Log for #openttd on 8th May 2016:
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08:00:33  <Alberth> o/
08:02:41  <andythenorth> o/
08:04:36  <andythenorth> maybe objects should have been station objects? o_O
08:05:47  <Alberth> I'd think newobjects should be generalized to get influenced by surrounding stations, etc
08:06:54  <Alberth> I am sure you also want other things to influence such graphics :p
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08:23:46  <andythenorth> I wondered if the current arrangement is actually the best
08:23:59  <andythenorth> it’s easy enough, once you accept building ‘train’ stations for other transport types
08:24:26  <andythenorth> apart from the window placement, I never find it odd or awkward to use
08:24:41  * andythenorth never uses new objects though
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08:30:44  <Alberth> the advantage of the current setup is that there is no grey area what a station tile is, eg the station buildings that people make is easily categorised as station now
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08:31:48  <andythenorth> I think it’s a good hack
08:31:56  <andythenorth> and ‘fixing’ it is a tidy minds problem
08:33:15  <andythenorth> OTOH, my harbour stations would be nicer if station tiles could build on corner-coasts :P
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08:42:10  <Alberth> silly limitations :p
08:45:21  <andythenorth> inevitable for train tiles afaict :P
08:45:43  <andythenorth> perhaps could be fixed for non-track tiles
08:45:44  <andythenorth> dunno
08:46:48  <Alberth> newgrf should decide that?
08:47:09  <Alberth> maybe it's too much boilerplate for all newgrfs
08:47:37  <andythenorth> there is the need to avoid trains routing themselves up vertical cliffs
08:49:37  <Alberth> would be a major change anyway
08:51:13  <Alberth> he, heated discussion about your station gui patch :)
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09:16:21  <andythenorth> yup
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09:27:46  <Wolf01> moin
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09:34:14  <Wolf01> andythenorth, what do you think?
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10:17:12  <andythenorth> Wolf01: it wants a log in ;)
10:17:24  <andythenorth> login *
10:17:47  <Wolf01> ok then, here the 20MB javascript version :)!37402&authkey=!AL9Grk9RzYs6qiA&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
10:23:08  <andythenorth> nice tank
10:23:51  <Wolf01> it's the voxel version of the 2d one I'm using on my game
10:36:30  <argoneus> good morning train friends
10:36:33  <argoneus> this time actually in the morning
10:36:44  <Wolf01> not here :P
10:36:57  <argoneus> 12:36
10:36:59  <argoneus> cloooose enough.
10:37:20  <Wolf01> morning ends at 12 :)
10:37:43  <argoneus> dammit.
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11:03:43  <Matombo> hi
11:04:01  <Matombo> i'm new to ttd and i have a question ^^
11:04:38  <Matombo> i have a railway set up with 2 power plants at each end and a cole mine between them
11:05:00  <Matombo> i now want a train to load coals drive to 1 power plant load coals again and drive to the other one
11:05:29  <Matombo> but wenn is et this up the train keeps adding "implicit orders" and always drive to the same power plant
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11:07:56  <Alberth> make the order list longer
11:08:37  <Alberth> load coal at mine -> unload at power plant 1 -> load coal at mine -> unload at power plant 2
11:09:14  <Samu> hi
11:09:17  <Alberth> o/
11:09:19  <Samu> i had a headache yesterday
11:09:40  <Samu> i wasn't at all here
11:11:01  <Samu> here's the AIConfig function, the work I've done so far
11:11:07  <debdog> Alberth: mayhap the track to plant 2 is incomplete or some signal issue
11:11:08  <Matombo> well i had done it like that but i keept adding implicit orders to always drive to the same power plant
11:11:16  <Matombo> however if fixed it
11:11:21  <debdog> oops
11:11:27  <debdog> Matombo, I meant
11:11:34  <Samu> I notice I'm starting to repeat code
11:11:35  <Matombo> i changed the order of the orders
11:11:40  <Matombo> now i works as intendet
11:11:45  <Samu> and i was told repeating code is bad
11:11:54  <Matombo> (first klicking on the destination power plant then in the coal mine
11:12:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Matombo: implicit orders do not send the train anywhere, it's just a record of where it actually went (e.g. after a depot visit)
11:13:21  <Samu> 99-103 is repeated then at 126-133
11:14:41  <Samu> ops, 99-106
11:16:42  <Alberth> iirc there is a function for computing max width of a range of numbers
11:16:49  <andythenorth> meh, station tiles all showing same cargo :x
11:16:51  <andythenorth> boring
11:19:42  <Alberth> use a station for each cargo type, then it makes total sense :p
11:20:14  <andythenorth> that is a solution yes
11:22:41  <V453000> andythenorth: if you want an amazing experience for a game with kids, Samorost 3 is insanely good
11:22:51  * andythenorth looks
11:23:23  <andythenorth> unusual art style
11:23:31  <V453000> is fabulous
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11:30:08  <_johannes> Hello, can a few programmers please check this concept?
