Log for #openttd on 20th October 2016:
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00:03:57  <Wolf01> 'night
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02:09:45  <supermop> protecting my emotional well being by not watching the debate tonight
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02:16:30  <sim-al2> It's hilarious actually, in a sort of "WTF is Trump talking about" way
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02:22:20  <FLHerne> "Donald Trump has a leg-up on Gary Johnson. He has apparently heard of Aleppo."
03:06:44  <Sylf> Truth.
03:07:28  <supermop> might get a google pixel tomorrow
03:07:53  <Sylf> no explosion?  how boring.
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08:58:18  <Wolf01> o/
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12:23:42  <masab> hello
12:24:13  <masab> my problem related to trains
12:24:47  <planetmaker> hi. Best describe the problem in its entirety
12:26:56  <masab> after upgrading trains and to maglave construction after many year the trains not following the oders but in the binging of maglave trains was following orders properly
12:28:06  <masab> now tains behaving like trains not following orders and running on different rail stations instead of orders
12:29:00  <peter1138> possibly missed out a bit of track conversion
12:29:52  <masab> no
12:30:31  <masab> i again start the game again come to the same situation its again and again
12:32:11  <masab> how can i send you screenshot >
12:32:13  <masab> ?
12:34:52  <Wolf01> Check for implicit orders in trains schedule?
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12:41:54  <masab> yes
12:42:17  <planetmaker> maybe a piece of track was exploded by an ufo?
12:44:01  <masab> no on the same track maglave trains was working well but after  few years on the same track and same maglave train not following the orders
12:44:06  <planetmaker> or the depots are not all converted and available - but they look for a depot to service in - and get wildly on the wrong track, looking for the closest one
12:45:54  <masab> no trains also going to depot but situation is still same
12:46:22  <masab> you can join me online and view right now and see the real situation
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12:52:05  <masab> ?
12:52:40  <planetmaker> sorry, I can't at this moment
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12:53:53  <planetmaker> masab, maybe write in our forums?
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13:36:17  <supermop_> good morning
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14:16:13  <masab> i am not satisfied with all
14:24:41  <Wolf01> masab, you should write about your problem in the forum and attach a screenshot/savegame, not just reading it
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14:25:07  <Wolf01> Ragequit?
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14:52:21  <Alberth> moin
14:57:37  <Wolf01> o/
14:59:53  <supermop_> hi Alberth
15:02:19  <goodger> honestly, planetmaker, what does openttd, inc. pay your massive salary for, if not to solve nebulous problems on IRC
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15:06:19  <Alberth> just ban everybody?  should solve all IRC problems
15:10:03  <peter1138> ok
15:11:01  <argoneus> good evening train friends
15:11:46  <argoneus> I was wondering
15:11:52  <argoneus> if you have a game that has a GUI frontend
15:11:58  <argoneus> and a separate class or something for the actual game logic
15:12:04  <argoneus> how do you make them communicate if it has to be twoway?
15:12:13  <argoneus> some sort of intermediate controller class or whatever?
15:13:03  <V453000> anus
15:13:09  <argoneus> nice anus
15:13:29  <argoneus> anus is my favourite
15:13:44  <Alberth> o/
15:14:29  <Alberth> standard pattern for GUIs and logic in the MVC pattern (model-view-controller)
15:14:37  <Alberth> s/in/is/
15:14:41  <argoneus> ah
15:14:44  <argoneus> so basically what I described
15:14:51  <argoneus> though it's a bit of a mishmash for me
15:16:53  <argoneus> basically when the game receivess something from the network, it tells the GUI to update itself
15:17:06  <argoneus> and vice versa if you click something in the GUI it tells the game to send it over the wire
15:17:13  <argoneus> so it's a situation where... everyone needs to know of everyone else
15:17:14  <argoneus> ._.
15:17:21  <Alberth>
15:17:27  <argoneus> I'll just make it game<->controller<->gui
15:17:44  <argoneus> where the controller will forward requests from game to gui and vice versa
15:17:55  <argoneus> even if it's not a strictly MVC model it makes sense to me
15:18:38  <Alberth> MVC is a very general model (as are most design patterns), you rarely use them as-is
15:19:03  <Alberth> you may want to make explicit what lives at both sides of the network
15:19:10  <Milek7_> gui could register callbacks for updates in game
15:19:14  <Milek7_> or vice versa
15:19:24  <Wolf01> Oh, are you into game development too, argoneus?
