Log for #openttd on 24th September 2016:
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06:31:51  <andythenorth> o/
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07:03:36  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
07:03:57  <Alberth> hi hi
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07:37:34  <andythenorth> using train length 5 everywhere is very logical, but very boring also
07:37:37  * andythenorth playing ottd
07:38:42  <andythenorth> bbl
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08:47:51  <argoneus> good morning train friends
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09:01:51  <Wolf01> o/
09:03:08  <Alberth> moin
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09:19:28  <Wolf01> o/
09:19:34  <Wolf01> Quak too
09:19:49  <frosch123> ciao
09:20:21  * andythenorth playing ottd
09:20:31  <andythenorth> needs some alternative types of road
09:20:41  <Wolf01> Really?
09:21:01  <andythenorth> yeah
09:21:08  * andythenorth wonders if anyone has ever considered that
09:21:40  <Wolf01> It would be cool
09:22:48  <Alberth> new FIRS!
09:23:14  <frosch123> new bugs :)
09:23:29  <frosch123> the translator credits contain "es_MX" :)
09:24:16  <andythenorth> new FIRS!
09:24:38  <andythenorth> frosch123: o_O bug
09:25:23  <frosch123> <- i thought it was using that list
09:25:29  <frosch123> but maybe some regex fails
09:26:20  <frosch123> hmm, no, apparently we duplicated the language names to yet another script :p
09:26:53  <Alberth> :p
09:28:01  <andythenorth> constants :P
09:28:07  <andythenorth> we should fetch them from the network
09:28:34  * andythenorth has to maintain constants across 3 vehicle grfs, for cargo colours and such
09:28:35  <andythenorth> boring
09:28:40  <frosch123> well, let's see what the next release says :)
09:30:15  <Alberth> make a constant sub-project :p
09:30:46  <frosch123> "constant" is an abbreviation for "constantly changing"
09:33:17  <Alberth> maybe we should have "real constant" and "moving constant" as type
09:33:49  <Alberth> but perhaps there are actually not many real constants
09:35:48  <andythenorth> frosch123: seems I’d need to make changes here for roadtypes?
10:05:32  <andythenorth> hmm
10:05:47  <andythenorth> maybe I should just hack at it, instead of trying to make a nice set of commits
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10:25:28  <Alberth> that usually works better as a first attempt
10:26:02  <Alberth> once it works, you can make a new set of commits which improves on nice-ness :)
10:38:23  <andythenorth> maybe I should write a reference grf (nml file) first
10:38:32  <andythenorth> then keep hacking until it stops failing to compile
10:38:38  <andythenorth> and hope all the tests pass
10:40:33  <andythenorth> maybe nml should ship with reference grfs for each feature :P
10:40:41  <Wolf01> <Alberth> maybe we should have "real constant" and "moving constant" as type <- maybe you are looking for "variable"?
10:40:42  <Wolf01> XD
10:41:55  <Alberth> that changes a little too fast, perhaps :)
10:42:40  <Alberth> it often can't even decide what value to have in a single program run :)
10:42:49  <andythenorth> global properties :P
10:43:01  <andythenorth> mutable, but not variables
10:43:47  <andythenorth> ‘context specific constants’ :P
10:43:53  * andythenorth has spent too long around python web frameworks
10:49:08  <Alberth> Likely, these things exist at more places :)
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12:36:26  <Samu> i present to you my coding skills ^_^
12:36:28  <Samu>
12:37:01  <Samu> terraform decision for ship depot placement
12:39:15  * andythenorth seeks a ‘very high’ industry setting
12:39:22  <andythenorth> at map gen time
12:41:27  * andythenorth solves that
12:41:33  <andythenorth> bigger map, higher water setting
13:02:23  * andythenorth needs a grfid for Unsinkable Sam
13:02:51  <Wolf01> frosch123, could you give me an hand with this patch?!AgUFeOGLNNfVhb9ZJPHngM3G3LY0Lg
13:06:44  <andythenorth> FIRS ‘extreme’ is much better with very high industry count
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13:28:53  <Wolf01> I made the level land tool work as expected, the raise/lower tools are too fast but they work well to make smooth hills if you keep the mouse button pressed for less than a second
13:30:48  <Wolf01> Still have problems drawing the affected area for the cursor, but I can't change the _thd.selstart as I use it to retrieve the height of the tile from I started to draw
13:33:21  <Wolf01> The good thing is that now I can terraform a 256^2 map with a good looking terrain in less than a minute
13:36:20  <Samu> I got a dilema
13:36:46  <Samu> building canals, the real one
13:36:53  <Samu> should it auto-terraform
13:37:29  <Samu> what about drag and drop building of canals?