11:30:11  <Wolf01> meh, I need to make 4 voxels just to animate the threads of the tank if I want to use the rendered version as sprite instead of the voxel itself and render it in 4 directions
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11:39:45  <Alberth> V: wow, great style :)
11:40:02  <Alberth> so much detail things moving around in the background
11:45:48  <Wolf01> fu... the shadow rotates with the model :(
11:49:00  <Samu> which comes first? SetDParam or StringID?
11:49:26  <Samu> 					SetDParam(0, i + 1); 					StringID cid = STR_JUST_INT;
11:49:33  <Samu> or the opposite order?
11:49:47  <Wolf01> V, andy, which angle should I set to the light if the base angle is 50°? Just sum 90° for each rotation?
11:54:19  <Alberth> Samu: DParam is used when you "print" the string, to display, or to char *buffer, or so
11:56:10  <Samu> i need to compute widest_cid, without drawing the string
11:56:19  <V453000> yeah it's super nice Alberth
11:56:41  <Alberth> Samu: getBoundingBox also draws the string
11:57:12  <Alberth> can't get the size without converting to letters, and then to pixels
11:57:36  <Samu> STR_JUST_INT is the string, it needs the numbers
11:57:50  <Samu> else it assumes gigantic numbers
11:58:46  <Samu> i've seen it print company 2 billion
11:58:49  <Samu> before
11:59:46  <Alberth> STR_JUST_INT is just an integer number
12:00:04  <Alberth> which indexes into a string table, taking a parameter
12:00:21  <Alberth> and yes, if you don't set the parameter, you get garbage values
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12:08:27  <andythenorth> Alberth: he’s right though, object window doesn’t have same placement issue
12:11:13  <Wolf01> andythenorth, new version!37403&authkey=!AOZzQs5SLGbzL_o&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
12:11:59  <andythenorth> do you animate it?
12:12:11  <Wolf01> I need to animate the threads
12:12:26  <Wolf01> so I need to make 4 of these
12:13:21  <Wolf01> the original version was top-down, so I only needed 4 sprites
12:14:18  <Wolf01> also, I found I could make a lego version with just one switch, it just puts edges and studs on top of the cubes XD
12:15:08  <andythenorth> ha
12:15:20  <Wolf01> hmm no, no edges, I had the grid enabled
12:16:01  <andythenorth> Iron Horse - Diamonds capacity is stupid
12:16:17  <andythenorth> capacity (t) = capacity (bags)
12:16:33  <andythenorth> tell me a better ratio
12:16:40  <andythenorth> I have code for this already
12:16:56  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause ^ usually knows these things
12:17:36  <Wolf01>!37404&authkey=!AOKiQDLJKYPzmjU&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng <- the lego version
12:17:53  <andythenorth> maybe use mail capacity = diamonds capacity
12:18:02  <andythenorth> Wolf01: that’s quite neat :)
12:20:40  <Alberth> placement issue as in the window is too high? or not attached to the construction bar?
12:21:23  <andythenorth> doesn’t obscure my viewport when opened
12:21:40  <Alberth> it's smaller :p
12:21:44  <andythenorth> locked left also
12:22:32  <Alberth> this is about station tiles that are really objects rather than station tiles eh?
12:23:09  <Alberth> station picker isn't really designed for object-ish tiles, afaik
12:23:13  <andythenorth>
12:24:13  * andythenorth wonders about simply adjusting the position that window is drawn
12:24:41  <Alberth> it gets drawn close to the construction toolbar iirc
12:25:12  <Alberth> not sure if that's hard-coded or just by accident
12:25:39  <Alberth> landscape bar has a toggle for positioning iirc
12:31:32  <Wolf01> does anyone still use the fixed station sizes?
12:31:52  <Alberth> /me raises hand
12:32:45  <Alberth> trivially gets the same sized station everywhere :)
12:41:21  * andythenorth should
12:41:29  <andythenorth> 5x2 everywhere is default
12:41:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i almost never use the drag&drop stations
12:41:56  <Samu> - teach me to make this less repetitive
12:43:09  <Alberth> but could be a drop-down, probably
12:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i sometimes wish for an "8" on the selectable sizes
12:44:42  <Alberth> Samu: make an array with the string number, and loop over it
12:44:59  * andythenorth would want 20x2 for some games :P
12:45:07  <Alberth> :O
12:45:19  <andythenorth> LxW btw :P
12:45:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i think 15 was the highest length i did
12:45:39  <Alberth> how many engines does that have?
12:45:53  <andythenorth> several :P
12:46:02  <andythenorth> only on big maps though with low industry counts
12:46:19  <Alberth> makes sense
12:46:25  <andythenorth> what’s the biggest useful ship?
12:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause> are ships useful?
