Log for #openttd on 11th June 2016:
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07:02:57  <Alberth> o/
07:09:18  <andythenorth> o/
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07:38:51  * andythenorth scratches head
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07:41:08  <andythenorth> I levelled the stats of all the different truck types a while ago
07:41:22  <andythenorth> e.g. open, flat, box, tank, dump, edibles tank, freezer
07:41:27  <Alberth> ok
07:41:30  <andythenorth> all same speed, capacity, hp for each generation
07:41:37  <andythenorth> seems to make sense in game
07:41:49  <andythenorth> but (1) fights realism (2) Iron Horse does not do that
07:42:07  <Alberth> truck type is largely decided by cargo type, I assume?
07:42:11  <andythenorth> yup
07:43:02  <andythenorth> open trucks are universal, so there’s always at least two choices (specialist / universal)
07:43:24  <andythenorth> making the specialist trucks ‘better’ just makes the universal truck look stats-crippled
07:43:45  <Alberth> freezer seems nice with slower decay
07:43:58  <andythenorth> yes, decay and loading speed vary, but player doesn’t see those
07:44:02  <Alberth> at the cost of some capacity, perhaps
07:44:13  <andythenorth> it’s probably fine, but I noticed Iron Horse has a different approach :)
07:44:46  <Alberth> how is tank different from edibles tank?
07:44:50  <Alberth> just type of cargo?
07:45:17  <andythenorth> edibles tank has a decay bonus iirc
07:45:23  <Alberth> universal type could be autorefit-ish as feature
07:45:24  <andythenorth> tank does not refit food-type cargos
07:45:47  <andythenorth> having put it into words, it *is* fine, I just need to change sprites for some trucks
07:46:24  <Alberth> more pixels :)
07:46:47  <andythenorth> yup
07:46:55  <andythenorth> I’m getting good at changing truck lengths quickly :P
07:49:07  <Alberth> I usually pick the specialist wagon, as it gives more diversity in the trains
07:51:05  <andythenorth> yup
07:51:15  * andythenorth bbl
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07:52:14  <Alkel_U3> morning
07:52:26  <Alkel_U3> that's a nice airbus
07:53:16  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
07:53:31  <Wolf01> o/
08:03:01  <Alberth> moin W, and so early in the afternoon! :)
08:09:27  <Wolf01> "so we just halved the mining time of rails" \o/
08:09:50  <Wolf01> "The inventory space was running out in the later game, so we made the armor give the character an inventory size bonuses (up to 30)" \o/ \o/ \o/
08:10:27  <Alkel_U3> oooh, new 3f
08:11:09  <Wolf01> also what's that crane in the picture? hype crane
08:13:18  <Wolf01> V, new belts graphics?
08:14:06  <Wolf01> also concrete walls connectable to circuit network?
08:14:37  <Alkel_U3> that looks like old belt, just the circuit network box also comes with a frame on top of the belt
08:15:09  <Wolf01> I hope they finally added sidings to the belts, they look like hovering now
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08:56:15  <Samu> hi
09:03:49  <Samu> i wish i could reproduce borkai issue in a timely manner, but having to wait 47 years for it is a big turndown
09:05:03  <Samu> when i load the savegame, his ram usage is back to nothing
09:05:11  <Samu> it must go 47 straight
09:05:16  <Samu> 47 years
09:06:10  <Samu> what went wrong with the server when borkai crashed?
