Log for #openttd on 5th October 2016:
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00:45:30  <drac_boy> hi
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00:46:12  <drac_boy> sorry about asking this sort of thing now but I had to common was it probably to have a light locomotive or any dmu that only had two driven axles out of the four total?
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01:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the german SVTs (late-1930s) had only few driven axles
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01:07:57  <Eddi|zuHause> there are lots of variations for those
01:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say that until very recently, it was fairly common in MUs that only half of the axles are driven
01:11:14  <Eddi|zuHause> but for engines, it's pretty uncommon to have undriven axles since at least the 1950s
01:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few exceptions, generally for axle weight reasons
01:12:50  <sim-al2> DMUs, especially when engines were lower powered, tended to use single axle drive when possible because transmitting power to both axles in a bogie requires a more complicated design
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01:14:08  <sim-al2> hmmm
01:15:38  <sim-al2> To make for that, some of those had two engines
01:16:17  <sim-al2> The Budd RDC, and the various 50's and 60's British DMU classes are good examples
01:20:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the first SVT was built basically like this: it was a 2-part DMU with two diesel-electric engines. the front bogey housed a diesel engine, and had unpowered axles, the middle bogey was the connection between the two wagons, and had two electric engines, which drove the axles individually, and the end bogey had another diesel engine and unpowered axles
01:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> a later series had this reversed, and some didn't have a connecting bogey, but two sets of bogeys on each wagon
01:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> there were also 3-part and 4-part versions
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01:22:32  <drac_boy> sorry didn't noticed it froze up again till I tried reply to sim-a12 :p
01:22:45  <drac_boy> anyway as I was going to say... sim-a12 ah geeze I didn't think of the weight in transferring from inside to outside axle - good point, I'll have to remember that too :)
01:23:24  * drac_boy is kinda curious as to why oftc seem to like to just stuck up at rare times but mehs
01:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that's on your end
01:23:49  <sim-al2> I know that with Japanese DMUs, they avoided that until the development of the big 12 cylinder engine for the intercity DMUs required it
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01:24:26  <drac_boy> well I dunno about that as the other irc window (not oftc server tho) is still working fine the whole time
01:24:45  <drac_boy> sim-a12 really? interesting, I only know just a bit about the KIHA units but not a lot else
01:25:45  <drac_boy> oh and theres that modern tilting dmu set for operation all the way up north (I forgot the name of that island its on) .. electrification was too costly and same for trackwork so what else but to have a tilting dmu to shave minutes off there and there
01:26:10  <drac_boy> don't think I've heard of tilting dmus in serious operation anywhere else but I could be wrong tho (given my poor attempts when it comes to non-english sites)
01:26:11  <sim-al2> Up to the 60's many units were still being built with the old DMF 17 design, which dated back to the 30's and had reached it's development potential
01:26:24  <sim-al2> I think the max output was around 180hp
01:27:03  <sim-al2> There's tilitng DMUs
01:27:26  <sim-al2> Kiha 261, 281, 283 were, but in recent years it's been disabled
01:27:51  <sim-al2> There's a couple of other DMUs used in west Japan that still do though