15:19:31  <argoneus> nooot quite
15:19:34  <argoneus> it's just a random pet project
15:19:41  <Alberth> at least into GUI development :)
15:19:56  <argoneus> GUIs are the bane of my existence
15:20:09  <argoneus> it's just a random pyqt thing
15:20:34  <argoneus> as for registering callbacks
15:20:41  <argoneus> I suppose I could do that but I never really figured out how to do that
15:20:58  <argoneus> the most I ever did was have a list of classes that care about what I'm doing and .notifying() them
15:21:20  <argoneus> eh I'll just hack something together, thanks Alberth
15:21:32  <Alberth> yw
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15:22:44  <Wolf01> I'd use events
15:24:56  <Wolf01> I'm making this
15:25:21  <Wolf01> But better and with blackjack and hookers
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15:25:50  <argoneus> ooooo shit waddu
15:25:51  <argoneus> is that
15:25:53  <argoneus> battle city
15:25:56  <argoneus> or whatever it was called
15:26:34  <Wolf01> Yep
15:26:45  <argoneus> niiice
15:26:47  <argoneus> godspeed my friend
15:27:03  <argoneus> what are you making it on
15:27:18  <argoneus> in
15:28:02  <Alberth> qt has such nice callback hooks
15:28:27  <Wolf01> Oh, nothing too weird, just some more tank types and powerups
15:28:38  <argoneus> Alberth: you mean the whole connect() thing?
15:28:45  <argoneus> or is there something more
15:28:51  <Wolf01> But I need to get rid of some collision bugs
15:29:15  <argoneus> I mean like
15:29:18  <argoneus> language/framework
15:29:55  <Alberth> yes, the connect function stuff
15:30:07  <Wolf01> C# + Monogame
15:30:15  <argoneus> oh, nice
15:30:19  <argoneus> why monogame though
15:30:22  <argoneus> isn't libgdx all the hype
15:30:26  <argoneus> or even unity
15:31:02  <Wolf01> Unity is too weird, I can't understand how the ide works, not enough freedom
15:32:19  <argoneus> mhm
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15:39:19  <Wolf01> Mmmh, how do I snap a vector to the nearest coordinate? I mean, I want to snap the position in a 8x8 grid when turning, but the movement is free (could be incremented even by 0.1)
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15:41:37  <argoneus> Wolf01: you should have a way of translating
15:41:41  <argoneus> in game coordinates to grid coordinates
15:41:45  <argoneus> and then it's trivial
15:41:49  <argoneus> you just round
15:42:03  <argoneus> if I understood your question that is
15:43:09  <Wolf01> No, I want to just be able to round by 8 the current position
15:43:38  <argoneus> round by 8?
15:43:44  <argoneus> also battle city had free movement altogether, no?
15:43:45  <Wolf01> Yep, only when turning
15:43:45  <Alberth> I don't understand the question
15:43:55  <argoneus> no wait it didn't
15:43:57  <argoneus> it was 4way
15:44:40  <Wolf01> It's to allow to center a narrow passage :P
15:44:58  <Alberth> but snapping is usually size * floor(pos / size)  possibly with a + size / 2
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15:47:22  <Wolf01> The problem is that I have the bounding boxes for collisions of the same size of the tiles, but the movement is really fine, if you don't have a reference such a wall to collide and turn it's a pita to be able to pass in a 1 tile narrow passage
15:58:38  <argoneus> Alberth: I just realized
15:58:40  <argoneus> it's not exactly MVC
15:58:47  <argoneus> because I don't just react to user input
15:58:51  <argoneus> I feed the GUI information even without it
15:58:54  <argoneus> hmm...
15:59:11  <argoneus> I can't figure out a way to make 2 way communication "cleanly"
15:59:18  <argoneus> without mixing things
15:59:39  <Alberth> mix what?
