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Log for #openttd on 15th April 2015:
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02:16:43  <Supercheese> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1147193#p1147193
02:17:04  <Supercheese> Seemingly I should increment the savegame compatibility indicator
02:17:26  <Supercheese> short of trial and error, is there any way to determine when you should do so?
02:18:33  <Supercheese> also since the versioning is automatically controlled now I do not know what to set it to
02:41:43  <Supercheese> kamnet_: If you're around, you've got some a missing link around [url]Rostislav Alexeyev[/url] in https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1147196#p1147196
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02:42:51  <kamnet_> Yep, I just haven't had a chance to fix it yet, in the middle of podcasting. :D
02:46:21  <Supercheese> righto
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02:50:45  <kamnet_> Whee, podcast done. Now my computer has to settle down. Everything wanting ot crash
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03:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: as a rule of thumb, whenever you shuffle around stuff so existing things on the map get changed
03:41:50  <Eddi|zuHause> basically... every time unless you have proven it to be compatible
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06:11:34  <kamnet> Good morning
06:24:35  <planetmaker> moin
06:25:16  <planetmaker> Supercheese, re savegame compatibility: yes, possibly you should. It *should* stay savegame compatible, if you add new items (airports) only ever as the last item to the code
06:25:37  <Supercheese> Sadly I have added them in the middle, for ordering purposes
06:25:54  <Supercheese> I wanted to keep all Small airports together
06:26:00  <planetmaker> don't be much worried about it. Up the min_compatible_version to the current one and that's it
06:26:08  <Supercheese> that is what I did :)
06:26:12  <planetmaker> good :)
06:26:24  <planetmaker> savegame compatibility for newgrfs is overrated :)
06:26:36  <planetmaker> it's extremely easy to break and one should never rely on it anyway
06:26:38  <kamnet> Supercheese, I just found out your new bare water tile isn't protecting the seaplane airport
06:27:09  <Supercheese> Ah, I seem to have neglected once again to test in trunk
06:27:45  <kamnet> Or maybe it is and I just missed a spot
06:28:05  <kamnet> To be honest, it blends in TOO well. I can't tell there's a tile there
06:28:12  <Supercheese> well, that's the idea ;)
06:28:26  <Supercheese> I do need to test in trunk though
06:30:35  <Supercheese> Hmm yes it fails in trunk
06:30:45  <Supercheese> well then
06:31:36  <kamnet> Im' using r27213.
06:31:55  <kamnet> It seems to me that if you try to build it on straight water, it fails. If you dynamite it down to land and build on the land, then it works.
06:32:55  <Supercheese> Yes, I can confirm that
06:33:02  <Supercheese> I will need to make mention
06:33:36  <kamnet> What if you put some buoys on that tile? Or a flag
06:33:51  <Supercheese> at least the .gif I posted is still a valid scenario, although I should have shown the intermediate process
06:34:04  <Supercheese> which tile?
06:35:19  <Supercheese> ugh I may well need to make a new .gif
06:38:33  <Supercheese> bleeh
06:40:52  <kamnet> The bare water tile. Because it blends in with the surrounding water, I can't tell where I put my tile at.
06:41:34  <kamnet> Even if I make object tiles transparent, I still can't tell.
06:43:58  <kamnet> Also, the dock appears to have a water cycle hot pixel in it.
06:44:36  <kamnet> two of the.
06:45:41  <Supercheese> yes, that is intentional
06:46:08  <kamnet> Porquoi?
06:46:18  <Supercheese> splash effect against pillars
06:46:43  <kamnet> ahh
06:51:29  <kamnet> And apparently I can't build a dock next to the airport, either. It will flood it
06:52:24  <Supercheese> hmm yes, I am certain there are numerous consequences of applying workarounds to try and build on the ocean
06:52:54  <Supercheese> in the perfect world you could just plop the seaport down on water directly and be done with it
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07:21:51  <kamnet> Hm. I just notice there's a slight misalignment of the modern airport buildings in OpenGFX+ Airport Tiles
07:22:36  <Supercheese> the object set?
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07:23:22  <Gderckx> Hi there, can anyone tell me why Auto replace does not work for my 32Bpp vehicles?
07:24:04  <Gderckx> For example, I wanted to upgrade the 32BPP "TGV" to a 32BPP "Eurostar" but it just does not do the job, while other 8BPP vehicles do auto replace
07:24:54  <Gderckx> I really do not feel like manually replacing them
07:24:55  <Supercheese> what do you mean by "does not work"?
