Log for #openttd on 13th December 2015:
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01:09:51  <drac_boy> hi
01:20:20  <argoneus> hi drac_boy friend
01:20:39  <argoneus> drac_boy: I wanted to tell you before
01:20:41  <argoneus> you can buy factorio
01:20:47  <argoneus> and refund it if it doesn't run
01:21:14  <drac_boy> ah ok :)
01:21:19  <drac_boy> either way what you doing atm?
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01:22:00  <argoneus> watching game of thrones
01:22:01  <argoneus> you?
01:22:51  <drac_boy> not much atm..just kinda wondering a bit about vehicles (the real ones sorry heh)
01:23:51  <argoneus> heh
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01:29:08  <drac_boy> I did kinda wonder about seeing Spectre .. we'll just have to see when then
01:37:09  <drac_boy> kinda funny that I think its the first bond movie to be reusing a car from a much earlier time tho .. the austin martin yeah
01:37:31  <drac_boy> admittly I think someone reviewing the trailer mentioned that it had a few features less than the original one
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01:53:29  <drac_boy> anyway think going for now
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08:19:58  <andythenorth> o/
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08:34:07  <Alberth> o/, and o/
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09:01:18  <andythenorth> can I make a railtype which forbids junctions and signals?
09:01:54  * andythenorth looks
09:02:28  <Alberth> sounds very weird
09:03:23  <andythenorth> pipelines
09:03:42  <andythenorth> one vehicle per track
09:03:58  <andythenorth> use transfer stations (‘pumping stations’) for longer routes, or to split cargo
09:04:19  <andythenorth> I use PIPE grf a lot, but thinking of making my own version
09:04:35  <andythenorth> routing PIPE like normal trains is weird
09:05:05  <Alberth> I suspected already it's for your pipelines :)
09:05:55  <andythenorth> I can’t see us adding a new type for this ever
09:06:11  <andythenorth> especially because Factorio
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09:21:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the answer is no
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09:38:12  <andythenorth> so I see
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10:21:52  <Wolf01> o/
10:31:35  <Alberth> o/
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11:07:17  <Alberth> o/
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11:20:34  <frosch123> hoin
11:25:04  <Eddi|zuHause> cat in a box
11:27:27  <frosch123> i like how some people write stuff in all caps, and how they struggle when they encounter a ß
11:28:46  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i came across such a line earlier, but i don't remember where
11:29:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i found it funny because you could easily confuse "groß" with "grob"
11:29:32  <frosch123> i get assigned a new ip every day, and my browser is configured to reveal as little as i mananged to configure it
11:30:04  <frosch123> result is, the first time i visit youtube each time, it gives me the german mainstream bullshit
11:30:07  <frosch123> which i never watch
11:30:26  <frosch123> only after i enter the first thing into the searchbar, i get my regular targetted stuff
11:31:11  <Eddi|zuHause> they introduced this new "trend" category, where you can get back to the regular german mainstream stuff :p
11:32:08  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... i would just write SS...
11:34:26  <frosch123> i know 4 versions: ß (single lower case letter between all caps), SS (likely the normal thing to do), SZ (the artist way to do it), ï¿œ (unicode uppercase ß, which no font knows what to really draw for)
11:35:00  <Alberth> ha, big cats like boxes too :)
11:36:30  <frosch123> the big cats even like humans
11:37:04  <Wolf01> the same way they like their lunch?
11:37:20  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i get a "missing glyph" glyph
11:37:21  <frosch123> likely
11:37:32  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i expected no less :)
11:38:02  <frosch123> it's just forwarding the problem to the font guys
11:38:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess there is such a thing as "too nerdy" to implement :p
11:40:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i once got told this story, that in the early days of computing (before computers could do ß), the west germans put "ss", and the east germans put "sz", so when the computers finally could do ß, the east germans could more easily roll it back...
11:41:05  <frosch123> i heard the same story, but about type writers around 1890
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11:41:28  <Eddi|zuHause> there was no east germany in 1890 :p
11:41:38  <frosch123> anyway, if i had to make the decision, i would favour SZ
11:41:56  <frosch123> it has better semantics
11:42:09  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: seismic activity?
11:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the old germany had more of a north-south-division
11:44:08  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it still has that, we call it the "weißwurstÀquator"
11:44:14  <frosch123> the old old germany had more of a west-middle-east division
11:44:46  <frosch123> i read that karl I is also considered the first french king
11:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the french are kinda in denial of their german heritage
11:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause> which is also why they over-romanticise the gauls
11:47:47  <Eddi|zuHause> gaulls?
11:47:50  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever
11:49:36  <frosch123> i am always amazed by the french-english stuff
11:50:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i always feel i know not enough about that stuff
11:50:02  <frosch123> like england declared "indepenene" from france, and france teams up with scotland
11:50:16  <frosch123> us declared independence from england, france helps them
11:50:31  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i thought you played eu4?
11:50:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:50:51  <frosch123> so you should know about 100-year war
11:50:53  <Eddi|zuHause> but so far i neither played england nor france :p
11:51:19  <argoneus> good morning train friend amigos muchachos
11:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i also knew about the 100 year war before... but only very minimal...
11:51:46  <argoneus> wait wait
11:51:51  <argoneus> do I see eu4 discussion hre
11:51:52  <argoneus> here
11:51:57  <frosch123> yes, because it is europen history without germany being involved :p
11:52:20  <argoneus> 100 year war in eu4 is very historical
11:52:27  <argoneus> when england declares war on you as france
11:52:36  <argoneus> you ally spain, portugal and austria
11:52:38  <argoneus> and call them in
11:52:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i also only know very minor details about the reconquista
11:52:44  <argoneus> and that's how the french won the war
11:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like starting as a superpower like france or ottomans is like cheating
11:55:17  <frosch123> i guess you are not allone on that :)
11:55:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so far i played games as saxony, genoa, japan, iroquios, cherokee and the hansa
11:55:25  <argoneus> yeah
11:55:25  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and nowgorod
11:55:30  <argoneus> playing merchant republics is not cheating
11:55:36  <argoneus> getting 40 ducats a month after 10 years
11:55:44  <argoneus> actually being able to sustain mercenaries
11:55:46  <argoneus> poor hansa
11:55:47  <argoneus> :P
11:56:10  <Eddi|zuHause> well, they now split apart the hansa into individual cities
11:56:18  <argoneus> hm
11:56:22  <argoneus> i haven't played since cossacks
11:56:38  <argoneus> genoa too
11:56:43  <argoneus> genoa is like the easiest country to form italy with
11:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't attempt to form italy as genoa
11:57:00  <argoneus> milan is the second easiest but you have to kill genoa asap
11:57:39  <Eddi|zuHause> as genoa i conquered greece and southern spain, then went colonizing
11:57:40  <argoneus> saxony is fairly hard granted
11:57:51  <argoneus> japan is frustrating and boring
11:58:04  <argoneus> ever since they made diploannexing take 500 years
11:58:13  <argoneus> it's faster to just kill everyone as the shogun
11:58:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i played japan before that...
11:58:38  <argoneus> lucky
11:58:39  <argoneus> I haven't :(
11:58:45  <frosch123> argoneus: i heard kongo is the most fun to play :p
11:59:11  <argoneus> well, "fun"
11:59:20  <argoneus> it's an isolated country that has potential to get westernized very early
11:59:27  <argoneus> and it sits on a trade node iirc
11:59:34  <argoneus> it's an interesting start to say the least
11:59:51  <frosch123> afaik you have to fast-forward 200 years before you can do anything at all
11:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you "sit" on the trade node if you manage to colonize before the europeans
12:00:06  <argoneus> I never played them
12:00:11  <argoneus> but isn't the biggest threat portugal?
12:00:18  <argoneus> or spain or whoever likes that area that game
12:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> biggest threat, or biggest ally?
