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Log for #openttd on 23rd February 2016:
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09:58:52  <Wolf01> o/
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10:42:50  <MonkeyDrone> test test
10:50:30  <ST2> MonkeyDrone: /join #/r/openttd
10:58:39  <Wolf01> a reddit chan on irc?
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10:59:08  <ST2> yeah, I think MonkeyDrone was searching for it :)
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11:06:03  <MonkeyDrone> yeah
11:06:08  <MonkeyDrone> the game server irc channel
11:06:19  <MonkeyDrone> how can those two servers talk to each other and how can we talk to them from here
11:06:37  <ST2> 1st, /join #/r/openttd
11:06:44  <ST2> to you join the correct channel
11:07:22  <MonkeyDrone> ahhhhhhh
11:07:24  <MonkeyDrone> cheers
11:12:26  <Wolf01> uhm, another train accident, in NL this time, seem somebody forgot some equipment on the track or to change a switch
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14:42:08  <MonkeyDrone> anyone knows where i can get a list of the 'content' (mods) for the dedicated server. I do 'content state' and it throws out a huge list that i can't browse in the terminal or the game console, its too big
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14:53:06  <Milek7> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html
14:53:36  <Milek7> why there isn't cargo id listed?
14:56:26  <planetmaker> what you mean with 'cargo ID', Milek7? And concerning NewGRFs: you do not need the cargoID *anywhere*. Use the cargo labels
14:57:13  <planetmaker> If you really use the cargoID in the sense as defined by the spec by any of your NewGRFs you write/modify, you do it wrong [TM]
14:58:18  <planetmaker> (speaking of vehicle newgrfs)
14:58:51  <MonkeyDrone> well i got my logs for the content state IDs, just ran openttd -D >> commands.log and viola
14:59:03  <MonkeyDrone> sweeet, time to get to exercise first and work on this next
14:59:21  <Milek7> game script api operates on CargoID
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15:00:31  <Milek7> and i want to some cargo in firs diffirently than others
15:00:45  <Milek7> /s/to/to treat
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15:06:27  <Milek7> i can do GetCargoLabel on each cargo, but this is pretty ugly solution
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15:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> on the contrary, operating on cargo label is the only sane solution
15:13:43  <planetmaker> yes, you should operate with cargo label. Especially also for game scripts
15:13:46  <Milek7> but why not on id?
15:14:21  <planetmaker> because the ID is *not guaranteed* to be stable accross versions etc.
15:14:36  <planetmaker> the cargo label otoh describes a distinct cargo
15:15:04  <Milek7> ok, new firs would need updated game script config
15:15:10  <Milek7> what is wrong with it?
15:15:21  <planetmaker> that you would get the updated config
15:15:43  <Milek7> and what for industries id?
15:16:16  <Eddi|zuHause> with andy? those change faster than you can look...
15:16:27  <planetmaker> they can be explicitly set. But ^^
15:17:15  <Milek7> industries don't even have labels
15:17:21  <Eddi|zuHause> "i hate this economy. let's make 3 more"
15:17:37  <Milek7> and using name sounds like a terrible idea
15:17:49  <planetmaker> a game script which works with cargo labels just works. With cargoIDs... is a PITA for users
15:17:56  <planetmaker> and for you to maintain
15:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: i'd rather identify industries by their input/output cargos
15:18:58  <planetmaker> yes ^^
15:19:25  <Milek7> what?
15:19:45  <planetmaker> it's a bit boilerplate you need to add there to start with cargo label. convert that to the ID and then get a list of industries which accept or provide the cargo with that ID.
15:19:51  <planetmaker> But that's how a sane GS would do it
15:20:02  <Milek7> writting input/output cargo lists into gamescript code, and then matching it with industries?
15:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: it always depends what you're actually trying to achieve
15:21:32  <planetmaker> kinda, yes
15:22:01  <planetmaker> define the cargos you are interested in. Then look for industries which handle those
15:22:26  <Milek7> but, i am interesed in particular industry
15:22:31  <planetmaker> it makes sure your GS will work also with the FIRS version available literally tomorrow :)
15:22:42  <planetmaker> Milek7, a particular industry has particular cargo input and output
15:23:12  <planetmaker> what is it you try to do?
15:24:26  <Milek7> eg. i want to treat Builders Yard specially
15:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so, look for BDMT?
