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00:05:06 *** m1cr0man has quit IRC 00:08:48 <Wolf01> 'night 00:08:51 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:22:57 *** Ttech has quit IRC 00:25:30 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 00:33:41 *** Ttech has joined #openttd 00:44:40 *** zeta has quit IRC 01:12:00 *** dpk has quit IRC 01:19:07 *** dpk has joined #openttd 01:22:41 *** blathijs has quit IRC 01:22:56 *** Ammler has quit IRC 01:25:25 *** Osai has quit IRC 01:25:40 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 01:30:33 *** V453000 has quit IRC 01:36:36 *** grossing has quit IRC 01:44:49 <Ethereal_Whisper> So I've been having problems with my SLH's and started a new game to rebuilt a new network... the trains almost invariably choose the outer track of my ML 01:44:54 <Ethereal_Whisper> Wondering how I can fix this 02:00:58 *** TheIJ has quit IRC 02:12:08 *** Prof_Frink has quit IRC 02:32:15 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 02:32:15 *** Osai has joined #openttd 02:32:44 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 02:37:57 *** glx has quit IRC 03:11:07 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 03:16:06 <Sylf> Ethereal_Whisper, check signals on the track that trains don't choose 03:16:38 <Sylf> Post the .sav file on some file share site - some one might take a look at it too 03:19:57 <Ethereal_Whisper> I will, Sylf ... currently working on a BBH 03:19:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> Er 03:19:59 <Ethereal_Whisper> MSH 03:20:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> Could you take a look at one of my all to all joiners with a TL of 4? 03:20:44 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/Na19BMz.png 03:20:56 <Ethereal_Whisper> It's 4->2 inner to outer 03:21:12 <Ethereal_Whisper> Inner lanes from the MS so the outer lanes (ML) get priority 03:34:19 <Sylf> a pic of just one section of MSH doesn't tell me much 03:39:31 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://puu.sh/rWZ6F/06f4adf60c.sav 03:41:54 <Sylf> so,this is not the map you were having problem where trains weren't chosing tracks evenly? 03:42:02 <Ethereal_Whisper> Correct 03:42:14 <Sylf> then there's not much I can say or do about this one 03:42:18 <Ethereal_Whisper> I am about to try building my first SLH 03:42:43 <Sylf> other than to say that some curves are shorter than the train length, but I don't know what trains you will be running 03:42:56 <Ethereal_Whisper> Strong class trains, the TL is 4 but they can handle CL 3 03:43:55 <Sylf> there's one CL2 at bottom right 03:44:59 <Ethereal_Whisper> On the west-south joiner from the MS? 03:45:36 <Sylf> yes 03:45:57 <Ethereal_Whisper> Odd, the game measures it as 3 03:46:23 <Sylf> the consecutive zig-zag-zig-zag at the split 03:46:40 <Sylf> that's almost CL1 03:46:45 <Sylf> actually, it is CL1 03:47:06 <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh, before the double bridge on the outer track? 03:47:19 <Sylf> no bridges there 03:47:32 <Sylf> it's the line leading to a tunnel 03:47:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh, that 03:47:45 <Ethereal_Whisper> That doesn't slow down the set of trains I'm using 03:47:58 <Sylf> yes, it will. trust me. 03:48:14 <Sylf> it will go 112km/h or something at best 03:48:27 <Sylf> not 160km/h you're looking for 03:48:40 <Sylf> maybe slower 03:49:31 <Sylf> if in doubt, send some trains that way and test those lines. 03:49:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> I changed it anyway, heh 03:50:36 <Sylf> there's one minor spot that trains can slow down unnecessarily, but that's a smaller issue. 03:51:01 <Sylf> after the very top double bridge, if the train takes the top split, that CL is too short for TL4 CL3 trains. 03:51:29 <Sylf> but those trains will only slow down to maybe 145km/h for a fraction of a second 03:51:38 <Ethereal_Whisper> Let me send some trains through it 03:52:53 <Ethereal_Whisper> It maintained its full speed of 150 km/h on my test 03:55:07 <Ethereal_Whisper> It appears the joiner I built is balanced 03:55:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/qGoUQeC.png 03:58:21 <Sylf> It's the 2 tile section like http://i.imgur.com/lFZk50m.png which will cause the slow-down 03:58:46 <Ethereal_Whisper> Yeah, I got rid of that :) 03:59:08 <Sylf> when single train covers 3 bends, it's counted something shorter than CL3 03:59:58 <Sylf> (that sentence taken out of context is incorrect, but... meh.) 04:00:08 <Ethereal_Whisper> I understand you 04:09:26 <Ethereal_Whisper> Thanks for the help :) 04:13:38 *** tokai has joined #openttd 04:13:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 04:25:14 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 04:34:22 <Ethereal_Whisper> Good morning V453000 04:45:38 *** MonkeyDrone has quit IRC 04:48:21 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:16:47 <Lejving> Sylf, are you able to start up coopserver? 