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Log for #openttd on 2nd August 2016:
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00:20:39  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6CF59.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:21:53  <Samu> 1994, 2046
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07:43:52  <Wolf01> moin
07:44:33  <Alberth> hi hi
07:45:30  <V453000> yo
07:51:31  <V453000> @logs
07:51:31  <DorpsGek> V453000: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
07:53:14  <V453000> you found them foundations?
07:53:15  <V453000> yet?
07:53:20  <V453000> gief
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08:43:17  <MonkeyDrone> o/ Good morning, 3rd interview nailed. Things are looking good :D
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08:43:35  <MonkeyDrone> One last thing to be done for the job, a medical checkup and i'm in the green, awww yyiiiss
08:45:17  <MonkeyDrone> well the 0.0.1 trello list go longer V453000 xD
08:45:44  <V453000> more but smaller tasks
08:45:58  <V453000> as long as done list is growing, shit is good
08:46:27  <MonkeyDrone> hehe, that is true indeed
08:46:36  <MonkeyDrone> improvements all around
08:47:03  <V453000> trees are probably the biggest task now
08:47:09  <V453000> and after that vehicles
08:47:12  <V453000> then it's gg
08:47:22  <V453000> foundations are actually halfway done
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09:11:08  <V453000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BREmcgEWmQU
09:17:19  <Alberth> totally accurate :)
09:18:27  <V453000> I wonder if any general ever deployed a penis formation
09:25:34  <Alkel_U3> https://youtu.be/SwYd5cRlROE
09:40:03  <MonkeyDrone> sweet, coloring trees right?
09:41:14  <MonkeyDrone> lol le penis formation, epic
09:41:48  <MonkeyDrone> people have way too much creativity time :P
11:20:02  <V453000> eh mainly the new tree models
11:20:13  <V453000> atm arctic and tropic trees look like boxes
11:20:14  <V453000> literally
11:20:18  <V453000> for toyland that's ok
11:20:28  <V453000> but for at least arctic I would like to make some nice bushes and shit
11:39:58  <argoneus> how are train friends doing
11:40:04  <V453000> FUCK
11:40:09  <argoneus> o-oh
11:40:51  <V453000> rekin shite
11:57:30  <MonkeyDrone> watching Mr.Right, good movie
12:48:07  *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit []
12:58:00  <V453000> after effects project: 35.3 MB ... after effects project zipped: 722 kB
12:58:02  <V453000> ..
13:00:27  <MonkeyDrone> black magic
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13:18:09  <Alberth> nah, just loads of almost duplicate files :)
13:18:26  <V453000> it is one .aep file
13:19:37  <Alberth> ok, one file with loads of almost duplicate sections :)
13:19:42  <V453000> :)
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13:21:34  <Alberth> could be duplicate for a good reason, eg for fast access, but also very possible, just being too lazy to make an efficient layout and/or clean up shit before save
13:22:12  <Alberth> or shit reasons like "let's store everything in xml"
13:25:19  <V453000> or both :P
13:26:21  <Alberth> yep, for maximal useless storage requirements :)
13:26:52  <V453000> if you saw how much memory Ae is using you would probably continue with some reasonable arguments how shit it is ;P
13:30:13  <MonkeyDrone> lol
13:30:16  <MonkeyDrone> enlighten us
13:31:14  <V453000> well 50GB piling up on your hard drive as "cache" or "scratch disk" is common, for BRIX my project takes 18GB RAM to load XD
13:37:47  <MonkeyDrone> ......damn, running some epic TBs of SSDs?
13:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause> BUT! XML IS HUMAN READABLE!
13:40:00  <MonkeyDrone> XML is for hoomans
13:40:06  <MonkeyDrone> pro humans do assembly
13:40:24  <V453000> nah I just clean the cache often
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13:45:13  <Alberth> MonkeyDrone: actually, XML is designed for machine-machine communication
13:46:30  <MonkeyDrone> Alberth, neat bit of information
13:46:56  <Alberth> it's in the original XML definition :)
13:47:16  <MonkeyDrone> hehe, well i have never played with xml so completely inthe dark with it
13:48:34  <Alberth> try writing a xslt transformation, and you're cured forever from thinking writing code in xml is a good idea :p
13:48:58  <Alberth> xslt == xml to xml rewriting
13:49:34  <Alberth> so you have 3 xml languages at the same time: input xml language, output xml language, and the xslt transformation language for defining how input goes to output
13:52:07  <MonkeyDrone> sounds like a lot of fun Alberth :D
13:52:56  <Alberth> nah, xslt is much better than fun :p
13:53:41  <Xaroth|Work> it's somewhere in one of the nine layers of hell
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14:08:29  <MonkeyDrone> grrr at times like these i wish i was using linux
14:08:58  <MonkeyDrone> so much easier to find text inside thousands of text based files with a simple grep command
14:09:09  <Alberth> ag, or ack :)
14:09:17  <Xaroth|Work> windows can also search in files
14:10:34  <Alberth> you can't beat  "ag some_text"   :)
14:11:37  <MonkeyDrone> how do i get ag o.o
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14:15:26  <Alberth> package is the_silver_searcher-0.31.0-1.fc23.x86_64   here
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14:15:51  <Alberth> ack is pretty much the same though, and works well too
14:16:25  <Alberth> likely your packages have similar names
14:18:30  <Alberth> package name is  ack.noarch    a Perl script iirc
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14:24:28  <V453000> cack?