07:25:09  <Supercheese> Is the option available, but nothing happens when you choose it?
07:25:16  <Gderckx> the trains do go into the depots, but they are not replaced by the newer kind
07:25:17  <Supercheese> or do you seem to be missing the option entirely?
07:25:23  <Gderckx> yes indeed
07:25:23  <Supercheese> ah, hmm
07:25:54  <Gderckx> I have the windows and I have ticked the option to replace them but they just seem to refuse it
07:26:02  <kamnet> Supercheese: yeah the object set.
07:26:26  <Gderckx> it does not function when I use the main screen for all trains and not for the single ones in the depot as well....
07:28:35  <Supercheese> are you going for replacement or renewal?
07:28:42  <Gderckx> replacement
07:29:36  <Gderckx> I also wanted to change some 32Bpp wagons from the Pinapple set to the 32Bpp wagons from the normal set but nothing happened there as well/
07:29:50  <Gderckx> but my 8Bpp trams do auto replace (upgrade)
07:31:06  <Supercheese> hmm, no error messages pop up I assume, and you haven't disabled them
07:31:11  <Supercheese> the messages that is
07:33:15  <planetmaker> Gderckx, depots must be accessible and servicing enabled
07:33:47  <planetmaker> there is nothing which can make it work for one type of vehicle and not for another - other than "bad" route planning and orders
07:34:29  <Gderckx> what do you mean by "servicing enabled"?
07:34:38  <Gderckx> No error message showing up indeed
07:35:17  <planetmaker> if you play w/o breakdowns and w/o servicing at depots, there's little reason for the trains to go there
07:35:17  <Gderckx> The depots are accessible and the route planning is OK because the trains do go into the depots
07:36:02  <Gderckx> OK, no I have breakdowns shut off but the vehicles do service
07:36:04  <planetmaker> there likely is a very simple explanation. But people will only know that when they can look at your savegame.
07:36:23  <Gderckx> How am I able to hand you opver my saved game?
07:36:29  <Gderckx> I am happy to do so
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07:36:44  <planetmaker> openttd is not save for work, thus I can't look at it now. Usually our forums are a good place to ask
07:37:02  <Gderckx> Understandable
07:37:13  <Supercheese> planetmaker: NSFW? You must be using George's Long Vehicles ;)
07:37:34  <Gderckx> can I just upload a saved game in a new forum tread?
07:37:49  <Supercheese> yes
07:37:57  <Gderckx> OK, will do so
07:38:03  <planetmaker> :) well, maybe it's the wrong phrase. But not a good idea to fire it up at this time :P
07:39:04  <Supercheese> I knew what you meant, but NSFW is traditionally associated with pornographic material, and well there's only one thing in OTTD that really qualifies
07:39:18  <Supercheese> and even then only marginally
07:40:16  <planetmaker> ok :)
07:40:49  <planetmaker> and indeed the margin there is extremely tiny
07:42:42  <V453000> train porn ftw
07:45:00  <Supercheese> nah it's only buses
07:45:15  <Supercheese> and perhaps one obscure Toyland to Mars conversion .grf
07:47:29  <kamnet> You should add the docks to your newobject set
07:48:10  <Flygon_> I heard the word NSFW
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07:48:23  <kamnet> Naked pixel pushing going on, Flygon
07:48:31  <Flygon> Pixel pushing, you say
07:48:50  <kamnet> Bits are getting hard
07:49:23  <Supercheese> Ho, new cement plant appears right next to a clay pit I haven't yet serviced, what luck
07:50:19  <kamnet> Nice
07:50:43  <Supercheese> yeah I should add those docks
07:50:56  <Supercheese> but actually getting some playtime now :)
07:52:32  <V453000> unheard of :D
07:53:03  <kamnet> I know what else is needed. Boardwalks.
07:54:26  <Supercheese> Yes, MariCo has yet to add them
07:54:33  <Supercheese> somewhat surprisingly, it is an extensive set
07:55:45  <kamnet> Taking a closer look at the ekranoplan set, I'm kinda shocked at how crudely they're drawn.
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08:16:20  <Supercheese> Ugh, my spaghetti point-to-point routes are saturated
08:16:32  <Supercheese> the only networks I ever build sensibly are passenger networks
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08:39:39  <YILMAX> Hi aLL
08:42:05  <supermop> hello
08:43:32  <YILMAX> Does anybody speak Turkish .  And free to speak Turkish ?
