Log for #openttd on 29th January 2016:
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01:17:54  <Winter_Fox> Hi o/
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01:54:16  <klote> Hello
01:54:25  <klote> any one here?
01:54:42  <klote> i have a question regarding dedicated server settup
01:54:49  <klote> for openttd
01:55:31  <klote> I got a citybuilder server setup which requiers the client to build a HQ
01:55:49  <klote> they are able to replace the HQ every time
01:55:56  <klote> how do i dissable this?
01:56:06  <klote> i cant find this in the Settings
01:58:49  * Mazur does not know.
02:00:05  <klote> and another question regarding ingamescripts im looking for a Long goal script a simple goal where people need to reach a certain ammount of company value in order to win the game
02:00:58  <klote> If it exists in the list i cant find it or dont know the right name for this script
02:01:08  * Mazur does not know.
02:01:30  <klote> lol k wel u atleast awnsered :P
02:03:44  <Mazur> Unlike the ogthers, I am awake and at my computer.
02:05:55  <klote> they all eu?
02:07:34  <Mazur> Yes, OpenTTD is mostly EU, some Oz, some US.
02:09:54  <klote> whats Oz?
02:12:27  <Mazur> Down under.
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03:56:16  <Supercheese> The land of Slow Internet
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11:40:32  <debdog> do vehicles perform any actions (loadin/unloading) at stations which were added automagicly to the oders (implicit orders)?
11:40:47  <debdog> or do they just drive through?
11:40:53  <debdog>
11:46:23  <peter1138> yes
11:46:51  <debdog> hmm, is there a way to prevent this?
11:47:03  <debdog> wait
11:47:24  <debdog> yes to "pass through" or "yes to "perform action"?
11:47:48  <Pikka> implicit orders aren't real
11:49:14  <debdog> ok, thanksd
11:49:20  <debdog> hehe -d
11:49:31  <debdog> don't need a demon for that (yet) ;)
11:52:03  <peter1138> use "non-stop" orders to stop vehicles from using unscheduled stops
11:52:06  <argoneus> good morning train friends
11:52:10  <Pikka> an implicit order just means that the train stopped at that station last time round, but the station wasn't in its orders. You can avoid their appearance altogether by doing that thing peter said.
11:53:50  <debdog> ok
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12:12:38  <planetmaker> debdog, the 'implicit orders' tell you what the vehicle actually does, thus where it stops. You can change that by using non-stop goto orders (or not using the non-stop option)
12:12:46  <planetmaker> for the real orders in the list
12:13:29  <planetmaker> thus the purpose of the implicit orders is not so much that they are orders, but rather information for you to tell you what your orders (also) imply additional to what you explicitly ordered the vehicles to do
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12:23:50  <Wolf01> o/
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13:20:41  <debdog> all right, thanks for all the explanations, I think I've got it now!
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14:09:32  <openbu> I'm studying NML 0.4.4
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16:39:10  <Wolf01> This site requires Sun Java (32-bit) or higher. You have Macromedia JavaŸ (48-bit). Click here [link to main page] to download an installer which will run fine but not really change anything.
16:39:11  <Wolf01> lol
16:40:29  <Alberth> MacroMedia Java???
16:40:59  <Wolf01> and 48-bit
16:41:28  <Wolf01> (it's XKCD)
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17:56:05  <andythenorth> o/
17:58:36  <andythenorth> someone is wrong on the internet
17:58:48  <Wolf01> nah
17:58:54  <andythenorth> Wolf01: so how much do you think Volvo license adds to price of 42030? :P
17:58:59  <andythenorth> in €0.00 ?
17:59:00  <Wolf01> the entire internet is wrong
17:59:43  <Wolf01> like 20€
18:00:00  <andythenorth> nah
18:00:09  <andythenorth> probably it actually reduces the cost per set
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18:00:35  <andythenorth> Lego will have had extensive access to Volvo equipment and brand assets
18:00:44  <andythenorth> Volvo get publicity they couldn’t otherwise buy
18:00:47  <Wolf01> oh, right, Volvo != Disney
18:02:28  <Alberth> nice supply yard, andy, hadn't see that one yet
18:14:25  <Wolf01> :D
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18:20:57  <andythenorth> is that HEQS?
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18:28:07  <Alberth> :D
18:37:26  <andythenorth> so anyone else got pypy?
18:37:27  <andythenorth> :P
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18:40:50  <roidal_> pypy?
18:41:08  <andythenorth> pypy3 to be precise
18:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> what for?
18:42:12  <roidal_> that triggered a hilight on my client
18:42:16  <roidal_> pypy is one of my nicks :P
18:42:31  <roidal_> and no, iam using the standard CPython interpreter
18:42:33  <roidal_> :P
18:43:06  <andythenorth> for seeing how nmlc performs with different pythons
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18:43:35  <roidal_> nmlc?
18:43:48  <andythenorth> nml compiler
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18:46:15  <roidal_> A compiler from NML code to NFO and/or GRF files. – GRF is the file-format for TTD content?
18:46:28  <andythenorth> yes
18:46:44  <roidal_> to be honest i never digged into the technical details about it
18:46:53  <roidal_> does it contaim some sort of program-code?
18:47:07  <roidal_> (bytecode?)
18:47:16  <Eddi|zuHause> sort of
18:47:24  <andythenorth> it contains a higher level language, borderline pseudo code
18:47:42  <roidal_> interesting
18:47:49  <andythenorth> I don’t know the exact term, it’s somewhere between markup and a language
18:48:00  <Eddi|zuHause> GRF is the bytecode, NFO is the assembler code and NML is the high level language
18:48:24  <roidal_> nice
18:48:33  <roidal_> and what exactly is handled by that bytecode?
18:48:55  <roidal_> and does the grf-files contain content (graphics, ...) too?
18:49:13  <andythenorth> yes
18:49:32  <andythenorth> there’s branching logic, and graphics
18:50:47  <Eddi|zuHause> roidal_: the bytecode is a not-turing-complete language that basically can read a variable and then branch off into different cases. this can handle simple things like deciding which graphics to display for a vehicle, or more complex things like storing cargo and producing at different speeds and ratios for industries
18:51:00  <andythenorth> what Eddi|zuHause said
18:51:03  <frosch123> roidal_: grf contain decision trees to pick graphics and properties of stuff depending other stuff
18:53:23  <roidal_> ah
18:53:35  <roidal_> frosch123: and where are this graphics stored?
