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Log for #openttd on 18th April 2015:
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00:00:09  *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
00:09:25  <kamnet|AFK> I was taking a nap 3 hours ago
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00:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> that probably doesn't help with bedtime :p
00:22:22  <kamnet|AFK> No. Probably not. LOL
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04:48:49  <supermop> yo
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05:46:04  <kamnet_> Hello supermop
05:47:02  <supermop> hows it goinng?
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06:13:09  <kamnet_> It's goign good. Sorry I was distracted, finishing up Daredevil
06:18:39  <kamnet_> Or, Episode 4 at least.
06:18:51  <kamnet_> I had enough violence for the night :D
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06:32:43  <supermop> hmm all ive done today is get a new power button on my phone
06:35:15  <andythenorth> kicking goals
06:35:59  <supermop> going to go buy some shapes for a snack, brb
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06:55:58  <andythenorth> o/
06:56:11  <Alberth> moin
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07:02:53  <Alberth> why doesn't anybody ever come up with the idea to change the newgrf with different introduction dates, rather than trying to change the daylength?
07:03:31  <V453000> because historical accuracy
07:03:32  <kamnet_> I was going to make that suggestion, but I didn't want to sound snarky.
07:03:54  <V453000> and to them it sounds like a simple task, just changing the date duh
07:05:08  <kamnet_> The reason I play with daylength is because it's ridiculous that it takes a week for a vehicle to travel from one side of a city to the other, or takes months for a single train run to go between locations.
07:05:56  <Alberth> I hardly ever look at the date, it's mostly irrelevant to me
07:06:33  <Alberth> just like how many zillions you have, it's not of interest at all
07:07:30  <Alberth> but ok, fair enough to want a saner date
07:07:53  <V453000> saner date ... not many people play a 100 year game anyway
07:08:08  <V453000> and 1920-2020 sounds quite sane to me
07:08:21  <kamnet_> Perhaps. Granted it's all meaningless anyhow. It's really not a date, its just ticks.
07:08:51  <V453000> if it defines which vehicles are available and many graphics like houses change over time, it is more than just ticks :)
07:09:53  <kamnet_> They're all just Dates, houses, vehicles, they're all just  tchotchke.
07:10:18  <V453000> xd
07:10:51  <kamnet_> You could strip it down to ticks, and a sprite of a box that moves across a grid.
07:11:27  <kamnet_> Qbert, it's like openttd.
07:12:40  <andythenorth> Alberth: I was going to reply suggesting newgrf
07:12:48  <andythenorth> but then I realised I was being a dick :(
07:13:40  <V453000> xd
07:13:54  <kamnet_> *laughs* Strange how that happens, isn't it?
07:14:49  <andythenorth> “I *only* want to change x”
07:14:57  <andythenorth> and to prove that I only want to change x
07:15:04  <andythenorth> I shall enumerate all the things I do not want
07:15:12  <andythenorth> “I would like just a coffee please”
07:15:37  <andythenorth> “Not tea, nor juice, nor biscuits, cake, fruit, pies, crisps, water, beer, wine”
07:15:58  <Alberth> it helps in establishing how different people have different views
07:16:00  <andythenorth> “Nor sandwiches, peppers, salad, chips, beans, fajitas”
07:16:24  <kamnet_> Stop, you're making me hungry!
07:16:39  <kamnet_> Now I want all those things
07:16:49  <Alberth> kamnet_ just wants all food :)    much easier to specify :p
07:17:25  * kamnet_ is a newfood hoarder. :D
07:17:25  <Supercheese> Goal: Deliver 0.2 tons of food to kamnet
07:17:44  <andythenorth> from a regression testing angle, it can be great to have a list of all that must be tested, and must not change
07:17:47  <Alberth> :O that's a lot
07:18:02  <Supercheese> well, he did want *all* the things
07:22:21  <andythenorth> hmm
07:22:30  * andythenorth wonders about daylength?
07:22:34  <andythenorth> what is it for?
07:24:08  <V453000> for making a game longer when you want it shorter
07:24:28  <kamnet_> Even if I like longer games? :-)
07:25:39  <V453000> everything
07:25:40  <V453000> everywhere
07:25:56  <andythenorth> but _why_ :(
07:26:02  <andythenorth> _why_ do these people keep asking?
