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Log for #openttd on 21st June 2015:
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00:04:24  *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-164-110.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
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00:30:43  <Gantradies> im not an expert on network, but  by sysadmin said its something to do with the gateway not using a default ip
00:31:39  <Gantradies> basically, teh console session keeps listing errors claiming teh ADvertiseing port isnt open, and my admin insists it is
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02:16:09  <Gantradies> *sigh* noone able to help?
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02:57:13  <Gantradies> anotherr check, anoyne up for hlaping me with a netweork issues with my server?
02:57:34  <Gantradies> soemtihng aobut it having issues with the gateway adress
03:01:20  <mari_kiri> Gantradies: What OS does your server run and is it a VPS?
03:01:43  <mari_kiri> Also I think the longest I've had to wait on IRC to get a question answered was about 24 hours
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03:12:28  <Gantradies> LOL
03:12:47  <Gantradies>  its win7 VM i believe
03:13:02  <Gantradies> win7 professional
03:13:12  <Gantradies> sorry ofr teh slow response kiri
03:14:48  <Gantradies> its saying it needs port 3979 forewarded on tcp and UDP even othugh it allready is
03:18:45  <Gantradies> my clans sysadmin said that its an issue with the game having issues finding the gateway adress, i believe
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03:25:36  <Gantradies> *sigh*
03:42:48  <mari_kiri> Gantradies: Can we assume that you have DHCP set up properly?
03:42:59  <mari_kiri> Also I can't really help much with Windows networking
03:51:40  <Gantradies>  yeah,  admin's been owrking in it since i could barely walk >.<
03:54:59  <Gantradies> if im remembering his explanation right, the issue is the gateway isnt using the default IP, and the game isnt realising this ( im running it in dedicated mode)
03:58:54  <ST2> Gantradies: are ports set on router to redirect to computer where server is set?
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05:15:02  <Gantradies> i assume so
05:15:26  <Gantradies> my origional server was running on a Linuix Vm console session, but  since it
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05:16:10  <Gantradies> but ren opened the prots for my windows vm runnign my space negineers server ( sicne i know iwndows a lot better sao i can do updates ect easier, plus i hate usiong nano to edit openttd.cfg >.<)
05:18:35  <andythenorth> o/
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06:03:57  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
06:04:07  <Alberth> moin andy
06:04:21  <Alberth> how is the train truck?
06:14:01  <andythenorth> well
06:14:11  <andythenorth> I did try converting Road Hog to trains
06:14:23  <andythenorth> but some of the properties don’t match up, so I reverted :P
06:20:56  <Alberth> no driving trains through small town streets thus :)
06:21:17  <andythenorth> hmm
06:21:19  <andythenorth> trains as RVs
06:21:50  <Alberth> oh dear, what have I done???? :)
06:23:29  <andythenorth> nah that’s just HEQS
06:34:54  <Supercheese> roads as railtype...
06:34:56  <Supercheese> hmm
06:36:38  <blathijs> Interesting seems a compiled 1.5.1 is a bit smaller than 1.5.0? :-)
06:39:45  <Pikka> beep beep
06:41:07  <Alberth> used same compiler?? :)
06:42:19  <Alberth> I played with nightfx for fun last night, and found two things. 1) the effect is gone as soon as you use a newgrf, 2) I like black diesel smoke  http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/black_smoke1.png
06:43:34  <mari_kiri> Alberth: Looks suspiciously like a bug that could be promoted to an optional feature
06:44:11  <Alberth> mari_kiri: hehe :)
06:45:04  <andythenorth> bonjour Pikka bob
06:45:09  <andythenorth> did you do roadtypes spec yet?
06:45:45  <andythenorth> Alberth: why is that signal emitting diesel smoke anyway? :P
06:46:58  <Alberth> smokin' busy  moving steel
06:55:57  <andythenorth> Alberth: iirc, with the effects callback you can change the smoke in newgrf :P
06:57:22  <Alberth> it might not even need effects cb, just change the default smoke?
06:58:16  <andythenorth> base set
06:58:20  <andythenorth> action A
06:58:21  <andythenorth> something
07:05:42  <Pikka> every time I came back to "single roadtype is easier". although having a seperate track-layer sprite might be useful. :)
07:07:10  <andythenorth> effectively there are already two types
07:07:12  <andythenorth> road / tram
07:07:19  <andythenorth> and all the stuff in place to handle that
07:07:43  <andythenorth> allow label-driven types for each of those, job done
07:08:02  <andythenorth> if we did 8 road, 8 tram, we’d only need 3 bits for each, not 4
07:08:03  <Pikka> I mean single roadtype per tile... which would mean making what we have now into 3 roadtypes...
