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00:18:24 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:26:29 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:30:05 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:ddd9:a1d5:4094:5c27] has joined #openttd 00:40:41 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:58 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has joined #openttd 00:55:33 *** _dp_ [~dP@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe69:152c] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 00:55:39 *** dP [~dP@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe69:152c] has joined #openttd 00:55:41 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 01:22:34 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f049235138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 01:24:17 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:30 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 01:50:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:51:07 <Wolf01> 'night 01:51:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:52:03 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:06:40 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:28 *** rah [rah@verain.settrans.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:28:32 *** rah [rah@verain.settrans.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:49 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:ddd9:a1d5:4094:5c27] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:24 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-173-67-246-148.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:59:55 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 03:00:11 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-173-67-246-148.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:03:01 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d02410e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 03:09:59 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08348b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:30:28 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:51:07 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:41 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 04:18:06 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-173-67-246-148.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:20:19 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-173-67-246-148.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:55:05 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 05:37:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6B2A0.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:37 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:12:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:18:40 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:19:30 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:24:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:26:17 <andythenorth> o/ 06:27:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 06:32:28 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:02:56 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 07:14:14 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:14:17 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 07:20:34 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:27:20 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 07:27:23 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:56:03 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:9962:e260:3821:42e5] has joined #openttd 08:14:58 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:15:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 08:20:18 *** ektor [~ektor@122-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #openttd 08:21:38 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:26:05 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:27:26 <Alberth> hoi 08:29:13 <frosch123> lo 08:37:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E22.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:51:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:51:59 <andythenorth> coffee cat 09:00:17 <Alberth> hi hi 09:00:42 * andythenorth didnât rage quit on the roads thing 09:00:43 <andythenorth> yet 09:01:07 <andythenorth> I have long had this idea about âtrailsâ or some other kind of off-highway road 09:01:21 <andythenorth> how would it work though? 09:01:50 <andythenorth> are roads and trails mutually exclusive? 09:01:56 <andythenorth> and can only cross with bridges? 09:02:16 <andythenorth> or do vehicles have some kind of compatibility table? 09:18:55 <Alberth> problems always arise when you start digging :p 09:21:51 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:21:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:21:59 <andythenorth> well, I am quite happy to forget this part of the idea :) 09:22:04 <andythenorth> but not before considering if itâs good 09:22:19 <Supercheese> Roadtypes eh 09:22:24 <andythenorth> no 09:22:48 <Supercheese> Roadtypes as railtypes O_o 09:22:51 <Supercheese> ?* 09:22:51 <andythenorth> Roadtypes is a turkey 09:23:56 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:28:38 <andythenorth> trails might be TMWFTLB 09:29:03 <andythenorth> basically, youâd get to use mining trucks or similar, but on totally self-contained routes 09:29:52 <andythenorth> the novelty would be nice for a few games, but itâs a lot of code to touch for an inextensible novelty 09:29:57 *** norbert79 [~norbert79@92-249-192-229.