01:28:07  <drac_boy> 180hp? hmm and if going by two engines per unit .. thats 360hp per carriage which probably isn't too bad for lighter lines
01:28:40  <sim-al2> Yeah, but still there were packaging issues
01:28:46  <drac_boy> I can see that
01:28:57  <Eddi|zuHause> tilting DMUs aren't THAT rare
01:29:23  <sim-al2> Yeah, German VT612 and it's predecessors
01:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> there was also the ICE-TD
01:29:50  <sim-al2> The air-conditioners in use then needed a generator set, but unfortunatly that needed a good amount of space
01:30:02  <Flygon> QR Tilt Train has Diesel tilting push-pull. Teechically a DMU. :U
01:30:15  <drac_boy> also sim-a12 I recall seeing some dmu consist that was basically a mix of 1-engine and 2-engine units because of the 1-engine one sharing its belly space with something else
01:30:17  <Flygon> But the series is more famous for it's Electric set
01:30:26  <sim-al2> In the intecity DMU classes, the driving cars had it mounted behind the cab, and could power 3 cars
01:30:27  <drac_boy> might had been uk but my memory isn't being helpful now
01:30:46  <sim-al2> But for the Kiha58, it had to be under the floor, which meant removing an engine
01:31:45  <drac_boy> ahh yeah ac systems too ... at least the split systems could usually work with dual-engine units as at least half of the ac system was actually on the roof instead
01:32:19  <sim-al2> Those single engine cars were ok on level lines, but using them even with the twin engines on graded lines meant slow speeds and sometimes even getting stuck
01:32:22  <drac_boy> or in the case of usa .. just use a long chassis to make space (cue budd rdc .. even although a bit of its exhaust system sat on roof instead)
01:32:54  <drac_boy> hmm yep I can imagine that being no fun :-s
01:32:57  <sim-al2> Japan has a smaller loading guage, especially rural lines
01:33:30  <sim-al2> Also I think these air conditioners were standardized with EMUs
01:33:35  <sim-al2> At least partially
01:33:56  <sim-al2> The radiators on the RDC are roof-mounted
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01:34:14  <sim-al2> There's a space in the middle of the car where the coolant lines and exhaust go through to the roof
01:34:16  <drac_boy> sim-a12 yeah I think it often was the early years that had the presence of like 3-8 ac pods on roof per unit .. the amount seem to partially depend on the interior type (especially commuter vs non-commuter)
01:35:01  <sim-al2> Yeah, the first-class cars were the first to be air-conditioned, but the plan was to eventually have fully air-coniditoned trains, especially in the warmer areas
01:36:06  <drac_boy> mm :)
01:36:19  <sim-al2> The earlier air conditoners were fairly small, and so several would be installed, often with the ventilator housings still in place
01:36:25  <sim-al2> Hence all the bumps on the roof
01:36:57  <drac_boy> btw about mixing 1-/2-engine I think it also depend on what kind of drivetrain was in use too
01:37:29  <sim-al2> Later on they moved to larger units, which combined with the removal of the ventilator housings leeds to a smooth roof with a central hump
01:38:42  <sim-al2> Yeah, the 181 series uses a large 12 cylinder engine, which developed a lot more power
01:39:22  <sim-al2> 500 hp in early versions, 660 hp in later versions
01:39:25  <drac_boy> for the budd rdc it was one engine per truck with direct drive so its not a surprise that mixing 1- or 2-engine (or in some rare instances an engineless rdc that still had the roof hump) units together as the only negativity was in mixing too much unpowered coaches on hilly routes
01:39:49  <sim-al2> There were no engineless RDCs
01:40:06  <sim-al2> There was a single-engine version with no cabs
01:40:10  <drac_boy> well from factory maybe but some railroads actually stripped them out later on .. no engine but the hump was still there
01:40:37  <drac_boy> and yeah most people think of the budd rdc as an all-seat unit but there were actually other types including all-baggage (no seats!)
