Config
Log for #openttd on 24th May 2016:
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08:37:08  <Wolf01> o/
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09:49:41  <Samu> hey
09:50:09  <peter1138> Hey! Been trying to meet you, ooh woah woah
09:50:47  <Samu> I'm hosting a server, with a client spectating
09:50:59  <peter1138> Exciting.
09:51:17  <Samu> it is having difficulty syncing at the end/start of months, why's that
09:51:25  <Samu> the client is in the same network
09:51:34  <Samu> me and me
09:53:14  <Samu> i'm the server and the client at the same time, on the same computer, there should be no reason to have the client lag behind, something's odd happening
09:57:58  <Samu> i'm making a video
09:58:07  <Wolf01> mmmh, I'm not in the mood for hunting a wordpress vulnerability :|
10:06:22  * peter1138 wonders what headphones to get.
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10:12:11  <Samu> video https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!1295&authkey=!AER8n48pIzzMXvk&ithint=file%2cmp4
10:13:24  <Samu> it happens at the 30th Oct transitioning to 1st Nov
10:14:10  <Samu> both server and client stall for a while, but the client stalls longer than the server, it isn't accompanying the server, lags behind for some reason
10:14:51  <peter1138> So find out what is causing it.
10:14:57  <Samu> how?
10:16:29  <peter1138> Anything but making a pointless video that is no help to anyone.
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10:17:36  <Samu> i couldn't think of a better way to reproduce it
10:20:05  <Samu> it does this every month transitioning
10:20:22  <Samu> have no idea where to begin
10:20:43  <Samu> both server and client aren't autosaving
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10:34:42  <Samu> something came to mind. maybe the server and clients have to advance both by performing the same long tick step. it's just that the server starts doing it first, stalling client once, then when it gets through, the client begins doing that same long step, stalling twice, then playing catch-up with the server.
10:37:40  <Samu> in essence, there's 3 stalls, right?
10:37:50  <Samu> catch-up is considered a stall
10:44:59  <Samu> that long tick step sometimes last for more than 5 seconds, client is getting a "possible connection lost"
11:04:30  <peter1138> Well done.
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11:05:16  <peter1138> So you know now that it'll probably be stalling with just the server running. Probably.
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13:29:17  <supermop> yo
13:41:48  <Flygon> Hey moppy
13:46:40  <supermop> designing this back yard makes me wish i had a roof deck
14:15:36  <monsted> create one :)
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14:21:17  <supermop> landlord doesn't let us up on the roof
14:25:03  <Alberth> moin
14:30:34  <Xaroth|Work> o/
14:33:18  <FR^2> supermop: so no "casually dropping from the roof" today?
14:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> use google maps?
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14:59:37  <Samu> i want to do something too complex for me
15:01:03  <Samu> there is a time that 1 slot is dealing with 2 configs
15:02:20  <Samu> want to know how it's possible to grab the config of the current ai instance
15:02:41  <Samu> but the instance is dead
15:05:07  <Samu> GetConfig(slot)->Change((*it).second->GetName(), (*it).second->GetVersion()); in detail: http://i.imgur.com/6axIkac.png
15:05:42  <Samu> in the example, I'm changing WrightAI to CivilAI
15:06:06  <Samu> it gets the WrightAI and then overwrites it with CivilAI stuff in it
15:06:37  <Samu> I want to grab the WrightAI stuff for posterior use, i don't know how to do this
15:19:33  <Samu> hey Wormnest i'm still running the game with 15 wormais
15:20:14  <Samu> it's been 60 years, no crashes so far, only 1 wormai couldn't do anything
15:20:17  <Wormnest> Cool, how are they doing
15:20:32  <Wormnest> Does it say why
15:20:39  <Samu> i set him to do trains only, couldn't start, because of that loan thing
15:20:56  <Samu> not enough money
15:21:12  <Wormnest> Yea that should be fixed in my dev version
15:21:28  <Samu>  also have one wormai that was only doing aircraft
15:21:48  <Samu> he did better than all others up to a point
15:22:13  <Samu> suddenly he starts getting rid of airports and aircrafts, his profit starts lowering
15:22:34  <Samu> not in a dangerous way, but it was strange
15:22:52  <Samu> eventually all the other wormAis which are using aircraft+train
15:23:00  <Samu> managed to catch him up in profits
15:23:03  <Wormnest> ThatÂŽs when an new airport type is introduced
15:23:27  <Wormnest> It starts upgrading all of them without looking if thatÂŽs smart
15:23:48  <Samu> the other wormais are probably doing the same, but they have trains to support this i guess
15:23:57  <Wormnest> I have some improvements for that here that I havenÂŽt committed yet
15:24:25  <Wormnest> If air is turned on then yes they all do that
15:25:58  <Samu> in the early years, the best wormai was red, now, after 60 years in-game, he's the 2nd worst
15:26:12  <Samu> let me check parameters