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 09:29:58 <Alberth> I'd suggest to keep things simple 09:30:54 <Alberth> to give it a chance of some use, I'd say you'd need to be able to connect to "normal" road too, however. 09:30:58 <andythenorth> yeah 09:31:08 <andythenorth> and then you just build normal road everywhere... 09:31:29 <Alberth> that is the visual aspect 09:31:29 <andythenorth> or we have to have speed limits and power adjustments and axle loadings :P 09:31:41 <Supercheese> I'd settle for diagonal roads 09:31:43 <Supercheese> :P 09:31:51 <andythenorth> or we have similar to canal / ocean speed fraction, and that doesnât work either for gameplay 09:31:53 <Alberth> Supercheese: ever tried drawing them? 09:31:59 <Supercheese> Sure haven't 09:32:03 <andythenorth> canât be done 09:32:16 <Alberth> I tried, it doesn't work 09:32:18 <Supercheese> probably easier than diagonal bridges though 09:32:35 <Alberth> even at diagrammatic level, just a grid of lines 09:32:52 <Alberth> bridges is perhaps the same problem 09:33:44 <andythenorth> roads would span 2 tile width in a way that rails donât 09:33:44 <Alberth> andy, if you want speed stuff and axle stuff, I'd say the RV must be able to detect what road it is using, and from there, it's newgrf territory 09:33:53 <andythenorth> yeah, and I dislike all of that 09:33:59 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-53-172.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 09:34:10 <Alberth> some people will freak on it :) 09:34:14 <andythenorth> itâs nice to have offered 16 railtypes and all the crazy stuff 09:34:17 <andythenorth> and that some players love it 09:34:26 <andythenorth> but it does nothing for the game I still enjoy playing 09:34:42 <Alberth> you're free to ignore road types :) 09:35:26 <andythenorth> also ignoring hard-coding a separate type of road 09:35:44 <andythenorth> that just leaves road/tram, with catenary on/off 09:36:18 *** norbert79 [~norbert79@92-249-192-229.pool.digikabel.hu] has left #openttd [] 09:37:25 <frosch123> if you add varaction2 stuff to draw the default roadtypes, you could use townzones and stuff to draw dirt roads outside of roads 09:37:30 <frosch123> *outside of towns 09:37:37 <andythenorth> yeah, I wondered about that 09:37:41 <frosch123> it would remove "highways", but i do not like them anyway 09:37:54 <andythenorth> iirc, there are some âmissingâ things that would let roads be visually better with newgrf 09:37:59 <andythenorth> thereâs some thing with snow also? 09:39:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: whatâs your meaning of âhighwaysâ in this case? o_O 09:39:59 <frosch123> http://icons.wxug.com/hurricane/chrisburt/yuki3.jpg <- if roads looked like that, in ottd perspective you would not have to worry about drawing actual sprites 09:40:03 <frosch123> roadhog would be done 09:40:34 <frosch123> http://i.imgur.com/Uwnw1.png <- that kind of highway 09:40:43 <frosch123> modern intercity transport 09:40:46 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-53-172.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:53 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1kaovj3XoQ 09:40:56 <frosch123> in contrast to 1850 intercity transport 09:41:08 <andythenorth> oh yeah, those 2 lane things are bollocks 09:41:35 <andythenorth> occasionally I build them to segregate fast and slow vehicles, but thatâs work 09:44:23 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 09:48:13 <andythenorth> I need to extend the road construction dropdown on global toolbar 09:48:59 *** ektor [~ektor@122-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:03 <andythenorth> I considered fragmenting ROADTYPE_TRAM and ROADTYPE_ROAD everywhere, I think that sucks 09:49:09 <andythenorth> I want to pass a bool flag instead for catenary 09:50:24 *** ektor [~ektor@231-44-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #openttd 09:50:31 <andythenorth> is there some cb registered as the handler for the dropdown? 09:50:51 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:52:21 <Alberth> I like that kind of layout, not sure if it's useful though 09:53:37 <Alberth> bbl 09:53:42 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 09:54:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can connect to the toolbar whatever you like 09:58:17 * andythenorth explores 09:59:44 <andythenorth> ok found the handler 10:03:16 * _johannes just cheated to get more money and then was rewarded with chairman status :) 10:03:38 <frosch123> too much realism? 10:04:19 <_johannes> :D 10:08:28 <andythenorth> well 10:08:42 <andythenorth> we have ROADTYPE_TRAM and ROADTYPE_ROAD 10:09:04 <frosch123> the toolbar does not need to follow that 10:09:14 <andythenorth> thatâs what Iâm trying to figure out how to do 10:09:17 <andythenorth> Iâve found ShowBuildRoadToolbar(Roadtype roadtype) 10:09:25 <frosch123> you can just make different button pass those types to the contruction toolbar 10:09:31 <andythenorth> but I canât see how the toolbar calls it, so I can stick some conditional logic in 10:09:45 <frosch123> MenuClickShowRoad 10:10:17 <frosch123> ToolbarBuildRoadClick <- err, that on 10:10:50 <frosch123> MenuClickBuildRoad <- together with that one 10:11:02 <frosch123> ToolbarBuildRoadClick defines the entries in the menu 10:11:06 <frosch123> MenuClickBuildRoad reacts to them 10:11:37 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-53-172.