Log for #openttd on 19th November 2015:
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00:09:40  <Flygon> Both?
00:09:45  <Flygon> Mate, the channel's grown xP
00:09:50  <Flygon> And I'm about to go shopping
00:09:51  <Flygon> Am good tho
00:12:07  * Mazur is finishing up upgrading his fedora to 22.
00:12:14  <Mazur> And playing FreeCol.
00:12:30  <Mazur> And writing a perl/Gtk game.
00:12:50  * drac_boy throws some empty bags at flygon?
00:13:03  <Flygon> Shit
00:13:05  <Flygon> Bus leaves in 9
00:13:06  <Flygon> Bye
00:13:07  <Flygon> ._.
00:13:14  <Flygon> Go prod James!
00:13:20  <drac_boy> :p
00:13:40  <drac_boy> mazur, what kind of game genre?
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00:15:24  <Eddi|zuHause> <Eearslya> Yeah, google has this thing where their pages are obfuscated in javascript..I have no idea why. <-- i don't know why, but even though (or because?) i have javascript disabled, having a google search page open uses ridiculous amounts of CPU time (like 20%)
00:15:59  <Eddi|zuHause> for something that should be a static page...
00:16:21  <Mazur> Board game.
00:16:35  <Mazur> two of those, and a card game.
00:16:55  <Mazur> Computer versions of existing games.
00:17:50  <drac_boy> ah..does sound it freeware/shareware on release?
00:17:58  <Mazur> But an idea is brewing for a resource management/country development/people ruling the of game
00:18:46  <Mazur> Depends on the authors of the original games for the board games, otherwise freeware.
00:19:17  <drac_boy> I might like to try it then after all :)
00:20:12  <Mazur> Well, so far I've just been struggling to get an outline on the board square where the mouse is.
00:20:32  <Mazur> Learning Gtk on the fly.
00:25:25  <drac_boy> well thanks for doing it in gtk tho? :)
00:26:11  <Mazur> Should be easier, the idea was, use glade to design interface, use perl for the program.
00:26:28  <Mazur> Easy to change and test little stuff.
00:27:57  <Mazur> Only displaying an image on top of another image proved to be more involved than I had hoped.
00:28:44  <drac_boy> (I kinda hate games/apps that expect you to install almost an entire alternative DE just to run the bloody thing anyway)
00:29:04  * Mazur too.
00:31:43  <Mazur> And then they mess up the dependencies, so if not the exact version of a library is installed, it won't install, and on system upgrade they throw you in an infinite loop of dependencies.
00:38:09  <drac_boy> and don't forget systemd compounding basic things too
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00:40:59  <Mazur> Ah yes, I really _loved_ that coming out, and being used instead of regular init.d scripts I knew almost by heart.
00:42:27  <Mazur> And now they replaced ntpd and yum, as well.
00:42:54  <drac_boy> at least its good thing I prefer slack/bsd .. so I don't even have to touch some of the silly 'new' things atm .. to our own anyhow
00:43:32  <Mazur> Only they are just improved versions, so why the fuck change the name and commands, anyway?
00:44:39  <Mazur> Oh, and how I adore the 15 different roads to getting sound to play.
00:45:41  <Mazur> esd, artsd, pulse, plain OSS, plain ALSA, jack and who knows how many more....
00:46:14  <Mazur> And every game I like demands a different one.
00:47:14  <Mazur> So I have pulse running through ALSA with OSS compat running through JACK,
00:47:47  <Mazur> Or something like that.
00:48:04  <drac_boy> for me its just oss with the external audio hw coming through jack instead
00:48:21  <drac_boy> dunno why they keep wanting to change things than you know...stick to the old things that worked .. but meh :-s
00:51:26  <Mazur> Well,  the one wants the best possible latency, the other the best possible sound quality,  and they have a falling out over which of those is more important, so they make their separate version, and a third wants configurability,  but differently done.
00:51:31  <Mazur> Etc, etc.
00:51:51  <Mazur> And since the falling out, they refuse to even speak.
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00:56:07  <drac_boy> anyway I'm going for now but maybe another time ok mazur?
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01:39:23  <Flygon> Back
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04:31:38  <Eearslya> Eddi|zuHause: I wonder how google even detects missing javascript when supposedly the entire page is javascript..