15:26:45  <Milek7> but BDMT is accepted also by Builders Yard, Bulk Terminal, Hardware Store
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15:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> so, find a cargo that distinguishes those
15:29:32  <Milek7> so i should get in/out cargo from industry, hash in into md5, and compare with predefinied hashes
15:29:35  <Milek7> sounds crazy
15:31:22  <supermop> hmm no andy
15:31:56  <supermop> i wonder what ever happened to that Andean roster that seemed to be drawn about a year ago
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15:39:47  <planetmaker> Milek7, I don't quite see why that should be crazy. It's actually very sane. Look for industries which accept BDMT and supply nothing. Done.
15:41:13  <Alberth> o/
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15:41:40  <Milek7> but why not id!?
15:42:08  <Milek7> industries are added in the middle of list, not at end?
15:42:59  <planetmaker> yes
15:43:32  <planetmaker> Hi 4lberth :)
15:45:41  <Alberth> when you check on cargo, you have less changes to your script, and less versions of FIRS to worry about
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15:47:44  <Alberth> At least as many industries disappear, or get renamed, not only added :)
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17:15:24  <Monkey_> can anyone point me in the direction of how to enable 'addons' on a dedicated linux server
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17:18:10  <Alberth> same way you do at a normal desktop
17:18:19  <Alberth> activate some newgrfs
17:18:28  <Alberth> or use a map with newgrfs
17:19:14  <Alberth> only puzzles are a) how to configure (answer: use a desktop machine, and copy the openttd.cfg file, while the server is not running)
17:19:58  <Alberth> b) how to get the newgrfs there (answer, read the README, find the newgrfs at your desktop version, copy them to the right spot at the server
17:21:07  <Alberth> remember to replace the \ directory separator to / separators in the cfg  if you copy from windows to unix
17:21:54  <Monkey_> thank you
17:22:07  <Monkey_> I already managed to download all the grfs to the server throuhg the command line
17:22:16  <Monkey_> i'll check out the openttd.cfg file
17:22:20  <Alberth> maybe add it to the MP faq?
17:22:20  <Monkey_> only thing missing to do
17:22:50  <Monkey_> well the wiki already has how to download content from the online repository through the command line
17:23:01  <Monkey_> https://wiki.openttd.org/Dedicated_server
17:23:12  <Monkey_> Installing Online Content section.
17:23:34  <Alberth> I believe you, I don't have a server nor am I intewrested in it
17:23:37  <Monkey_> activating it is another matter. i'mgoing ot try someting real quick first. Maybe old savegame keeps loading and that's why its not showing up.
17:24:52  <Monkey_> I am trying to setup a server with some resemblance of sanity in the game with some extra addons that add quality of life improvements to the game
17:25:59  <Alberth> nice blurb that you can read in anyway you like :)
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17:27:18  <Monkey_> :D ty for the help again
17:27:28  <Alberth> yw, have fun
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17:30:02  <Monkey_> think i figured it out, now to wait for it to download 80MB of content on 2Mbps internet.....I'll post an update here when i've tested it.
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17:33:15  <roidal> hi
17:35:33  <roidal> 'in temperate climate the oil wells are soon closing down due to a bug allowing no increase of their production.' – may i ask why this doesn't get fixed?
17:35:56  <sim-al2> It's not a bug, it's a feature (really, it's supposed to be that way)
17:36:22  <roidal> why this is supposed that way?
17:36:32  <Alberth> you get oilrigs instead
17:36:33  <roidal> and why does the wiki say a different thing?
17:36:54  <Alberth> euhm, it's a wiki?
17:37:11  <roidal> that point goes on you! :D
17:37:51  <roidal> but why it is supposed that oil wells can't increase their production?
17:38:08  <Alberth> but default industries in temperate switch from oilwells to oilrigs
17:38:24  <Alberth> not increasing production pushes in that direction
17:38:43  <roidal> hm, so
17:38:48  <Alberth> it was this way already in the original game
17:39:03  <roidal> there are no new oil wells created neither?
17:39:08  <Alberth> if you don't want this, you'll have to use an industry newgrf
17:39:26  <sim-al2> It makes more sense in the context of much smaller maps, pushing you to build into the sea to keep getting oil (just like Britain and the North Sea)
17:39:50  <roidal> tja
17:40:00  <roidal> so its bad if i have a map without see?
17:40:03  <roidal> :D
17:40:27  <Alberth> if you want oil after around 1955 or so, pretty bad yep :p
17:40:42  <Alberth> dig a big hole from the edge? :p
17:41:02  <roidal> yeah, that brings me to another question
17:41:46  <roidal> if i crate a own, big, lake
17:42:03  <roidal> would the game create oil rigs?
17:42:12  <sim-al2> Yes, if it's big enough
17:42:23  <Alberth> and not river, I think, but not sure
17:42:53  <roidal> ok, and how iam able to crate a totally own lake?
