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Log for #openttd on 4th May 2015:
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02:16:59  <JezK> o/ hello!
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03:03:31  <JezK> playing with cargodist is fun! but how do you enable the overlay in the main map?
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04:16:47  <kamnet> Morning all
04:17:12  <JezK> morning!
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06:37:03  <Flygon> Whelp
06:37:08  <Flygon> I've gone from having a GPU run at 99c
06:37:13  <Flygon> Down to having it run at 27c
06:37:18  <Flygon> All in the space of 15 minutes
06:37:23  <Flygon> It's GPU fans fell off. Somehow.
06:40:19  <V453000> you should create a social media page for your CPU so it has constant audience of fans
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06:45:07  <andythenorth> o/
06:45:10  <V453000> hy
06:45:55  <andythenorth> is FIRS defaul primary production a bit low?
06:45:59  <andythenorth> default *
06:46:08  <V453000> idk, havent played it in a while
06:46:11  <andythenorth> maybe it’s just some industries
06:46:15  <V453000> but it is probably fine
06:46:23  * andythenorth wonders if production is a parameter thing
06:46:33  * andythenorth hates solving problems iwth parameters
06:46:39  <V453000> xd
06:47:50  <andythenorth> hmm
06:48:02  <andythenorth> coastal distance check for water based industries
06:48:27  <andythenorth> reason for that is...?
06:48:54  <JezK> hi, does anyone know how to activate the map overlay for cargodist?
06:49:24  <JezK> https://wiki.openttd.org/images/4/4c/Cargodist-overlays.png like the one shown in the main view here
06:49:38  <JezK> i can see it in the minimap but it's so tiny it's hard to see the detail
06:49:42  <supermop> ive never found it to be low andythenorth
06:49:55  <andythenorth> probably just a few industries
06:50:00  <andythenorth> dredging site seems low
06:50:07  <andythenorth> and they don’t cluster
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06:54:06  <Flygon> <Flygon> Is it stupid to use blu-tack to temp. fix the GPU fans until I can get replacement fans?
06:54:41  <andythenorth> nah, it’s heat-proof
06:55:12  <andythenorth> definitely won’t melt
06:55:38  <andythenorth> and it won’t slip or deform if the fans have a slight vibration
06:55:46  <Flygon> Alright
06:55:50  <andythenorth> also the GPU is expendable no?
06:55:54  <Flygon> I was worried it might be dangerous in some way
06:55:55  <Flygon> Well
06:56:08  <Flygon> Expendable in such a way that I know it's a lemon regardless, but I'm utterly broke
06:56:16  <Flygon> So I gotta MacGyver it back to life
06:56:32  <andythenorth> sometimes andythenorth is not wholly telling the truth
06:58:32  <Flygon> Well
06:58:33  <Flygon> andy
06:58:39  <Flygon> There's two directions for you, really
06:58:41  <Flygon> Friend for life
06:58:44  <Flygon> Or enemy for life
06:58:49  <Flygon> If this works
06:58:54  <Flygon> I'mma like you even more :P
06:59:24  <andythenorth> I wouldn’t be using blu-tack personally
06:59:56  <Flygon> I'll probably just have to buy new fans for 
07:00:06  <Flygon> And wait for a friend to have another spare GPU x.x
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07:07:04  <Flygon> andythenorth: Seems to work so far
07:07:14  <Flygon> I can keep the PC in power positon without shit falling off
07:07:46  <Flygon> tower*
07:07:53  <andythenorth> good luck
07:08:01  <andythenorth> ;)
07:08:19  <Flygon> Yeah
07:08:24  <Flygon> I'm gonna need it for a month and a half
07:08:36  <Flygon> The time required to get the spare money, then shipping for new fans
07:09:27  <Flygon> Okay
07:09:34  <Flygon> Now resetting the clock speeds from basement minimums
07:09:39  <Flygon> Effectively doubling them...
07:09:48  <Flygon> So... manufacturer recommended settings now
07:10:01  <Flygon> From 27c to 32c... not bad.