18:53:50  <roidal_> and the NML-compiler is written in python?
18:53:55  <roidal_> (python 3)
18:54:05  <frosch123> grf is just a single file
18:54:30  <frosch123> it contains everything
18:55:19  <roidal_> ok
18:56:32  <Mazur> Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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19:01:30  <Milek7> frosch123:
19:01:34  <Milek7> can you reply to my last comment?
19:03:11  <frosch123> what should i reply?
19:04:13  <frosch123> settings should be consistent and not conflict or contradict each other
19:04:44  <frosch123> i do not know any details about changes to the rating either
19:06:39  <roidal_> hm, was GRF, NFO and NML developed by the openttd team, or undertaken from TTD?
19:06:59  <frosch123> roidal_: i see at least 4 parties involved
19:07:20  <frosch123> which overlap in various parts
19:07:37  <frosch123> ttd has grf version 1, which only has graphics
19:07:43  <Milek7> enabling new option only ignores rating when building
19:07:47  <frosch123> ttdp extended it to contain decision trees
19:08:02  <Milek7> and calculating still works, so this setting not contradict council attitude
19:08:04  <frosch123> ottd extended it to version 2 containing 32bpp graphics and zoom levels
19:08:22  <frosch123> nml was developed independently
19:08:34  <frosch123> today everything that still exists is maintained by ottd devs
19:08:52  <Milek7> but, if it is required i can add new option to council attitude
19:09:00  <Milek7> which completly disables calculation
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19:11:01  <roidal_> ah, i see
19:11:39  <Eddi|zuHause> TTDPatch also invented the NFO language
19:12:07  <roidal_> may i ask if there is some high-dpi mode planed? not only for the menus but for the whole game?
19:12:21  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas the NML inventors came from the OpenTTD community
19:12:43  <frosch123> roidal_: isn't 4x zoom quite high-dpi?
19:12:56  <Eddi|zuHause> also, NFO and GRF existed before the OpenTTD project was even started
19:13:08  <frosch123> it's too big on a fhd screen, so it should be fine on a qhd one
19:14:06  <roidal_> maybe i should be more specific, i meant graphics with higher resolution (not color but pixels)?
19:14:15  <roidal_> because on 4x zoom its know :D
19:14:34  <Eddi|zuHause> 4x zoom is pixels, has nothing to do with colours...
19:14:37  <frosch123> roidal_: either you missed something since 2012, or i do not understand you
19:14:41  <roidal_> Eddi|zuHause: the developement-history seems much more complicated as it looks from the first view
19:15:30  <frosch123> roidal_: <- isn't that quite high dpi?
19:15:41  <frosch123> for the most part of it
19:16:14  <roidal_> frosch123: which graphic-files are used for that?
19:16:32  <frosch123> that is from the unfinished/unreleased brix
19:16:40  <roidal_> ah, nice
19:17:16  <frosch123> there is also zbase (controversial), rawr, and some none-landscape things
19:21:16  <Milek7> frosch123: what do you think about adding setting controlling bribe detect propability?
19:22:24  <frosch123> it sounds like something 1 in 100000 users would care about
19:23:21  <Alberth> nah, much higher, it's a way around the town authorities :p
19:23:57  <Alberth> unless you only want to increase the probability, Milek7 :)
19:23:59  <frosch123> Alberth: smatz had the idea to make the scenario editor work in multiplayer
19:24:02  <frosch123> it would solve many issues
19:24:27  <Alberth> oh?
19:24:42  <Alberth> like what?
19:24:56  <Alberth> or is there a big need for MP scenario editing?
19:24:56  <frosch123> no authority, rivers, town growth
19:25:05  <frosch123> no industry closing
19:25:12  <Alberth> no companies
19:25:24  <Milek7> that would be rather popular feature, as many people hate local authorities ;)
19:25:39  <frosch123> so many cheaters?
19:26:17  <andythenorth> unrestricted sandbox?
19:26:33  <Milek7> currently there are many setting that can be considiered as cheating
19:27:06  <Milek7> and nobody see problem in it
19:27:15  <Alberth> we do
19:27:35  <Alberth> we'd like to remove them, but users think they are required
19:27:48  <Milek7> like disabling breakdowns
19:27:53  <Milek7> and building on pause
19:28:08  <Alberth> disabling breakdown was in the original
19:28:50  <Milek7> original developers were permitted to add cheats to settings, but openttd no?
19:29:33  <roidal_> Alberth: on which settings are you thinking?
19:30:38  <Alberth> none in particular, or rather all
19:30:56  <Alberth> for every setting, there is a group of users that thinks it's essential :)
19:31:27  <frosch123> roidal_: almost every release moves some settings to a more hidden place
19:31:35  <roidal_> no, i mean, which settings you would like to remove?
19:32:22  <roidal_> frosch123: whats the motivation behind that
19:32:39  <frosch123> because noone, who knows what they do, switches them
19:33:04  <frosch123> only clueless people try them, and then complain about some(the intentional) effect caused by it
19:33:28  <frosch123> who would disable freeform edges?
19:33:42  <roidal_> hm
19:33:45  <frosch123> all that the setting causes is people complaining that they cannot set the map borders
19:33:59  <frosch123> who would set max map height to 255?
19:34:04  <Milek7> me :>
19:34:13  <frosch123> the mapgen only generated to a certain size for a certani mapsizte anyway
19:34:25  <frosch123> and setting the max height higher breaks arctic and tropic climate
19:34:31  <frosch123> because snow and climate fail
19:34:40  <Milek7> assuming that user is stupid is bad idea
19:34:43  <roidal_> especially the map height got raised only some time ago?
