Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6DA3A.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:15 *** FLHerne_ [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 01:00:12 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 01:49:46 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1973 01:49:48 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:53:44 *** Guest1973 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:02:31 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:30:08 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:22:15 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 03:52:18 *** MonkeyDrone [~MonkDAce@80.88.255.44] has joined #openttd 04:44:35 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:5f6:6f8b:7e35:7320] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:00:20 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:31:47 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:22 <V453000> when downloading shit from bananas, does bananas automatically zip the thing and then unzip it at the destination, or are .grf files sent directly? 06:56:23 <Supercheese> pretty sure it's the bundles that are sent 06:56:40 <Supercheese> not sure whether the .tar is sent directly or if it's unzipped though 07:04:53 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 07:04:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:05:05 <Alberth> moin 07:07:29 <V453000> hi Alberth 07:07:42 <V453000> because the zip/tar should be smaller than the grf 07:07:55 <V453000> (s/should/is) 07:08:13 <Supercheese> .zip should, dunno about raw .tar though 07:08:17 <Alberth> likely, but theoretically not always true 07:08:33 <Alberth> plain .tar does no compression at all 07:08:44 <Supercheese> yeah didn't think so 07:08:49 <V453000> oh 07:08:50 <V453000> ok 07:08:51 <V453000> :d 07:08:57 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@cE6A03E56.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:08:57 <Supercheese> have to .gz it 07:09:01 <Supercheese> or whatnot 07:09:12 <Alberth> it originates from "tape archive", ie a format to serialize directory structure into a sequential format to stream to tape 07:09:59 <Alberth> and since tapes are not 100% reliable, you don't want compression, since any bit error breaks the entire archive then 07:10:26 <Alberth> also, extracting a single file becomes a PITA :) 07:10:55 <Alberth> and in those days, tapes were waaaaay bigger than disks, who cares about compression :p 07:59:46 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:52 <planetmaker> moin 08:05:54 <Alberth> hi hi 08:28:06 <monsted> Alberth: IBM 3592 Gen5 is 10 TB, so they still have an edge on capacity :) 08:28:36 <monsted> Oracle T10000D is "only" 8.5 TB 08:28:39 <Alberth> haha, fair enough :) 08:29:41 <monsted> also, nearly all tapes are typically compressed, they just do it in the drive instead of in software. 08:30:32 <monsted> sauce: i built our second StorageTek Powderhorn tape library and ran storage and backup for years :) 08:31:51 <monsted> and now i have 11,000 tapes to destroy, with an impressive capacity of 40 GB each. 08:31:57 <Alberth> at those sizes, compression makes sense :) 08:32:11 <Alberth> they also add error detection and correct data, I guess 08:33:03 <monsted> yes, and magnetic tape is some of the best archival grade media available. shelf life for a written tape is usually somewhere in the 50 year region. 08:34:31 <Alberth> in proper conditioned rooms :) 08:34:57 <Alberth> but indeed, I pulled data from a tape that was around a decade old without problems at all 08:35:40 <Alberth> and those were simply stored in a box in a closet in my room 08:35:42 <monsted> they have pretty good environmental specs, as long as it's not too humid. 08:36:11 <Alberth> just keep magnets away from them :p 08:36:14 <monsted> our cooling failed one summer and when i went to check things out, i left wet fingerprints on everything i touched. humidity was 100% :( 08:36:32 <Alberth> :( 08:38:56 <monsted> we're scrapping those libraries after 15 years of service. a bit of a sad day, especially because they've been replaced with much lower quality quantum libraries. these things were built using parts off boeing planes, because they stole a bunch of engineers from the 747 program. 08:51:58 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08e913.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 09:12:01 *** empezar [~empezar@81-231-64-84-no193.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 09:20:08 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:20:22 <Wolf01> o/ 09:21:11 <Alberth> moin 09:21:27 <empezar> hello 09:31:52 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:29:55 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:31:42 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 10:31:48 <Samu> hi 10:48:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 10:49:41 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:806f:2cd1:bd0:aa48] has joined #openttd 11:00:29 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 11:02:24 *** Samu_ [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 11:04:21 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:16 <Samu_> i'm doing a retard test 11:08:00 <Samu_> i'm hosting a server and then trying to join it with 255 local clients 11:08:13 <Samu_> only 64 can enter 11:08:24 <Samu_> is this a limitation of windows or openttd? 