04:32:32  <Flygon> I almost never /amsg, but this is extremely important. If you live in the US state of Georgia and registered to vote, please read this:
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08:05:56  <andythenorth> o/
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08:59:48  <planetmaker> \o
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10:54:51  <Wolf01> hi hi
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11:20:09  <__ln__> buongiorno signore
11:20:43  <Wolf01> ciao __ln__
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14:08:43  <FR^2> is there a way to add a halt to each of a group of e.g. busses?
14:09:41  <peter1138> Are you sharing orders?
14:10:56  <FR^2> Erm. Not sure what you mean. They all have the identical sequence of stops.
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14:18:46  <andythenorth> when does newgrf wiki sync its auth db to tt-forums?
14:19:03  <andythenorth> I have created a new forum user because I have been unable to log in to newgrf wiki for months
14:19:06  <andythenorth> but the new user fails too
14:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> FR^2: "identical" and "shared" are different things
14:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> FR^2: you create shared orders with ctrl+click
14:21:22  <FR^2> Ah, yes, I'm reading the wiki right now, thanks, that is the keyword I was looking for
14:23:28  <FR^2> cool thing :) Thanks
14:24:21  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you should highlight o ru dge about that
14:31:56  <Mazur> "o ru dge"?
14:32:24  <Mazur> %=}
14:46:16  <peter1138> ofudge
14:47:02  * andythenorth inventing industries
14:47:29  <TrueBrain> owh! FUDGE! What did I do ...
14:47:32  <TrueBrain> ? :D
14:48:47  * Mazur remains unconvinced.
15:00:41  <andythenorth> or I could post newgrf wiki edits here and one of you could put them in :P
15:03:06  <TrueBrain> it is one easy way to receive a ban, indeed :D
15:03:09  <TrueBrain> <3 :D
15:04:25  <andythenorth> or I could just stop maintaining the newgrf wiki, also :)
15:04:31  <andythenorth> easiest
15:04:41  <TrueBrain> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
15:04:42  <TrueBrain> :D
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16:03:04  <Wolf01> o/
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16:07:45  <Alberth> moin
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16:46:19  <Eearslya> Alberth: I replied to your comment a couple days back, FYI XD
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16:46:46  <Alberth> I saw, but I have to try it, which I haven't done yet
16:47:20  <Eearslya> Aha
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17:21:03  <Wolf01> bye
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17:58:51  <andythenorth> o/t anyone here know about Wii U controllers?
17:59:01  <TrueBrain> white things
17:59:03  <TrueBrain> about this long
17:59:06  <andythenorth> I need 4 on christmas day, and they need to not suck
17:59:07  <TrueBrain> used to control a WiiU :P
17:59:09  <TrueBrain> :D
17:59:10  <andythenorth> and I don’t have 4
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18:17:07  <argoneus> truebrainfriend
18:17:26  <argoneus> andythenorth: can't you use craigslist or whatever
18:17:27  <argoneus> ebay
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18:52:22  <mczapkie> Hello
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19:04:51  <Eddi|zuHause> is there even more than one type of WiiU controller?
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19:08:14  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: unfortunately there appear to be 4 from nintendo
19:08:21  <andythenorth> and then there are third party options
19:08:36  <andythenorth> and Wii controllers _may_ also be compatible, but that’s unclear, and maybe only for some games
19:08:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming you have one. just get more of that exact same type
19:08:55  <andythenorth> the one in the box is the one with the screen and costs 0
19:09:03  <andythenorth> and you might only be able to use one or two per Wii U
19:09:19  <andythenorth> the Gamecube controllers might work with a USB adapter, but maybe only in Super Smash Bros
19:09:20  <Eddi|zuHause> then maybe you should read the manual?
19:09:29  <andythenorth> I don’t have the Wii U yet :P
19:09:36  <andythenorth> and the internet is not yet helpful
19:09:49  <andythenorth> it seems that you have to pick the game you want to play first, then buy controllers for it
19:09:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid i'm not helpful either
19:09:53  <andythenorth> :D
19:10:06  <andythenorth> I wasn’t hopeful in this channel tbh :)
19:10:19  <andythenorth> but I am avoiding Facebook, because of many reasons
19:11:32  * andythenorth back to FIRS :P
19:11:48  <andythenorth> should a car dealer industry accept petrol?
19:11:58  <andythenorth> or should I just make it a ‘garage'?