09:06:22  <Samu> I wonder what happened exactly then
09:06:37  <Samu> my spectating instance got a network-connection lost
09:06:42  <Samu> right when borkai crashed
09:07:52  <Samu>
09:08:47  <Samu> *** Xarick Preto has left the game (leaving)
09:08:55  <Samu> that's definitely not what I did
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09:09:32  <Samu> dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to master server dbg: [script] The script died unexpectedly. One of the running scripts crashed. Please report this to the script author with a screenshot of the AI/Game Script Debug Window ‎*** Xarick Preto has left the game (leaving) dbg: [net] Closed client connection 10
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09:13:54  <Samu> frame 1303406
09:14:29  <Alberth> if it eats memory very slowly, I can see it would take 47 years
09:14:57  <Samu> (1303406 / 74) / 365 = 48.2
09:15:02  <Samu> okay, so it's 48 years
09:27:07  <Samu> no, this was the frame when i re-joined after it crashed
09:27:09  <Samu> my bad
09:27:22  <Samu> there is no real way to tell exactly when bork crashed
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09:28:21  <Samu> erm, no that's someone else joining before me, gah... this is complicated to debug
09:28:43  <Samu> either 47 or 48 years
09:28:48  <Samu> no more, no lesss
09:29:55  <Samu> oh, that's actually my ip address
09:30:14  <Samu> strange, sometimes it connects me via intranet, sometimes via internet
09:33:06  <Wolf01> that's why they invented the hosts file
09:33:22  <Samu> Your IPv4 Address Is:
09:33:31  <Samu> dbg: [net] [server] Client connected from on frame 1303406
09:33:37  <Samu> yup, that's me
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09:34:55  <Samu> - confirmed again, it was me
09:37:07  <Samu> hi Wormnest , maybe u can bring light to this issue
09:37:57  <Samu> do u know what borkai is doing that i hogs ram like nothing?
09:38:02  <Samu> it*
09:38:42  <Wormnest> I havenÂŽt really looked into borkaiÂŽs code so IÂŽm afraid not
09:38:48  <Samu> oh:(
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09:40:07  <Samu> what are hosts file?
09:43:52  <Wormnest> hosts contains website name to ip translations/redirects
09:45:22  <Wolf01> also static routes might help
09:46:56  <Wolf01> but if you set up a host or a static route in the same pc you use as server, the advertising to master server won't work
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09:49:44  <Wolf01> you might want to connect via direct ip -> localhost instead of the server list
09:50:28  <Samu> i see, it must have been my error
09:50:43  <Samu> i was connected via server list indeed
09:50:59  <V453000> Wolf01: :)
09:51:08  <Wolf01> it's useless to advertise a private server for testing only
09:51:24  <Wolf01> V, furious hype
09:51:34  <Samu> i see my server listed twice
09:51:49  <Samu> and
09:52:00  <Samu> i must have joined the wrong one
09:52:25  <V453000> furious hype.
09:52:40  <V453000> guys are finding a lot of desyncs and crashes lately, should be release-ready soon :)
09:53:10  <V453000> I like how much mystery and wtf did I cause with the circuit connector module preview :)
09:53:24  <Wolf01> :D
09:54:19  <V453000> so, the "crane" is new train station graphics, wall is gate
09:56:02  <Wolf01> I like it, it fits the setting more than the old "pole"
09:56:19  <V453000> it has some extra features, too
09:56:35  <V453000> (lights for actiity showing)
09:56:45  <Samu> @logs
09:56:45  <DorpsGek> Samu:
09:57:23  <Wolf01> I hope you changed the ticking sound too, it is driving me mad when I'm working on stations, I still hear it also when I go to sleep XD
10:04:33  <Samu> i got a 3rd ip address
10:04:47  <Samu>
10:05:02  <Samu> what a mess
10:05:17  <Samu> sometimes this one is
10:05:39  <Wolf01> you do really know how these things work, don't you?
10:08:58  <Samu> sometimes I think I don't
10:09:07  <Samu> so, no
10:09:53  <Samu> never changes
10:10:17  <Samu> that's the only thing I observe, and I'm not sure about it "never" changing
10:14:53  <debdog>
10:19:46  <Samu> i seem to have an ipv6 address too, a tunnel of some sort... this is hell
10:20:19  <Wolf01> welcome to the IT world :)
10:20:19  <Samu> fe80::a9a4:c62b:4b52:93ca%3
10:20:45  <Alkel_U3>
10:22:52  <Samu> 2001:0:9d38:6ab8:87a:36aa:aba4:543
10:23:46  <Samu> ok, enough of that
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10:45:35  <Samu> dbg: [net] [server] Client connected from ::1 on frame 2280508
10:45:56  <Samu> ::1 is ipv6 address?