11:09:59 <Samu_> https://www.openttd.org/en/servers - keks 11:11:32 <Samu_> The server didn't answer the request 11:11:35 <Samu_> is what it says 11:13:54 <Rubidium> there isn't a technical limit in openttd, but I'm finding a lot of evidence on the internet that different versions of Windows have different limits on concurrent incoming connections 11:17:16 *** ricus [~ricus@chunli.enric.me] has quit [Quit: 'Til next time!] 11:17:54 <Samu_> hmm interesting 11:26:30 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 11:26:49 <Samu> bah, not enough memory to start that many openttds 11:26:53 <Samu> need moar ram 11:27:46 <Samu> i started a second server, while leaving the first one open with 64 clients in 11:28:13 <Samu> about 20 more clients were able to join the 2nd server 11:28:27 <Samu> then windows complains about mem 11:28:36 <Samu> and boom, black screen, had to restart 11:28:59 <Samu> 64 + ~20 = ~84 local 11:29:49 <Samu> server 1 was using 3979, server 2 was using 3980 11:30:01 *** Samu_ [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:30:30 <Samu> hmm so what can be concluded with these tests? 11:31:13 <Wolf01> that you should start on fixing windows' limits instead of ottd? 11:32:24 <Samu> 64 for each port 11:44:59 <Samu> windows license says 20 11:45:14 <Samu> why did it allow 64 + ~20 11:45:28 <Samu> meh, doesn't matter, 64 is a good number 12:03:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 12:03:34 <Alberth> o/ 12:04:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:04:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 12:05:06 <Wolf01> o/ 12:05:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [] 12:09:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 12:10:45 * andythenorth trying to figure out FIRS bug 12:10:54 <andythenorth> bauxite from oil rigs 12:11:53 <Alberth> ha, indeed, interesting bug 12:14:01 * andythenorth is getting bored of these :) 12:15:57 <Samu> okay today is the day 12:16:22 <Samu> how do i make flag bitmasks tables thing? 12:17:48 <Samu> the table is ready: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74694 12:18:15 <Samu> http://i.imgur.com/lGvvQOK.png 12:19:10 <Samu> want to use these flags instead of using bools 12:21:20 <Samu> i don't know how to ask :( 12:22:39 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:23:28 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm a nerd and made up my own train coding system to name my trains 12:24:36 <Alberth> quite likely you're not the first person doing that :) 12:25:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> It's just a simple 4-block thing separated by dashes 12:26:04 <Ethereal_Whisper> For example this one is MF-F-AR-1 12:26:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> 4th block is just the number of the train fulfilling that role 12:27:00 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdsibyans - i was told my bools and checks are ugly and that i could use flags bitmasks. I use them too often throughout the patch, and they are always checking the same things, repeatedly. 12:27:02 <Ethereal_Whisper> First block is station of origin (I just realized I messed up and it should be MFA), second is cargo type, third is destination 12:27:29 <Samu> and to simplify and make it readable, i needed some table 12:27:37 <Samu> i got the table now 12:28:06 <Ethereal_Whisper> MFA-F-AR stands for "de mine de fer Angouleme, fer, a Acerie Rennes" (from Angouleme iron mine, iron, to Rennes steel mill) 12:29:58 <Alberth> If that works for you, great :) 12:29:58 <Alberth> I never bother giving names to things, I just look what their orders are 12:32:19 <Wolf01> I use default names too, until I find that when there are many they mean nothing and is difficult to find what I'm looking for, then I start to rename 300 things 12:32:38 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:14 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i generally give names to groups rather than trains 12:33:22 <andythenorth> âGroup 1â 12:33:29 <Eddi|zuHause> or especially trams 12:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "ATown - Line 1" 12:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> or "ATown-Btown" 12:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or "Cargo ATown-BTown" 12:37:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm also playing in French even though I'm a native English speaker. Lol 12:39:34 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:43:46 <Wolf01> I play in english because I find the italian translations weird 12:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually play in german even if the translation is terrible 12:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "First we didn't put effort into releases, so long as the updater works. Then people shyed away from .0 releases, because they'll be unusable until the first hotfix. and now we're calling the initial release .1" 12:53:44 <Wolf01> makes sense 12:53:51 <andythenorth> sounds familiar :P 13:00:46 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 13:12:58 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:21:04 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:35:18 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:35:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 13:35:25 *** MonkeyDronez [~Monkey@84.255.189.133] has joined #openttd 13:42:19 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:43:39 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 14:04:15 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:06:45 <supermop> yo 14:06:49 <Samu> hi 14:08:59 <supermop> whgats going on this morning 14:09:29 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:15 <Samu> want to do bitmask flags and dont know how to start 14:10:27 <Ethereal_Whisper> Playing Toyland in French for fun 14:10:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> I tried an industry replacer NewGRF, the main popular one; it made my head hurt but it's very, very complex 14:13:28 <supermop> no idea what a bitmask flag is 14:14:32 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@cE6A03E56.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:45 <Samu> enum flag? 14:16:01 <Samu> enum bitmask? 14:16:08 <Samu> :( 14:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "Value range propagation now assumes that the this pointer of C++ member functions is non-null. This eliminates common null pointer checks but also breaks some non-conforming code-bases (such as Qt-5, Chromium, KDevelop)." that sounds fun :p 14:16:38 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 14:17:17 <Alberth> euhm, this pointer is null? what nonsense is that? 14:19:28 <Samu> [13:38] <Wolf01> you could use flags instead of variables, declare an enum and then use if (GB(SLOT_EDITABLE, flags)) or "flags, SLOT_EDITABLE" (I don't remember it now) or even IF (flags & (SLOT_EDITABLE | SLOT_VALID_AI)) 14:19:33 <Samu> halp! :o 14:20:45 <Samu> i have this for guidance http://i.imgur.com/lGvvQOK.png 14:21:13 <Samu> how do i code flags, enums etc 14:21:59 <Alberth> openttd has lots of enums that define flags 14:32:17 <Alberth> look how GB is used 14:35:35 <Ethereal_Whisper> Heh, I forgot how silly the French word for "cotton candy" is 14:35:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> "barbe a papa" which means "father's beard" literally 14:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i would have understood "grandpa's beard" 14:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but "papa"? 14:36:34 <Ethereal_Whisper> ... yeah 14:39:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:44:29 <Samu> oh i used gb before 14:45:35 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 14:51:12 <Alberth> Wolf already mentioned it 14:51:35 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest2025 14:51:36 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 14:57:37 *** Guest2025 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:58:52 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:01:36 <Samu> enum ScriptSlotFlags? 15:01:45 <Samu> need a decent name 15:02:15 <Samu> they are dealing with companies from 1-15 and owner deity 15:02:58 <Samu> and where would this enum be in the code? which file? 15:14:59 <planetmaker> Samu, for Player there's a special type already... 'tPlayer' or similar 15:15:24 <Wolf01> bbl, maybe 15:15:26 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 15:32:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> Lol @ the map being so small I can't even profit 15:34:36 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:37:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1803D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:56:37 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:41 <Alberth> use RVs? :) 16:10:03 <Alberth> or trams, perhaps 16:11:35 <supermop> difficult to lose money with trams 16:23:31 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:24:30 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 16:25:57 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 16:32:28 *** MonkeyDronez [~Monkey@84.255.189.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 17:01:24 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:01:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to lose money with ANYTHING, unless you played with inflation and no progression 17:06:02 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 17:08:24 <Alberth> running costs are the biggest factor :) 17:08:40 <Alberth> perhaps loan at the start 17:09:45 <supermop> how hard is it to write a gs starting from 0 programming understanding in any language? 