15:59:45  <argoneus> well
15:59:58  <argoneus> the controller usually reacts to user input, asks the model for stuff, and passes it back
16:00:14  <argoneus> but in this case, the controller should do that and also react to data coming from the network
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16:00:32  <argoneus> so game logic receives stuff from network -> passes it to controller -> controller updates gui
16:00:46  <argoneus> user clicks gui -> passes it to controller -> controller tells the logic what to do
16:00:47  <Alberth> the first line is a wrong assumption, I think
16:00:49  <Wolf01> Vector2 v = position / snapRadius;
16:00:49  <Wolf01> return new Vector2((float)Math.Round(v.X), (float)Math.Round(v.Y)) * snapRadius;
16:00:49  <Wolf01> Easy :|
16:00:52  <argoneus> so I mix two behaviours in the controller, no?
16:00:54  <argoneus> wrong assumption?
16:01:47  <Alberth> controller reacts to input, not necessarily user input
16:01:57  <argoneus> ah
16:01:59  <Alberth> maybe the simplest solution is to have 2 controllers
16:02:01  <argoneus> so input could be network data as well
16:02:04  <argoneus> yeah
16:02:08  <argoneus> I was thinking that too
16:02:12  <argoneus> networkcontroller and guicontroller
16:02:29  <Alberth> one that updates the gui from the data that you have and that changes
16:02:43  <Alberth> and one that handles input
16:03:00  <argoneus> so essentially
16:03:02  <Alberth> where you can split the latter between user and network, ie 2 input controllers
16:03:08  <argoneus> one controller will react to incoming network data
16:03:12  <argoneus> and the other will react to incoming user input
16:03:24  <argoneus> and both will do the necessary steps to update the game logic / gui?
16:03:52  <argoneus> though what if user input translates to a network command
16:03:56  <argoneus> then the controllers also need to talk together
16:03:56  <argoneus> ugh
16:04:06  <Alberth> I'd think both update the data storage
16:04:47  <Alberth>  make a queue of data to be sent to the network
16:05:03  <argoneus> so a real example
16:05:15  <argoneus> user sends a message through the gui, and the message only shows up clientside once the server received it (for obvious reasons)
16:06:14  <Alberth> you could opt for keeping user input and stuff from the network completely separate
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16:06:33  <argoneus> I send message -> gui controller updates outgoing network queue -> network controller sends it -> [server receives it and sends it back] -> network controller receives message and passes it into incoming network data -> gui controller receives the data and draws it
16:06:53  <argoneus> something like this?
16:07:01  <Alberth> I think so
16:07:21  <Alberth> anything you enter first does a round-trip to the server and back
16:07:44  <Alberth> does give latency in response, of course
16:08:04  <argoneus> I need to be sure the messages are in the right order
16:08:10  <argoneus> and when the server has 100 clients sending the messages
16:08:15  <argoneus> the server has to decide who was first
16:08:18  <argoneus> so I can't predict anything
16:08:20  <argoneus> I think
16:09:11  <argoneus> but yeah
16:09:15  <argoneus> having a network controller will help a lot I think
16:09:29  <argoneus> because then I can asynchronously process both an incoming/outgoing queue
16:09:39  <argoneus> right
16:09:59  <argoneus> or I could just have a gui controller
16:10:03  <argoneus> and slap a network handler inside my game logic
16:10:07  <argoneus> that should also work
16:10:24  <argoneus> why is this so much more complicated than I thought it would ._.
16:10:45  <Alberth> too many independent things happening
16:12:04  <argoneus> I'm just gonna treat network as part of game logic
16:12:17  <argoneus> the idea is that the game itself should send/receive stuff on its own without any sort of gui present
16:12:23  <argoneus> so I should code it with that in mind
16:12:28  <argoneus> even if the game requires a GUI, it should work without one
16:12:29  <argoneus> right
16:12:34  <argoneus> on a logical level
16:13:01  <Alberth> and you have data stored at either side, to reduce the need to ask remotely for stuff
16:13:01  <argoneus> for all I care the game is just a glorified tcp client
16:13:25  <Alberth> *both    is the right word, likely
16:13:40  <argoneus> both?