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15:27:33  <Samu> http://imgur.com/Ox2AKg7
15:27:37  <Samu> parameters for red
15:27:58  <Samu> those parameters were working great before the faster planes came out
15:28:53  <Samu> then the aircraft only wormai got ahead of him, while this red wormai was slowing down profits, up to what it stands now, 60 years later
15:29:12  <Samu> also, pink
15:29:15  <Samu> pink and cream
15:29:22  <Samu> were initially the worst ones
15:29:35  <Samu> now they're doing great
15:29:36  <Wormnest> ThatÂŽs probably because you have red set to short distances which is great for starting with slower planes
15:29:55  <Wormnest> but in the long run with fast planes longer distances will earn a lot more
15:32:36  <Samu> i have a couple of ais parameters set with tighter distances
15:32:42  <Samu> 300 to 400
15:32:45  <Samu> 350 to 450
15:32:47  <Samu> 400 to 500
15:33:19  <Samu> the bad part of this test is that they are also using trains
15:33:32  <Samu> and i can't come to a clear conclusion by looking just at the profit graph
15:33:36  <Samu> i intend to repeat the tests
15:34:33  <Samu> oh ya, i also got a 500 to 600
15:34:40  <Wormnest> I intend to remove the distances settings and try to figure out min/max based on date, plane speed etc
15:35:26  <Samu> i wanted to find out if a too long of a min distance isn't at times a good idea
15:35:59  <Samu> but then as stupid as I am, i also allowed them to make trains :p
15:38:44  <Wormnest> Well you could have turned off trains at a later date too
15:41:02  <Samu> looking at finances for aircraft
15:41:49  <Samu> http://i.imgur.com/eo2HEyu.png
15:42:16  <Samu> from left to right, mix/max distances are 300 to 400, 350 to 450, 400 to 500, 500 to 600
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15:42:38  <Samu> seems that 500 to 600 yields better aircraft income
15:43:19  <Alberth> currently
15:46:14  <Samu> wormais 12 13 14 and 15 use default values for distance, but different values for min town size
15:47:20  <Wormnest> It depends on more factors and as Alberth said that can change over time
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15:48:20  <Samu> wormai 1 is the default
15:48:26  <Samu> 100% default
15:48:48  <Samu> and it's Green in the profit graph
15:48:54  <Samu> it's in 3rd place, if i see it right
15:50:02  <Samu> it trades blow with pale green, let me check
15:50:25  <Samu> ah wormai 14
15:50:26  <Wormnest> It might also have had a little profit of starting first
15:50:50  <Wormnest> Although with such a large map with such high vehicle limits probably doesn matter much
15:50:52  <Samu> wormai 14 has a min town size of 1500, i believe, gonna check
15:51:16  <Samu> yup, 1500
15:51:34  <Samu> map is big, 4kx4k
15:51:55  <Wormnest> Another thing is how do you measure how well they perform
15:52:10  <Wormnest> Operating profit isnÂŽt they only way you can look at it
15:52:29  <Samu> pink and cream had a bad start
15:52:40  <Samu> 1500/2000 min town size respectively
15:53:16  <Samu> red had best start, due to short distance and slower planes
15:53:33  <Samu> purple at the start was in the middle of the crowd
15:53:34  <Wormnest> What would be funny to see if you turned on infrastructure costs now lol
15:53:46  <Samu> not the worst, and not the best
15:53:58  <Samu> purple is the one with only aircraft and no trains
15:54:45  <Samu> so, in these last years, I expect pink to come as the winner
15:54:50  <Samu> i will wait till 2050
15:55:48  <Wormnest> Must be terribly slow
15:55:54  <Samu> may take 2 more days, it's horribly slow yes
15:56:16  <Samu> there are ticks taking 5+ seconds to process
15:57:10  <Samu> i don't quite understand how cream is keeping it up
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15:59:38  <Samu> wormai 12, cream, has set a min town size of 100
15:59:54  <Wormnest> There are probably enough larger towns now especially on that size map
16:00:08  <Wormnest> oh ok
16:00:19  <Samu> distances are default
16:00:23  <Samu> 150/1500
16:00:41  <Wormnest> but it picks a random town larger than that
16:01:01  <Wormnest> with many towns thereÂŽs a good chance the town it picks will be larger
16:02:42  <Samu> min town sizes: wormai 12 = 100, wormai 1 = 500 (default), wormai 13 = 1000, wormai 14 = 1500, wormai 15 = 2000
16:04:08  <Samu> there's white and brown, they have the thinking speed different than all others
16:05:05  <Wormnest> Testing town sizes probably works better if you use a smaller map that way the choice will be more limited
16:05:27  <Wormnest> or a map with less towns
16:05:58  <Samu> white thinking speed = slow, brown = normal
16:06:16  <Samu> i thought of running 8 openttd instances of the same map
16:06:21  <Samu> for the next test
16:06:36  <Samu> only 1 wormai per openttd
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16:08:06  <Alberth> hola
16:08:25  <Samu> i'd like choice not to be a limiting factor, but maybe you're right
16:09:23  <Samu> with so many towns, the chances of large towns are also higher
16:09:35  <Samu> yeah, maybe i'll make a 512x512 test
16:13:13  <frosch123> moin mammals
16:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause> is that discriminatory to non-mammals?