05:29:19 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 05:36:19 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest3270 05:36:20 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 05:41:07 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 05:41:15 *** Guest3270 has quit IRC 05:42:55 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 05:47:26 *** supermop has quit IRC 05:49:10 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 05:50:59 *** supermop has joined #openttd 05:56:32 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 06:24:22 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 06:30:03 *** Knogle has quit IRC 06:58:22 <Ethereal_Whisper> I am no longer having outside lane bias with my SLH joiners :) 07:40:08 <V453000> yo 07:46:57 *** grossing has joined #openttd 07:47:04 *** TheIJ has joined #openttd 07:47:26 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd 07:47:54 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 07:47:54 *** Sacro has joined #openttd 07:48:38 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 07:55:37 *** zeta has joined #openttd 08:02:18 *** roidal has joined #openttd 08:03:21 *** xQR has quit IRC 08:03:25 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 08:03:28 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 08:03:34 *** xQR has joined #openttd 08:05:21 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 08:07:29 *** FR^2 has quit IRC 08:07:35 *** FR^3 has joined #openttd 08:15:44 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 08:32:53 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:35:55 <Wolf01> o/ 08:40:10 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 09:06:39 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 09:12:06 <Ethereal_Whisper> o/ 09:22:34 *** TinoDidriksen has quit IRC 09:22:49 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd 09:50:28 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 09:50:44 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 10:36:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:36:09 <Wolf01> o/ 10:36:13 <andythenorth> moin 10:36:24 <goodger> hoi 10:36:27 <Wolf01> At the end I did A+B XD 10:36:38 <andythenorth> :P 10:37:02 <Wolf01> Was easy, one more variable and 2 lines of code moved inside an if 10:44:20 *** Nothing4You has quit IRC 10:45:24 *** Nothing4You has joined #openttd 10:51:28 *** LordAro has quit IRC 10:51:56 *** LordAro has joined #openttd 10:53:51 *** efess has quit IRC 10:54:10 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 10:58:37 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 10:58:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 11:02:13 *** goodger has quit IRC 11:02:16 *** goodger has joined #openttd 11:05:32 *** tokai has quit IRC 11:27:12 <andythenorth> where is V453000 11:27:13 <andythenorth> https://twitter.com/thisisinsider/status/790431905590022144 11:29:43 <Wolf01> Lol, I linked it some nights ago, he already saw it :D 11:30:33 <andythenorth> oh :| 11:30:37 * andythenorth glory stolen 11:30:56 <Wolf01> Stolen mine too, he alredy saw it before XD 11:31:38 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 11:31:50 <Wolf01> We common paesants are always the last ones which see bleeding edge techs :) 11:44:16 *** DorpsGek has quit IRC 11:44:29 *** DorpsGek has joined #openttd 11:44:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek 11:50:23 *** Sova has joined #openttd 12:04:04 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 12:05:10 *** XeryusTC_ has quit IRC 12:05:14 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 12:06:49 <Wolf01> The time has come to do the game's state machine 12:11:27 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:15:48 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 12:30:40 *** guru3_ has quit IRC 12:31:10 *** Mazur has quit IRC 12:31:11 *** guru3 has joined #openttd 12:31:34 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 12:44:55 *** tneo has quit IRC 12:45:14 *** tneo has joined #openttd 12:45:52 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 12:46:14 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 12:46:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 12:46:49 *** Alkel_U3 has quit IRC 12:47:01 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd 12:58:11 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:59:59 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 13:02:28 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 13:14:27 <Wolf01> I have a little domain problem... I need to know the map width to be able to convert the coordinates of a tile to and from index (something like OTTD's TileXY() function); until now I passed the width every time I needed to do the conversion to the "Coordinates" type, I'm trying to understand if its right or if it's better to move those conversion methods directly in the map structure 13:14:29 *** behalebabo has joined #openttd 13:17:02 *** jonty-comp has quit IRC 13:17:03 *** jonty-comp has joined #openttd 13:40:21 <andythenorth> Wolf01: in a game, “it probably doesn’t matter" 13:40:28 <andythenorth> put it where 13:40:31 <andythenorth> - it’s easiest to read 13:40:45 <andythenorth> - it makes the most sense to find it if using search or similar 13:41:09 <andythenorth> - it doesn’t bleed information into other places that should be encapsulated cleanly in one object 13:41:18 <andythenorth> but mostly put it where it’s easiest to read 13:41:23 <Wolf01> It matter when you need to pass another dependency through 3 classes to use it in the last one 13:42:14 <andythenorth> do you end up including more things all over the place? 