12:00:49  <argoneus> I don't think colonists liked people of black skin
12:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i found that the AI rather tries to colonize america first
12:01:21  <argoneus> depends
12:01:39  <argoneus> if there's an england player who actively colonizes the carribean (because AI never does that)
12:01:54  <argoneus> then either portugal or spain go to south america instead
12:01:57  <argoneus> and the other guy goes to africa
12:02:00  <argoneus> from my observations at least
12:02:24  <argoneus> I've seen portugal colonize most of african coast
12:02:40  <argoneus> normally they just take ivory coast, south africa and hurray to india
12:02:51  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i only played countries which enter the colonization race rather late, so the caribbean was always already colonized by the time i arrived
12:03:20  <argoneus> I never bothered colonizing when I wasn't early to the race
12:03:27  <argoneus> caribbean is way too overpowered
12:03:29  <argoneus> unless they changed it
12:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause> like as hansa, i barely managed to get havanna, and put a trade center there, because it's fairly crucial in my trade network
12:03:55  <argoneus> basically if you hold the caribbean, then most of north and south american trade goes through there
12:04:01  <argoneus> and then you profit off other's colonies
12:04:03  <argoneus> it's dumb
12:04:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it's rather difficult to get all the world's trade to the north sea
12:04:48  <argoneus> as hansa I just went full battlemerchant on everyone
12:05:09  <argoneus> actually I go full kill-everything as every nation except the colonisators
12:05:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, sort of, but it's easier when you make 300 in trade than 40 :p
12:05:22  <argoneus> well, you see, that's the trick
12:05:28  <argoneus> you kill england and netherlands
12:05:37  <argoneus> meanwhile england colonizes everything
12:05:46  <argoneus> and then you get all that sweet trade in the english channel
12:05:49  <argoneus> without ever having to go to america
12:06:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i took london from england, and vassalized netherlands when they had like 2 provinces, then fed them all others
12:06:26  <Eddi|zuHause> then i never had admin points to get more of england
12:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> nor a diplomat to annex netherlands
12:06:45  <argoneus> I feel like they increase coring and diploannexing costs every patch
12:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause> which really does take 100 years
12:06:54  <argoneus> it's like they want to turn this game into a geopolitical simulator
12:07:01  <argoneus> it used to be a fun map painting simulator :(
12:07:08  <argoneus> might as well play victoria
12:07:22  <argoneus> also aggressive expansion
12:07:26  <argoneus> they keep changing that too
12:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i now can steer trade through 3 routes: {china,india}-samarkand-moscow, indonesia-africa-caribbean-st. lorenz gulf, and persia-aleppo-constantinople-vienna
12:09:13  <argoneus> that's a lot of land
12:09:14  <Eddi|zuHause> all of those with about 70% efficiency
12:09:25  <argoneus> I dunno
12:09:30  <argoneus> I prefer playing countries like brandenburg
12:09:39  <argoneus> at first you pretend that you are just another irrelevant HRE country
12:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> where you form prussia and just clobber everyone?
12:09:47  <argoneus> and then all the morale and discipline ideas kick in
12:09:53  <argoneus> and then you roflstomp stacks twice your size
12:10:02  <argoneus> with 3 star generals
12:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm doing pretty good with hanseatic germany
12:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> hanse has a nice morale boost
12:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and mercenaries
12:11:01  <argoneus> hm
12:11:06  <argoneus> does hansa have a -merc cost idea?
12:11:12  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, no i think the morale boost is from plutocratic
12:12:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played this last week... as i was trying to devise a way to port my hansa game from 1.12 to 1.14, which is non-trivial
12:12:47  <argoneus> I wish I cared that much about my games
12:12:52  <argoneus> I just shrug it off and start a new game
12:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause> because when i just load the game, my trade income drops like 20%, and i'm 100 above my force limit
12:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause> which moves my monthly surplus from +150 to -300
12:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> or so
12:13:49  <argoneus> are you sure it's the save's fault?
12:14:02  <argoneus> I mean
12:14:05  <argoneus> if the game mechanics changed
12:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> also, liberty desire gets bumped up
12:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and it sort of does matter whether it's 45% or 55%
12:14:55  <argoneus> yeah
12:15:09  <argoneus> just make them change religion
12:15:14  <argoneus> that will make them happy :^)
12:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i did that earlier :p
12:15:42  <argoneus> I actually tried an austria game once
12:15:45  <Eddi|zuHause> was exeptionally fun when i "asked" vatican to change religion :p
12:15:50  <argoneus> where I decided to kill the reformation before it spread
12:15:56  <argoneus> that is, forceconvert everything asap
12:16:01  <argoneus> it's impossible ._.
12:16:17  <argoneus> even if you get all the centers, people still keep converting
12:17:06  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i just force-converted everyone to protestantic that was small enough to do so...
