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Log for #openttd on 29th November 2016:
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09:08:13  <crem> moo/
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09:49:25  <Wolf01> o/
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13:17:29  <goodger> jgrpp 0.16.0 hooray
13:20:22  <crem> why are jgrpp patches not in the master branch? They seem good.
13:23:13  <goodger> the automatic scheduling in particular is nothing short of a godsend
13:23:26  <goodger> can't tell you how many things I tried to get even headways before
13:23:45  <goodger> though I note it doesn't work with buses or trams, if there's a 'go via' order
13:23:57  <goodger> works fine with rail waypoints though
13:48:32  <peter1138> i thought jgr was a dev at one point
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13:57:47  <goodger> he was certainly a ttdpatch dev when I knew him
13:58:51  <__ln__> i'm not aware of a jgr being a dev
14:00:06  <goodger> I remember arguing with him in... january 2010? about whether ttdpatch was still worth doing
14:01:04  <goodger> apparently I won that argument about three years later
14:01:36  <__ln__> does ttdpatch still contain features that openttd doesn't?
14:01:58  <goodger> at least one
14:02:16  <goodger> roads across tunnel mouths, off the top of my head
14:02:53  <__ln__> well then, clearly it is still worth doing.
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14:04:21  <goodger> my argument was, and remains, that the continued development of an inherently less accessible and, more than likely, much less maintainable version of the game is not a productive use of time
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14:19:55  <Wolf01> <__ln__> does ttdpatch still contain features that openttd doesn't? <- custom bridge heads
14:21:13  <peter1138> advanced signals
14:24:53  <Wolf01> I would like the yellow ones, as I only use pbs :P
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14:42:41  <supermop__> good morning
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16:24:43  <Alberth> o/
16:24:58  <Wolf01> o/
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18:20:00  <andythenorth> o/
18:20:06  <Alberth> \o
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18:24:26  <supermop__> YO
18:25:10  <andythenorth> LO SUPERMOP
18:25:15  <andythenorth> oh __
18:25:43  <supermop__> ALWAYS GAINING AND LOSING TAILS DUE TO SHITTY WORK INTERNET
18:25:57  <andythenorth> GET FIBRE
18:25:59  <andythenorth> or FIBER
18:26:34  <supermop__> HAVE IT AT HOME
18:26:54  <supermop__> HOME INTERNET MUCH BETTER THAN CHEAP WHATEVER MY BOSS BUYS
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18:30:12  <andythenorth> MY BOSS BUYS FIBRE FOR £9k PER YEAR
18:30:23  <andythenorth> ACTUALLY MY BOSS IS MY WIFE
18:30:34  <andythenorth> I BUY FIBRE FOR £9k PER YEAR
18:31:15  <andythenorth> that’s 0.45% of total turnover for two internet businesses :P
18:31:18  <andythenorth> peanuts
18:32:27  <supermop__> I AM SURE IT WOULD BE A NEGLIGIBLE EXPENDITURE, ALAS I AM WORKING ON A BOX WITH ONLY 8GB RAM AND OFFICE 2007
18:33:02  <andythenorth> 8GB RAM
18:33:06  <andythenorth> DEFINITELY NOT PRO
18:33:33  <V453000> MY WIFE FOR AIUR
18:33:57  <V453000> NUTS ARE PEAS
18:34:14  <V453000> ARE YOU PEAS?
18:34:22  <andythenorth> SUGAR ON YOUR PEAS MATE
18:34:36  <Alberth> some people ran out of lowercase letters?
18:35:18  <Alberth> pro tip: disable capslock entirely
18:37:16  <andythenorth> get a USB add-on for it
18:37:24  <andythenorth> like USB escape
18:37:26  <andythenorth> and with a dongle
18:37:34  <V453000> PRO AS FUCK
18:39:11  <andythenorth> V453000: sugar in ya peas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbvIcuWt754
18:39:21  <andythenorth> probably have NFI what that means :)
18:41:56  <supermop__> Alberth: annotating drawings in autocad
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18:43:03  <andythenorth> quak
18:43:09  <Alberth> quek
18:43:45  <frosch123> moi
18:44:33  <Wolf01> Quak, o/
18:44:40  <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/anyOyjb_460s.jpg <- andy
18:45:23  <andythenorth> saw it :)
18:45:26  <andythenorth> for multiiple reasons
18:46:13  <supermop__> i always wonder why governmental agencies still have enough faith in the internet to let it name their things
18:46:20  <andythenorth> I have a whole blog post about that
18:46:30  <supermop__> andy has a blog?
