Log for #openttd on 12th November 2016:
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00:38:05  <Eddi|zuHause> so weird, an industry that once was just inside my catchment area is now just outside my catchment area...
00:39:07  <Eddi|zuHause> and ships have a one-cargo-hold problem if used as "trunk" line
00:39:19  <Eddi|zuHause> can only carry one type of cargo at a time
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03:39:43  <supermop_> well forgot to have dinner tonight
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07:55:20  <V453000> searching for north
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08:08:39  <Alberth> o/
08:11:02  <andythenorth> moin
08:11:33  <andythenorth> making an Arctic Basic economy is not very interesting :P
08:13:18  <V453000> yo
08:13:25  <andythenorth> lo V453000
08:13:40  <V453000> andythenorth how would one go about a snake script which converts 32bpp to 8bpp?
08:13:53  <andythenorth> hrm
08:14:00  <andythenorth> the actual sprites?
08:14:00  <V453000> I am guessing I would first take the rgb values of the indexes, create RGB ranges to filter
08:14:02  <V453000> and then assign them
08:14:16  <andythenorth> sounds like a proper way to do it
08:14:25  <andythenorth> blunt way is to assign a palette to an RGB image
08:14:30  <andythenorth> forced conversion
08:14:39  <V453000> well photoshop already does that and it's shit
08:14:54  <V453000> in places where alpha isn't 0 or 1
08:15:14  <andythenorth> it will likely be always shit, unless your 32bpp palette is limited also
08:15:20  <V453000> of course
08:15:26  <V453000> but it won't look downright broken
08:15:32  <andythenorth> unlikely you’ll write a better algorithm than adobe
08:15:45  <V453000> no but I will handle the alpha
08:15:46  <V453000>
08:16:04  <V453000> see, in places where it's not fully opaque I could just make the base colour use a different shade in the palette
08:16:06  <andythenorth> ugh
08:16:09  <andythenorth> what is that even :P
08:16:29  <V453000> it's a conversion made by taking the PNG with alpha, putting blue under it, converting to palette
08:16:43  <V453000> so the places where the shadow is half-transparent, it instead takes dark blue instead of alpha ... obviously
08:16:50  <andythenorth> that’s crap
08:16:53  <V453000> yes
08:16:58  <V453000> with white it isn't much better
08:17:01  <V453000> or with any other colour
08:17:10  <andythenorth> doesn’t the 8bpp palette have some alpha colours?
08:17:17  <andythenorth> some stations use them?
08:17:21  <V453000> of course not
08:17:25  <V453000> that's defined in the code
08:17:28  <V453000> it's an alpha mask
08:17:52  * andythenorth has never even tried to do that
08:18:16  <andythenorth> anyway, you want to detect all pixels with alpha < 1
08:18:17  <V453000> me neither but I am pretty confident it is done that way
08:18:26  <andythenorth> and then replace them all with blue
08:18:30  <V453000> well I will detect all with alpha >50 and <50
08:18:34  <andythenorth> fine
08:18:37  <V453000> but yes
08:18:53  <V453000> under 50 will get removed, over 50 will get darkened shade of the base colour, and set alpha to 1
08:18:55  <V453000> or something like that
08:19:12  <andythenorth> I am about to go offline
08:19:28  <V453000> enjoy your day :)
08:19:37  <andythenorth> but PIL masks are usually just black and white
08:19:42  <andythenorth> but you can make one on demand
08:19:48  <andythenorth> Road Hog does it to mask cargo
08:20:37  <andythenorth>
08:20:39  <andythenorth> L193 or so
08:20:59  <V453000> hm
08:21:05  <andythenorth> the lambda is converting pink to black
08:21:28  <V453000> vehicle_cargo_rows_image.putpalette(DOS_PALETTE) this line is important for me :)
08:21:31  <V453000> was wondering how
08:21:31  <andythenorth> you just need a bigger range of values to check, and you need to check in the alpha layer, not the single palette image
08:21:37  <V453000> yez
08:21:59  <andythenorth> .point() I think replaces pixels point-for-point
08:22:06  <andythenorth> can’t remember
08:22:21  <V453000> I have a function f or that already
08:22:27  <V453000> setpixel I think it is
08:22:40  <andythenorth> they have varying speeds, you need the fastest ultimately
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09:44:25  <Wolf01> o/
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09:45:43  <V453000> yo
09:50:43  <Alberth> o/