12:17:22  <Eddi|zuHause> especially one-province thingies in separate piece
12:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause> peace
12:18:36  <argoneus> yeah, that's what I had to do as austria as well
12:18:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and i started the league war before france could join a side
12:18:49  <argoneus> when the reformation starts, austria isn't xenophobic yet, so you don't get a CB
12:18:52  <argoneus> :(
12:19:10  <argoneus> oh yeah
12:19:20  <argoneus> I was actually wondering why the leagues weren't starting in that game as well
12:19:28  <argoneus> I was like "I guess I beat the protestants so hard there's no leagues"
12:19:37  <argoneus> and then I read on the wiki at least one elector needs to be protestant for it to start
12:20:02  <argoneus> that sucked, because I couldn't enforce religion in the HRE :(
12:20:05  * Wolf01 plays VS2015
12:20:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so stomping is the wrong strategy?
12:20:35  <argoneus> well, if I were to do it again
12:20:46  <argoneus> first you want to make sure everyone in the HRE is relatively small, so you can force convert them
12:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i only played a small test game as austria, to see how the personal union mechanic works
12:21:11  <argoneus> then you pray to God that a center doesn't spawn in denmark or england or such
12:21:23  <argoneus> and once you have all 3 centers in the empire, you curbstomp them asap
12:21:28  <argoneus> and then you good
12:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but to force union on bohemia you must be quick, because they put their own dynasty in later
12:21:43  <argoneus> well, yes and no
12:21:44  <Alberth> /me plays GH reviewing
12:21:50  <argoneus> Alberth: GH?
12:21:58  <argoneus> guitar hero?
12:22:01  <Alberth> github
12:22:01  <argoneus> anyway
12:22:10  <argoneus> all you can do is marry bohemia on game start
12:22:15  <argoneus> and 80% of the time you don't get a PU anyway
12:22:17  <argoneus> but
12:22:33  <argoneus> after the year 1500, if you have more provinces than hungary or bohemia
12:22:39  <argoneus> you get a mission to force them into a PU
12:22:45  <argoneus> individually
12:22:53  <argoneus> no matter who they have on the throne
12:23:00  <argoneus> austria just randomly gets a mission to get them as PU
12:23:30  <argoneus> so in around 1510, if all goes well, you should have half of italy (to prevent shadow empire), and bohemia+hungary under PU
12:23:36  <argoneus> and if you were lucky, then burgundian inheritance as well
12:23:39  <argoneus> now that's a good start :P
12:24:03  <argoneus> and if you are even more proactive
12:24:09  <argoneus> you can exploit the missions and revoke privilegia in around 1490
12:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'll do a real austria game one time
12:24:16  <argoneus> and then you get a vassal swarm too
12:24:23  <argoneus> and you can't really lose a war ever again
12:24:43  <argoneus> and then there's the frustrating things
12:24:47  <argoneus> if your king dies and you get a female heir
12:24:51  <argoneus> you lose the crown
12:25:06  <argoneus> or you have to pass a decision that allows female heirs, but that costs authority
12:25:09  <argoneus> so blah
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12:25:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i think once the reformation kicks in, you're going to have a hard time on authority anyway
12:25:48  <argoneus> yeah
12:25:56  <argoneus> you want to pass like 1-3 decisions when it pops
12:26:02  <argoneus> and then force league war asap
12:26:19  <argoneus> s/when/before/
12:26:25  <Eddi|zuHause> can you even force a league war as emperor?
12:26:40  <argoneus> I don't see why you couldn't
12:26:44  <argoneus> you're the leader of the catholic side
12:26:54  <argoneus> just declare war on someone from the other side
12:27:23  <argoneus> actually wait
12:27:30  <argoneus> it has to be the protestants making the first move
12:27:46  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i misread it, but i think it said the protestant leader must declare war on the emperor with the league war cb
12:27:54  <argoneus> yeah
12:27:56  <argoneus> but iirc
12:28:05  <argoneus> if you declare war on someone in the HRE who is in the emperor's league
12:28:14  <argoneus> then the emperor jumps in and it starts
12:28:45  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i only fought in one league war, and there i was the protestant leader
12:29:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i witnessed a league war in my cherokee game, but you can't take part in that if you're on another continent
12:29:22  <argoneus> haha
12:29:35  <argoneus> natives are hard
12:30:36  <Eddi|zuHause> it was actually pretty fun. don't invest points in tech, invest all in development. and exploit the other tribes to settle for you
12:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause> by the time you westernize, you have the largest development in the world
12:31:15  <Eddi|zuHause> then you need to catch up in tech (i was in that phase when i last played)
12:31:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i vassalized norway, which had lost all of its scandinavian provinces
12:31:58  <argoneus> hm, that sounds like a good idea
12:31:58  <Eddi|zuHause> that hopefully gives me a nice foot in the door for europe
12:32:00  <argoneus> the development thing
12:32:14  <argoneus> can you still make ships?
