Log for #openttd on 30th January 2016:
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03:48:58  <Pikkaphone> yes but
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04:12:52  <Mazur> Whose butt?
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05:47:34  <Clockworker_> all of them
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07:25:12  <andythenorth> o/
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07:34:43  <supermop> yo andy
07:34:44  <supermop> \
07:59:08  <V453000> o/ hoomanz
08:00:55  <andythenorth> also V453000
08:01:12  <V453000> hy
08:01:37  <andythenorth> is it done yet?
08:01:47  <V453000> no starting a new project
08:02:49  <andythenorth> brix -> pause
08:02:58  <V453000> just for a little while :)
08:03:08  <andythenorth> there is a correct number of projects to have
08:03:09  <andythenorth> and it’s > 1
08:03:10  <V453000> just 3 people care about it on the forums anyway
08:03:17  <andythenorth> nobody cares about my sets :(
08:03:20  <andythenorth> only me
08:03:22  <V453000> The Community does not demand it
08:03:32  <andythenorth> The Community is never wrong
08:03:51  <V453000> nah I just got kind of stuck when making new maglev ... and I have some groundbreakingly superb ideas for a train set
08:03:52  <V453000> you will ove it
08:03:55  <V453000> love
08:04:29  <V453000> I also almost have the maglev actually done, so might as well finish that
08:05:12  <andythenorth> stop talking, start making my train set
08:05:30  <andythenorth> I wish you’d render me some slighty-realisms ships also
08:05:34  <andythenorth> and slightly-chibi
08:05:48  <andythenorth> with the right length for broken stupid TTD lengths
08:05:55  <andythenorth> then I could paint them with pixels
08:06:02  <V453000> this train stuff will be 4/8 super chibi
08:06:17  <andythenorth> yay
08:06:50  <V453000> I dare say it will be so awesome, it will make andythenorth play the game
08:07:03  <andythenorth> I am playing the game :P
08:07:39  <V453000> oh my :D
08:07:50  <V453000> current state of maglev
08:07:52  <V453000>
08:08:02  <V453000> only need to rework the ground of the tracks
08:08:08  <V453000> the middle rail should be done
08:08:50  <V453000> idea in junctions is that the white "track duct" will be visible from the beginning, and the blue part is the overlay ... that way, you just turn the tracks on - so they light up, you don't build new ones
08:09:19  <V453000> is meant to be a very electric track :) also, maglev trains can now hug the rail
08:09:34  <V453000> like those
08:09:40  <andythenorth> yair that looks better idea than original maglev
08:10:21  <V453000> yeah, concrete slabs are boring as fuck
08:10:29  <V453000> also look HORRIBLE in junctions
08:10:37  <andythenorth> yes
08:10:43  <andythenorth> most horribilest thing ever
08:10:50  <V453000> while junctions are the biggest advantage of this
08:10:57  <andythenorth> what will you do for PBS overlay?
08:11:01  <andythenorth> more electricity?
08:11:13  <V453000> yeah that is an issue, it will make the electrical part get grey
08:11:27  <V453000> but can't do much with that, players can disable the reserved tracks at most
08:11:29  <andythenorth> ask for a patch
08:11:38  <andythenorth>  brighter overlays
08:11:39  <andythenorth> not darker
08:11:46  <V453000> hm, that would be awesome yes
08:11:53  <andythenorth> seems obvious idea
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08:12:10  <V453000> I did realize that but didn't conclude it with asking for a patch :P
08:12:13  <V453000> will ask frog
08:14:07  <V453000> back to modelling the best train set ever :P
08:14:08  <V453000> bai
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08:52:36  <andythenorth> bbl
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09:15:21  <Terkhen> Hello
09:15:51  <Alberth> hello
09:17:51  <V453000> yo
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09:40:14  <Wolf01> o/
09:51:54  <Alberth> moin
10:05:11  <Wolf01> I found another weird trains video :o
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10:06:17  <Wolf01> o/
10:06:47  <andythenorth> o/
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10:07:39  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so I’m removing most of the gaps from most FIRS industries
10:07:44  <andythenorth> still bothering you?
10:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm usually not bothered by things while they are not in my field of view :p
10:08:37  <andythenorth> still worth me removing them?
10:08:41  * andythenorth doing it anyway
10:08:59  <andythenorth> did I mention that FIRS compiles *really* fast with pypy3? :P
10:09:54  <Wolf01> I liked industries with gaps :(
10:10:16  <Wolf01> put a flag to enable it
10:12:11  <andythenorth> nah
10:12:18  <andythenorth> Wolf01: any particular ones you like?
10:12:25  <andythenorth> I am leaving some, for....reasons
10:13:09  <Wolf01> let me check
10:18:32  <Wolf01> the farms, the rubber plantantion
10:18:49  <Wolf01> the copper ore mines are boring and you can remove the gap
10:18:52  <V453000> stuckyard
10:18:54  <andythenorth> yeah the farms I am leaving
10:19:06  <andythenorth> otherwise they block landscape
10:19:12  <andythenorth> and the town industries I am leaving
10:21:01  <andythenorth> dairy has to lose the gap
10:23:54  <Alberth> less unique identification at the mini map :)
10:25:05  <andythenorth> I always use that flashing thing frosch added :)
10:25:21  <Alberth> that works too :)
10:26:39  <V453000> flashing thing?
10:26:44  <V453000> ah that
10:26:45  <V453000> yeah is great
10:29:17  <Wolf01> V did you see I found your bridge on an anime? :D
10:30:07  <V453000> ?