07:10:18  <Flygon> And RO isn't lagging whenever a new object comes on screen
07:10:19  <Flygon> SOo... yeah
07:12:32  <Flygon> Hmm
07:12:36  <Flygon> Fans are vibrating a tiny bit
07:12:43  <Flygon> Not surprised
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07:14:22  <Flygon> Okay
07:14:29  <Flygon> Now just 33c with case on and RO running
07:29:51  <kamnet> JezK: go to the map menu, select Cargo Flow Legend. Select the cargoes you want to see displayed.
07:31:56  <JezK> kamnet, ahh i didn't realise the map menu dropped down
07:31:57  <JezK> thanks!
07:32:12  <kamnet> Many of the menus drop down if you click and hold
07:36:30  <JezK> sneaky!
07:41:21  <kamnet> *sighs* I wish FooBar would come back.
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07:51:24  <supermop> andythenorth: dredge is fine low
07:51:42  <supermop> otherwise you end up with way too much to haul away
07:55:04  <argoneus> eyoo
08:00:40  <andythenorth> urgh
08:00:53  <andythenorth> nml is failing on code that isn’t in the source
08:00:55  <andythenorth> I hate this
08:01:14  <andythenorth> the code in the traceback doesn’t exist in firs.pnml
08:01:18  <andythenorth> firs.nml *
08:03:13  * andythenorth plays ‘hunt the include'
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08:34:36  <kamnet> Hunt the Wumpus
08:40:01  <Alberth> sounds familiar
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08:46:18  <FLHerne> Is there a convenient API to get existing grfids from Bananas, other than scraping them off the newgrf list?
08:46:38  <FLHerne> The latter doesn't seem particularly hard, but might break if the site gets updated
08:48:25  <Alberth> how is that useful to do?
08:50:28  <Alberth> (there is no such api afaik)
08:52:11  <Alberth> and it's also quite useless, the list is not complete, and never will be
08:52:58  <Alberth> hmm, there is a section with reserved ids in newgrfspecs I think
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09:00:54  <andythenorth> I can’t remove my ‘reservations’ from that :(
09:01:03  <andythenorth> owing to my wiki creds don’t work
09:01:38  <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action8#Used_ranges
09:01:58  <andythenorth> I don’t want all those ranges :(
09:02:53  <kamnet> Auction them.
09:03:05  <andythenorth> free to collect
09:03:09  <andythenorth> I never asked for them
09:03:16  <andythenorth> the whole concept is daft
09:03:27  <andythenorth> and I apparently have the largest number of reservations :(
09:03:56  <FLHerne> Alberth: There's no actual comprehensive list of used grfids
09:03:59  <kamnet> What ranges do you want?
09:04:29  <FLHerne> But the Bananas one is about as close as it's likely to get, since the vast majority of used grfs are on there
09:04:31  <andythenorth> I don’t want any ranges
09:04:43  <andythenorth> it’s an obsolete concept
09:05:14  <kamnet> All gone?
09:05:16  <FLHerne> I've gotten totally distracted and am trying to write a GUI NML frontend
09:05:32  <FLHerne> So a 'this grfid is already in use' warning seems like a useful feature
09:05:47  <andythenorth> historically there may be some old grfs of mine out there with earlier grfids
09:05:53  <andythenorth> from the time when incrementing the grfid per-release was standard
09:05:54  <FLHerne> And is a lot easier to implement than all the actually-useful important ones :P
09:06:24  <Alberth> you won't be able to publish your grf if the id is already used
09:06:30  * andythenorth counts 8 grfids on his fingers
09:06:49  <andythenorth> CHIPS, HEQS, FISH, Squid, FIRS, Termite, Road Hog, Iron Horse
09:06:53  <andythenorth> did I miss anything? :|
09:07:02  <Alberth> and you're missing the entire simuscape collection, and a load of very old grfs
09:07:56  <kamnet> Andythenorth: Done
09:08:24  <FLHerne> That applies to your "won't be able to publish..." comment just as much :P
09:08:29  <andythenorth> kamnet: thanks :)
09:08:35  <andythenorth> @calc 1966323-8
09:08:35  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1966315
09:08:43  <kamnet> Didn't even realize I had an account there, but, woot.
09:08:48  <andythenorth> I didn’t need that many IDs, really
09:08:49  <andythenorth> really
09:09:29  <FLHerne> I can't see any possible way to reliably detect every collision, but I don't see why that should make detecting most of them a waste of time
09:10:06  <Alberth> copy the reserved ids from newgrfspecs, and you're done
09:10:15  <kamnet> Rubidium was apparently the one who put those on the list.