12:32:23  <argoneus> I only played aztecs once, and it ended up with me spamming heavy ships
12:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> not before westernizing
12:32:26  <argoneus> and killing all the colonists
12:32:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that must have been a long time ago
12:32:49  <argoneus> let me check
12:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause> when i started playing (1.11), ships for natives were already disabled
12:33:12  <argoneus> december 2014
12:33:35  <argoneus>
12:33:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i started later than that
12:34:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried aztec, but it is now really crazy with the religion stuff they added
12:34:23  <argoneus> oh wait
12:34:28  <argoneus> this is the better screenshot
12:34:39  <argoneus>
12:34:40  <argoneus> ahaha
12:34:54  <argoneus> 18 heavy ships in 1522
12:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause> as natives the most scary phase is during westernization. all your old forts will get destroyed, so rebels occupy instantly. and the europeans may want war
12:37:54  <Eddi|zuHause> britain was hostile right away, but i gave them the two provinces they wanted, and turned their religion, then they became friendly
12:38:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and then my chief died and i got a tudor on the throne, not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing :p
12:39:44  <__ln__> 14:36 < Eddi|zuHause> as natives the most scary phase is during westernization. all your old forts will get destroyed, so rebels occupy instantly.   <--- true story from 1990?
12:40:13  <argoneus> lol
12:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> sort of :p
12:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i think the height of that "westernization" was more around 1992-1995, when it became clear that the economy was dropping to 0, before it gets better
12:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause> this process is still not over, btw
12:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but the main problem about native westernization is that you lose all the perks of being a native at the start of it, and only gain the perks of being western at the end of it
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12:51:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and westernization takes really long, because you spent so much on development
12:51:57  <Eddi|zuHause> and expansion
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12:58:37  <drac_boy> hi
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13:04:14  <koesie10> Hi, I'm trying to get OpenTTD (tag 1.5.3) to compile in Visual Studio 2015. However, I get a lot of errors, mostly to do with table/strings.h. I also get an error with strgen, which I assume explains why table/strings.h doesn't exist:
13:05:08  <drac_boy> hmm wish I could maybe help but I don't have windows sorry :->
13:05:29  <frosch123> koesie10: make sure to open the "solution", not the "project"
13:05:57  <frosch123> there are like 4 or so projects within the solution, which are all built when building the solution
13:06:21  <koesie10> frosch123: I've opened openttd_vs100.sln and I use 'Build solution'
13:06:47  <koesie10> And if I hadn't, there wouldn't be any errors for strgen_base.cpp
13:09:58  <frosch123> no idea then, maybe try to compile a nightly instead of 1.5.3. they have a openttd_vs150.sln
13:10:07  <frosch123> maybe that one works better in msvc2015
13:10:37  <koesie10> I can compile trunk with MSVC2015, however I want to modify 1.5.3
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13:12:51  <Wolf01> o/
13:13:46  <andythenorth> so belts?
13:13:55  <andythenorth> radical depature from classic TTD
13:13:59  <andythenorth> -> no vehicles
13:14:08  <drac_boy> hi wolf01? :)
13:15:21  <Wolf01> andy, yesterday evening i was show some photos of the new project of our group leader (lego technic), he is making a huge "something", maybe an excavator, at the moment the base consists of 4 bases of the new blue crane, it can also steer :o
13:15:34  <planetmaker> koesie10, if you want to modify OpenTTD, better get OpenTTD trunk instead of a(ny) release version
13:15:46  <planetmaker> modified versions are not compatible with release versions anyway
13:16:18  <koesie10> planetmaker: How are they not compatible?
13:16:29  <planetmaker> thus you can get the development version with the newest features and bug fixes anyhow
13:16:50  <planetmaker> koesie10, OpenTTD multiplayer only works if all players have the exact same version. A patched version is different, thus incompatible
13:17:15  <andythenorth> Wolf01: is it some big bucket wheel excavator or such?