07:08:13  <andythenorth> combinatorial hell :D
07:08:22  <Pikka> why?
07:08:34  <andythenorth> cobble road with tram tracks and no catenary
07:08:44  <andythenorth> cobble road with tram tracks and catenary
07:08:56  <andythenorth> etc
07:09:23  <Pikka> you don't need to combine every road surface with every tram variant unless you really want to. :) and if tram tracks were seperate sprites (but not seperately buildable layer) it wouldn't need any extra sprites.
07:11:20  <andythenorth> 1 type per tile saves a lot of bits
07:11:40  <andythenorth> well 9 or so
07:12:03  <andythenorth> owner, type
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07:13:22  <andythenorth> how would construction work though?
07:13:27  <Pikka> less fiddly to build if trammy-tiles autoconnect and we get rid of the half-tile turnarounds, make it so all trams have to be loops.
07:13:30  <Pikka> like current road I guess
07:13:42  <andythenorth> say I want to build a tram route, 50% over road and 50% over bare land
07:13:54  <andythenorth> I have to switch roadtype after 50%?
07:14:14  <andythenorth> first I choose ‘road with tram’
07:14:19  <andythenorth> then I switch to ‘tram'
07:14:20  <Pikka> yep
07:14:49  <andythenorth> and if I overbuild existing ‘road’ with ‘tram’ I get just tram
07:15:14  <Pikka> you'd probably have to use the convert tool, similar to trying to overbuild different types of rail
07:15:38  <Pikka> if you convert road to tram you get just tram, if you convert road to tram with road you get...
07:16:05  <andythenorth> so for trolleybus + tram, I need ‘road with trolleybus and tram'
07:16:52  <Pikka> yes. or electric tram if you let trolleybuses run under tram wires, which would seem sensible to me
07:17:04  <andythenorth> and for ‘sealed gravel road with 750V DC trolleybus and 3’6” 1500v tram with grooved rail"
07:17:09  <Pikka> yes
07:17:11  <Pikka> exactly
07:17:13  <andythenorth> yes
07:17:28  <andythenorth> well either route works for me
07:17:57  <andythenorth> I think tram and RV are separate, so I slightly favour roadtypes + tramtypes
07:18:19  <andythenorth> the other option has simplicity
07:18:47  <Pikka> I think if tram had, for example, signals or some kind of priority over RVs it could be seen as a seperate thing. but at the moment it's just a special-cased roadtype imo.
07:20:28  <andythenorth> what I did wrote yesterday https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p8bihm3u0/utk84y/raw
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07:24:15  <andythenorth> ‘drivethrought'
07:42:18  <andythenorth> Alberth: wondering about a variant of Busy Bee where it handles industry opening (and maybe closing)
07:43:08  <Alberth> closing isn't going to fly due to newgrf specs
07:43:45  <andythenorth> well
07:43:51  <andythenorth> we can ignore that for now
07:44:01  <Alberth> opening.....  setting it to 'none' industries, and opening each one ?
07:44:09  <andythenorth> the idea would be to start with a low-industry map (via map gen settings)
07:44:16  <andythenorth> and then have Busy Bee provide both industries and goals
07:44:34  <Alberth> should be feasible
07:44:35  <andythenorth> it needs enough variation that the gameplay isn’t 100% linear
07:44:45  <andythenorth> i.e. player still has some choices
07:45:06  * andythenorth increasingly also thinks that daylength might be a thing :P
07:45:08  <Alberth> you have several goals now too
07:45:27  <Alberth> in a game script? :p
07:49:04  <andythenorth> daylength in newgrf :P
07:49:18  <andythenorth> I dunno if I want to find all the places that ‘date’ and ‘days since’ are used :P
07:57:41  <Pikka> daylength is not a thing
07:58:02  <Pikka> people who think they want daylength actually want something else, eg fewer vehicle models, or a smaller map
07:58:13  <andythenorth> I want longer between vehicle introductions
07:58:26  <Pikka> then you need fewer vehicle models, clearly :)
07:58:39  <andythenorth> I have ‘solved’ it by playing after 2000 with my own newgrfs
07:58:48  <andythenorth> I cba to provide any new vehicles after 2000
07:59:00  <andythenorth> and all trains and trucks are leet by then anyway :P
07:59:02  <Pikka> me neither. or at least not "futuristic" vehicles
07:59:20  <Pikka> if we push back to 1900, that's still 100 years, right?