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10:01:38  <andythenorth> V453000: range replacement I do shitloads of
10:01:45  <andythenorth> for recolouring cargos and stuff
10:02:39  <andythenorth> I just do dumb colour maps with dicts
10:02:48  <andythenorth> find colour: replace with colour
10:03:16  <andythenorth> also if they’re just in neat sequences of 8 or so:
10:03:46  <andythenorth> that’s a dict comprehension, the result is a dict with 8 values in
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10:12:02  <Wolf01> 11:11
10:12:25  <Wolf01> Shit 2 seconds late
10:15:22  <Alberth> to compensate, leave 2 seconds earlier
10:20:14  <Alberth> V453000:  if you have a 32bpp sprite, a 8 bit palette, and a definition of 'closest', it should be quite trivial
10:22:54  <Alberth> or rather a notion of "distance" between 32bpp colour and a 8bpp colour
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10:26:40  <andythenorth> hmm
10:28:53  <Alberth> lo andy
10:33:34  <andythenorth> oops
10:33:38  <andythenorth> python doesn’t need ; chars :P
10:33:41  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
10:34:18  * andythenorth has 91 ‘legacy’ spritesheets and 49 ‘current’
10:34:33  <andythenorth> what I need is 140 ‘current’
10:35:24  <Alberth> maybe you're converting in the wrong direction?  :p
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11:58:38  <andythenorth> ‘legacy’ can’t fit 10/8 vehicles on
11:58:40  <andythenorth> :P
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12:36:12  <V453000> I just realized it isn't so straight forward to be able to tell if colours are actually similar in RGB
12:41:40  <Wolf01> A topic I followed to know how to use colours in development suggested to use the Lab colour space
12:42:59  <Wolf01> Mainly for blend modes
12:43:32  <V453000> idk if lab is enough
12:43:34  <V453000> ?
12:43:52  <V453000> is this even valid somehow?
12:44:12  <V453000> since I am "just"comparing palette colours to some other colours, both electronic without screen shit?
12:45:10  <Wolf01> IDK, really, I still have troubles recolouring my game objects with a mask :P
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12:49:14  <V453000> the problem is converting from 32bpp to 8bpp in general
12:51:38  <Wolf01> Lol, calculation in colour spaces use immaginary colours like complex numbers in math
12:54:31  <V453000> yes
13:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> imaginary numbers are fun
13:10:08  <V453000> for starters I will probably interpret RGB as cube and just compare the distances between points
13:11:00  <V453000> if that fails then maybe diving into this CIE bullfuck
13:13:34  <Alberth> my first simplistic attempt would be sum of differences in r,g, and b component, multiplied by the conversion factor used for greyscale conversion, as the latter is an indication how strong we perceive colour differences in a channel
13:13:58  <Wolf01> TL;DR contrast?
13:14:04  <V453000> yes something like that
13:14:36  <Alberth> contrast, but for each colour component individually
13:18:09  <V453000> sounds reasonable
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13:19:17  <Alberth> maybe take the square, to make many small differences favourable against one  big difference
13:19:47  <V453000> I think distance in cube is a good measure
13:20:22  <V453000> then I will just make some comparing function which sorts the distances "closest" to the index colours
13:20:29  <V453000> and list the RGB possibilities
13:20:32  <V453000> list will be long. :D
13:20:56  <V453000> I wonder how fast will the computer output the 16.7M values
13:22:03  <Alberth> don't pre-compute
13:22:25  <Alberth> just test every colour that you find against the 256 options
13:22:40  <V453000> hm
13:23:05  <V453000> wouldn't it be faster with pre-computed list? Assuming FUCKING LARGE spritesheets?
13:23:32  <V453000> bridges are 16384 x 3200 for example
13:23:54  <V453000> landscape 4864 x 8000
13:23:58  <Alberth> you don't want just Z1 for 8bpp?
13:24:05  <V453000> tracks 16000 x 3840
13:24:07  <V453000> Z1?
13:24:16  <V453000> ah zoom
13:24:18  <Alberth> normal zoom, as in original
13:24:32  <V453000> well, could do yes
13:24:42  <Alberth> @calc 16000*3840
13:24:42  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 61440000
13:24:49  <V453000> but still, whether pre-process or not sounds like it matters little in this scale, right?