12:46:42  <andythenorth> Squid has ~1000t, but I almost never use them
12:46:51  <andythenorth> ‘useful’
12:47:14  <Alberth> 1000t seems a nice upper limit then :p
12:47:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, without simultaneous-loading limits at docks, you'd rather go for many small ships instead of few big ones
12:47:35  <andythenorth> exactly
12:47:53  <Eddi|zuHause> my pick for ships is usually that they have the same capacity as the train they're transferring to/from
12:47:57  <Alberth> also looks much better in game
12:48:08  <andythenorth> and FIRS industry production suits more frequent deliveries
12:48:30  <andythenorth> I only use the big ships because they’re there, and I try to use most vehicles at least once in a game
12:48:31  <Alberth> for FIRS max useful capacity is much lower than default industries
12:48:49  <Alberth> maybe not for FIRS2
12:48:50  <andythenorth> I’m not averse to a scaling parameter for larger ships
12:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i think 1000t sounds alright
12:48:55  <andythenorth> log scale or so :P
12:49:07  <Eddi|zuHause> there
12:49:13  <Alberth> a*10^b   :p
12:49:21  <Eddi|zuHause> 's no harm in having a "once in a while" vehicle
12:49:33  <Eddi|zuHause> _someone_ will use it.
12:49:46  <andythenorth> those people can have a parameter
12:49:54  <Alberth> :)
12:49:57  <andythenorth> now I just need a name for a new ship set :P
12:50:07  <andythenorth> Crabs?
12:50:08  <Alberth> what eats squid?
12:50:15  <andythenorth> Killer Whale
12:50:16  <Samu> an array?
12:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> problem with parameter is that you have to set it before the game, when you aren't sure what the map layout will be, and whether you ever want to use ships
12:50:33  <andythenorth> Moby Dick
12:50:50  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: refittable capacity? o_O
12:50:58  <Alberth> moby dick sounds good
12:50:59  <Eddi|zuHause> no
12:51:04  <andythenorth> some single-cargo ships have refittable capacity already
12:51:10  <andythenorth> rubbish for multi-cargo though
12:51:19  <Alberth> moby whale
12:51:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there is absolutely no point in refittable capacity when you can just have more ships
12:51:48  <andythenorth> logically I agree, but I think players feel differently
12:51:56  <Eddi|zuHause> so, need a backronym for MOBY now?
12:52:15  <andythenorth> nah, backronyms are a bit 2008 imho
12:52:24  <andythenorth> feel free though
12:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Many Obsolete Backronyms Y'all
12:53:03  * andythenorth thinks of calling it Ghost Fleet, for no justifiable reason
12:53:33  <Eddi|zuHause> (no idea what i just said)
12:54:00  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think you just wrote the epitaph on backronyms, is all
12:54:54  <andythenorth> oh Ghost Fleet is some apocalyptic military novel
12:54:55  <andythenorth> hmm
12:55:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i've heard of ghost ships before, but a ghost fleet?
12:55:31  <Alberth> riders of the 7 seas
12:56:22  <Eddi|zuHause> which are the "7 seas" anyway?
12:59:41  <andythenorth> Seven Seas is a good name?
13:02:19  <Samu> int _params[3] = { STR_AI_CONFIG_GAMESCRIPT, STR_AI_CONFIG_NONE, STR_AI_CONFIG_AI };
13:02:31  <Samu> i dont know how to make the loop
13:02:42  <Samu> for ( ????
13:05:37  <Samu> :(
13:06:03  <argoneus> loop over what?
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13:09:49  <Samu> param 1 2 and 3
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13:11:00  <Samu> they're not ints?
13:11:03  <Samu> StringID?
13:12:11  <argoneus> what do you mean they're not ints
13:12:27  <argoneus> STR_AI_CONFIG_GAMESCRIPT seems like an enum value
13:12:30  * andythenorth going to reset ship capacity:sprites ratio somewhat
13:12:33  <argoneus> which in C++ iirc is basically int
13:12:49  <argoneus> so you can just loop normally
13:12:59  <andythenorth> reduced capacities compared to Squid = greater variation in sprite sizes
13:12:59  <argoneus> like for (int i = 0; i < 3; ++i) { params[i] ... }
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13:17:56  <argoneus> Samu: does tha help
13:17:58  <argoneus> that even
13:18:37  <Samu> yes, i think so, will try
13:19:04  <andythenorth> smaller capacity = higher chance of using the larger ships in game
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13:24:10  <Alberth> makes sense
13:25:42  <andythenorth> Neptune? o_O
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13:33:01  <Samu> yup it works
13:33:10  <argoneus> enums are literally integers
13:33:13  <argoneus> in C++
13:33:29  <argoneus> well
13:33:32  <argoneus> integers or any other type you want
13:33:44  <argoneus> integral type that is
13:34:00  <Alberth> not entirely, they get silently converted to plain integers
13:34:10  <argoneus> tricky
13:34:20  <Samu>
13:35:34  <Alberth> change  can be eliminated, you use it only one time
13:35:52  <Samu> ok
13:36:33  <Alberth> StringID _param[]    <--   _ prefix is only for global variables, this is not global, since it's defined inside a { .. } scope
13:36:51  <Alberth> also, make it static const to avoid computing it more than once
13:37:06  <Samu> static const, ok
13:37:13  <Alberth> "3" is a magic constant, use lengthof(_params)
13:38:24  <Alberth> and no space after { and space before } at line 4
13:38:53  <Samu> that was visual studio who put them :(
13:39:15  <Alberth> no doubt it has a setting to change that
13:39:58  <Samu> new revision
13:40:00  <Alberth> if it hasn't the thing is just broken
13:40:58  <Alberth> param   <--  missed that the first time, but make this "params" as it is a container with multiple things in it
13:41:09  <Samu> ah, ok sorry
13:41:14  <Samu> it was actually params first
13:41:15  <Alberth> ie use singular form for sinugular things :)
13:41:21  <andythenorth> eh, 2 generations of ships enough?