10:46:34  <Samu> yes, it seems
10:46:39  <Samu> localhost for ipv6
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10:48:57  <Samu_> @logs
10:48:57  <DorpsGek> Samu_:
10:49:13  <Samu_> start /D "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD" openttd.exe -b 8bpp-optimized -n :3980#255
10:49:58  <Samu_> this means I'm joining my server 1 as spectator with ipv6 address ::1
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10:50:32  <Samu__> why am I being dropped from chat
10:50:36  <Samu__> :(
10:51:02  *** Samu___ [] has joined #openttd
10:51:10  <Samu___> [11:50] == Disconnected from server: Failed to connect, please connect to and accept the certificate and try again
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10:52:04  <Samu____> [11:50] == Disconnected from server: Failed to connect, please connect to and accept the certificate and try again
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10:54:01  *** Samu_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:54:09  <Xarick> test
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10:54:32  *** Xarick [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:54:51  <Wolf01> lol, chat annoyed by him?
10:54:51  *** Samu____ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:56:07  *** Samu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:59:12  <Samu_> test
10:59:50  <Samu_> [11:50] == Disconnected from server: Failed to connect, please connect to and accept the certificate and try again
10:59:57  <Samu_> I'm in for real now?
11:00:24  <Samu_> there is no certificate whatsoever that I can accept
11:00:30  <Samu_> I don't know what's that about
11:03:43  <Samu_> @logs
11:03:43  <DorpsGek> Samu_:
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11:08:16  <Samu> bla
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11:53:57  <Samu> i'm gonna start logging scripts in a different manner
11:54:04  <Samu> debuglevel script=9
11:54:45  <greeter> have fun reading those logs lol
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12:37:20  <andythenorth> o/
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12:39:11  <greeter> greetings andythenorth
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12:53:10  <LondonCentralB7TL> Hey
12:56:13  <Alberth> yo
12:57:12  <FLHerne> Oy
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13:09:16  <Alberth> no london central here
13:12:05  <Samu> arf... nocab
13:12:13  <Samu> can't watch it
13:12:53  <Samu> lost connection
13:13:01  <Samu> if i rejoin, i will trigger a save
13:13:49  <Samu> i need to do only one save, in 1st jan 2051
13:14:05  <Samu> is there a way to schedule a save?
13:16:41  <Samu> dbg: [net] send failed with error 10054 ‎*** Xarick Preto has left the game (connection lost) dbg: [net] Closed client connection 3
13:16:51  <Samu> what is 10054 again :(
13:16:56  <Samu> brb
13:18:43  <Samu> Connection reset by peer.
13:19:54  <Samu> An existing connection was forcibly closed by the remote host. This normally results if the peer application on the remote host is suddenly stopped, the host is rebooted, the host or remote network interface is disabled, or the remote host uses a hard close
13:20:06  *** KouDy_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:20:11  <Samu> well i hibernated
13:20:22  <Samu> not really closed the connection
13:20:48  <Alberth> without disconnecting? yeah, that counts as "application suddenly stopped" :p
13:21:23  <Alberth> you have to send answers when you receive data
13:22:23  <Alberth> like "I received it in good/bad shape"
13:22:39  <Samu> some connections stand
13:22:45  <Samu> a few drop
13:22:51  <Alberth> no they don't
13:23:02  <Samu> most of the time it stands, but lately i've been getting a mix
13:23:14  <Alberth> either the connection was really never there, or it is silently re-established
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13:23:51  <Alberth> eg games just send you data without caring that you received it
13:24:13  <Alberth> that is faster, but not reliable
13:24:43  <Alberth> openttd wants confirmation, and sets up a proper network connection that gives reliability checks
13:24:47  <Samu> what does windows do when it hibernates?
13:25:07  <Alberth> just die, from an external network point of view
13:25:27  <Samu> i got 8 servers and 8 spectating instances, i tell windows, HIBERNATE NOW, i thought it pauses everything and saves current windows session state
13:25:39  <Samu> but i dunno what happens under the hood
13:25:44  <Alberth> sure, inside your system
13:26:08  <Samu> yes, they're all the same system
13:26:26  <Alberth> likely it uses timers with system time
13:26:42  <Alberth> so when you boot up again it finds a huge gap of time missing
13:28:14  <andythenorth> hmmm
13:28:15  <andythenorth> wheels
13:28:42  <Alberth> ha, heavy steel :)
13:29:07  <Alberth> how fast does that truck go?