01:40:49  <sim-al2> In fact, Budd threatened to not honor the warrenty if the railroad pulled non-powered coaches with RDCs
01:41:11  <sim-al2> Although apparently they could pull a coach or two fairly well
01:41:41  <sim-al2> Don't forget the post office version
01:42:05  <drac_boy> heh well I think budd couldn't do much about it really .. I've found 50-60's dated photos with budd rdc being dead-in-tow behind a PA-1 or so .. to be detached at a certain station and the hydrodrive engaged to motor off on its own side route as the PA-1 kept going on straight
01:42:32  <sim-al2> In later years with some of the early commuter railroads, I imagine many ran with dead engine anyway
01:42:48  <sim-al2> That's different
01:43:26  <sim-al2> As long as it's in neutral, it can be pulled without any problems
01:43:42  <sim-al2> In fact, there's even steam pipe fittings
01:43:55  <sim-al2> Although the engines need to be running for lighting
01:44:11  <drac_boy> also later repowers are a bit amusing. I know that via actually had cummins 600hp diesel engines .. talk about being able to get up to 100kph really fast but in reality the bumpy old rails heading toward hudson bay or further north were usually at a much more sedative speed :)
01:44:26  <sim-al2> The operations manual has a section on setting up an RDC for mid-train use like that
01:45:31  <sim-al2> I think the Dallas commuter rail system also has some repowered units
01:46:23  <drac_boy> about dmu with steam lines .. that seem to remind me of uk .. during the transitional years (if you could call it that) there were a lot of electric heated cars with steam pipe pass-thru .. and in some cases even an electric locomotive with no boiler but still carrying a steam pipe nevertheless
01:47:14  <sim-al2> The RDC setup is interesting, because it can actually use the steam to heat the car, as well as keep the engines and water tanks warm
01:47:32  <sim-al2> Useful for layover protection in cold weather
01:48:18  <drac_boy> of course there are always express-specific boxcars (or goods van in uk english) with steam pipes just so they could be placed behind locomotive rather than at the tail of train
01:50:34  <drac_boy> at least its a good thing they didn't try fit fish vans for 160kph operation hehe ;)
01:50:40  <drac_boy> (imagine the smell)
01:50:44  <sim-al2> Seems to be a fairly common feature of dedicated cars, espeically the various express cargo, RPOs, etc that used to be common here
01:51:01  <sim-al2> Oh yeah I imagine those smelled great....
01:52:16  <sim-al2> It seems that the UK had short wheelbase wagons far longer than anywhere else
01:53:00  <sim-al2> That seems to have been the biggest speed restriction, beyond that fact that so many cars lacked automatic brakes...
01:55:45  <drac_boy> yeah
01:57:28  <drac_boy> btw as I recall the uk deltic also was tested with vacuum brakes and its major defect was rather apparent at the high speed braking attempts
01:57:47  <drac_boy> not too surprised with that
01:58:50  <sim-al2> Yeah, vaccum has more limited storage capacity, and requires larger cylinders and reservoirs
01:59:17  <sim-al2> It made sense with steam enginers as a steam-driven ejector has no moving parts and creates vaccum easily
01:59:38  <sim-al2> But with diesel and electric engines a seperate vaccum-pump is needed
01:59:56  <drac_boy> true. I think it was only during the excursion era that some steam locomotives did have air brake refitted in parallel
02:00:22  <drac_boy> (but maybe I am wrong, I only recall that the modern regulations for mainline running with certain carriers caused the air brake requirement)
02:00:41  <sim-al2> From what reading I've found, it seems that high capacity pumps were needed to charge and recharge vaccum-braked trains quickly
02:01:14  <sim-al2> I think almost all modern rolling stock is air-braked, with only older freight equipment in some countries still vaccum
02:01:32  <sim-al2> Even in the UK from the 60's onward the coaching stock is air-braked
02:01:53  <sim-al2> The Mk1s had vaccum and dual-braked versions IIRC
02:02:38  <drac_boy> btw not related to brakes but there was one very amusing "issue" with the early deltic runs ... train goes into long tunnel under throttle and cue the boiler shutting down ... apparently the engine literally globbed all the air around the roof at that time
02:03:17  <sim-al2> I think it's possible to build a vaccum brake system with equvialent performance to an air-brake system, even at high speeds, but the lower reservoir storage will become a problem with repeated applications and release
02:03:31  <drac_boy> hmm yep
02:04:09  <sim-al2> A lot of those UK diesels had air brakes on the engine itself, even if the train was setup with the vaccum system
02:04:46  <sim-al2> Since air pressure was needed for control anyway
02:05:11  <drac_boy> btw I didn't think I would find a photo of the book online but this is what I have on my shelf interesting thing re the driver waving at the photographer :)
02:05:24  <sim-al2> Yeah, I can see that the Delitics would draw very large amounts of air
02:05:28  <drac_boy> yeah air-engine/vacuum-train is something I think I have heard quite a number of times
02:08:13  <Flygon> Ahh, vacuum train :3
02:08:18  <Flygon> The pre-EMU MU solution!