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:53 <andythenorth> but MenuClickBuildRoad uses _last_built_roadtype? 10:12:04 <andythenorth> not the one from the selection widget? 10:12:35 <frosch123> that is when you click the button instead of the dropdown menu 10:13:01 <frosch123> MenuClickBuildRoad(int index) <- index is the entry in the dropdown menu 10:13:22 <frosch123> you can just map it do the roadtype differently, and set your catenary flag as well 10:14:55 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-53-172.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 10:17:01 <andythenorth> ah, so I can just use the index knowing the list order 10:17:02 <andythenorth> ok 10:17:09 * andythenorth gets it now 10:18:04 <andythenorth> where the DropDownListStringItem has ROADTYPE_TRAM as a parameter, is that returned to MenuClickBuildRoad also? 10:18:14 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 10:18:20 <frosch123> ah yes, that's actually the "index" :p 10:18:57 *** Jam35 [~jam35@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:19:44 *** Jam35 [~jam35@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 10:22:38 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:23:55 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:23:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:25:04 <andythenorth> ah 10:25:09 * andythenorth baby steps in C++ 10:25:16 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:21 <andythenorth> does (RoadType)index convert that to a RoadType class, using a constant? 10:25:32 <andythenorth> and then pass the class around? 10:25:42 <frosch123> it's an enum, no class 10:25:52 <frosch123> just ignore it 10:25:53 <andythenorth> oh :| 10:26:14 <frosch123> it makes it compile, nothing more 10:26:22 <andythenorth> learning C++ years after learning scripting scripting languages is _really_ hard :) 10:26:24 <frosch123> it's still an integer 10:26:29 <andythenorth> so much apparent boilerplate :) 10:26:42 <andythenorth> nfo was easier, itâs completely not like a modern language 10:27:27 <frosch123> the past was always easier :) 10:28:26 <frosch123> "false memories" or something 10:29:13 <andythenorth> perceived difficulty 10:29:24 <andythenorth> nfo is perceived as âhardâ, so any progress seems good 10:30:00 <frosch123> you would still have built a python layer around it 10:30:04 <frosch123> so what's the difference? 10:31:58 <andythenorth> Iâm not going to build a python layer around C++? o_O 10:33:05 <andythenorth> can C++ functions have optional params? 10:33:08 * andythenorth googles 10:34:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.9] has joined #openttd 10:34:50 <_dp_> some params can have default values 10:35:11 <_dp_> also you can overload function 10:35:15 <Wolf01> o/ 10:35:29 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:36:15 <_johannes> If you've accidently overwritten a savegame, and all autosaves are also not useful, is there any way to get it back? 10:36:48 <frosch123> check your daily backups :p 10:37:17 <_johannes> hmm I have a file with binary "OTTX" recovered with extundelete 10:37:24 <_johannes> however, the OTTX is in the middle of the file 10:38:22 <frosch123> OTTX are the first 4 bytes of an ottd savegame :) 10:38:38 <_johannes> ok, but what are the last bytes? :) 10:39:04 <frosch123> the next four bytes are the savegame version 10:39:18 <Wolf01> if you overwritten it there's really low chance you can recover a file like it was deleted and the memory addresses untouched 10:39:30 <frosch123> after that there repeat: four bytes for chunk name, four bytes for chunk length, chunk data 10:39:35 <frosch123> until 00 00 00 00 chunk 10:39:53 <frosch123> actually, not true 10:40:00 <frosch123> because OTTX is compressed 10:40:17 <frosch123> so, after OTTX and savegame version, you get an xz compressed data stream 10:40:20 * andythenorth has four menu items 10:40:31 <frosch123> no idea whether you can derive the size from that easily 10:40:34 <andythenorth> now I need to expose catenary_flag to the road building commands 10:40:36 <_johannes> :-/ 10:41:07 <andythenorth> do I store the flag in the road construction toolbar somehow, or is it some global? 10:41:13 <_johannes> thanks frosch123 10:41:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: add a variable next to _last_build_roadtype 10:41:59 <frosch123> i.e. _last_build_roadcatenary 10:42:03 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:42:29 <andythenorth> currently I have ShowBuildRoadToolbar(_last_built_roadtype, catenary_flag); 10:42:31 <andythenorth> which compiles 10:42:36 <frosch123> that way it is restored when you just click the road toolbar, instead of the dropdown menu 10:43:50 <andythenorth> I am not sure how to pass the flag on from *ShowBuildRoadToolbar 10:43:59 <andythenorth> presumably I just pass it along the function chain? 10:44:17 <frosch123> just follow the roadtype 10:46:16 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:49:20 <_johannes> frosch123: after the xz stream, does anything more follow? 10:49:32 <frosch123> no 10:50:44 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/zpipe.c <- that is a simple tool to decompress a savegame 10:51:03 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/printhunk.c <- that is a simple tool to analyse a uncompressed savegame 10:58:44 <_johannes> frosch123: does the tool somehow help me finding the end of this xz stream? 