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Log for #openttd on 7th June 2015:
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02:19:01  <supermop> hello
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05:31:22  <Alberth> moin
05:31:27  <andythenorth> o/
05:36:52  <supermop> hi
05:40:51  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7332/bigger_oil_refinery_1.png
05:40:57  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7333/bigger_oil_refinery_2.png
05:41:12  * andythenorth has been taking advantage of FIRS compiling in 5s ^
05:41:29  <andythenorth> more layouts for Oil Refinery
05:42:18  <Alberth> keeping tanks together and processing together
05:43:17  <andythenorth> seems to be how it’s done
05:43:17  <Alberth> looks good
05:44:01  <Alberth> it could use a little more variation perhaps, the 'office' sort of disappears with the big buildings
05:44:45  <Alberth> perhaps some open space?
05:47:10  <andythenorth> I wondered about some empty tile
05:47:13  <andythenorth> or pipe tiles
05:47:15  <andythenorth> dunno
05:47:21  <andythenorth> I like the manic intensity
05:47:56  <Alberth> then don't touch it any more :)
05:49:22  <Alberth> you could have pipes at the same level as the top of the tanks, so people can walk under it
05:51:20  * andythenorth will try it in a game or so, then decide
05:51:30  <andythenorth> there are interesting pipe shapes that could be used
05:52:24  <Alberth> it's all a bit vertical to me, something horizontal-ish would break that
05:54:33  <Alberth> ah, original had more open pipes  https://wiki.openttd.org/Oil_Refinery
05:56:32  <Alberth> maybe a group of different size tanks?
05:57:45  <Alberth> a 2x2 tiles one :)
06:04:31  <andythenorth> there are probably pieces in DWE station tiles
06:04:41  <andythenorth> or there are some oil station parts in ISR
06:08:44  <Alberth> doing a little shopping :)
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06:57:00  * andythenorth busy busy
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07:01:39  <andythenorth> hrm
07:01:44  <andythenorth> Grain Mill
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07:01:57  <andythenorth> forum suggestion to add silos
07:02:03  <andythenorth> might be nice
07:02:11  <andythenorth> also the windmill version is one tile
07:02:20  <andythenorth> looks stupid
07:02:26  <andythenorth> should I add a granary building?
07:02:27  <andythenorth> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Skirbeck%2C_Boston%2C_Maud_Foster_Mill.jpg
07:02:42  <andythenorth> http://gerald-massey.org.uk/windmills/images/07/Gamnel%20Wharf%20mill%201.jpg
07:03:01  <andythenorth> or even two windmills together?
07:03:24  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#grain_mill
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07:17:56  <Alberth> second picture is clearly not good for the mill
07:18:22  <Alberth> the building takes away all the wind of the mill
07:18:56  <Alberth> like the idea of the building at a distance
07:19:42  <Alberth> two windmills seems a bit too much to me
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07:21:52  <andythenorth> I tried it
07:21:54  <andythenorth> might be ok
07:22:44  <Alberth> perhaps it's just me,I am used to windmills as single building in the middle of nowhere
07:22:51  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7334/two_windmills.png
07:22:55  <Alberth> but those are watermills, pumping water
07:24:14  <andythenorth> dutch style :)
07:24:51  <Alberth> :)
07:25:31  <andythenorth> hmm
07:25:33  <Alberth> http://straatkaart.nl/8711HB-Brouwersdijk/media_fotos/molen-ybenas-molen-workum-provincie-friesland-AgB/
07:25:56  <Alberth> http://www.fryslansite.com/d-base/html/Dokkum_molens.htm
07:25:57  <andythenorth> I’ll draw a granary and then decide how many windmills
07:27:14  <Alberth> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Zwaluw_%28Birdaard%29#/media/File:Burdaard_m%C3%BBne.JPG    grain mill
07:27:45  <Alberth> sounds like the right order of deciding to me :)
07:29:14  <Alberth> http://www.dezaanseschans.nl/en/windmills-at-zaanse-schans/  this is the only place where you have many mills together, but it's created this way for tourists (although originally there were a lot of mills there, 600 the text says)
07:29:44  <Alberth> can't imagine how that must have looked
07:30:02  <Alberth> probably like antenna spam :)
07:30:59  <andythenorth> this granary? http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/18/21/182137_a2aa58cd.jpg o_O
07:31:01  <andythenorth> maybe not
07:31:08  <andythenorth> it’s a restaurant near my office ;P
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07:39:34  <Alberth> :O snowy builders yard, very good looking :)
07:39:59  <Alberth> it looks like a granary alright
07:40:28  <Alberth> perhaps a bit too many decorations :)
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07:51:22  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7335/windmill_granary.png
07:51:40  <andythenorth> too high?