02:08:21  <Flygon> Shame about the rats
02:08:54  <sim-al2> And the seals
02:09:22  <drac_boy> also I know there were some small railroads (usually narrow gauge, no surprise) through europe that eventually had these rare "brake conversion" wagons inserted between locomotive and the normal train .. even in one case the locomotive was electric but with vacuum brakes (probably didn't want to gimp with a historic locomotive) so the first wagon actually had a pumps setup that converted this into air for the several coaches
02:09:54  <sim-al2> Yeah, I've read that some of the UK 3rd rail railcars could do that
02:10:09  <sim-al2> Like the MLV (a motorized baggage car)
02:10:29  <sim-al2> Seems like a interesting setup to make work
02:13:39  <drac_boy> hmm well dunno if direct links works but sim-a12 about special wagons .. would you like this? its basically a new-ish high speed diesel locomotive but with the older streamline steam heated wagons .. so cue the speciality built steam car which numbered to quite a few
02:13:55  <sim-al2> Oh looks like India still uses vaccum brakes on a large scale
02:13:59  <drac_boy> and yep thats why theres a lot of small smokes near the ground as thats the steam :p
02:14:05  <sim-al2> And South Africa
02:14:19  <sim-al2> oh wow, LRC
02:14:38  <sim-al2> I didn't know they used those with the older equipment
02:14:55  <drac_boy> and its not just the lrc .. these are much newer .. but still using steam eh??
02:15:06  <drac_boy> talk about finding a f40ph with no electric heat :P
02:15:23  <sim-al2> Heh, makes it quieter though
02:15:37  <drac_boy> well if its the pre-genset f40ph then you're correct
02:15:43  <sim-al2> I though the steam-heated cars were used with the ex-CN stuff until the end
02:15:57  <drac_boy> amtrak had the unofficial nickname of Screamer for them because the big v12 engine was noisy with longer trains at station platform
02:15:58  <sim-al2> Yeah, I think the gensets first appeared in the 90's
02:16:03  <sim-al2> v16
02:16:09  <drac_boy> oh .. right .. :)
02:16:38  <drac_boy> also as the generator was off the engine that limited the f40ph's consist length during cold weathers unless you doubleheaded them
02:16:54  <sim-al2> P40 and P42 actually do the same thing, but they are a lot quieter
02:17:35  <sim-al2> Yeah, power is diverted away from traction to power the cars, so the more cars, the lower the traction power...
02:17:44  <drac_boy> btw there is a certain short period of via trains that I like for some reason .. it was sorta the "just a few months after creation of via" so you could see very weird mixes
02:17:53  <sim-al2> And when it gets cold, even worse
02:19:06  <drac_boy> CP RS, CN F5B, VIA F7A, budd streamlined baggage then coach, blue VIA coach, etca
02:19:23  <sim-al2> wow
02:19:26  <drac_boy> basically anything in the passenger yard they "just throw it into the station platform to heck with it!"
02:19:40  <drac_boy> very crazy mixes they had for a short time especially the rare RS units
02:19:48  <sim-al2> Sounds like the Amtrak approach :p
02:20:02  <drac_boy> well for amtrak it was called "rainbow era" which was fitting enough
02:20:13  <sim-al2> Of course, I don;t think Amtrak ever had any Alcos
02:20:25  <drac_boy> anyway sim-a12 this was a lot of fun but I kinda should go to bed soon tho sorry? :)
02:20:32  <sim-al2> Ok gn
02:20:41  <drac_boy> hmm alco and sec..