17:43:02  <roidal> if i use the water tool
17:43:07  <roidal> its not really like a lake?
17:43:25  <Alberth> there are 2 kinds of water
17:43:25  <sim-al2> I think if you lower land on the edge of the map to the lowest level sea appears (not sure about that)
17:43:48  <Alberth> river, and sea. The latter floods any 0 level land
17:43:58  <planetmaker> Monkey_, the simplest way is to upload a map and load that on the server. Unless you want randomly generated maps with the same settings again and again, then use the NewGRFs setting in the server's openttd.cfg
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17:44:30  <Alberth> so lower land to 0 level, wait for flooding, then rise the edge (if you want a lake rather than a corner of sea)
17:44:40  <andythenorth> o/
17:44:44  <Alberth> \o
17:44:44  <roidal> Alberth: and iam only able to create a river by myselfe?
17:44:56  <Alberth> no idea, sorry
17:44:59  <roidal> ok
17:45:09  <Monkey_> I did just sort out the [newgrf] setion, got my addons working, but thank you planetmaker, i was wondering how can i keep it from generating a new world each time
17:45:14  <Alberth> nice trains andy, fun names :)
17:45:29  <andythenorth> I need more names
17:45:38  <roidal> and if i have a big lake in the middle of the map, would there be any oilrigs or have it to be on the corner of the map?
17:45:40  <andythenorth> british trains tend to have many nicknames, so they were easy
17:45:49  <andythenorth> these ones, not so much
17:46:07  <andythenorth> I need some naming convention
17:46:18  <andythenorth> Road Hog is named after mines, quarries and forests
17:46:34  <Alberth> roidal, not sure, there is a setting to keep oilrigs at the edge within X tiles
17:46:55  <frosch123> hoi
17:47:01  <Alberth> hola
17:47:08  <roidal> hm
17:48:52  <_dp_> hey
17:48:53  <Monkey_> i'm liking NUTS, the colors look awesome in it
17:49:07  <_dp_> roidal, you can try funding oil rigs in game if you allow that in settings
17:49:22  <_dp_> roidal, but they are very picky as far as I can tell...
17:49:33  <roidal> yes, that would be possible too
17:49:47  <roidal> hm, i saw
17:49:56  <roidal> that there is no need for water to create a new see
17:50:15  <roidal> its done automatically if a border-tile is lowered to level 0
17:50:38  <_dp_> depends on some setting iirc
17:50:54  <Alberth> nah, flooding is always on
17:51:16  <_dp_> flooding yes, but not getting in from border
17:51:29  <Alberth> people fake it with a row of river tiles though :)
17:52:42  <Alberth> ah, ok
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17:54:55  <roidal> _dp_: do you know the name of the setting
17:55:02  <roidal> can't find something related
17:55:37  <frosch123> it's called "primary industry construction method"
17:55:38  * andythenorth needs a DanMacK or so :)
17:55:42  <frosch123> or something like that
17:55:55  <frosch123> it has options "none", "prospect" and "like secondary"
17:56:02  <roidal> sorry for the missunderstanding
17:56:13  <roidal> i mean that flood thing from the boarder?
17:57:37  <_dp_> roidal, no, I'm not even entirely sure it exists
17:57:41  <frosch123> no, the map border always floods
17:58:21  <Monkey_> can i enable more than 15 companies? or it won't matter even if i change it in the settings
17:58:49  <sim-al2> I don't think it's possible
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18:00:34  <andythenorth> this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7654/chinook.png
18:00:50  <andythenorth> I want to make multi-unit diesels quite a bit in Iron Horse
18:01:11  <andythenorth> is it weird
18:02:00  *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
18:02:06  <andythenorth> rationale: big engines need to be 2000hp-6000hp
18:02:21  <andythenorth> and I only want to click once to build an engine for my train
18:03:06  <Alberth> see it as newgrf author freedom :)
18:03:30  <andythenorth> I can just hear the counter argument in my head
18:03:32  <roidal> ok, ty to everyone!