19:12:03  <andythenorth> how does it work in other countries?
19:12:46  <Eddi|zuHause> car dealers and fuel stations are completely separate here
19:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause> and "garage" means something completely different
19:13:35  <mczapkie> Garage is an obsolete version of car dealer, workshop and gas station 3 in 1
19:13:50  <Taede> though occasionally there might be a service station right outside a dealership, but that is coincidence, they usually aren't connected otherwise
19:15:11  <andythenorth> in the uk, garage is now either workshop or petrol station, they used to be often combined, but now mostly aren't
19:15:22  <andythenorth> and some also sold cars, but now mostly don’t
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19:17:37  <mczapkie>
19:17:59  <frosch123> here petrol stations are usually combined with a car wash
19:18:15  <mczapkie> they sold or even assembled cars, repair them and sold gasoline, now it evolved
19:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, in german, "Garage" is just the (enclosed) place where you put your car overnight
19:18:22  <frosch123> well, and a grocery/stuff store
19:18:40  <mczapkie> but in heyday of automobilism, there was no gas stations
19:18:55  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that in the UK too P
19:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it evolved completely differently in germany. in the early days, gas was sold at apothecaries, and later it was separated. it never merged with car dealers/repair shops (probably for storage licensing reasons)
19:20:43  <mczapkie> you can make Garages (in pre-war meaning) accepting both, and gasoline station and car dealer which appear later
19:20:47  <frosch123> i have seen some old repair shops with petrol station
19:20:52  <frosch123> never a car dealer though
19:21:12  <mczapkie> I done such thing with ECS extension set
19:21:24  <andythenorth> mczapkie: you gave me the idea ;)
19:21:35  <andythenorth> it happened to fit exactly to something I wanted to do in FIRS
19:21:38  <andythenorth> spooky timing :)
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19:22:31  <mczapkie> but in ECS there are stockpile limits and such evolvng havebut I'm not sure if such idea bring anything to FIRS except eye candyness
19:23:00  <mczapkie>  in ECS there are stockpile limits and such evolving make sense
19:23:21  <andythenorth> in this case I just need one extra industry
19:23:24  <andythenorth> petrol station I have already
19:23:45  <andythenorth> I wondered if I should merge petrol station + car dealer, but I think not
19:24:18  <mczapkie> vehicles are ENSP or just another new cargo?
19:25:48  <andythenorth> vehicles - new cargo
19:26:09  <andythenorth> but I intend to add an industry for vehicles -> ENSP
19:26:13  <andythenorth> it will be a long chain, but eh
19:26:48  <andythenorth> I am adding ‘machinery dealer’ or ‘supply yard’, not sure which yet
19:26:57  <andythenorth> I have sprites for supply yard, that might influence the decision :P
19:27:41  <mczapkie> at least PKP car shuttle wagons will be functional for FIRS
19:28:16  <andythenorth> :)
19:28:23  <mczapkie> PKP author don't want to use vehicle sprites as ENSP because ENSP are in crates
19:28:29  <andythenorth> fair
19:28:36  <andythenorth> I have a pretty nice Scandinavan-ish economy for Basic Arctic
19:28:43  <andythenorth> it has a problem with food though :P
19:29:03  <andythenorth> all food is livestock or fish :P
19:29:17  <andythenorth> I don’t want to add dairy, because that’s too similar to Basic Temperate
19:29:30  <mczapkie> maybe grain from harbour?
19:29:33  <andythenorth> grain is boring, FIRS uses it in most economies :)
19:29:36  <andythenorth> but maybe
19:29:48  <andythenorth> there are no vegetables in FIRS at all
19:30:01  <andythenorth> could add those
19:30:18  <andythenorth> ‘farm produce’ <- lazy cargo o_O
19:30:42  <mczapkie> potatoes are vegetables
19:30:56  <mczapkie> and can be use to make potatoes juice
19:31:00  <mczapkie> 40%
19:31:14  <mczapkie> thery popular in Scandinavia
19:32:03  <mczapkie> (sorry for typos, I need to clean my keyboard)
19:33:54  <andythenorth> :)
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19:34:28  <andythenorth> I could add potatoes
19:34:35  <andythenorth> or root vegetables? more flexible?
19:34:38  <andythenorth> or just vegetables?