09:10:23  <andythenorth> I think he was trolling :P
09:10:28  <andythenorth> probably trolling me
09:10:53  <FLHerne> That list is _definitely_ not comprehensive :P
09:12:15  <Alberth> compared to coding problems for most nml users, the grfid is a non-issue :)
09:13:36  <andythenorth> it’s the most ridiculous storm-in-teacup :P
09:13:44  <andythenorth> it’s not even bikeshedding
09:14:27  <andythenorth> at least in bikeshedding, people waste their time talking about a non-issue that they understand
09:14:35  <andythenorth> instead of one that they don’t understand
09:14:38  * andythenorth grumbles
09:15:17  <Alberth> do nicer things instead, like adding a feature to firs :)
09:16:15  <kamnet> Copying from BaNaNaS makes sense becuase that's the vast majority of the most up-to-date NewGRFs. There aren't many actively updated NewGRFs that isn't on BaNaNaS.
09:18:20  <FLHerne> Alberth: It's a tool for creating newgrfs, sort of like a more-broken and probably never-to-be-finished grfmaker clone
09:18:53  <FLHerne> Alberth: The idea is to have it check the user's grfID choice as soon as they enter it, and then at least it'll reduce the possibility of getting conflicting IDs
09:20:02  <FLHerne> And yes, I'm mostly worrying about it because it's a good way to procrastinate without doing the actually-hard bits...
09:21:38  <Alberth> most grfmaker usage is out of cold-water fear
09:22:17  <Alberth> you could easily make a text template that can be filled in, and cover most use
09:22:39  <FLHerne> Yep. OTOH, people keep using it despite being (a) incomprehensible anyway and (b) unmaintained/strongly disrecommended for years :P
09:23:04  <Alberth> people are just scared to death by a text editor
09:23:05  <FLHerne> Mostly I just want to get the hang of PyQt and this seems like a fun thing to do
09:25:35  <Alberth>  I don't know how you use nml at a windows machine, but doing that from a gui could be a big step
09:26:03  <Alberth> probably combined by getting rid of the crazy cpp requirement
09:26:13  <Alberth> (and make)
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09:40:40  <titch> hello
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09:42:28  <Alberth> hihi
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09:43:29  <Johnnei> You scared him/her!
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09:43:53  <titch> hello. need a bit of help with the map gen. i have it set to "Terrain Type: Very Flat, Smoothness: Very Smooth, Sea Level: Very low" but i still seem to be getting maps full of water on the "Temperate" landscape. any help regarding this would be useful as i hate spending all my money early on on changing the land layout
09:45:03  <titch> i have version 1.5.0
09:48:46  <Alberth> try setting the water level to custom, eg 1%
09:49:36  <Alberth> but your very flat world is difficult for controlling amount of water
09:49:53  <Alberth> a small shift in height gives lots more water
09:51:53  <Alberth> your goal is to a small amount of water, or none at all?
09:52:12  <Alberth> +have
09:53:31  <Alberth> an alternative can be to make a heightmap, and use that
09:53:46  <Alberth> or make a nice map in the editor
09:55:17  <titch> cheers. see what happens
09:58:51  <Alberth> as a suggestion, you may want to try not changing the landscape in the game one day. It makes building a network much more challenging / interesting
09:59:59  <Alberth> in particular with a somewhat less flat map :)
10:14:22  <titch> true... but i guess im still trying to learn how to best do this game... im a noob xD
10:17:07  <Alberth> that's fine, when I started playing, I was leveling everything too :)
10:17:19  <Alberth> have fun figuring out what you like best :)
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12:38:52  <kamnet> GAH. Very much dislike youtube right now.  "Do No Evil", unless others can profit from your works.
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15:51:57  <FLHerne> Why are there separate properties 'running_cost_base' and 'running_cost_factor'? Surely they just combine to give a single value anyway?
15:52:16  <FLHerne> If it's a legacy thing, which is it recommended to use?