14:29:49  <Alberth> http://beyondgrep.com/why-ack/
14:42:47  <Alkel_U3> MonkeyDrone: simmilarly I got used to Linux utilities so I just install cygwin where I have say on what can be installed
14:43:12  <Alkel_U3> if it doesn't run linux already :-)
14:43:52  <MonkeyDrone> one day i will switch to linux, one day ;p
14:47:03  <Wolf01> Stupid bot, I had to restart it because it failed to identify and tried to change nick back (failing) and identify the random nick 23424 times
14:47:28  *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
14:47:59  <Samu> 2000, 2047
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14:59:54  <ElleKitty> *chirps a happy little mew at MonkeyDrone!*
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15:02:17  <ElleKitty> MonkeyDronez
15:02:39  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, hello hello
15:02:51  <MonkeyDronez> how are you doing ElleKitty ? :D
15:03:26  <ElleKitty> Did your shadow still remain?
15:06:36  *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@84.255.166.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:09:08  <ElleKitty> Oh there goes the shadow. You can take over now!!
15:10:15  <ElleKitty> ...when ya notice it.
15:11:06  <MonkeyDronez> hehe sorry
15:11:13  <MonkeyDronez> looks like someone restarted my pc at home >.<
15:11:23  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, been playing DF, that game is HARD
15:12:02  <ElleKitty> Ooooh. Well, while other hard games have a learning cliff, DF comes with a learning overhang, so they say.
15:12:32  <Xaroth|Work> the overhang of DF makes EVE's learning curve look like an ant hill...
15:12:32  <ElleKitty> When other difficult games have nightmares at night, those nightmares are about DF
15:12:53  <MonkeyDronez> DF is a pain in the ass is all
15:12:59  <MonkeyDronez> damn dwarves, so hard to work with
15:13:00  <ElleKitty> A little =P .
15:13:31  <Alkel_U3> I am very happy to have talked you into it MonkeyDronez >:-)
15:13:59  <MonkeyDronez> Alkel_U3, ElleKitty is the one who got me pumped up for DF :P
15:14:00  <ElleKitty> As someone once said, "DF is a little bit like Sims, except instead of Sims you got a horde of manic-depressive alcoholic dwarves, and everything is trying to kill them, including the dwarves"
15:14:02  <MonkeyDronez> i hate you both
15:14:13  <MonkeyDronez> all that time sink into only hating dwarves and still going with it
15:14:19  <Alkel_U3> it always feels refreshing to see the frustration of another newbie :P
15:14:29  <Alkel_U3> ah
15:14:39  <Alkel_U3> ElleKitty: then, hi five :D
15:15:05  <ElleKitty> Alkel_U3 I told MonkeyDronez to what levels the DF simulates. I also gave MonkeyDronez the required reading for any learning DF played, the Boatmurdered, but I dont know if he read that yet.
15:15:26  <Alkel_U3> Boatmurdered is pure gold
15:15:36  <MonkeyDronez> have not had time to read
15:15:42  <MonkeyDronez> have been super busy with dwarves :P
15:17:15  <ElleKitty> And I told him what you can DO in the game by just using its raw mechanics, which another game would never allow. Such as, one guy invented a trap where 50 bunnies are released at the enemies, and those 50 bunnies nibble and nibble and nibble until the enemies collapse from raw pain. Sometimes bunnies would nibble for months. And someone found this slow, so they improved the design by setting bunnies on fire upon release.
15:18:03  <Alkel_U3> I heard about the fiery version :-)
15:18:17  <ElleKitty> I saw the thread where both were outlined, yes.
