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Log for #openttd on 16th August 2015:
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12:15:13  <Wolf01> o/
12:21:08  <Alberth> hi hi
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16:17:05  <MIC132> Hi. I need a little help.
16:19:06  <MIC132> How do I delete servers from the sever list in the multiplayer menu?
16:21:24  <frosch123> if they are advertised to the master server, they will timeout themself
16:21:52  <MIC132> Mh.. I have three that show only by IP
16:22:01  <MIC132> And those are ones I joined more than a year ago
16:22:37  <MIC132> And one with a proper name and everything, though with a version mismatch. How long should it take for it to timeout?
16:22:44  <frosch123> i think there is also an option to save custom servers
16:22:58  <frosch123> but no idea how to remove them except by editing openttd.cfg
16:23:09  <MIC132> Hmm
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16:23:45  <MIC132> The servers are in openttd.cfg?
16:24:00  <frosch123> the custom saved ones
16:24:31  <MIC132> Ah, found them. Will just delete them from there. But it's kinda silly that you can't do this with a button in game
16:24:43  <MIC132> Same as with newGRFs, right? Can't delete them in-game.
16:26:58  <MIC132> Unless there is a way and I'm too stupid to find it.
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19:03:19  <Ether_Man> I'm trying to build a cyclotron. I've tried making an exact copy of https://wiki.openttd.org/images/d/d7/High-speed_merge_loop.png but even that does not work as intended for me. Rather than enter the cyclotron, trains sit at the double entry signal waiting for an opening, that never comes. So it's two things wrong even because even when there is an opening, the signal remains red :/  could have something to do with my path signals which are always red until
19:03:19  <Ether_Man>  a train comes up to it which turns it green or remains red but I've thought that was normal behavior, but looking at that screen, it seems it's not.
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19:06:48  <Sylf> fyi, cyclotron is largely useless.
19:07:04  <Sylf> It has a "Wow, cool!" effect once, and that's about it.
19:07:44  <Ether_Man> Quite possibly. I'm just trying to build different things to understand more of how the AI works and such
19:08:29  <Sylf> that cyclotron depends on rail_firstred_twoway_eol setting
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19:09:15  <Ether_Man> No idea what that means
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19:09:39  <Sylf> https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Two-way_end_of_line
19:13:54  <Ether_Man> hrm... Great... Now the AI jammed 5 trains into the cyclotron causing a complete deadstop inside... None of the trains can move
19:15:06  <Sylf> there are AIs that build cyclotron?
19:15:34  <Ether_Man> There's an AI that controls the pathing of trains and that of the signals. It's not an AI player, but it's still an AI
19:15:56  <Sylf> Please don't call that AI.  That confuses the entire rest of the community
19:15:59  <Sylf> Call it a path finder
19:16:44  <Alberth> that cyclotron has no protection against multiple trains entering, so yeah, it will deadlock
19:17:31  <Alberth> it's just a roundabout, which has the same problem
19:20:08  <Ether_Man> Well just one train remaining now that can enter it... Still never merges to the mainline because the double signal remains red at all times, regardless if there are trains coming or not. Even sent all the ML trains for testing to the depo so the entire ML is empty... Still not selecting that :/
19:20:38  <Sylf> Did you copy the cyclotron's size as well as the train size?
19:20:57  <Ether_Man> Yes
19:21:34  <Sylf> actually, that makes sens.
19:21:42  <Sylf> that image doens't look like a working cyclotron
19:22:00  <Sylf> wait.... it does.  It should work.
19:22:59  <peter1138> have you ever been on a train roundabout in real life?
19:23:18  <Sylf> Yup.  Tokyo and Osaka has 1 each :P
19:23:39  <Sylf> Tokyo one has 29 stations on the loop
19:23:41  <Ether_Man> peter1138, yes. They work VERY differently from a cyclotron, and for different purposes really :)
19:24:10  <peter1138> a railway loop with 29 stations isn't a roundabout.