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13:38:43  <Samu> meh, while at it, should it auto-build-lock on inclined slopes when drag-and-drop building canals?
13:38:45  <Samu> lel
13:39:11  <Wolf01> Why not?
13:40:11  <Samu> that would make it too easy
13:41:04  <Samu> but it's an interesting idea
13:41:21  <Wolf01> We introduced CTRL+build station to ease station walking, why not even auto-lock on slopes while building canals?
13:41:24  <frosch123> Wolf01: remember the previous tile in some global var, and only execuite if tiles differ?
13:42:03  <andythenorth> locks are crap
13:42:07  <andythenorth> super crap
13:42:17  <Wolf01> Thank you frosch123, I'm trying that right now, as I really need to fix the tile hightlight data
13:42:34  <andythenorth> ships should just be able to go up the slope
13:42:39  <andythenorth> implied lock
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13:44:30  <frosch123> Wolf01: i guess you can also change selstart, if you save the height in some other variable
13:44:42  <Wolf01> andythenorth, if you don't want locks just build canals at the same height ;)
13:44:52  <andythenorth> I just lower land
13:44:57  <andythenorth> fuck canals :P
13:45:05  <andythenorth> oops swearing in the channel :(
13:45:06  <andythenorth> bad andythenorth
13:45:08  <Wolf01> Everything at sea level
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13:45:49  <Wolf01> Pfff, you can't even beat V swearing :P
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13:47:04  <Samu> it would kind of make the "build lock" obsolet
13:47:11  <Samu> the button
13:47:39  <Wolf01> Nah, you always need to build locks in other places
13:47:54  <Samu> just build canal on slope, and it auto-places lock
13:47:56  <andythenorth> locks annoy me
13:48:00  <andythenorth> waste of 3 tiles
13:48:35  <andythenorth> ho ho, nml *does* ship with example nml files :)
13:48:39  <andythenorth> great
13:49:59  <Samu> gonna toy with the idea of auto-lock when building canal on inclinedslope
13:50:03  <Samu> brb
13:54:17  <Wolf01> frosch123, how do I set the _thd.selend from the current tile and the _terraform_size?
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14:21:49  <andythenorth> hmm
14:23:41  <Alberth> o/
14:25:53  <andythenorth>
14:26:18  <andythenorth> fails
14:26:48  <andythenorth> I think a list entry is either not initialised, or being given the wrong length as a count somewhere
14:28:36  <andythenorth> properties[0x12] doesn’t seem to exist
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14:31:04  <andythenorth> looks like l154 in should be properties = 0x13 * [None]
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14:31:35  * andythenorth smells a mess in this
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14:47:43  <andythenorth> ach
14:47:53  <andythenorth> frosch123: apparently I’ve compiled a roadtypes grf
14:48:11  <andythenorth> is there any sane way I can inspect it?
14:58:03  <Alberth> grfcodec -d ?
14:59:31  <andythenorth> well that worked
15:00:44  <andythenorth> loading the grf in ottd triggers a nice assert though
15:00:47  <andythenorth> no surprise
15:02:33  <Alberth> hmm, shouldn't it just ignore unknown sprite numbers?
15:05:46  <andythenorth> dunno :)
15:11:40  <andythenorth>
15:12:01  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^
15:12:37  <Wolf01> :)
15:13:40  <andythenorth> from the nfo, it appears to have defined _something_ correctly
15:13:51  <andythenorth> it’s basically a clone of most of newgrf railtypes
15:14:03  <andythenorth> with the feature number set to 12
15:14:04  <andythenorth>
15:14:53  <andythenorth> with the grf loaded, openttd now asserts with the following message
15:14:54  <andythenorth>  Message: Assertion failed at line 133 of /source/openttd/src/newgrf.cpp: feature < GSF_END
15:15:03  <andythenorth> which is promising, and perhaps a place to start? o_O
15:15:52  <Wolf01> I might need some new terraform icons... at least 5
15:17:33  <andythenorth> is there one needed for ‘random’ o_O
15:17:44  <Wolf01> Maybe later
15:17:44  <andythenorth> or ‘restore rivers’ ? o_O
15:18:29  <Wolf01> Nah, but a "select start and end point for river" might be useful
15:18:46  <Wolf01> Even for valleys/mountains
15:20:25  <andythenorth> ‘carve a river valley'
15:20:30  <Wolf01> Yup
15:24:09  <Wolf01> Embanked rivers and such
15:24:24  <Wolf01> <- I'll implement some of these
15:24:52  <Wolf01> Specially the kamnet ones
15:25:16  <Wolf01> Also, now with just 5 tools the editor is finally usable
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15:29:40  <andythenorth> is this scenario only, or also in game?