10:59:22 <_johannes> ah, maybe just printing the file pointer position after the xz_... routine... 11:00:42 <frosch123> well, try to decompress your file starting from the OTTX 11:00:48 <frosch123> and see what comes out of it 11:00:57 <frosch123> if you get an xz error, i have no idea how to proceed 11:01:09 <frosch123> but you can likely check the uncompressed data up to the error 11:01:24 <frosch123> and whether it is a valid savegame usin the printhunk tool 11:07:51 *** ektor [~ektor@231-44-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:08:23 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkyiaogho/2jgh8f/raw 11:09:07 <frosch123> you have two variables named _catenary_flag 11:09:18 <frosch123> the parameter shadows the global variable 11:13:36 <andythenorth> so when I declare bool _catenary_flag 11:13:38 <andythenorth> thatâs global? 11:13:43 <andythenorth> because itâs outside a block? 11:15:13 <andythenorth> ok I have it working 11:15:47 <andythenorth> âbut globals are bad, okâ :P 11:15:56 <andythenorth> ^ the only formal computer science I ever learnt 11:19:06 <frosch123> yeah, ottd is pretty bad :) 11:20:17 <andythenorth> now I just need to fix tunnels and bridges, then tramway is done 11:20:30 <andythenorth> road doesnât know how to draw catenary correctly, so that needs fixed 11:20:36 <_johannes> frosch123: pkgconfig says -llzma should suffice (like you explained in the source), but I get undefined references to inflateEnd() and similar functions... 11:20:39 <_johannes> any idea? 11:21:21 <frosch123> it also contains the zlib compresseion for the OTTZ format 11:21:29 <frosch123> also add -lz 11:21:40 <frosch123> or remove the zlib functions 11:22:30 <_johannes> ah, that worked 11:28:15 <_johannes> zpipe tells my the data was corrupt... 11:28:51 <frosch123> that's kind of expected, the question is how much it spit out before erroring out 11:29:34 <_johannes> oh, indeed, quite a lot... 11:29:58 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d02410e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:30:24 <_johannes> though I can not open the output file with openttd: unexpected end of chunk 11:30:40 <frosch123> try it with the printhunk 11:30:57 <frosch123> as long as the printed chunk names are readable letters the data is fine 11:31:32 <frosch123> when they turn random, you know that you have reached invalid data 11:31:55 <frosch123> then either your restored file is missing data, or data is shuffled in the restored file 11:33:55 <_johannes> printhunk went up to MAP2, printed its bytes size, then returned with code 0 11:34:14 <frosch123> i guess that means you are missing a lot 11:34:22 <frosch123> iirc the MAP is at the start of the savegame 11:34:41 <frosch123> so, at best you can receive the heightmap, but no tracks or vehicles or anything 11:35:20 <_johannes> I have these: GLOG MAP2 MAPH MAPO MAPS MAPT 11:35:40 <_johannes> so this means there's data missing? 11:35:57 <frosch123> a lot 11:36:10 <frosch123> you have no vehicles, no stations, no industries, no settings, no nothnig 11:36:23 <frosch123> you barely have the heightmap data 11:36:25 <_johannes> that's strange, the compressed file had exactly the size that similar savegames (from that map) had 11:36:49 <frosch123> well, i am not sure what printhunk does when the data turns invalid 11:37:08 <frosch123> and you said zpipe terminated as well 11:37:25 <frosch123> so, apparently the data is invalid somewhere early 11:38:42 <_johannes> so extundelete sometimes dumps data that might be overwritten? 11:39:55 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pktjrjt79 <- that's from a random savegame i tried 11:40:22 <frosch123> i have no idea what extundelete does 11:48:58 * andythenorth lost in tunnels + bridges 11:49:05 <andythenorth> I successfully turned catenary off :P 11:49:08 <andythenorth> but canât turn it back on 11:52:23 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/prvlugqkf/tkm5u0/raw 11:52:55 <andythenorth> HasCatenary(ti->tile) seems to be false always 11:53:17 <frosch123> well, you might need a different bit for bridges 11:53:30 <frosch123> also there are many ways to build a bridge 11:53:41 <frosch123> like first build the bridge, then add tram and so on 11:54:02 <argoneus> good morning train friends 11:55:09 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:04:35 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-53-172.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 12:06:10 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-53-172.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:08:03 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:09:23 <_johannes> ok, the missing chunks are probably located in other files that extundelete dumped, but since the content is compressed, there is probably no possibility to find out in which one? 12:10:13 <frosch123> trial and error :) but yeah 12:12:03 <_johannes> if you save a game under a different name then where you loaded the file, there's no "do you really want to overwrite...?" dialogue 12:12:10 <_johannes> shouldn't there be one? 12:12:45 <frosch123> it does not know what game it loaded last 12:12:57 <frosch123> but yes, there is no such check 12:13:02 <_johannes> that could be easily implemented 12:31:14 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E22.