15:18:43  <ElleKitty> Sadly, Planepack was recently fixed... Starting with .40 or 0.42
15:19:08  <Alkel_U3> oh, that gave me an idea for the minecart grapeshot device. I could fill it up with coal instead of pitchblende and set it on fire before shooting
15:19:25  <ElleKitty> My gods, dwarves will bend the universe to make that one very special sock of their live... Or go mad trying.
15:19:27  <MonkeyDronez> you guys are insane :P
15:20:21  <ElleKitty> Alkel_U3 It doesnt have the reusability until you can reload the coal into the cart. You could even reset the cart using the rollers, but you couldnt rightly put the burning coal back in
15:21:10  <Alkel_U3> ElleKitty: if I have enough coal I don't need to - the burning coal may as well stay where the goblins are :-)
15:21:19  <ElleKitty> You COULD load the cart with serrated glass blades before launching the cart at the foes.
15:21:43  <Alkel_U3> or put it out - it takes a while to burn, no?
15:21:53  <Alkel_U3> yeah, that's also possibility
15:22:15  <ElleKitty> It still doesnt scale well. Goblins are infinite, which is good when you want to mine goblinite, but eventually you'll run out of burning coal to fire, plus the coal on the ground will simply eat at your fps.
15:22:58  <Alkel_U3> I didn't say it would be practical - I just want to try it :D
15:23:07  <MonkeyDronez> howm uch fps loss are we talking
15:23:14  <Alkel_U3> hella
15:23:26  <ElleKitty> I personally dont like the goblin attacks very much. They're fun and all, but one single part turns me off; when the battlefield later needs to be cleaned up. Oh gods.
15:23:57  <Alkel_U3> blood, guts and vomit everywhere :-)
15:24:00  <ElleKitty> And then later when I want to smelt goblinite ore, I cant pick it out from the other iron stuff that I actually personally made and want to keep
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15:25:12  <ElleKitty> MonkeyDronez, DF combat is INCREDIBLY brutal. Both in Fort more and Adv mode. Just... if you do the Adv mode sometime... and get someone stunned enough that you get a guaranteed hit on them... Punch them across their teeth, and watch what happens.
15:25:25  <ElleKitty> Hint: Exactly what you'd expect.
15:25:30  <MonkeyDronez> heh
15:25:33  <MonkeyDronez> i'm stilli n Fort mode
15:25:51  <ElleKitty> What was the size of your embark anyway?
15:26:37  <MonkeyDronez> standard 7
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15:26:44  <MonkeyDronez> starter embark setup
15:26:48  <ElleKitty> I've been playing micro forts a lot (those are 1x1 embarks) because fps, and because everything fits into one screen without scrolling, but you probably started with the recommended 4x4
15:27:10  <ElleKitty> *waves hello to frosch123*
15:27:44  <ElleKitty> Where did you embark anyway? Like, whats in your fort area? Desert? Forest? Mountain? Do you have a river?
15:27:55  <MonkeyDronez> i've no idea whats 1x1 or 4x4 embark
15:28:12  <ElleKitty> Maybe he has one of those suicide cliffs, Alkel_U3?
15:28:54  <Alkel_U3> ElleKitty: I've no idea, but most importantky, it's not evil :-)
15:29:45  <ElleKitty> MonkeyDronez, 1x1 is the smallest unit on the embark screen. Every 1x1 can hold exactly one biome in it. If you play a larger field, such as 4x4, then your playable area may end up containing multiple biomes in it. It is useful having multiple biomes, because they all come with their different goodies.
15:29:46  <frosch123> hoi
15:29:46  *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:29:56  <ElleKitty> frosch123: I'm Temmi
15:30:01  <Alberth> hola
15:30:12  <frosch123> temmi from undertale?
15:30:13  <MonkeyDronez> yeah i'm on 1x1 i guess, i've only one biome
15:30:33  <frosch123> or was that spelled differently?
15:30:34  <ElleKitty> Because Temmies go "hoi, im temie"
15:30:43  <ElleKitty> They spell it differently every time
15:31:25  <ElleKitty> MonkeyDronez, do you have to scroll the map in the compass directions to see all of it?
15:31:40  <MonkeyDronez> very little of it
15:32:03  <MonkeyDronez> i'm usually at the edge, can't dig towards one side
15:33:37  <ElleKitty> Every world map tile, is 16x16 region tiles
15:33:54  <ElleKitty> Every region map tile, is 48x48 tiles once you enter the game and start playing
15:34:25  <Alkel_U3> well, I'm gonna take the dwarves' example and head out for beer. Have fun. Loads of it :P
15:34:25  <ElleKitty> So a 4x4 embark would be 192x192 tiles that you could count while playing the game
15:34:31  <ElleKitty> Oooh
15:34:56  <ElleKitty> Have a lot of fun, Alkel_U3! And dont forget to admire the furniture!