16:13:58  <Alberth> you keep a data storage at both sides of the network
16:14:01  <argoneus> o
16:14:08  <Alberth> at the server and at the client(s)
16:14:13  <argoneus> well
16:14:17  <argoneus> the client keeps track of its own state
16:14:23  <argoneus> and the server keeps track of every client's state
16:14:29  <argoneus> I even have half the server written already
16:14:33  <Alberth> server needs central knowledge, client needs to know what to display to the user
16:15:12  <argoneus> though one more question
16:15:22  <argoneus> in a MVC model
16:15:29  <argoneus> if the model changes, does it notify the controller or the view?
16:15:34  <argoneus> "hey controller, update the view"
16:15:41  <argoneus> or does it directly update the view
16:15:53  <argoneus> or does the view monitor the model
16:15:53  <argoneus> ugh
16:16:00  <argoneus> so many possibilities
16:16:03  <Alberth> you'd have to read the wiki page
16:16:19  <argoneus> well
16:16:23  <Alberth> but usually, having a separate thing for separate parts is a good idea
16:16:25  <argoneus> the wiki said that the model directly updated the view
16:16:30  <argoneus> but that seems off in my case
16:16:38  <argoneus> the game logic has no reason to care about some view
16:16:46  <argoneus> so I'm a bit confused
16:16:47  <Alberth> it can be done, eg EMF does that
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16:17:03  <andythenorth>
16:17:04  <Alberth> you can hook update callbacks in the model itself
16:17:08  <argoneus> EMF?
16:17:28  <Alberth> Eclipse Meta Fsomething
16:17:41  <Alberth> core of Eclipse Modeling
16:17:47  <andythenorth> my 2nd favourite link of today:
16:17:54  <andythenorth> favourite link is above
16:18:13  <argoneus> I dunno
16:18:21  <Alberth> +2 for the cat picture :D
16:18:22  <argoneus> my game logic directly changing the gui seems bad
16:18:23  <argoneus> :(
16:18:34  <argoneus> imo the game logic should just be a tcp client that keeps its own state
16:18:43  <argoneus> and some other entity keeps track of what the logic is up to
16:18:43  <Alberth> it avoids having to write a controller
16:18:52  <argoneus> hm
16:18:57  <argoneus> I'd basically need two controllers otherwise, right
16:19:04  <argoneus> one to translate user input to game logic
16:19:09  <Alberth> but eventually, there is code that updates the gui, either way
16:19:10  <argoneus> and one to update the gui based on game logic
16:19:42  <Alberth> as I said, MVC is very general, nobody uses it unmodified
16:19:55  <argoneus> I think for now I'll go with two controllers like we said before
16:20:01  <argoneus> one to deal with user input and translate it to game logic
16:20:05  <argoneus> and one to translate game logic into gui updates
16:20:11  <argoneus> that seems to make the most sense to me right now
16:20:36  <Alberth> doing stuff in a way that makes sense, makes a lot of sense :)
16:21:05  <argoneus> heh
16:21:23  <argoneus> or hell
16:21:28  <argoneus> I'll skip having an user input controller
16:21:32  <argoneus> and just call the game logic directly from the GUI
16:21:37  <argoneus> it should be fairly high level commands
16:21:50  <argoneus> functions rather
16:22:12  <argoneus> I just need to tell the game logic "user attempted to send message hello!"
16:22:18  <argoneus> I don't need a controller for such basic thngs
16:22:21  <argoneus> things*
16:23:04  <argoneus> it's different the other way around
16:23:10  <argoneus> as a simple game logic update can require multiple GUI changes
16:23:18  <argoneus> so a controller there makes sense
16:23:24  <argoneus> thanks for helping me bounce ideas Alberth!
16:23:26  <argoneus> have a nice evening
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16:23:45  <Alberth> "controller" is just a way of thinking about it, you can eventually give it any shape you see fit
16:23:56  <argoneus> true
16:24:03  <argoneus> I'll make the QWidget itself a controller, then :)
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16:47:34  <andythenorth> tramz!
16:47:42  <andythenorth>
16:47:58  <andythenorth> mail tram!
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16:59:27  <Wolf01> Spammer
17:00:01  <Wolf01> Btw, nice ones
17:00:18  <Alberth> he just loves cats and tramz :)
17:00:32  <Alberth> nice solution to your problem btw
17:01:08  <Wolf01> The vector rounding?