10:30:09  <V453000> wtf?
10:31:14  <Wolf01>
10:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
10:31:58  <V453000> nice
10:32:06  <V453000> but yeah it is strongly inspired with some bridge in brazil or where
10:33:00  <andythenorth> V453000:
10:33:12  <V453000> k not so far . Arganzuela Footbridge (2010) – Madrid, Spain
10:35:54  <Alberth> warm country, close enough :)
10:37:02  <Wolf01> calatrava bridges look nice, too bad they are good only in a virtual reality... too much maintenance and problems
10:37:22  <Wolf01> he should do game graphics instead of real things
10:37:49  <Alberth> nah, VR is obviously still lacking some realism  :p
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10:51:37  <V453000> going in the right direction I belive from
10:53:42  <Eddi|zuHause> at least it's not as terrible as the default/opengfx maglev
10:54:30  <andythenorth> I like the weird corrugations
10:54:37  <andythenorth> I’m not sure they’re good
10:54:40  <andythenorth> but I like them
10:54:46  <V453000> I think if I add some more details to them, they will be fine
10:54:57  <V453000> in corners they look weird but almost anything does
10:55:05  <andythenorth> it’s where they join the terrain in \ / that looks weird
10:55:06  <V453000> more details/noise to distort the perfect shapes helps a ton there
10:55:08  <andythenorth> like they’re floating
10:55:12  <V453000> mhm
10:55:28  <Wolf01> yes, it looks really better the new one, the one with the parallel steps was too weird in NS and WE directions
10:55:32  <andythenorth> finish them in a straight edge?
10:55:49  <V453000> yeah tha should probably finish with straight edge indeed
10:56:40  <andythenorth> can roads cross maglev?
10:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:00:34  <andythenorth> hmm
11:00:36  <andythenorth> FIRS forests
11:00:40  <andythenorth> forests are unsatisfactory
11:00:56  <Alberth> ?
11:01:50  <andythenorth> they should really have fields, like farms
11:01:51  <andythenorth> or something
11:01:57  <andythenorth> or be spread over a wider area
11:02:14  <andythenorth> I considered the lumber mill option, but planting trees manually is very boring
11:03:10  <andythenorth> someone made a grf that spreads forests out much wider, with tracks to cutting areas?
11:05:31  <Alberth> the pax fork of firs by mczapkie?
11:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so unless you're going to implement NewGRF fields in the near future, don't worry about it.
11:07:06  <Alberth> yeah, forests provide sufficient challenge at their size :)
11:08:52  <andythenorth> possibly I need to animate them cutting wood
11:08:55  <andythenorth> that might help
11:09:36  <Alberth> animation is always nice :)
11:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what the problem is. the original growth animation seems fine to me
11:15:23  <andythenorth> it’s not re-implemented in FIRS
11:16:37  <Alberth> mostly, it looks fine rather than being fine :p
11:17:21  <Alberth> it abuses construction stages :p
11:18:17  <andythenorth> it does? o_O
11:18:20  <andythenorth> how interesting
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11:19:35  * andythenorth leaves the gap in junk yard
11:19:42  <andythenorth> some annoyances are by design
11:23:54  <Alberth> :)
11:25:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i have nothing against gaps, but they were kinda getting out of hand
11:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause> also, when you have gaps, you need more variations in layout
11:27:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean like 10 or more
11:27:15  <Eddi|zuHause> not just 3
11:32:01  <andythenorth> agreed
11:32:06  <andythenorth> I have eliminated most of them now
11:32:43  <andythenorth> except for farm-type industries
11:33:21  <andythenorth> for which newgrf fields would be a better solution :P
11:33:28  <andythenorth> but eh, some things will never be done :)
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12:16:21  <andythenorth> :(
12:19:40  <Wolf01> :o
12:22:23  <andythenorth> hmm
12:22:29  <andythenorth> do rivers know their spring point?
12:23:07  * andythenorth wonders about enforcing that there must be always at least one edge between spring node and some endpoint
12:23:13  <andythenorth> so that rivers could be re-routed, but not cut
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12:28:34  <V453000> btw does a base set HAVE to supply x2 sprites?
12:28:36  <andythenorth> bah, translators need to get busy
12:28:46  <andythenorth> FIRS compile is full of yellow “translation outdated” warnings
12:28:50  <andythenorth> no use to me :P
12:29:14  <Alberth> add a suppression flag?
12:30:02  <andythenorth> I could use —quiet
12:30:07  <andythenorth> but some of the warnings are useful
12:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause> --no-translation
12:30:38  <andythenorth> sounds like lang files would be ignored?
12:30:43  <andythenorth> —quiet-lang
12:30:44  <andythenorth> ?
12:30:56  <Alberth> something like that
12:31:09  <Eddi|zuHause> -wno-translation
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12:31:33  <Wolf01> argoneus, do you know if monsters in diablo 3 have specific resistances?
12:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> also, something like this would go in your makefile.local
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12:31:59  <V453000> andythenorth: straight edges help shitloads
12:32:04  <andythenorth> rather than Makefile?