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16:28:09  <Alkel_U3> lizzard people here?
16:28:33  <frosch123> there are snails and stuff
16:30:20  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe there would be more of them here if the environment wasn't so hostile?
16:31:15  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: most here are zombies
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16:57:51  <andythenorth> o/
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17:03:24  <supermop> yo
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17:07:30  <supermop> andythenorth: rock or succulent garden can do without much care
17:07:43  <andythenorth> fair point
17:07:51  <andythenorth> I have tub plants on a deck
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17:09:25  <supermop> build a working scale garden monorail
17:09:44  <Samu> andythenorth:
17:10:11  <Samu> did you work on terragenesis?
17:10:44  <andythenorth> ha no
17:10:59  <andythenorth> that is a significant over-estimate of my programming abilities ;)
17:11:06  <Samu> oh :( i forgot who did it
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17:11:54  <Samu> i get several 7>..\src\genworld_gui.cpp(290): warning C4334: '<<': result of 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits (was 64-bit shift intended?)
17:13:37  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/piugwc0vq - been getting them for a long time
17:14:00  <Samu> a year, maybe more, i remember there was someone working on the terragenesis
17:14:16  <Samu> can't recall for sure :(
17:14:38  <Samu> lines 210 to 214
17:14:54  <Samu> and line 326
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17:18:42  <Alberth> chillcore perhaps?
17:19:07  <Samu> ah, ya i think so
17:19:22  <supermop> andythenorth: espresso machine and micro-batch roasting is a good way to blow a ton of money on a hobby
17:19:37  <supermop> fiancee wants to open a bar/cafe
17:19:40  <andythenorth> hmm
17:19:48  <andythenorth> I am bored of nespresso pods
17:19:55  <supermop> worthless
17:20:02  <supermop> buy a linea mini
17:20:21  <supermop> mazzer grinder etc etc
17:20:31  <andythenorth> a friend of mine has that I think
17:20:33  <supermop> 10 grand gone in the blink of an eye
17:20:56  <supermop> and then you'll be cursed to never enjoy cheap coffee again
17:21:17  <andythenorth> ah, he doesn’t have a linea mini; he has a coffee machine that google images found as related :P
17:21:25  <andythenorth> not 95
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17:22:04  <supermop> i wanted to ask for a linea mini as a wedding gift, but we have no room in the apartment, and fiancee thought it was a bit much to ask some unlucking soul to buy that
17:22:50  <supermop> so my coffee nerding currently stops at pourover, aero press, and an acaia scale
17:23:20  <andythenorth> maybe I should take up stick whittling
17:23:33  <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you see the air turbine dragster?
17:23:41  <Wolf01> no
17:23:54  <andythenorth> Eurobricks
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17:24:00  <andythenorth> I was convinced it was just for show
17:24:07  <andythenorth> but no, it works, and is really simple
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17:24:56  <Wolf01> ha!
17:25:03  <Wolf01> nice
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17:50:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i apparently had an internet-outage last night, about 7 hours... the longest ever, as far as i remember
17:52:11  <frosch123> you fell asleep?
17:52:32  <frosch123> most people do that
17:52:41  <frosch123> 7.5 hours are average for an adult iirc
17:52:46  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, so THAT's what that is.
17:56:27  <V453000> XD
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18:30:34  <supermop> Eddi never sleeps
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19:00:54  <andythenorth> “7.5 hours” :P
19:01:12  <andythenorth> hmm, actually, no that’s how much I do get these days
19:01:21  * andythenorth gets back in his box
19:03:17  <supermop> sounds like a lot for a parent, andy
19:14:39  <andythenorth> I go to bed early ;)
19:15:25  <supermop> at 20:15?
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19:18:23  <andythenorth> well, maybe not that early
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19:42:45  <Majestic_Trains> hello?
19:42:53  <Majestic_Trains> anyone online?
19:43:04  <Majestic_Trains> il take that as no, bye
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19:45:53  <Samu> :9
19:46:29  <Samu> the biggest capacity aircraft are out
19:46:32  <Samu> Wormnest__:
19:47:31  <Wormnest__> nice
19:47:43  <Samu> have you considered refiting some aircraft to mail?
19:48:23  <Wormnest__> why
19:48:52  <Samu> refit ratio is 100% for default aircraft for some reason
19:49:23  <Samu> and mail is more valuable than passenger
19:49:55  <Samu> but availability perhaps
19:50:00  <Samu> might be the problem
19:50:15  <Samu> there's way more passengers waiting at airports than mail
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19:51:03  <Wormnest__> yea probably more than mail
19:51:46  <Wormnest__> still might be an idea to think about sometime if one of the airports on a route is short on passengers
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23:11:00  <Wolf01> 'night
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