18:46:43  <supermop__> did you let the internet name some legos?
18:47:08  <andythenorth> “I” is the wrong pro-noun here http://blog.delib.net/boaty-mcboatface-and-the-perils-or-otherwise-of-public-participation/
18:47:13  <Alberth> he collects blog posts :)
18:48:30  <andythenorth> bloggy mcblogface
18:48:39  <andythenorth> ok so FIRS is standard industry code
18:48:41  <andythenorth> all templated
18:48:44  <supermop__> what does the internet name the bikeshed at the nuclear power plant?
18:48:56  <andythenorth> so why does the Fertiliser Plant not process Potash?
18:49:05  <supermop__> OH MAN ANDY
18:49:07  <andythenorth> but it does process the other input cargo
18:49:29  <supermop__> add a grey nuclear power plant just so it can have tiny CC bikeshed pls
18:49:37  <andythenorth> does FIRS have a subtlye production bug that nobody else has noticed
18:49:38  <andythenorth> ?
18:49:59  <frosch123> do you have other industries where the 3rd cargo is not a supply cargo?
18:50:11  <andythenorth> supermop__: we’d need a whole set of similes, metaphors, parables etc
18:50:18  <andythenorth> frosch123: this one varies by economy
18:50:24  <andythenorth> so it’s _probably_ that
18:50:34  <andythenorth> it only has one input cargo in the ‘default’ configuration
18:50:35  <supermop__> i guess the regular coal plant could have a bike shed
18:50:38  <andythenorth> ah, I can debug that
18:50:43  <andythenorth> thanks
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18:53:07  <frosch123> am it the only one who reads "garbage idea" as "garbage idea"?
18:53:12  <frosch123> *i
18:53:35  <andythenorth> yes
18:53:38  <andythenorth> I did a poll
18:53:40  <andythenorth> it’s just you
18:53:57  <frosch123> good :)
18:54:03  <Alberth> :)
18:56:03  <supermop__> me too frosch123
18:56:38  <andythenorth> industry production template doesn’t handle number of output cargos correctly
18:56:43  <andythenorth> doesn’t understand economies
18:58:11  <andythenorth> probably need a switch :P
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19:03:25  <supermop> have to fight the urge to pick a computer based solely on cuteness and resemblance to early 80s sony design alone
19:03:47  <supermop> i wonder if they sell a keyboard with the little nipple thing
19:04:31  <Wolf01> Buy a new 3DS, it have the nipple thing
19:05:35  <Alberth> with enough money, you can have as many nipples as you want
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19:07:54  <andythenorth> STORE_TEMP((economy==1) ? 2 : 1, var_num_output_cargos)
19:08:04  <andythenorth> 'economy' is a grf parameter
19:08:14  <andythenorth> what should happen? o_O
19:08:22  <supermop> usb thinkpad nipple dongle?
19:09:26  <Wolf01> https://www.crowdsupply.com/ugl/ultimate-hacking-keyboard this keyboard can have a nipple attachment
19:10:46  <Alberth> andy: it does for economy==1:  STORE_TEMP(2, var_num_output_cargos)
19:10:46  <Alberth> else STORE_TEMP(1, var_num_output_cargos)
19:11:07  <andythenorth> yup
19:11:10  <andythenorth> ok that’s correct
19:11:18  <Wolf01> http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/user/tp/tpmouse1.GIF lol, this feels uncomfortable
19:12:24  <andythenorth> ok, found the bug :|
19:12:30  <supermop> Wolf01: not exactly cheap
19:12:38  <supermop> and no numpad
19:13:02  <supermop> mouse is funny though
19:18:49  <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aRKLeY7_460s.jpg interesting... airrailtype?
19:25:17  <Wolf01> Somebody wants Out of the Park Baseball 17?
19:31:02  <andythenorth> ah, someone left me a comment
19:31:04  <andythenorth>  * ! IMPORTANT ! - there is no support for varying ratios by economy.
19:31:10  <andythenorth> that would be me, leaving comments for me
19:32:53  <Alberth> thanks your past self for these useful hints
19:33:00  <Alberth> *thank
19:34:57  <andythenorth> such FIRS bugs :)
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19:40:41  <Alberth> :)
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19:56:10  <andythenorth> Wolf01: wonder if this appears in Technic in a few years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kVc_cqO0Lw
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20:00:03  <frosch> that's a cat
20:00:36  <andythenorth> is cat
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20:39:33  <supermop> TOO UGLY?
