Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i have my doubts it happened that way :p 00:05:40 <frosch123> well, whenever a show was run by the same guy for > 20 years, the show died when they retired 00:05:44 <frosch123> so, there is hope :p 00:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, the first one he commented was in 1997 :p 00:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and he missed the one in 2009 00:10:40 <frosch123> did he appologise for that in 2010? 00:11:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have that memorized, and it doesn't say in the text that google gave me :p 00:37:31 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:47:07 *** Pikka [~Octomom@124-171-225-158.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:57:49 *** tyteen4a03 [tyteen4a03@daedalusx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:50 *** Bhoren [~quassel@LAubervilliers-656-1-270-96.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:45 *** tyteen4a03 [tyteen4a03@daedalusx.net] has joined #openttd 01:08:17 *** 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02:31:35 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:51 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:57:37 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d083d59.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 03:04:35 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@xd9bf6718.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:23:39 *** glx_ [~glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:44e5:436f:71a7:1b3] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:39:29 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-98-111-253-226.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:44:16 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-98-111-253-226.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:33:38 *** nanoha-chan [~derp@van-app-svr.ad.v10networks.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:35:06 *** Pokka is now known as Pikka 04:54:32 *** JGR_ [~JGR@host86-178-172-180.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD431F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6674D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:57:08 *** JGR [~JGR@host86-178-170-235.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:57:08 *** JGR_ is now known as JGR 05:00:13 *** nanoha-chan [~derp@van-app-svr.ad.v10networks.ca] has joined #openttd 05:32:10 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 05:47:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host81-133-143-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #openttd 06:02:36 <andythenorth> moin 06:02:50 <peter1138> yes 06:02:51 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 06:02:54 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:03:03 <Pikka> very 06:03:14 <Alberth> great trucks pikka 06:03:20 <Pikka> thankyou :) 06:03:43 <Alberth> V will be very happy with yeti transport :) 06:04:07 <Pikka> I put them in the trains, figured I shouldn't leave them out of the rvs ;) 06:04:44 <Alberth> you should add a steering wheel, so he can drive himself :) 06:04:57 <Alberth> perhaps a bit too much V :) 06:13:44 <andythenorth> Duel tanker 06:13:46 <andythenorth> nice 06:16:07 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:17:34 <Flygon> Hey, dumb question 06:17:39 <Flygon> Since y'all technical folk 06:17:54 <Flygon> CUETools is giving me shit about the following 06:17:56 <Flygon> <Flygon> Exception: Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and 06:17:57 <Flygon> <Flygon> less than the size of the collection. 06:17:57 <Flygon> <Flygon> Parameter name: index 06:18:18 <Flygon> Now, I'm presuming it's confused because something some such happened wth the .bin and the .cue somehow being a bit off 06:18:27 <Flygon> Even tho they burn completely perfectly in ImgBurn 06:18:40 <Flygon> Anyone got any ideas how to fix this? 06:21:46 <andythenorth> new refinery https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7299/oil_refinery.png 06:22:39 <Flygon> Ooh 06:22:42 <Flygon> I like it! 06:26:34 <Alberth> nice andy 06:27:20 <andythenorth> eh Dan did it 06:27:37 <andythenorth> cut-copy-paste of existing sprites 06:29:44 <Alberth> fair enough :) 06:29:54 <andythenorth> trying to eliminate industries using base set sprites 06:31:52 * andythenorth wonders when FIRS32 will be done 06:32:42 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-143-196.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 06:37:38 <andythenorth> bbl 06:37:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host81-133-143-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:37:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1957B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:46:35 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 07:57:07 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:04:38 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:10:02 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:19:10 <Pikka> hmm 08:19:14 <Pikka> is pikkarail.com not loading for anyone else? 08:20:00 <Taede> loads for me 08:21:22 <Rubidium> can't say it isn't loading for me 08:21:29 <Pikka> how odd 08:21:39 <Pikka> thanks guys 08:22:12 <Rubidium> maybe it's the Australian internet filter? 08:23:28 <Flygon> Hahaha 08:23:37 <Flygon> We'll never live it down 08:23:38 <Flygon> :( 08:24:58 <Flygon> Yep 08:25:04 <Flygon> Ripped very well, hahaha 08:25:06 <Flygon> No pregaps :D 08:28:20 <Flygon> ... 08:28:25 <Flygon> I said that to the wrong channel 08:28:27 <Flygon> Sorry, guys. 08:28:41 <Flygon> (been trying to rip the damn music off this AoE CD all afternoon) 08:38:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host246-73-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:38:50 <Wolf01> O7 08:38:52 <Wolf01> O/ 08:39:08 <Wolf01> uhm, I have a big head today 09:30:21 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-161-82.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:31:23 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:34:16 *** looptrooper [~looptroop@0001f7ef.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:35:44 *** looptrooper [~looptroop@0001f7ef.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 09:36:28 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:45:19 *** Alberth [~alberth@a82-95-140-173.