17:01:11  <Alberth> yes
17:01:36  <Wolf01> I used the idea you gave me about rounding ad applied that to vector components
17:01:49  <Alberth> works because the rounded value is in the center, I guess
17:02:52  <Wolf01> I even found that a snap radius of 16 is even better, as you rotate by 90° you don't notice the snap
17:03:43  <Alberth> making it magically work :)
17:04:06  <Wolf01> You need to be very precise to position the tank and turn to see it really moves by ~7 pixels
17:04:37  <Alberth> you know what to look for, and when :)
17:04:38  <Wolf01> Or 15
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17:41:43  <andythenorth> this one is good too
17:41:48  <andythenorth> needs a tl;dr though :P
17:43:39  <Alberth> o/
17:44:28  <Alberth> so the cat mystery is solved, and you have new tramz, such progress :)
17:45:02  <supermop_> andythenorth: i was expecting another tram
17:45:14  <andythenorth> much progress
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17:46:41  <Wolf01> o/
17:46:43  <Wolf01> Quak
17:48:16  <supermop_> i wonder how hard it would be to build my own N tramway pointwork
17:48:29  <supermop_> do people still build their own point?
17:48:32  <supermop_> points
17:49:05  <supermop_> tramway points should be easier - just one bit that flaps back and forth
17:49:24  <Wolf01> Define "point"
17:50:29  <frosch123> moi
17:57:47  <supermop_> switch
17:58:00  <Wolf01> Then call it switch?
17:58:21  <Wolf01> I never understood the difference, that's why I asked
17:58:23  <supermop_> i do but assumed the European audience here called them points
17:58:35  <supermop_> americans call them switches
17:59:02  <Wolf01> I always call them switches, or junctions, even in italian
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18:00:17  <supermop_> il Switch?
18:00:25  <supermop_> or la switch?
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18:02:55  * andythenorth wondered when people would start talking about Switch here
18:02:58  <andythenorth> I just read the review
18:03:08  <andythenorth> switched back to irc, boom, we’re talking about it :P
18:03:35  <Wolf01> Lol
18:03:49  <Wolf01> Btw, "lo scambio"
18:03:50  <andythenorth> “what the Wii U should have been"
18:03:56  <Wolf01> Yeah
18:04:07  <Wolf01> I hope that thing won't cost 300€
18:04:09  * andythenorth is not a dedicated gamer
18:04:19  <andythenorth> we have a Wii U, kids like it, didn’t break it yet
18:04:20  <andythenorth> happy
18:04:28  <andythenorth> controllers cost more than the console
18:04:30  <andythenorth> eh
18:05:15  <Wolf01> I have a Wii U too, and the only thing I like about it is the ability to play on bed without the tv
18:05:37  <Wolf01> Not with all games, but the 2 ones I have allow it
18:06:51  <andythenorth> whenever I read Nintendo reviews, they are all from the perspective of ‘this console is underpowered and over-priced'
18:07:08  <andythenorth> which overlooks that it’s the only thing that runs recent Mario Kart
18:07:32  <andythenorth> I don’t care how many polygons it draws per second
18:07:41  <andythenorth> it has Mario Kart, and nothing else does
18:10:51  <Wolf01> I wanted to buy that too, but no fun to play alone
18:13:54  <supermop_> i wonder if it is better to buy standard scale rails and cover them with something, or buy some generic metal strips to inlay
18:14:44  <supermop_> my old wii was essentially just a mario kart appliance
18:15:31  <andythenorth> supermop_: you don’t want to just buy track?
18:15:43  <supermop_> im wondering
18:16:06  <supermop_> the modular tramway ive seen doesn't spark my interest
18:16:40  <supermop_> but i could buy regular track and set it into some wood or concrete table top
18:16:51  <supermop_> or use brass or copper so it looks fancy
18:17:11  <andythenorth> Kato Unitram?