18:03:35  <andythenorth> “give the player freedom to choose"
18:03:52  <Alberth> if they don't like it, just ignore it, or hide it
18:04:20  <andythenorth> this is what I want to hear :)
18:04:25  <andythenorth> obviously enough :)
18:06:38  *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07:05  <Monkey_> server v2 test in progress, aww yyiss
18:08:19  *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db51a69.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
18:08:23  <Alberth> as one of the almost 300 servers for 164 users :)
18:08:52  <Alberth> every user can have almost 2 servers all for himself :p
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18:09:55  <Monkey_> success, hehe, just need to configure it
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18:10:09  <Monkey_> yes i've seen those 300 servers, i just want something i can play :P
18:10:21  <Monkey_> and have it running even if i'm offline
18:10:38  <Monkey_> none of the servers have the setup i would like to have
18:10:43  <roidal> finally i got oilrigs
18:10:46  <roidal> :D
18:11:50  <Monkey_> congrats :D
18:11:59  <roidal> :D
18:12:33  <roidal> totally easy
18:12:37  <roidal> create your own ocean
18:12:40  <roidal> :D
18:13:18  <Monkey_> hehe, yeah, dig allt he way :D
18:13:37  <_dp_> ttd logic: no oil under land -> flood it and find some under water :p
18:15:53  <roidal> :D
18:16:58  *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:18:11  <Monkey_> well oil is located underground
18:18:14  <Monkey_> so dig dig dig
18:18:17  <Monkey_> soudns legit
18:20:18  <roidal> i don't like oilrigs
18:20:23  <roidal> you need ships
18:20:27  <roidal> and ships are slow
18:22:24  <roidal> hm, can i use planes to transport oil? :D
18:22:31  <Monkey_> can't you like build as mall land mass to it to hook a station and throw up trains? :P
18:22:37  <Monkey_> or it won't owrk?
18:22:56  <roidal> exactly that was i think
18:22:59  <roidal> but with planes
18:23:02  <roidal> :D
18:23:30  <Monkey_> haha, planes work
18:23:41  <Monkey_> brb, need to switch to computer
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18:24:55  <MonkeyDrone> so much better
18:26:10  <roidal> wb
18:26:19  <roidal> and oil doesn't work with planes
18:26:22  <roidal> :/
18:26:28  <MonkeyDrone> choo choo it is :D
18:26:45  <MonkeyDrone> no ship grfs that have faster ships?
18:27:04  <roidal> hm, would be unrealistic?
18:27:07  <roidal> :D
18:27:59  <MonkeyDrone> it is a game xD
18:28:22  <MonkeyDrone> it can be a little unrealistic :D
18:28:36  <MonkeyDrone> example
18:28:53  <MonkeyDrone> digging an ocean to have a oilrig spawn, how realistic is that? :P
18:28:57  <Alberth> openttd doesn't aim to be realistic at all
18:29:24  <Alberth> sharp 45 degrees corners :p
18:30:10  <roidal> MonkeyDrone: this is only a question of money :D
18:30:31  <roidal> and 45°, i think that was part of some technical restrictions?
18:30:34  <roidal> :D
18:30:51  <MonkeyDrone> roidal, true that xD
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18:31:19  <MonkeyDrone> well real trains smooth out to 45 degrees
18:32:18  <roidal> i meant technical restrictions of the game
18:32:25  <roidal> ?
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18:33:03  <MonkeyDrone> animation restrictions?
18:33:09  <roidal> yes
18:33:14  <roidal> but a really funny thing in ttd
18:33:15  <MonkeyDrone> it's easier to rotate an object 45 degrees
18:33:23  <roidal> having planes flying with 800km/h
18:33:33  <roidal> and a setting that this is divided by 4
18:33:44  <roidal> to get the simulated travel speed
18:33:47  <roidal> :D
18:33:53  <roidal> iirc
18:34:06  <MonkeyDrone> well, game engine is the game engine
18:34:10  <MonkeyDrone> i'm just happy it works :P
18:34:55  <roidal> i really like ottd and what motivated programmer have done with that :)
18:35:49  <MonkeyDrone> hehe, aye, they have done some serious work and serious magic
18:39:15  <MonkeyDrone> the CHIPS set is just eye candy right
18:40:47  * andythenorth knows where the bodies are buried in CHIPS :P
18:41:04  <Alberth> no, it provides functional stations
18:41:16  <andythenorth> MonkeyDrone: Squid Ate FISH contains a speed parameter iirc
18:41:23  * andythenorth only made it, don’t expect facts
18:42:09  <andythenorth> it’s only about 1.3x or 1.5x faster
18:42:12  <MonkeyDrone> roidal can use it
18:42:34  <MonkeyDrone> Roidal, try Squid Ate FISH. He's the one with the boat problems :D
18:42:38  <andythenorth> oic
18:42:40  <MonkeyDrone> 1.5x is better than 1.0
18:42:56  <andythenorth> I think it’s a none-issue
18:43:02  <Alberth> nah, it's a pipeline, speed isn't relevant
18:43:04  <andythenorth> just use more, smaller ships
18:43:52  * andythenorth wonders what google search has against flickr
18:44:03  <MonkeyDrone> flickr is so 90s
18:44:03  <andythenorth> obviously it’s a Yahoo product, with no Google ads on it
18:44:26  <andythenorth> I spend days on google images looking for stuff, and all I get is wikipedia, and results from tt-forums :P
18:44:36  <andythenorth> then I find gold on flickr
18:44:44  <andythenorth> maybe flickr is the dark web? o_O
18:44:50  <MonkeyDrone> what were you looking for o.o
18:45:09  <Alberth> flickr reuiqres a zillion sites with scripts to display anything :(
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18:46:25  <MonkeyDrone> sorting out citybuilder is going to be fun :D
18:46:46  <MonkeyDrone> looks like i'll have to borrow someone's premade settings :D
18:47:23  <MonkeyDrone> i googled 'Citybuilder settings wiki', Pharoah popped up on front page xD
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18:49:38  <roidal> MonkeyDrone: i will take alook
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18:55:19  <andythenorth> flickr is where all the train photos are :)
18:55:24  <andythenorth> apparently
18:57:37  <Wolf01> oh I see factorio on steam
18:59:30  <MonkeyDrone> anyone has a city builder script template to share?