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15:35:53  <MonkeyDronez> Alkel_U3, enjoy!
15:36:18  <ElleKitty> MonkeyDronez You could still tell what you got on map =P . I almost even asked you to stream it so we could watch
15:36:19  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, one step at a time :D I still need to get the basic hang of the game. Still trying to learn how to work the workshops
15:36:23  <Alkel_U3> ElleKitty: the tavern is aboveground outside and the furniture is... -furniture- at most. Fun will be easy, it's on top of fortifications, so you could say it's a cliff :D
15:37:03  <Alkel_U3> I hope nothing makes me dodge down from it
15:39:59  <MonkeyDronez> Alkel_U3, off to the tavern with ya!
15:42:35  <ElleKitty> How DF patch notes look (can confirm personally)
15:42:49  <ElleKitty>  -Babies don't start strapped with a knife. -Stopped vampires from pinning their crimes on babies and children.-Stopped zombie cats from adopting dwarves.-Stopped ghosts from maintaining secret identities.-Stopped dwarves from trying to clean their own missing or internal body parts.-Made strangulation take less time.-Demons masquerading as gods will try a little harder.-Adjusted value of bees
15:43:53  <MonkeyDronez> lol , nice
15:44:03  <MonkeyDronez> some of those make a lot of sense :P
15:44:12  <MonkeyDronez> game is definitely not for the weak of heart
15:44:31  <ElleKitty> I mean.... http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/079/917/bdb.png
15:45:15  <MonkeyDronez> lol, nice to have artistic fans for the game eh xd
15:47:15  <ElleKitty> Actually there is a lot of DF art. People even manage to draw the procedurally generated monsters up. Some of them are... things of nightmares.
15:49:16  <ElleKitty> Here... Take a look at this masterpiece. From an actual item in the game.
15:49:35  <ElleKitty> http://93.87.225.232:256/tumblr_o3dr54OM3x1qm2v2no1_500.jpg
15:51:25  <ElleKitty> In other words, welcome to the DF community, MonkeyDronez
15:53:02  <MonkeyDronez> da foook o.o
15:53:08  <MonkeyDronez> that's a real thing ingame?
15:53:59  <ElleKitty> In someone's game, yes. There are no static artefacts in the game.
15:55:32  <ElleKitty> The text is a screenshot from the game. The picture was made by a drawfag
15:56:20  <MonkeyDronez> aaaah
15:56:27  <MonkeyDronez> so the game generates random stuff too x.x
15:56:29  <MonkeyDronez> nice!
15:56:58  <ElleKitty> Other than the base item and unit types, everything is randomly generated
15:59:41  <MonkeyDronez> boggles my mind on how you even program this madness x.x
16:00:25  <ElleKitty> https://66.media.tumblr.com/14f7dfd97681c7c21b72b5b79e72fea3/tumblr_o9uw0wMZDZ1qd42cpo1_1280.png
16:00:36  <ElleKitty> "the dwarf fortress bug tracker remains a source of infinite joy
16:00:36  <ElleKitty> "
16:02:27  <ElleKitty> And this... https://66.media.tumblr.com/13d5cebe24f2375b7a53bf26d74ee5fa/tumblr_o97fdcI6pX1v4g7elo1_1280.png
16:03:14  <MonkeyDronez> lol @ pregnant drinkers, brilliant
16:03:24  <MonkeyDronez> poor country side and burning things :D
16:04:42  <ElleKitty> Burning things:
16:04:42  <ElleKitty> https://67.media.tumblr.com/f0d61e72bd9f8489507166b7e1a5b291/tumblr_o97iyiJOJF1tdp9svo1_500.png
16:04:42  <ElleKitty> https://66.media.tumblr.com/a6c2b6ecb594d6403f2d3af0cdf3afe3/tumblr_o97iyiJOJF1tdp9svo3_1280.png
16:04:42  <ElleKitty> https://66.media.tumblr.com/27adfb0fbb5c46ab651ed1b0a619a4bd/tumblr_o97iyiJOJF1tdp9svo4_1280.png
16:04:42  <ElleKitty> https://65.media.tumblr.com/ecc31eeeaadafffe73c84a8446020060/tumblr_o97iyiJOJF1tdp9svo2_1280.png
16:05:31  <ElleKitty> Spilt a lava across the entire playable map, turned the map into charcoal, no survivors
16:07:41  <ElleKitty> Aaaah! But nevermind that, I found the one that I wanted to share in the first place.