08:00:43  <andythenorth> ? o_O
08:00:58  <Pikka> original game provides vehicles 1950-2050
08:01:06  <Pikka> we provide 1900-2000, still the same amount of gameplay
08:01:24  <andythenorth> I provide 1860-2010
08:01:26  <andythenorth> 150 years
08:01:39  <andythenorth> “50% extra free"
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08:14:04  <Alberth> but still too many vehicles, apparently
08:14:39  <andythenorth> dunno
08:14:47  <andythenorth> considering adding a few more right now
08:15:07  <Alberth> maybe you shouldn't try using all of them in the same game :)
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08:18:32  <Supercheese>  too many vehicles --> "Hide vehicle"
08:29:12  <Alberth> you'd have to choose which ones you hide, and chosing is difficult :)
08:32:47  <Taede> create an age-based filter?
08:32:56  <Taede> hide all vehicles over 40years old
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08:36:00  <andythenorth> I think that’s a nice idea
08:36:09  <andythenorth> we could call it ‘vehicle expiry’ ? o_O
08:47:06  <Alberth> just randomly decide whether to introduce a vehicle :)
08:49:36  <andythenorth> nice idea
08:56:17  <andythenorth> eh it’s pretty silly that GS can’t close industry
08:56:22  <andythenorth> I know [because newgrf]
08:56:25  <andythenorth> but still
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09:00:40  <Alberth> quak
09:01:00  <frosch123> moin
09:15:30  <andythenorth> all trucks need to go same speed, per generation
09:15:36  <andythenorth> slow is boring
09:15:45  <andythenorth> ‘slow’ is also relative
09:19:30  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27311 /trunk/src (road_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2015-06-21 11:19:27 +0200 )
09:19:31  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Mark infrastructure window dirty in more cases. (marcole)
09:19:46  <peter1138> Why do they need to go the same speed?
09:21:10  <Alberth> avoid overtaking :p
09:22:11  <supermop> yo
09:26:40  <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-Rail#/media/File:Tri-Rail_train_Miami_Airport_train_station_2015-04.jpg
09:26:58  <supermop> trying to understand why there is a snowplow on that thing
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09:28:12  <frosch123> where is the third rail?
09:29:22  <andythenorth> there is no overtaking :{
09:31:53  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27312 trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp (2015-06-21 11:31:50 +0200 )
09:31:54  <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish [FS#6317]: Preserve town ownership of bridges when removing road from a road+tram bridge. (marcole)
09:33:04  <andythenorth> someone has been busy o_O
09:33:23  <supermop> pretty sure if they had snow in miami, let alone enough to need a snowplow, trains would not be running
09:34:32  <supermop> frosch123: but town doesn't build tram, so i would be removing the town's road?
09:34:35  <andythenorth> how do I get the faster trucks to pass the smaller trucks?
09:34:45  <andythenorth> even if I build dual carriageway sections they don’t use them
09:34:54  <andythenorth> pathfinder doesn’t seem to look ahead
09:35:06  <andythenorth> although curve penalty and so on should be equal for both routes
09:35:20  <andythenorth> road pathfinder ignores other vehicles I assume?
09:35:53  <supermop> yeah
09:35:55  <Alberth> I don't think so, they distribute themselves nicely at drive-through stations
09:36:29  <supermop> Alberth: when i have a drive through tram stop on a little loop at end of aa line,
09:37:09  <supermop> if 2nd tram is right behind the first, it will not go around the loop opposite way
09:37:18  <supermop> ive noticed with trucks too
09:37:41  <andythenorth> I think the game wants me to build trains?
09:37:42  <supermop> so if the 2nd is running late and needs to use the loop to pass the first, it cannot
09:38:00  <Alberth> I don't know the details, but if they fully ignore other vehicles, they'd never go around
09:38:45  <peter1138> Probably need to tweak penalties.
09:40:00  <frosch123> roadstops keep track on the "total length" of vehicles loading and heading to it per loading bay
09:40:12  <frosch123> the pathfinder adds that to penalties
09:40:24  <frosch123> normal road tiles are not checked for rv, that's far too expensive
09:40:50  <peter1138> Makes the cache (is it still cached) uselessish...
