samu> station spreading is allowed
16:38:28  <Samu> this reddit server is horrible
16:39:34  <Samu> they're being teached the wrong way...
16:39:39  <Samu> "it's a trick"
16:39:51  <frosch123> yeah, there is only one true way to play the game
16:39:51  <Samu> teaching noobs the flaws of the game
16:40:51  <Samu> i am surprised i'm the only one complaining, out of 17
16:40:59  <Samu> it's sad
16:41:10  <frosch123> most imporant is, that you play it correctly, instead of just having fun
16:42:37  <Samu> they are abusing the town spread algorithm to the point they're splitting the map in 4 parts
16:43:02  <Samu> :(
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16:43:25  <frosch123> that for sure can't be fun
16:45:27  <Samu> there's a town with houses extending from coordinates 1005 x 230 all the way to 134 x 230
16:45:45  <frosch123> terrible
16:45:49  <LordAro> Samu: you've clearly never seen an openttdcoop game :p
16:46:02  <LordAro> (progame 5 is something else)
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17:11:21  <Marty> Anyone with experience with ECS vectors?
17:13:19  <Samu> not me
17:14:43  <frosch123> there is an extensive documnetation on tt-wiki.net
17:15:10  <frosch123> but other than that, it does not appear particular popular these days
17:16:01  <frosch123> it's the first big industry set, newer sets learned from it, i guess
17:20:31  <Marty> What are the alternatives to ECS? And can you use one of the vectors alone
17:20:37  <Marty> or do you have to use all at once
17:21:44  <frosch123> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS_Vectors
17:21:50  <frosch123> town vector is must
17:21:53  <frosch123> rest is optional
17:22:16  <Marty> ah okay, I just see that lots of the vectors depend on each other
17:22:23  <Marty> Do you use any mods your self frosch123 ?
17:23:13  <frosch123> alternatives are ogfx+industries (simple), yeti (medium), firs (medium to complex depending on parameters)
17:24:13  <frosch123> there are also some other variations of the three
17:24:37  <frosch123> like ogfx+manpower industries or whatever it is called
17:25:50  <Marty> Thanks a lot, was just what I wanted to know
17:26:57  <Samu> i'm doing something a bit dangerous in the code
17:27:17  <Samu> manipulating an error
17:27:28  <Samu> conditionalizing
17:27:54  <frosch123> Marty: https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF#Version_1.1_and_later <- if you are planning to use ogfx+industries or firs, you need to know about step 3 "newgrf parameters" :)
17:28:32  <Marty> Will look into it, I only knew about ECS but Im checking out yeti right now
17:28:37  <Marty> 180 mb .. big download
17:28:53  <Marty> compared to a 7mb game
17:29:12  <frosch123> it has an extensive documentation at https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/yeti
17:29:19  <frosch123> yes, yeti has zoomed-in graphics
17:30:03  <frosch123> if you are going to use yeti, you will need a trainset that supports them
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17:30:16  <frosch123> pineable trains, iron horse, or nuts
17:30:46  <frosch123> most other sets will work as well, but are unlikely to have specific yeti graphics
17:30:49  <Marty> Nuts lol
17:30:53  <Samu> if (ret.Failed()) - don't fail yet, fail if it meets extra criteria, or maybe even pass!
17:38:36  <Marty> Any recommendation for choosing a industry set?
17:40:02  <frosch123> no, they all have different game mechanics
17:40:40  <frosch123> i would recommend to not use one with more than 3 times the industry types than you are used to :)
17:41:24  <frosch123> it can get annoying if you have many similar looking industries, and have a hard time to figure out where to actually transport stuff
17:41:50  <frosch123> if you are not used to using the industry chain view and linking it to the map, you will have a hard time
17:42:21  <frosch123> so, just try, and look at the parameters if the water is too cold :p
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17:43:04  <Marty> why do you need the trainset for yeti?
17:44:12  <frosch123> are you using any trainset or vehicleset currently?