13:41:31  <andythenorth> 1880-1940, 1940->endgame
13:41:33  <andythenorth> or so
13:41:35  <Samu> done
13:42:02  <Alberth> first 60 years, and then 110?  :p
13:42:11  * andythenorth rethinks
13:42:27  <Alberth> well, depends on how long a game is, of course
13:43:03  <andythenorth> there’s not much progression potential in ships
13:43:31  <andythenorth> also there is a risk that I design the set around available sprites, rather than gameplay :)
13:43:34  <andythenorth> serious risk :P
13:43:48  <Alberth> I never take much notice on new engines and so on
13:44:10  <Alberth> I mostly check when something is old, and needs updating
13:44:36  <andythenorth> ah, reliability
13:44:37  <Alberth> or when capacity is severely limited
13:44:45  * andythenorth never thinks about reliability :o
13:45:03  <Alberth> you're not the only one :)
13:46:29  <andythenorth> 1850-1950
13:46:33  <andythenorth> 1950-2050
13:46:43  <andythenorth> with a bit of spread either side
13:48:08  <andythenorth> also ignorance of realism
13:49:28  <Samu> .oops, it's not a matrix
13:49:30  <Samu> it's a box
13:49:40  <Samu> text inside a button
13:58:55  <Samu> calculating width is too confusing
13:59:18  <Samu> too many elements to account
14:01:29  <Samu> int DrawString(int left, int right, int top, StringID str, TextColour colour, StringAlignment align, bool underline, FontSize fontsize)
14:01:51  * andythenorth wonders how a consist can detach the engine
14:02:07  <andythenorth> I assumed loads of stuff is pointing at the lead vehicle
14:02:20  <andythenorth> also how to know how many engines to detach when shunting?
14:02:29  <andythenorth>
14:02:50  <andythenorth> also what if the consist has mid-train or rear engines
14:04:47  <Alberth> afaik you can't have a train without front engine
14:05:30  <Alberth> and you run into block reservations
14:05:48  <Alberth> new train may enter at the other side of the virtual signal
14:05:56  <Alberth> remove the signal..... boem
14:06:43  <Alberth> but in all, too much realism
14:07:31  <andythenorth> I don’t see the gameplay in it
14:08:00  <Alberth> playing model trains, I think
14:08:24  <Samu> right to left is too confusing
14:08:36  <Alberth> but that's a train simulator rather than a tycoon game
14:09:17  <Alberth> Samu: ?
14:09:37  <Alberth> if you paint 3 columns A B C, now paint them C B A
14:10:12  <Samu> left to right, i draw this in order: draw a square, then draw a number from 1 to 15, then draw script name, then optionally draw random_ai if it's random ai
14:11:04  <Alberth> so draw random_ai or nothing, draw scriptname, draw number, draw square
14:11:08  <Alberth> in rtl
14:11:48  <andythenorth> isn’t it just an array walked backwards?
14:12:02  <Alberth> if you make each element a separate widget yes
14:12:04  <andythenorth> and if the item in the array needs to compose, that also walks it’s own array backwards?
14:12:11  <andythenorth> “turtles all the way down"
14:12:14  <andythenorth> or backwards
14:12:25  <Alberth> but samu draws them manually all in the same widget
14:13:14  <Alberth> so you need to change the paint code
14:14:52  <Samu> i have a mess of widths
14:14:58  <Samu> i need to make this simplified
14:16:21  <andythenorth> Whale Song?
14:16:24  <andythenorth> Red Snapper?
14:16:28  <andythenorth> Sea Hog?
14:16:43  <andythenorth> Turtles?
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14:19:20  <andythenorth> Merchant Marine?
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14:34:32  <Alberth> Sea Horse?  :)
14:35:19  <Alberth> Turtles would be a roster, wouldn't it?