02:21:07  <sim-al2> Took Amtrak a long time to find a standard locomotivw with the F40PH
02:21:08  <drac_boy> they indeed do have a handful of alcos :P
02:21:22  <sim-al2> Lots of interesting semi-failures
02:21:23  <drac_boy> two S2 too .. must had been for busy station shuntings
02:21:35  <drac_boy> anyway goodnight now .. talk again another time ;)
02:21:41  <sim-al2> night
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07:02:27  <DaniDroid> hola
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12:42:06  <Samu> hi
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13:14:58  <Samu> i just found something funny
13:15:32  <Samu> openttd listing in alphabetical order puts it like this: MogulAI, NoCAB, NoNoCAB
13:15:43  <Samu> neverming, i'm stupid
13:16:03  <Samu> lol, it's correct, it's M, not N
13:16:25  <Samu> NogulAI
13:16:29  <Samu> lel, i'm sorry
13:38:28  <Samu> I found a "not-really-a-bug"
13:39:07  <Samu> the finances window lists train, road, aircraft, ship in this order
13:39:22  <supermop> good morning
13:39:25  <Samu> but everywhere else the order is train, road, ship, aircraft
13:41:41  <Samu> game settings also got this switched
13:41:53  <Samu> train, road, aircraft, ship
13:42:24  <Samu> for breakdowns, and max no of vehicles
13:44:18  <Samu> is it worth "fixing"?
13:47:22  <supermop> probably not
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14:26:33  <Samu> just started testing the new versions of WmDOT and AIAI
14:28:04  <Samu> road vehicles AIAI v97, trains AIAI v97, aircraft AIAI v97, Original ships WmDOT v14, NPF ships WmDOT v14, YAPF ships WmDOT v14
14:28:28  <Samu> let's hope my system doesn't crash
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15:59:51  <argoneus> good afternoon train friends
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16:42:24  <supermop> yo
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17:07:55  <argoneus> I was always wondering
17:08:04  <argoneus> is there a particular reason openttd uses squirrel and not lua/python?
17:08:12  <argoneus> like, is there more to it than "preference"
17:13:38  <Rubidium> object oriented and relatively small
17:13:52  <Alberth> a working implementation helps too
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17:18:42  <argoneus> bleh ._
17:18:43  <argoneus> .
17:25:23  <Rubidium>
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17:37:46  <Alberth> hola
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17:39:16  <andythenorth> o/
17:39:21  <frosch123> hoin
17:39:41  <Alberth> o/
17:41:56  <andythenorth> cat
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17:48:53  <Samu> why did i read that?
17:49:26  <Samu> whatever... what's a garbage collector?
17:49:30  <Alberth> something with curiosity being stronger than you?
17:51:00  <Alberth>    no pretty pictures, unfortunately
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18:05:43  <supermop> yo andy
18:05:47  <supermop> how have you been
18:07:54  <andythenorth> yair
18:07:59  <andythenorth> all the thigns
18:08:09  <supermop> comprehensive
18:09:39  <Samu> well, uh... i give up trying to understand what's a garbage collector
18:10:01  <andythenorth> don’t they just sweep up dead objects?
18:10:04  <andythenorth> and free memory?
18:10:07  <Alberth> it's not a simple subject, I am afraid
18:10:09  * andythenorth never learnt
18:10:37  <andythenorth> surely it’s something like checking there are no inbound pointers to an allocated range
18:10:39  <andythenorth> or something
18:10:42  <Alberth> it is, but you must understand what a dead object is, then :)
18:10:45  * andythenorth never programmed
18:11:15  <Alberth> oh dear, who wrote all that Python code then? :o
18:11:29  <andythenorth> that’s not programming
18:11:34  <andythenorth> that’s devloloper
18:12:23  <Samu> i remember i was able to cause openttd to crash with tons of NoCABs and executing a sendmap to a player joining the game, and someone mentioned it was the garbage collector
18:12:34  <Samu> but it got lost
18:13:49  <Samu> i couldn't replicate the bug :(
18:13:54  <Samu> the crash
18:14:13  * andythenorth has never ever used a formal debugger
18:14:27  <andythenorth> more proof that is devloloper
18:14:54  <Samu> i was always a memory error
18:14:56  <Samu> it
18:15:46  <Rubidium> a garbage collector is really easy; imagine cleaning food and whenever you know you're not going to use the part of the food anymore throw it away. This is effectively manual "garbage" management. On the other hand, just keep cleaning stuff and once in a while pick out everything that you're not going to use anymore. This is like garbage collecting. With the former you always need to know whether you kee
18:15:52  <Rubidium> p using it, with the latter you do not. However, with the former you always know how much time there is between peeling two potatos whereas with garbage collection you do not. After all, you might not collect the garbage between peeling the two potatos, but occasionally you have to because the place becomes unwieldy and then the time between peeling those two potatos becomes really large
18:17:02  <Rubidium> ofcourse the intricacies are more complicated, but the general idea is really simple
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18:20:47  * andythenorth should add garbage collectors to Road Hog
18:21:25  <Alberth> there is waste cargo?