20:39:34  <supermop> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-towers/m900/
20:40:53  <supermop> I KIND OF LIKE IT
20:41:21  <supermop> THE BLUE OF THE USB 3.0 HOLES COMPLEMENTS THE RED NICELY
20:42:48  <frosch> it does not seem to have super bright leds, so that is a plus
20:47:27  <andythenorth> supermop: at that price, you care about ugly? o_O
20:48:23  <supermop> frosch: anything that doesn't look like it came out of a late 90's high budget sci fi movie is prettier than average it seems
20:49:08  <andythenorth> just for comparison, here’s what you could buy for 8 with no GPU or HD http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-5-1-3-33Ghz-6-Core-16GB-RAM-NO-GPU-NO-HDD-Barebones-System-/301796090676?hash=item464472e334:g:yBYAAOSw4GVYNrLB
20:49:22  <andythenorth> that Lenovo thing is, on up-front cost, a bargain
20:49:44  <supermop> andythenorth: its going to take up a non negligible percentage of the volume of my apartment so no room for anything not pretty
20:50:08  <supermop> hence considering the tiny cute, non expandible thing
20:50:53  <supermop> is lenovo the one that got into hot water for some spyware shit last year?
20:51:29  <andythenorth> yes, but that’s not unique to them
20:51:33  <supermop> andythenorth: i think the cheese graters would sell for a few hundred quid just for an empty case
20:52:07  <supermop> if i saw a aluminum mac pro with not even a motherboard for  i'd probably buy it
20:52:25  <supermop> probably would pay over 100
20:53:01  <supermop> but i've also paid dearly for old sony radio alarm clocks that dont work anymore off ebay
20:53:46  <FLHerne> supermop: Downside of those things is they're not very upgradeable
20:54:04  <FLHerne> supermop: Non-ATX motherboard, 250W (possibly also non-standard) PSU
20:54:18  <FLHerne> (the Lenovo one)
20:54:37  <supermop> FLHerne: reviews seems to suggest throwing out the psu when buying new GPUs
20:54:54  <FLHerne> supermop: At 250W for the entire system, you'd have to
20:55:00  <andythenorth> supermop: the cheese grater is too big
20:55:10  <andythenorth> we had some
20:55:21  <supermop> not sure yet if i am going to get into some VR architecture vis. freelancing
20:55:29  <supermop> but i dont need two gpus yet
20:55:58  <supermop> if i do i can buy another computer and write down the cost
20:56:29  <supermop> right now i need something and can't wait till next year, and have no freelance income this year to write off against
20:56:40  <andythenorth> just buy this http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/FGEM2B/A/Refurbished-Mac-Mini-14GHz-Dual-core-Intel-Core-i5
20:56:46  <andythenorth> the spec is crap, but it’s small and quiet
20:56:55  <FLHerne> supermop: If upgradeability isn't an issue, why not get a Brix Pro or one of the higher-end NUCs?
20:57:39  <supermop> well i want to be able to run acad and rhino decently well, so i can work from home for regular job
20:57:44  <FLHerne> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx?s=47&ck=105
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21:01:31  <andythenorth> hmm, needs a lot more RAM that Lenovo thing
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21:01:58  <supermop> buy ram later
21:02:42  <andythenorth> fair
21:02:57  * andythenorth now lives in a world of soldered RAM
21:06:04  <supermop> yeah
21:06:14  <supermop> vaios you could change
21:09:25  * andythenorth has fixed all FIRS bugs
21:09:26  <andythenorth> ever
21:10:08  <Supercheese> Fix ALL the bugs
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21:10:21  <Supercheese> then fix the features
21:10:29  <Supercheese> then fix the fixes
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21:11:27  <Supercheese> no winter theme for the forums yet?
21:11:37  <Supercheese> had our first snow here already
21:17:18  <supermop> small form factor lenovo probably good enough if i dont do any vr stuff
21:19:20  <andythenorth> laptop not enough performance?  Or too expensive?
21:22:27  <supermop> i never carry my laptop around anymore
21:22:44  <supermop> and yeah, seems like money goes farther on a desktop.
21:23:06  <supermop> if i really needed a mobile workstation for work, ideally an employer would provide that?