07:26:21  * andythenorth adopts puzzled whiny voice
07:27:13  <V453000> I think one reason is servers which run for a long time with huge maps and only a little amount of players at the same time
07:27:23  <V453000> so it is nicer to drag the game out for XXXX years
07:27:27  <andythenorth> ugh
07:27:30  <V453000> which I think is reasonable use actually
07:27:35  <andythenorth> that sounds like a waste of life
07:27:40  <andythenorth> what’s wrong with pause?
07:28:03  <V453000> for example an international server with people from all aroudn the world, there is always at least 1 person online, but not many more
07:28:18  <kamnet_> I spent nearly four years playing the same game, and only getting 20 years in.
07:28:21  <V453000> so it never pauses and time runs fast for everybody cause they wake up and it is decades ahead
07:28:40  <V453000> when you play, normal speed is great
07:28:59  <V453000> when you are offline, it feels like most of the game has passed when you reconnect after ie 20 hours
07:30:31  <andythenorth> eh
07:30:31  <andythenorth> if they care enough
07:30:33  <andythenorth> they should make a newgrf
07:30:43  <andythenorth> and stop filling up the forums with multiple patches that don’t work
07:30:51  <andythenorth> it’s a pretty easy newgrf
07:31:17  <andythenorth> or they just turn on ‘vehicles never expire’
07:31:19  <andythenorth> as god intended
07:31:42  <andythenorth> daylength should be filed under ‘all these people are wrong'
07:38:17  <Supercheese> isn't there already a grf for the default vehicles or something?
07:38:27  <Supercheese> I recall delayed intro grf
07:38:52  <andythenorth> so the problem is solved?
07:38:56  <andythenorth> but still they keep asking?
07:39:00  * andythenorth is in a grumble
07:39:06  <andythenorth> bad andythenorth
07:40:26  <Alberth> I have a cement plant and a lime kiln next to each other in FIRS 1.4.4, is that intended?
07:40:31  <andythenorth> hmm
07:40:41  <andythenorth> does it seem good?
07:41:49  <Supercheese> well they both want coal and stone eh
07:41:50  <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/convenient.png
07:42:15  <Alberth> yep, was about to look for some coal :)
07:42:29  <andythenorth> you won’t be able to deliver to both from one station :)
07:42:40  * andythenorth decides that placement is ‘intended'
07:42:48  <andythenorth> because
not going to change it
07:42:50  <Alberth> hmm, good point :)
07:43:29  <andythenorth> you can muck about with last-hop feeders, but ugh
07:43:47  <Alberth> I'll build 2 stations, much easier
07:44:17  <andythenorth> maybe there is some complex conditional order you could use o_O
07:45:26  <Alberth> something like  load full stone; unload if accepted; unload if accepted; done?
07:45:46  <Supercheese> no conditional orders for partial unloads
07:46:17  <Alberth> cdist wouldn't know what to do with it anyway :)
07:46:37  <andythenorth> industries like this can be a good case for ‘load any available’
07:46:46  <andythenorth> when there are coal mine, quarry etc near each other
07:47:10  <andythenorth> (including a station refit)
07:47:18  <andythenorth> best use I’ve found for that type station refit
07:49:09  <andythenorth> Alberth: I wonder if BB is 1.0.0?
07:49:10  <Alberth> sounds like a good case
07:49:17  <andythenorth> BB works for me in my recent game
07:49:21  <andythenorth> no changes
07:50:26  <Alberth> #7521 fix would be nice, as would #7496
07:50:33  <Alberth> but minor issues
07:51:18  <Alberth> I quite like how it turned out
07:52:09  <andythenorth> simple ftw
07:56:55  <andythenorth> think I’ll get a few more games out of it before I get bored
08:00:07  <supermop> you
08:00:11  <supermop> *yo
08:01:02  <Alberth> it makes a different game, there is much less incentive to make a huge transport network
08:01:42  <andythenorth> I find my network is more dispersed
08:01:46  <andythenorth> and less congested
08:02:03  <Alberth> many small lines :)
08:02:18  <andythenorth> it’s not so good with FIRS Basic economies
08:02:31  <andythenorth> or rather, the economies are not so good with BB
08:03:04  <Alberth> had that problem with default tropical as well
08:03:23  <andythenorth> tried it with Full FIRS?