08:50:40  <Xaroth|Work> this is an english speaking community I'm afraid
09:01:36  <YILMAX> Okay
09:01:54  <YILMAX> I Dont speak English so good
09:04:12  <YILMAX> I no longer have it translated google
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09:14:57  <Flygon> Damn
09:15:08  <Flygon> I was going to ask him how good my Turkish is
09:15:12  <Flygon> Gobble gobble
09:15:15  * Flygon runs away
09:16:23  * Supercheese uses pursuit. It's super effective!
09:16:51  <Flygon> Fuck :D
09:18:50  <dihedral> hello
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11:43:20  <fjb_mobile> Moin
11:44:08  <Flygon> Menta
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12:36:17  <kamnet> *ponders* How do I get myself on the access list for my nick?
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12:51:06  <peter1138> Identify.
12:51:35  <Flygon> /msg nickserv identify password
13:04:56  <kamnet> I know how to identify, I just keep getting errors that I'm not on the access list for the nickname.
13:05:28  <Xaroth|Work>  /msg nickserv help ?
13:05:39  <Xaroth|Work> there's an option somewhere to have you auto-identify based on your hostname
13:05:44  <Xaroth|Work> that's what its moaning about
13:05:49  <Xaroth|Work> it doesn't have your host on that list
13:05:54  <Xaroth|Work> i'd say ignore it and move on :P
13:08:28  <kamnet> Not moaning, just curious. And, yep, looks like I just need to get myself added to the list with the right magic words. http://docs.dal.net/docs/nsaccess.html
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13:14:14  <kamnet> But, looking over that, doesn't appear to really be that great an idea anyhow
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16:28:01  <Alberth> quak
16:28:09  <frosch123> hola :)
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16:43:18  <andythenorth> o/
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16:58:26  <Alberth> fierce firs movement :)
16:58:49  <andythenorth> o_O
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16:59:41  * andythenorth enjoys GarryG’s post
16:59:49  <andythenorth> nice player feedback
17:00:43  <Alberth> ah, yes it is
17:01:31  * andythenorth misses the days of happy players talking about nice things
17:01:36  <andythenorth> maybe they’re all in the screenshot forum
17:03:07  <Alberth> they're quite happy, but talking about screenshots mostly
17:03:33  * andythenorth deletes random Recycling Plant cargos
17:07:05  <andythenorth> hrm
17:07:11  <andythenorth> what should it produce?
17:07:17  <andythenorth> Manufacturing Supplies and 
?
17:07:21  <andythenorth> Scrap Metal?
17:07:23  <andythenorth> Chemicals?
17:07:55  <Alberth> chemicals?
17:08:11  <Alberth> scrap metal would be fine
17:08:43  * andythenorth counts sources of each
17:08:45  <Alberth> something wood-ish would also be possible, I guess
17:08:58  <andythenorth> handy industry chains view :)
17:09:19  <andythenorth> 4 sources of chemicals
17:09:22  <andythenorth> 1 source of scrap metal
17:09:43  <andythenorth> 8 consumers of chemicals
17:09:46  <andythenorth> 2 consumers of scrap metal
17:10:15  <Alberth> goods?
17:10:28  <Alberth> don't know if you have that
17:10:30  <andythenorth> I do
17:10:48  <andythenorth> I think a secondary (not tertiary) cargo is nice
17:11:05  <andythenorth> reality says scrap metal, but dunno about reality
17:11:39  <Alberth> reality has no recycle plants, mostly :p
17:14:56  <andythenorth> interesting link about large numbers
17:15:23  <andythenorth> 5 year old keeps asking what the biggest number is
17:15:36  <andythenorth> I’ve told him about infinity, but infinity isn’t a number
17:15:39  <andythenorth> which is interesting
17:15:48  <andythenorth> because then we can discuss what half of infinity is
17:17:59  <Alberth> don't think I ever worried about the biggest number at that age :)
17:19:09  <andythenorth> religion and death we also discuss quite a bit
17:23:26  <Alberth> smart dude already
17:24:19  <andythenorth> inquisitive
17:24:22  <andythenorth> dunno about smart yet
17:25:58  <andythenorth> 28/66
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17:28:51  <Alberth> smart is a matter of time :)
17:30:40  <andythenorth> hmm
17:30:45  <andythenorth> bloody grain mill
17:31:02  <Alberth> the building type, I hope
17:31:26  <andythenorth> yup
17:31:34  <andythenorth> special code to restrict layouts by date
17:31:41  <andythenorth> windmills allowed until 1900, not after
17:31:47  <Alberth> we can live without it, we have too many buildings already
17:32:39  <andythenorth> single-tile windmill looks silly with a train station next to it
17:33:11  <andythenorth> “but it seemed like a good idea at the time”
17:33:25  <Alberth> I agree, but a rectangular building doesn't look mill-ish
17:33:51  <planetmaker> enlarge the wind mill to 2x2 tiles
17:33:55  <Alberth> even though they look like that in reality
17:34:06  <andythenorth> two windmills per mill
17:34:07  <andythenorth> :P
17:34:11  <andythenorth> doesn’t solve the layouts problem
17:34:16  <planetmaker> then it's the same layout as... hm... dairy :P
17:34:42  <andythenorth> my current choices are: (1) make all industries check layout by date, for just one case that uses it (2) ditch this ‘feature'
17:34:44  <andythenorth> (3) something else
17:34:58  <andythenorth> templating enforces limits :P
17:35:30  <planetmaker> no need to use a template for every industry?