18:17:15  <supermop_> yeah
18:17:24  <supermop_> looks to toy-ish for what i want
18:17:28  <supermop_> too
18:18:09  <Wolf01> I really like the Kato Unitram instead
18:18:20  <supermop_> i want a topologically accurate, but visually abstract model of this:
18:18:21  <supermop_>
18:18:36  <supermop_> set in a nice walnut shelf/table top
18:19:17  <supermop_> laser cut or cnc rout the top layer of wood veneer to fit around trackwork?
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18:19:58  <andythenorth> did you see the black-top layouts I found?
18:20:02  <andythenorth> think I shared them
18:20:09  <andythenorth> minimalist
18:20:29  <supermop_> hmm sounds vaguely familiar
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18:23:22  <andythenorth> supermop_:
18:24:12  <supermop_> hmm table top card game layout?
18:24:41  <Wolf01> Ha!
18:24:58  <supermop_> the guy plays a game of marshalling train shown on cards huh?
18:25:01  <supermop_> could be fun
18:25:27  <andythenorth> inglenook shunting puzzle
18:25:37  <andythenorth> it’s a logic problem basically
18:26:07  <supermop_> build a table with 4 yards for a game night?
18:26:13  <andythenorth> people do yes
18:26:17  <andythenorth> or 2 back to back
18:26:18  <andythenorth> race
18:26:51  <supermop_> what about depots along way to drop off certain cars out of mixed freight
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18:28:51  <Wolf01> I've seen it many times :)
18:29:14  <supermop_> sounds like a use for my little N 08
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18:33:39  <Wolf01> Too bad the one I found for trainz simulator doesn't work
18:33:40  <andythenorth> supermop_: there’s also ‘timesaver’ but I don’t get it
18:33:51  <andythenorth> Wolf01: there’s a very old javascript version somewhere
18:34:20  <supermop_> too bad the only other n stuff i have is a 158, 225 swallow set and 125 swallow set
18:34:22  <Wolf01> But driving the train is better :D
18:34:23  <andythenorth> I was going to build an inglenook, but then….I couldn’t be arsed
18:34:44  <supermop_> not much marshaling to do
18:35:36  <supermop_> maybe an excuse to buy some railfreight grey 47 and bunch of wagons
18:36:18  <Wolf01> the timesaver one
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18:42:24  <supermop_> ok nvm this looks really tedious
18:42:39  <Wolf01> And people ask for shunting in OTTD
18:48:34  <andythenorth> I went rapidly off the idea, running trains on my kids 4x8 oval is quite relaxing
18:48:46  <andythenorth> actually doing shunting puzzles…not
18:50:39  <Wolf01>
18:52:23  <frosch123> we need an alphabetisation program for trains
18:54:04  <andythenorth> frosch123: to teach them to read? o_O
18:54:42  <frosch123> yes
18:55:04  <Wolf01> So they can read how much late they are running
19:03:57  <V453000> Wolf01: thats nice :D
19:04:06  <V453000> frosch123: slugs can
19:04:26  <frosch123> it's a V!
19:04:41  <frosch123> i commited the sprite stacking btw, if you didn't notice
19:04:41  <V453000> iz alive
19:04:45  <frosch123> so, more slugs :)
19:05:06  <V453000> so it is in trunk now?
19:05:10  <frosch123> yes
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19:05:39  <V453000> I am kind of holy shit levels of busy with factorio right now but I would love to start working on the train set soonish
19:05:44  <Wolf01> So you can helpz with NRT now?
19:05:50  <V453000> finishing BRIX first though, too ._.
19:05:57  <frosch123> :)
19:06:12  <frosch123> Wolf01: possible :)
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19:11:54  <andythenorth> frogs, wolves
19:11:55  <andythenorth> cats
19:19:27  <V453000> hello andythenorth
19:19:39  <andythenorth> hello V453000
19:19:40  <V453000> how do you tram?
19:19:42  <andythenorth> getting any sleep?