08:03:27  <Alberth> not sure what is wrong then
08:03:36  <andythenorth> nothing
08:03:37  <Alberth> working on full FIRS :)
08:03:43  <andythenorth> it makes Full FIRS relaxing, instead of insane
08:04:01  <Alberth> but with NARS for the first time, huge running costs :p
08:04:51  * andythenorth hasn’t played NARS for ages
08:04:54  <andythenorth> maybe I should
08:05:14  <Alberth> BB doesn't give you large money making goals
08:05:17  <Supercheese> Then you face the choice of old NARS and its BAD FEATURES or new NARS
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08:05:51  <Wolf01> hi hi
08:05:55  <Alberth> I have version 2.5
08:05:58  <Alberth> hi hi Wolf01
08:06:15  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES of course
08:07:09  <Supercheese> I'm actually using NARS 2.03 in my current game... because I went back and added in autorefit support
08:07:10  <Alberth> doodlebug seems buggy though
08:07:17  <Supercheese> *rimshot*
08:07:45  <Alberth> aren't the advertised running costs supposed to be the high running costs?
08:07:49  <Supercheese> so now I can have the NARS trains run around and carry freight on every leg of the journey
08:08:04  <Alberth> ah, nice
08:08:18  <Supercheese> I should probably post the override grf I made for that
08:08:20  <Alberth> don't do refit much
08:08:21  <supermop> do non-americans generally understand "rimshot soundeffect" as a joke punctuation?
08:08:29  <supermop> seems very idiomatic
08:08:32  <Supercheese> I hear tell that lots of folks still like NARS 2.03
08:08:44  <supermop> too many folks?
08:08:47  <Alberth> supermop:  I don't
08:09:12  <supermop> hooray my conjecture is validated
08:09:21  <Supercheese> Hmm yeah, it hadn't occurred to me but I guess the "make a joke, drummer hits 2 snares and cymbal" trope may be exclusive to America
08:09:58  <andythenorth> supermop: “rimshot” is definitely something else here
08:09:58  <supermop> i think it may come exclusively from old american late night shows rather than even american stand up or vaudeville comedy
08:10:02  <andythenorth> *definitely*
08:10:16  <Supercheese> also, apparently it is called a Sting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_%28percussion%29
08:10:20  <Supercheese> I never knew
08:10:34  <andythenorth> don’t look up the UK English for rimshot
08:10:38  <supermop> where the talk show has a band to respond to the host's jokes
08:11:00  <supermop> portmanteau of rimjob and cumshot?
08:11:17  <supermop> efficient use of language if so
08:11:19  <andythenorth> family channel
08:11:19  <Supercheese> one can only presume
08:11:37  <Supercheese> "In British English, boom boom is commonly used." wait what
08:11:49  <andythenorth> basil brush
08:12:03  <andythenorth> that is safe to look
08:12:13  <supermop> do they use kick bass instead of snare?
08:12:27  <andythenorth> yes
08:12:32  <andythenorth> for gags
08:13:08  <Supercheese> huh
08:14:36  <supermop> patch game to remove time and date
08:16:37  <supermop> choose a decade at game start and never leave it
08:16:48  <andythenorth> eddi once made me a patch
08:16:54  <andythenorth> reset the year at year end
08:16:58  <andythenorth> once
08:17:03  <andythenorth> second time, it rolled over
08:17:06  <andythenorth> worked well
08:17:18  <andythenorth> except for odd vehicle availablility characteristics :D
08:17:20  <Supercheese> so yearlength rather than daylength?
08:17:27  <Supercheese> or well, multiyearlength
08:17:38  <Supercheese> or... I don't even know
08:17:55  <supermop> seems sensible
08:18:10  <supermop> in that case id just as soon never see the month though
08:18:35  <andythenorth> but then you wouldn’t know why it’s snowing
08:18:41  <supermop> or display month as 'hour'
08:19:08  <supermop> and days as twos of minutes
08:19:24  <Supercheese> well TTD wouldn't even show you the day of the month unless the game was paused
08:19:35  <Supercheese> I'm not even sure OTTD has a setting for that
08:19:35  <supermop> really i want a way to timetable without any damn Februaries
08:20:45  <supermop> what about a sim city sort of thing whereby there is a fake time of day completely independent of displayed year or whatever
08:21:32  * andythenorth has to go
08:21:37  <Supercheese> we have a Nighttime OGFX, we could do day/night cycle
08:21:46  <andythenorth> if you could just finish FIRS recode by the time I’m back, fanks
08:21:56  <Supercheese> fangs
08:22:03  <andythenorth> beebul
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08:58:25  <Eddi|zuHause> <supermop> what about a sim city sort of thing whereby there is a fake time of day completely independent of displayed year or whatever <-- we've had this patch for like a decade now...