07:54:48  <Alberth> nah
07:55:03  <Alberth> interesting doors at the top floor :)
07:56:58  <andythenorth> yeah
07:57:40  <Alberth> http://www.inarchitecten.nl/project.php?ps=6&pr=917    it needs a hook above it
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07:58:51  <andythenorth> yes
08:03:16  <andythenorth> needs a hook thing now https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7336/windmill_granary_2.png
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08:05:13  <Alberth> doesn't look like it to me
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08:05:46  <Alberth> you want a big door if you hoist grain to the second floor
08:07:01  <Alberth> new granary looks pretty, all buildings nicely in the same style
08:07:28  <planetmaker> moin
08:07:39  <Alberth> moin planetmaker
08:07:52  <planetmaker> hm, I see lovely new firs buildings here
08:08:19  <Alberth> all multi-site-ish
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08:14:06  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7337/windmill_granary_3.png
08:14:12  <andythenorth> hook thing
08:14:13  <andythenorth> dunno
08:15:48  <V453000> yay
08:16:50  <V453000> I think the holes/door should not be 100% black andy
08:17:13  <planetmaker> :) Not sure the hook needs a whole protruding building part. But looks nice this way, too
08:17:39  <andythenorth> I think it looks weird tbh
08:17:42  <planetmaker> I think hook as in wooden means to fasten a rope to lift stuff to the window is totally sufficient
08:17:52  * andythenorth removes the sticking out part
08:20:43  <planetmaker> http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Frundreise-niedersachsen.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2Fstade.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Frundreise-niedersachsen.com%2Fpage%2F2%2F&h=507&w=760&tbnid=-dm82S4BQLIqsM%3A&zoom=1&docid=jE3zwYFAtZlKVM&ei=r_5zVei_OcvSUevMgIAM&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=350&page=2&start=46&ndsp=52&ved=0COYBEK0DMEA <-- like those things found on the buildings there
08:21:02  <planetmaker> just a small stick
08:22:00  <V453000> I like sticking out part a lot
08:22:02  <V453000> a nice detail
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08:36:01  <Wolf01> hi hi
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08:36:36  <Alberth> moin
08:40:41  <V453000> hyhy
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08:43:31  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7338/windmill_granary_4.png
08:44:13  <planetmaker> oh, that looks very nice indeed
08:44:47  <andythenorth> better than a single tile windmill
08:44:52  <andythenorth> I might add some other tile as well
08:45:08  <andythenorth> it bothers me when the vehicle stations are many more tiles than the industry
08:47:17  <Alberth> nice change, makes it a whole new building
08:47:32  <V453000> why does EVERYTHING in blender have to be so stupidly complicated
08:47:38  <V453000> making a camera is rocket science
08:47:45  <andythenorth> rocket science is not very hard
08:47:57  <andythenorth> get a tube, fill with explodey stuff, light one end
08:47:59  <andythenorth> stand back
08:48:11  <andythenorth> jet engine science, that’s complicated
08:48:33  <V453000> k :D
08:48:43  <Alberth> rofl!
08:50:11  <andythenorth> V453000: still better than pixels, no?