09:41:46  <supermop> 2nd vehicle only goes around if it is far behind the first
09:42:10  <supermop> but then in that case it has less need of the ability to pass
09:44:42  <andythenorth> it’s probably best ‘solved’ by newgrf design
09:44:52  <andythenorth> unify all the speeds, the issue disappears
09:45:58  <supermop> andythenorth: my problem arises most with a fleet of identical vehicles, but with one running late in the timetable
09:46:08  <supermop> basically 'bus bunching'
09:46:55  <andythenorth> but in that case the late one can’t overtake anyway?
09:47:00  <andythenorth> because they all have same top speed?
09:47:18  <supermop> could pass in loop if possible
09:47:49  <supermop> imagine tram #3 is stuck behind tram #4
09:48:15  <supermop> tram 4 is on time so will take full time at each stop, while #3 stayed late
09:52:33  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27313 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2015-06-21 11:52:30 +0200 )
09:52:34  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6317]: Adding tram to town-owned bridges assigned an incorrect owner to the tram and did not count infrastructure counts properly. (marcole)
09:53:19  <supermop> rigid busses do not have the problem - so long as there is at least one terminus bus stop on the route, theyy can lay up and let a bus pass
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10:10:27  <andythenorth> ha
10:10:31  <andythenorth> even the rigid trucks can’t pass :P
10:10:34  <andythenorth> too much oncoming traffic
10:13:41  <frosch123> well, add road usage to the pathfinder :p
10:13:58  <frosch123> add 6 busy bits for the 6 trackdirs per tile
10:14:22  <frosch123> set them in the vehicle tick for the trackbit the vehicle is on
10:14:27  <frosch123> and clear them in the road tileloop
10:14:39  <frosch123> that should give you some statistical usage result
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10:22:47  <andythenorth> uses up bits that could be used for roadtypes? o_O
10:22:48  <andythenorth> :P
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10:27:54  <peter1138> Just add more bits.
10:28:04  <peter1138> Everyone has 16GB RAM these days...
10:31:32  <andythenorth> 'everyone'
10:40:36  <Taede> i suppose i could photoshop a 1 in front of the 6
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10:42:47  <Alberth> just don't play 4096x4096 :)
10:45:54  <frosch123> it has never been about the ram, we have 2gb of sprtiecache. it has always been about savegame size and network join times
10:47:52  <frosch123> and about duchebags complaining that they cannot upload their 50 mb savegame of an empty map to fs or forums
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10:49:48  <frosch123> coulomb couldn't handle the load :p
10:51:05  <Alberth> :)
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10:59:23  <andythenorth> I dunno
10:59:32  <andythenorth> every time I complete a Busy Bee goal it gives me another one
10:59:38  <andythenorth> so I can never finish this game :(
11:01:34  <Alberth> computers are silly beings :p
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11:12:38  <andythenorth> busy roads are mesmerising in the game
11:12:50  * andythenorth sitting watching like a ninny
11:15:21  <Alberth> make a looping video, done
11:18:58  <supermop> i usually lose several years of game time to watching busy stations
11:20:05  <Alberth> I save, watch, reload, and continue editing :)
11:20:08  * andythenorth must to the seaside
11:20:14  <andythenorth> bbl
11:20:22  <Alberth> bye
11:20:55  <andythenorth> going to see this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_ARSE8jEHQ
11:20:56  <andythenorth> bye
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13:51:54  <Terkhen> hello
13:52:04  <Alberth> o/
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14:23:46  <frosch123> LordAro wanting to commit stuff... what is this madness :p
14:23:57  <LordAro> ikr
14:24:10  <LordAro> not my fault someone found a bug in aroai
14:24:23  <LordAro> well, it's more that i found some stuff that i never pushed
14:25:39  <LordAro> frosch123: ty :)
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14:33:11  <LordAro> wait, i made ~30 commits that i never released?
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14:38:39  <frosch123> did you have issues with sleep walking somewhen? :p
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14:41:54  <LordAro> :p
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15:23:16  * LordAro finds a `if (fullstop = false)` in his code
15:23:21  * LordAro burns it with fire
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16:03:22  <Alberth> I hope you found it quicker than I did, I needed at least 15 minutes for that :)
16:04:56  <LordAro> i wasn't even looking for it :p
16:05:05  <LordAro> it was just right there in front of me :)
16:05:46  <Alberth> :o  0 seconds thus :)
16:07:40  <LordAro> hmm, how do i do global enums in squirrel...