13:17:31  <koesie10> planetmaker: I have got the version to be the same between 1.5.3 and trunk, but the savegame was not compatible and I think that has to do with the fact that they are not the same versions
13:18:00  <drac_boy> andy...or maybe it has interchangeable tools and hence can be an oversized jackhammer another time? :)
13:18:14  <planetmaker> for instance. But even when they should be savegame compatible, they're not multiplayer compatible if they're different versions
13:18:44  <Wolf01> i think so, but it just may be a single bucket one
13:19:06  <koesie10> planetmaker: But if I for example only modify the layout of the toolbar, they would be compatible if it was based on 1.5.3 right?
13:19:07  <planetmaker> and if you hack them to pretend to be compatible it will often fail regardless as OpenTTD multiplayer only works if all clients do exactly the same so that the game state doesn't evolve differently on different machines
13:19:41  <planetmaker> if it is *only* a GUI change, that often can work - if you know how to bypass version check
13:19:48  <Wolf01> i don't know if it will use gantry cranes or just a mechanical arm
13:20:09  <planetmaker> anyway... cookie baking time :D
13:20:14  <koesie10> planetmaker: I have worked out how to make the versions exactly the same, but only in trunk
13:20:22  * andythenorth lego-ing time
13:20:36  <andythenorth> also a bit of busy bee playing :P
13:20:41  <koesie10> I have now got strgen to compile in 1.5.3 with the following from trunk:
13:24:51  <Alberth> koesie10:   uint means  unsigned int, which is probably bigger than byte
13:25:43  <andythenorth> bloody ship sets
13:25:51  * andythenorth is _still_ disatisfied with Squid
13:25:54  <koesie10> Alberth: this is a clone from trunk, so it is already in the nightlies
13:27:16  <Alberth> hmm, strgen, probably newgrf specs limiting string length then
13:27:31  <drac_boy> Squid?
13:28:01  <Alberth> drac_boy:  it's obligatory here to know all grfs made by andy :)
13:28:30  <drac_boy> andy made more than station platforms and firs? :->
13:28:48  <Alberth> but it's a ship set, squid aka fish2
13:29:04  <andythenorth> HEQS, Squid, FISH, Road Hog, FIRS, CHIPS, Iron Horse, also Termite
13:29:35  <Alberth> really the only newgrfs you'll ever need :)
13:29:41  <andythenorth> AV9
13:29:46  <andythenorth> not mine
13:29:48  <Alberth> hmm, perhaps add nuts too
13:30:22  <drac_boy> I thought fish was danmack?
13:30:51  <Alberth> danmack makes beautiful .png
13:31:02  <Alberth> andy makes beautifil .grf from them
13:32:28  <drac_boy> alberth no I really meant that .. my fish grf only says its danmack .. noone else
13:32:34  <drac_boy> or there must be two different fish grfs
13:34:41  <Alberth>
13:34:43  <drac_boy> at least I think that cargo one from mb was under a different name thankfully .. don't have it anymore tho (and the website isn't there) so can't find what that name was
13:35:07  <Alberth> that's the fish grf I have
13:35:16  <drac_boy> hm I guess theres two then
13:36:11  <Alberth> lots of fishes in the ocean!  :)
13:36:45  <drac_boy> say that reminds me ... I wonder where mb went to
13:37:02  <drac_boy> don't recall (unless I missed some) any posts from him for a while
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13:39:59  <drac_boy> geeze..does anyone remember the actual username for mb? he had all these nice germany-biased grfs he started a very long time ago
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13:43:25  <Eddi|zuHause> who?
13:55:52  <andythenorth> there’s a fishing boat
13:55:59  <andythenorth> from danmack
13:56:05  <andythenorth> that’s not the same as FISH
13:56:50  <andythenorth> mb is Michael Blunck
13:57:27  <drac_boy> ohhhh blunck .. I always had thought it was something else (and wondered why I couldn't find it now)
13:58:06  <drac_boy> hmm october 2014 .. guess he hasn't really posted anymore
13:59:23  <Alberth> he moved to simuscape, afaik
13:59:36  <Alberth> also he was always active at the german forum
14:01:11  <drac_boy> german forum? oh why do I have some vague recall of that ... let me guess tiled green background with darker shade of green for the forum layout itself?
14:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about simuscape, but he posted recently in the german forum, about how things probably speed up again in the winter
14:01:37  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: isn't that every tt-related website ever?
14:01:40  * drac_boy goes to see if I can find it
14:04:05  <drac_boy> heh guess some things don't change and I like that :)
14:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess there's still enough time before the release date of 15-15-15
14:09:57  <drac_boy> umm theres only 12 months or was I not supposed to say that? :)
14:10:43  <andythenorth> I need new parts to make this in lego,.pdf?maxsidesize=406
14:10:49  <andythenorth> the airbags just aren’t feasible
14:11:17  <drac_boy> hmm dbsetxl 0.9 ... nice to see he's still slowly working on that
14:11:47  * drac_boy still has dbset_s and dbsetxl0.8
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14:14:51  <Wolf01> andy, use these:
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14:22:27  <andythenorth> I am :)
14:22:35  * andythenorth waits for flickr upload :P
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14:23:40  <andythenorth> meanwhile, to pass the time
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14:24:00  <Wolf01> ha!
14:24:10  <Wolf01> really nice
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14:24:50  <andythenorth> he has lots of funny automatons on his channel
14:27:30  <Wolf01> i watched the "simple machine series" from him
14:28:23  <andythenorth> Wolf01: and
14:28:27  <andythenorth> there are 3 of those parts
14:29:18  <andythenorth> I really need a 3-stud part that can be anchored at both ends, and will deform 0.5 studs in the middle
14:29:36  <andythenorth> or 3.5, and it compresses to 3 stud under load, and another 0.5 stud under shock-load :P
14:30:02  <Wolf01> chain more of them
14:30:16  <Wolf01> but it might become too big
14:30:19  <andythenorth> it does :)
14:30:40  <andythenorth> I have limited clearance, due to steering + torque rods
14:30:58  * andythenorth tries a different approach
14:31:37  <Wolf01> too bad the lego-me is asleep since about a month, i can't even think about how difficult is upscaling a moc i made :(
14:33:11  <Wolf01> mmh, your problem might be difficult to solve
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14:37:30  <Wolf01> put them horizontally and stretch them instead of compress them, it is not like the real one but it should do its job
14:39:09  <andythenorth> yeah
14:39:13  <andythenorth> got a solution with that
14:39:19  <andythenorth> too big, but eh
14:49:42  * drac_boy still likes one-rail lego trains? :)
14:55:45  <drac_boy> heh
14:58:32  <andythenorth> kind of works
14:58:37  <andythenorth> TMWFTLB though
15:00:08  <Wolf01> you are too demanding, just enjoy you found a solution
15:01:22  <drac_boy> wolf01 is that the same thing we tell miniature rivet counters? :P (after all why should anyone care exactly how many rivets there are on the smokebox door in HO scale?)
15:01:29  <drac_boy> hehe
15:02:34  <Wolf01> yes, it's not a critical failure if it's not perfect
15:03:51  <drac_boy> trying to put four drivers on a steam locomotive and still call it a Mogul would be a certain critical failure tho?
15:03:59  <drac_boy> sorry, maybe we're getting a bit carried away here :->
15:05:40  <Wolf01> even if you put another axle to a steam locomotive i hardly notice, maybe if you forget to change the plate i'll find it
15:06:32  <drac_boy> wolf01 heh well tbh a Mogul is technically basically a 2-6-0 .. if you change any of that its not in that class anymore
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15:07:58  <Wolf01> yes i know, but i don't know the names, i just read them on the documentation
15:08:26  <Wolf01> if the documentation doesn't match with what i'm seeing i'll start to have doubts
15:09:29  <Wolf01> but if you show me a suspension system like andy's one, which works, and i don't know how the real one is, i don't really give a fuck, it works
15:10:29  <andythenorth> I found a more compact solution, just hanging the chassis from the rubber parts
15:10:42  <andythenorth> but it means limited ground clearance...