19:20:16  <V453000> yeah it is not horrible
19:20:33  <V453000> exactly 7:15am there is an organic alarm
19:20:41  <andythenorth> 7.15 :o
19:20:48  <andythenorth> that’s like…the middle of the day
19:20:57  <V453000> is great
19:21:06  <V453000> she does not sleep during the day almost at all however
19:21:17  <V453000> like, unusually little
19:21:23  <V453000> but hm :)
19:21:28  <V453000> cant have everything
19:22:23  * andythenorth 5 trams left
19:22:27  <andythenorth> then trammed up to the max
19:22:31  <andythenorth> until version 1.1
19:22:33  <V453000> :D
19:22:34  <V453000> nice
19:22:48  <V453000> I have sketches for almost ALL the train models for BRIX
19:22:53  <V453000> but didnt have enough time to blender them
19:23:21  <V453000> drawing almost every day in subway :D is like 1hr per day so it goes somewhere, but 3D work is behind a lot
19:23:46  <V453000> I am seriously considering getting a tablet and a wacom pen and drawing shit in metro directly into sprites
19:25:35  <V453000> but yeah maybe later, already bought headphones for christmas for myself :D
19:25:43  <andythenorth> noise cancelling? o_O
19:26:15  <V453000> no, just for home
19:26:22  <V453000> "just"
19:27:02  <V453000> I usually have relatively noise cancelling (not actively) headphones on my head all day long at work, so I actually like not listening to shit in subway
19:27:13  <andythenorth> my friend bought noise cancelling headphones when he had kids
19:27:18  <andythenorth> for holding crying baby
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19:27:53  <andythenorth> for those who aren’t parents, this isn’t misogynistic uncaring crap, it’s just basic survival :P
19:28:05  <V453000> and at home I prefer to use open headphones which actually let noise in/out because 1. the sound is clearer and I vastly prefer it, 2. I dont use it that noisily to annoy surroundings, and I can hear that there is someone talking to me, even if i cant undertand what they want immediately without puttin the headphones down
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19:28:13  <V453000> XD right
19:28:16  <andythenorth> I have open headphones
19:28:23  <andythenorth> avoids having to take them off
19:28:25  <V453000> well to be fair, Ema almost never cries
19:28:30  <V453000> yeah
19:28:34  <andythenorth> you have ideal baby
19:28:37  <V453000> also I got them wireless, the freedom is amazing
19:28:46  <V453000> no fucking wire
19:29:03  <V453000> ........ also bring the benefit of exporting fecal matter while keeping headphones on
19:29:08  <andythenorth> I have
19:29:15  <andythenorth> looks stupid, but works grat
19:29:17  <andythenorth> great *
19:29:58  <V453000>
19:30:08  <V453000> the sound is better than anything I have heard before
19:30:19  <andythenorth> chunky
19:31:03  <V453000> I was using in-ear headphones at some point too, but the super heavy bass isnt exactly what I prefer, and having them in my ears for a long time is just pain to me
19:32:36  <andythenorth> also tramz
19:32:43  <andythenorth> 1st one needs a few pixels changed
19:32:45  <andythenorth> otherwise done
19:33:05  <V453000> looks awesome
19:33:13  <Wolf01> ^
19:33:26  <V453000> kind of hating the huge black rectangles on the second one but eh
19:33:38  <V453000> some gray would be nice to change the solid color
19:34:11  <andythenorth> the roofs look crap on the second one
19:34:19  <andythenorth> also in / \ views, worse
19:34:43  <V453000> yeah the roofs are another thing
19:38:55  <Wolf01> "I refused to believe my road worker father was stealing from his job, but when I got home, all the signs were there."
19:39:01  <andythenorth> ha ha
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19:59:56  <Wolf01> I'm bored now
20:01:04  <supermop_> build a shunting puzzle?
20:02:38  <Wolf01> Too much work
20:03:30  <Wolf01> I don't want to code this evening, I've done that every night since sunday
20:03:44  *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
20:03:45  <Wolf01> About 50 hours of work this week
20:07:00  <andythenorth> sometimes I just watch YT videos
20:07:03  <andythenorth> [shock]
20:07:18  <Wolf01> A movie, good point
20:07:21  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
20:07:47  <Wolf01> If I open YT I'll look for another 2 hours documentary about restoring steam locos
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20:46:45  <V453000> ._.
20:52:46  <andythenorth> yes
20:52:51  <andythenorth> exactly
20:53:04  * andythenorth failed to draw tramz tonight
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21:30:23  <supermop_> maybe i could make a brio puzzle instead
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23:24:33  <Wolf01> 'night
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