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:45:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:47:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@elephanta.plus.com] has joined #openttd 09:47:48 <Alberth> hihi 09:48:22 <andythenorth> lo 09:48:27 <andythenorth> so 32 cargos per newgrf then? 09:56:19 <Alberth> you'd want to have several industry newgrfs loaded? 10:00:51 <andythenorth> dunno 10:01:20 <andythenorth> for FIRS, the main justification for this is sandboxing 10:01:28 <andythenorth> it clears up the mess with default vehicles 10:01:32 <andythenorth> which is really quite broken 10:02:11 <andythenorth> I have no interest in > 32 cargos in a game 10:07:16 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EF27.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:07:16 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D5ED.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:10:25 <Alberth> obviously you can make two newgrfs 10:10:45 <andythenorth> yes 10:11:01 <andythenorth> or load multiple existing industry newgrfs 10:11:05 <andythenorth> which is a thing people do anyway 10:11:05 <Alberth> what I don't understand the "per newgrf" thing 10:11:16 <Alberth> ECS is even designed that way 10:11:39 <andythenorth> I favoured the â32 per newgrfâ so I can ignore players who request more :P 10:11:49 <andythenorth> and because limits force better design choices 10:12:15 <Alberth> there is a poll or so? 10:12:17 <andythenorth> nah 10:12:43 <andythenorth> this is down to âfrosch will decide, or he may decide to do nothing' 10:12:56 <andythenorth> ENoFrosch 10:13:39 <Alberth> but if you don't want > 32 cargoes in a game, why the "per newgrf" ? 10:13:52 <Alberth> you can also say "in total" ? 10:14:05 <andythenorth> hmm, not sure 10:14:19 <andythenorth> proposal was from frosch :) 10:14:21 <andythenorth> iirc 10:14:30 <Alberth> oh, missed that 10:15:21 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EF27.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:16:02 <andythenorth> default vehicles are extra-broken with FIRS now 10:16:12 <andythenorth> and thereâs no good way to handle the problem 10:16:19 <andythenorth> unless FIRS also includes vehicles 10:16:25 <andythenorth> should FIRS include vehicles? o_O 10:18:23 <Alberth> make a FIRS baseset, like V :) 10:19:02 <andythenorth> interesting idea 10:19:08 <andythenorth> Iâd want to ship it included in the grf 10:19:27 <Alberth> check for known compatible vehicle sets, and if missing throw a warning 10:20:38 <andythenorth> nah, chases a moving target :) 10:20:46 <andythenorth> and also might annoy authors who arenât listed 10:21:13 <andythenorth> also, apparently OpenTTD is already supposed to identify if no vehicles are available for a cargo 10:21:17 <andythenorth> although mine doesnât 10:22:20 <Taede> just check against any vehicle set being loaded, and check against known incompatible ones 10:22:40 <Taede> that way new ones (which should be compatible) wont require you to add them to the list 10:23:30 <andythenorth> nah 10:23:38 <andythenorth> default vehicles isnât a set 10:23:44 <andythenorth> so canât check for that 10:23:44 <andythenorth> :) 10:24:08 <Taede> but you can check if there is no vehicle set loaded at all, presumably? 10:24:15 <andythenorth> nah 10:24:30 <andythenorth> only by having the list of all known vehicle sets 10:24:33 <andythenorth> which isnât knowable 10:25:41 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd 10:27:00 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:44 <Alberth> iirc, I once tried to check for compatibility, don't remember if it ended up in trunk 10:28:09 <Alberth> it doesn't work nicely, as you have these "all but X" compatibilities 10:29:31 <Alberth> i think we should move to unique ids for cargoes 10:30:19 <Alberth> don't know how feasible that is 10:30:34 <Alberth> maybe it's just fixing default vehicles? 10:31:56 <andythenorth> maybe 10:32:05 <supermop> what am i supposed to use in nars to carry metal etc around 10:32:15 * andythenorth thinks replace default vehicles with a grf :P 10:32:16 <supermop> all these engines look the same to me 10:32:32 <andythenorth> totally isolated, just give the grf a special location and ship it with OpenTTD 10:32:49 <Alberth> it's nice that you can play without any newgrf 10:32:50 <andythenorth> no new code needed, except to handle loading the special grf, and compiling it 10:33:13 <Alberth> and I see no big problems in defining PASS etc for default vehicles 10:33:18 <andythenorth> well yes 10:33:24 <andythenorth> it just means touching OpenTTD code 10:33:32 * andythenorth favours dogfood approach :P 10:34:07 <Alberth> then you never solve the case where a user donwloads eg FIRS, and nothing else 10:34:26 <andythenorth> if OpenTTD ships the default vehicles grf, then itâs solved 10:34:33 <Alberth> even I got tricked by that with OpenGFX+industries 10:34:51 <Alberth> same cargoes, not compatible 10:34:56 <andythenorth> yes 10:35:00 <supermop> all of these freight locomotives go 112kmh going to mess up passenger timetables 10:35:11 <andythenorth> supermop: itâs realism 10:35:50 <supermop> if i wanted to play a realistic nrth american game i'd have no passenger service at all 10:36:28 <andythenorth> Alberth: itâs a problem for all industry sets I think 10:36:42 <andythenorth> my favourite option for FIRS is to disable all default vehicles :P 10:36:48 <andythenorth> sledgehammer, nut :P 10:37:02 <Alberth> would work 10:37:08 <andythenorth> brute force :) 10:37:36 <Alberth> they are totally useless with firs anyway 10:37:51 <Alberth> except pax perhaps 10:38:59 <Alberth> but in my view, we should stop with the cargo slot crap and use ids everywhere 10:39:07 <andythenorth> agreed 10:39:34 <Alberth> maybe add some newgrf-ish feature to map slots and ids onto each other 10:39:45 <Alberth> although that is perhaps the cargo table already 10:40:06 <andythenorth> there are various props for that kind of thing :) 10:40:12 <andythenorth> cargos are not short of properties :) 10:40:47 <Alberth> too much detail for random stuff you throw in trains :p 10:41:34 <andythenorth> +1 10:42:33 <andythenorth> bbl 10:42:36 <Alberth> although I must confess I don't like using a pax ship for transporting coal :) 10:42:40 <andythenorth> he :) 10:42:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@elephanta.plus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:59:49 <Flygon> supermop: Depends 10:59:53 <Flygon> In Victoria? 