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15:53:56  <frosch123> running_cost_base is an enum
15:54:06  <frosch123> you can set it to train engine, wagon, road vehicle, etc
15:54:20  <frosch123> running_cost_factor is the actual thing for setting the price
15:54:43  <FLHerne> Ok, so I'll just ignore the former :P
15:54:52  <frosch123> essentially running_cost_base specifies which setting in the basecost newgrf should affect your vehicles
15:55:23  <FLHerne> Actually, steam/diesel/electric might matter
15:55:34  <FLHerne> But probably not
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16:05:54  <Terkhen> hello
16:07:31  <kamnet> o/
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16:17:35  <andythenorth> FLHerne: how are you making your grf making thing?
16:17:46  <FLHerne> Messily...
16:18:07  <FLHerne> It's pretty much a 'can I make something in pyqt' exercise
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16:19:26  <FLHerne> So far I've got it a form to create the grf block, and a road-vehicle table that doesn't work yet
16:20:37  <andythenorth> you’re outputting nml?
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16:21:04  <FLHerne> Yes
16:21:12  <FLHerne> At the moment, very hackily with format strings
16:21:21  <andythenorth> are you writing nml out as strings directly from the form submit?
16:21:32  <FLHerne> I have vague schemes to try and use nml's ast directly, but not yet
16:21:33  <andythenorth> or do you have some intermediate classes for the vehicles/tiles etc
16:22:10  <FLHerne> Intermediate classes with sanity checking
16:22:27  <FLHerne> Of course, it's likely to output gibberish anyway because it's me writing it
16:22:57  <andythenorth> I hate trying to understand other people’s code (at least, when it’s not a nice module by sane people)
.but
16:23:09  <andythenorth> Road Hog et al are all driven by python classes
16:23:29  <andythenorth> FWIW
16:24:10  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/road_vehicle.py
16:24:50  <FLHerne> Hm, I should look at that
16:24:59  <andythenorth> possibly the most useful lesson not to re-learn the hard way is vehicles vs. consists
16:25:15  <andythenorth> you need to be able to create consists for trains / rvs (articulated vehicles in both cases)
16:25:29  <andythenorth> and there are many gotchas with handling properties for consists
16:25:42  <andythenorth> so it’s easier to always have a consist for every vehicle, and specify n units
16:25:48  <andythenorth> where n is 1-[limit]
16:26:09  <andythenorth> a lot of the Road Hog code is obviously specific to that grf + that templating language
16:26:28  <andythenorth> have you got a templater?
16:26:33  <andythenorth> %s is not a good one :P
16:27:41  <FLHerne> Not yet, the whole thing is a big pile of broken hacks...
16:28:30  <andythenorth> python String templating is ok
16:28:37  <andythenorth> and included in standard library
16:28:47  <andythenorth> but lacks loops or other features you’d want in a templater
16:29:18  <andythenorth> I use chameleon, but it’s an odd choice for the problem, being designed for html/xml
16:31:29  * andythenorth wonders what genshi is like
16:32:37  <andythenorth> mako looks pleasing http://www.makotemplates.org
16:33:10  <FLHerne> New-style python format strings are nice in every respect except using {} :P
16:33:39  <FLHerne> I guess I'd find myself using % in NML occasionally too though
16:36:02  <andythenorth> ideally the syntax of the templater doesn’t conflate with the syntax of nml
16:37:15  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/templates/road_vehicle_properties.pynml
16:39:17  <FLHerne> You do seem to have written most of the code I need ;P
16:39:38  <Alberth> FLHerne: template strings use $  https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html?highlight=string#template-strings
16:39:59  <FLHerne> I should definitely spend some time seeing how much of it I can steal
16:40:26  <andythenorth> FLHerne: the main issue will be unpicking what you don’t need
16:40:37  <andythenorth> it’s very hard to adapt one highly specific thing to another :P
16:40:53  <andythenorth> which is why I steal Eddi|zuHause’s concepts from CETS, but not the code
16:40:55  <andythenorth> :P
16:43:47  <FLHerne> Well, let's see if I can get basic RVs with nice simple properties working first :P
16:44:09  <FLHerne> Callbacks and switches and articulation and all the insane things people do with trains can wait (probably forever tbh)
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16:46:24  <andythenorth> cb handling is a remarkably hard problem to solve in a UI
16:48:51  <FLHerne> I have a buggy mess of a flowchart lib lurking somewhere, might try redoing that
16:49:01  <andythenorth> if I was building it, I’d built it as a web service
16:49:01  <andythenorth> no binaries to distribute
16:49:01  <andythenorth> no platform-specific bugs
16:49:01  <andythenorth> :P
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16:49:25  <andythenorth> hmm web service would want to be stateless
16:49:29  <FLHerne> Browsers are platforms in their own right...