12:32:16  <andythenorth> ok a local option
12:32:17  <andythenorth> I see why
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12:32:29  <andythenorth> V453000: that’s pretty winning
12:32:35  <andythenorth> I’d say done
12:32:41  <argoneus> Wolf01: yeah
12:32:49  <andythenorth> it’s interesting that you have a greige landscape
12:32:49  <V453000> yeah, this is done
12:32:50  <argoneus> they have different elemental resistances
12:33:04  <V453000> now I just need to get the junctions/slopes/stuff done
12:33:19  <V453000> but getting it to look like this was the hardest part
12:33:24  <V453000> junctions will be easy
12:33:34  <V453000> grey landscape is pretty nice tbh
12:33:39  <V453000> you immediately see where stuff is
12:33:42  <andythenorth> I used greige in UI design
12:33:45  <V453000> very good for orientation
12:33:47  <Wolf01> the wiki doesn't say anything, and I found that I do more damage to ice resistant (I suppose) monsters with ice
12:33:47  <andythenorth> white is too stark
12:33:48  <Alberth> amazing, such a simple change having such an impact
12:33:51  <andythenorth> grey is boring
12:34:07  <andythenorth> greige = warm grey, strictly it’s the name for the colour of raw silk
12:34:09  <andythenorth> or linen
12:34:34  <V453000> :)
12:34:58  <V453000> ooh I also need to make tunnels, road crossings, and place the tracks onto bridges :P
12:35:01  <V453000> not so done :D
12:35:05  <V453000> let's get to it
12:35:22  <andythenorth>
12:35:29  <andythenorth>
12:35:35  <andythenorth>
12:35:49  <andythenorth>
12:35:54  <andythenorth>
12:36:02  <andythenorth> V453000: ^ maybe it’s a bit too tasteful :)
12:36:06  <andythenorth> is V453000 tasteful? :P
12:36:32  <V453000> gg
12:36:38  <V453000> time to maglev it up
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16:19:00  <andythenorth> o/
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16:22:52  <frosch123> oh, right...
16:22:58  <frosch123> i remembered why i did not yet patch firs
16:23:04  <frosch123> because it is not written in nml
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16:25:48  <andythenorth> frosch123: it is written in a beautiful car-crash of macro languages
16:25:52  <andythenorth> what’s not to like?
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16:34:12  <V453000> frosch123: is it possible to get a patch which would allow defining custom reserved-track overlay sprites? aka not just greyed out overlay, but something colourful
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16:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: like introduce an action5?
16:35:13  <frosch123> in theory yes, but is it any good?
16:35:20  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: we have railtypes?
16:35:23  <V453000> I have no clue what does action5 mean Eddi
16:35:32  <frosch123> V453000: not relevant since 2010
16:35:41  <V453000> frosch123:
16:35:59  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: action5 is the standard method to extend the base set
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16:36:29  <Eddi|zuHause> unless it's actionA, i always mix those up...
16:37:02  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i don't really know how new railtypes work
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16:37:30  <V453000> anyway, I think custom overlay sprites would make a lot of sense for anything really
16:37:40  <V453000> gray is quite ugly
16:38:07  <V453000> and anything like maglev powered tracks with visual feedback when the electricity turns on at the segments where trains is, would be pretty awesome
16:38:10  <frosch123> anyway, if it would be done, it would be: new item in the graphics section (for example "path_overlay"), if defined it is drawn directly on top of everything; if not defined the normal track_overlay is drawn in greyscale
16:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> but, do you want to have options for a different recolour, or only for a completely different sprite?
16:38:45  <V453000> yeah exactly frosch123 , that would work perfectly
16:38:52  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: would that need a callback flag?
16:38:53  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: recolour is pretty useless for 32bpp :p
16:38:54  <V453000> different sprite Eddi
16:39:04  <V453000> yeah, that too
16:39:23  <Mazur> Weirdest thing: got a new PC, hook up a keyboard, a wireless mouse, and a screen, power on, nothing happens.
16:39:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine callbacks for railtype are rather time critical
16:39:27  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i believe the other optional parts have no flag either
16:39:41  <frosch123> no, they are not time critical, they only run for visible stuff
16:40:11  <frosch123> and only once per tile redrawn
16:40:37  <Eddi|zuHause> then why were people so resistant to variables for railtypes?
16:40:41  <Mazur> Could it be because I should hook up hte screen to the other GPU?  Neither is onboard.
16:40:56  * Mazur is for onc utterly baffled.
16:41:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: using wrong output connector would explain black screen...
16:41:35  <Mazur> HDMI<_>HDMI.
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16:41:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: some BIOS have a detection routine to check which output is connected
16:41:47  <Taede> forgetting to switch on the switch at the back of the power supply helps too
16:42:06  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that depends on the variable :) i was against "nearest town" unless it is cached, i am not against nearby tile info
16:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: do fans or hard disks spin up? does it beep?
16:42:26  <Mazur> Taede: second thing I checked, after the power cablee connetion.
16:42:37  <Mazur> Neither, Eddi.
16:42:55  <Mazur> So had to be power thing, RIGHT?
16:43:11  <Mazur> has*
16:43:11  <Eddi|zuHause> have you checked whether PSU is switched to 110V or 230V?
16:43:20  <Mazur> No, biut hte shop has.
16:43:29  <Mazur> THey've had it running.
16:43:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: yes, that would point to a power problem
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16:44:28  <Mazur> Well, under desk cables are a mess, not even sure what connects what, so I should just clean them out and reuse one by one.
16:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time mainboards had a "lock" that had to be bridged by a jumper
16:44:50  <Mazur> Can't be it, shop has had it running.
16:45:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it could also be hooked up to an actual lock
16:45:17  <Mazur> They even played  Warcraft for a bit to test.
16:45:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, i'd double check the power cable
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16:47:51  <Mazur> Thanks for the amoral support.  As I'm getting older I get less assured of my knowledge.