11:00:05 <Flygon> You'd have the freight locos going faster than pax 11:00:06 <Flygon> :B 11:16:54 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:a013:a5a9:30d:3e3b:7915] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f740e8e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 11:27:38 <Alberth> hihi 11:30:33 *** Cif [~cifvts@host85-58-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:31:07 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:a013:a5a9:30d:3e3b:7915] has joined #openttd 11:36:17 <frosch123> yay, new pikka pictures 11:36:26 <frosch123> old trucks with huge yetis on them 11:37:00 <Alberth> they look great :) 11:37:12 <Alberth> no I just have to find time to play with them 11:37:20 <frosch123> the cabin looks a bit small compared to the huge trailers 11:37:54 <frosch123> not sure what the closed vans are for 11:39:53 <Alberth> valuables? :) 11:40:42 <Alberth> or goods or food 11:41:39 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 11:48:44 *** Pikka [~Octomom@124-171-225-158.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:49:51 <frosch123> huh, are all depots in the new nuts invisible? 11:50:11 <frosch123> oh, nvm, i guess i broke ottd 11:50:13 *** Pikka [~sammich@124-171-225-158.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:53:57 <Pikka> glad you like them, frosch 11:55:56 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has quit [Quit: To robbery, slaughter, plunder they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace.] 11:58:19 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has joined #openttd 12:40:33 *** wicope_ [~wicope@112.Red-83-34-214.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 12:41:39 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:52:49 <frosch123> V453000: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/cc_trunk.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/cc_gradientremap.png <- it looks different 12:53:10 <frosch123> ignore the dark green, it's only a 8bpp sprite 12:54:59 <frosch123> i have a feeling we may need both, but i have no idea how one would create sprites for that 12:55:50 <frosch123> one could also try to combine them 12:55:51 <V453000> interesting :) 12:55:57 <frosch123> black - cc begin - cc end - white 12:59:55 <V453000> regarding the look it looks like the contrast is lost but idk how much it can be worked with :) 13:00:13 <frosch123> well, that is also a matter of the sprites 13:00:33 <frosch123> previously 0 was black, now 0 is the dark shade or cc gradient 13:01:42 <V453000> yeah 13:02:17 <V453000> shouldnt 0 stay black/very dark though ? :P 13:03:08 <frosch123> as dark as the original vehicle s:p 13:04:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@elephanta.plus.com] has joined #openttd 13:04:54 <andythenorth> quak 13:05:11 <TrueBrain> you are a plane? 13:05:27 <andythenorth> a bird 13:05:40 <TrueBrain> ah! 13:12:24 <frosch123> V453000: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/cc_gradient40C0.png <- some intermediate thign 13:12:49 <V453000> better :) 13:12:58 <V453000> the idea imo shouldnt be to kill contrast, just to allow more CC shades :) 13:14:55 <frosch123> well, you cannot adjust the algorithm using a single engine sprite :p 13:15:54 <V453000> sure 13:16:05 <frosch123> zbase bridges become a lot brighter in both new algorithms 13:16:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 13:16:51 <V453000> mhm 13:17:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that giant eye looks creeeeeeepy 13:17:36 <frosch123> no, cute 13:24:04 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:48 <andythenorth> iron ore mine 13:25:52 <andythenorth> default one is daft 13:26:10 <andythenorth> not everything has to be in scale, but still 13:26:32 <andythenorth> itâs too small for an open pit mine 13:30:42 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 13:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it wasn't an open pit mine in TTO 13:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> those graphics were used for the copper mine in TTD, which always confused me 13:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i see a copper mine, i think iron ore mine 13:32:45 <andythenorth> FIRS reuses the copper mine sprites for bauxite :) 13:32:46 <andythenorth> also 13:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> which doesn't make this easier :p 13:33:34 <andythenorth> Dan has mocked up a deep-mine layout for iron ore mine 13:34:23 * andythenorth looking for photos for inspiration 13:40:20 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:13 <supermop> maybe just have various generic deep and open mines? 13:43:33 <supermop> then color the piles of stuff outside to whatever it's meant to be 13:45:08 <andythenorth> thatâs the direction of travel 13:45:17 <andythenorth> but needs a little more interest / distinction 13:45:45 <andythenorth> FIRS coal mine uses the off-green colour, same as default 13:45:55 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#coal_mine 13:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> we've had endless discussions about colour of bauxite before... 13:46:05 <andythenorth> that yes :) 13:46:10 <andythenorth> CHIPS has it wrong 13:46:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it may make it difficult to distinguish bauxite and iron ore mines 13:46:46 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/entry/sprites/graphics/bauxite_cargo.png 13:46:56 <andythenorth> +1 13:49:12 <Alberth> neon-green! 13:50:07 <andythenorth> IRL, underground mines seem rare for bauxite 13:50:09 <andythenorth> I canât find any :P 13:54:18 <supermop> pre-20th C you could have volcanic mud pits for it 13:54:46 <supermop> as that was pretty much the only pre-modern way to get aluminum 13:55:30 <supermop> i'm playing my first ever NARS game 13:55:43 <supermop> don't care for the american trains 13:56:12 <supermop> mostly just wanted to build some HSR routes with metroliners 14:07:04 <andythenorth> hmm 14:07:05 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=971629#p971629 14:07:11 <andythenorth> also 14:07:12 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=971470#p971470 14:07:55 <andythenorth> do open pit mines work? 14:08:13 <andythenorth> it would be a PITA to make it look good; worth it? 14:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> those two look quite alright 14:09:01 <andythenorth> they seem small to me 14:09:06 <andythenorth> even allowing for scale compression 14:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the giant excavator might be a bit misplaced 14:09:42 <andythenorth> looks like 9x9 14:09:54 <andythenorth> biggest FIRS industry is probably a 9x7 fruit plantation 14:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we've had plenty of discussions about industry sizes already 14:10:05 <andythenorth> yes 14:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, open pit mines should be giant 14:10:49 <andythenorth> one option would be to draw sprites for every possible slope combination 14:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to account for some elevation changes in this area 14:11:07 <andythenorth> including options to join to neighbouring tile correctly 14:11:12 <andythenorth> but that isâŠ.much work 14:11:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: if you would do deep mines, you only need piles of different colour outside 14:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause> use always the same sprites, with different height offsets? 