19:34:51  <Milek7> especially in open source project
19:35:25  <frosch123> why? it is "open source", not "open user"
19:35:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: the idea is to reduce the amount of support needed, which fills the forums with useless threads and binds community time
19:35:39  <frosch123> Milek7: anyway, good luck running the support hotline
19:36:00  <frosch123> Milek7: in a company you hire a 1st level support
19:36:10  <frosch123> Milek7: in open source the developers jump out of the window
19:36:21  <roidal_> lol
19:36:50  <frosch123> Milek7: if you have noticed, there are constantly news about the "bad attitude"/ranting in open source
19:37:12  <frosch123> Milek7: that's because developers are directly confronted by users, and have no 1st level support protecting them
19:37:58  <roidal_> on the other hand sometimes this produces much better results than with L1 support
19:38:46  <roidal_> many times the give you answeres that you know that the L1 support have no real idea of the technical problem
19:39:15  <frosch123> roidal_: the best thing was when we removed to option to change grfs in game :) it transformed "dozen of bug reports" to "dozen of complains on the forums". which was a huge improvement, since the "community" could answer them :p
19:40:26  <roidal_> i see
19:41:14  <V453000> sdf
19:41:16  <frosch123> [20:38] <roidal_> many times the give you answeres that you know that the L1 support have no real idea of the technical problem <- you get good answers to unique questions. you get rants for common questions :)
19:41:24  <Alberth> hi hi V
19:41:26  <V453000> hi
19:41:41  <Alberth> 10 days away, and the project is dead :p
19:41:52  <V453000> I actually did stop lately
19:41:55  <V453000> but yeah :D
19:42:06  <frosch123> yup, was a great post :)
19:43:00  <argoneus> tbh the map height should be 512
19:43:21  <frosch123> yeah, that would add a completely new interpretation to map rotation
19:43:43  <V453000> I think that as long as we have original acceleration and 2way PBS as defaults, any discussion about settings is pointless
19:44:19  <frosch123> ah, true, i forgot about those
19:48:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure acceleration was already in my settings review oh so many years ago, and it wasn't accepted for some reason
19:48:50  <andythenorth> ugh 1st level support
19:48:53  <andythenorth> that’s a horrible idea :)
19:49:01  <andythenorth> developers do support, bugs get fixed
19:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the whole point of 1st level support is to fetch out the cases that are not bugs at all.
19:55:38  <andythenorth> what about the ones where it’s not a bug, but failure demand?
19:56:08  <glx> there are procedures to follow to detect a real problem :)
19:57:05  <andythenorth> failure demand goes away faster if developers see it
19:57:09  <frosch123> Milek7: roidal_: btw. it's not only on open source. the youtuber totalbiscuit quit community interaction this week for like the third time. everytime it's like him almost jumping out of a window
19:57:18  <andythenorth> why spend money on support monkeys who can’t actually solve any problems
19:57:26  <andythenorth> just to make the customer’s problem get resolved more slowly
19:57:58  <frosch123> it applies to everything where someone is personally invested, and then gets confronted by a crowd with other opinions
19:58:58  <frosch123> [20:57] <andythenorth> why spend money on support monkeys who can’t actually solve any problems <- it's for the cases where the developers cannot solve the problem either
19:59:25  <andythenorth> seems like double handling
19:59:32  <andythenorth> dunno
20:00:30  <andythenorth> one case has a revenue cost paying non-value adding stuff perpetually to not actually solve problems
20:00:51  <andythenorth> the other case accepts a lot of waste for some high-value developers, but pays off problems, reducing the total cost of them over time
20:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there is a reason why "have you tried turning it off and on again?" is a running gag
20:01:54  <andythenorth> dunno
20:02:15  <andythenorth> I don’t do the support
20:02:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, not every injury needs a specialist doctor
20:02:27  <andythenorth> but I’m not exactly armchair theorising either
20:02:58  <andythenorth> back to pypy3
20:03:07  <glx> and a many customers call the support for something totally unrelated
20:03:13  <andythenorth> FIRS compiles faster, but Iron Horse compiles much slower
20:03:18  <andythenorth> and Road Hog won’t compile at all
20:03:24  <Alberth> :O
20:03:31  <andythenorth> Alberth: try it :)
20:03:44  <roidal_> FIRS, Iron Horse and Road Hog = ?
20:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, like the guy a few days ago here, who asked about a coop server
20:03:49  <andythenorth> python 3.2, 3.4 and 3.5 are all much of a much
20:04:00  <andythenorth> but pypy3 is highly variable compared to 3.x
20:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and it took quite a while to figure out that he's talking about some completely unrelated game
20:04:49  <andythenorth> I think chameleon is substantially slower in pypy3
20:04:50  <Alberth> firs, iron horse, and road hog are regularly discussed here :)
20:05:01  <andythenorth> but nmlc I *think* is much faster, at least for some cases
20:05:16  <andythenorth> hard to profile, a lot goes on in the compile
20:05:24  <Alberth> now the challenge to stay in those cases :p
20:05:43  <andythenorth> with primed cache, FIRS compiles in about 28s with pypy3
20:05:49  <andythenorth> compared to 50s with py3.x
20:06:00  <roidal_> Alberth: now we know that i don't read regularly here :P
20:06:12  <andythenorth> if I change code, the primed cache times stay around 30s
20:06:13  <frosch123> roidal_: <- try that "dictionary"
20:06:19  <roidal_> ty
20:06:28  <andythenorth> if I change a png, it’s equivalent to destroying the cache
20:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you haven't got your dependencies right then
20:06:59  <roidal_> andythenorth: the nmlc is written in python3?
20:07:16  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I don’t feed anything to the nmlc cache, it’s automatic
20:07:20  <Alberth> roidal_: well, it was python2, and converted to python3
20:07:38  <roidal_> ah, ty again :D
20:08:16  <roidal_> yes, most python-programms running more than a few seconds should benefit from the jit included in pypy
20:11:39  <roidal_> and
20:11:42  <roidal_> most important
20:11:51  <roidal_> python > perl!!! (flamewar start :D)
20:12:05  <frosch123> not in this channel :p
20:12:10  <frosch123> this is solid python ground
20:12:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that flamewar is not going to find fruitful ground in here :p
20:12:22  <Alberth> :)
20:12:24  <frosch123> you only have chances for git vs hg
20:12:29  <andythenorth>
20:13:00  <roidal_> frosch123 | this is solid python ground <- like that
20:13:02  <roidal_> :D
20:14:06  <frosch123> ocassionaly you can find a ruby guy
20:14:29  <roidal_> ok, then
20:14:35  <roidal_> to get a success
20:14:38  <roidal_> git > hg
20:14:42  <roidal_> *start to run*
20:14:58  <frosch123> you better do :p
20:15:02  <roidal_> xD
20:15:41  <andythenorth> git won
20:15:41  <Eddi|zuHause> git is terrible for people who don't already know git
20:15:41  <Milek7> git! :D
20:15:55  <andythenorth>
20:15:58  <andythenorth> game over
20:16:08  <andythenorth> so how have I broken road hog / nmlc?