15:30:04  <Wolf01> Editor only, too powerfull to be used in game
15:30:56  <Wolf01> Added the patch to the post, if you want to try it
15:31:44  <Wolf01> Now I must prepare and go out :P
15:33:01  * andythenorth compiles
15:35:32  <Wolf01> I left out almost all the safety checks, I just put on to not crash at the first action :P
15:35:45  <Wolf01> But I don't know how it will work with unmovables
15:35:58  <Wolf01> Maybe it destroys everything
15:37:27  <andythenorth>       'WID_ETT_PAINT_LOWER_LAND'; did you mean 'WID_ETT_LOWER_LAND'?
15:37:38  <andythenorth> got a few errors like that, make then bails out
15:37:57  * andythenorth might be missing some symbols or something
15:38:59  <Wolf01> Uhm
15:39:09  <Wolf01> It skipped some files
15:40:29  * andythenorth tries make clean
15:40:50  <Alberth> make mrproper   to get back at unconfigured state
15:41:19  <andythenorth> interesting
15:41:23  <Samu> am I smart?
15:41:24  <Samu> TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis(GetInclinedSlopeDirection(slope)))));
15:41:43  <Wolf01> Tortoise generates corrupted patches
15:42:32  <Samu> i want to move north
15:43:05  <goodger> moving north is generally a good idea unless you live in the southern hemisphere
15:43:47  * andythenorth does not live in the north
15:43:49  <Samu> get inclined slope direction gives me the direction that goes up
15:44:27  <Samu> if that direction could be southwards or northwards, but i only want to go north
15:44:28  <Alberth> given that you move north, you just know what to add to x & y
15:44:45  <Samu> oops my english
15:44:52  <Samu> that direction could be southwards or northwards, but i only want to go north
15:45:06  <Alberth> AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis( ... ))     is of course just bollocks
15:45:31  <Samu> diagdirtoaxis returns the axis of that slope
15:45:46  <Samu> axis to diagdir always returns me the southern direction
15:45:59  <Samu> reversediagdir brings me the northern direction
15:46:04  <Samu> i am smart-1!
15:46:49  <Alberth> why not just test the diagdir, and add the right x&y ?
15:48:31  <Samu> i'm adding it to a ClearedObjectArea thing
15:48:36  <Samu> coa->area = TileArea(TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis(GetInclinedSlopeDirection(slope))))), axis == AXIS_X ? 3 : 1, axis == AXIS_Y ? 3 : 1);
15:48:39  <Samu> the full line
15:49:19  <Samu> it's a lock
15:49:32  <Wolf01> andythenorth, fixed the patch should work now
15:49:34  <Samu> tile is the inclined slope, slope is inclined
15:54:15  <Samu> i'm trying to auto-lock when placing canals
15:54:34  <Samu> but drag & drop is messing me up
15:56:04  <Samu> drag building canals that go over an inclined sloep, will build a lock automatically
15:56:52  <Samu> it's jut that locks are FAT buildings and the next tile that it is gonna be placing a canal will be giving me trouble
15:57:00  <Samu> it's just*
15:58:34  <andythenorth> Wolf01: compiling again
16:02:11  <Wolf01> Worked or borked?
16:02:26  <andythenorth> hmm
16:02:32  <andythenorth> well it’s running now
16:03:10  <andythenorth> ha ha
16:03:25  <andythenorth> yeah, you need to listen to key repeat at a lower rate :)
16:04:36  <Wolf01> I think I need to listen to "pt.x mod TILE_SIZE" = 0
16:04:57  <Wolf01> Now it triggers even if you move the pointer by 1 pixel
16:05:15  <Wolf01> But I'm not sure if that will work
16:08:54  <Alberth> compute the tile, if it's the same as last time, ignore
16:09:16  <Wolf01> It's a tile area
16:09:29  <Wolf01> You can raise even a 8x8
16:10:01  <Alberth> testing at exactly 0 sounds very fragile
16:11:54  <Samu> i'm still trying to learn how to use ClearedTileArea correctly
16:12:06  <Samu> oops ClearedObjectArea
16:14:41  * andythenorth wonders if Road Hog will ever get other rosters :P
16:15:26  <Alberth> any point in making other collections of trucks?