19:24:19  <Sylf> :P
19:25:17  <Ether_Man> Rail roundabouts are used instead of turntables really. Much higher throughput, by using a much MUCH larger area.
19:26:23  <Sylf> that's a direction-switching loop or unloading/loading loop, not a roundabout
19:27:17  <Ether_Man> No. They're for connecting different loops together. Not for switching direction. Turntables can be used for switching direction but that's not really the only use for it
19:28:12  <Ether_Man> Yay. Found why it wasn't working :)
19:28:27  <Sylf> wrong presignals?
19:28:50  <Ether_Man> Had missed one signal right after the double after the merge. Didnt see it at first due to train :)(
19:29:13  <peter1138> if you need non-pathsignals and you can't get it working, you're probably doing it all wrong :p
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20:04:02  <Ether_Man> Meh. ML still stops at times due to merging train being too slow. And expanding the priority to stop that, makes trains stop at the double signal at times instead of going around the cyclotron :/
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21:04:19  <supermop> hello
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21:42:46  <Ether_Man> Have to ask, but are there any mods for getting a more real path and signaling system where trains will switch tracks to let other trains out? Like, looking ahead for where other trains will be later on, not just looking at how it looks currently and what tracks are currently reserved and thus, being travelled on?
21:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause> not really, but you can use combo signals for priority stuff
21:48:32  <Eddi|zuHause> or trickful usage of path reservations
21:48:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but that's definitely an underdeveloped side of openttd
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21:51:53  <Ether_Man> Yea. Reason was because that stuff looks really ugly, and uses up valuable space. And it also does not exactly do what I asked. Like, if you have a 2 track ML and a train wants to merge. Using realistic signaling, a train on the ML would switch over to the other lane in order to let the train on the sidetrack to merge without either train stopping. Like cars do on freeways.
21:52:35  <Wolf01> use waypoints?
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21:53:31  <Ether_Man> Err... I'm not sure you understand what I mean there... A waypoint would change absolutely nothing in this...
21:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the waypoint solution only works if you have exact timetabling
21:54:16  <Eddi|zuHause> so you know exactly which train needs to swich and which doesn't
21:54:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that is impractical on so many levels...
21:55:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Ether_Man: there's an open discussion about "programmable signals", that could add pathfinder penalties on certain conditions
21:55:42  <Wolf01> "Like cars do on freeways." lol
21:55:59  <Eddi|zuHause> potentially that could help in your situation
21:56:08  *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:56:40  <Ether_Man> Wolf01, dunno about where you live. Here, people almost always do, and it's even illegal not to do it. I pass police patrols at least once a month that checks that people are doing it too
21:58:04  <Ether_Man> Eddi|zuHause, http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47690 you mean?
21:58:44  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a newer patch
21:59:09  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73397
21:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause> they are both slightly different aspects of the same thing
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22:01:13  <Garfield222> hi
22:03:22  <Ether_Man> ProgSigs seems more along what I'm looking for. TTDpatch seems to still make decisions only based on train characteristics rather than track
22:03:43  <Garfield222> I am trying to look inside newgrf file. Have a litle problem. Is there some documentation about binary form of newgrf ?
22:04:58  <Garfield222> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page not found what I need.
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22:13:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Garfield222: you're going to have better luck with decoding the newgrf with grfcodec into textual form
22:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Garfield222: or just looking up the source code, which is available for many grfs
22:15:22  <Garfield222> I trying to make python version of grfcodec. Cannot understand how grfcodec does it.
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22:16:08  <Garfield222> if header 10 bytes is missing, I read 2 bytes length, then 1 byte type (mostly 0xFF), then 1 byte action.
22:16:45  <Garfield222> problem occure, what to do with type px
22:17:09  <Garfield222> with type 0x01 and action 0x0B ?
22:17:24  <Eddi|zuHause> there may be documentation about the binary grf format in openttd's loader section, or in grfcodec itself
22:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> also, nmlc may have bits and pieces
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23:14:39  <Wolf01> 'night
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