16:49:04  <frosch123> andythenorth: extractive, organic and ports have different boost requirements... should i add separate parameters for the three types?
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17:05:15  <V453000> yay, logo guy never to be seen on tt-forums again
17:05:42  <V453000> shame he was working on 32bpp too
17:06:53  <frosch123> we continued a bit via pm :)
17:07:13  <frosch123> just like you and andy usually discuss stuff here
17:07:42  <Eddi|zuHause> did i miss some drama?
17:09:59  <frosch123> it's just the usual 1st level support thing
17:10:20  <V453000> yeah I am exchanging PMs with him all the time
17:12:37  <V453000> honestly, if I didn't have as much fun and mainly work-useful experience from making NewGRFs, I would stop this instance.
17:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: recolour is pretty useless for 32bpp :p <-- so are we just going to call recolouring a deprecated feature and all future newgrf stuff will just ignore it exists?
17:14:02  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: even considering 8bpp, recolouring is pretty useless when only using *one* recolouring
17:14:17  <frosch123> it makes sense for cc with 16 recolouring variants
17:14:40  <frosch123> but for reserved/not reserved it is useless in any case
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17:16:01  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: anyway, the proposed railtype callback will not help if you're making a base set
17:16:33  <frosch123> that is true
17:17:04  <frosch123> so, yes, in brix context there is no solution
17:17:39  <frosch123> add adding a separate solution just for basesets is definitely not worth it
17:19:31  <frosch123> we should rather look into options to make railtypes via action 3 baseset useable
17:20:00  <frosch123> (i.e. no property changes, only graphics, and automatically disabled when other grfs define railtypes)
17:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine how that would work
17:20:45  <V453000> forum cripple fight, round 1 go XD
17:20:45  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you distinguish "good" and "bad" action3 when scanning for static newgrfs?
17:21:36  <frosch123> the scanning is not exact anyway
17:21:46  <frosch123> it would rather be, do not call this callback for static grfs
17:22:07  <V453000> frosch123: ignore my request, I am going to get myself banned from the forums and top developing stuff anyway within the next hour most likely :D :P
17:22:43  <V453000> but for Other Authors, it would be nice to have it :P
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17:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so then static newgrfs could contain anything, but the semantics has more safeguards?
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17:26:15  <frosch123> [18:25] <DorpsGek> You've given me 12 commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 5 minutes. <- fu, now i have find another calculator
17:26:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i never had that...
17:26:49  * frosch123 starts python
17:26:56  <andythenorth> start the faster one
17:26:59  <Eddi|zuHause> echo blah | bc
17:27:14  <Eddi|zuHause> or wolfram alpha
17:27:26  <andythenorth> frosch123: internally there are parameters for the different classes of industry; externally, I think it’s just one parameter
17:27:33  <frosch123> what's the "power" operator in python?
17:27:37  <frosch123> ** or ^ or something else?
17:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> pow()?
17:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a operator
17:28:01  <frosch123> ** forks
17:28:04  <andythenorth> anybody who needs to have separate control over farms, mines, ports supply boost can (1) accept their need is not met (2) patch
17:28:05  <frosch123> ** works
17:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting
17:28:24  * andythenorth was afk
17:28:26  <frosch123> ^ seems to be xor
17:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> ^ is usually XOR
17:29:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i used to be in a channel which had a matlab bot
17:29:50  <Alberth> ** seems to work
17:30:21  <andythenorth> Mazur: have you turned it on and off again?
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17:35:04  <V453000> 3/6 junctions done :>
17:37:35  <Alberth> hmm, expected 50% greyed out junctions,  but it was very different  :)
17:38:03  <Alberth> or turned it off and on again?
17:38:20  <V453000> well yeah gray is an option
17:38:27  <V453000> but the blue is so dark that it should be just fine
17:38:47  <Alberth> tracks look splendid with the circuits
17:39:24  <Alberth> makes no sense wrt realism, but it adds a lot
17:39:58  <Alberth> makes the track much more fun to look at
17:40:23  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: imho the not-placed tracks should have no circuits
17:40:52  <V453000> that is an option as well, yes Eddi
17:41:02  <V453000> though I prefer them to be barely visible for now
17:41:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be easily visible at a glance where tracks are and where not. the default maglev are terrible at that
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17:42:08  <andythenorth> V453000: keep the circuit etch shape, just knock it to grey
17:42:18  <andythenorth> otherwise you’ll have no texture
17:42:19  <V453000> well this is very visible Eddi, isn't it
17:42:27  <V453000> yes andy
17:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the vertical tracks have an offset problem
17:42:52  <andythenorth> V453000: otherwise it’s done, done done
17:42:52  <V453000> I don't see any
17:43:06  <V453000> andythenorth: making one junction takes almost an hour, saying done is .. :P
17:43:13  <V453000> + tunnels bridges crossings, ...
17:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the gap to the left barrier switches between 1px and 2px
17:43:17  <andythenorth> well it’s conceptually done done done
17:43:25  <Eddi|zuHause> makes the line look wobbly
17:43:26  <V453000> that is possible Eddi, yes
17:43:28  <andythenorth> finally, somebody solved maglev
17:43:44  <andythenorth> can you do an 8bpp classic TTD version of this? :P
17:43:58  <andythenorth> I want maglev in Iron Horse, but default track is so

17:44:06  <andythenorth> [no need to say the words]
17:44:06  <V453000> can, would be hard, will, not worth the effort
17:45:36  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes, it's visible that there are no tracks, if you concentrate on it. but if you glance at the whole screen, and don't have it in focus, it could be easier if there were no barriers and no circuits
17:46:06  <V453000> barriers have to be there, that is the whole reason why the junctions are working
17:46:12  <V453000> because the overlays are not 3D
17:46:29  <V453000> well they are, but planar ... is what I mean
17:46:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i think no-barriers need a "whole crossing" overlay
17:46:57  <V453000> yes which is a feature I don't currently have :P
17:47:02  <V453000> hence this solution
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17:47:11  <V453000> and bright blue looks clear enough to me to demonstrate where tracks are
17:47:25  <V453000> far better than original/ogfx/zbase maglev for sure
17:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. certainly
17:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just saying it's not optimal in my eyes
17:48:42  <V453000> I might try to toy with the colour of the wires but that is all
17:48:43  <Mazur> andythenorth: several times.
17:48:57  <andythenorth> swapped leads, checked fuses?
17:49:08  <V453000> not exactly :P
17:49:20  <V453000> I was also thinking green/red
17:49:32  <V453000> but 2nd colour is rather disturbing and green does not look so electric
17:49:48  <andythenorth> don’t mix colours
17:49:54  <V453000> exactly
17:49:56  <andythenorth> I thought of red, but I made it in my head, looked bad
17:50:00  <Mazur> Just now i unearthed ghte lead from behind my desk, pokugging it in along hte front, and the speakers bopped.
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17:50:24  <Mazur> However, no life.
17:50:35  *** Sirenia [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:51:08  <Mazur> Other stuff plugged in works, so no fuse problem.
17:52:15  <andythenorth> PSU have any trip or reset or fuse?
17:52:22  * andythenorth hasn’t touched this stuff for 10 years or more
17:52:25  <andythenorth> guessing
17:56:34  <Mazur> Trouble is, front panel only has a single touch button, so no idea as to whether anything is happening there or not.
17:56:56  <Mazur> But it shouldbe lighted in case of power, I'm guessing.
17:57:13  <Mazur> Even with system down/
18:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you just missed some secondary switch
18:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause> pr some cable got loose on the inside
18:04:46  <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried reaching the shop?
18:14:07  <Mazur> No, mhy dahy is out of step, so when I got to this point, they were already closed.
18:14:11  <Mazur> day*
18:14:20  <Mazur> Never mind,I'll find it.
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18:46:28  <frosch123> it compiled :o
18:47:24  <andythenorth> yay
18:47:28  <andythenorth> what was it?
18:47:28  <V453000> only the most complex junction remains \o/
18:47:52  <andythenorth> and I have knocked off some of the boring housekeeping jobs for FIRS 2 :P
18:47:56  <andythenorth> everyone’s a winner eh?
18:48:01  <argoneus> what are you compiling frosch123
18:48:15  <frosch123> firs
18:48:19  <V453000> winwinwin
18:48:26  <andythenorth> how long did it take? o_O
18:48:38  <frosch123> less long than writing the code :p
18:48:57  <Eddi|zuHause> one would hope that :p
18:49:11  <V453000> XD
18:49:14  <frosch123> 55s with disabled mp
18:49:46  <frosch123> but the parameter gui does not work as expected
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18:50:38  <frosch123> oh, i just did not know my own specification
18:50:44  <frosch123> so, nothing unusual :)
18:52:52  <andythenorth> try it with pypy3 :P
18:54:02  <andythenorth> kind of requires faffing with a virtualenv
18:54:06  <andythenorth> for sanity’s sake
18:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that seems way too complicated
18:56:29  <andythenorth> well it does require typing
18:56:35  <andythenorth> so probably yes :D
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19:08:01  <frosch123>
19:08:11  <frosch123> now i would actually have to play a test game...
19:09:17  <V453000> neat shit!
19:09:34  <V453000> that is seriously great
19:13:18  <frosch123> bbl
19:14:03  <Alberth> 200% for 315 crates, haha major havoc :)
19:14:56  <andythenorth> Yair
19:15:12  <andythenorth> also I was _thinking_ about making the secondary production window a parameter
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19:15:23  <andythenorth> I set it to 90 days for v2, it was 30 days in v1
19:15:34  <andythenorth> it’s a global constant, so quite trivial to parameterise
19:15:42  <andythenorth> but I don’t like too many parameters :)
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19:17:49  <V453000> parameters are good for something so wtf complex like FIRS
19:17:55  <V453000> it is basically 6 newgrfs in one
19:18:15  <V453000> especially if defaults just work
19:18:21  <V453000> and the parameters are just extra stuff to fiddle with
19:20:20  * andythenorth wonders if anyone ever sees them anyway
19:20:31  <andythenorth> I don’t think I’d know about them if I didn’t make newgrfs
19:20:55  <andythenorth> ‘parameters’ sounds dangerous
19:20:56  <V453000> well you are a special case
19:22:36  <andythenorth> frosch123: have you found the industry extra text strings?
19:22:48  <andythenorth> oh yeah, they’re in the screenshot
19:22:49  <andythenorth> nvm
19:24:00  <Alberth> you write about them in the documentation?
19:24:12  <Alberth> (parameters)
19:26:22  <andythenorth> not yet
19:26:51  <andythenorth> this is the most I say file:///Users/andy/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build/docs/html/get_started.html#setting-up
19:26:56  <andythenorth> oops, not the internet :)
19:27:09  <andythenorth>
19:27:33  * andythenorth adjusts
19:34:58  <Alberth> room for expansion there :)
19:50:56  <andythenorth>
19:51:10  <andythenorth> I’ve rearranged it to make room
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20:08:00  <frosch123> andythenorth: the "3 months" is not easy to change at all
20:08:16  <andythenorth> for secondaries?