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:41 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:16 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:36:31 <Wolf01> \o/ got the dynamic pivot view to work 12:38:00 <Wolf01> and now, some relax 12:38:30 <Wolf01> andythenorth, 42041: what should I build first? A or B model? 12:41:13 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:41:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B2A0.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think trails should not be able to cross normal roads and be mutually incompatible. 13:14:16 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:19:19 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:27:02 <_johannes> wasn't there a function to tell if a TrackDir variable was a real direction? 13:27:18 <_johannes> i.e. not TRACKDIR_BEGIN, TRACKDIR_INVALID or something else? 13:27:50 <frosch123> _BEGIN is always an alias to a valid value 13:28:01 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:28:10 <andythenorth> Wolf01: build neither? o_O 13:28:12 <frosch123> so unless there is a IsTrackDirValid function, you just compare with TRACKDIR_:INVALID 13:28:19 <andythenorth> 42041 has a bad rep for some reason :) 13:28:22 <andythenorth> dunno why 13:28:30 <Wolf01> too many stickers 13:28:45 <_johannes> ah BEGIN = X_NE , ok, did not see this 13:28:49 <_johannes> then it's clear 13:29:01 <andythenorth> also low on functions? 13:29:07 <andythenorth> but eh, itâs a racing truck, whatâs to hate? 13:29:13 <Wolf01> I'm building the B model now 13:29:32 <Wolf01> yes, how many function do you expect for a car/truck? 13:29:43 <Wolf01> steering, fake motor 13:30:01 <Wolf01> the truck has tilting cabin 13:31:21 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 13:31:23 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 13:31:23 <Wolf01> it's a good source for parts, loads of 15 beams 13:31:27 <Wolf01> o/ 13:31:32 <Alberth> hi hi 13:31:58 <Wolf01> also half beams and bent beams 13:36:34 <_johannes> I get negative costs in yapf again, which lead to crashes 13:36:58 <_johannes> is it possible that you can not start a search from some element of tile x trackdir ? 13:38:44 <_johannes> IIRC there was some part of the code where the starting station got a negative value assigned, but I cannot find it anymore... 13:41:07 * andythenorth managed to trigger an assert 13:41:10 <andythenorth> progress 13:41:18 <Alberth> \o/ :) 13:41:50 <andythenorth> I should probably learn how to debug 13:42:03 <andythenorth> or at least print values to console or something 13:42:28 <Alberth> printf("blah %d\n", number); 13:43:03 <andythenorth> ta 13:43:43 <Alberth> in case of real crashes, saving the core dump, and then using the debugger to get the stack-trace can be useful 13:43:50 <Wolf01> "%c", char and "%s", string and so on 13:44:17 <Alberth> as long as your system knows how to dump a corefile :p (mine doesn't currently) 13:44:38 <Alberth> %s isn't terribly useful in c++ :) 13:44:50 <Alberth> almost everything is a number :D 13:44:53 <Wolf01> or you use an IDE with a JIT debugger 13:45:24 <Alberth> run the program from a debugger also works :) 13:45:35 <Alberth> JIT? for C++? 13:45:56 <frosch123> Alberth: since when are you using a kernel that cannot dump corefiles? 13:46:19 <Wolf01> Visual Studio? It seem to be able to attach a debugger even to the real world 13:47:18 <Alberth> frosch123: since they added 'smart' error reporting, where the repot system hijacks core dumps, and then the permission system refuses to let it make a copy for me, as it has no context of the crashed process anymore, or so 13:48:13 <frosch123> ok :) 13:48:44 <Alberth> I should probably upgrade to the next release :) 13:48:51 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:50:01 <Wolf01> whatsapp today is goinf full retard :| 13:50:04 <Wolf01> *going 13:50:50 <Wolf01> I need to keep the smartphone on with the app running foreground, because the web client looses the connection otherwise 13:51:38 <Alberth> seriously, your world doesn't need to be bigger than whatsapp 13:52:05 <Alberth> it's bad enough that you leave without notice for food, shopping, and sleeping 13:52:58 <supermop> yo 13:53:05 <Alberth> hi hi 13:54:37 <Wolf01> o/ 13:55:02 <andythenorth> are most of the messages here? â-> shopsâ ? 13:56:16 <andythenorth> also, newgrf landscape generator plugin? o_O :P 13:59:58 <Wolf01> a what? 14:05:35 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:37 <Alberth> squirrel landscape generator might be doable 14:20:13 <Alberth> although the better solution is likely an open file format, and an external program 14:21:34 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:56:18 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:01:20 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip4-83-240-28-102.cust.nbox.cz] has joined #openttd 15:09:12 <KouDy> exit 15:09:44 <Alberth> almost :) 15:19:19 <andythenorth> do I need to set the catenary bit on the tile for every case (plain road, station, tunnel, etc)? 15:19:37 * andythenorth tried sticking it after all the cases, but might not work 15:27:53 <andythenorth> oh, tunnelbridge is a different tile type to road? o_O 15:31:50 <Alberth> every tile type that must have a catenary, must have a bit 15:32:08 <andythenorth> ok so I need to extend *_map.h for all those types 15:32:22 <Alberth> and yeah, tunnelbridges != normal road, since bridges don't exist :) 15:33:22 <Alberth> you may have to find a place for the bit for each tile type separately 15:33:46 <Alberth> don't know how much of that is aligned between different tile types 15:35:00 <frosch123> http://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/raw-file/a5407c556114/docs/landscape_grid.html 15:35:46 <andythenorth> I picked m1 7 because it looked clear for the cases I need 15:39:42 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5b0e3.