08:50:50  <V453000> well better
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08:51:10  <V453000> it always has the 3D usefulness but mfhsdfuo
08:52:54  <frosch123> hola
08:52:59  <V453000> hi
09:02:46  <Alberth> hoi
09:03:14  <Wolf01> o/
09:11:01  <planetmaker> \o
09:25:56  <andythenorth> water wheel variant of windmill? o_O
09:29:22  <argoneus> /o\
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09:38:41  <frosch123> andythenorth: make a steampunk version of firs, and make windmills and watermills the default after 2050
09:39:28  <frosch123> you never see industries only available in early years, better make them available again in the future :)
09:41:01  <Alberth> can't you just repeat history, say every 500 years? :)
09:46:24  <andythenorth> civilisation cycle
09:46:38  <andythenorth> who plays 500 years? :P
09:47:25  <Alberth> everybody that plays for a year with a single game?  :)
09:47:27  <Alberth> bbl
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09:48:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: it also solves the daylength problem :p
09:48:34  <frosch123> you have 500 years time to build your network, before running 1st gen steam engines on them :p
09:48:39  <andythenorth> ha
09:48:43  <andythenorth> just reset the date
09:48:48  <andythenorth> every 200 years
09:49:00  <andythenorth> or run the clock backwards
09:49:12  <andythenorth> “new engine available: slower and weaker than the current one"
09:59:00  <andythenorth> hmm
09:59:00  <andythenorth> industry fields via new objects? o_O
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11:49:38  <andythenorth> o/
11:53:17  <Alberth> hi hi, made more nice buildings?
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12:00:03  <frosch123> is there some kind of pretty-printer for json?
12:00:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i would be really surprised if there wasn't
12:01:08  <Alberth> json.dump has an indent option or so
12:02:18  <frosch123> i was hoping for some console tool :p
12:03:15  <frosch123> json_pp
12:05:25  <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably have specified the context, otherwise everybody is just replying for their favourite scripting language
12:06:25  <frosch123> well, fuck dynamically typed languages
12:06:29  <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phpsmwed5
12:06:49  <frosch123> json_pp --json_opt=pretty < la_VA.json | less  <- way shorter
12:07:01  <Alberth> :)
12:07:38  <Alberth> rewrite eints in java? :)
12:10:24  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pusuynbkl <- that's what i have so far
12:10:48  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwvmv5se7 <- but that is really not helpful
12:12:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it says you're missing the acc(usative) case. what's confusing about that?
12:12:46  <Alberth> it's not supposed to be missing :p
12:12:57  <frosch123> @kick Eddi|zuHause enjoy the sun :)
12:12:57  *** Eddi|zuHause was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [enjoy the sun :)]
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12:13:31  <Eddi|zuHause> not a lot of sun right now
12:13:56  <frosch123> that's only because i shut the blinds
12:24:27  <frosch123> ah, "case"->"cases"
12:27:43  <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plu1nyid8
12:27:45  <frosch123> boom, oom, something is broken :p
12:29:10  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxg0yksi3 <- i made it more similar to the xml loader
12:29:15  <frosch123> btw. why are they so different?
12:29:34  <frosch123> i hoped for some base class, only replacing a few methods for xml/json
12:29:53  <frosch123> but it looks like there is a _json function for every xml function, which is 50% the same
12:30:10  <Alberth> yep
12:30:28  <Alberth> and json{Saver,Loader} doesn't do shit
12:30:44  <Alberth> and Xml{Saver,Loader} isn't much about xml at all
12:31:44  <frosch123> well, for now, this doesn't work
12:31:55  <frosch123> i revert back to xml, so i can test my actual changes
12:36:36  <Alberth> you loaded all openttd languages?
12:36:52  <frosch123> yes, i uploaded all, exit eints, and tried to restart
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12:55:51  <andythenorth> with the huts? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7339/windmill_granary_5.png
12:56:00  <andythenorth> or without? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7338/windmill_granary_4.png
12:56:10  <andythenorth> I don’t like small industry layouts
12:57:09  <supermop> ugh i just lost hours to this reddit server game
12:57:31  <Alberth> huts don't really fit the other buildings
12:57:46  <Alberth> supermop: good, openttd is working :)
12:58:24  <andythenorth> I can change the hut style
12:58:26  <supermop> how about you take over my company Alberth so i can make a late dinner?
12:58:51  <Alberth> sorry, I have other games to play
13:00:07  <supermop> anyone else?
13:11:01  <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/eints/ <- enable lang_sync to process unstable languages
13:11:15  <frosch123> remove the language table from lang_sync and get it from eints
13:11:31  <frosch123> and make lang_sync use the isocode as key for languages, instead of the grflangid
13:13:41  <frosch123> oi, the example is wrong :p
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13:19:02  <frosch123> updated 60
13:21:39  <Alberth> unstable addition needs manual update
13:22:32  <frosch123> you mean the language definition?