17:44:27  <Marty> I just use the basic ttd set
17:44:39  <frosch123> then you won't have any vehicles to transport the new cargos :p
17:44:53  <frosch123> you cannot use the default vehicles with the advanced industry sets
17:45:04  <Marty> ah okay thats why
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27220 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-04-05 19:45:14 +0200 )
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 2 changes by Gavin
17:45:42  <frosch123> if you haven't used any vehicleset before, you will likely also encounter cargo refitting
17:46:32  <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Refit <- with the default vehicles it only exists for ships and aircraft
17:46:49  <frosch123> but it's the normal case for any other train- or road vehicle set
17:47:09  <Marty> yeah :) I used to play the original TT game back 20 years ago
17:50:19  <V453000> there are only like 4 custom cargoes in YETI so it isnt apparent at the first glance :P
17:50:39  <Marty> FIRS seem pretty big by comparison
17:50:50  <frosch123> firs has parameters
17:51:01  <frosch123> the default economy is "full firs", which i would not recommend in the slightest :p
17:51:16  <frosch123> via parameters you can pick from several smaller economies
17:51:51  <Marty> The temperate basic seems more like what I should t ry
17:51:52  <Marty> try
17:52:06  <Marty> yeti and ecs does also seem pretty neat
17:52:12  <Samu> i just found a bug
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17:52:24  <Marty> I like how you can stockpile some resources at the production plants.
17:53:51  <V453000> yeti has a very functional, simple concept
17:53:57  <V453000> but getting it work well requires having a nice network :)
17:54:03  <Samu> 1. have the option to fund primary industries as other industries
17:54:31  <Samu> 2. click to fund an industry, but don't place it
17:54:40  <Samu> 3. now change the setting to prospecting
17:55:06  <Samu> bug: the cursor didn't revert
17:55:36  <Samu> i can place a prospecting industry
17:55:37  <Samu> :(
18:02:06  <Marty> wow FIRS is really really crazy
18:02:14  <Marty> Impressive but very hard to understand.
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18:13:15  <Samu> who's an expert on detecting all corner cases here? chillcore?
18:13:33  <Samu> i need help on conditionalizing an error https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pyjz1t6cc
18:13:57  <Samu> between line 21 and 34 is the important part
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18:43:31  <Samu> no one understands?
18:47:41  <Alberth> how is clearing a water tile related to industry funding?
18:48:35  <Samu> checking who owns it
18:49:39  <Samu> if _current_company is OWNER_NONE or OWNER_TOWN then it's an industry that's being placed
18:50:34  <Samu> if _current_company is one of the other 15, then it's not an industry that's being placed, it's a real company
18:50:53  <Samu> OWNER_TOWN is for prospecting
18:51:12  <Samu> OWNER_NONE is for funding or random creation as far as I could understand
18:51:16  <frosch123> yup, that is the intentional behaviour
18:51:59  <frosch123> prospected industries which choose their location randomly should not be constructed on player property
18:52:05  <frosch123> like bought land or canals or whatever
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18:52:22  <frosch123> if the player pcks the location themself, they are free to choose their property
18:52:27  <chillcore> hello all o/
18:52:34  <frosch123> hi chill
18:52:35  <Samu> there's my doubt about _local_company
18:52:54  <Samu> _local_company is the company who actually issued the order, if I got this right
18:53:03  <frosch123> no, you got that wrong
18:53:08  <Samu> :o
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18:53:28  <frosch123> local_company never changes
18:53:35  <frosch123> it's the company of the client ottd is running on
18:53:58  <frosch123> it has different values for every players' computer, if they have different companies
18:54:17  <frosch123> using it in a command, other than for decidcing whether to popup news messages or something, will desync
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18:56:35  <Samu> then how can i retrieve the company who issued the prospect command :(
18:57:01  <Samu> i was using _local_company :(
18:57:08  <frosch123> it's _current_company at the beginning of the command
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18:57:26  <Samu> _current_company is OWNER_TOWN for prospecting
18:57:30  <frosch123> but it is switched in the middle to some neutral company, due to the reasons above
18:57:46  <frosch123> if you want to keep it, you have to pass it to the functions separately
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19:06:42  <chillcore> wrong buuuuuuuutton XD
19:06:54  <chillcore> I fund a bugsie
19:06:58  <chillcore> a real one
19:07:00  <Samu> I have to think: an industry, other than oil rig, has to be placed by OWNER_TOWN, and not by the prospecting company, due to the reason it could spawn on company-owned land
19:07:01  <frosch123> picking up pm's habbits?