14:11:51 <andythenorth> open pit mines are benched, so itâs not implausible to try and draw sprites for them 14:11:52 <frosch123> which should already exist in various station sets 14:12:01 * andythenorth ponders a hack on foundations :O 14:12:07 <andythenorth> custom foundations... 14:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> except at the rim, maybe 14:12:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: you wouldnât find it boring to have 3 types of mine, all same colour + sprites, except for cargo? 14:13:12 <frosch123> widelands also only has minimal deviations on the mines 14:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think that is an entirely valid approach 14:13:22 <frosch123> like material and maybe roof shape 14:13:42 <andythenorth> I could recolour the buildings at least 14:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: widelands (or settlers) materials are more obviously distinguished than iron ore and bauxite 14:14:23 <andythenorth> Dan has done this for bauxite, but I dunno https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7154/Bauxite_mine1.png 14:14:30 <andythenorth> open pit is tricky 14:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks both too small and too bland 14:14:59 <andythenorth> drawing the excavated rock is hard 14:15:09 <Alberth> too green, and I doubt you'd see the bauxite 14:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> green buildings always look off to me 14:16:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ... one of the reasons i don't play with TTRS 14:16:28 <andythenorth> interesting 14:16:39 * andythenorth considers recolouring FIRS quarry buildings 14:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (i never even got far enough with TTRS to get annoyed by towns full of skyscrapers) 14:16:52 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#clay_pit 14:17:03 <andythenorth> ^ colour of tropic grass tile 14:17:06 <andythenorth> in proper base set 14:17:36 <Cif> I've compiled openttd trunk with gcc 5.1.0 on Archlinux and I have a small diff to mute a warning, I'm using the git repo, how can I submit a patch? 14:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the only green buildings i see, ever, are copper roofs 14:18:22 <andythenorth> different green :P http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#brewery 14:18:36 <andythenorth> I could CC the quarry 14:18:42 <andythenorth> itâs on the list for tweaks anyway 14:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds reasonable 14:19:52 <TrueBrain> Cif: by making a patch out of it, and submitting it to https://bugs.openttd.org/ 14:22:44 <Alberth> andythenorth: clay pit is fine, it's the green excavator that kills the picture for me 14:23:58 <andythenorth> better in company colour? 14:24:00 <Alberth> and something of a ramp edge at the south-west :) 14:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the excavator is even worse than the buildings 14:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the empty truck should maybe be sloped 14:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and the full truck is practically invisible on that ground 14:24:53 <andythenorth> or moved / removed 14:25:22 <andythenorth> that industry probably has had 2x or 3x more work than any other :) 14:25:37 <andythenorth> for not 2x or 3x better result :) 14:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed. 14:26:03 <andythenorth> shading the banks :| 14:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but one part of the project always uses 90% of the work :p 14:26:24 <andythenorth> standard 14:26:34 <andythenorth> well itâs on a list for repaint + animate 14:26:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the slope doesn't look like much of a slope 14:27:27 <andythenorth> itâs not 14:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> make the pit deeper, and the slope longer/more distinguished 14:27:46 <andythenorth> shallow excavation 14:28:21 <andythenorth> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Sand_and_gravel_pit,_Old_Warden,_Beds_-_geograph.org.uk_-_171226.jpg 14:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (and it is still too small for an open pit mine) 14:28:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm talking about the bauxite mine, not the clay pit 14:29:45 <andythenorth> oh yeah 14:29:54 <andythenorth> +1 to that then 14:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the clay pit is basically fine 14:30:36 <andythenorth> any kind of open pit mine needs a lot of care 14:30:48 <andythenorth> slopes :| 14:33:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6CDED.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:33:29 <andythenorth> the original TTD iron-ore mine is blatantly a drift mine ;) 14:33:31 <andythenorth> must be 14:33:42 <andythenorth> dunno where the drift is :) 14:39:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D5ED.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:46 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:24 * andythenorth ponders 15:13:45 * TrueBrain ponders with you 15:19:21 <andythenorth> it helps 15:29:40 * andythenorth dibbles FIRS primary production 15:29:49 <andythenorth> higher for farms 15:30:02 <andythenorth> and greater range of randomisation on construction 15:30:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i just read "disables" 15:30:17 <andythenorth> he 15:30:29 <andythenorth> the values were distorted by me playing too much NoCarGoal 15:31:01 <andythenorth> shame I canât randomise the production multipler property on build, to vary per cargo 15:31:07 <andythenorth> multiplier * 15:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> really? i'd have expected that to work individually for each output cargo 15:32:24 <andythenorth> nah 15:32:40 <andythenorth> the production level is changed, not the multiplier 15:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> then i have no idea how it works at all 15:33:35 <andythenorth> very few of us do 15:36:53 <andythenorth> iirc, monthly production = production level (per industry, default 16) * production multiplier (per cargo) * 8 [9] 15:37:21 <andythenorth> the cb to set prod. level on build setsâŠprod level 15:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so why would you want to vary the production multiplier when it is global= 15:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ? 