16:50:14  <FLHerne> I got persuaded to fiddle with some CSS for someone, and of course it kept looking different depending on browser/version/moon phase
16:50:44  <andythenorth> that happens
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16:50:58  <andythenorth> but it wouldn’t affect the nml output :P
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18:02:50  <kamnet> GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
18:12:12  *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C322A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
18:14:56  <Supercheese> You don't say.
18:16:38  *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:18:38  <FLHerne> GAAH?
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19:05:01  <kamnet> yeah.
19:07:40  <FLHerne> What was so GAAAH-worthy?
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19:30:10  <Wolf01> o/
19:30:34  <andythenorth> \o
19:30:36  <andythenorth> o
19:30:37  <andythenorth> o/
19:30:51  <andythenorth> is it done yet?
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19:31:49  <Wolf01> who? what? where? when? why?
19:35:04  <FLHerne> If that, nope
19:35:32  <FLHerne> Fiddling with pointless drag-and-drop stuff still...
19:39:04  <andythenorth> hmm
19:39:10  <andythenorth> drag-and-drop articulated vehicle maker
19:39:29  <andythenorth> have you got save-load yet? :P
19:40:06  <FLHerne> No, of course not. Who needs that?
19:40:41  <andythenorth> ha
19:40:52  <andythenorth> just use pickle :P
19:40:56  <andythenorth> and file.write()
19:41:02  <andythenorth> what could go wrong? o_O
19:41:11  <FLHerne> I'm trying to learn how to use the toolkit, and incidentally getting something that I can claim is supposed to be a grf editor :P
19:41:30  * andythenorth wonders what the file format should be
19:41:32  <andythenorth> json?
19:41:34  <andythenorth> or nml?
19:41:45  <andythenorth> if you stick to pure nml, you are very limited on metadata
19:41:49  <andythenorth> json it is then
19:41:56  <frosch123> Wolf01: calm down, full moon will go down again
19:42:00  <FLHerne> Loading directly from nml would be neat, but I doubt I can make it work anytime soon
19:42:11  <andythenorth> importing nml is one thing
19:42:19  <andythenorth> but you might not want your storage tied to nml
19:42:34  <andythenorth> you can ‘import’ nml by borrowing the nmlc parser
19:42:50  <andythenorth> but then you won’t have it in a structure matching your program
19:43:01  <Wolf01> just like my graphic coworker today "I need the uploaded file extension to show the right icon on the download link" me: >_> he: "what could go wrong?"
19:44:01  <Wolf01> I need a better way to do that, it's not some stuff to do in the template itself
19:46:48  <Terkhen> good night
19:46:52  <Wolf01> night
19:47:27  <andythenorth> Wolf01: just map MIME type to icon?
19:47:46  <andythenorth> it’s not foolproof, but eh, it’s all your browser is doing in its download manager probably
19:47:50  <Wolf01> not in a foreach in the template
19:48:09  <andythenorth> dunno, depends on your templating language etc :)
19:48:26  <andythenorth> this is a user upload?
19:48:30  <Wolf01> yeah
19:48:35  <andythenorth> oh eh
19:48:41  <andythenorth> sounds boring :)
19:48:55  <andythenorth> I just use the file icon from font-awesome or such :P
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19:49:17  <andythenorth> you haven’t uploaded at the point where you need to render it?  This is some JS magic?
19:49:24  <andythenorth> or it has been uploaded successfully already?
19:49:33  <Wolf01> already uploaded
19:49:37  <V453000> andythenorth: wise to make RVs longer than 1 tile?
19:49:44  <V453000> how do they behave in stations?