14:39:08  <andythenorth> dunno, might skip rosters
14:39:18  <andythenorth> means too much drawing
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14:39:30  <andythenorth> ships is ships is ships
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14:49:16  <Alberth> shishis
14:51:14  <Wolf01> shish-kebab
15:03:16  <Samu> i can't use WD_MATRIX_LEFT for adding a space between 2 strings or 1 string and 1 sprite?
15:03:23  <Samu> what do i use
15:05:29  <Samu> WD_FRAMERECT_LEFT?
15:06:05  <Samu> i wanted to add a space between the square box and the text that comes after
15:07:58  <Samu> this is confusing
15:08:04  <Alberth> don't think there is a constant for it
15:08:20  <Alberth> just use a small number
15:08:34  <Wolf01> it is confusing because you are asking like "teaspoon or fork to cut the steak?"
15:08:34  <Alberth> you can make it a constant if you like
15:09:10  <Samu> is this value doubled if the gui size is x2?
15:09:44  <Alberth> not by itself
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15:10:24  <Alberth> not sure how that is done, afaik there is a function that computes the space for you
15:17:36  <Samu> it was using 10 before, think i'll use 10 again
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16:01:21  <Samu> yeah! looks good!
16:01:32  <Samu> hebrew is right to left
16:01:39  <Samu> gui size is 2x
16:03:13  <Samu> i'm still not done though
16:09:22  <Samu> how am I gonna display the random ai indicator :(
16:10:44  <Samu> script name (indicator here) or (indicator here) script name?
16:12:42  <Samu> I'm more inclined towards (indicator here) script name
16:13:34  <Samu> pff... :(
16:18:11  <Samu> | (square) (space) name_of_script_aligned_to_left (space) (indicator_aligned_to_right) |
16:18:55  <Samu> i'm dealing with unknown string lenghts
16:19:31  <Samu> random ai sometimes is longer than name of script, and vice versa
16:19:41  <Samu> how do I do this
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16:22:09  <Alberth> one step at a time :)
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17:04:32  <andythenorth> I should add industry sound effects to FIRS? o_O
17:06:26  <Montana> btw, what is pacman economy?
17:06:40  <Montana> will you add more economies upp to FIRS?
17:08:21  <andythenorth> probably
17:08:26  <andythenorth> if I don’t get bored or hit by a bus
17:11:03  <Montana> hahah
17:13:29  <Montana> hahah FIRS programmed in Python?
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17:14:14  <Alberth> no, it's an NML code generator :)
17:14:18  <Samu> they overlap :/
17:25:14  <Montana> but i have seen in src files at FIRS .py files...
17:25:33  <Montana> anyway, what does NML  resemble to?
17:26:04  <andythenorth> nothing else I’ve ever seen :)
17:27:04  <Alberth> it's mostly declarative style programming
17:28:47  <Montana>
17:28:54  <Montana> is not this Python?
17:29:06  <Montana> why extension .py then ?
17:29:07  <Montana> X
17:29:11  <Montana> XD
17:30:10  <Alberth> that's the python NML code generator, that generates FIRS in NML
17:32:18  <Montana> ah ok, i get it now
17:34:44  <andythenorth> FIRS compile imports a bunch of python objects for industries and cargos, then uses them to generate the NML code
17:34:49  <andythenorth> and the docs
17:37:26  <andythenorth> hmm, ship set called ‘Sea Otter’? o_O
17:37:27  <andythenorth>
17:43:48  <Alberth> great mascotte!  :D
17:44:23  <Alberth> you could also give the ships sea/water animal names :)
17:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27555 trunk/src/lang/croatian.txt (2016-05-08 19:45:37 +0200 )
17:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> croatian: 3 changes by VoyagerOne
17:52:58  <Eddi|zuHause> have we just spent a whole day bikeshedding a name for the ship set?
17:55:08  <Samu>
17:55:28  <Samu> im missing something...
17:55:37  <Samu> something's not right
17:55:49  <Samu> what about the rightmost coordinate?
17:55:53  <Samu> r.right?
17:56:07  <Samu> or r.left in the case of right to left
17:58:18  <Alberth> use width instead, that stays the same in both cases
17:58:41  <Alberth> only the left edge moves then
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18:03:23  <Samu> this->width?
18:03:30  <Samu> size->width?
18:03:34  <shuzzle> I want to load my saved game, but this is all I get: Broken savegame: referencing invalid CargoPacket. Any ideas how to fix this?
18:03:37  <Samu> im not following
18:06:05  <Alberth> shuzzle: not, mostly
18:06:26  <Alberth> Samu: the width of the text in a single column
18:06:51  <Alberth> instead of having left and right, have left and width
18:07:05  <Alberth> width doesn't change, left and right both do change
18:07:36  <Samu> ah, that's a good idea
18:08:07  <shuzzle> Alberth: I see. :(
18:08:09  <Samu> gui zoom worries me though
18:08:16  <Samu> it doesn't double the value
18:08:30  <Alberth> there is a separate function for it
18:09:11  <Alberth> it was implemented after I finished making the gui system, so I don't know the details
18:09:31  <Alberth> but it should be everywhere that handles sizes of text
18:09:39  <Alberth> ie all over the place
18:10:12  <Alberth> shuzzle: maybe the savegame is from a different openttd version, eg a patchpack?