19:36:52  <mczapkie> vegetables are ok, but what to do with them? go to food processor or shop?
19:37:18  <andythenorth> yeah, exactly
19:37:23  <andythenorth> they have to go to food processor
19:37:26  <mczapkie> BTW these Firs shops are bloody creatures, they steal fruits from brewery
19:37:36  <andythenorth> otherwise farm might as well just make ‘food'
19:37:56  <andythenorth> fruit going to shop is dumb
19:38:07  <andythenorth> I thought it was a reasonable suggestion so I added it :P
19:38:12  <andythenorth> but it’s daft
19:38:54  <andythenorth> I should make it go via the food processor
19:40:09  <mczapkie> it makes sense
19:41:20  <andythenorth> will end up with food processor in every economy :P
19:41:27  <andythenorth> boring :P
19:42:14  <mczapkie> not sure how simply/complicated must to be Your economy
19:42:31  <mczapkie> potatoes give fork to food processor and brewery
19:42:53  <mczapkie> vegetables is too general term
19:43:56  <andythenorth> it’s a basic economy :)
19:44:05  <andythenorth> I’ve just pushed, I’m waiting for bundles to build the docs ;)
19:46:22  <mczapkie> will these vehicles have mass 2.5t like ECS one, or different?
19:46:55  <mczapkie> because my road set is adjusted to carry as much items as load mass allow
19:47:36  <andythenorth> I haven’t thought about that yet :)
19:47:50  <andythenorth> I would guess about 1t / unit
19:47:56  <andythenorth> maybe more
19:48:53  <mczapkie> I must to use cargo_unit_weight instead of hard-coded coefficient to adapt my load capacity
19:49:15  <andythenorth>
19:49:25  <andythenorth> ^ not complete yet, some industries need swapped / added
19:49:42  <andythenorth> and I want to make Fish be an export cargo, but not sure how
19:51:05  <mczapkie> how to magify this flow chart?
19:51:18  <andythenorth>
19:51:19  <mczapkie> ok, got it, show frame
19:51:33  <andythenorth> it has problems in some browsers
19:51:38  <andythenorth> IE especially
19:52:12  <andythenorth> it’s basically the ‘Volvo’ economy :P
19:52:19  <mczapkie> not sure if general store is needed in arctic climate
19:52:32  <andythenorth> need some town destination for food
19:52:46  <andythenorth> got alternative suggestion? o_O
19:54:04  <mczapkie> towns accept food themselves
19:55:09  <andythenorth> yair :)  But not if player uses a different climate, or house set or so on :)
19:55:37  * andythenorth wonders about Fish -> Port
19:56:19  <andythenorth> Fish -> Fishing Harbour -> Frozen Fish -> Port :P
19:57:00  <mczapkie> I tought that this set will work only for Arctic climate
19:57:23  <mczapkie> if not, of course food black hole is mandatory
19:57:37  <andythenorth> I keep it flexible per climate :)
19:58:41  <mczapkie> and what about ski resort instead of this boring hotel thing?
19:59:09  <mczapkie> for example some TARS objects etc, located at slope
19:59:37  <andythenorth> I wanted it to be this hotel :)
19:59:54  <andythenorth> which is canada, but is a ski resort...
20:00:11  <mczapkie> wow
20:00:41  <mczapkie> generally, I meant to make hotels outside town
20:01:03  <andythenorth> in remote areas?
20:01:22  <Eddi|zuHause> on hilltops? ECS tourist center style?
20:01:25  <andythenorth> maybe
20:01:27  <andythenorth> although
20:01:36  <andythenorth> this economy is one of the only ones without alcohol cargo
20:01:49  <andythenorth> nordic hotels without alcohol? :o
20:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> alcohol has crazy taxes on it up there...
20:02:32  <mczapkie> as I said, potatos and potato juice
20:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause> (i think. i've never actually been north of Gedser (Denmark))
20:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> (and that was in the early 90's, when i didn't care about alcohol. or prices)
20:03:47  <Eddi|zuHause> mczapkie: wasn't it the polish that made vodka from potatos?
20:05:52  <andythenorth> I left out alcohol deliberately :)
20:06:01  <andythenorth> the thing with basic economies is
20:06:17  <mczapkie> that they are basic
20:06:23  <andythenorth> they have to have: mail, pax, goods, mnsp, ensp, fmsp
20:06:52  <andythenorth> they start to look a bit the same
20:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause> why do they need all the supplies?