13:31:46  <andythenorth> probably 55mph or so
13:31:47  <andythenorth> dunno :)
13:32:14  <Alberth> normal speed thus, which makes sense, I guess
13:32:33  <Alberth> sounds a bit dangerous that fast with so much weight behind you :p
13:36:17  <andythenorth> 74t gross weight
13:37:32  <Samu> nice console command, getdate
13:37:43  <Samu> i need to be using it often
13:38:01  <Samu> there's no other way to tell the current date of nocab server, is it?
13:38:15  <Samu> oh, maybe there is
13:38:46  <Samu>
13:38:55  <Samu> nice, better this way
13:39:11  <andythenorth> seems they are 55mph, and 35mph in winter
13:39:19  <Alberth> :)
13:39:30  <andythenorth> and restricted to travelling at certain times of day
13:39:41  <andythenorth> and they have more brake force per wheel than ‘normal’ trucks
13:40:05  <Alberth> you'd really want that :)
13:40:13  * andythenorth wonders about resurrecting RV-wagons concept
13:40:27  <andythenorth> optional trailers for trucks, like building trains
13:40:57  <andythenorth> there was a spec
13:41:11  <Samu> do you know how I can trigger a save on 1st Jan 2051?
13:41:23  <Samu> it's important that I save it by then
13:41:27  <Samu> i can't miss it
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13:45:14  <Samu> also note I can only save once, only got 1 shot, else nocab will take too long to save and crashes
13:45:47  <Samu> i dont mind when it crashes on 1st jan 2051, that's when I end my testings
13:49:44  <Alberth> RVs can use a lot of love :)
13:50:24  <andythenorth> currently they’re a bit restrictive
13:50:36  <andythenorth> Road Hog is going to end visually quite bland, like default vehicles
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13:51:24  <andythenorth> upgrading from single-unit to trailer trucks isn’t possible (due to drive in stops)
13:51:32  <andythenorth> so ~everything has to be a trailer truck
13:51:44  <andythenorth> similar appearance and size for all generations
13:52:08  <andythenorth> nvm :)
14:05:46  <Wolf01> why do give fucks about this? with trains nobody stops you to upgrade to electrified if a station isn't and the train can't enter the station and deadlock the entire network
14:10:14  <andythenorth> because that’s railtypes and fair mistake
14:10:23  <andythenorth> RV stops are just a booby trap
14:10:45  <andythenorth> it’s like the game punching you in the face just for lulz
14:11:29  <Wolf01> I don't see it this way, it's part of the puzzle ;)
14:12:18  <FLHerne> It sort of has to work that way, a HEQS tram backing into a drive-in stop would look ridiculous :P
14:12:29  <andythenorth> doesn’t apply to trams ;)
14:12:46  <andythenorth> you can’t ever have a tram with a drive-in stop in its orders
14:12:49  <FLHerne> A string of crawlerwagons wouldn't be any better
14:13:00  <Wolf01> still wrong example
14:13:36  <andythenorth> those examples assumes the ‘problem’ is that RVs should be able to use drive-in stops ;)
14:13:40  <andythenorth> assume *
14:14:51  <andythenorth> it bugs me when the UI loads a gun for you, then asks you to point it at your head
14:15:08  <andythenorth> then sends you helpful ‘you screwed up' messages after you’ve shot yourself
14:16:25  <Wolf01> the only places I've seen trucks with semi trailers going in drive-in stations had an enormous free space to let trucks to maneuver
14:16:51  <Wolf01> and clearly TT drive-in stations are thought for lorries, not trucks
14:17:19  <Samu> mogul server is reaching 2051 real soon, same as AIAI
14:18:11  <Wolf01> so, if I want to purchase a truck with semi trailer, or even a lorry with trailer, I should check where I need to send it
14:18:41  <Wolf01> the same when you have 5 tile long stations and you purchase a mammoth 72 tiles  train
14:19:12  <andythenorth> nah, drive-in stops should just be removed
14:19:22  <andythenorth> but no-one will do that because somebody will make a counter case
14:19:46  <Wolf01> for the first stage of game and inner city delivering I like drive-in stops
14:19:56  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yep, they're quite useful
14:20:00  <Wolf01> and I use lorries for those
14:20:27  <andythenorth> someone suggested maybe showing station compatibility in buy menu
14:20:30  <andythenorth> maybe frosch
14:20:35  <ST2> I'll do a counter counter case, by the fact I agree with andythenorth xD
14:21:18  <Samu> 2051 :)
14:21:31  <Samu> mogul has ended without crashing
14:21:34  <FLHerne> Bleh, I have to confess these crawlers are bloody useless :-/
14:21:51  <andythenorth> HEQS?