15:39:58 <andythenorth> so e.g. arable farm has prod. multiplier [10, 10] 15:40:03 <andythenorth> grain, sugar beet 15:40:13 <andythenorth> so the two cargos are always produced in same amount, lockstep 15:40:19 <andythenorth> some players donât like that 15:40:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but changing the multiplier would automatically change the production of ALL industries 15:40:53 <Alberth> randomize amounts on creation? 15:40:55 <andythenorth> production multiplier isnât global to FIRS, the âper cargoâ means defined per cargo at each industry 15:41:02 <andythenorth> sorry for confusion :) 15:41:17 <andythenorth> Alberth: would need a new cb, but yes thatâs one option 15:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> then i still don't understand 15:41:25 <andythenorth> the other is to use the production cb 15:43:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so industries have a production level which is fixed at creation, and a multiplier that is increased/decreased during the game? 15:43:29 <andythenorth> vice versa 15:43:50 <andythenorth> the terminology is known to be confusing :) 15:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the multiplier is fixed and the level varies? 15:44:41 <andythenorth> yes 15:44:52 <andythenorth> itâs a neat system :P 15:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and you can't vary the level by cargo? 15:45:20 <andythenorth> by using the production cb, itâs relatively trivial 15:45:32 <andythenorth> just means handling the production cb, which is awkward 15:46:37 <andythenorth> FIRS primary industries already do that to handle supplies 15:46:43 <andythenorth> I could poke at that 15:48:00 <andythenorth> probably stick some random multiplier in permanent storage 15:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> let's conclude that i can't give you any advice on that 15:48:07 <andythenorth> me neither :| 15:48:13 <andythenorth> not my code :) 15:50:02 * andythenorth reads it 15:50:43 <andythenorth> ok, so I could read the prod_multiplier values when the industry is constructed 15:50:56 <andythenorth> add a random -ve/+ve increment 15:51:03 <andythenorth> store that to perm register 15:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> can you really? sounds like data that is not yet available on construction 15:51:30 <andythenorth> dunno, itâs an industry prop 15:51:52 * andythenorth will test in a bit 15:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause> callbacks run during construction usually cannot access such variables 15:52:26 <andythenorth> hmm 15:52:44 <andythenorth> I could read it during production cb 15:52:48 <andythenorth> probably works 15:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> if callbacks wish to use such data, it must be passed via extra_callback_info1/2 15:52:56 <andythenorth> not even sure itâs adding anything to gameplay :P 15:53:32 <andythenorth> does it matter to have some farms produce more livestock than milk, and vice versa? 15:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to run combined trains, keeping the values together is preferable 15:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if they change separately, then you have to constantly adapt train composition 15:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (or use refit at station) 15:55:00 <Alberth> not if you do 'fully load one cargo' 15:55:18 <Alberth> you may run partly empty, but who cares 15:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that only helps prevent short-term lockups, but it's still inefficient 15:56:11 * andythenorth favours leaving it alone 15:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> part of the problem is that production always makes these double/half jumps 15:56:39 <andythenorth> nah, not in FIRS 15:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so every production change must be met with a capacity change. you can't have sensible reserves 15:57:43 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, i haven't played with modern FIRS yet 15:57:54 <andythenorth> it has the same problem, but mediated by supplies 15:58:19 <andythenorth> single -> double -> quadruple production 15:58:30 <andythenorth> hitting quadruple means a lot more infrastructure / vehicles 15:58:54 <andythenorth> and unless the networks are totally segregated, any failure to deliver supplies causes total deadlock 15:59:35 <andythenorth> itâs valid for playing NoCarGoal in 3-hour multiplayer games 15:59:38 <andythenorth> but otherwise not 15:59:53 <andythenorth> suggestions? 16:00:27 <andythenorth> my notes are âmore options, on player parameter: linear, geometricâ :P 16:01:04 <Alberth> while I usually don't bother with supplies, I can see the value in the mechanism 16:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i think supplies should be sublinear 16:01:27 <Alberth> it forces players to handle big variations in transport capacity 16:01:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you double the supplies, you don't get double the production 16:01:47 <Alberth> at least, if you are prepared to move everything you get 16:02:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and supplies should be less dependent on timetables 16:02:05 <andythenorth> they are sub-linear currently 16:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so when you deliver supplies <whenever>, the effect should degrade over time, not suddenly disappear when a delivery fails 16:03:34 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:34 <andythenorth> I considered extending the window 16:03:48 <andythenorth> with a ramp-down 16:03:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that probably does not help 16:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe good would be an s-curved decay 16:05:03 <andythenorth> what about ramped production? 