20:07:18  <andythenorth> they’re pretty unavoidable in FIRS
20:07:32  <andythenorth> mnsp could be eliminated, but it would be difficult
20:07:39  <andythenorth> also chemicals seems to be needed in all of them
20:07:51  <andythenorth> and fish, because ‘people like sea based industry'
20:08:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have 6 fixed. you can  use 10 out of like 30 others to mix things up
20:08:09  <andythenorth> yes
20:08:18  <andythenorth> hence desire to drop alcohol, which is in all other economies
20:08:26  <mczapkie> in case of basi industry, maybe general 'supplies' are enough
20:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you could try merging farm/engineering supplies
20:09:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and have that the difference between "basic" and "extended" economies
20:09:37  * andythenorth ponders wood -> sauna :P
20:10:12  <mczapkie> I found strange bug related to road vehicles custom sound
20:10:27  <mczapkie> not sure if it is my fault or openttd bug
20:10:32  <andythenorth> you managed to compile with road vehicles custom sound? :o
20:10:48  <andythenorth> I tried adding them to HEQS, but compile failed
20:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds need very special format
20:11:44  <mczapkie> yes, I have this format, it works ok
20:11:57  <mczapkie> if only one road vehicle grf is loaded
20:12:38  <mczapkie> for example sound_effect: sound("src/sfx/Jelczdoors_ermfilm.wav"); play this sound if started
20:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause> mczapkie: it probably doesn't hurt to report it. make sure you attach a test grf to reproduce it
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20:13:06  <mczapkie> but if two grfs are loaded, sound are swapped
20:13:40  <mczapkie> ok, I will make simply grf and check it
20:17:05  <mczapkie> horses are honking, trucks are ringing and trams are whining
20:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i read a poem for children that went like that :p
20:19:22  <frosch123> the summoning dark cannot handle those
20:22:59  <andythenorth> hmm
20:23:06  <andythenorth> maybe scandinavians just eat meat and fish
20:23:12  <andythenorth> no other food groups? o_O
20:25:29  *** Arveen [] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 -]
20:25:52  <oskari89> andythenorth: Potatoes and rye / oat grain? :P
20:27:05  <oskari89> Maybe also, sugar beet -> sugar -> bakery?
20:27:18  <andythenorth> potatoes -> frozen chip factory -> food? :P
20:29:41  <mczapkie> fish -> rotten fish -> food (rakfish)
20:29:58  <andythenorth> ha ha
20:33:26  <Eddi|zuHause> do they only make these to troll tourists, or is there actually a way to make them an enjoyable meal?
20:36:12  <andythenorth> I saw a video recently of people being sick eating rakfish
20:36:16  <andythenorth> edifying
20:36:43  <andythenorth> eh, so this economy could just import food
20:36:48  <andythenorth> which is simplest
20:44:00  <andythenorth> but it also exports food
20:44:03  <andythenorth> due to fish :P
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20:48:53  <andythenorth> my TV has an earworming TV ad for ‘Norwegian Seafood - fresh from the cold, clear waters of Norway’ on heavy repeat :P
20:49:27  <planetmaker> :)
20:50:02  <planetmaker> those sea food farms are funky. At night they switch under-water lights on and off so that the fish eat more during night
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20:58:52  <andythenorth> ‘frozen seafood’ cargo? o_O
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21:39:16  <andythenorth> ha
21:39:27  <andythenorth> 8 crates ENSP produced per 8 vehicles delivered
21:39:28  <andythenorth> :P
21:42:31  <mczapkie> these variables in industry window are indexed by hex or dec?
21:42:57  <andythenorth> ?
21:43:42  <mczapkie> newgrf debug information
21:43:52  <mczapkie> Yen button
21:44:34  <andythenorth> ha that’s the ‘bug’ icon I drew
21:44:51  <andythenorth> these vars are the numbers in nfo spec
21:45:16  <andythenorth>
21:46:07  <mczapkie> but these are decimal numbers?
21:46:41  <mczapkie> ok, I see
21:46:47  <mczapkie> hex
21:48:27  <mczapkie> I need to modify production depending on nearby tiles, but have no acces to negative indexes for industry
21:48:45  <mczapkie> therefore I must make different layouts and check layout number
21:50:09  <andythenorth> you can’t get negative offsets?