14:22:00  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yeah
14:22:15  <andythenorth>  completely stupid :)
14:22:21  <andythenorth> they only make sense with NotRoadTypes
14:22:23  <FLHerne> I try to use everything just to counter your and Pikka's "no-one uses everything!" grumblinkg
14:22:40  <andythenorth> HEQS is stupid, but somehow it’s ok
14:22:48  <FLHerne> But they're just so damn slow, a sane vehicle with a third of the capacity has just as much throughput
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14:23:10  <Wolf01> if it was for them, we only had trains and trucks now :P
14:23:11  <FLHerne> Or trams
14:23:11  <andythenorth> they are a solution looking for a problem
14:24:56  <Samu> Company Value: £2,007,985,370 - MogulAI
14:25:44  <andythenorth> $someone should test push build of Road Hog
14:25:53  <andythenorth> to see if I’m smoking crack with all this redrawing
14:26:11  <FLHerne> This looked like a good place, but even for such a short route they were frustratingly sluggish
14:26:29  <FLHerne> (also, yes, roadtypes, otherwise they just look silly :P)
14:26:38  <Samu> Company Value: £1,723,079,300 - AdmiralAI
14:26:51  <Samu> mogul takes 1st place
14:27:22  <andythenorth> FLHerne: want to help implement NotRoadTypes? o_O
14:27:55  <Wolf01> I would
14:28:58  <Samu> Company Value: £1,390,486,908 - Terron
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14:29:16  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I'll put it on the list of things to do once I've done all the other things I never get round to :P
14:29:45  <andythenorth> can’t be helped, eh? :P
14:30:15  <andythenorth> so, tanker lorry, powered by steam? o_O
14:32:31  <FLHerne> Sounds slightly anachronistic?
14:32:52  <Wolf01> and even electric vehicles >2000
14:32:53  <FLHerne> Barrels on dropside thing?
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14:33:43  * andythenorth was wondering about fire risk
14:33:45  <andythenorth> but eh
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15:09:07  <Samu> ST2: Company value is the most generally accepted performance indicator
15:09:15  <Samu> or do you have another view on it?
15:09:31  <ST2> most common, yes
15:09:37  <ST2> the most fair, no
15:09:53  <Samu> well, how to make it fair?
15:10:30  <ST2> consider the Bank account is a start ^^
15:10:49  <ST2> CV can be exploited by buying alot of trains
15:11:35  <Rubidium> and bank account by taking out a loan
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15:12:22  <Samu> i dont know if AIs can exploit that
15:12:35  <Samu> probably they can
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15:12:52  <ST2> Bank account = Cash you have - Loan
15:13:21  <ST2> gladly OpenTTD allows GS's to read both and do the math ^^
15:14:01  <Samu> i see some AIs that are always wasting money
15:14:09  <Samu> hmm
15:14:09  <ST2> the sad part is that info is only provided quarterly :(
15:14:50  <Samu> what about yearly profits?
15:15:07  <Samu> yearly income
15:15:28  <ST2> that can be used too but easelly exploited too, by human players, I mean ^^
15:16:08  <ST2> ideal is a mix ^^
15:16:18  <Samu> i dont think humans can exploit 5000 vehicles in the last year anyway
15:16:23  <ST2> but hard to define values
15:17:09  <andythenorth> blearch
15:17:43  <Samu> company value + last year income
15:17:50  <Samu> hmm delivered cargo?