18:10:58  <Alberth> patchpack usually are not compatible with anything else
18:11:10  <Alberth> and that might include other versions of the same patchpack
18:13:18  <Montana> could you add a new feature for next version?: In Scenario editor, a button for deleting all industries.
18:20:20  <shuzzle> thanks Alberth . I will try to find out if it was another version.
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18:33:57  <andythenorth> meh
18:34:09  <andythenorth> all the old ship sprites I could reuse are broken
18:34:35  <andythenorth> they are too long in \ / angles
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18:36:56  <andythenorth> where is V453000?
18:37:02  <V453000> cat
18:37:07  <andythenorth> miaow
18:37:45  <andythenorth> Road Hog and Iron Horse have colour schemes, approximately
18:37:52  <andythenorth> like black for freight engines, cc for pax etc
18:37:58  <andythenorth> rules are broken sometimes
18:38:06  * andythenorth thinks ships need same
18:38:13  <andythenorth> iz good or bad?
18:44:13  <V453000> I don't think it matters terribly much, but yeah a certain style for each category is nice
18:44:30  <V453000> black/colourful for freight and CC for pax sounds good
18:44:38  <Alberth> given that I just do industrial cargo, I didn't notice the categories :p
18:45:46  <andythenorth> for steamships, IRL, they all have these ugly brown wheelhouses
18:45:50  * andythenorth doesn’t like
18:46:33  <Alberth> the only wood on the ship :)
18:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Montana: there used to be a command to delete all player-owned property, maybe you can build off from that?
18:48:12  <Montana> yea, but it does not delete industries, just railroad, stations ,etc
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19:08:14  <supermop_> yo
19:08:42  <supermop_> andythenorth: all real steamships are ugly
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19:09:56  <supermop_> best part of great war was dazzle camouflaging all those ugly steamers that got pressed into service as transports
19:10:01  <Alberth> /me would like some non-real non-ugly steamships
19:10:33  <supermop_> Alberth: option for dazzle camouflage livery?
19:10:45  <Alberth> for being non-ugly
19:11:36  <Alberth> we have no dangerous aircraft not dangerous submarines, no camouflage needed :p
19:11:42  <Alberth> *nor
19:20:21  <supermop_> melbourne had a dazzle tram when i was there
19:21:07  * andythenorth will invent steamships
19:21:10  <andythenorth> also bed
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19:22:31  <supermop_> isnt it like 8:20 pm there?
19:24:06  <Montana> is there a way to clone scenarios?
19:24:21  <Montana> i mean: same map,with their cities but vainilla
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19:43:12  <Alberth> currently not
19:43:41  <Alberth> best you can do is save a height map, and place the cities again
19:43:56  <Montana> too much work...
19:44:40  <Montana> i mean, a tedious task
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21:51:47  <Montana> has been Marico and InfrasCope NewGRF's deleted from Bananas? Was uploaded this afternoon and now they do not appear in the list... Some about licenses maybe?
21:52:41  <V453000> marico on bananas? impossible
21:53:56  <Montana> yea, it also impressed me, but i swear this afternoon was uploaded.
21:54:17  <Montana> even more: from my folder content_download/newgrf  i can see this file:
21:54:25  <Montana> Maricolandscapeitems-Latest.tar.gz
21:55:10  <Montana> inside the compressed folder, the newgrf with a copy of the GNU license
21:55:45  <Montana> maybe somone uploaded it without the consent of the authors?
22:05:56  <V453000> idk
22:06:32  <V453000> but if someone did, the author would definitely ask for it to be put down
22:06:35  <V453000> he is a complete asshole
22:09:08  <Samu> hey, who's in charge of zoomed sprites?
22:10:26  <Samu> this sprite SPR_UNREAD_NEWS
22:10:34  <ST2> zoomed in or zoomed out? ^^
22:10:47  <Samu> the newspaper isn't painted as white t.t
22:11:07  <Samu> in 2x mode, it's not painted in white
22:11:07  *** Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
22:11:11  <Samu> in normal mode it is
22:11:19  <Samu> who can fix?
22:13:01  <Samu> i am re-using it for the random ai script
22:13:17  <Samu> but it's drawing it with a transparent color instead of white
22:14:30  <Samu> hi st2
22:14:40  <Samu> i've been busy with this stuff
22:15:13  <ST2> me too... making our servers to use FIRS 2 (2.1.0) and YETI (0.1.1)
22:15:32  <ST2> all good now... but required a bunch of changes on GS's we use :S
22:16:00  <ST2> and I want to congratulate people envolved on FIRS 2 anf YETI
22:16:19  <ST2> awesome job... that players enjoy :)
22:16:24  <ST2> thank you :)
22:16:37  <Samu> i'm not too fond of NewGRF's
22:17:06  <ST2> as you know, I'm part of a community that runs a bunch of servers
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22:42:54  <supermop_> ST2: firs servers?