13:43:05 <Wolf01> I don't follow you 13:43:23 <andythenorth> if you’re passing it through more classes, do they all have to import the original class? 13:44:52 <Wolf01> No, I just need to load the dependency in the controller (bad, because it should be passed even there), pass it to the factory then to the tile 13:45:31 <andythenorth> the width of the map is an intrinsic property of the map, or the entire game? 13:45:43 <Wolf01> The single map 13:46:13 <Wolf01> If it was for the entire game, I would have used a constant :P 13:46:22 <andythenorth> there’s no right answer on proper domain, because you’re converting between the co-ordinate system of two domains 13:46:34 <andythenorth> both domains are involved, therefore no clear canonical answer 13:46:39 <andythenorth> write the code that’s easiest to delete :P 13:46:52 <Wolf01> No, domain is intended as software design, not data design 13:47:41 <andythenorth> it’s two objects though, no? Map, and Game 13:47:47 <andythenorth> or so 13:51:38 <Wolf01> I'm trying to follow this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-driven_design not really easy but helps to keep things well separated and working 13:53:05 <andythenorth> oic :) 13:53:11 <andythenorth> Enterprise Concepts :) 13:53:15 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:53:16 <andythenorth> no comment :P 13:54:02 <Wolf01> I started to use that when I worked as web developer 13:54:13 <andythenorth> what larks 13:55:13 <andythenorth> actually it’s kind of how we build software in my current work 13:55:55 <Wolf01> Also on personnel level, everybody had to do only it's work, the designer should not bother about what the developer does (except at brainstorming stage) 13:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> I have a little domain problem... I need to know the map width to be able to convert the coordinates of a tile to and from index (something like OTTD's TileXY() function); until now I passed the width every time I needed to do the conversion to the "Coordinates" type, I'm trying to understand if its right or if it's better to move those conversion methods directly in the map structure <-- can't you encapsulate that with get- 13:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> methods? Tile.Index, Tile.X, Tile.Y? 13:57:31 <Wolf01> Tile.GetCoordinates() -> [x, y] on map and Tile.GetPosition() -> [x, y] on screen 13:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, something like that 13:58:06 <andythenorth> it’s like ActionScript LocalToGlobal(coords) and GlobalToLocal(coords) 13:58:16 <Wolf01> Yes 13:58:34 <andythenorth> imho it doesn’t really matter what the domain is, it might even be a global utility 13:59:01 <andythenorth> pick the one you can delete with least work :) 13:59:02 <Wolf01> I use the first one for map handling (load from file, edit....) and the second for drawing 14:00:32 <Wolf01> *drawing, movement, collisions... 14:00:49 <andythenorth> yup 14:01:21 <Wolf01> Also is easier to convert from coordinates to tileindex than center-of-tile to tileindex :P 14:02:00 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:02:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:02:03 <Wolf01> o/ 14:02:17 <Alberth> hi hi 14:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the point is, that this Tile-class could know the width as a class-variable without you passing it everywhere 14:03:02 <Wolf01> I could pass it on tile initialization 14:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (a class-variable is a variable that is shared between all objects of a class) 14:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause> (so if you change it, it will be changed for all objects) 14:04:16 <Wolf01> I have static classes and structs for that, but the map isn't static, that's the problem 14:04:32 <andythenorth> does it change during the game loop? 14:04:36 <andythenorth> (dimensions) 14:04:41 <Wolf01> No 14:04:55 <Wolf01> Or... when I load a new map it could change 14:05:08 <andythenorth> yes 14:05:16 <andythenorth> when you instantiate a map, you instantiate tiles? 14:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, so when you load a game you change the member of the Tile class 14:05:43 <andythenorth> pass it into the constructor, or similar 14:06:34 * andythenorth wonders how that’s implented internally :P 14:06:36 <andythenorth> implemented * 14:06:49 <andythenorth> if you store a few extra bytes on every tile, and you have 15,000 tiles.... 14:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be the responsibility of the map constructor to adjust this variable 14:07:19 <andythenorth> do class vars consume just the few extra bytes, or 15000 * few bytes? 14:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a class-variable is not replicated like that 14:07:43 <andythenorth> that would be a silly language design 14:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's basically a global variable, limited to the scope of the class 14:07:55 <Alberth> 15000 * few bytes is not worth thinking about, at a desktop 14:08:23 <andythenorth> I am old enough to have been told ‘you must look up things like that in function, to save memory' 14:08:34 <andythenorth> which may not even have been true 15-20 years ago 14:08:54 <Alberth> mostly it's not true today 14:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the variable is "global" for all objects of the class, but invisible for everything else 14:09:18 <Alberth> don't know about 15-20 years ago, but euhm, that's gone 14:09:45 <andythenorth> self-taught flash programmers teaching other programmers 14:09:52 <andythenorth> blind leading the blind :P 14:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: do not assume you're more clever than the compiler's optimizer 14:09:56 <andythenorth> I am not 14:10:18 <andythenorth> although…flash? Director? You sure that still holds? :P 14:10:51 <Alberth> there is too much insane software out there :p 14:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so you can focus your developer time on things that improve an order of magnitude, like saving a loop, but not about switching operations within the loop to try to get an instruction or two faster 14:11:40 <andythenorth> or arguing with the product owner to remove the feature by better design :P 14:11:43 <andythenorth> even more saving 14:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you mean like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12692595 14:13:18 <andythenorth> that is one approach yes 14:14:45 <andythenorth> I keep being surprised that lots of programmers are a bit thick 14:14:47 <andythenorth> dunno why 14:14:54 <andythenorth> maybe I’m an optimist :P 14:17:05 <Wolf01> I think I could remove the coordinates thing from the tile and use diretly the map for that 14:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like Map.ConvertIndexToCoordinates? 14:18:02 <Wolf01> Yes 14:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that could work 14:18:48 <Wolf01> No other downsides than a debug function and some tests I could rewrite without problem 14:19:16 <Wolf01> The map loading already does that it's own way 14:21:26 <Wolf01> Like Map.AddTile(x, y, tile), Map converts x, y in tileindex and stores the tile 14:23:25 <Wolf01> Also when I'll want to save the map (from editor) I just do Map.Save(filename), I don't pass the tiles to to an another class which does the loop 14:23:50 <Wolf01> I could inject a SaveFormat class to the Map for that 14:25:04 * andythenorth bbl 14:25:04 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 14:32:21 <supermop> forum trolling again 14:33:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> Forgetting to connect a sideline station exit lane ftw 14:33:25 <Ethereal_Whisper> "train 426 is lost" out of nowhere 14:33:32 <Ethereal_Whisper> "what the fuck why... oh I'm dumb" 14:47:40 *** luaduck has quit IRC 14:47:48 *** luaduck has joined #openttd 15:01:35 *** Sova has quit IRC 15:11:17 *** srhnsn has joined 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#openttd 18:31:02 *** Sheogorath has quit IRC 18:31:11 *** Sheogorath has joined #openttd 18:33:28 <andythenorth> hmm, no OS X compile 18:46:02 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 18:46:17 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 18:49:46 *** Myhorta has quit IRC 19:03:41 *** roidal has quit IRC 19:04:31 *** funnel has joined #openttd 19:07:40 *** APTX has quit IRC 19:07:40 *** APTX has joined #openttd 19:08:13 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 19:10:30 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 19:15:15 *** supermop has quit IRC 19:22:48 *** funnel has quit IRC 19:28:24 *** zwamkat has quit IRC 19:30:00 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:30:06 *** zwamkat has joined #openttd 19:35:08 *** asie has quit IRC 19:35:50 *** asie has joined #openttd 19:39:50 *** wCPO has joined #openttd 19:51:00 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 19:54:49 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:02:00 *** funnel has joined #openttd 20:07:00 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:22:44 *** Arveen has quit IRC 20:22:48 *** KouDy has quit IRC 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IRC 22:13:44 *** funnel has quit IRC 22:14:52 *** Cursarion has quit IRC 22:14:53 *** Cursarion has joined #openttd 22:19:30 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 22:22:29 <Wolf01> 'night 22:22:32 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:23:03 *** wCPO has joined #openttd 22:26:00 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:26:22 *** funnel has joined #openttd 22:35:41 *** wCPO has quit IRC 22:42:14 *** wCPO has joined #openttd 22:47:02 *** Keridos has quit IRC 22:47:19 *** Keridos has joined #openttd 22:50:18 *** funnel has quit IRC 22:50:28 *** wCPO has quit IRC 22:54:32 *** srhnsn has quit IRC 22:58:24 *** Myhorta has quit IRC 23:05:50 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 23:07:49 <welshdragon> the mystery of RV's sparking in 1.6.1 continues: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75325&p=1178324#p1178324 23:19:34 *** supermop has joined #openttd 23:22:04 *** funnel has joined #openttd 23:25:59 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 23:36:27 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:44:24 *** funnel has quit IRC 23:50:52 *** 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