20:16:10  <frosch123>
20:16:12  <frosch123> gmae over
20:16:20  <andythenorth> play again? Y | N
20:16:26  <andythenorth> insert more coins
20:16:56  *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@] has joined #openttd
20:17:21  <andythenorth> this food processor accepts fruit and nuts
20:17:28  <andythenorth> I should add cocoa beans
20:17:32  <andythenorth> and produce chocolate
20:17:38  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
20:17:39  * andythenorth don’t even like fruit + nut
20:17:39  <andythenorth> :P
20:17:55  <Eddi|zuHause> "student food"
20:18:34  <frosch123> roidal_: sed > vim
20:18:58  <Milek7> so no chances for bribe proability option?
20:19:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i watched a contest once: "which is better? vim or emacs?"... and *SPOILER* sed won
20:19:22  <roidal_> frosch123: did you mean emacs > vim?
20:19:54  <roidal_> oh
20:19:57  <roidal_> i got it...
20:19:59  <roidal_> ;)
20:20:42  <roidal_> how was that?
20:20:42  <frosch123> roidal_: emacs and perl are weird. i never meet people who use either of them
20:20:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: the general consensus is that there are way too many options...
20:20:48  <roidal_> church of emacs
20:20:51  <roidal_> and cult of vi?
20:21:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the knights who use vi?
20:21:51  <roidal_> Eddi|zuHause: from germany?
20:21:57  <frosch123> roidal_: <- that's about my only contact with perl
20:22:08  <Eddi|zuHause> roidal_: why?
20:22:10  <frosch123> roidal_: eddi is from home
20:22:50  <roidal_> 'zuHause' -> german :>
20:22:58  <roidal_> frosch123: thats nice! :D
20:23:24  *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:23:52  <Alberth> could start using  $ in Java identifiers :p
20:23:53  <Eddi|zuHause> roidal_: if you pick a random person from the nick list, you have about 1/3 chance he's german...
20:24:10  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe 1/4
20:24:58  <roidal_> the chance on your nick seems to be greater
20:25:24  <roidal_> :P
20:28:55  <roidal_> don't wanted to interupt the tries to start a flamewar ;)
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20:31:36  <Milek7> Eddi|zuHause: many options is good
20:32:05  <Milek7> anyone can set to that setting which he likes
20:32:55  <Wolf01> uhm, V453000, I just found your spring bridge... in an anime
20:35:02  <argoneus> Wolf01 what anime
20:35:19  <Wolf01> owarimonogatari, ep9
20:35:24  <argoneus> ew, gatari
20:44:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: settings generally divide the population in 3 parts: 1) people who want to enable the setting, 2) people who want to disable the setting, and 3) people who get confused about the overwhelming number of settings they don't understand
20:45:21  <Milek7> bribing detection propability is not any confusing setting
20:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: and as the size of #1/#3 or #2/#3 approaches zero, the setting becomes useless
20:45:54  <Milek7> more confusing is for example acceleration model
20:46:02  <Milek7> and "original" model is complete nonsense
20:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
20:46:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is not an argument FOR your setting
20:47:43  <Milek7> if you don't want new simple setting, why for example you not remove all settings, because they are only confusing new pepole?
20:49:20  <andythenorth> what new setting is wanted?
20:49:48  <Milek7> bribe detection propability
20:50:33  <andythenorth> just patch it to what you want and recompile
20:50:36  <andythenorth> no setting needed
20:50:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: because some settings actually do divide the community fairly evenly into #1 and #2 categories
20:51:27  <Milek7> but i want to use it on multiplayer
20:51:42  <Milek7> and desyncing when bribe is detected on client is not good idea :D
20:52:00  <Milek7> it can be only in configuration file
20:52:11  <Milek7> it dosen't must be in gui
20:52:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: you're still not having a very strong argument, against a development community that gets increasingly conservative
20:53:52  <Milek7> but. it. is. one. small. setting.
20:54:06  <Milek7> there is a much more completly useless settings
20:54:15  <andythenorth> Milek7: you just need someone with commit rights to sponsor it for you :)
20:54:39  <andythenorth> these things never happen by convincing someone who is opposed via argument
20:54:40  <roidal_> maybe offering a donation for that setting? :D
20:54:58  <Milek7> bribe? :>
20:55:12  <andythenorth> roll a dice :P
20:55:15  <roidal_> however you want to call it
20:55:17  <roidal_> :D
20:55:26  <andythenorth> if you get a 6, your setting is allowed
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21:00:56  <Rubidium> just put it differently, which constants in OpenTTD's code should not be a setting?
21:02:20  <frosch123> you can increase the chance by lining out a convincing concept, which is not just "this setting disabled something which i don't like, and i don't care what happens with other stuff related to that"
21:03:10  <Milek7> what do you mean by " i don't care what happens with other stuff related to that"?
21:04:43  *** frosch [] has joined #openttd
21:05:21  <Wolf01> V453000, argoneus, found it:
21:06:06  <Alberth> ha, great find :)
21:07:22  <roidal_> maybe such settings should be changeable via the console?
21:08:05  <roidal_> so there is no visible option for inexperienced players
21:08:43  <roidal_> but its changeable for those who know what they do?
21:09:05  <roidal_> or maybe a hidden menu like the cheats-menu?
21:09:22  <frosch> roidal_: there exists already a cheat which does essentially the same
21:09:29  <frosch> just that cheats are not allowed in mulitplayer
21:09:36  <roidal_> ah
21:09:51  <Milek7> cheat changing bribe detect propability?
21:10:22  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:10:25  *** [Franklin] [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
21:10:40  <Milek7> there is magic bulldozer, but is does many other things than destroying city buildings
21:10:46  <Milek7> and bribing requires cash
21:11:12  <frosch> just plant trees then
21:11:17  <Milek7> and cannot be used to raise rating above excellent
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21:12:38  <Milek7> there is sometimes no free space for trees
21:12:49  <frosch> then remove the trees first
21:13:09  <Milek7> ..
21:13:43  <frosch> he, you wanted a cheat :p
21:14:02  <andythenorth> bah
21:14:03  <frosch> ok, it's no cheat, just an exploit
21:14:08  <andythenorth> town won’t let me build my station
21:14:24  <andythenorth> I have annoyed them :(
21:14:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted that exploit fixed like 10 years ago...