13:24:51  <Alberth> @calc 2**24
13:24:51  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 16777216
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13:28:26  <Alberth> V453000:   <-- gimp conversion, how does that look?
13:29:29  <Wolf01> Converted from?
13:29:32  <V453000> Alberth: the general colour conversion is fine
13:29:38  <V453000> the issue is alpha, and having control over it
13:29:53  <Alberth> Wolf01:
13:30:28  <Wolf01> Yup, it seem to suffer from the gif-ify effect
13:30:48  <Alberth> right, so why not just fix alpha then, and then apply photoshop, gimp, whatever?
13:31:17  <V453000> because I want the alpha to actually do something, like if the pixel is pure black, but half-transparent, I want the output pixel to be half-gray
13:31:20  <Alberth> Wolf01: 1/11th original size is not for free :)
13:31:28  <Wolf01> +1
13:31:28  <V453000> idk if it actually makes sense to do
13:32:03  <Alberth> ok, fix alpha + colour then (for the non-opaque pixels)
13:32:13  <Wolf01> Mmmh, it will be gray only with a white background
13:32:44  <Alberth> ?
13:33:07  <V453000> fixing alpha + colour isn't really doable in any graphical program as far as I know
13:33:14  <V453000> well maybe
13:33:38  <Alberth> pretty simple in Pillow
13:34:00  <Alberth> and a whole lot simpler than colour conversion to 8bpp
13:34:19  <Alberth> although it can be fun to figure it how it works
13:34:36  <V453000> lets try and see
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13:49:09  <V453000> maybe defining x4 zoom 8bpp isn't a terrible idea either
13:55:10  <peter1138> we should've just stopped at 1x 8bpp :p
13:55:18  <peter1138> 32bpp is a waste
13:57:08  <V453000> +1 fuck all this
13:57:21  <V453000> it always looks better in the end anyway
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14:31:07  <Alberth> hmm, asking for the other end of a bridge while dealing with a tunnel, doesn't work :p
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14:36:02  <argoneus> good morning train friends
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15:27:54  <andythenorth> o/
15:28:15  <Wolf01> o/
15:28:22  <supermop_> yo andy
15:28:48  <supermop_> trump thread has been bike-shedded
15:29:57  <supermop_> time to play with trains then
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15:53:19  <Wolf01> XDDDD
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16:02:00  <Alberth> :D
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17:38:40  <supermop_> V453000: nice asiastar
17:38:49  <V453000> tanks
17:38:51  <V453000> working on moar
17:44:07  <V453000> it's far from finished but I will probably just plop down concepts of all trains now
17:44:13  <V453000> because I have sketches of all of them on paper
17:44:19  <V453000> and I can finalize them at some random points
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18:10:54  <supermop_> andythenorth: 136knh gondola shows no cargo sprites for wood or paper in arctic basic
18:14:08  <andythenorth> which roster?
18:14:32  <andythenorth> actually, it’s irrelevant, IH gondolas only show a tarp or bulk, currently
18:14:37  <andythenorth> working on that currently
18:15:01  <supermop_> hmm
18:15:12  <supermop_> a full car does seem to show a tarp
18:15:36  <supermop_> anything less than 35 t shows empty gondola
18:16:20  <andythenorth> plausible
18:16:33  <andythenorth> it’ll take a few days to get generated cargo working
18:19:00  <supermop_> hm?
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18:22:51  <Michaellaneous> I got a question about secondary track. I have 4 lanes each, two going in each direction.
18:23:08  <Michaellaneous> The two middle lanes have a junction for a station, the outwards two are supposed for train to pass through.
18:23:20  <andythenorth> bbl
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18:23:32  <Michaellaneous> How can I direct the trains onto the correct track? i.e. the trains that need to go to the station to the middle two, and the ones that need to pass to the outer?
18:24:38  <Michaellaneous> Ohhh, waypoints.
18:24:43  <Michaellaneous> Sorry, should have looked at the wiki earlier!
18:28:42  <Alberth> if you add a junction close before the station, trains passing through will try to avoid the platform
18:29:10  <Michaellaneous> That would be a good idea!
18:29:14  <Michaellaneous> But I don't build that was sadly.