15:18:21  <Samu> most profitable vehicle last year
15:18:29  <Samu> is what i've been looking
15:18:31  <Samu> but... meh
15:18:33  <ST2> flip a coin :P
15:18:47  <Samu> there are certain AIs, like terron, who like to sell vehicles tooo damn often
15:18:56  <Samu> they don't even get a last year profit
15:19:20  <andythenorth> why are the mining trucks in Road Hog?  Anyone played it and used them?
15:20:12  <Wormnest> Bank account is not always a good indicator
15:20:38  <Wormnest> an ai that invests a lot will have a lower bank account than one that does invest a lot in improvements
15:21:27  <Wormnest> *does not
15:21:54  <Samu> i noticed that, but not always the case, it reaches a point where the many actions they need to do don't outpace the profit they earn
15:21:56  <ST2> there's not a perfect one, if used isolated, imo
15:22:15  <ST2> CV and performance can be a good mix
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15:23:00  <Wormnest> Yea a combination is best
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15:25:07  <ST2> we don't use it (community choice), but n-ice goal servers have a combo
15:25:11  <ST2> like: [16:24:31] <+OTTD-3> --- First company with 100,000,000 EUR CV and a perf. score of 300 wins the game. ---
15:25:31  <frosch123> andythenorth:
15:25:42  <frosch123> i need better names :/
15:25:50  <frosch123> "Stations:" is weird
15:25:58  <frosch123> also, what to display for trams?
15:26:34  <Samu> performance rate, well all AIs reach 900 in less than 10 years
15:26:39  <Samu> or most
15:26:58  <frosch123> also, where to put this line between all the other ones?
15:28:31  <andythenorth> frosch123: ‘Stations:’ is not bad
15:28:35  <andythenorth> it’s exactly the noun
15:28:43  <andythenorth> ‘routing’ or something would be worse
15:28:49  <andythenorth> name the thing for what it is
15:29:36  <andythenorth> what would you put for trains? o_O
15:29:47  <frosch123> nothing for ships and trains :)
15:30:07  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I have, they're alright for short shuttle
15:30:09  <frosch123> but since i added bus/truck for road vehicles, it may need tram/cargo-tram for trams?
15:30:19  <frosch123> tram-stop, cargo-tram-stop :/
15:30:42  <frosch123> or i just disply nothing for trams as well :)
15:31:09  <Samu> pickup point?
15:31:24  <andythenorth> frosch123: I figured nothing for trams
15:31:35  <frosch123> not sure whether removeing the "bus-" and "truck-" part is good
15:31:37  <andythenorth> but maybe the pax/freight thing is a point
15:31:48  <frosch123> i just may be esier for translators
15:31:56  <frosch123> *it
15:32:20  <Samu> "compatible stations:"
15:32:21  <frosch123> "all stops" and "drive-through-stops only" would work in english
15:32:42  <Samu> oh, that 2nd part
15:33:08  <frosch123> but maybe people don't get the bus/truck thingie :p
15:33:15  <andythenorth> ‘all’ might cause bus/truck problems :P
15:36:14  <andythenorth> nice feature though
15:37:30  * andythenorth removes all the mining trucks from Road Hog
15:38:08  <Samu> oops, CPU (the AI named like that), needs some fine tunning in its parameters to be any decent, thing I better test him some other day
15:38:37  <Samu> think*
15:42:26  <Samu> Company Value: £1,780,553,625 - AIAI
15:42:42  <Samu> slightly better than AdmiralAI
15:43:04  <Samu> i suspect they use the same code
15:46:39  <Samu> Automatic Idiot AI version iota (95)
15:46:42  <Samu> lol
15:46:55  <Samu> resuses code from: bla bla bla, AdmiralAI, bla bla
15:47:16  <Samu> heh I suspected as much
15:48:07  <Samu> they were mimicing many stuff
15:48:12  <Samu> but interesting
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16:51:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm usually hesitant when andythenorth says "i remove every X", but yes, mining (or all off-road) stuff belongs into HEQS
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16:55:25  <andythenorth> HEQS is dead