19:00:19  <MonkeyDrone> noooo i think i'm using the wrong script, there's another called Simple City Builder gaem script
19:00:25  <MonkeyDrone> yarrrgh
19:00:55  <ST2> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/gs/
19:01:18  <MonkeyDrone> thank you ST2
19:01:24  <ST2> np :)
19:02:03  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, there are tons of cb scripts))
19:02:26  <MonkeyDrone> aye, i just need the simple city builder script
19:02:39  <MonkeyDrone> not looking for anything complicated :D
19:02:40  <MonkeyDrone> ty
19:03:28  <roidal> what is a city builder script?
19:03:34  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, well, that one is good, but not really simple))
19:04:02  <MonkeyDrone> it's what i require for now :D Once i'm comfortable with this level, i'll move up in the world
19:04:04  <ST2> compared with Aphid's CB, it's simple, yeah xD
19:04:54  <MonkeyDrone> yeah, i was trying to configure Aphid's CB....it did not go so well
19:06:15  <MonkeyDrone> Town Growth Mechanism : Normal or Expand, difference?
19:08:10  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, oh, I don't know where to even start explaining that %)
19:08:34  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, set to normal, expand is similar just not quite the same)
19:09:08  <MonkeyDrone> expand i assume that the town tries to cover more ground faster than making buildings
19:09:30  <MonkeyDrone> instead of increasing density, it takes over more land
19:10:00  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, nah, it's more about technical stuff, nomal uses normal mechanics, and expand tries to do the same with special house building command
19:10:43  <MonkeyDrone> so what's better in terms of faster town growth?
19:11:05  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, can probably give you our settings for this gs btw
19:11:06  <MonkeyDrone> no need to get into details, simple explanation will suffice how it affects the end-user
19:11:08  <Alberth> just try both?
19:11:31  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, neither should be faster, but expand probably is xD
19:11:41  <MonkeyDrone> i plan on trying both, would just be nice to see what i should be looking out for
19:11:53  <MonkeyDrone> hehe, expand shall be my first test run :D
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19:13:22  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, there was no way to use normal mechanics in ttd before 1.4 or so, so expand is just an attempt to mimic it by other means
19:14:12  <MonkeyDrone> so normal would be the default game mechanic that was coded for OpenTTD. Expand mimics the original TTD town growth?
19:15:40  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, yep, pretty much
19:16:16  <MonkeyDrone> cool, thanks. I will go with expand and see how it goes and i agree this simple CB is not as simple as it is named xD
19:16:35  <MonkeyDrone> these rows in settings need to be color coded xD
19:16:45  <MonkeyDrone> half the time 'im just trying to find where i was
19:16:48  <Alberth> maybe the other ones are even more complicated?  :p
19:17:08  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, here are settings for our 5k cb server: http://pastebin.com/wZ4jw0Pw
19:17:39  <_dp_> MonkeyDrone, ouch, no it's 30k
19:17:56  <MonkeyDrone> yeahh simple CB works :D
19:18:03  <MonkeyDrone> 30k sounds nice
19:18:32  <MonkeyDrone> saved :D i'll give it a test run in a sec
19:18:36  <MonkeyDrone> and see what it looks like :D
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19:26:06  <MonkeyDrone> x.x , downloading 80MB of addons on 4Mbps, yay
19:26:17  <MonkeyDrone> server is online, just need to connect to it now
19:26:33  <ST2> feel happy you didn't picked YETI :P
19:26:42  <MonkeyDrone> what's wrong with YETI?