15:10:45  <Wolf01> i give a fuck about factiorio different length of the rolling stock in vertical and horizontal directions
15:10:49  <Wolf01> *factorio
15:11:08  <andythenorth> so now on bumps, the chassis hits the terrain, so the bounce of the suspension is useless :D
15:11:21  <drac_boy> either way tbh for legos I've never bothered doign anything else than just put the axle right straight through the chassis itself ... after all thats what the instructions for eg 8868 does
15:11:24  <andythenorth> also the axles hit the frame at maximum suspension travel
15:11:29  <andythenorth> so eh
15:11:36  * andythenorth will do without springs
15:13:06  <drac_boy> was not as simple as the box photo showed .. lot of things crammed into small space :->
15:15:05  <Wolf01> wait, what? i can't even think about that thing they did to fit the dishes support perfectly centered
15:15:18  <andythenorth> yeah
15:15:20  <andythenorth> they really did that
15:15:25  <andythenorth> I don’t miss brick-building
15:15:43  <andythenorth> it’s clever, it’s skilled, but it’s border-line hacks
15:19:12  <drac_boy> wolf01 you mean the fluid/air tank? well its at least better than that crappy mold one-piece junk in the later sets tbh
15:19:36  <drac_boy> not to mention you can change the length (which I did)
15:20:50  <drac_boy> hmm yeah to our own I guess but I've always liked the classic build-up pieces instead of these silly mold one-piece stuff in later sets
15:21:11  <Wolf01> i would have used this
15:24:12  <drac_boy> oh and the one other thing is...why the hell are the grey bricks not matching? :->
15:24:32  <Wolf01> you mean the colour?
15:24:50  <drac_boy> yeah
15:25:21  <Wolf01> the old one changed to yellow-ish too easy
15:25:57  <drac_boy> wolf01 well funny mine had been in lot of sun and the only thing changed is that white is a bit dirty
15:26:11  <drac_boy> gray is still the same
15:26:49  <drac_boy> for some reason some of the blue have a bit of funny minor variation under bright light tho
15:28:51  <drac_boy> either way I'll leave you with andy's industrial truck .. have fun :) me need sort some food :-s
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15:33:56  <andythenorth> yeah I hate those one piece parts
15:33:57  <andythenorth> like wheels
15:34:02  <andythenorth> why a wheel part?
15:34:04  <andythenorth> use bricks :P
15:35:13  * andythenorth wonders if tyres would make air bags?
15:35:14  <andythenorth> nvm
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17:54:35  <frosch123> Alberth: any reason to not force "override newer texts" when uploading the base language?
17:56:35  <Alberth> for the base language it should be fine, I think
17:56:51  <Alberth> ie the only way to update the base language is to upload
17:57:14  <Alberth> so you cannot overwrite changes from other sources, such as translators adding new texts
17:58:27  <frosch123> hmm, somehow eints disallows reverting to an older translation
17:58:33  <frosch123> even when using the webinterface
17:58:51  <frosch123> i press "save changes & get next string" and it just ignores it :p
17:59:39  <Alberth> hmm, for a translation, that should not happen
17:59:58  <Alberth> it does look for existing strings, maybe that breaks in some way
18:01:30  <Alberth> the old strings give you history (until they are removed), and I also thought to revert to old translations when the base language reverts
18:01:50  <Alberth> that could be a wrong thought
18:01:58  <V453000> frosch123: I fixed the issue by throwing the graphics to a dustbin and making a better solution :P
18:27:56  <frosch123> Alberth: there seems to be some issue when reverting translations when also the baselanguage reverted
18:28:38  <frosch123> case_chgs = data.get_all_changes(lng.changes.get(sname),, bchg) <- seems to only query the changes for the current base language
18:29:46  <frosch123> if you reenter the latest translation for that base language, the submission is discarded
18:30:06  <frosch123> even if the latest translation is against another base language, and thus differs
18:34:16  <frosch123> Alberth: <- maybe that's a better description
18:42:02  <frosch123> i have no idea why it would only compare it to the translations of the same base
18:42:12  <Alberth> looks like a bug then
18:42:37  <frosch123> line 537 even compares the bases again
18:42:53  <frosch123> so, i would just replace the "bchg" in the get_all_changes with "None"
18:43:21  <Alberth> I have the code not in my head :)
18:43:53  <Alberth> I can have a look in a few days, but feel free to make a fix
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23:54:32  <drac_boy> hi
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23:59:53  <drac_boy> oh and wolf01 took me a while to remember where I saw it but hope you like this? that was one of the few things that initially inspired me .. talk about one-rail trains like I was saying :P

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