13:23:01  <Alberth> oh, it has.   nvm
13:23:10  <Alberth> ok, patch queue seems fine
13:23:58  <frosch123> oh, you meant "the manual" :o
13:24:50  <Alberth> yes :)
13:25:29  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7340/windmill_granary_6.png
13:25:30  <andythenorth> ?
13:25:38  <andythenorth> looks like a monastery? o_O
13:25:51  * andythenorth wonders about just one tile of huts
13:26:58  <frosch123> remove the southern house and make it just a dirt tile?
13:27:23  <frosch123> or possibly the western tile
13:27:48  <andythenorth> yeah
13:28:03  <frosch123> well, you cannot put a heqs vehicle there :p
13:28:07  * andythenorth wonders about 2x2 with a tile missing
13:28:12  <andythenorth> weird though
13:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can just make a fenced grass tile.
13:30:24  <Alberth> move the small houses one tile to NW ?
13:30:24  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7341/windmill_granary_7.png
13:30:31  <andythenorth> maybe some baseset trees? o_O
13:31:02  <andythenorth> something company colour?
13:31:02  <frosch123> no, trees are weird
13:31:19  <frosch123> esp. if the normal trees are invisible
13:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause> you really don't want trees near a windmill... they have a tendency to block the wind.
13:31:39  <frosch123> some vehicles would be nice, but an empty tile also works, but maybe try it on the west side instead of south
13:31:59  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/graphics/industries/arable_farm_1.png
13:32:01  <Alberth> a dirt path on it?
13:32:08  <andythenorth> cart, steam tractor with trailer
13:32:11  <andythenorth> existing arable farm
13:32:22  <andythenorth> ?
13:32:41  <Eddi|zuHause> full sentence?
13:33:00  <frosch123> the cart could work
13:33:18  <frosch123> but likely not centered on the tile :p
13:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause> https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2015/06/06/why-agile-and-especially-scrum-are-terrible/
13:33:47  <Alberth> I agree, cart looks better than tractor
13:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how a windmill has need for a tractor
13:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe a small truck in later years
13:37:39  * andythenorth wonders what version of scrum that guy was doing
13:38:10  <nikow> e/win 16
13:38:12  <nikow> sorry
13:39:52  <supermop> goodnight all
13:40:00  <Hiddenfunstuff> day nobody
13:40:24  <supermop> if anyone wants to mess around with my company on reddit firs server have at it
13:40:38  <supermop> small network of timetabled trains
13:40:51  <supermop> password is 'mop'
13:41:03  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody here plays the game.
13:41:10  <supermop> damn it
13:42:33  <andythenorth> nobody does scrum either
13:42:41  <andythenorth> everybody does ‘scrumbut’
13:45:23  <frosch123> i was once on a 3-people team, and we were asked to try this "scrum" thing
13:45:33  <frosch123> then one of the 3 was assigned to some other project
13:45:42  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7342/windmill_granary_8.png
13:45:52  <frosch123> we did not continue to try it with 2 people :p
13:46:45  <frosch123> i would still put the vehicle on the west or east tile :p
13:46:56  <frosch123> but looks good otherwise
13:47:09  <frosch123> on the south tile it is too much exposed, which makes it look empty
13:47:26  <andythenorth> there are limited options for combining windmill + other buildings
13:47:45  <andythenorth> if the blades overlap roof areas of the other buildings, they’re hard to see
13:48:47  <andythenorth> vehicle needs something drawn under it
13:50:06  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if the empty tile is always at the south, it looks not like a variation of the layout at all.
13:50:33  <andythenorth> hmm, let’s try east
13:51:11  <Eddi|zuHause> at least for me, the empty tile trumps every permutation of the other three buildings
13:51:12  <andythenorth> these fast compiles are good eh? o_O
13:51:52  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7343/windmill_granary_9.png
13:52:14  <Eddi|zuHause> that is much better
13:52:31  <andythenorth> agreed
13:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and now randomize the direction of the windmill based on local wind patterns :p
13:53:44  * andythenorth needs a pleasing windmill sound effect :P
13:54:25  <Eddi|zuHause> soomething wood-y?
13:55:22  <Eddi|zuHause> modern wind power plants make a "fwoop" sound whenever a blade passes the pillar
13:55:34  <Alberth> woosh
13:57:59  <Eddi|zuHause> dear cat. as adorable as you look sleeping with your feet up, i need this chair for sitting on, and you need to go away now.