16:05:09 <andythenorth> hmm 16:05:12 <Alberth> just do a linear ramp-down? 16:05:12 <andythenorth> nah, annoying latency 16:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> if delivery of supplies was less than 1 month ago, little decay, between 1-3 months steadily climbing decay, after that, decay is dropped drastically, but not quite disappears 16:05:33 <andythenorth> (ramping production up would be annoying) 16:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what is "ramped"? 16:06:24 <andythenorth> same as your proposal for decay, but linear 16:06:32 <andythenorth> same concept 16:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> basically my suggestion would work somewhat like the default station rating 16:06:35 <andythenorth> different curve 16:06:40 <Alberth> in the initial yeti programming, I once programmed that you needed 10 production iterations to get rid of the collected input cargo, it has the effect that out is not immediate, which is nice, imho 16:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> a delayed effect of increase would work this way as well 16:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so delivering supplies increases a maximum value, and the production slowly increases to this maximum 16:08:45 <andythenorth> delayed effect doesnât show you what production amount you need capacity for :) 16:08:53 <andythenorth> hmm 16:09:00 <andythenorth> industry window text is the main problem here :| 16:09:02 <Alberth> perhaps use X amount of provided supplies / month, if you get more, you get high production longer 16:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the maximum decays if delivery is not repeated 16:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the current mechanism is probably fine for certain play styles, so don't just throw it out 16:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> example: production output may be any value between 100% and 400%. sum of supplies deliveries during last 3 months (rolling average) sets the maximum production also to a value between 100% to 400%. production value changes by +/-1% in each production cycle towards the current maximum 16:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> this means, if supplies delivery disappears, maximum production drops down to 100% in 3 months, but production output will be higher than 100% for a longer time 16:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> this also means, you can have random events that increase/decrease the production output (with their effect vanishing over time if not met with a change in supplies delivery) 16:19:14 <andythenorth> not planning to throw out the current mechanic, itâs battle tested 16:19:20 <andythenorth> I want to offer one or more alternatives 16:19:36 <andythenorth> and not just some âchange values hereâ parameters that will baffle most players :P :) 16:20:33 <andythenorth> ok so rolling average 16:20:46 <andythenorth> assume ârequirementâ is 60t / month for 400% production (example values) 16:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> this separation between current and maximum output factors may also be used for secondary industries 16:21:26 <andythenorth> if 3 month rolling average is 45t, produce this month at 300% 16:21:26 <andythenorth> ? 16:21:29 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you deliver a steel mill with only ore, production will be 100%. if you start delivering coal as well, max production will be 200%, but actual production will slowly rise from 100% to 200% 16:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how to come from "amount of supplies delivered" to "x%" is a different issue 16:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: say i have never delivered supplies before. then max and current output is 100% 16:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then i deliver 60t supplies 16:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: max immediately jumps to 400%, but current is 101%, 102%, 103% in each 256-tick production step 16:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> after 3 months, there were about 25 production steps, so production is 125% 16:25:30 <andythenorth> that is somewhat like original FIRS 16:25:31 <andythenorth> ish 16:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if i never delivered supplies again 16:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> then max would drop to 100%, but production goes 124%, 123%, ... 16:26:50 <andythenorth> how to explain to players? 16:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> effect of supplies on production: immediate [current]/delayed[new] 16:27:48 <Alberth> if you deliver more, production will rise, but slowly 16:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or "on production boost" 16:28:14 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: old FIRS was different, because it relied on the builtin randomized production changes. there is nothing randomized in this proposal 16:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: with this 1% change, going from 100% to 200% takes about a year 16:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe dropping can be accelerated to 2% 16:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or dropping is 1% if between 100 and 150%, 2% if between 150% and 200%, 3% if between 200% and 250%, ... then missing delivery may have a bigger impact on higher levels 16:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's still not immediately causing a deadlock 16:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> if a farm is hit by a random event that halves production, then on original 100% production, it takes half a year to recover. if you were on 400%, (and thus dropped to 200%) it takes 2 years to recover 16:39:43 <andythenorth> so this is labelled âgradualistâ or something 16:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't come up with that word :p 16:40:08 <andythenorth> I am not planning to actually ship FIRS 2 for some time, so this could be implemented and tested 16:40:12 <andythenorth> provide a better word :) 16:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "effect of supplies on production: {immediate|gradual}" could work 16:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think this proposal is difficult to implement 16:48:02 <andythenorth> no 16:48:12 <andythenorth> needs handling in a few cbs 16:48:20 <andythenorth> text is the hardest part :P 16:49:37 <Eddi|zuHause> text: "current production level is X% {({increasing|decreasing} towards Y% due to {surplus|shortage} of supplies)}" 16:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> where each {} is a nested sub-string that needs pushing to the stack 16:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> if X==Y, then the second part is omitted 16:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> if X>Y then the second part contains decreasing/shortage 16:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> if X<Y then the second part contains increasing/surplus 16:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause> can be done in one switch, if X and Y are cached in storage 16:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause> may be easier in two steps, where the first one checks for X==Y 16:58:36 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d083d59.