22:43:08  <ST2> yeah
22:43:17  <ST2> we have 2
22:43:24  <ST2> now using FIRS 2.1.0
22:43:28  <supermop_> cargo dist?
22:43:42  <ST2> one is CV (Company Value) and another CB (City Builder)
22:44:02  <ST2> nop (nonsense on CB goals)
22:44:11  <ST2> and our CV only have 4 towns :S
22:44:39  <ST2> but we're thinking on create 1 (or 2) with cargodist enabled
22:44:52  <ST2> kinda hard since we have mostly goal servers
22:44:58  <ST2> we'll get a way xD
22:45:21  <Samu> i'd like to try cargo dist
22:45:26  <Samu> seems interesting
22:45:50  <ST2> it is :)
22:46:05  <ST2> we don't use it because of the server goals we have
22:46:42  <supermop_> ST2: my problem with no cd even on a goal server is i end up with stupid looking passenger networks
22:46:42  <ST2> but that dnt low how interesting cargodist is... only dnt fit on our current settings ^^
22:47:20  <supermop_> also cd is useful for distributing supplies
22:48:01  <ST2> supermop, we use some GS's that require deliver pax and other cargo types to specific places
22:48:08  <ST2> aka, claimed towns
22:48:23  <ST2> cargodist dnt fit, at all, on that scenario
22:48:25  <supermop_> seems to me a GS should grow cities based on how well connected they are rather than just total cargo delivered
22:48:35  <Montana> it is? i have never used cargosti for no-pax,
22:48:52  <Montana> well
22:49:13  <Montana> i think neighbor city grow or somethinkg like that is the script you need
22:49:13  <supermop_> the central nodes of a network should grow more than the edges
22:50:05  <ST2> supermop_, that can be good for games without specific goals
22:50:14  <supermop_> Montana: no that just makes your city not grow and  small towns grow more, so all towns trend towards mean size of population in region
22:50:16  <ST2> we have a BusyBee server running
22:50:24  <ST2> how you fit cargodist there?
22:51:11  <supermop_> in busy bee i dont end up with networks, because disconnected point to point is encouraged
22:51:20  <ST2> exactly
22:51:35  <ST2> aka, all depends on server goals
22:51:39  <supermop_> so it doesnt matter if dist is on or off, effect is the same
22:51:47  <Montana> sorry, how can you make a reference to a person in the cha? im pretty new in IRC
22:51:47  <ST2> nop
22:52:37  <supermop_> and for passenger goals, i find they are easily met even with cargo dist on,
22:52:38  <ST2> if a BB goal is deliver XX passengers to a place... no need to deliver back, so cargodist is useless
22:52:53  <supermop_> ST2: but cargo dist doesnt hurt
22:53:03  <ST2> by the contrary
22:53:31  <Montana> that depens if you put cargo dist in symetric or asymetric
22:53:47  <ST2> anyway supermop, give a try on BTPro server 33 (closest to BB ^^)
22:54:15  <ST2> if you continue sayinf cargodist does any good on it... we could try
22:54:21  <ST2> saying*
22:54:29  <supermop_> ST2: if i am strictly dumping passengers in one town, then my trains are returning empty, and the capacity of my line is very inefficient
22:55:12  <ST2> as I said, some server goals dnt require efficient networks... ONLY requires you get to the goal
22:55:42  <ST2> ofc, pax back is good for profit
22:55:58  <ST2> but NOT needed to achive any BB goal, for example
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22:59:34  <supermop_> i wish there was a goal that was based on measurement of network
22:59:56  <ST2> if that possible to measure... I would like too ;)
23:00:03  <supermop_> for example, outbound capacity from a certain town or factory
23:00:41  <ST2> we have couple servers where the goal could handle cargodist ON - example, our servers #31 and #9
23:01:00  <ST2> but that must be discussed among our community admins team
23:01:14  <supermop_> ie can goods from this factory reach >70% of towns on map, can passengers from this town visit any town on the map, etc
23:01:36  *** Montana [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:02:13  <supermop_> i am going to step outside for a bit, maybe ill try one of your servers tonight!
23:02:27  <ST2> that's basically a "stations rating" server
23:02:34  <ST2> thx supermop_ :)
23:03:01  <ST2> suggestions are always welcome - even that on some goal servers... aren't :S
23:03:07  <ST2> and not my fault ^^
23:04:07  <ST2> admin port fails on sending some info - that's why many server would apprecciate this:
23:04:26  <ST2> not fails... simply dnt send/query it xD
23:05:31  <ST2> we have this
23:05:46  <Montana_> its weird you use toyland climate in bussybee server
23:05:47  <ST2> due our server controller and BB highly changed GS
23:05:49  <Montana_> D
23:05:51  <Montana_> XD
23:05:56  <ST2> it's random
23:06:04  <ST2> climate, I mean xD
23:06:06  <Montana_> ah ok
23:06:27  <ST2> Montana_, login and do !voterestart
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23:07:02  <Montana_> are not 30 goals many goals? how much time do people spend in achieving them?