13:58:28  <andythenorth> get two chairs
13:58:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have two cats blocking both chairs then.
13:59:19  <andythenorth> silos at the grain mill? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1149800#p1149800
14:01:57  * andythenorth thinks yes http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Boston_Thompson's_Flour_Mill.jpg
14:03:36  <frosch123> those silos look a lot more modern than the house
14:03:41  <frosch123> so, no :p
14:05:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the grain silos i know are nowhere near a mill...
14:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause> silos work well as a station building, though.
14:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i'm also against this change.
14:06:16  <frosch123> flour is also stored in silos
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14:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: have a flour silo explosion disaster ;)
14:12:49  * andythenorth leaves silos out for now
14:13:59  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: compared to fluor?
14:14:25  <frosch123> i would prefer a flour silo over a fluor silo
14:14:38  <andythenorth> is fluor a cargo? :P
14:14:47  * andythenorth doesn’t have enough cargo slots for it
14:15:26  <andythenorth> we should raise the limit to 127
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15:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: quite probably :p
15:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no, i meant grain dust explosions...
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15:15:11  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: as for fluor, maybe try one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckSoDW2-wrc ;)
15:16:29  <frosch123> well, make sure the silo is either full, or very empty
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15:24:49  * andythenorth considers playing a game
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16:00:29  * andythenorth plays the game
16:02:15  <Alberth> :)
16:03:01  <andythenorth> Busy Bee no less
16:03:28  <Alberth> makes sense
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17:05:27  <andythenorth> eh
17:05:40  <andythenorth> FIRS secondary processing
17:05:44  <andythenorth> delivery window
17:05:54  <andythenorth> 30 days | 90 days | 365 days
17:05:56  <andythenorth> parameter?
17:06:19  <Alberth> 365 is a bit long?
17:07:12  <andythenorth> 180?
17:07:31  <Alberth> looks ok-ish to me :)
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18:03:52  <andythenorth> hmm
18:04:11  <andythenorth> think it’s harder to change than I hoped
18:04:12  <andythenorth> eh nvm
18:07:52  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I pondered about that for FIRS long ago. I didn't find an appropriate solution beyond 1 month. Sadly, I have to say
18:08:07  <andythenorth> the production code switches would need duplicated
18:08:15  <andythenorth> and then switched depending on parameter
18:08:25  <andythenorth> it’s a bit ugly
18:08:35  <planetmaker> yes... but a floating average is very difficult. You quickly run out of storage
18:09:33  <andythenorth> maybe I just make the production window 60 days as a compromise
18:09:43  <andythenorth> I want to relax the 30 day limit a little
18:09:54  <andythenorth> eh, no, that still means changing all the switch code :P
18:09:55  <andythenorth> nvm
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18:52:22  <Alberth> why period based?
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18:53:13  <Alberth> ie stored provided supplies up to some max, and slowly eat it
18:53:26  <Alberth> if 0, go back to original production
19:01:52  <V453000> yay blender rendering set up :D
19:01:58  <V453000> only took 120379 hours
19:02:15  <Alberth> @calc 120379 / 24 / 365
19:02:15  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 13.7418949772
19:02:21  <Alberth> ok :)
19:02:36  <V453000> :)
19:05:05  <Alberth> but all blenders are go!   great :)
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19:09:32  <andythenorth> Alberth: secondary industry not primary ;)
19:10:10  <Alberth> hmm, what is the problem?
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19:10:47  <andythenorth> production is combinatorial for most secondary industry
19:10:58  <andythenorth> the ‘window’ is 30 days for delivering multiple cargos
19:11:11  <andythenorth> or so
19:11:22  <Alberth> ok
19:12:15  <Alberth> so what happens if I deliver cargo A  5tonnes, and 10 days later cargo B  8 tonnes?
19:12:45  <andythenorth> you get relatively more production from cargo B compared to the case where cargo A hadn’t been delivered
19:13:02  <Alberth> makes sense
19:15:18  <Alberth> so the problem is that window?