19:49:57  <Wolf01> that's why I need some more control on the logic side, templates shouldn't do logic
19:50:02  <V453000> 8/8 best? eventually 16/8
19:50:15  <V453000> tramz shall be 32/8
19:50:42  <andythenorth> V453000: can’t be more than 8/8 unless you fuck around with articulated
19:50:51  <andythenorth> and if it’s articulated, just make it articulated
19:50:55  <V453000> ofc, 8+ = articulation
19:51:11  <andythenorth> there are few things in HEQS that are long than 8/8 in the sprite, but they glitch: tunnles, bridges
19:51:14  <andythenorth> tunnels *
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19:51:54  <andythenorth> Wolf01: dunno, if it was python, I’d have some list or dict from the view and iterate over that for the uploaded files
19:52:07  <andythenorth> list of tuples or whatever
19:52:55  <V453000> yez, glitches are meh
19:52:57  <Alberth> V453000: awesome work on the nuts maglev, such colourful graphics!
19:53:10  <V453000> :) thanks ... the CC is super bad though
19:54:03  <Alberth> livestock, grain, and steel  just splendid to combine in a train
19:54:07  <Wolf01> we just use a MVC pattern, I have a list of files which should at least provide SplFileInfo stuff and other shorthand methods without having to write them in the template
19:54:48  <V453000> yarr :P
19:56:39  * andythenorth uses the not-quite-MVC pattern that is prevalent in some python apps :P
19:56:47  <andythenorth> where the view is also the controller
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19:57:04  <andythenorth> unless it delegates it to other classes, in which case it’s just a view :P
20:00:50  <andythenorth> Wolf01: in your world, does view = template?
20:00:58  <Wolf01> yes
20:01:00  <andythenorth> ah
20:01:38  <andythenorth> and controller is [PHP, Perl, .net, something]
20:01:51  <Wolf01> all PHP
20:02:02  <andythenorth> but PHP also lives in the templates?
20:02:45  <Wolf01> I would like to use twig for the template, but for now it is too much work, also the graphic designer should learn the new thing
20:03:13  <andythenorth> and you don’t want to spam your template with logic
20:03:48  <Wolf01> just the basic ifs and foreaches to print stuff :P
20:04:14  <andythenorth> yeah
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20:04:22  * andythenorth has been there and bought that T-shirt
20:04:32  <andythenorth> templates fetching objects directly from DB
20:04:37  <andythenorth> eh, let’s not do that anymore :P
20:05:13  <Wolf01> my website still does that, but it was plain html ported to php
20:05:22  <andythenorth> we learn
20:05:24  <andythenorth> by our mistakes
20:05:59  <Wolf01> I would like to learn more
20:06:38  <Wolf01> I still make stupid mistakes every now and then
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21:02:13  <FLHerne> Sanity check - will this actually work? http://i.imgur.com/uKXmzh5.png
21:02:36  <FLHerne> Never mind the random ordering
21:03:09  <FLHerne> s/work/be useful/
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21:16:29  <TartarusMkII> Hello everyone. I see in the advanced settings, options for AI players. How can I use these?
21:20:19  <FLHerne> TartarusMkII: You'll need some AIs
21:20:37  <TartarusMkII> Can you tell me any more about that/.
21:20:40  <TartarusMkII> ?
21:20:48  <FLHerne> Go to AI/GS settings, click Check Online Content, grab some AIs
21:21:19  <FLHerne> Then increase the number of competitors (same window) and pick AIs or leave them random
21:22:18  <TartarusMkII> oohh, I see.
21:22:31  <TartarusMkII> Are there any AIs you'd suggest? For a novice player to play with? =o
21:23:00  <FLHerne> Not from much personal experience, I dislike AIs interfering with my masterplan :P
21:23:35  <FLHerne> NoCAB has a reputation for being fairly competent
21:24:11  <FLHerne> I saw some nice screenshots of AIAI, but never tried it
21:24:25  <FLHerne> One issue with a lot of AIs is that they don't manage save/load properly
21:24:42  <FLHerne> So many of them will effectively die the first time you save
21:24:48  <FLHerne> *and then load again
21:25:30  <FLHerne> Ah, wiki page https://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs#Features
21:25:40  <TartarusMkII> OH thankyou
21:25:46  <TartarusMkII> and so they are not capable of being reloaded?
21:25:55  <TartarusMkII> oh nvm  Isee.