17:35:43  <Alberth> or the same one, for that matter :)
17:35:46  <planetmaker> it's not a fault to use templates generally but not using it in special cases
17:35:53  <andythenorth> agreed
17:35:56  <andythenorth> just seems clunky
17:36:00  <Alberth> make a derived template?
17:36:04  <andythenorth> such a pointless feature, just adds code bloat
17:36:21  <andythenorth> most of these silly ‘features’ are getting deleted
17:36:32  <Alberth> :(
17:37:23  <andythenorth> will be better
17:37:31  <andythenorth> most != all
17:38:00  <andythenorth> this one is worth preserving?
17:38:39  <planetmaker> I agree with the assessment that the 1x1 tile for the industry seems a bit small - especially when compared to a station
17:39:00  <andythenorth> what about ‘windmills look cool’ as a justification for it?
17:39:15  *** lobstar [~mccrabbym@94.231.249.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:39:18  <planetmaker> however... ^ is a good justification :)
17:39:43  <andythenorth> I’ll write an optional macro for it :P
17:40:09  <Alberth> andy, pm knows all about cool wind-mills (but more modern ones)
17:40:15  <kamnet> Windmills look awesome.
17:40:41  <kamnet> Windmills powered pre-revolution industries. We could use more of them.
17:40:50  <andythenorth> water mills :P
17:40:55  <kamnet> Yes.
17:41:18  <kamnet> Grain mills before 1900 should either be windmills or water mills that must be placed on a river.
17:41:25  <kamnet> See! Rivers *ARE* useful!
17:41:57  <andythenorth> the chances of that working well are miniscule
17:42:00  <andythenorth> plus it will break boats
17:42:09  <andythenorth> ‘your ship is lost'
17:42:10  <andythenorth> :(
17:42:32  <kamnet> Well obviously you'll need to expand the river if you want your boat to get around the mill.
17:42:52  <kamnet> But, code checks to build water mill. No water? Then build windmill.
17:43:14  <kamnet> But, that's really too much if your goal is to make FIRS more simple.
17:43:23  <Alberth> it won't look very well, probably
17:43:54  <andythenorth> too many edge cases with corners, slopes, players terraforming etc
17:43:58  <Alberth> the wheel has to stay at the mill tile
17:43:59  <glx> and will require a very specific landscape
17:44:06  <andythenorth> it was considered
17:44:10  <andythenorth> Dan roughed up a sprite
17:44:12  <kamnet> Just flatten the land.
17:44:16  <kamnet> auto level
17:44:37  <andythenorth> nah
17:44:42  <Alberth> let's just hard-code that, who needs hills :p
17:44:44  <planetmaker> andythenorth, the watermills are placed *adjacent* to rivers :)
17:44:47  <andythenorth> it was enough trouble getting ports to work
17:44:53  <glx> do it like ECS ;)
17:44:55  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that means drawing some sprites over a base tile
17:45:02  <andythenorth> for the water in the mill race
17:45:13  <andythenorth> eh it _could_ be done
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27238 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2015-04-15 19:45:15 +0200 )
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26  <andythenorth> I think the benefit is not great compared to the work for andythenorth
17:45:27  <DorpsGek> latin - 2 changes by Supercheese
17:45:35  <planetmaker> yes, of course water mills only for some slopes, the 4 major ones
17:45:48  * andythenorth would sooner have, e.g. replaced the Iron Mine sprites
17:46:01  <andythenorth> or fixed the ‘not enough industry IDs’ problem
17:46:19  <andythenorth> or finished Squid, Road Hog, etc :)
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18:04:17  <andythenorth> 29/66
18:04:17  <andythenorth> :P
18:05:03  <V453000> :)
18:05:07  <V453000> nice to see you making progress
18:05:11  <andythenorth> yair
18:05:14  <V453000> regardless what progress it is :P
18:05:15  <andythenorth> at the end of this
18:05:19  <andythenorth> nothing will have changed :P
18:05:23  <V453000> XD
18:05:48  <V453000> well I am also reworking ALL of RAWR 0.0.1 sprites on ALL levels - model, postproduction, all kinds of setups, to coding
18:05:53  <V453000> so it is in the end basically the same
18:05:58  <V453000> but BETTER obviozely :D
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18:08:21  <andythenorth> bigger, faster, stronger
18:08:22  <andythenorth> MOAR
18:08:29  <andythenorth> have you made MOAR yet? o_O
18:11:13  *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:13:19  <kamnet> I admire andythenorth and V45300. Cleaning up your code is good.