16:16:36  <andythenorth> american style?
16:16:40  <andythenorth> visually
16:21:13  <andythenorth> gameplay, not sure
16:21:43  <andythenorth> first roster is quite brit-ish
16:21:51  <andythenorth> but the trams are from all over the world, or invented
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16:24:25  <andythenorth> Alberth: suggest a grfid for Unsinkable Sam? o_O
16:25:32  <Alberth> SAM1  ?    USA1
16:25:51  <andythenorth> USS1?
16:25:51  <Alberth> ATN1
16:26:05  <andythenorth> ATN? o_O
16:26:14  <Alberth> andy the north  :)
16:26:40  <Alberth> USS sounds nice, points towards submarines :)
16:29:49  <Wolf01> USC? c = cat
16:31:12  <frosch123> FIS3
16:32:11  <andythenorth> considered that :)
16:32:19  <andythenorth> Unsinkable Sam is Not FISH
16:32:29  <andythenorth> hardly recursive :P
16:33:26  <Alberth> doesn't need to be recursive, as it never sinks :)
16:34:17  <andythenorth> ha
16:34:21  * andythenorth wants to make ships
16:34:32  <andythenorth> I have paid my NotRoadTypes debts for today
16:36:17  <Wolf01> Right, tomorrow we can start doing the grf code
16:36:28  <andythenorth> assuming the grf isn’t nonsense :P
16:36:48  <Wolf01> What did you put in it?
16:36:58  <Wolf01> Just to know what should I expect
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16:38:58  <andythenorth> single roadtype, with label “ROAD”
16:39:07  <andythenorth> and some railtype sprites
16:39:43  <andythenorth> format follows railtypes exactly right now
16:40:23  <Wolf01> I think the outcome should be "2 roadtypes and 1 railtype (if tram grf loaded)", right?
16:40:53  <Wolf01> *ltrailtype
16:40:58  <andythenorth> not from the current test grf :)
16:41:04  <andythenorth> but that can be extended
16:41:53  <andythenorth> also I can’t seem to persuade nml to use the roadtypetable functions, so there is some nml work to do there :P
16:42:04  <andythenorth> ‘unreachable’ :P
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16:43:03  <Wolf01> I had to move a variable declared in the middle of the code because it seem that in c++ functions can't look below themselves, maybe it's the same problem?
16:43:57  <andythenorth> nah, in this case I think it’s that I need to make an explicit call to some functions in, but I can’t find where
16:52:49  <peter1138> "functions can't look" ... k
16:53:04  <peter1138> (you can't use stuff if it isn't declared yet)
16:53:28  <andythenorth> the functions are declared, but nothing calls them afaict
16:53:43  <andythenorth> and I can’t figure out what to cargo cult from railtypes to get them called
16:54:52  <Wolf01> Nah, peter1138 is right, I'm too used to higher level languages where doesn't matter if you declare a variable after or before a function ;)
16:56:01  <andythenorth> specifically ‘roadtypetable_list’ and some others are not reachable
16:56:02  <andythenorth>
16:56:05  <andythenorth> nice line number :P
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17:06:48  <andythenorth> any way to check if a grfid is known 55535331?
17:06:58  <andythenorth> or is in someone’s ‘reserved’ range?
17:07:02  <andythenorth>
17:11:03  <frosch123> the "1" is stupid :p
17:11:31  <Wolf01> BBL
17:11:43  <frosch123> "USRA" (US Roads Addon) is the nearest
17:14:36  <andythenorth> frosch123: propose a not-1 alternative? o_O
17:14:46  <andythenorth> 0?