16:07:47  <MonkeyDronez> lol, damn
16:08:21  <ElleKitty> http://93.87.225.232:256/tumblr_n8eq602cgR1rp1409o1_1280.png
16:09:23  <MonkeyDronez> lol, ouch
16:11:13  <ElleKitty> I think this happens partly because the flowers are so tiny (tiny contact area, means very sharp) and because their material properties are not initiated (so maybe they assume default vallues for, i dont know, rock) and their falling speed might not be initialised either, so they fall at arbitrary speed drawn from garbage data from memory
16:11:52  <MonkeyDronez> heh, so they just wern't programmed properly :D
16:12:07  <MonkeyDronez> well with 10 billion things in the game, you miss a thing or a few :P
16:13:37  <ElleKitty> This probably happened when they were still new. Maybe it's been fixed already, maybe not. The game is in alpha stage, so it's a bit of a brutal free-for-all in there.
16:14:10  <MonkeyDronez> it's been in alpha for 10 years, hasn't it
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16:14:52  <ElleKitty> It has been, yes
16:17:15  <MonkeyDronez> aye, i hear 10 year anniversary coming up
16:17:19  <MonkeyDronez> everyone's nerding out ;D
16:17:34  <MonkeyDronez> well the game is still 43% complete apparently x.x
16:17:38  <MonkeyDronez> how big can that gaem get x.x
16:18:25  <ElleKitty> I think that DF is a type of the game which is very worthwhile playing while it's still in alpha. There will be many little things that will be added and removed, and the experience will change.
16:20:00  <MonkeyDronez> aye, i can imagine things keep changing overtime, affecting gameplay differently every major update
16:20:11  <ElleKitty> I dont know what those features will be, but I remember Minecraft. Booster Carts for giving ultra speed to minecarts; boativators, which serve as eelevators both up and down; the east/south rule, which caused you to be set on fire if you touch certain corners. The famous (0,0) chunk which spawned enormous amounts of monsters. Also the mob grinders, and Thomas the Sheep god.
16:20:27  <ElleKitty> Whoever didnt already experience these during the developement, has missed out
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16:22:36  <MonkeyDronez> :P well it's a long jounrney and plenty more to play with in time :D
16:24:45  <ElleKitty> Oh, one more cause I cant resist. Also from someone's game: http://93.87.225.232:256/enDp5Hg.png
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16:26:37  <MonkeyDronez> hahaha damn
16:28:05  <ElleKitty> The drawing is accurate: The book is cruel and concise.
16:29:20  <MonkeyDronez> soon i shall bask in the glory of fixing my neigbors laptop so no DF tonight :(
16:29:35  <ElleKitty> What do you need to fix?
16:29:56  <Alberth> windows, what else?  :p
16:30:12  <MonkeyDronez> lol Alberth, why you hating on windows
16:30:38  <MonkeyDronez> Alberth, although their wifi driver keeps crashing from what I hear. *hear*. They are complete pc plebs, so I will know more when I have a look at it.
16:30:41  <Alberth> it's not hate, the OS is just utterly useless to me
16:30:53  <MonkeyDronez> Got a message from my sister that the neighbor's 'sound' port isn't working
16:31:05  <MonkeyDronez> and asking me on whatsapp how she can fix it
16:31:35  <MonkeyDronez> like I can do some voodoo shit sitting 30 KM away from the laptop :D
16:31:37  <ElleKitty> If you need to replace the Windows, remember to upgrade it
16:31:40  <ElleKitty> To Windows 7
16:31:50  <MonkeyDronez> it's windows 8, i'll upgrade it to Windows 10 :P
16:32:13  <Sacro> If you can find somewhere to buy it
16:32:16  <ElleKitty> Fuck that shit. Dont install Win10. Also, it's not an upgrade but a downgrade.
16:32:36  <MonkeyDronez> usually i get paid a few bucks to fix neighbors stuff, but he had twins a few months ago and he's always strapped for cash, doubt gonna get paid anything this time, yarrrr
16:32:54  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, pfffft, hater :P I love W10, works brilliantly :D
16:33:13  <Alberth> spyware, for free :p
16:33:27  <MonkeyDronez> Sacro, you can still upgrade for free from W8 to W10 by enabling assistive technologies in windows :P once that is done i can disable assitive tech support :P
16:33:44  <MonkeyDronez> it's too late for spyware, the NSA has everything on all of us :P
16:33:52  <ElleKitty> Win10 installed a rootkit on my friend's computer. I knew it would, so I told him not to do it, he said "What do you know" and installed it anyway. Now he cant install anything other than Win10 because of the rootkit.