19:17:42  <andythenorth> yup
19:18:37  <andythenorth> actually I might have found it
19:18:38  <andythenorth> PRODUCTION_SPAN
19:19:35  <andythenorth> just replace that with a parameter, done
19:20:26  <Alberth> another problem solved :)
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19:23:42  <andythenorth> there will be more ;)
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19:24:29  <jottyfan> would like to understand the source code part of subsidies rejecting cargodist controlled cargo types, but cannot find that in wiki doc - and sources seem to be not that well documented... can anyone give me a little introduction please?
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19:27:04  <frosch123> it's in economy.cpp
19:27:24  <frosch123> and they are disabled because cdist might not route the cargo the way the subsidy requires it to go
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19:28:46  <frosch123> nvm. it's actually in subsidy.cpp: SubsidyMonthlyLoop()
19:30:38  <jottyfan> ok, I have a look...
19:33:02  <jottyfan> found that function, but cannot find the check itself that disables the subsidy
19:33:24  <Alberth> find the commit, and look what changed?
19:33:48  <jottyfan> but I don't know when the change happened
19:33:51  <frosch123> jottyfan: settings_game.linkgraph.distribution*
19:33:53  <jottyfan> seems to be years old
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19:34:29  <frosch123> _settings_game.linkgraph.GetDistributionType
19:34:32  <andythenorth> hmm this game is fun
19:34:56  <Alberth> @commit 25882
19:34:58  <DorpsGek> Alberth: Commit by fonsinchen :: r25882 trunk/src/subsidy.cpp (2013-10-19 13:17:29 +0200 )
19:34:59  <DorpsGek> Alberth: -Change [FS#5766]: Don't offer subsidies for auto-distributed cargo.
19:35:20  <Alberth> you can search commit log messages too :)
19:35:44  <jottyfan> ah
19:35:51  <jottyfan> r25882
19:35:59  <Alberth> or look at the commits that tocued the subsidy file
19:36:56  <jottyfan> I was looking at the history of subsidy.cpp, but I just have missed that one...
19:37:40  <jottyfan> so back to the question: the check to quit the subsidy is _settings_game.linkgraph.distribution_pax != DT_MANUAL
19:37:52  <Alberth> sounds right
19:37:53  <jottyfan> plus other checks != DT_MANUAL?
19:38:14  <frosch123> well, and GetDistributionType
19:38:31  <frosch123> the other ones are only pre-tests whether there is *any* cargo which is not distributed
19:41:18  <Alberth> what are you aiming to do?
19:41:23  <jottyfan> ok, thanks, that helped me a lot
19:41:39  <jottyfan> I just like to remove these checks locally and find out what happens
19:41:58  <frosch123> you should read fs#5766 about that :)
19:41:58  <jottyfan> I wonder why cargo dist should not accept subsidies
19:41:59  <Alberth> FS#5766 happens :)
19:42:25  <Alberth> in short, cdist has no clue about subsidies
19:42:27  <jottyfan> what is fs#5766? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=71214
19:42:38  <frosch123> @bugs 5766
19:42:38  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Temporary Offline
19:42:43  <frosch123> he
19:42:49  <frosch123> @flyspray 5766
19:42:51  <Alberth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5766
19:43:32  <frosch123> it's @fs :/
19:43:46  <jottyfan> yes, I've read this article also
19:44:05  <jottyfan> but I wonder why a subsidy should not only work on direct routes
19:44:26  <jottyfan> if it doesn't work on routes from a to c over b, I'd accept that
19:45:17  <Alberth> it's more that a subsidy from a to c    doesn't work for a - c - b passengers
19:45:48  <jottyfan> so if passengers from a to c get a subsidy, but passengers from a to b not, who cares?
19:46:37  <frosch123> different people, different opinions :)
19:46:45  <Alberth>  what about  z - a - c - b      from z to c ?
19:46:47  <jottyfan> therefore, I can build my own trunc
19:47:08  <jottyfan> ok, let's assume I have a cargodist good passengers
19:47:17  <jottyfan> and have a network a - b - c - d
19:47:24  <jottyfan> and get a subsidy from a to c
19:47:50  <jottyfan> then, only passengers entering on a and quitting on c should get a bonus
19:48:10  <jottyfan> passengers from b to c not, and passengers from a to d also not
19:49:00  <Alberth> well the reporter of FS#5766 had a different meaning
19:49:38  <jottyfan> but at all, I'd also accept if that route would not work for that subsidy and only accept a train from a to c
19:49:46  <Alberth> both can be correct
19:50:35  <jottyfan> yes
19:50:45  <jottyfan> maybe, we've got two kinds of subsidies
19:51:07  <Alberth> who says there are only 2 solutions?