21:14:50  <frosch> andythenorth: show them their mistake, and grow another town
21:15:03  <andythenorth> I am planting trees
21:15:19  <Milek7> but, in another town there is the same thinking local authority ;)
21:15:23  <andythenorth> first time it’s happened in this game
21:15:32  <andythenorth> usually I just have high ratings
21:15:43  <andythenorth> low ratings are mostly only a problem if you’ve screwed up
21:20:25  <andythenorth> I guess I screwed up :(
21:20:47  <frosch> fund some trees, until it i s enough to build two drive-through road stops
21:20:51  <frosch> then run a bus service
21:21:02  <frosch> done
21:22:16  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:22:32  <andythenorth> silly old andythenorth
21:22:39  <andythenorth> I didn’t do that
21:22:46  <andythenorth> instead I bulldozed lots of land around the town
21:22:48  <andythenorth> for routes
21:22:51  <andythenorth> but didn’t serve the town
21:22:58  * andythenorth is such a noob
21:25:16  <frosch> oh my, it's even easier than i remembered
21:25:28  <frosch> just build 20 road stops in a row, and send two buses in a circle
21:25:49  <frosch> you should get to outstanding in less than a year
21:26:27  <andythenorth> ha ha
21:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i generally build a bus or tram network in a town before doing anything else
21:27:00  <andythenorth> after a while
21:27:08  <andythenorth> Busy Bee should prospect some industries
21:27:10  <andythenorth> Alberth: ^
21:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause> and that's why my suggestion to fix the tree explioit is simply: forbid destroying trees if the rating is <fairly high>
21:27:43  <andythenorth> eh?
21:27:50  <andythenorth> how would I build routes :o
21:27:54  *** liq3 [] has joined #openttd
21:27:55  <Eddi|zuHause> then you can still get out of the situation by placing bus stops
21:28:14  <Eddi|zuHause> like, find an empty tile or just build on the roads
21:28:33  <andythenorth> can’t build train lines?
21:28:40  <andythenorth> I’d definitely want a setting for that :P
21:29:05  <Alberth> simpler solution would be to reduce impact of adding trees
21:29:08  <frosch> you just need many stations
21:29:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it would allow for a new balancing pass where the impact of destroying trees could be lowered
21:29:18  <frosch> you can also build 1x1 train stations :p
21:29:23  <frosch> just the roads get into the way
21:29:37  <frosch> so, yeah, drive-through roadstops are definitely a cheat
21:29:45  <frosch> only added to easily increase town rating
21:29:46  <Alberth> andythenorth: would it still be busy bee?
21:29:51  <andythenorth> Alberth: dunno :)
21:29:55  <andythenorth> builder bee
21:30:04  <andythenorth> it wouldn’t be very often
21:30:25  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i would add a town rating effect to raising/lowering terrain
21:30:30  <andythenorth> I’m 30 years in, and increasingly the goals are harder to meet
21:30:30  <Alberth> why would it do that?
21:30:52  <andythenorth> I’ve already used a lot of the primaries
21:30:54  <andythenorth> hmm
21:30:59  <andythenorth> I could re-route :)
21:31:05  <andythenorth> that seems weird though
21:31:16  <Alberth> you could build your own new industries :p
21:31:19  <andythenorth> I just did
21:31:25  <andythenorth> ‘problem’ solved
21:31:32  <andythenorth> most ideas die young :P
21:32:15  <Alberth> script building industries could be fun, but it needs a bigger twist then, imho
21:32:23  <andythenorth> ‘invalid’ is my favourite kind of development
21:32:31  <andythenorth> ‘no’ is the best feature :P
21:32:48  <Alberth> tell that to your customers :p
21:35:18  <Alberth> I wonder if you could steer BB more towards a less random map
21:35:48  <Alberth> now it just spreads evenly everywhere
21:36:04  <andythenorth> I think that would be ‘Expand the Frontier Bee’ or something
21:36:10  <andythenorth> “North to South Bee”
21:36:34  <andythenorth> I am almost entirely only building routes to goals
21:36:35  <Alberth> a bit like your farm clusters, but at a bigger scale
21:36:38  <andythenorth> except for a few supplies
21:36:53  <andythenorth> and eventually
.the network starts to look connected
21:36:59  <Alberth> eg coal in the north, steel in the center
21:37:10  <andythenorth> yeah, I would like that as an alternative
21:37:13  <andythenorth> ‘Region Bee'
21:37:17  <andythenorth> ‘Scenario Bee’ :P
21:37:31  <andythenorth> Railroad Tycoon had seed points in the map
21:37:36  <andythenorth> so it was random, but highly weighted
21:37:51  <andythenorth> could be done in newgrf, but that’s too prescriptive
21:38:34  <Alberth> maybe get everything routed to one destination :p
21:39:27  <andythenorth> SV
21:39:47  <Alberth> didn't play that for a long time, should try it again
21:41:05  <andythenorth> it’s good
21:41:10  <andythenorth> needs multiple Valleys
21:41:10  <andythenorth> :P
21:43:24  <andythenorth> PIPE:
21:44:43  <andythenorth> SV probably awesome with FIRS Arctic Basic, if the cargo is Vehicle Parts
21:45:00  <andythenorth>
21:45:27  <frosch> assuming all cargo labels use 4 uppercase letters (plus _), we could add four settings to sv to force a cargo :p
21:45:51  <_dp_> I would definitely disable authority in claimed town in cb
21:45:59  <frosch> but well, may become boring if it is not random
21:46:00  <andythenorth> frosch: that would be
21:46:09  <_dp_> because it confuses new players and annoys old ones)
21:46:10  <andythenorth> dunno, I usually start a game knowing what I want
21:46:23  <frosch> _dp_: what's the point? it f'ing easy to increase the rating. you could as well disable money
21:47:08  <_dp_> frosch, many players don't know how to do it, they think they screwed up and leave game
21:47:21  <_dp_> and for pros time is very valuable
21:47:29  <frosch> "pros"
21:47:36  * andythenorth is noob
21:47:37  <_dp_> spending it to fight stupid authority is not fun
21:47:44  <_dp_> money is also
21:47:46  <andythenorth> been playing since 2008, and TTD when a kid
21:47:49  <andythenorth> still noob
21:48:10  <andythenorth> grrr, Squid Ate FISH is bloody awful
21:48:12  <frosch> a "pro" knows the game deals with the rules
21:48:43  <andythenorth> ships need work
21:48:55  * andythenorth thinks
21:49:03  <_dp_> yeah, but that's not fun
21:49:06  <frosch> well, back to 1st level support
21:49:18  <andythenorth> eh
21:49:22  <_dp_> cb has fine mechanics on its own and doesn't need that authority
21:49:23  <frosch> can we hire them from blizzard?