18:21:25  <andythenorth> I like this one
18:21:50  <Alberth> haha, camouflaged :p
18:22:00  <andythenorth> Ape!
18:22:12  <andythenorth> my three wheel truck is still broken
18:22:14  * andythenorth must fix
18:23:10  <Samu> what is common between lzma and garbage collector?
18:23:24  <Samu> an ai garbage collector
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18:23:43  <Alberth> they can be executed by a cpu
18:23:45  <Samu> they don't like each other very seldomly
18:23:52  <Samu> and crash openttd server
18:24:57  <Samu> they run in paralel?
18:25:29  <Alberth> sounds possible at least
18:25:38  <Alberth> save is done in a different thread
18:26:11  <Alberth> maybe lzma isn't thread-safe?
18:26:17  * andythenorth could play MP game, or work on something like Road Hog
18:26:24  <andythenorth> or have dinner and go to sleep :P
18:26:34  <Alberth> all good options :p
18:27:02  <Alberth> MP game may be a bit late-ish, unless you have a ready map
18:27:24  <Samu> trying to remember...
18:27:40  <Alberth> @logs
18:27:40  <DorpsGek> Alberth:
18:27:46  <Alberth> Samu:  ^
18:28:16  <Samu> think it was a crash on "free", something related to freeing something from memory twice
18:28:36  <Samu> ok
18:29:21  <supermop> andythenorth: sv?
18:32:05  <Samu> hmm, crash would happen on ntdll i think
18:32:28  <andythenorth> supermop: I probably can’t give it enough attention tonight :)
18:32:38  <supermop> fair enough
18:32:44  <Alberth> ah, I remember seeing that here, and elsewhere, but ntdll is not part of openttd
18:32:51  <supermop> i am at work, so i probably shouldn't
18:33:16  <andythenorth> if we want to win that SV save, we need about 5 people playing
18:33:20  <andythenorth> otherwise not a chance :)
18:33:24  <supermop> haha
18:33:55  <supermop> that little valley is a pain to fit vehicle factories into
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18:36:25  <Samu> ah, free heap crash on ntdll
18:36:32  <Samu> what's a heap?
18:37:04  <Samu>
18:37:08  <Samu> yeah, it was something liek this
18:37:52  <supermop> i want to play some kind of game where no factories are randomly on top of a 6000 ft uninhabited plateau
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18:38:26  <supermop> and all the carnegies have built their steel mills as far from ore and coal as possibel
18:38:28  <andythenorth> supermop: that’s the best place for them
18:39:16  <supermop> i probably want more of a cartoon urban monorail gif than a game
18:39:42  <supermop> off to see radioheadd and kendrick lamar this weekend
18:42:30  <Samu> RtlpLowFragHeapFree
18:43:40  <Samu> openttd was doing a free, then ntdll would crash on RtlpLowFragHeapFree i rememer
18:44:26  <Samu> sometimes it was lzma doing a free, sometimes it was an ai doing a free
18:44:37  <Samu> can they conflict with each other somehow?
18:45:08  <Milek7_> but free on what object?