19:51:23  <jottyfan> yes... who says...
19:51:33  <jottyfan> but at least we have two
19:51:36  <Alberth> it needs a general solution that makes sense for everybody
19:51:54  <Alberth> we couldn't find one, and disabled subsidies
19:52:33  <jottyfan> but - I really like cargodist, I think this is one of the best improvements compared to ttdx, but missing subsidies is a big step backwards
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19:53:12  <jottyfan> why not let the player choose if he wants subsidies on cargodist enabled?
19:53:37  <Alberth> why do you want subsidies?
19:53:40  <planetmaker> offering an option which potentially won't work *will* result rightfully in complaints and bug reports
19:53:59  <planetmaker> thus shipping something which is broken by design is not a good solution
19:54:10  <Alberth> if it's only for making the connection, you may want to try  busy bee instead
19:54:24  <planetmaker> I would recommend to people like you to use a game script to give you some goals for transport and stuff
19:54:36  <planetmaker> like busy bee :)
19:54:53  <Alberth> or hack a better one :)
19:55:18  <planetmaker> or extent busy bee :)
19:55:35  <Alberth> hmm, not sure how much room there is in BB
19:56:01  <Alberth> maybe it got cornered too much by being non-competitive
19:56:10  <andythenorth> fork it!
19:56:35  <Alberth> BC!  (bee competition)
19:56:38  <frosch123> noone forked busybee, despite both authors constantly requesting it :p
19:56:51  <planetmaker> bee -> busy bee -> capitalism bee -> burnout bee :P
19:56:57  <Alberth> bummer, and that after we decided to use eints :(
19:57:39  <frosch123> he, indeed, it took a hell of effort of the eints devs to convince the busybee devs
19:58:17  <planetmaker> :D
19:58:24  <frosch123> jottyfan: sorry about the in-jokes btw :)
19:58:30  <jottyfan> nevermind
19:58:43  <jottyfan> had a phone call and need to understand the chat history
19:58:44  <jottyfan> :-)
19:59:02  <jottyfan> so what's busybee?
19:59:22  <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/busy-bee-gs
19:59:32  <Alberth> a script giving you things to do
19:59:53  <jottyfan> that's nice
20:00:02  <jottyfan> this could replace subsidies?
20:00:11  <Alberth> it's also at bananas
20:00:33  <Alberth> well, it depends on how you see subsidies
20:00:44  <frosch123> jottyfan: the hope is in general to move disputed things to scripts/newgrfs, so people can have whatever they want
20:00:45  <Alberth> BB doesn't give anything
20:01:00  <jottyfan> let me call subsidies jobs with a reward
20:01:21  <jottyfan> so if I can have goals without in game subsidies, that would be fine to me
20:01:29  <Alberth> the only reward it gives is a message "you won a goal"
20:01:34  <jottyfan> the reward could be a sum of cash
20:01:43  <Alberth> yeah
20:01:56  <Alberth> so you have this zillion dollar company, and you need more?
20:02:01  <jottyfan> no
20:02:22  <jottyfan> I have a credit and get a reward to get money
20:02:43  <Alberth> k
20:02:55  <Alberth> in that case, BB wont' work
20:03:17  <jottyfan> because of the reward?
20:03:23  <frosch123> but you can also fork BB and add money rewards :)
20:03:23  <Alberth> yep
20:03:43  <jottyfan> sounds nive
20:03:45  <jottyfan> nice
20:03:56  <jottyfan> I'll have a look, thanks for the hint!
20:04:15  <Alberth> yw, and publish it so we can play it too :)
20:18:35  <jottyfan> of course
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20:29:20  <andythenorth> will nmlc actually process #includes?
20:29:30  <andythenorth> it seems to understand them somewhat when reporting errors
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20:46:01  <frosch123> it processes the #line which are output by the preprocessor
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21:36:02  <George> Hi.
21:36:08  <George> According to https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6314
21:36:42  <George> The NFO file was generated automatically from NML file
21:37:24  <George> How to find coresponding line in NML for the NFO warning/error string?
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22:29:38  <Wolf01> 'night
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