18:13:32  <kamnet> I barely have any code at all. Its probably horrible.
18:13:38  <andythenorth> or as we also call it ‘introducing new bugs'
18:14:25  <kamnet> but that is the purpose of coding. To seek out new bugs and new instabilities.
18:14:47  <kamnet> If you ain't breakin' it, you ain't tryin'.
18:20:53  <V453000> kamnet, RAWR isnt really a code, it is just stuff replacing sprites :)
18:21:08  <V453000> but the mass-rendering of sprites and their later editing is just pure insanity
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18:39:06  <Wolf01> o/
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18:40:32  <andythenorth> there
18:40:34  <andythenorth> a feature
18:40:40  * andythenorth animated the brewery flag
18:40:47  <andythenorth> big gameplay effect
18:41:06  <andythenorth> 30/66
18:41:14  <V453000> XD
18:41:36  <andythenorth> that brewery
18:41:38  <andythenorth> such pixels
18:41:43  <andythenorth> such drawing
18:41:44  <andythenorth> such time
18:43:56  <V453000> hell yeah
18:44:03  <V453000> I can render everything at the same time with just one click
18:44:10  <V453000> and let the pc torture itself for like a week XD
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18:45:42  <andythenorth> buildings I enjoy drawing
18:45:45  <andythenorth> vehicles not so
18:45:53  <andythenorth> ships I would gladly never touch again
18:46:26  <andythenorth> hrm
18:46:28  <V453000> XD
18:46:32  <andythenorth> breweries - currently locate near town
18:46:37  <andythenorth> is this worth doing?
18:46:37  <V453000> yeah shit that rotates is evil
18:46:45  <andythenorth> we decided dairies aren’t really town industries
18:46:49  <V453000> I guess it is nice but not necessary
18:48:07  <andythenorth> it’s not much work
18:48:13  <andythenorth> just don’t know if it’s helping gameplay
18:48:33  <andythenorth> can’t remember the original reasoning
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18:50:35  <V453000> it doesnt, it is just nice :)
18:50:51  *** Pereba [~UserNick@186.212.166.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:50:51  <V453000> question is whether it even makes sense to have brewery in town? idk where breweries are normally
18:50:58  <andythenorth> in town, irl
18:50:59  *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba
18:51:17  <Alberth> having some specific behavior bits is nice, imho
18:51:32  <andythenorth> I’ll port the current code
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19:07:42  * andythenorth does that
19:07:54  * andythenorth wonders if town zone would be better than town distance
19:07:55  <andythenorth> but eh
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19:22:13  <andythenorth> hurr, primary industries next I guess
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19:28:29  <kamnet> Lots of breweries started out on the edge of towns, but towns encroached and grew around them.
19:28:43  <kamnet> same with dairies.
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19:46:11  <andythenorth> is it nap time?
19:49:13  <V453000> NOPE
19:54:46  *** |Truth| [~|Truth|@c-73-177-155-170.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
19:56:02  <andythenorth> SLEEP
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20:01:18  *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
20:01:25  <DanMacK> Hey hey
20:06:41  * DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
20:08:39  *** kamnet is now known as kamnet|AFK
20:10:03  <frosch123> he fell asleep before he could leave the channel
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20:22:32  <andythenorth> lo DanMacK
20:24:38  <andythenorth> I wish Truth was less variable in presence
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20:27:14  <Supercheese> Today truth is with us... but what about tomorrow?
20:29:49  <Eddi|zuHause> truth is a lie
20:32:11  <andythenorth> ain’t that the truth
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20:36:48  <Supercheese> Truth... is transient, fleeting
20:37:07  <Supercheese> Its presence may well be an illusion
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21:00:51  <Wolf01> 'night
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