21:50:16  <andythenorth> which cb is this?
21:50:29  <andythenorth> iirc, most of them are signed
21:50:40  * andythenorth might be wrong
21:50:40  <mczapkie> for industry only 0..15 offset can be used
21:50:58  <mczapkie> for industry tile positive or negative
21:51:28  <andythenorth> are you checking for nearby houses or something?
21:51:28  <mczapkie> I need to check vicinity around industry but can only south est
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21:51:43  <mczapkie> no, river tiles for water treatment station
21:51:57  <mczapkie> more tiles, highest production
21:52:11  <andythenorth> your using var 62?
21:52:16  * andythenorth wonders why it’s unsigned
21:53:06  <andythenorth> how often does it change?  You could check from the tile in a tile loop, or animation, and write to permanent storage in the industry
21:53:38  <mczapkie> nearby_tile_water_class
21:54:38  <mczapkie> basically one can assume that it can be checked once during construction
21:57:39  <andythenorth> what if river is destroyed during game?
21:59:30  <mczapkie> production will stay the same
21:59:58  <andythenorth> yeah checking on construction makes sense then ;)
22:00:06  <andythenorth> mczapkie: are you in this channel most days?
22:00:21  <mczapkie> I'm using location check for tiles, prepared different layouts for different river tiles count and made industry production check based on var[44]
22:01:00  <mczapkie> usually I have no time to stay on IRC, but today my wife went to another town :)
22:01:07  <andythenorth> ha
22:01:27  <andythenorth> my wife doesn’t care if I’m on irc or not, as long as dinner is made and the kitchen is tidy
22:02:33  <andythenorth> making FIRS is more fun when other people are working on newgrfs too :P
22:03:38  <mczapkie> BTW, how to enable compiling on jenkins?
22:04:39  <mczapkie> somebody put one my project on jenkins but didn't figure how to perform it
22:04:53  <mczapkie> with other project
22:05:04  <andythenorth> you need the .devzone files
22:05:07  <andythenorth> I’ll find the FIRS one
22:05:27  <andythenorth>
22:05:44  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: can you fix my dinner too?
22:05:50  <mczapkie> thanks, I will check these for this project wich is already on jenkins
22:06:47  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: yeah, in a bit
22:06:52  <andythenorth> will you do my washing?
22:07:08  <mczapkie> I tried to fix dinner once, but kitchen was not tidy aftermath
22:07:12  <TrueBrain> least I can do I guess
22:08:38  <andythenorth> so keep Iron Ore (because Kiruna mine is very big and served by big trains), or replace with frozen seafood?
22:10:30  <andythenorth> this economy is very short on primary industry, I think keep iron ore
22:11:22  <mczapkie> in my opinion, iron ore trade for bauxite is interesting option
22:11:49  <andythenorth> it’s not weird?
22:11:54  <andythenorth> it’s realistic :P
22:12:58  <mczapkie> but from gameplay view, not sure about double use of chemials for aluminium plant and again metal workshop
22:13:42  <mczapkie> maybe factory instead of metal workshop: metal+wood (Ikea etc)
22:13:53  <andythenorth> interesting idea
22:15:18  <mczapkie> this would give 2 independend sources for goods
22:15:39  <mczapkie> now chemicals are double mandatory
22:16:09  <mczapkie> 3 destination for chenicals is enough
22:16:18  <andythenorth> yeah, chemicals became a fundamental cargo in FIRS, they seem to go everywhere :P
22:17:09  * mczapkie is going AFK to finish ECSext
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22:17:41  <andythenorth> bye
22:17:44  * andythenorth bed
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22:55:31  <__ln__> lupo della notte
22:55:53  <Wolf01> lupo notturno
23:01:02  <Eddi|zuHause> "la notte" was a tv show here that was not very kid-friendly :p
23:01:05  <Supercheese> lupus noctis
23:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: not "nocturnis"?