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18:47:30  <Samu> i don't know, can't recall
18:47:52  <Samu> it was during a big while loop
18:47:59  <Samu> not really sure
18:48:43  <Samu> can't remember about the lzma one
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18:51:40  <Samu> AI was computing his stuff, and this giant loop was taking place when it crashed
18:52:13  <Samu> as for the lzma, it was happening concurrently at the same time as this loop
18:53:18  <Samu> map was being sent over the network
18:58:06  <andythenorth> supermop: would it be more fun to play on a relatively flat map? o_O
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19:19:19  <Milek7_> hm
19:19:37  <Milek7_> i wonder if there will be people who will want to play with ~15 daylength factor, so one game will be lasting around 3 weeks
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19:29:04  <Wolf01> o/
19:31:33  <supermop> andythenorth: IDK
19:31:52  <supermop> i never really try that but maybe
19:33:48  <Alberth> o/
19:46:40  <Samu> would that increase the autoclean too?
19:46:44  <Samu> time
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19:53:42  <Milek7_> Samu: i think that with 240 companies there won't be need for autocleaning
19:58:16  <Samu> ah, i see
19:58:46  <Samu> you want to make openttd a bit more like an "open world" kind of game
20:02:46  <Samu> how many seconds would be 74*15
20:02:57  <Samu> or is it 72? i forgot
20:03:27  <supermop> what if towns were somehow responsive to cdist?
20:03:54  <supermop> like a town that become some major node, or better connected, will grow faster
20:04:05  <supermop> i wonder if a gs could do that
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20:12:38  <Alberth> supermop: like all the citybuilder scripts?
20:13:14  <supermop> those don't really have any knowledge or care of how well connected a city is
20:13:47  <Alberth> afaik they do react to cargo deliveries
20:14:48  <supermop> a city isolated on a desert island but with a good tram service will grow better than one in the center of the map with a train station that happens to have connections to every other town in the region
20:14:59  <Alberth> ah
20:15:54  <Alberth> hmm, you cannot quite see origin of cargo
20:16:13  <supermop> Alberth: i mean to have growth depend not on total passenger numbers as much as either how well you can travel to other towns, or how many people flow through or change at the station
20:16:15  <Milek7_> GSStationList_CargoPlannedByFrom GSStationList_CargoPlannedByVia
20:16:28  <Alberth> maybe there are calls to look into cdist, originally for AIs, I think
20:16:49  <supermop> like, if we have large towns ABCD in corners of a square
20:16:57  <supermop> and tiny village x in the center
20:17:29  <supermop> most people living in A may want to go to B C or D for work or pleasure,
20:17:54  <supermop> but if they have to change trains at X, eventually a man will open a news stand there
20:17:58  <Milek7_> i'm working on something like that, but i lately don't have time for it
20:18:02  <Milek7_>
20:18:08  <supermop> then another will open a bar
20:18:28  <supermop> and maybe the railway hires more people to work at the station,
20:18:38  <supermop> then they want to live nearby
20:18:52  <supermop> and over time X becomes a major city itself
20:20:32  <supermop> cdist might have 1000 people waiting to transfer at x from a A-C train to a B-D train, but they have no effect on growth as they do not get delivered there
20:21:59  <supermop> maybe a GS could simulate, "this area has large flows through it, this would be a desirable town to live or work in" and then trigger growth there
20:24:57  <supermop> or just "this town has a lot of capacity from it to other towns - commuters will live here"
20:28:05  <Milek7_> i doubt if google translated polish text is readable, but here are some ideas:
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20:31:07  <Milek7_> and if somebody wants to test script:
20:31:19  <Milek7_> currently requires FIRS
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20:40:20  <supermop> its currently usable as a gS?
20:45:39  <Milek7_> yes
20:45:46  <Milek7_> but very early stage
20:47:28  <supermop> looks interesting
20:47:42  <supermop> assume there is not .en translation?
20:48:01  <supermop> the translation of the thread is readable
20:52:06  <Milek7_> script have english lang file (it is only 7 words currently, so no much to translate ;p)
20:55:40  <supermop> what folder do i save a gs into?
20:57:25  <supermop> ok looks good so far
20:57:46  <supermop> architecture 05?
20:57:51  <supermop> 0%?