19:26:51  <MonkeyDrone> i got FIRS up and running ...:D
19:27:02  <ST2> couple hundreds of MB's, I think ^^
19:27:23  <MonkeyDrone> oh...
19:27:40  <MonkeyDrone> i was looking at zbase....i can use it clientside even if server doesn't have it?
19:27:44  <MonkeyDrone> that was like 200mb something
19:27:50  <MonkeyDrone> 32bit graphics
19:28:02  <Alberth> basesets are independent of server
19:28:30  <MonkeyDrone> nice, i should grab zbase then
19:29:11  <MonkeyDrone> looking forward to playing with NUTS, looks very nice with all the colors from what i've seen of it
19:30:18  <MonkeyDrone> do you guys suffer from lag issues when the map is full of stuff?
19:31:01  <MonkeyDrone> i've been playing on the reddit server #2, lots of mods on it. Can't use monorail or maglev trains on it apparently -.- so depressing but the server has become quiet laggy with so much going on across the map
19:35:34  <MonkeyDrone> _dp_, i see your config now, looks good. i'm gonna mod it a bit to suit my needs ;D weee
19:35:58  <sim-al2> Sometimes the boats are the problem, but too many trains and other vehicles cause the server to slow down
19:37:01  <MonkeyDrone> slowing down is fine, as long as it's going smoothly, but jerky mouse movements ingame and skipping frames?
19:39:30  <sim-al2> That seems to happen either if the connection is poor, or if you are nearly on the edge of being too slow
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19:43:09  <MonkeyDrone> cpu speed could also be alimiting factor correct, i don't know what machine their server runs on
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19:44:20  <sim-al2> I can't remember, but it's a good Intel quad core
19:44:47  <MonkeyDrone> aye, but since the game is Single threaded, you need a stronger single core
19:45:20  <MonkeyDrone> ah well, there is also a lot going on in that server, massive trains, its out of control xD
19:45:30  <sim-al2> I see many boats on there, it's a little tiresome telling people to use buoys and being ignored
19:46:02  <MonkeyDrone> lol
19:46:16  <MonkeyDrone> yes, people actually went out of their ways to make more water i believe and setup oil rigs and stuff
19:46:43  <MonkeyDrone> didn't know boats caused lag, game engine issue to do with water?
19:47:29  <sim-al2> No, pathfinding gets exponetially higher as the distance the boat has to navigate increases
19:47:39  <Alberth> actually, the client desktop must be bigger than the server
19:47:51  <sim-al2> Buoys seem to almost eliminate the problem, but people are lazy...
19:47:55  <MonkeyDrone> ah, ok. Makes sense where the cpu juice is going.
19:48:06  <Rubidium> it's not ships per se, if you create a 1x1 grid of roads the busses will cause the same kind of problems
19:48:10  <Pici> do planes have the same problem?
19:48:26  <Alberth> nope, they don't route at all :)
19:48:37  <MonkeyDrone> i can totally understand the issue for the water, it has to traverse a lot more ground, trains it has tracks, so it's simple. Airplanes fly in straight lines , vehicles follow roads
19:49:13  <MonkeyDrone> its the constant turning / recalculating. I understand that
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20:00:10  * andythenorth hopes that photo owners don’t actually think flickr *can* prevent downloading the image files
20:00:47  <andythenorth> spaceball.gif is a good hack, but the actual image still has to get to my browser...
20:02:38  <Wolf01> it's like the ones who don't want the right mouse button enabled... you can only disable it with jscript... and you can force it disabling the jscript or simply pressing "shift"
20:05:02  <Alberth> The concept of having private data at the global Internet is a bit weird :p
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20:16:51  <Milek7> i need GSCargoMonitor::GetIndustryDeliveryAmount but without company filter
20:22:15  <frosch123> make a loop over the companies
20:25:35  *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:29:32  * andythenorth has visited the ‘prototype for everything’ department
20:29:36  <andythenorth> and come out with goodies
20:30:03  <MonkeyDrone> what goodies we got santa?
20:30:11  <andythenorth> only trains and stuff
20:30:42  <MonkeyDrone> trains with wings?
20:34:19  <Milek7> frosch123: i don't see company list in nogo api
20:35:22  <Alberth> https://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSCompany.html  second enum
20:35:43  <Alberth> COMPANY_FIRST, COMPANY_LAST, iirc
20:37:09  <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/siliconvalley/repository/entry/main.nut#L251 <- there are dozen of examples if you look at other scripts
20:37:22  <andythenorth> does this http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=189715
20:37:27  <andythenorth> look different enough to this
20:37:29  <andythenorth> http://www.ovrtrains.com/images/P/ATH-96849-2.jpg
20:37:30  <andythenorth> ?