17:10:32 <supermop> like is it fairly natural language-y and could do it in a couple days, or do i need to learn some basic stuff first? 17:13:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:18:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> no. all programming languages are fairly logic-y, and you need to forget anything about natural languages 17:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> or rather everything 17:44:06 <Alberth> remembering your name and birthday would be useful :p 17:47:31 <Samu> this is complicated 17:48:08 <Alberth> remembering your name and birthday? 17:54:01 *** Zuu [~chatzilla@62.119.166.1] has joined #openttd 17:54:11 <Alberth> o/ zuu 17:54:31 *** Zuu is now known as Guest2046 17:55:01 <Guest2046> Hello 17:56:10 *** Guest2046 [~chatzilla@62.119.166.1] has quit [] 17:57:27 *** Zuu_ [~chatzilla@62.119.166.1] has joined #openttd 17:58:59 <Zuu_> supermop: It really depends on what GS you like to do. If all you want to do is to say hello to each company that joins, then MinimalGS is pretty much ready for you. Just change author, GS short name and its name. 18:01:00 *** Zuu__ [~chatzilla@62.119.166.1] has joined #openttd 18:01:40 <Alberth> soo many zuus :) 18:01:53 <Zuu__> But otherwise, well GS is programming in a language that is not the most forgiving one. No real debugger available other than printing messages to the OpenTTD gs log. 18:02:10 <Zuu__> hehe... I blame the train internet. 18:02:22 <Alberth> good choice :) 18:02:30 <Alberth> highly on topic :p 18:02:39 <Zuu__> Yeah 18:07:01 *** Zuu_ [~chatzilla@62.119.166.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:01 <Zuu__> So if you like to learn programming a GS and start from 0, there are better languages/environments than OpenTTD+squirrel 2.0 to learn programming. But if GS is your motivation, it is not impossible to go this track. And motivation is something you'll need. :-) 18:08:52 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 18:12:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:12:12 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 18:17:56 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08e913.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:21:05 <Samu> what is the bit operator that makes 1 ^ 0 = 0 18:21:13 <Samu> is it the ^, that is? 18:21:45 <Samu> ah, it's the $ 18:21:51 <Samu> crap, & 18:23:19 <supermop> Zuu__: just want a gs that bulldozes, buys land, and gifts land to player 18:23:44 <Samu> 10 & 11 = 10 18:24:05 <Samu> 0000 0010 & 0000 0011 = 0000 0010 18:24:38 <Alberth> that's not 10 (decimal) :) 18:24:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B561.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:25:38 <Samu> it's the & operator I was looking for 18:25:42 <Samu> ty 18:25:56 <supermop> Zuu__: or just one that relocates demolished houses? 18:27:17 <Zuu__> A problem you'll have is to know what buildings that get destroyed. 18:27:21 <Samu> in decimal i'm doing 2 & 3 = 2 18:27:27 <Samu> and it's working 18:28:31 <Zuu__> And if you want to build exactly the same building at a different spot, that is also hard-ish (requires patching openttd) 18:28:51 <Zuu__> Here you can read the GS api: http://nogo.openttd.org/ 18:29:37 <Zuu__> Basically a GS is a script in Squirrel 2.0 language. It can order OpenTTD to do things. And the link shows what commands/orders it can send to OpenTTD. 18:29:42 <supermop> Zuu__: could simply be build any 4 houses for any 4 destroyed 18:30:21 <Zuu__> GS can click on the 'fund new buildings' button and/or control growth rate. 18:30:34 <supermop> or note town population before bulldozing, then afterwards try to build new houses to match the old population 18:31:25 <Zuu__> Is the GS the one bulldozing or is it others that bulldoze? 18:32:05 <supermop> gs 18:32:16 <Zuu__> That makes things a lot easier :-) 18:32:53 <Samu> I have this so far SCRIPTSLOT_AI_STARTED = 2, SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED = 3 18:32:56 <Zuu__> Or you would need to monitor map to see when building disappears which isn't doable for script performance reasons. 18:33:13 <Samu> if i want to retrieve a script that started regardless if it's AI or GS, what is the operator that I use? 18:33:26 <Samu> & or | ? 18:36:40 <Samu> SCRIPTSLOT_SCRIPT_STARTED = SCRIPTSLOT_AI_STARTED & SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED 18:37:01 <Samu> SCRIPTSLOT_SCRIPT_ = SCRIPTSLOT_AI_STARTED | SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED 18:37:08 <Samu> bah im confused 18:37:21 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6c842.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 18:37:48 <supermop> are reverse subsidies possible? 18:38:36 <supermop> say, for the the next 10 years all deliveries to x pay 1/2 rate? 18:39:38 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p65cplx9w 18:39:43 <Samu> is this enum correct? 