16:34:05  <Sacro> That wasn't Win10
16:34:10  <MonkeyDronez> rootkit o.o
16:34:19  <MonkeyDronez> how did he get a rootkit installed through windows 10
16:34:41  <Sacro> It's probably as easy as in most other versions of Windows
16:34:47  <MonkeyDronez> i've been throwing everyone under the W10 bus for a while now, never had any issues
16:34:47  <ElleKitty> The friend later came to his senses and tried to install Windows 7 again. He couldnt, was directed to install Win10 instead
16:35:25  <Sacro> Probably just needs to delete all partitions on the HDD
16:35:51  <MonkeyDronez> Sacro, exactly, just needed to wipe out the windows partition and the secondary partition it creates where it stores all the information related to the OS
16:35:52  <ElleKitty> Ugh, dont advise others to install Win10. You think you're doing them a favour, and are probably feeling good about it, but you really really arent.
16:36:10  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, perspective and subjective :D
16:36:14  <ElleKitty> Sacro: And clear the BIOS/UEFI cache, I assume
16:36:20  <MonkeyDronez> we two sit on the opposite sides of this continnum scale
16:36:46  <Sacro> ElleKitty: doubt BIOS/UEFI changes are required
16:37:19  <ElleKitty> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cf87YtZW4AAi-YO.jpg
16:37:19  <Sacro> ElleKitty: what? keep them on 7/8.1?
16:37:28  <Sacro> And have them eventually run out of support?
16:38:03  <ElleKitty> You can always switch before support runs out, cant you? Maybe even after it runs out.
16:38:11  <MonkeyDronez> lol, i would never keep them on W8, W8 is not a user friendly experience
16:38:28  <Sacro> Yeah but why not switch sooner, like whilst it's free?
16:38:29  <MonkeyDronez> I can adapt easily but to normal people, w8 interface would be a complete nightmare
16:38:53  <MonkeyDronez> and I don't see the big fuss about W7, hehe, W10 is W7, with better looking GUI :P
16:39:09  <MonkeyDronez> double click file and it installs things, that's all that is to me, which is windows ;D
16:39:19  <Sacro> I liked 8, the lack of a start menu was bliss
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16:39:26  <Sacro> And I like 10, because I don't need to use the start menu
16:39:37  <ElleKitty> Sacro Cause it wants to install a rootkit/bootsector to my machine, and it wants to keep track of what I installed and wants to ask online if I'm supposed to have it or not
16:39:47  <MonkeyDronez> Sacro, I got used to it pretty fast, but W8 made it not easy for people who didn't know the basic options windows has
16:39:50  <ElleKitty> And I, in turn, dont want it to
16:40:05  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, sounds like you bought a locked in system.
16:40:42  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, I've heard of laptops locked into an OS, never looked it up myself. Read only 1 article in passing, maybe it is true.
16:40:56  <ElleKitty> Windows 8 interface: https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/e/e6/Aolwin8.jpg
16:41:06  <glx> Sacro: "real" start menu is on right click ;)
16:41:21  <MonkeyDronez> well AOL is still making millions off dialup internet, i say they win :P
16:41:29  <MonkeyDronez> real start menu is Ctrl+x :D
16:44:27  <ElleKitty> I didnt buy a locked system. My friend is the one who had Win7, then Win10, then couldnt go back to Win7 anymore. When I was buying my machine, they asked me "Do you want Win8 installed, or FreeBSD?" and I said "FreeBSD" and he said "Okay, so Wind... FreeBSD? Are you sure?" "Yeah." "But no one uses FreeBSD." "Yeah, but no matter which you give me, I'm upgrading to Windows 7. It would be a waste to replace Windows 8 when someone has
16:44:27  <ElleKitty> been babysitting the install for two hours." So I was given FreeBSD, I tried it out a bit when I came home, but really ended up replacing it with Win7.
16:44:45  <MonkeyDronez> hmmm i wrote a chapter of a short story i'm writing, i rewrote it a while ago, its a horrible rewrite, time to rewrite it ;D
16:45:18  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, so you have that Windows 8 key? :D
16:45:29  <MonkeyDronez> sitting there doing nothing :D
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16:46:06  <ElleKitty> What would I do with a Win8 key?
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16:46:57  <MonkeyDronez> ah, wait a minute
16:47:05  <MonkeyDronez> was the price of hte laptop same with W8 and without it?