23:07:30  <ST2>
23:07:47  <ST2> you can see climates used and time
23:09:03  <ST2> and ofc, the 15th best times per climate
23:12:05  <Montana_> i think the most important data is score/hour
23:12:10  <ST2> the original BB GS dnt cover a specifi goal limit - we add it because our server controller software allows it
23:12:17  <Montana_> it measures how effective is a player on a server
23:12:25  <ST2> well, after I created a plugin for it
23:12:56  <ST2> because impossible to make specific goal based on GS only
23:13:48  <ST2> Montana_, some players start with biggest goals, to make profit too
23:14:00  <ST2> and take the easiest one later
23:14:09  <ST2> other players do the opposite
23:14:17  <ST2> hard to measure effiency ^^
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23:15:53  <Montana_> true, but always there is an optimal way to do that
23:16:15  <ST2> ofc, on points servers point calculation we take what admin port provides: ratings, number of stations, vehicles, etc etc
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23:19:05  <ST2> but OpenTTD admin port sends few info.... and only quarterly
23:19:39  <ST2> so, we change GS's to send info directly to our server controller
23:20:31  <ST2> well, we dnt release the changes because are useless without server controllers
23:21:00  <Montana_> what do you mean with server controller?
23:21:21  <ST2> the software that controll the servers
23:21:36  <ST2> example, reddit uses Soap
23:22:45  <Montana_> ahh
23:22:48  <Montana_> i knoe
23:22:51  <Montana_> know*
23:23:24  <Montana_> do you need a IRC chat for make that Soap or autopilot work?
23:23:35  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
23:23:39  <Montana_> a own channel on IRC i mean
23:23:50  <ST2> guess so - I'm not used with Soap ^^
23:24:07  <ST2> in BTPro website, join our IRC
23:24:47  <ST2> IRC info is under Contact Us
23:26:55  <Montana_> i did, but noboyd is online
23:27:10  <ST2> really?!
23:27:16  <ST2> I'm online ^^
23:27:40  <ST2> among many other people xD
23:28:44  <ST2> Server:
23:28:44  <ST2> Port: 6668
23:28:44  <ST2> Channel: #btpro-chat
23:28:50  <Montana_> yes
23:28:55  <Montana_> oh wati
23:29:31  <Montana_> i have not any IRC client, I chat by my browser
23:29:37  <Montana_> do i need one of them?
23:29:47  <ST2>
23:30:12  <ST2> a dedicated IRC client is always the best ^^
23:48:02  <supermop_> ok
23:48:27  <supermop_> had some good xian noodles, but now i want ice cream
23:49:09  <ST2> well, what was 1st doesn't matter... because ice cream fits well with everything xD
23:49:48  <supermop_> indeed
23:50:07  <supermop_> how do i get registered for your servers?
23:50:25  <ST2>
23:50:37  <ST2> you can play without being registered
23:51:06  <ST2> registered players will get community points, can restart maps, among other stuff ^^
23:51:53  <ST2> if registering... always check SPAM folder for activation email ^^
23:52:55  <ST2> and do as Montana, join our IRC channels - Montana's getting crazy with it xD
23:54:52  <Montana_> XD
23:55:21  <Montana_> i knew you had interconnected servers, but not to at htat level
23:55:37  <ST2> it's insane, I know ^^
23:56:10  <ST2> servers channel at peak hours... it's a spam one ^^
23:56:36  <ST2> but it's how we, admins, controll them xD
23:56:50  <ST2> we (BTPro admins)*
23:58:36  <ST2> 1 of the best tools ever:
23:58:37  <ST2> [00:56:57] * +ttd-srv12 * !! Marvax Transports (5/Red) had a crash (vehicle ID 487: train collision at 0x57E09).
23:58:37  <ST2> [00:56:57] * +ttd-srv12 * !! Marvax Transports (5/Red) had a crash (vehicle ID 800: train collision at 0x58A09).
23:58:37  <ST2> [00:57:12] <~ST2> 12screen 0x58A09
23:58:37  <ST2> [00:57:13] <+ttd-srv12> Screenshot available at:
23:58:37  <ST2> [00:57:51] * +ttd-srv12 * <--- Linezoho (#391/ (Red)/FR) has left the game (leaving)
23:58:57  <Wolf01> 'night
23:59:00  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:59:02  <ST2> we can see what happns without enter the server ^^
23:59:30  <ST2> very helpfull when it's a RV's crash by train
23:59:52  <Montana_> isee

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