17:15:16  <frosch123> do you plan to do a second one? :p
17:15:55  <frosch123> use "3", noone does 3 versions of the same grf
17:16:08  <frosch123> "3" is probably unique for all leading chars :p
17:17:15  <andythenorth> it’s embarassing that I have to use this to convert from ascii :P
17:17:16  <andythenorth>
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17:21:53  <Alberth> print([chr(x) for x in "USRA"])    :)
17:22:10  <frosch123> ah, "3" is used by those one-grf-per-vehicle guys
17:23:18  <glx> printf("%08X", 'USRA'); should work too
17:23:59  <peter1138> tggggg
17:24:05  <peter1138> erm
17:31:09  <Alberth> just use "USRA"  in the grfid :)
17:36:11  <Samu> grrr stupid tile area loop doesn't work like i think
17:37:36  <Samu> tile area, just adds the tiles
17:37:55  <Samu> the loop doesn't care for which directions they were added
17:38:46  <Samu> it adds them at the opposite direction of how I dragged some times
17:39:48  <Samu> north to south - everything is fine
17:39:53  <Samu> south to north - assert
17:40:16  <Samu> so i see now why that swap existed on the bridge command
17:40:45  <Samu> TILE_AREA_LOOP is noob
17:45:26  <Samu> i dragged from tiles 8893 to 8891, tile area loop begins at 8891, hmmm must think
17:50:21  <Samu> okay, so this means i'm always building towards the south diag direction
17:50:26  <Samu> even if im not
17:51:56  <Samu> coa->first_tile = TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(axis)));
17:51:58  <Samu> will test
17:53:36  <Samu> nice, it werks!
17:53:54  <Samu> so this means i don't need diagdir for anything
17:54:51  <Samu> dayum, auto locks while building canals, looks pretty
17:56:02  <Samu> this might actually be the best idea yet, Wolf01
17:56:23  <Samu> makes building canal lines so much easier
17:57:15  <Samu> feels like building a straight road over all types of terrain
17:57:54  <Samu> problem might be that canals don't have foundations
17:58:33  <Samu> and locks are still fat buildings, it may not go over all slopes
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18:32:14  <andythenorth> frosch123: so I can’t use 3? o_O
18:34:37  <Alberth> copper ore refinery looks great andy
18:35:26  <frosch123> sure :p
18:41:46  <andythenorth> Alberth: it’s fun eh? :)
18:42:09  <Alberth> it is :)
18:42:32  <Alberth> playing in a hot country with maglev trains :)
18:42:39  <Alberth> and BB
18:42:44  <andythenorth> need to do a copper mine
18:42:46  <Alberth> 1 train is enough :p
18:42:50  <andythenorth> default sprites are a bit boring
18:43:02  <Alberth> I agree on that, compared to your sprites
18:44:32  <andythenorth> let me know if you get inspired for a Busier Bee :P
18:44:34  <andythenorth> with more goal types
18:48:26  <Alberth> ticket seems to suggest a city bee, or a pax bee :)
18:49:53  <Alberth> although a combination of pax and industry could be nice
18:50:06  <andythenorth> found an arbitrary industry and demand service is the one I would like to add
18:50:14  <andythenorth> after a while I always end up funding industry
18:51:53  <Alberth> :o   I almost never do that
18:52:49  <Alberth> well, failure to find a supplier for an industry could work :)
18:53:17  <Alberth> although maybe it would be too simple to let the player decide where to put it
18:53:55  <andythenorth> yeah
18:54:15  <andythenorth> I originally thought it might be an actual goal, to have player fund the industry directly
18:54:21  <andythenorth> but now I think BB should do it
18:54:34  <andythenorth> can it provide a dialog, with an option: fund yes/no
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18:55:23  * andythenorth considers letting playing invest €xxx in industry development
18:55:40  <andythenorth> but the GS chooses what and where [randomly or by some rules]
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20:00:24  <andythenorth> hmm
20:00:39  <andythenorth> sea vs. river ships is a crap distinction
20:00:41  * andythenorth removes that
20:00:58  <Wolf01> You make all river ships?
20:02:39  <Supercheese> ships is ships
20:03:10  <andythenorth> all same speed ships
20:03:19  <andythenorth> no pissing around with slower / faster on river / sea
20:03:36  <andythenorth> Wolf01: my current game needs a cogwheel tramway
20:03:38  <andythenorth> or cable tram
20:03:44  <andythenorth> 16 tile mountain or so :P
20:04:45  <Wolf01> Indeed, you need to introduce draught for ships, you can have slow ships on sea too
20:05:54  <Wolf01> My current game needs half and double slopes
20:06:01  <Wolf01> Even vertical walls
20:07:29  <Wolf01> And proper bridges/tunnels... maybe I want locomotion
20:14:25  <andythenorth> :P
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22:30:44  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:58:39  <Samu> hi
23:58:49  <Samu> I just made build lock button obsolete :o

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