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09:27:21  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: is it still maintained?
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09:52:52  <Alberth> o/
09:58:07  <frosch123> hoi
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10:55:01  <andythenorth> o/
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12:27:06  <andythenorth> sun cat
12:45:38  <Alberth> pretty much all cats like sun
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13:01:06  <frosch123> likely depends on how close they get to it
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13:09:39  <supermop> inverse square law?
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13:24:18  <supermop> i want a random lloyds bank building generator
13:24:36  <supermop> wonder if that can be done in newgrf
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13:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't think any cat ever got much closer than 150 mio km
13:30:26  <andythenorth> galactic cat
13:31:16  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: +/- 1% :)
13:32:00  <Eddi|zuHause> let's say 10% to be safe :)
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13:46:08  <andythenorth> hmm
13:46:20  <andythenorth> wondering if I should automate FIRS incompatible industry checks
13:46:36  <andythenorth> look for mappings of accepted / provided cargo
13:48:24  <andythenorth> currently maintained manually
13:48:29  <andythenorth> and somewhat inconsistent
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14:05:21  <andythenorth> is ‘nearby_cluster’ mostly a tautology?
14:05:24  * andythenorth wonders aloud
14:12:00  * andythenorth labels something ‘list_of_arbitrary_numbers'
14:12:09  <andythenorth> dunno what they do :)
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14:30:56  <andythenorth> 440 arable farms in 3 clusters
14:31:15  <andythenorth> how do I screenshot the minimap? :P
14:31:51  <V453000> just ctrl S like anything else doesnt work<
14:32:02  <V453000> other than normal printscreen into photoshop ofc :D
14:36:37  <andythenorth> I quite often want the whole minimap
14:36:48  <andythenorth> but I have a 13” laptop screen
14:36:58  <andythenorth> I guess I could put it into stupid retina resolution
14:39:13  <frosch123> in the past X servers used to supply a big virtual screen, and the real screen showed a part of it, with mouse-panning at the edges
14:39:21  <frosch123> i wonder though whether anyone ever used that
14:42:36  <andythenorth> VNC does similar
14:42:47  <andythenorth> hmm
14:42:53  <andythenorth> when the only industry is arable farm
14:42:56  <andythenorth> clustered
14:43:02  <andythenorth> the minimap looks neat
14:43:13  <andythenorth> two-thirds of the map is neatly spaced farms
14:43:17  <andythenorth> the rest is empty
14:43:52  <andythenorth> because it’s an island map, the clusters are restricted by island :P
14:45:43  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7278/solo_clusters.png
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15:36:03  <andythenorth> hmm
15:36:06  <andythenorth> arable farms on snow
15:36:10  * andythenorth is not done yet
15:37:20  <Alberth> it makes frozen vegetables?
15:40:43  <andythenorth> apparently
15:41:42  <Sylf> I like frozen oranges.
15:49:54  <andythenorth> hmm
15:50:03  <andythenorth> what’s the empty string I can return to text cbs?
15:50:08  <andythenorth> I thought I saved it
15:50:18  <andythenorth> maybe logs know
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15:52:59  <andythenorth> ha ha, logs
15:53:05  <andythenorth> usually that takes longer
16:00:03  <andythenorth> hmm
16:00:05  <andythenorth> CB_RESULT_NO_TEXT is not defined
16:00:16  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
16:00:30  <andythenorth> strings have to be strings
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16:10:29  <Alberth> STR_EMPTY  :
16:13:18  *** ohaz [~oftc-webi@ipb21ade39.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd
16:14:00  <ohaz> Hey guys, how can I save my game on a dedicated server via rcon? using rcon <password> save <filename> just shows me "-Save the current game. Usage: 'save <filename>'
16:14:38  <Alberth> add quotes around the  save <filename> part  probably
16:14:49  <Alberth> at least that's a regular question/anser here :)
16:14:53  <Alberth> *answer
16:15:18  <ohaz> ah, that works, thanks :D
16:16:32  <Alberth> yw :)
16:17:20  <andythenorth> Alberth: how’s your game? o_O
16:20:26  <Alberth>  http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/ReepoolTransportBB, 1935-10-12.sav    just 20 years running
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16:31:08  <andythenorth> one big route
16:33:02  <andythenorth> I like the island in the north
16:33:46  <Alberth> re-organized the steel factory recently
16:34:14  <andythenorth> doodlebugs :P
16:34:16  <andythenorth> are not good
16:34:39  <Alberth> they're quite bad :)
16:34:42  * andythenorth should play NARS 2
16:34:56  <Alberth> long stone route is a bit of an accident
16:35:07  <Alberth> I had large parts of the route already
16:35:47  <andythenorth> how many goals have you completed?