21:49:33  <andythenorth> you know how [some] newgrf authors obsess about train loading time?
21:49:37  <andythenorth> and make it realistic
21:49:37  <frosch> reaper openings are so boring and annoying to deal with
21:49:37  <Alberth> gn
21:49:43  <frosch> i would rather spend the time on building drones
21:49:43  <andythenorth> bye Alberth
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21:50:15  <andythenorth> loading times might actually matter for ships
21:50:29  <frosch> andythenorth: the reverse?
21:50:42  <andythenorth> or that too
21:50:44  <andythenorth> dunno
21:50:47  <frosch> infinite many ships can load in parallel, so loading time does not matter at all?
21:50:52  <andythenorth> well yes
21:50:57  <andythenorth> ship model progression is hard
21:51:03  <andythenorth> speed is ok
21:51:06  <andythenorth> I’ve tried size, it’s crap
21:51:13  <andythenorth> so only speed
21:51:19  <andythenorth> no HP, no TE, running cost is blah
21:51:23  <andythenorth> and loading speed isn’t shown
21:51:30  <andythenorth> likelihood of sinking
21:51:31  <andythenorth> ?
21:51:32  <frosch> size is for visuals, so you do not have to use multipel ships over each other :p
21:51:49  <andythenorth> size / capacity /s :P
21:52:09  <frosch> capacity and speed is kind of the same
21:52:22  <frosch> but yes, ships are pretty one-dimensional
21:52:31  <frosch> there is only cargo per time
21:52:41  <frosch> because ships move independent from each other
21:53:09  <andythenorth> so speed is the only useful dimension?
21:53:23  <andythenorth> and, in a realistic-ish set, steam vs. non-steam
21:53:23  <frosch> assuming you do not care about payment for delivery speed (which is bad for ships anyway),  it's just about amount per time
21:53:37  <frosch> which you can get by increasing capacity, speed, or number of ships
21:53:37  <andythenorth> I just want ships matched to train sizes :P
21:53:46  <frosch> "number of ships" is ugly, if they stack
21:53:58  <frosch> capacity and speed does not seem to make a difference, does it?
21:54:08  <andythenorth> no and yes
21:54:22  <andythenorth> depends how frequently you want to produce at a secondary industry
21:54:40  <andythenorth> and how much it annoys you to have n of the smallest ship, where n is increasingly a large number
21:54:48  <andythenorth> logically, all ships should be 8t and go 30mph
21:54:57  <andythenorth> that is the most logical choice
21:55:13  <frosch> yes, that means your goal is to run 5 (?) ships on every route
21:55:14  <andythenorth> and you build 100 instead of one 800t ship
21:55:33  <frosch> you can achieve that by picking the ship model with matching amount/time
21:55:34  <andythenorth> hmm you have called it close :P
21:55:39  <andythenorth> I usually run 3-4 ships on a route
21:55:54  <andythenorth> 1 loading, 1 travelling to destination, 1 unloading, 1 returning
21:56:30  <frosch> 500 tons/month production, pick a ship that has 100 tons/month transport on the required distance
21:56:59  <frosch> it can be a slow ship with high capacity, or a fast ship with lower capacity. no difference between them
21:57:17  <andythenorth> depends if you’re doing transfers
21:57:19  <frosch> if you want to go "realistic" you pick a rather fixed speed for all ships, and only vary capacity
21:57:39  <frosch> so, i see nothign wrong with your iniital strategy
21:57:41  <andythenorth> if your incoming train fills 75% of a ship vs 100%, you double the route time for the cargo
21:57:49  <frosch> capacity is the only property for ships
21:58:15  <_dp_> btw, what makes authority really annoying in cb is that it kinda snowballs... you need to build trees to get it up but then you need to build roads over those trees making it even worse
21:58:25  <frosch> andythenorth: double? if you have 5 ships you can at most increase it by 20%
21:58:27  <andythenorth> frosch: conclusion seems right, but boring :)
21:58:29  <frosch> or you have a ship too much
21:58:42  <andythenorth> I want to keep capacity same for each model at a given size
21:58:46  <andythenorth> so what to progress?
21:58:49  <_dp_> so once you rating drops below building threshold it's really hard to get it back
21:58:53  <frosch> _dp_: so just build busstops inbetween
21:59:14  <frosch> as said, outstanding in less than a year, with a few busstops and busses
21:59:32  <andythenorth> Road Hog offers minimal capacity increase, or none, some speed increase, and substantial HP increase
21:59:52  <_dp_> there is certain layout for bus stops, if you make more it screws up everything
22:00:02  <_dp_> also rvs are limited
22:00:09  <frosch> andythenorth: with one property there is no progress
22:00:34  <frosch> andythenorth: you pick the ship to match the amount/time requirement for the route. once you got that, there is no progress
22:01:09  <frosch> andythenorth: the only thing you could do is to restrict large/fast ships to later years, so in early years you can only serve short distances or you have to build a lot of ships
22:02:15  <_dp_> and few months is a lot of time, sometimes it's not even worth continuing game if deliveries were missed for few months
22:02:16  <andythenorth> I somewhat did that
22:02:21  <andythenorth> it’s ok, ish
22:03:00  <andythenorth> I am minded to just accept that ships are boring
22:03:17  <andythenorth> but maybe set loading speed faster on modern ships
22:03:19  <andythenorth> total realisms :P
22:03:21  <frosch> that is likely a valid conclusion :p
22:03:29  <andythenorth> players won’t know about loading speed, but eh
22:03:44  <andythenorth> they don’t know about payment bonus on refrigerated ship either :P
22:03:49  <frosch> something with only "one property" is likely boring, you cannot weight different aspects
22:04:08  <andythenorth> dunno
22:04:25  <andythenorth> the vehicle sets I’m doing are predicated on “there’s one obvious best choice"
22:04:30  <frosch> andythenorth: but ok, "loading" speed actually benefits the "do not stack ships"
22:04:34  <frosch> so, i think it's good
22:04:46  <andythenorth> yeah, I’ll have to just put it in the docs :P
22:04:57  <andythenorth> I think ships should have a safety factor :P
22:05:03  <andythenorth> perhaps that’s breakdowns
22:05:05  <andythenorth> which I don’t use
22:05:15  <frosch> they have a 20% rating bonus at stations
22:05:18  <frosch> which you don't use :p
22:05:30  <andythenorth> I don’t use that silly FIRS station rating cheat any more
22:05:36  <frosch> :o
22:05:38  <andythenorth> it’s still there, but I never turn it on
22:05:59  <andythenorth> I wanted it because I was playing NARS 2 ‘realistically
22:06:10  <andythenorth> 20 or 30 tile freight trains, single-line railroads
22:06:27  <andythenorth> cross half the map, 5000 or 10000t trains
22:06:28  <andythenorth> silly
22:06:32  <frosch> you can run NARS with 20 tile tranis?