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 15:45:08 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:48:59 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:02:42 <supermop> is there a practical reason to buy a font in ttf vs otf? 16:05:23 <Alberth> http://superuser.com/questions/96390/difference-between-otf-open-type-or-ttf-true-type-font-formats ? 16:05:41 <Alberth> ha, even the site matches with your nick :p 16:09:18 * andythenorth -> food, shopping, sleeping 16:09:22 <andythenorth> bye 16:09:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 16:23:35 <_johannes> can someone please help me with YAPF? 16:23:53 <_johannes> I have really no clue where the negative costs come from 16:24:09 <_johannes> Where are the costs initialized to the nodes? 16:26:34 <Alberth> add assert(cost >= 0); somewhere, wait for the crash, then analyze the stack trace 16:26:58 *** Taco [~kitty@2402:9e80:1::1:9a37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:48 <_johannes> the question is: where :P 16:29:28 <Alberth> I'd say as soon as you compute cost 16:30:13 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:30:19 <Alberth> maybe even do that for both the running total and the estimate too 16:31:08 <_johannes> ah maybe I could set a watchpoint... 16:31:19 <Alberth> that might work too 16:31:36 <Alberth> I don't use debuggers very much :p 16:35:36 <Alberth> not sure how much that helps though, A* code generally doesn't make much sense without pretty 2d-ish picture 16:37:14 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:37:50 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:06:06 *** Taco [~kitty@2402:9e80:1::1:9a37] has joined #openttd 17:36:13 <supermop> not sure how to think about a place near the office with a lunch special that involves a pint of anything on draft 17:36:57 <supermop> i mean i of course had the beer, but seems a half pint would be more appropriate for a lunch break 17:39:03 <Alberth> ask V :) 17:43:16 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:05 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:46:00 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 17:46:37 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 17:50:08 <supermop> still need an iconographic, monochromatic base set that can run in the background at work without looking too obvious 18:00:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 18:02:47 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:05:02 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 18:21:00 <V453000> so who read friday farts yet? 18:46:14 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 18:49:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6B795.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:55:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B2A0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:49:43 <argoneus> V453000: I did 19:49:45 <argoneus> can I get a cookie 19:50:21 <V453000> is train cookie enough? 19:50:40 <argoneus> how much horsepower 19:56:12 <Wolf01> "Redo of the train graphics and fixing the train distances, so they are whole tiles and vertical and horizontal distances are the same." this looks a lot of work for V 19:56:29 <Wolf01> *+like somewhere 19:57:22 <Wolf01> nooo the spidertron has been postponed :( 19:58:40 <Wolf01> also... jobs... too bad I'm focused on PHP and C# now 20:04:50 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:22:46 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> synthon.oftc.net quits: Extrems, ConductorCat, Xaroth, @orudge, ABCRic, davidstrauss, ST2, blathijs, NGC3982, Arveen, (+26 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 20:35:27 *** Netsplit over, joins: Mazur, dustinm`, Kurimus, efess, OsteHovel, guru3, Extrems, funnel, SWAT, strohalm (+4 more) 20:35:41 *** Netsplit over, joins: Sacro, Arveen, +tokai, ConductorCat, urdh, ccfreak2k, Xaroth 20:35:56 *** Netsplit over, joins: @orudge, Snail, Tharbakim, Eearslya, NGC3982, greeter, blathijs, davidstrauss, luca768, ABCRic (+3 more) 20:36:12 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 20:39:23 <sim-al2> ^Netsplit city here 20:42:31 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@50.37.115.175] has joined #openttd 20:45:27 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:28 <supermop> would a vehicle with 0hp still accelerate on slopes? 20:57:17 <sim-al2> I think there's a minimum speed vehicles will do, like 2km/h 20:57:55 <Alberth> 1km/h, but yeah, not 0 :) 20:58:08 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:58:15 <supermop> but if it started at 2kmh, then went down 4 slopes, would it gain speed? 20:58:36 <Alberth> up to speed limit, afaik 20:58:41 <supermop> ok 20:59:13 <Alberth> point is mostly that you must be able to bring any engine into a depot at all times 20:59:42 <Alberth> and since you can't tow, it must run on its own :) 20:59:50 <supermop> could it be made impossible for vehicle to travel uphil? 