21:25:55  <TartarusMkII> thanks!
21:26:14  <TartarusMkII> Much appreciated.
21:27:50  <FLHerne> The game allows for it, but several AIs don't do it properly :P
21:28:01  <TartarusMkII> mhmm
21:32:35  <FLHerne> If you wanted to play other people, Reddit S1 still seems to have some people awake
21:34:58  <TartarusMkII> Nah,. I'm content to learn and refine techniques for the fun of it for now
21:35:00  <TartarusMkII> I do appreciate it though.
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21:35:05  <TartarusMkII> DO you play multiplayer any, FLHerne?
21:35:28  <FLHerne> Occasionally, mostly I go for excessive pseudorealism in SP though
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21:36:16  <mczapkie> Good evening
21:36:29  <TartarusMkII> I like the challenge of games like this along with the freedom part
21:36:58  <FLHerne> mczapkie: Ahoy
21:37:21  <TartarusMkII> I've been wondering how MP works, gameplay wise
21:38:03  <FLHerne> TartarusMkII: On unscripted servers, people mostly just build past each other
21:38:25  <FLHerne> Sometimes collaborate to grow certain towns or compete for industries, but usually not
21:38:55  <TartarusMkII> What would scripts change?
21:38:59  <FLHerne> Some of the busier servers use GameScripts to add goals/challenges/rankings
21:39:28  <TartarusMkII> I see
21:39:30  <FLHerne> And that tends to push more competition and/or collaboration depending on what the goals actually are
21:40:17  <TartarusMkII> That sounds fun
21:40:23  <TartarusMkII> how long do these MP games go fo?
21:40:25  <TartarusMkII> for*
21:43:54  <FLHerne> Usually 100 years or so?
21:44:03  <FLHerne> Which is about 24 hours
21:44:11  <TartarusMkII> damn, that's interesting.
21:44:32  <mczapkie> usually servers are stopped, if nobody is logged, so it can last longer
21:44:49  <TartarusMkII> ah that makes sense.
21:45:00  <TartarusMkII> I'm so impressed with this community!
21:45:06  <FLHerne> mczapkie: Depends, reddit S1 hardly ever does :P
21:45:38  <FLHerne> nvm, I read your message slightly wrong
21:47:26  <mczapkie> of course, my statement is valid in case of not overpopulated servers :)
21:49:58  <mczapkie> Does anybody know, how to set properly mercurial communication with dev.openttdcoop.org using RSA key?
21:50:25  <mczapkie> I still have user/password question if I try tu push
21:51:17  <mczapkie> RSA was send via support issue and was replaced
21:51:39  <TartarusMkII> What are Waypoints useful for in Rails
21:52:15  <FLHerne> TartarusMkII: You send trains via them
21:52:37  <FLHerne> In case you want to force them to take a certain route or use certain platforms
21:53:14  <TartarusMkII> interesting. I can't imagine any set up that'd make use of one though
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21:56:56  <FLHerne> This is my only waypoint atm http://i.imgur.com/EMOm3Xf.png
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21:57:22  <FLHerne> It forces grain trains to travel via the station, rather than using the rather steep line to the east
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21:58:07  <FLHerne> Stations have a high pathfinder penalty, so trains will do some quite nasty things to avoid going through them
21:58:24  <TartarusMkII> huh interesting
21:58:33  <TartarusMkII> Thanks!
21:58:38  <FLHerne> Other common uses are if you have a station at say a factory, and you're both picking up and dropping cargo
21:59:10  <TartarusMkII> how so?
21:59:29  <FLHerne> You don't want to be in a situation where all platforms are filled with loading trains, because then no more cargo can be delivered and everything jams
22:00:01  <FLHerne> One option is just to have two stations, the other is to use a waypoint to restrict loading trains to a subset of the platforms
22:00:31  <FLHerne> In that case, using a depot as a magic buffer can be helpful too (and replace the waypoint in such a setup)
22:00:55  <FLHerne> That sentence was a bit incoherent, oh well
22:03:16  <TartarusMkII> thats interesting, I think  Isee
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22:17:03  <TartarusMkII> What tells a train what trrain depot to go to if you tell it to go to one?
22:17:08  <TartarusMkII> My trains just never go to the closest one..
22:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause> "closest" by pathfinder penalties
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22:18:03  <TartarusMkII> that's weird, the train passed a depot, then went through a station then much track to another depot..
22:18:07  <Eddi|zuHause> also, if you use path signals, the search starts at the end of the current reservation, not the position of the train
22:20:38  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:20:50  <TartarusMkII> ah okay good to know
22:20:51  <TartarusMkII> thanks!
22:29:09  <TartarusMkII> http://gyazo.com/ef1b6a344d2cc6783c6f125a3e62d94f
22:29:12  <TartarusMkII> look, it won't stop lol
22:29:31  <TartarusMkII> even with semaphores on the line, this train is insisting on riding past the depot at Tachburk Manor, down to Jesburk Manor
22:29:34  <TartarusMkII> but for what reason???
22:29:41  <TartarusMkII> that train never -ever- has to go to Jesburk
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22:30:39  <TartarusMkII> so much time is wasted, I may simply lose the game because of this
22:31:20  <TartarusMkII> I see what is happening, when the train goes to Tachburk from the north, it's reserving space all along the tracks until that last depot, and the train to the south can't run.
22:31:37  <TartarusMkII> But why is it reserving tracks so far away from the station it's stopping at? There are plenty of signals all along the tracks..
22:31:47  <TartarusMkII> they are Path signals.
22:33:25  <LadyHawk> im not sure without seeing anything but if there's even a single signal missing that somehow connects the tracks together.. it will do that
22:33:35  <TartarusMkII> I sent a screen shot via gyazo
22:33:35  <LadyHawk> not will.. it can
22:33:45  <Eddi|zuHause> TartarusMkII: are the signals in the other direction?
22:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't decipher anything on this picture
22:34:03  <TartarusMkII> apologizes.
22:34:21  <TartarusMkII> http://gyazo.com/5690bf4f77489cdf460282a0ac3d4d3f
22:34:36  <TartarusMkII> They are facing a direction, yea. I did not think it mattered with path signals
22:35:43  <LadyHawk> come from the wrong direction and they either 'don't exist' for the train or tells train 'oh wtf am i? *full turn*'
22:36:01  <LadyHawk> not played with newest updates i dont know if the behaviour has changed
22:36:18  <TartarusMkII> never before have I ever noticed any behavior with path signals and their facing
22:36:21  <TartarusMkII> but I'll try
22:36:30  <TartarusMkII> Yea, that did wrk
22:36:38  <TartarusMkII> but I don't understand why. I guess I had path signals all wrong.
22:40:53  <LadyHawk> trains try to 'think' for themselves, so there'll be no set way of things screwing up, it'll be random
22:42:26  <LadyHawk> i used to have a huge network with loads of trains and just watch 1 junction for hours.. i'm that sad =)
22:43:16  <TartarusMkII> lol
22:45:21  <LadyHawk> with so many variables, sooner or later i'd always find a train behave strange
22:45:34  <LadyHawk> :D
22:48:10  <LadyHawk> gotta admit though.. knowing you did the signals wrong for a while, and only now realised something was off... they're quite clever
22:48:12  <LadyHawk> :p
22:49:26  <TartarusMkII> I wish I understood better
22:49:44  <TartarusMkII> it says path signals let them occupy the same space as long as there's room ahead. And that they can be passed from behind
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22:50:02  <TartarusMkII> how can I make path signals that work both ways? Like if trains want to share ONE track (but wouldn't ever colide?)
22:50:06  <TartarusMkII> I guess they can't..
22:50:11  <TartarusMkII> or well, no..
22:50:17  <TartarusMkII> what about a train that has to go back and forth..
22:52:46  <LadyHawk> always need 2... 1 for one way, and 1 for the way back
22:53:20  <LadyHawk> whenever both ways go over a single line, there wont be 2 trains running
22:53:36  <TartarusMkII> oh I forgot I could put two there.. duh
22:54:00  <Eddi|zuHause> TartarusMkII: that likely will make two trains stuck waiting for the other to clear the track
22:57:18  <TartarusMkII> I know what you mean, but I feel like I have to do it for the sake of one station that trains have to go in and out of
22:57:26  <TartarusMkII> but I have a better understanding of it now at least.
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