22:06:41  <andythenorth> :)
22:06:56  <frosch> i recall pikka trains to be quite underpowered. is NARS an exception, or did you attach 10 engines?
22:07:03  <andythenorth> attach many engines of course :)
22:07:06  <andythenorth> and freight weight 1
22:07:11  <andythenorth> not the silly high settings
22:07:28  <andythenorth> if RVs would learn to find depots, I’d turn breakdowns back on
22:07:36  <andythenorth> but I got bored of setting explicit orders
22:07:47  <andythenorth> and watching RVs drive round in circles unable to find depots
22:07:52  <frosch> well, i always play in hilly or mountanious, and pikka's train never fit my needs
22:08:23  <andythenorth> you use OGFX?
22:08:24  <frosch> if you have build "too many" serpentines, you do not have enough space for enough tracks
22:08:41  <frosch> as baseset? yes
22:08:48  <andythenorth> I mean the + grfs
22:09:20  <frosch> i think i played ogfx+trains a lot before nuts was around
22:09:29  *** roidal_ [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
22:10:07  <andythenorth> sinking ships
22:10:09  <frosch> it was the only trainset with refitting that was not realism themed :p
22:10:09  <andythenorth> pirates!
22:10:27  <andythenorth> tractive effort!
22:10:32  <frosch> oh, and autorefit
22:10:42  <frosch> i played one toyland game with autorefit
22:10:58  <frosch> because there was candyfloss, toffee and sugar right next to each other
22:11:12  <frosch> it's the only time i could make use of autorefit
22:11:16  <frosch> because nuts did not allow it
22:11:31  <frosch> maybe i should switch back to ogfx+trains :p
22:11:54  <frosch> oh, and i had a ship route for sweets
22:12:08  <andythenorth> ogfx+trains was on coop servers when I played
22:12:14  <andythenorth> I enjoyed the simplicity
22:12:21  <frosch> because it surpassed the cargo amount that makes sense to transport on a mixed cargo train track
22:12:24  <andythenorth> mostly there is one obvious engine choice, and easy wagon choices
22:12:47  <andythenorth> Iron Horse roster probably looks quite similar to ogfx+trains, in capacities, power etc
22:13:09  <frosch> is iron horse company coloured?
22:13:23  <andythenorth> yes
22:13:51  <frosch> CC became boring
22:15:07  <frosch> maybe i should just hack my ottd locally to apply random cc to all wagons
22:15:18  <frosch> well, determintic random, not blinking :p
22:15:23  <andythenorth> make a setting :P
22:15:37  <andythenorth> Iron Horse randomises 1CC / 2CC wagons, but that’s all
22:15:40  <frosch> source patches are the more convincing setting :)
22:15:50  <andythenorth> there was idea to add more random colour to wagons, but eh
22:16:06  <frosch> i could also patch iron horse
22:16:12  <frosch> though i recall i wanted to patch firs :p
22:16:20  <andythenorth> it’s pixa recolouring of wagons, so it’s pretty trivial :P
22:16:23  <andythenorth> no drawing needed
22:16:43  <andythenorth> just add more colour maps
22:16:53  <frosch> andythenorth: nah, i would add a recolouring callback, that randomly picks one of the CC or an unrelated colour
22:17:10  <frosch> like: some of the trains are CC, but some are not
22:17:32  <andythenorth> would you tie it to the silly company colours UI? :P
22:17:42  <andythenorth> one day I should fix that silly UI
22:17:56  <frosch> no, that ui insults me
22:18:05  <frosch> it has 4 liveries for pax trains, but 1 for cargo
22:18:11  <frosch> and i never transport pax
22:18:15  <andythenorth> you don’t like selecitng a checkbox before using a UI control? :P
22:18:17  <frosch> except with busses to boost towns
22:18:36  <andythenorth> extend it to all the installed cargos?
22:18:44  <andythenorth> coal: 1cc, 2cc
22:18:50  <andythenorth> fish: 1cc, 2cc
22:18:58  <andythenorth> all with useful checkboxes
22:19:11  <frosch> andythenorth: i believe in the rule "a game should not look like excel"
22:19:23  <andythenorth> I think we need more excel, not less
22:19:26  <andythenorth> and a ribbon
22:20:00  <frosch> ribbons turned out to be quite hotkey friendly
22:20:05  <frosch> that actually impressed me
22:20:40  <frosch> on the surface it looks like for dummies, but you can actually use them efficiently
22:21:13  <frosch> maybe vim should add ribbons
22:21:25  <andythenorth> NewRibbons
22:22:13  <frosch> it's like, dummies use touchscreens, pros use keyboard, noone needs a mouse :p
22:22:52  <andythenorth> we need a ribbon in OpenTTD
22:23:27  <frosch> ottd does not have enough useful functions
22:23:37  <frosch> how many of the buttons in the menu do you actually use?
22:23:52  <frosch> i get away with 10 hotkeys or so
22:24:03  <Eddi|zuHause> what should i imagine under the term "ribbon"?