20:08:17  <frosch123> you have 3 registers which store the production from past 3 months
20:08:24  <andythenorth> it’s a single global constant iirc
20:08:28  * andythenorth checks
20:08:36  <andythenorth> PRODUCTION_SPAN
20:08:52  <andythenorth> unless I only *thought* that worked :)
20:08:55  <andythenorth> possible
20:09:35  <frosch123> secondary? i was on the primary page
20:09:53  <andythenorth> yes :)
20:09:58  <andythenorth> I have my own mini-project
20:10:06  <andythenorth> I am wondering how many parameters is too many :P
20:10:10  <frosch123> ah, for delivering multiple cargos
20:10:13  <andythenorth> yup
20:10:16  <frosch123> i think 3 months is fine there
20:10:21  <frosch123> does not need a parameter
20:10:22  <andythenorth> works for me
20:10:46  * andythenorth will delete the ‘todo'
20:10:48  <andythenorth> much better
20:10:53  <frosch123> anyway, which economy/climate should i play?
20:11:06  <frosch123> when i am playing a test game, i can also test stuff :p
20:11:17  <V453000> frosch123: [20:49] <@Mark> now just need a parameter to increase farm initial production
20:11:24  <V453000> is a good point actually
20:11:32  <andythenorth> will you play with SV, or something else, or no GS?
20:11:37  <frosch123> no gs
20:11:54  <andythenorth> I like the basic economies
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20:12:34  <andythenorth> I would play Arctic Basic with Iron Horse or OGFX +
20:12:53  <andythenorth> although it misses correct sprites for 2.5 industries
20:12:58  <frosch123> i want to play iron horse
20:13:06  <frosch123> but i don't like the chemicals in arctic :p
20:13:13  <andythenorth> Temperate Basic is most appropriate for Iron Horse :)
20:13:16  <frosch123> is hot country any good?
20:13:26  <andythenorth> I played IAHC, and really like it
20:13:37  <andythenorth> it’s better balanced ‘big’ economy than full FIRS
20:13:42  <andythenorth> due to experience gained
20:13:49  <frosch123> ok, so IAHC and horse
20:13:51  <andythenorth> but I need Busy Bee or I lose interest :)
20:14:08  <andythenorth> if you get nightly Iron Horse, you get more cargo support, FYI
20:14:20  <frosch123> which climate?
20:14:36  <frosch123> are there meaningful town supplies? or would i even bother delivering towns?
20:14:46  <andythenorth> there is food and so on
20:14:49  <andythenorth>
20:14:59  * andythenorth checks town growth cargos
20:15:39  <andythenorth> goods and food for desert towns
20:15:51  <andythenorth> it’s intended for tropic
20:15:52  <frosch123> V453000: why specifically farms?
20:16:01  <frosch123> or is this just cluster hatred?
20:16:05  <andythenorth> but then you might have terragenisis rage :P
20:16:10  <V453000> farms have very low starting production don't they
20:16:15  <andythenorth> not in FIRS v2
20:16:17  <V453000> tbh I haven't player FIRS ina while personally
20:16:18  <V453000> ok
20:16:18  <V453000>  :)
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20:16:27  <andythenorth> FIRS v2 unwinds some of the silliest mistakes
20:16:31  <V453000> :)
20:16:57  <andythenorth> frosch123: you don’t use RVs, right?
20:18:31  <frosch123> i use heqs trams for feeders
20:19:38  * andythenorth waves at Road Hog
20:19:47  <andythenorth> but eh, I know RVs aren’t for everyone :P
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20:27:43  <frosch123> ah, lucky :) i was worried i had to pick a roster
20:27:59  <andythenorth> there’s only one that works right now
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20:28:07  <andythenorth> parameters are a PITA though :)
20:28:54  <frosch123> good start date for iron horse?
20:29:06  <andythenorth> any time from 1860
20:29:14  <andythenorth> trains are relatively fast in the Brit roster
20:29:19  <frosch123> 1900?
20:29:22  <andythenorth> good
20:29:27  <andythenorth> you might want Termite, up to you
20:29:34  <andythenorth> gains you metro and narrow gauge
20:29:39  <frosch123> hmm, what was that again ...