18:29:16  <Michaellaneous> *way
18:29:24  <Michaellaneous> I have one main highway for trains.
18:29:28  <Michaellaneous> And all the stations branch off that.
18:29:33  <Michaellaneous> I it more that way.
18:29:49  <Alberth> that's ok :)
18:30:12  <Michaellaneous> Recently god back into the OpenTTD fevern.
18:30:19  <Michaellaneous> And with FIRS on extreme it scratches that special itch.
18:30:29  <Alberth> :o
18:31:16  <Alberth> distance stuff fixed already?
18:31:31  <Michaellaneous> What do you mean?
18:31:43  <Alberth> I had a few times where the industries to connect were ridiculously close to each other
18:32:19  <Alberth> they could have thrown the cargo over a tile themselves :p
18:32:30  <Michaellaneous> I am playing with normal industry density and I did not run into that problem.
18:32:52  <Michaellaneous> Actually, getting producting/manufacturing/consuming industries together in a chain is quite the challenge!
18:33:07  <Alberth> that's the idea :)
18:33:12  <Michaellaneous> Did you set FIRS to extreme or did you leave it on the default settings?
18:33:29  <Michaellaneous> Because extreme adds like 100% more industries and chains, so naturally they are much further apart.
18:33:38  <Alberth> I play FIRS extreme only with busy-bee
18:34:10  <Michaellaneous> Oh, does that set goals for cargo?
18:34:11  <Alberth> without that, I play a basic climate usually, with few industries
18:34:14  <Michaellaneous> Damn I gotta try that out.
18:34:32  <Alberth> yep it gives you small cargo goals to connect
18:34:49  <Alberth> "transport 25 tonne coal to  power station"
18:35:02  <Michaellaneous> Cool.
18:35:02  <Alberth> "transport 3500 mail to blah town"
18:35:15  <Michaellaneous> Speaking of connecting, is there a way to easily connect stations together?
18:35:22  <Michaellaneous> I had that problem with a drydock and a trainstation.
18:35:29  <Michaellaneous> Had to delete the trainstation because it was 1 tile apart.
18:35:34  <Michaellaneous> And cargo did not get shared.
18:35:43  <Alberth> building against each other works
18:35:51  <glx> only build with ctrl I think
18:35:59  <glx> no way to link them later
18:36:10  <Michaellaneous> Shucks.
18:36:12  <Alberth> other wise hold ctrl while building, and you get a window to select a station to connect from
18:36:16  <Alberth> *with
18:36:44  <Alberth> it does need some setting to be enabled, so if it doesn't work, check station settings
18:36:58  <Michaellaneous> KK
18:37:02  <glx> the usual magic ctrl key ;)
18:39:09  <glx> and deleting a station to rebuild it can be a problem if the town hates you
18:40:29  <Michaellaneous> Yep.
18:40:32  <Michaellaneous> but that was an industry.
18:41:14  <glx> in this case you can build a road station linked to the train station
18:41:35  <Michaellaneous> Oh, okay.
18:41:47  <glx> it's hacky but it works
18:41:48  <Michaellaneous> Also, how do you space your block signals?
18:41:50  <Michaellaneous> 12?
18:42:08  <Michaellaneous> I feel like 8 is way too narrow.
18:42:22  <glx> I use path signals
18:42:41  <Michaellaneous> Me too, but you know what I mean.
18:42:50  <Michaellaneous> On a perfectly straight track with no junctions.
18:43:06  <Alberth> 6 tiles or so, with 5 tile trains
18:43:31  <Michaellaneous> Ah, i use 8 tiles train.
18:43:42  <Alberth> but it's not fixed with me, I just play with whatever length it has, unless it's very short
18:44:32  <Alberth> I  play with breakdowns enabled, so I need lots of space at the track anyway
18:45:29  <Michaellaneous> I do too.
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27680 trunk/src/lang/romanian.txt (2016-11-12 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> romanian: 1 change by kneekoo
18:49:17  <Michaellaneous> see ya latetr
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18:49:29  <Alberth> bye
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20:05:27  <andythenorth> o/
20:24:27  <Alberth> n
20:24:35  <Alberth> I mean nn
20:24:45  <Wolf01> nn
20:24:48  <Wolf01> o/
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20:34:57  <Michaellaneous> sup
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23:40:38  <Wolf01> 'night
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