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Yo.] 17:00:54 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:36 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: something along these lines: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfbsx79gc 17:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, "STORE_TEMP," should read "STORE_TEMP(" 17:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the string would then be something like "current production level is {0:NUM} ({2:STRING} towards {1:NUM} due to {3:STRING})" 17:07:48 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7674 17:08:03 <andythenorth> kids bath time, bad time to test this :) 17:08:09 <andythenorth> but Iâve added the issue 17:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> one would assume kids at some point learn to bathe by themselves :p 17:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (possibly after flooding the living room once) :p 17:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (including water dropping through the downstairs neighbours' ceiling) 17:15:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what is about this mechanic that appeals to you? 17:15:43 <andythenorth> + it 17:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that it is less dependent on exact timetabling. you just sort of throw things at the industry and it balances out at some value 17:18:05 <andythenorth> what will be the effect on capacity for picking up cargo? 17:18:39 <Eddi|zuHause> same as now, if you're efficient at supplies delivery, production will end up at 400% 17:19:35 <andythenorth> youâll spend more time adding âone more wagonâ to trains or âone more truckâ for RVs? 17:20:05 * andythenorth wonders why we grow industry production 17:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not. you balance for the expected final volume 17:20:20 <andythenorth> on a tiny map it makes sense for gameplay, because you run out of things to connect 17:20:40 <andythenorth> would static industry production be better on larger maps? 17:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: low starting production is better when starting out. you're not immediately swamped with cargo 17:21:11 <andythenorth> also vehicles improve 17:21:16 <andythenorth> speed, capacity per tile 17:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: once you get a decent network going, you have more money to invest 17:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and can invest that in improved capacity 17:21:42 <andythenorth> ok, so I can rule out âstaticâ as a supplies mechanic 17:21:51 <andythenorth> would be daft 17:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> probably 17:22:42 <andythenorth> already achievable: just donât deliver 17:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there would also be no point in having supplies in the first place :p 17:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> also, people would just increase production by placing more industries nearby 17:25:01 <andythenorth> thatâs actually what I tend to do now 17:25:09 <andythenorth> transporting supplies is quite tedious 17:25:17 <andythenorth> and cdist isnât very good at routing them 17:25:57 <Alberth> make them valuables? 17:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you could have a mode where you remove supplies, and reinstate the original randomized growth algorithm 17:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but i wouldn't use that :p 17:29:38 <andythenorth> me neither 17:29:45 <andythenorth> it never quite worked satisfactorily 17:35:47 *** roidal_ [~roland@193-154-142-146.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 17:42:38 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-143-196.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:32 <andythenorth> so Supplies Effect: Gradual | Immediate (Gentle) | Immediate (Aggressive) 17:49:41 <andythenorth> current version is aggressive 17:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> what then is "gentle"? 17:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> also, like i said, the gradual effect might also be useful on secondary industries 17:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> where the range may be 25% to 100% (of input cargo converted) 17:56:00 <argoneus> WE ARE THE HEROES OF OUR TIME 17:56:03 <argoneus> WHOO HOO HAA HOO 17:56:17 <argoneus> WHOA HOO WHOA HAA 18:00:32 <andythenorth> gentle is the 2x, 4x mechanic, but the values changed to 1.5x and 3x or so 18:00:41 <andythenorth> and the window is maybe relaxed 18:00:52 <andythenorth> I find providing 4x the capacity is tedious :P 18:01:28 * andythenorth wonders about delivering annually :P 18:03:50 <Alberth> once in the entire game :p 18:04:00 <andythenorth> that too 18:04:12 <andythenorth> ach, 3% battery :( 18:04:21 * andythenorth needs to deliver electricity 18:04:31 <Alberth> add a power plant :p 18:12:42 <andythenorth> should there be a variant where supplies have unbounded effect? 18:12:55 <andythenorth> (subject to newgrf spec production limit) 18:13:03 <Alberth> unbounded? 