20:29:45  <frosch123> oh, tracks
20:29:45  <andythenorth> metro is only useful for pax
20:30:03  <andythenorth> not essential
20:30:08  <frosch123> but, no, i don't like track sets
20:30:11  <frosch123> too complicated for me
20:30:30  <frosch123> i want a single mixed cargo train network
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20:32:41  <andythenorth> I could give away what does what in Iron Horse, but I am intrigued
20:33:00  <andythenorth> it’s simple enough, but has 1 layer or so of extra depth that you can use or ignore
20:33:09  <andythenorth> I’ll see what you conclude :P
20:34:05  <frosch123> still batteling the mapgen :p
20:34:15  <andythenorth> it’s hateful in tropic
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20:54:30  <frosch123> oh, factorio hotkeys to not work in ottd
20:54:41  <frosch123> it's ESC, not Q
20:55:48  <frosch123> no idea what a combine car is
20:56:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd call it "MÀhdrescher"
20:57:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (unless it's something completely different)
20:57:50  <andythenorth> it’s mail+pax car
20:58:03  <andythenorth> US terminology, completely wrong for en-gb
20:58:06  <andythenorth> but eh :P
20:58:19  <V453000> XD
20:58:19  <andythenorth> probably some twee term like ‘passenger brake’ in UK
20:58:26  <V453000> frosch123 facroiorized
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21:00:16  <V453000> this is fucking mayhem
21:00:25  <V453000> making stupid ass junctions for all of evening
21:00:30  <V453000> the result is splendid
21:00:36  <V453000> but the time efficiency is zero XD
21:01:10  <andythenorth> srsly, might as well add 8bpp export :P
21:01:14  <V453000> XD
21:01:15  <V453000> how though
21:01:20  <andythenorth> as you have zero efficiency anyway
21:01:21  <V453000> I do have 8bpp sprites
21:01:25  <andythenorth> can’t get worse
21:01:35  <V453000> but converted 8bpp ain't pixel pushed pixel art
21:02:35  <andythenorth> downscale with nearest neighbour it will do
21:02:37  <V453000> but converted 8bpp better than borked 8bpp mode
21:02:43  <V453000> downscale is not the problem
21:02:47  <V453000> pallette conversion is
21:02:49  <andythenorth> meh
21:02:55  <andythenorth> how many sprites is it?
21:02:55  <V453000> read 8bpp not EZ :P
21:03:01  <V453000> fuckload at the moment
21:03:04  <V453000> 3500ish
21:03:09  <andythenorth> too many for me to fix
21:03:15  <andythenorth> 3500 just for maglev?
21:03:16  <V453000> in like 5 files though :P
21:03:21  <V453000> no for everything
21:03:25  <andythenorth> oic
21:03:31  <V453000> for maglev ... hm
21:03:31  <andythenorth> how many for maglev, to nearest 100?
21:03:43  <V453000> yeah around 100
21:03:51  <V453000> plus bridges
21:04:10  <V453000> (joys of base set)
21:04:59  <andythenorth> not too many to fix
21:05:02  <andythenorth> I did rivers :P
21:05:06  <andythenorth> that was similar number
21:05:11  <andythenorth> all climates crap
21:05:12  <argoneus> oy Wolf01
21:05:18  <argoneus> we are 3 for new diablo season
21:05:19  <argoneus> do you want to join
21:05:33  <V453000> :)
21:05:39  <V453000> well ... will see how it turns out
21:05:40  <argoneus> or anyone
21:05:44  <argoneus> V453000 come grind with us
21:05:48  <Wolf01> lol, I just closed it
21:05:50  <argoneus> stop the trains
21:06:00  <V453000> atm I do support 8bpp sprites with valid sprites, but not with pixel pushed proper sprites
21:06:03  <V453000> "works
21:06:14  <V453000> argoneus: I am grinding polygons with hope to get a newgrf
21:06:18  <V453000> drop rates are utter shit though
21:06:23  <argoneus> grinding polygons?
21:06:24  <argoneus> with a stone?
21:06:45  <V453000> it actually is as fast as if I was doing it with a rock yes
21:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: converting palette is done in two easy steps. convert with the reduced palette (no magic colours), then apply the original palette
21:07:31  <V453000> yes Eddi, that is what I am doing ... except I always forget to remove magic colours
21:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to convert the recolour mask as well, things get tricky
21:07:39  <frosch123> i am at 150 m³ alcohol per month
21:07:41  <V453000> but that still does not give a pixel-precise pixel-artish result
21:07:46  <frosch123> but it is made from maize, so not sure...
21:07:47  <V453000> conversion != x1 pixel art
21:07:58  <argoneus> V453000: hope you have it done soon
21:08:02  <argoneus> seems like you're having tons of fun
21:08:18  <Wolf01> argoneus, are you starting a new hero?
21:08:30  <argoneus> Wolf01: yes
21:08:31  <argoneus> new season
21:08:50  <Wolf01> ok, maybe in a day or two, I'm grinding at T4 now
21:08:54  <argoneus> ok
21:09:09  <V453000> argoneus: yeah, not going to happen soon :D
21:09:16  <V453000> still, not interested in grinding some diablo, sorry
21:09:54  <V453000> have a good time though :)
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21:32:07  <frosch123> why can i transport alcohol in an open wagon, but not in a tank wagon?
21:32:22  <andythenorth> edibles tanker
21:38:11  <Supercheese> when you transport alcohol in an edibles tanker, it should be renamed to a tankard
21:38:47  <Supercheese> and don't let the YETIs near it
21:38:56  <Supercheese> you don't want to see a drunk yeti
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21:39:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'm missing a joke in there
21:40:00  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause:
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21:40:53  <Supercheese> and
21:41:33  <V453000> tankard XD
21:43:06  <Supercheese> giant beer stein on rails
21:43:09  <Supercheese> make it happen
21:44:20  <frosch123> a drunken yeti snoring on a flat wagon?
21:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> how did it happen that english people call a "bierkrug" a "stein"?
21:45:08  <Eddi|zuHause> no german ever used that word in this context
21:45:18  <Supercheese> according to wikipedia: ""Stein" is an abbreviation of German Steinzeug "stoneware",["
21:45:27  <Supercheese> and apparently someone took that and ran with it
21:45:30  <Supercheese> likely while drunk
21:45:37  <V453000> XD
21:45:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but a bierkrug isn't even made of stone...