16:35:59  * andythenorth wonders about an optional global goal: “Complete n goals”
16:36:03  <Alberth> no idea, 10-15 or so?
16:36:11  <andythenorth> maybe global goal is terrible idea
16:36:15  <andythenorth> not really the point
16:36:31  <Alberth> as you can see I am losing about 2/3 of my income to running costs
16:37:04  <andythenorth> pikka makes you work ;)
16:37:34  <Alberth> yeah, it's quite neatly balanced imho
16:37:52  <Alberth> although I only use the very cheapest engines
16:37:54  <andythenorth> road hog is much more generous :P
16:38:00  <andythenorth> 220k income, 33k cost
16:38:14  <Alberth> all the more expensive ones are not economical with BB
16:38:57  <Alberth> bit of a waste
16:39:37  <Alberth> oh, it has an option "reduce vehicle costs" :)
16:40:26  <andythenorth> electrify!
16:40:54  <andythenorth> I find there’s far too many big steam engines in 1920s
16:41:17  <andythenorth> there are 6 introduced within ~15 years
16:41:32  <andythenorth> and the stats overlap rather
16:41:44  <andythenorth> same with diesels in 1960s
16:41:47  <Alberth> if you sort on running costs, it doesn't help much
16:41:49  <andythenorth> but pikka knows all this :)
16:41:58  <andythenorth> hence pineapple
16:42:53  <andythenorth> hmm
16:42:57  <andythenorth> maybe we need daylength?
16:43:58  <Alberth> newgrf authors should refrain from giving the user too many engines, imho
16:44:19  <Alberth> but it's easy and tempting to add more engines
16:45:19  <andythenorth> having to draw them reduces the temptation :P
16:45:21  <Alberth> you could spread engines over the different climates for example
16:45:28  <andythenorth> or rosters :P
16:45:45  <Alberth> something like that
16:48:26  <Alberth> but likely, different users have different wishes here
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17:25:45  <kirjs_______> Hi, I'm trying to find 'autorenew' option, but advanced settings are gone
17:25:52  <kirjs_______> any idea where it could be now?
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17:26:42  <kirjs_______> nevermind, got it
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17:31:04  <fjb> Moin
17:34:13  <Alberth> moin
17:45:41  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27239 /trunk/src/lang (latin.txt lithuanian.txt) (2015-04-18 19:45:30 +0200 )
17:45:42  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:43  <DorpsGek> latin - 3 changes by Supercheese
17:45:44  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 92 changes by Stabilitronas
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17:53:32  <DanMacK> Hey all
17:57:15  <Taede> ello
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20:42:52  <Wolf01> http://twentytwowords.com/what-happens-when-a-trains-brakes-are-on-but-one-engine-keeps-going%E2%80%A6/
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20:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you get dents in the rails.
20:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm pretty sure we had this one before)
20:45:26  <Wolf01> sure, the post date is 2011
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20:59:33  <andythenorth> hmm 2880 bags of mail on this ship
20:59:35  <andythenorth> how rare
20:59:40  <andythenorth> nvm
21:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like sectors on a floppy
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21:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause> remember when games came on like 15 floppy disks?
21:03:06  <Eddi|zuHause> now you go on steam, buy a game, and have it playable in like 2 minutes
21:03:56  <andythenorth> not on my mac :(
21:04:03  <andythenorth> more like, buy a game, wonder why it doesn’t work
21:06:42  * andythenorth redesigns Squid
21:06:46  <andythenorth> I guess that will be version 3
21:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> so call it fish 4?
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21:42:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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