20:59:52 <sim-al2> Of course, if the vehicle is going 1km/h, it can take a while :) 21:00:09 <sim-al2> (especially if a train stalls out going up hill) 21:00:24 <Alberth> yep, I have had that even with normal engines 21:00:43 <supermop> ok so s/vehicle/log 21:00:47 <Alberth> too long train, and too heavy, breakdown in the middle of the hill :) 21:01:26 <supermop> can hp change on load % 21:01:31 <Alberth> I don't think you can prevent it going up, other than by powerless or so 21:02:15 <supermop> so unloaded 'log' has 10,000 hp and log with load >0% has 0 hp 21:02:16 <Alberth> don't know, but I wouldn't expect it 21:02:45 <Alberth> isn't that what xussrset caused desync with? 21:03:05 <supermop> so log can slide down a flume but return invisibly to top of flume to pick up another "log" 21:05:13 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:12:39 *** yorick_ [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:24:51 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_park 21:31:06 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:40:22 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 21:53:53 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 22:29:23 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2001:8a0:ed44:5b01:1a67:b0ff:fe91:1823] has joined #openttd 22:33:31 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:47:00 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 22:47:02 <drac_boy> hi 22:47:17 <sim-al2> hi 22:47:24 <drac_boy> heh how doing? 22:47:33 <sim-al2> I'm good 22:47:54 <drac_boy> doing ok here..just sorting a lot of images tho :-s 22:48:04 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:23 <drac_boy> btw if you don't mind the earlier subject heres something else I found while looking up a little more ... that strange BR 10100 multi-engines locomotive actually ran well for a while but eventually some major mechanical blowouts failed it for good 22:54:42 <drac_boy> I still think that big flat exposed radiator gives it a bit of an odd look :) 22:54:59 <drac_boy> http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/erm-10100-millers-dale.jpg this a good photo of that 22:55:01 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-197-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:57:16 <drac_boy> at least it was a 'good' one-off .. compared to eg the NH 'train-x' lightweight set having a major fire problem on its press run (why is that never a good sign anyway?) and apparently didn't even last much normal service at all 22:59:24 <drac_boy> oh or there of course is that previous mention of santa fe 'BEEP' rebuild locomotive that was an one-off too but lasted a very long time 23:01:58 <drac_boy> anyway never mind all of that. what you doing beside irc? :) 23:04:34 <sim-al2> Just little household things, feed the dog, etc 23:05:02 <sim-al2> Yeah, apparently the radiator on those things was do to the very high heat output of the transmission 23:08:14 <drac_boy> if you want a nice example of big cores just look up the GT3 23:08:32 <drac_boy> most of its front was radiator .. and even had to sport some side vents of some sort too 23:09:13 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-173-67-246-148.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:09:19 <drac_boy> tbh it almost looks like a coach carriage vestibule pointing forward if you get me 23:13:42 <sim-al2> Yeah I see what you mean. Those trays along the side are for the starting batteries, complete with vents to allow gases to escape 23:15:07 <sim-al2> The detail drawings say that the large grilles actually house the air intake filters, and not radiators 23:15:29 <sim-al2> Turbines don't really need large radiators, except for oil cooling 23:16:02 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-173-67-246-148.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:06 <sim-al2> The center of the locomotive housed a large heat exchanger from the exhaust gases to the intake 23:17:40 <drac_boy> oh while we're at uk's short period of unusual locomotives, can I point you to http://www.bulleidboard.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/misc/36001_stn_w4.jpg .. looks like a diesel locomotive but has extra-thick chassis umm aside to that it smokes a lot anyway :) 23:18:25 <sim-al2> Apparently they fit through regular carriage washers. Rather bad conditions for the fireman though 23:18:42 <drac_boy> it was one of these "attempt to be easy for a basic engineer to handle" steam power .. but of course BR wanted nothing to do with steam still 23:18:55 <sim-al2> Not much room for fuel either 23:20:52 <sim-al2> The cab reminds me of a Southern Pacific cab-forward 23:21:10 <drac_boy> well, it would seem one end had nothing but fuel bunker tho .. the actual locomotive was almost only half length 23:21:43 <sim-al2> Except those had the advantage of being oil-fired, so the fireman wasn't in a poor position like earlier cab-forward attempts 23:22:18 <sim-al2> I think these had an offset firebox and boiler too, so that there could be a walkway through 23:22:53 <drac_boy> heh well some uk locomotives did run backward on slower lines but the issue was if the tender was a large one re restricted visibility .. and if it was coal (as usual at the time) talk about coaldust getting into your face too 23:23:12 <drac_boy> best to leave these kind of pulls to a tank locomotive 23:27:35 <drac_boy> ah and about non-steam looking steam .. its not quite uk but ireland had this http://www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_oth/cc1_itb.aspx