21:46:09  <V453000> apparently someone thinks that germans have their stuff made of stone
21:46:17  <Supercheese> when it comes to alcohol-related terms, it's best not to think too much about it
21:46:28  <Supercheese> same for drug terminology
21:47:19  <V453000> +1
21:52:27  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: clay is some type of stone, isn't it?
21:52:50  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: more like some kind of sand
21:53:55  <frosch123> uhm... how do distant join road stops?
21:54:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you a verb.
21:54:28  <frosch123> do i recall correctly that someone unified ctrl to remove stuff?
21:54:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember that
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21:55:03  <frosch123> oh, nevermind
21:55:11  <frosch123> i hit the wrong keys again
21:56:10  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: earlier i wrote "to" instead of "do"
21:56:23  <frosch123> in average i am correct
21:56:45  <Eddi|zuHause> on average, the river was 1m deep :p
21:58:11  <V453000> XD
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22:00:38  <frosch123> did andy find a way to break breakdowns?
22:00:45  <frosch123> i haven't seen a single breakdown yet
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22:01:20  <V453000> well you can set reliability decay to 0
22:01:25  <V453000> but I guess you should still see some
22:03:17  <andythenorth> I dunno
22:03:23  <andythenorth> did I break them? :o
22:03:52  <frosch123> no idea, maybe ottd is broken :p
22:05:41  <andythenorth> ah
22:05:46  <andythenorth> now FIRS is broken with pypy3
22:05:51  <andythenorth> that’s interesting
22:05:55  <andythenorth> I changed a png
22:06:44  <V453000> how dare you
22:07:01  <andythenorth> yeah
22:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: at least if "it works" is no longer a requirement, you can do some pretty decent speed upgrades :p
22:07:27  <andythenorth> true
22:07:30  <andythenorth> silver lining
22:07:53  <andythenorth> back to py32 then :(
22:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> like "lossy sort" :p
22:08:41  <V453000> yeah :) I like the progress to b ... desaturated base of  tracks and wires
22:08:58  <V453000> still some details to fix here and there, but the main stuff is done
22:10:01  <andythenorth> did you change some colours also?
22:10:11  <andythenorth> definitely better with desaturated unused track
22:10:29  <andythenorth> oh yeah base is less green
22:10:33  <V453000> the only colours changed are the wrinkly ground to desaturated concrete, and desaturated wires
22:10:41  <V453000> yeah less yellow/green
22:10:43  <andythenorth> and gained contrast on the base
22:10:49  <V453000> too
22:11:05  <andythenorth> seriously good now
22:11:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that looks better
22:11:15  <andythenorth> not good enough to get me off classic 8bpp TTD style
22:11:17  <andythenorth> but close
22:11:28  <V453000> that I understand ;)
22:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause> now fix the alignment of the vertical tracks... it drives me nuts :p
22:11:42  <V453000> yeah I will see what is going on there
22:11:55  <V453000> ah nice :D
22:12:23  <V453000> was just reasonless move of the thing
22:12:25  <V453000> idk why
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22:17:51  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: fixed :) thanks for noticing
22:18:07  <V453000> if you want to be more nuts, I got some other bugs that you cannot unsee :P
22:18:18  <frosch123> found a breakdown \o/
22:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause> nah thanks, i'm fine :p
22:18:44  <V453000> well, good night :)
22:24:54  <Eddi|zuHause> somehow the flash and the html5 version of youtube ended up with slight differences in hotkeys
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22:39:07  <sim-al2> Hi guys, stupid question time: For basic NFO bytes, like in the train example on the newgrf specs wiki, how does D8 0E become 3800?
22:40:37  <frosch123> @calc 0x0E << 8 | 0xD8
22:40:37  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
22:40:44  <frosch123> @calc 0x0E * 2**8 | 0xD8
22:40:44  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
22:40:46  <frosch123> @calc 0x0E * 2**8 + 0xD8
22:40:46  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 3800
22:41:00  <Eddi|zuHause> 0E is the high byte, D8 is the low byte. so you have 0*16^3+E*16^2+D*16+8
22:41:07  <frosch123> anyway, better use "\w 3800"
22:43:11  * andythenorth makes better chemical plant sprites
22:43:23  <andythenorth> that aren’t just oil refinery and fertiliser plant combined :P
22:44:15  <andythenorth> also bedtime
22:44:17  <andythenorth> bye
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22:45:06  <sim-al2> Ok thanks, didn't realize that the bytes were "backwards" so to speak
22:45:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's a weird thing to wrap your head around initially
22:46:20  <sim-al2> I think I'm doing pretty well, figured out how to decompile a grf and wading through the long lines of bytes looking for the power ones 0.o
22:46:28  <frosch123> sim-al2: that's why you use escape sequences :) "D8 0E" = "\wx ED8" = "\w 3800"
22:48:33  <glx> would have been different if TTD wasn't written for a LE CPU
22:49:24  <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: instead of battling with decompiled NFO, you could just write an add-on GRF with nml
22:50:09  <sim-al2> I just want to increase the power a bit, writing a whole new thing seems a lot harder
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23:09:14  <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: you can write an addon grf that just changes the power of an existing grf
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23:33:11  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:37:25  <supermop> i still have no idea how to interpret japanese multiple until naming conventions
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23:37:46  <sim-al2> mutiple what?
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23:58:57  <Mazur> You're all going to piss yourself laughing:  turns out, my shiny new Antec case only looks like it has a solid front without "door", there is a door, which closes to near seamlessly
23:59:27  <Mazur> Behind the door are hte actual power switch and reset switch as alway.s

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