16:47:32  <ElleKitty> I cant remember asking.
16:48:06  <MonkeyDronez> hmmm, cause usually laptops with pre-windows installed have the serial key programmed into the BIOS / UEFI system itself
16:48:11  <MonkeyDronez> you can use some programs to read
16:48:35  <ElleKitty> How does this affect the price?
16:48:51  <glx> you pay for preinstalled windows usually
16:48:55  <MonkeyDronez> wihtout windows, you coudl save about 
16:48:58  <MonkeyDronez> on the final price
16:49:17  <MonkeyDronez> or , something around that,
16:49:26  <MonkeyDronez> laptops without windows are cheaper :D
16:49:48  <ElleKitty> Well, I got a FreeBSD, plus just the essential hardware. I only bought what goes into the tower; I even kept the scratched and yellowed tower frame from 2003
16:50:22  <MonkeyDronez> there is a dirt cheap 0 laptop here, 5th gen i3, 500gb hdd,4gb ram. I don't know if it's worth buying or i should put in some more $$$ and get a 6th gen with ssd :D
16:50:50  <MonkeyDronez> ElleKitty, ah, i thought you were talking laptop
16:51:00  <MonkeyDronez> well nevermind me then :D
16:51:51  <MonkeyDronez> i gotta bail for now, brb 15 mins
16:51:57  <MonkeyDronez> home i'm cominggg
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16:54:46  <andythenorth> o/
16:55:09  <ElleKitty> Hello ^_^ and welcome back
16:55:10  <frosch123> hoi
16:55:14  <Alberth> o/
16:55:20  <ElleKitty> Mehoy
16:55:21  <ElleKitty> Minoy
16:55:33  <andythenorth> is cat
16:57:40  <ElleKitty> *pets cat*
16:57:59  <Alberth> we do have a kitty today
16:58:41  <ElleKitty> Alberth: Nyuu?
16:58:44  <Samu> 4gb ram too low for today standards
16:59:13  <Samu> hdd and 4 gb ram
16:59:15  <Alberth> sort of a cat, isn't it?
16:59:18  <Samu> that battery
16:59:23  <Samu> will die instantly
17:00:05  <ElleKitty> Samu 4GB has need too low for some 5-6 years already, and 16GB was too much, and still is (unless you are into graphics rendering or servers)
17:00:39  <Samu> 8 GB is ok
17:00:41  <Alberth> 16GB is a pretyy nice disk cache :)
17:00:58  <Samu> my rig got 16 gb, my parents got 12 gb
17:01:09  <glx> useful for VMs too :)
17:03:50  <ElleKitty> I'm on 8GB now. When I start reaching the limit, it's my healthy reminder that I'm using too much. And I'm the person who uses 3ds Max, Photoshop, 3D Coat, up to three media players, supporting toftware, server, and Firefox. Firefox has 200+ tab at any time, 600+ tabs when I didnt clean them in a while.
17:04:17  <ElleKitty> I say that 8GB proved rather enough, even when all of these things enabled at the same time.
17:05:09  <Alberth> likely it's enough indeed
17:07:23  <ElleKitty> 16GB is only needed if you want to set yourself for the next 10 years or something, or if you have money to burn. You realistically need 16GB only if you have some uncommon needs for it.
17:10:24  <V453000> I have 24 and I am running into constant issues whenever I launch max or After Effects
17:10:33  <V453000> 6GB Vram ain't enough either for blender
17:10:58  <V453000> how much ram do games require nowadays?
17:12:10  <Alberth> too much :p
17:13:17  <ElleKitty> V453000, no matter how MUCH RAM you have, you're going to find a way how to waste it. Such as doing just one more "Subdivision" or "Turbosmooth" level (in blender and max). As a Max user, I can say that that amount isnt needed if you work efficiently.
17:14:02  <ElleKitty> I could waste you unlimited gigabytes of RAM by adding more Turbosmooth subdivs, because the RAM requirement grows exponentially, but even more, I like my scenes to be fficient
17:14:49  <V453000> well my scene has 20M polys
17:14:58  <V453000> add textures and you are fucked
17:15:22  <V453000> "X is not needed" is heavily related to your workflow and what you are doing
17:17:14  <ElleKitty> Alright, well tell me what makes your scene 20M polys. If it's particles or subdivisions, I call inefficiency.
17:17:30  <V453000> fuckload of objects
17:17:58  <ElleKitty> I'd have to see before I knew for sure
17:18:10  <V453000> XD
17:18:12  <V453000>  /care
17:19:38  <ElleKitty> Of course, of course.