16:09:18  <Alberth> don't know if you can
16:09:25  <Alberth> a few constants in a class?
16:09:41  <LordAro> yeah, i suspect that's what i'll end up doing
16:09:48  <LordAro> silly squirrel
16:11:17  <frosch123> java lived for years without enums
16:11:50  <frosch123> c++ needed 40 years to make them well-defined
16:12:34  <frosch123> s/40/30/
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17:45:18  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27314 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2015-06-21 19:45:13 +0200 )
17:45:19  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:20  <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 4 changes by eirik174
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17:52:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27315 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2015-06-21 19:52:18 +0200 )
17:52:22  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Norwegian bokmal
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18:29:20  <LordAro> what's the best way to get passenger cargo id nowadays? i've fixed the bug, but it thinks it's building routes for tourists instead
18:32:17  <frosch123> the cargo label is always the best method
18:33:19  <frosch123> http://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/classAICargo.html#7e776eb92503c9ceaf55b3efd90780ad https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes
18:33:53  <frosch123> who wrote that note in the docs? :p
18:34:01  <LordAro> "Note: Never use this to check if it is a certain cargo. NewGRF can redefine all of the names." :p
18:37:38  <LordAro> so is it safe or not? :L
18:37:58  <frosch123> what do you want to do?
18:38:04  <LordAro> i've been using `(AICargo.HasCargoClass(i, AICargo.CC_PASSENGERS) && AICargo.GetTownEffect(i) == AICargo.TE_PASSENGERS)` until now
18:38:07  <frosch123> why do you care about pax vs. tourists?
18:38:26  <LordAro> dunno, should i?
18:38:32  <LordAro> i don't know what the differences are
18:38:44  <frosch123> towneffects is certainly the most undefined thing there is :p
18:38:53  <frosch123> anyway, why do you mind transporting tourists?
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18:42:16  <LordAro> i don't know :p
18:42:29  <LordAro> it seems that they're produced less than pax
18:43:25  <LordAro> but the vehicle that gets selected (code stolen from nocab long ago) can transport pax fine anyway
18:43:30  <LordAro> so, idk
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18:53:26  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27316 trunk/src/script/api/script_cargo.hpp (2015-06-21 20:53:23 +0200 )
18:53:27  <DorpsGek> -Doc: Improve documentation on ScriptCargo::GetCargoLabel
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18:59:44  <frosch123> why would someone use a dot in a class name in squirrel?
19:00:03  <frosch123> does it really allow that? or does it have some special meaning?
19:04:33  <LordAro> ?
19:10:13  <frosch123> see the squirrel2doxygen topic :)
19:11:59  <LordAro> i see
19:12:02  * LordAro shrug
19:12:33  <LordAro> hmm, how long does hg.openttdcoop.org take to update? it's lagging behind http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-aroai/repository
19:20:48  <LordAro> planetmaker: can has compile farm?
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19:41:22  <Terkhen> good night
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20:03:22  <andythenorth> o/
20:06:36  <frosch123> hoi
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20:11:20  * andythenorth has been watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9c8i0agSso
20:11:26  <andythenorth> only 2015 edition
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20:16:26  <Supercheese> Vulcan to OTTD?
20:16:35  <Supercheese> Could add it for kicks
20:16:48  <Supercheese> isometric sprites already exist for Civ3
20:17:05  <frosch123> vulcan was a east german ship manufactory that bankrupted in the 90s
20:17:45  <frosch123> ooops, it's west german
20:17:45  <Supercheese> sexy beast of an airplane
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20:18:09  <Supercheese> blows the canberra out of the water
20:18:15  <frosch123> i always thought it bankrupted together with all the other east german things
20:21:22  <andythenorth> Supercheese: it’s astounding, that is not hype
20:21:26  <andythenorth> last flying season this year
20:21:37  <Supercheese> sad panda
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21:22:42  <MeSaber> can i have someones attention about payment rates?
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21:23:32  <MeSaber> trying to figure out why my numbers dont correspond to what im testing
21:23:51  <MeSaber> and what "immediate" for passengers really mean
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21:41:45  <MeSaber> figured it out.. thx for help :D
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23:40:42  <Saladan2> !password
23:40:42  *** Saladan2 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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23:40:51  <Saladan2> woops, my bad
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23:51:08  <Speedy> whore
23:58:52  <Saladan0> :<

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