20:37:36  <andythenorth> or boringly similar?
20:37:54  <andythenorth> Iron Horse rosters, the trains need to be visually distinct
20:38:12  <frosch123> one is blue
20:38:15  <frosch123> the other is green
20:38:22  <frosch123> :p
20:38:55  <Milek7> frosch123: but company_first company_last are useless
20:39:00  <frosch123> anyway, the green one has a proper driver cabin
20:39:14  <Milek7> companies could be deleted
20:39:19  <andythenorth> frosch123: so if I just use different colours
 :P
20:39:31  <andythenorth> also this one comes in a pack of two http://www.bcoolidge.com/NYC%20Pix/RS2s%20and%20Flanger%20at%20Natick,%20MA%202_61.jpg
20:39:33  <frosch123> Milek7: guess what, neither nocargoal nor silicon valley have problems dealing with that
20:39:43  <frosch123> just look at other scrtips
20:39:59  <andythenorth> and I’ll make the cab 2CC http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/other/08_slides/as1057.jpg
20:40:42  <Alberth> if you don't make them available at the same time, there is no problem, I think
20:40:46  <frosch123> andythenorth: most engines in some area seem to look the same
20:40:53  <andythenorth> all have wheels etc
20:40:53  <Alberth> problem / confusion :p
20:41:08  <andythenorth> most euro locos are boxes
20:41:09  <Alberth> and all wheels are round too :p
20:41:10  <frosch123> so, make the colour progress together with the stats? :p
20:41:14  <frosch123> also gets rid of cc :)
20:41:22  <andythenorth> gen 1: red
20:41:25  <andythenorth> gen 2: yellow
20:41:26  <andythenorth> :P
20:41:27  <andythenorth> etc
20:41:32  <Milek7> frosch123: i can do it by checking isvalidcompany, but this is ridiculous
20:41:36  <frosch123> here old engines are green
20:41:39  <frosch123> then they turn black
20:41:47  <frosch123> and then red
20:42:02  <Alberth> Milek7: yep, programming APIs are ridiculous :)
20:42:32  <Alberth> alternatively, you can build your own list of valid companies
20:42:46  <Alberth> frosch123:   haha :)
20:47:32  <andythenorth> oops
20:47:41  <andythenorth> this roster has only 4 locomotives
20:47:47  <andythenorth> and their names all begin with B :o
20:47:53  <andythenorth> unintentional :P
20:48:12  <andythenorth> is that bad?
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20:52:20  <frosch123> you raise expectations for the other letters
20:52:34  <Alberth> Bad ass engines :p
20:55:39  <Rubidium> andythenorth: or make a new roster every year with themes starting with a particular letter
20:55:47  <luaduck> hey folks, getting a really weird error on one of our production servers
20:55:53  <luaduck> getaddrinfo for hostname "f", port 3989, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type tcp failed: Name or service not known
20:56:20  <luaduck> the only thread I can find on the forum says it's from using the -f command line option, but that was back from like 2010 when I'm guessing fork wasn't implemented
20:56:31  <andythenorth> Rubidium: 26 years if I stick to Latin? :o
20:57:32  <Rubidium> andythenorth: ought to be enough, right?
20:57:40  <andythenorth> probably
20:58:24  <Rubidium> luaduck: you probably started OpenTTD with ./openttd -Df as parameter or something[4~
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20:58:54  <Rubidium> which could be just a simple typo, but that effectively puts f in the list of hosts to bind on
20:59:35  <Rubidium> luaduck: clear the content of server_bind_addresses
21:00:13  <luaduck> huh, fixed it
21:00:18  <luaduck> why would that randomly pop up?
21:00:51  <frosch123> getaddrinfo was the function of the week, wasn't it? :p
21:01:38  <Wolf01> yep
21:01:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that was already more than one week ago, right?
21:03:19  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, no, pretty much exactly one week
21:03:40  <frosch123> well, the cve number was from 2015
21:04:11  <Eddi|zuHause> well... responsible disclosure and stuff
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21:07:11  <luaduck> oh, so it was a glibc flaw?
21:07:24  <frosch123> i don't think so :)
21:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause> luaduck: that has probably nothing to do with your issue :p
21:08:52  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Rubidium: 26 years if I stick to Latin? <-- seems to work for QI so far :p
21:09:21  <andythenorth> bah, all the engines I want to draw look similar
21:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> make more engines that you don't want :p
21:09:46  <andythenorth> this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/SAR_Class_91-000_91-003_BF.jpg/895px-SAR_Class_91-000_91-003_BF.jpg
21:10:01  <andythenorth> looks like this? http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=189715
21:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be much shorter
21:11:07  <andythenorth> yes
21:11:17  <andythenorth> but the gestalt is the same?  Fundamentally?
21:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot do rosters by that rule...
21:12:05  <Eddi|zuHause> half of the engines of each country look the same
21:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause> like almost all modern german engines use the same chassis design
21:12:44  <andythenorth> yup
21:12:53  <andythenorth> but I have generations 25-30 years apart
21:13:01  <andythenorth> and 1 express, 1 heavy freight, 1 branch line
21:13:12  <andythenorth> seems silly to make them look similar? o_O
21:13:20  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
21:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> make them differ in small details
21:14:11  <andythenorth> I think you are helping me rationalise a poor decision :)
21:14:16  <andythenorth> but I can always change the sprites later :P
21:14:41  <andythenorth> I am drawing what I like from RL, not what the roster needs
21:14:47  <andythenorth> bad
21:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause> hence my first statement :p
21:18:08  <andythenorth> yup
21:19:10  <andythenorth> I’m also trying not repeat engine shapes from British Iron Horse :P
21:19:14  <andythenorth> that might be a fool’s game
21:19:24  <andythenorth> there are only 3 or so shapes for diesel engines
21:27:47  <Alberth> do you need more than 3 diesel engines?
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21:34:51  <FLHerne> JGR: Good evening
21:35:37  <Alberth> evenink
21:35:42  <FLHerne> I started playing with your excellent patchpack rather than my flaky old home-bodged one, but there seems to be an issue with town-cargo production
21:35:57  <FLHerne> Alberth: Good evening to you too :-)
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21:38:31  <FLHerne> A city of 5000 people produces about 1500 passengers/month, one of 1000 people produces about 100/month. The non-linearity makes it hard to justify a decent service to small towns without massive overloading from the big cities
21:39:07  <FLHerne> Perhaps it's supposed to be that way - in that case, what do I need to tweak?
21:39:42  <_dp_> FLHerne, it's also random as hell
21:40:08  <andythenorth> Alberth: I need at least 9000
21:40:30  <andythenorth> or about 7
21:40:31  <Alberth> :O
21:40:52  <andythenorth> if anyone wants to play past year 2000 or so, I need another 3 maybe
21:41:37  <Eddi|zuHause> 1950-2020?
21:41:51  <Alberth> how come this isn't a problem with steam engines?
21:41:57  <Eddi|zuHause> 4 generations
21:42:10  <andythenorth> steam engines look different
21:42:25  <andythenorth> must diesels are about 22m long and look like a box
21:43:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: more technical details shine to the surface with steam engines
21:43:15  <Eddi|zuHause> tender/tank, wheel arrangement, ...
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21:44:43  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas with diesel, it's all hidden under the chassis
21:44:55  <Alberth> boring :)
21:45:27  <Alberth> or realistic :p
21:47:06  <sim-al2> Not withstanding the European DMUs with engine(s) occupying a part of the would-be passenger compartment
21:47:09  <Alberth> get inspired by the animal name of the engine?
21:49:00  <andythenorth> I would end up going NUTS :)
21:49:07  <andythenorth> sim-al2: still just a box...
21:49:27  <sim-al2> Yeah, they all are though :p
21:49:46  <Alberth> less diesel then?
21:50:35  <Alberth> or smaller variations, longer cabins, different chimney psition
21:51:11  * andythenorth screenshots
21:51:11  <Alberth> different windows in the cabins
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21:55:28  <andythenorth> Alberth can tell these apart? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7656/antelope_3.png
21:56:37  <sim-al2> Those look great
21:57:45  <andythenorth> ta
21:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of difference there
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22:01:49  <andythenorth> and yet I drew nothing new :)
22:01:56  <andythenorth> literally just moved existing pixel
22:01:59  <andythenorth> pixels *
22:02:12  <Alberth> like FIRS buildings :p
22:02:18  <Alberth> look fine to me
22:02:44  <andythenorth> ok good :)
22:03:40  <Alberth> good night
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23:00:56  <supermop> yo
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23:51:59  <drac_boy> hi
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23:56:31  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:56:34  <drac_boy> correct me if I'm wrong but say you made a trainset that had both a reefer van and a goods van .. you could code it that if an industry grf exists with this class then the goods van would only take fruit but if the class isn't present then the goods van can accept being refitted to food too
23:56:52  <drac_boy> (sorry if I maybe couldn't make it more clear?)

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