17:20:05  <V453000> on another note, it's the beauty of sprites
17:20:11  <V453000> only result matters, not efficiency
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17:22:40  <ElleKitty> Efficiency matters for your own personal growth as an artist. If you're inefficient with your models, then you still need to learn how to make them optimal. Basically...
17:22:55  <MonkeyDrone> o/ ola
17:23:01  <MonkeyDrone> ElleKitty, back
17:23:06  <V453000> I am not saying it is completely useless, nor am I making retardedly inefficient models
17:23:25  <supermop> V453000: don't worry about wasting the computer's time
17:23:31  <ElleKitty> I used to make models... then slap textures onto them... and they would look good enough. But I decided that this was wrong from me, because textures hide any flaws in models. So now I make a good model, and when I'm pleased how it stands by itself, I also add textures.
17:23:53  <V453000> well supermop with realtime projects it is a problem to consider
17:24:03  <supermop> better to wastes 100s of hours of computer's time than 10s of hours of human time optimizing
17:24:09  <ElleKitty> Basically, you're fixing your models by throwing more resources at it... instead of fixing your models
17:24:12  <MonkeyDrone> so who's taking the project of modeling me like kate from titanic? :D
17:24:20  <supermop> the human time is higher value and can be doing other things
17:24:39  <V453000> ElleKitty: aren't normal maps way more efficient than more geometry?
17:24:41  <supermop> and the computer won't ask for vacation or overtime pay
17:24:44  <V453000> computing power wise?
17:24:53  <supermop> i think so
17:25:16  <ElleKitty> supermop You sound like someone coming from programming. But for a visual artist like me, learning is its own goal, and reward, in addition to other goals, and rewards
17:25:17  <supermop> making in model what can be done in maps always seems to melt my computer
17:25:33  <supermop> ElleKitty: i don't know how to program at all
17:25:52  <ElleKitty> I know
17:25:59  <MonkeyDrone> echo 'hello world';
17:26:09  <MonkeyDrone> you are now elite supermop
17:26:58  <supermop> as an architect i spend my 'optimization' time optimizing the use of the space, the client's dollars, and the emotional impression of being in the space
17:27:12  * MonkeyDrone sips tea watching artists debate the exitenstial crisis of modelling efficiency or how a pleb percieves artists talking art
17:27:24  <supermop> whereever possible i do not spend that time making things easier on my workstation
17:28:18  <supermop> an extra few hours of a render farm chugging away at something is time i can be on the phone, researching product specs, sketching in my sketchbook
17:28:29  <V453000> +1
17:28:51  <supermop> also the render farm tends to chug away while i am asleep not sitting staring at my monitor
17:29:24  <supermop> but
17:29:50  <MonkeyDrone> supermop, your render farm is at your own place or you use online servers?
17:30:03  <MonkeyDrone> ah nvm
17:30:07  <supermop> the completionist in me will get sidetracked at times modelling individual stones in a cobblestone gutter or ashlar wall
17:30:16  <frosch123> just ask andy. andy is our expert in spending time on making stuff faster
17:30:32  <V453000> XD frosch123 just won the internet for tonight
17:30:39  <supermop> cutting holes in a sheet of metal instead of a map with transparency
17:31:20  <supermop> so i have to catch myself to stop me doing insane things sometimes
17:31:49  <V453000> ElleKitty: show us some of your art :)
17:32:04  <MonkeyDrone> hmmm, i can draw circles in paint if you want guys want to see that :P
17:32:32  <supermop> i am not showing anyone any of the spaces im working on atm - so ugly with zero budgets
17:32:43  <supermop> not going to even go on our firms websites
17:32:51  <supermop> one of them is kind of fun tho
17:34:50  <ElleKitty> We wouldnt know, cause you wont show us.
17:35:02  <supermop> MonkeyDrone: here we pay others in Taiwan or Vietnam
17:37:03  <MonkeyDrone> supermop, ah outsource, good ol tactics
17:37:31  * MonkeyDrone art masterpiece http://i.imgur.com/2AOlLeB.png
17:37:40  <MonkeyDrone> u digg homies?
17:37:47  <V453000> 10/10 sick
17:37:48  <ElleKitty> MonkeyDrone I do, this IS art
17:38:13  * MonkeyDrone pats himself on the back for a good job. *thanks the room*
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17:38:44  <ElleKitty> There was once a camera crew that came to a museum to report on an art expo; they lowered their heavy equipment on an unused pedestal and went to arrange everything with the manager.
17:38:45  <andythenorth> Wolf01: o/