always actually found that one interesting 23:29:38 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:9962:e260:3821:42e5] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:05 <sim-al2> Looks almost like a Garrett but with a tender front-end 23:34:54 <drac_boy> if it was a garratt that would had been a 2-4-0+0-4-2, maybe not a well known type anyhow (compared to 0-4-0+0-4-0) 23:34:57 <drac_boy> :) 23:38:23 <sim-al2> I know, just the cab-shape and unusual front end 23:38:42 <sim-al2> But a Garrett would look longer, while this looks more like a brick 23:39:22 <sim-al2> Hmm, peat as fuel too... that must have an interesting smell 23:40:02 <drac_boy> well there is one garratt that had a strange attempt at being streamlined http://www.wegmuller.org/gallery/var/resizes/Large-Scale-Models/Streamlined-Garratt/L%20rear%201.jpg?m=1421337862 23:40:34 <drac_boy> note the use of double elephant ears, one is on the water tender body instead while other one is in a more normal position by the stack 23:40:54 <sim-al2> I think the designer spent a lot of time looking at this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/MILW_Bi-Polar.jpg 23:44:04 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:4c0f:d4cc:599:1732] has joined #openttd 23:44:08 <drac_boy> btw if you want "interesting smell" .. take a guess which amtrak trainset had a smokey kind of french fries smell coming from the roof at both motor ends? :) 23:45:21 <sim-al2> Did they run the turbines on biodiesel at some point? 23:45:42 <drac_boy> http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0/3/7/5037.1185339600.jpg some people at crossing said these smell like fries apparently 23:47:10 <sim-al2> I suppose they were desperate to reduce fuel costs... 23:47:14 <Wolf01> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/03/25/2017200/wrecking-crew-demolishes-wrong-housing-duplex-following-google-maps-error heh... they misclicked on the tile with the dynamite tool? 23:48:10 <sim-al2> ^Yeah, apparently the contractor was rather dismissive of the owner too, just telling her that insurance would help and to prepare for a long legal battle 23:48:20 <drac_boy> well if they didn't like the fuel cost, why not just gut the locomotive shell and either put in diesel power or rather turn the body into baggage/HEP ends to haul with a conventional locomotive instead 23:48:34 <drac_boy> but no apparently they simply sidelined them till they rusted quite a bit 23:48:49 <sim-al2> These designs had some issues 23:49:07 <sim-al2> I think they were already starting to rust by the time they were suppsoed to be replaced 23:49:21 <Wolf01> btw, night all 23:49:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:49:44 <sim-al2> And their replacements were far more unreliable, with air conditioning problems and all kinds of build-quality issues 23:49:44 <drac_boy> heck even the Talgo trainset in west usa (I forgot which state they run in) used to be a design that didn't have any FRA-sane pushpull mode but now they already have a "cabbage" kind of cab car at one end to make an effective pushpull set 23:50:18 <sim-al2> So much so that Amtrak effectively refused to operate them, and starting using regular locomotive-hauled sets instead 23:50:32 <drac_boy> heres one of these http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/5/4/7854.1394927271.jpg 23:50:51 <sim-al2> New York state has been mad at Amtrak for years because of that, but apparently the state didn't want to pay for the fixes either 23:50:53 <drac_boy> as I recall the large cab/windshield was due to mockup testings for trackside visibility among other things 23:51:31 <sim-al2> I think that might be needed because of the size of the nose and the raised position 23:51:36 <sim-al2> *driver's position 23:52:08 <sim-al2> The top is probably part of the collision structure too, in case of overturning 23:52:41 <sim-al2> It's pretty ugly tbh, but it replaces the large ex-locomotive that had to be dragged around 23:52:52 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:53:11 <sim-al2> Painting the nose a bit differently would help 23:53:21 <drac_boy> and about NY .. well I imagine its one of these "if you don't like it then pay to get it out" catch-22 .. and amtrak not getting any payment from NY gives us a simple answer to that? :) 23:55:13 <drac_boy> btw the cabbage units amtrak used on other trains weren't that heavy at all when compared to the coach behind them...especially if you had sealed up the fuel tank empty in first place 23:56:13 <sim-al2> It's an ex-F40PH, dragging around a 260,000 lb unit for collision purposes only 23:56:41 <sim-al2> Soley because the first generation Talgos weren't collision-rated here 23:56:48 <drac_boy> one of their issue naturally was the high floor for baggage loading ... but to change that meant spending money modifying things (rather than just simply gut it and stop the budget at that) 23:57:50 <sim-al2> Well, the frame makes it hard too, because the floor of the engine room is right on the top of the frame, and the engine's crankcase has a small well in the middle 23:58:16 <sim-al2> The coaches are pretty light, not more than 110,000 lbs 23:59:10 <sim-al2> The new coaches that Amtrak and others are ordering will also be around that weight, but with full collision rating, even the cabcars 23:59:58 <sim-al2> Dragging around a weight like that for no reason definetly hurts fuel economy