21:00:02  <Milek7_> delivery of building materials (BDMT) into town
21:00:18  <Milek7_> in future this will be customizable, currently it is hardcoded into config.nut
21:05:17  <supermop> ok
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21:23:16  <Samu> what goes in the head of openttd main devs when they review patches?
21:25:41  <Samu> do i have to go to
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21:42:46  <_dp_> Samu,
21:45:22  <Samu> what is that
21:48:14  <FLHerne> Ooh, that thing!
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21:49:16  <FLHerne> Samu: It's a system to process small pixelated blue balls
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21:55:29  <Samu> what happens to the patches on flyspray?
21:55:45  <Samu> or those in the forum
22:00:54  <_dp_> Every year on April 1 devs randomly select one patch, apply it and release new version
22:04:16  <FLHerne> And every year on April 2nd, I ritually grumble about the ever-growing list of trivial, well-tested, beneficial patches that weren't applied
22:10:57  <Samu> is that true? only 1 patch? :(
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22:18:11  <Samu> what about bug patches :( i posted some of those, but it's been months and nothing happened t.t
22:18:14  <_dp_> well, on leap years it's two...
22:24:57  <Samu> well i got some stuff dealt with, :o
22:25:10  <Samu> but not recently
22:25:32  <Samu> actually, i'm wrong
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22:26:01  <Samu> someone fixed a canal crash very recently
22:26:10  <Samu> but there's more stuff out there :(
22:31:47  <Samu> remko bijker fixed most of my reports
22:32:18  <supermop> Milek7_: it seems the labels for inner city and intercity transit are reversed
22:32:40  <Samu> let me count, lel
22:33:44  <Samu> Alberth (Alberth) - fs#3816
22:33:58  <Samu> Alberth (Alberth) - fs#3798
22:34:02  <Samu> oops wrong
22:34:16  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#3798
22:34:46  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#3819
22:36:09  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#4109 not fixed
22:36:44  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#4222
22:37:16  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#4223
22:38:17  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#4224 I'm surprised this one got implemented
22:42:35  <Samu> Jean-Francois Claeys (Belugas) - fs#4231 the first time I tried to help at fixing something, i think i remember this episode
22:43:59  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#4247 duplicate, but fixed
22:45:11  <Samu> Loïc GUILLOUX (glx) - fs#4251
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22:46:21  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#5523
22:46:30  <glx> wow old
22:47:14  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5524
22:50:15  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5531 not fixed
22:52:10  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5539 heh turns out it was adobe flash, not openttd, nor external library
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22:53:58  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#5541
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22:55:21  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#5566 duplicate, but fixed
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22:59:36  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5568 I remember this one, crashing without generating the crash files, nice job getting it fixed.
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23:10:53  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:13:50  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5571 fixed, then reverted, then re-fixed again :)
23:14:54  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#5594 not a bug, t.t
23:18:20  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6000 duplicate, but fixed
23:19:53  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6001
23:21:18  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6002 unreproduceable, but fixed
23:21:53  <goodger> uhh
23:22:53  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6003
23:23:58  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6013
23:24:46  <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6015
23:27:26  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6209 bug in AMD GE, i no longer use it. At least AMD recognized it and no longer ships it with their drivers.
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23:29:52  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6215 false report, heh... sorry about that
23:33:20  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6254
23:35:42  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6264
23:36:31  <Samu> Alberth (Alberth) - fs#6268
23:38:22  <Samu> Alberth (Alberth) - fs#6271 - not fixed
23:38:59  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6461
23:39:34  <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6511
23:39:43  <Samu> and I'm done
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23:50:20  <Samu> fixed-not_fixed ratio: Alberth 2-1 / Rubidium 13-3 / frosch 8-4 / Belugas 1-0 / glx 1-0
23:50:40  <Samu> Rubidium wins as the most fixer of my reports :p lol
23:50:59  <Samu> i'm pretty bored
23:51:04  <Samu> as you can see
23:57:14  <Samu> cyas all goodnight
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