22:24:18  <frosch> though i have to select "tram" once per game
22:24:25  <frosch> there is no hotkey to switch roadtype
22:24:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: tabbed toolbar
22:24:31  <andythenorth> I had to look it up tbh
22:24:39  <andythenorth> frosch: no there is not :(
22:24:44  <frosch> Eddi|zuHause: the stuff that replaced the menu starting with office 2003
22:24:52  <andythenorth> I have shift-A for road, but can’t switch tram / not tram
22:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch: that explanation did not help
22:25:29  <frosch> Eddi|zuHause:
22:25:31  <andythenorth> huh, nuts has railtypes included :O
22:25:40  <andythenorth> I thought that was forbidden
22:25:50  <frosch> Eddi|zuHause: it's the answer to "you cannot use pulldown menus with a touchscreen"
22:26:04  <_dp_> pff, I'm out of keys on keybord for hotkeys %)
22:26:15  <andythenorth> more modifiers :P
22:26:24  <Eddi|zuHause> so, "giant overloaded toolbar"
22:26:27  <frosch> Eddi|zuHause: but the impressive thing is that they also work for hotkeys, better than a pulldown menu
22:26:57  <andythenorth> does the ribbon actually switch context to chosen tool?
22:27:28  <frosch> what?
22:27:46  <andythenorth> when you use a hotkey
22:27:58  <andythenorth> does it switch to the appropriate tab
22:28:19  <frosch> there are hotkeys for specific functions
22:28:26  <frosch> and there are hotkeys to navigate the ribbon
22:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i grew up with wordperfect... it had a nice cheatsheet about all the Fx hotkeys
22:29:06  * andythenorth should to bed
22:29:09  <frosch> the former are essentially the same as in classic menus
22:29:22  <andythenorth> frosch: what did you need to patch in FIRS? :P
22:29:23  <frosch> the latter are better, because the last tab remains active
22:29:55  <frosch> andythenorth: parameters for booster cargos, amount required and effect
22:30:09  <andythenorth> oh that :P
22:30:44  <andythenorth> probably not hard, the use of them is all templated
22:31:24  <frosch> yeah, the only problem is that i got the eddi-illness
22:31:31  <frosch> and only ever talk about stuff
22:31:49  <frosch> is it call "eddithis"?
22:32:02  <frosch> "edditis"?
22:32:26  <frosch> yeah, no "h"
22:33:55  <andythenorth> if you leave it, I’ll eventually do it
22:34:34  <andythenorth> can I have a settng to configure breakdowns per vehicle type?
22:34:53  <andythenorth> so I can have useless ships?
22:35:36  <andythenorth> ship breakdowns are silly anyway, averaged over enough time they’re equivalent to speed
22:35:45  <andythenorth> they don’t block networks
22:36:06  <frosch> hehe, only one property :p
22:36:14  <andythenorth> unreliable ship ~= slow ship
22:36:27  <andythenorth> and more smoke
22:36:42  <andythenorth> can do that in newgrf :P
22:37:11  <frosch> same for aircraft
22:37:16  <andythenorth> I only have 2 or 3 generations of ships anyway, dunno why I’m worrying about progression
22:37:21  <frosch> also noone likes aircraft
22:37:27  <andythenorth> I do
22:37:29  <andythenorth> but same as ships
22:37:43  <andythenorth> use AV9: buy Pikka’s equivalent of dakota (DC3)
22:37:50  <andythenorth> use that everywhere
22:38:21  <andythenorth> aircraft only have two properties: speed, and szie
22:38:23  <andythenorth> size *
22:38:29  <andythenorth> due to crashing
22:38:44  <frosch> no
22:38:47  <frosch> they only have "size"
22:38:57  <frosch> speed in air does not matter
22:38:59  <andythenorth> I forgot capacity
22:39:08  <frosch> "size" havitly affects airport throughput
22:39:17  <frosch> well, yes, with "size" i mean "capacity":)
22:39:27  <andythenorth> I was ambigious :P
22:39:33  <_dp_> they only have one bool "is or is not A21" :p
22:39:40  <andythenorth> crashing also heavily affects airport throughput
22:39:44  <_dp_> dunno why other aircrafts exist in game xD
22:39:50  <frosch> as noob i always build the condorde, because it was soo fast, and i thought it woudl transport more
22:40:04  <andythenorth> AV9: Avix Alfa everywhere
22:40:08  <andythenorth> except oil rigs
22:40:19  <frosch> then i discovered that the biggest plane is just better
22:40:28  <frosch> and that for some reason late game planes become smaller again
22:40:35  <frosch> which was an anti-progression
22:40:59  <andythenorth> yeah
22:41:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i noticed that even as a noob
22:41:12  <andythenorth> because realism
22:41:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i never had a plane to replace my 747 with
22:41:28  <andythenorth> the planes were literally like they’re copied from a boeing catalogue
22:41:40  <andythenorth> zero gameplay weighting
22:41:46  <andythenorth> the trains are quite well chosen
22:42:13  <frosch> andythenorth: looks like av9 removed my favorite engine
22:42:19  * andythenorth recommends AV9 strongly
22:42:24  <andythenorth> no zellepin?
22:42:39  <andythenorth> pikka got bored of my zellepin jokes, and punished me for them
22:42:40  <Eddi|zuHause> oil-transporting zeppelin
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22:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the most realistic feature ever!!
22:43:24  <frosch> andythenorth: stratocruiser is my favorite
22:43:41  <Hiddenfunstuff> Why not mercury zeppelin?
22:44:19  <andythenorth> so many planes in AV8
22:44:46  <frosch> but most of them look different
22:44:54  <frosch> which is what matters, doesn't it?
22:45:13  <frosch> well, maybe only the early ones
22:45:17  <andythenorth> ok the stratocruise is nice
22:45:59  <andythenorth> looks matter, but not enough to have 100 planes :P
22:46:37  * andythenorth must to sleep
22:46:39  <andythenorth> bye
22:46:59  <frosch> oh my, more mhl bugs...
22:47:18  <frosch> the height adjustment does not trigger the aircraft inclination
22:47:37  <andythenorth> they just float up, no?
22:47:44  <frosch> when an aircraft takes off, it is first inclined, then turn horizontal, but keeps ascending
22:48:00  <frosch> i should fork ottd 1.4 :p
22:48:05  <andythenorth> climbing without nose pitch
22:48:08  <andythenorth> nice
22:48:27  <andythenorth> fork ottd 0.5
22:48:32  <andythenorth> that was a classic release
22:48:34  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting that that never came up in 5 years of development
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22:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause> and it's not like the height hysteresis never was under discussion
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23:43:18  <realdeal> hello
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23:53:33  <Supercheese> goodbye

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