18:13:03 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:13:16 <andythenorth> currently max production is 4x default 18:13:29 <andythenorth> that was a gameplay choice 18:13:49 <andythenorth> I donât think itâs interesting to deal with thousands of tonnes of output at a single industry 18:14:17 <Alberth> people do it the other way around :) 18:15:02 <Alberth> but you can just ignore the production 18:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe have two settings. one for the gradual/immediate method, and one for the maximum production multiplier 18:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so people could have 1600% multiplier if they wish 18:17:47 <andythenorth> wondering about that 18:18:02 <andythenorth> I dislike that kind of parameter, but it might be valid here 18:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (possibly required supplies would grow with this value) 18:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> (or even have another setting for that) 18:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: two separate settings are imho better than combining unrelated things 18:20:50 <andythenorth> I think my dislike is that it stops being a plain choice, and starts being an economic exercise 18:21:07 <andythenorth> basically, like going to IKEA 18:21:18 <andythenorth> without the upside of bad sausages and good mustard 18:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> what's there to have against horse sausage? :p 18:21:54 <andythenorth> never knowingly tried horse :) 18:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember ever being at an ikea 18:22:00 <andythenorth> you should go 18:22:06 <andythenorth> as a scientific exercise 18:22:20 <andythenorth> but you have to actually need furniture and utensils 18:22:26 <andythenorth> otherwise itâs invalid 18:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 18:22:53 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:23:44 <andythenorth> I am unconvinced by setting the max multiplier :) 18:24:10 <andythenorth> there must be something more interesting to explore 18:24:41 <andythenorth> Alberth: do you _ever_ deliver supplies? 18:24:43 <andythenorth> o_O 18:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, have no limit but some extreme sublinear scaling 18:25:15 <andythenorth> plausible 18:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and have the effect in 50% steps 18:25:30 <andythenorth> especially if the explanatory text is reworked (and uses text stack) 18:25:36 <andythenorth> basically a âlevel upâ mechanic 18:25:45 <andythenorth> with progressively greater requirement 18:25:56 <Alberth> very seldomly, basically after I am 'done' with the transport network 18:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so 1 supply: 50%, 4 supplies: 100%, 9 supplies: 150%, 16 supplies: 200% 18:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that 18:27:18 * andythenorth ponders powers of 2 18:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> or exponential instead of quadratic 18:27:24 <andythenorth> or geometric requirements :P 18:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that is the same thing :p 18:27:57 <andythenorth> 2, 4, 16, 256 18:27:58 <andythenorth> :P 18:28:01 <andythenorth> evils 18:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that is double-exponential? 18:28:33 <andythenorth> level 5 would beâŠchallenging :) 18:28:41 <Alberth> 'impossible' :p 18:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that would be kinda the point :p 18:28:48 <andythenorth> very big ship 18:29:39 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 18:36:11 <Alberth> so yeah, I would like a bit more randomized industry behavior, but I can see it doesn't fit in your design 18:40:58 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought the design was supposed to take the randomness out... but if you want to add randomness, you could either change the base production, or the amount of supplies required for each "level up" on a per-industry-basis 18:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so one industry has a 2,4,8,16 progression, and another industry has 3,9,21,63 progression 18:47:05 *** Cif [~cifvts@host85-58-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:55:26 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:29 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:57:31 <andythenorth> interesting idea 18:57:32 <andythenorth> biab 18:57:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@elephanta.plus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:06:31 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 19:32:09 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has quit [Quit: To robbery, slaughter, plunder they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace.] 19:56:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.205.194.64] has joined #openttd 19:59:28 <andythenorth> Alberth: more randomized? o_O 20:00:07 <Alberth> well, without doing supplies, you set up an industry once, and you never ever have to check if there are sufficient trains etc 20:01:17 * andythenorth wonders 20:01:24 <andythenorth> can GS set the prod_level? 20:02:22 <andythenorth> hmm 20:02:26 <andythenorth> seems GS can only read industries 20:02:38 <andythenorth> not set props 20:02:57 <Alberth> I would expect so, although that gives options :p 20:03:20 <Alberth> but payments for transported cargo are perhaps more interesting 20:03:30 <andythenorth> how about an AI that deliver supplies? o_O 20:03:34 <andythenorth> haphazardly :P 20:04:09 <Alberth> haha, could be fun :) 20:04:51 <Alberth> but I may interfer :p 20:05:58 *** wicope_ [~wicope@112.Red-83-34-214.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:53 <Alberth> gn 20:07:12 *** Alberth [~alberth@a82-95-140-173.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:11:01 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:23:27 <andythenorth> also 20:23:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.205.194.64] has left #openttd [] 21:13:58 *** roidal_ [~roland@193-154-142-146.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 21:26:03 <Wolf01> 'night 21:26:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:34:03 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1957B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:45 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f740e8e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:51:57 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 23:01:26 *** sim-al2 [~chatzilla@2602:306:cdd9:e4c0:a005:d223:18c4:6b05] has joined #openttd 23:02:59 <sim-al2> Hi guys anyone here wiling to helo me set up a non-dedicated server? I've opened ports as per https://wiki.openttd.org/Server but I'm not seeing any thing on the server list 23:25:23 <glx> set it to advertise and check http://www.openttd.org/en/servers 23:26:55 <glx> some routers prevent servers from being accessed from local ip with outside ip 23:33:48 <sim-al2> I did get that. It seems to work if I use dedicated mode now