23:02:42  <Supercheese> I think "della notte" would imply a genitive "of the night" rather than an adjective "nocturnal"
23:02:49  <Supercheese> but ymmv
23:03:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i never know what ymmv is
23:03:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you tell me, i'll forget by the next time someone writes it
23:04:17  <Supercheese> eh perhaps not a good use of that, more like, "suit yourself". But it is "Your mileage may vary", referencing "EPA estimates X miles per gallon" but they disclaim that this is an estimate only and your particular mileage could be different
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23:05:15  <Supercheese> in this case I perhaps should have instead said, "that's how I see it"
23:06:19  <Supercheese> and most folks in Europe use liters and kilometers anyway rather than miles and gallons
23:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: sure, your reasoning is perfectly valid, but the premise that __ln__ knows what he's talking about may be unstable :p
23:06:53  <Supercheese> perhaps ;)
23:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd rather trust an italian guy talking italian than a finnish guy talking italian :p
23:11:05  <mczapkie> OK, task finished (new water source for ECS is working)
23:11:21  <mczapkie> Good Night everybody
23:11:30  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: i've successfully ordered ice cream in italian.
23:11:47  *** mczapkie [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: well, people in europe used to use miles, but the problem was that everybody used a different mile
23:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> while the british imperial mile is around 1.6km, the german mile was 7.5km
23:12:31  <Supercheese> yeah, Roman miles, Scots miles...
23:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and the "german mile" was already a compromise between all the different miles used in the various german states
23:12:31  <Supercheese> can't forget Nautical miles
23:12:31  <Supercheese> sheesh
23:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the common bit about all the german miles was "2 hours at walking speed"
23:12:31  <Supercheese> well, I'm glad for automated unit conversions we have these days
23:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> or at least most of them
23:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but "walking speed" isn't particularly standardized
23:12:31  <Supercheese> my handheld calculator at least has always been able to convert the units I needed automatically
23:12:39  <Supercheese> __ln__: not gelato? :O
23:13:04  <__ln__> Supercheese: well, gelato, but that's italian and this channel is english only
23:13:09  <Supercheese> unless there isn't a distinction between the two in Italy
23:13:16  <Supercheese> there sure is here at least
23:13:46  <Supercheese> if you go to the store and ask where the "ice cream" is and the "gelato" is, you're pointed to two very different places
23:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause> the distinction is not very strong in german. people just say "ice" and context defines which one is meant
23:14:04  <Supercheese> and often two very different stores
23:14:37  <__ln__> Wolf01: c'Ú una differencia entre gelato e ice cream?   (pardon my half-spanish)
23:14:53  <Wolf01> no
23:14:58  <Wolf01> it's the same thing
23:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i just misunderstand what Supercheese is actually referring to
23:16:40  <Supercheese> well, here in the States, gelato is not at all equivalent to ice cream, but perhaps elsewhere this is not the case
23:16:57  <Supercheese> they are similar but very distinct
23:18:32  <Wolf01> maybe gelato in the States is what we call "granita", which is just grounded ice with flavoured syrup
23:18:36  <__ln__> "italian ice cream" (at least translated into some language, not necessarily in english) is a distinct concept elsewhere, too
23:19:25  <Supercheese> yeah, I consider "Italian ice cream" and "gelato" synonymous
23:19:58  <Supercheese> the latter being far more common;y used (and concise)
23:20:02  <Supercheese> ly*
23:20:09  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are different types of ice cream in germany. like "Speiseeis", which you'd usually serve as small balls in a cone or a glass. or "Softeis" which is squished out of a machine into a cone, or "Eis am Stiel", which is prefabricated on a stick, or "Wassereis" which is frozen water with usually some fruit taste. or simple "Eis" which is plain frozen water
23:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "italian ice cream" places would usually serve the first kind
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23:29:35  <__ln__> spaniards call it helado, but i think it's quite much the same type of thing as gelato that they sell in the heladerias.
23:35:54  *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
23:35:56  <drac_boy> hi
23:36:25  * drac_boy throws a metric steam valve wrench into sim-a12's direction :)
23:36:26  <drac_boy> heh
23:36:39  <Supercheese> a primary difference seems to be percent fat content, with gelato minimum 3.5% compared to ice cream's 10%
23:36:55  <Supercheese> (butterfat, that is)
23:46:01  <Flygon> Gelato is an independant product in Aussierand
23:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never looked at the fat content of these products
23:53:39  <Eddi|zuHause> PS: "low fat" usually means "more sugar", which is probably even worse...
23:55:20  <Supercheese> yep...
23:58:01  <Wolf01> oh finally i can use the logistic robots in factorio

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