18:40:05 <Alberth> supermop: you don't have access to the precise amount of payment 18:40:33 <Alberth> reward bee assigns a fixed amount of money on a completed goal 18:42:28 <Samu> i hate math 18:42:42 <Samu> this isn't even math, but it's so similar 18:43:52 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 18:44:21 <Samu> here's what I have in mind, 0 - slot is orange, 1 - slot is silver, 2 and 3 - slot is either green or red 18:44:41 <andythenorth> o/ 18:44:45 <Samu> next i check if they have the script dead or not dead 18:44:52 <Samu> and they get their color 18:45:07 <andythenorth> supermop: could assign a penalty deduction for some routes 18:45:10 <supermop> yo andythenorth 18:45:11 <andythenorth> bit weird 18:45:15 <andythenorth> but eh 18:45:53 <Samu> dead is red, green is not dead 18:46:19 <Samu> but there can be combinations :( AI dead, GS dead, AI not dead, GS not dead 18:46:54 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:48:00 <supermop> thinking of a gs that simulates eminent domain sort of 18:49:08 <Samu> hmm 18:49:17 <supermop> if you get a ways along in game and some unserved town has gotten (or started out as) fairly large/sprawling 18:49:50 <supermop> it is a pain to carve even a little bit into that town to build a station 18:50:29 <andythenorth> had that in my last game 18:50:33 <andythenorth> station walking :P 18:50:37 <andythenorth> solves all ills 18:50:39 <supermop> and big towns look odd left neglected or with stations too far out of town 18:51:38 <supermop> but could be fun for that desperate for service town to 'give' a little corridor of right of way or easement to a company 18:53:11 <supermop> but maybe the company in question receiving this boon pays for it either with royalty on their revenues in that town, or by up front lump sum 18:53:23 <supermop> public-private partnerships and all that 18:54:29 <supermop> other option is an AI that does the dirty work then sells itself to a player 18:58:56 *** Zuu__ [~chatzilla@62.119.166.1] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 45.0.2/20160407164938]] 19:00:41 <Alberth> doesn't make a lot of difference in terms of code that you write, I think 19:00:57 <Samu> it's the | isn't it? 19:01:33 <Alberth> \ | / - \ | / - \ | / ! 19:02:26 <Alberth> rotating | doesn't look good :( 19:02:42 <Samu> eh, i'm not entirely sure of what I'm doing 19:03:30 <Alberth> glad you notice it :) 19:05:49 <Samu> there's something wrong with this 19:07:12 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/px2mrnq7q 19:07:13 <Alberth> generally you start with naming the individual bits, and then composing them 19:07:25 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:08:24 <Alberth> SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED is not a bit 19:08:48 <Alberth> also abbreviate SCRIPTSLOT to just SST 19:09:06 <Alberth> any any other 2 or 3 letters 19:09:10 <Alberth> *or 19:11:23 <Samu> how can i distinguish a GS from the other 3? 19:12:42 <Alberth> give it its own bit? 19:13:12 <Alberth> checking it's not one of the others? 19:34:04 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:37 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:40:19 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 19:42:17 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 20:00:24 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you don't carve out stuff of the town. you build the station at the outskirts and provide a tram/bus service into the city 20:04:31 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: thats one way to do it, and the way most favoured by the game as is 20:08:07 <andythenorth> only with cdist mind 20:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the other way is to just attach bus stops to the station to increase coverage area 20:08:37 *** empezar [~empezar@81-231-64-84-no193.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if you also attach an airport, you need fewer bus stops to cover the whole town :p 20:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (as each bus stop will take on the coverage area of the train station/airport if it's attached) 20:10:12 <andythenorth> ha 20:10:16 * andythenorth forgot that 20:10:22 <andythenorth> stations are bizarre :) 20:11:10 <frosch123> [22:03] <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you don't carve out stuff of the town. you build the station at the outskirts and provide a tram/bus service into the city <- have you been to stuttgart? 20:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i know of :p 20:11:46 <supermop> still think it would be fun to have provisions for more central metro or commuter lines at times without an agonizing multi-decade piecemeal buying process 20:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but in the later stages of the game you can easily do that, as service through busses will quickly replenish your town reputation 20:12:47 <supermop> in a way that has some kind of game mechanism beyond cheat/bribe/cut and replant acres of forests 20:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the tree cheat could easily be disabled: disallow cutting trees if reputation < x 20:13:59 <supermop> something like "town desperate for better train service offers you an easement direct to some neighborhood" 20:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> where x is larger than the reputation needed to allow building a station/bus stop 20:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: that could be useful, if in return there is a penalty if you fail to offer the service 20:14:39 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: you may end up with many villages you can never repent to then 20:14:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: building a station likely involves cutting trees 20:14:48 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: exactly 20:15:09 <supermop> trade offs in some some manner of incentives/penalties provided by GS 20:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, it should be combined with other measures, like preventing the whole map be covered with trees 20:16:45 <frosch123> ah, i guess it needs a statemachine for growing trees 20:16:45 <supermop> we give you this prime station location, but in return we want a minimum of x amount of service, or we give you this land, but you must pay us x lump sum, or y per year over 10 years, or z percent of revenues in our town 20:17:55 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: there is also the problem that much of the map isn't owned by any entity so, you end up with a region full of wilderness and towns fierce to protect it 20:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: no, there's a range where towns just don't care 20:18:38 <andythenorth> late-game demolish and build isnât blocked by rating 20:18:42 <andythenorth> itâs blocked by roads 20:18:58 <andythenorth> physically impossible to build much without magic bulldozer cheat 20:19:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't see what you mean 20:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> never had the need for magic bulldozer 20:19:40 * andythenorth finds picture 20:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and in the situations where i would have used it, it was about industries 20:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: do you mean roads built by AI? 20:20:20 <andythenorth> I mean town-owned roads 20:20:30 <supermop> but that's even more odd, that all the pristine forests that would be a great national park you may destroy with impunity, yet some suburban prairie that you yourself covered in non native trees is passionately guarded 20:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you can remove town roads with rating 20:21:01 <andythenorth> you canât remove town roads if theyâre connected at all sides 20:21:09 <andythenorth> or even 3 sides 20:21:20 <andythenorth> oh 20:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that hasn't been true for like 10 years 20:21:25 <andythenorth> in this game I can :o 20:21:41 <andythenorth> wtf, when did that change? :o 20:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a setting: "allow removing more roads" or somesuch 20:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it was probably removed from gui by now 20:22:17 <andythenorth> no actually it still is true 20:22:29 <andythenorth> I think I just found some road from a dead AI the first time I tried 20:22:32 <andythenorth> or my own road :P 20:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just flip that setting 20:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> might have been called "extra dynamite" at some point 20:23:43 <andythenorth> well thatâs interesting 20:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> extra_dynamite = true 20:24:11 <andythenorth> changes my approach to building in town 20:24:23 <supermop> its odd though, that no farmer cares that i tear out his crops if i pay him a little extra, but no one stops me building on land that is somehow owned by no one at the towns edge, just the city council gets bitter about it 20:24:42 <andythenorth> eh just game mechanic no? :) 20:25:04 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: if that's the only problem you have in this game... :p 20:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the farmer does care, that's why you pay exorbitant amounts of money for the land 20:25:44 <supermop> i think making a trade for a bit of land would be an interesting complement to that mechanic 20:26:16 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: maybe we should pay similarly for land the nearer it is to a town, or something important 20:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch for that... 20:27:13 <supermop> and towns or industries more wanting for service could depress land values around them to approximate a desire to negotiate with you 20:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: or you could write a land owning simulation :p 20:28:14 <supermop> but this is all more complex than what i envisioned 20:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> then you negotiate with nobles and churches who together own 80% of the land 20:28:51 <SpComb^> pretend it's a state railway in a communist land with no private land ownership 20:28:52 <supermop> which was a subsidy GS, where the subsidy was a plot of land 20:29:21 <supermop> SpComb^: that's really the only way to make sense of the game 20:30:57 <andythenorth> hmm 20:31:04 <andythenorth> whatâs this fricking oil rig grf 20:31:20 * andythenorth bored of conflicting newgrf whackamole :| 20:32:25 <supermop> i often come across a certain problem, in that even when i set out to build a simple industrial network first, i find myself driven to build a passenger network serving every town my mineral line passes 20:33:35 <supermop> as if i dont build it first thing in game, those town will despise me for cutting through their trees, and then i can never establish a station their later to recover 20:33:41 <supermop> andythenorth: not your problem 20:34:16 <supermop> people add extra industry grfs at their own risk.discretion 20:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: just put a bus line in each town 20:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> two stops, one bus 20:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> going 5 tiles 20:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> or so 20:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually put 5 stops and make two lines in an X shape, or so 20:37:14 <supermop> then every little village along my coal road grows into a city, and what business does a freight railroad have running a municipal transit district 20:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (and then put my station at one of the X ends) 20:37:19 <supermop> but thats what do 20:37:26 <supermop> what i do 20:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the reasons why i never have a decent freight network :p 20:38:19 <supermop> so every time i set out to try some arctic firs game , by the 5th years i'm too distracted running a regional commuter network 20:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but there should be a cheat that simply ignores town rating (lesser version of magic bulldozer) 20:39:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or add that as an option for town tolerance 20:41:08 <andythenorth> bus in every town 20:41:16 <andythenorth> standard 20:41:19 <andythenorth> or even mail 20:41:25 <andythenorth> cost of playing 20:47:53 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 20:50:22 <supermop> well i still find myself with some 5,000 person city in a corner of the map completely neglected as no freight line had to run by it and its not worth the hassle to connect to my passenger network that has since consumed my time. the town trying to bribe me into servicing it would be interesting 20:52:18 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:28 * andythenorth -> bed 20:53:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 20:59:50 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 21:01:32 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 21:04:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:33:36 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:37:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DAE69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DAE69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:45:55 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@50-37-107-182.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 22:00:53 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6c842.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:01:12 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1803D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:45 <Samu> this enumeration thing is too hard 22:26:50 <Samu> i don't know what I need 22:27:00 <Samu> what needs to be enumerated 22:27:37 <Samu> it looks easy at first, but the more i dwelve into it, the less i know 22:30:31 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbh42bouj 22:31:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B561.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:25 <Samu> hmm :( im doing this wrong, sec, let me edit 22:32:25 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwdejvohy this is better 22:32:53 <Samu> alive scripts are not allowed to edit all parameters 22:32:57 <Samu> i had that wrong 22:34:47 <_dp_> half of your ScriptSlotFlags don't even depend on slot 22:42:16 <Samu> please explain me what I'm doing wrong 22:42:48 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:27 <Samu> i picked those 6 bool checks which are the most commonly used 22:44:01 <Samu> there's a few others like IsEditable, Slot Movable, but they don't depend on a flag of teir own 22:44:08 <_dp_> I don't know what are you trying to do here with those flags, but having in slot flags smth that has nothing to do with slots is clearly wrong 22:44:41 <_dp_> there is _game_mode for checking game mode, why on earth would you put it to every slot flags 22:45:13 <Samu> I ask for that test many times in the bools 22:45:35 <Samu> it's basically in everyone of them 22:45:55 <Samu> i don't really understand what to do 22:46:22 <Samu> have you seen my code with the bools? i was told it was ugly, they were giant lines 22:46:37 <Samu> i thought enums and flags would help make it more readable, or simple 22:47:39 <Samu> there it is https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdsibyans?/pdsibyans - the tests are nearly everywhere, they're almost always giant lines 22:47:53 <Samu> how do i make them readable 22:47:53 <_dp_> so? doing hasflag(flags, SST_GAMEMODE) instead of _game_mode == GM_NORMAL just obscures logic, nothing else 22:51:34 <_dp_> I'd say doing 2-3 functions would help significantly 22:57:20 *** FLHerne_ [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:57:30 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:02:05 *** FLHerne_ [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 23:19:50 <Samu> i have no more time today 23:19:58 <Samu> tomorrow i'll look into this again 23:20:01 <Samu> cyas good night 23:20:09 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:26:05 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@72.1.195.4] has joined #openttd 23:26:07 <drac_boy> hi 23:26:16 <drac_boy> anyone here rather know what a lima shay is locomotives-wise? :) 23:27:15 <Supercheese> geared locomotive 23:27:33 <Supercheese> good for steep gradients/heavy loads 23:27:59 <Supercheese> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shay_locomotive 23:28:14 <Supercheese> way back when they used some on logging railroads around where I live 23:28:24 <Supercheese> way back when,* 23:29:40 <drac_boy> supercheese well in that case how would you like THIS unusual steam-to-diesel conversion? http://www.rypn.org/forums/download/file.php?id=10859 23:30:36 <drac_boy> not sure how they got the diesel's power to the side shaft .. but under the cab you can see what looks like a different-colored gearbox doing that task apparently 23:30:52 <Supercheese> yeah they pulled the expansion cylinders it looks like 23:31:27 <drac_boy> I never thought someone would actually turn a shay chassis into a diesel locomotive but .. there it is 0_0 23:31:52 <Supercheese> and it probably has bestial tractive effort 23:32:03 <Supercheese> although they did lose the tender it seems 23:32:10 <drac_boy> and from the look of the logs just poking into the photo .. its probably working a log line with equally-alike 10-20kph top speed restriction :) 23:33:57 *** gnu_jj [~quassel@ipbcc36ea9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:42 <drac_boy> supercheese also not many of them were photographed but much more numerous were the 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 being turned into mechanical gas or diesel locomotives 23:34:54 <drac_boy> http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/sites/model-railroad-hobbyist.com/files/users/dreesthomas/cfp253.jpg this is quite a strange/ugly looking homemade one heh 23:35:09 <Supercheese> very ugly indeed 23:35:17 <drac_boy> looks like the steps are probably still original :) 23:36:07 <drac_boy> some 0-4-0's (I never quite get it) had a lot of overhangs so they could look a little comical .. so the large space between rear axle and rear buffer beam doesn't surprise me there 23:36:46 <drac_boy> heres one of these with a nice overhang http://www.jeff-z.com/wks/locoroster/2/loco2-12.jpg 23:37:07 <drac_boy> looks like even the firebox may be all the way behind the driver instead of sitting over it even 23:41:10 <Supercheese> as long as the center of gravity is nicely over the axles 23:41:32 <Supercheese> and their cantilevers aren't too problematic 23:42:48 <Supercheese> but steam engines tend to use beefy materials so I doubt they have to worry about excessive bending moments or anything, they can handle it 23:43:08 <drac_boy> well I think it also helps having saddletank which puts a bit more balance over the front :) 23:44:27 <drac_boy> semi-related footnote: the first 'simple' articulated locomotive had a short flue that basically the front drivers were a bit "loose" which explains why they were restricted to low speed or helper services where the instability wasn't going to be as pronounced 23:45:19 *** Pulec [~pulec@78.46.49.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:45:38 <drac_boy> the second design (forgot which railroad but may had been Sealine) corrected this by extending the flues moving the gravity point further forward 23:45:51 *** Pulec [~pulec@2a01:4f8:110:1463:67::2] has joined #openttd 23:46:20 <drac_boy> kinda hard to explain it but heh I guess if you have an articulated locomotive with little weight over the front its probably no surprise if it "shakes" a lot 23:54:41 <drac_boy> supercheese but anyway this aside, how're you doing? 23:56:34 <Supercheese> got a cup of hot coffee, so everything's good 23:57:00 <drac_boy> :)