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19:07:18  <frosch123> pm presses ctrl+w all the time :p
19:07:25  <chillcore> bought land signs are on the wrong tile ...
19:07:32  <frosch123> already fixed
19:07:43  <Samu> damn purchase land :(
19:07:44  <frosch123> it's a ogfx bug in the rc
19:08:01  <frosch123> it's only wrong in zoom-in
19:08:07  <chillcore> ok thx frosch
19:08:28  <frosch123> because the zoom-in gui sprite was assigned to the viewport sprite
19:09:21  <Samu> an oil rig doen't have the issue of being placed on company-purchased land though
19:09:27  <Samu> you can't purchase water
19:09:35  <chillcore> hmm ... ok
19:09:36  <Samu> and oil rigs needs water
19:09:40  <Samu> hmm
19:09:50  <frosch123> canals are purchased water
19:10:14  <frosch123> btw. oil is not made of water :p
19:10:32  <Samu> yes, I was conditionalizing if ret.Failed() to pass
19:10:50  <frosch123> oil has carbon instead of oxygen
19:11:56  <Samu> it fails, but I force it to pass whenever it ends on self canal, not on competitor's canals
19:12:04  <Samu> at least, that was the idea
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19:25:19  <Samu> question, do you know of any hybrid industries? part water, part land?
19:25:36  <Samu> have you seen such an industry in a newgrf or so?
19:26:11  <frosch123> every harbor industry
19:26:34  <Samu> Crap
19:26:35  <Samu> :(
19:32:57  <Samu> INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER
19:36:28  <Samu> how do i get an industry behaviour of an industry that does not yet exist :(
19:37:07  <Samu> the layout is not even decided yet :(
19:37:11  <Samu> or is it?
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20:01:23  <Terkhen> good night
20:08:55  <Samu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=72881 - nice bug
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20:35:54  <Samu> 			if (indspec->behaviour & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER)	{
20:36:44  <Samu> i dont know how to use the backup
20:37:17  <Samu> or rather, skip the backup
20:37:33  <Samu> 			Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, OWNER_TOWN, FILE_LINE);
20:46:20  <Samu> 			Owner prospector = OWNER_TOWN;
20:46:31  <Samu> 			if (indspec->behaviour & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) prospector = _current_company;
20:46:42  <Samu> 			Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, prospector, FILE_LINE);
20:53:04  <Samu> there! I fooled the backup
20:53:07  <Samu> :)
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21:10:27  <Samu> bah
21:10:37  <Samu> this was not the behaviour I was looking for
21:11:35  <Samu> if (_settings_game.construction.build_on_competitor_canal && _current_company != owner) return ret;
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22:01:32  <Samu> i'm terrible at logic, worse at reverse logic
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23:02:59  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:04:54  *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00b51e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
23:05:23  <Samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!794&authkey=!ANXP6eHUDNnQh-M&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
23:05:26  <Samu> need help
23:06:09  <Samu> can't use local company
23:06:25  <Samu> but i have to decide based on its value :(
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23:36:39  <Samu> i can't tell the difference between funding and prospecting if I set the _current_company to be the same as _local_company in the part where it sets the prospector code to town :(
23:37:36  <Samu> i need a differentiator, a way to tell between funding, prospecting or random creation
23:37:52  <Samu> it's not easy without using _local_company
23:44:07  <Samu> and i have another problem with clearance checking for the cases when I'm demolishing a canal of a competitor
23:44:22  <Samu> obviously it must fail
23:44:57  <Samu> i need a 3-way comparison
23:46:26  <Samu> can't reduce it to a 2-way comparison :(
23:52:16  <Samu> can I use OWNER_WATER for prospecting?
23:54:59  <Supercheese> Water, water, everywhere
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