21:23:38  <supermop> so putting off thinking about it until its an acute need
21:23:53  <supermop> at the moment my need is more 'a computer'
21:24:32  <supermop> was thinking of a surface book, but specc'd how i'd want, i can get a mobile workstation and a desktop for less total
21:25:17  <supermop> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/workstations/thinkstation/p-series/p510/?menu-id=p510
21:25:51  <andythenorth> well at least it has a DVD drive :)
21:25:55  <andythenorth> must be pro
21:26:52  <supermop> in a chicken and egg bind - i dont seek out freelance work because it would be a pain to get all the equipment and software id need at home,
21:27:22  <supermop> and i don't prioritize spending money on that stuff because i have no freelance work that requires it
21:28:36  <supermop> if i had 2500 sitting around burning a hole in my pocket i'd just travel somewhere with it
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21:29:36  <supermop> hmm don't know anything about xeon processors. should just pick the most expensive..
21:30:27  <andythenorth> standard :P
21:30:58  <andythenorth> I never understand how people buy PCs
21:31:09  <supermop> if i get 128gb of ram can i just have no hard drive and never turn it off?
21:31:17  <andythenorth> I used to (a) buy the cheapest Dell that wasn’t obviously crap (b) get someone else to do it :P
21:32:41  <Alberth> fast cpu, smallest possible disk, plenty of ram, done!
21:33:07  <Alberth> where smallest possible is around 1TB nowadays
21:33:31  <supermop> Alberth: PCIe ssd?
21:33:45  <Alberth> nah, just a normal HD
21:34:00  <Alberth> I have enough RAM to work in the disk cache
21:34:19  <andythenorth> supermop: how much will you spend? o_O
21:34:38  <Alberth> but, I program code, mostly editing plain text, and running a compiler
21:34:51  <Alberth> with a random chat window and web browser
21:35:22  <Alberth> nn
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21:36:43  <supermop> according to the xeon thing.... 3600
21:37:07  <supermop> sounds low, better add more pcie ssds
21:38:00  <andythenorth> how much will you sell it for in 2 years? o_O
21:38:47  <supermop> goes in personal junk museum
21:39:28  * andythenorth restarts Arctic Basic yet again
21:39:39  <andythenorth> keep finding broken industries, which means test game is borked :P
21:39:40  <supermop> seriously though, unsure about if i really need some kind of pro xeon workstation
21:39:46  <supermop> hmmm
21:39:51  <supermop> broken chains?
21:40:21  <andythenorth> if you freelance on day rates, you can’t charge more for having a faster computer
21:40:39  <andythenorth> but you can do better work in the same time
21:41:19  <supermop> can i sell my wife CPU /GPU time ?
21:41:36  <supermop> she runs models that take a while sometimes
21:42:17  <andythenorth> ‘every marriage is unique'
21:43:04  <supermop> she earns plenty freelancing with a just a 3 year old MBP
21:43:32  <supermop> but she's in a different, less stupid industry
21:44:06  <andythenorth> faster render = faster results
21:44:14  <andythenorth> faster results = happier client
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21:51:04  <supermop> if i get a tiny little thing, and then shortly buy something better to do real work on, the tiny guy can be relegated to be a htpc i guess
21:52:31  <andythenorth> conundrums eh?
21:52:57  <andythenorth> do the apps you use support network rendering?
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21:56:02  <supermop> hahah
21:56:18  <supermop> vray can
21:56:23  <supermop> flamingo can
21:56:27  <supermop> maxwell can
21:56:29  <supermop> but
21:57:21  <supermop> flamingo i can get cheap, but no one else uses, vray we have at work but is expensive for me to buy
21:57:53  <andythenorth> so your software costs are as high or more than the hardware costs? o_O
21:57:57  <supermop> but i think my work has a dodgy license and distributed rendering doesn't work
21:58:25  <supermop> vray seat will be more than any computer i'd get other than that xeon maxed out
21:58:43  <andythenorth> @200/365
21:58:48  <andythenorth> @calc 200/365
21:58:48  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.547945205479
21:58:55  <andythenorth> @calc 20/31
21:58:55  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.645161290323
21:58:58  <andythenorth> ach
21:59:13  <supermop> if i do freelancing, photorealistic static images aren't worth doing
21:59:14  <andythenorth> Photoshop costs more per month than the mac :(
21:59:34  <supermop> plenty of others out there can do better and cheaper
21:59:50  <supermop> i'd probably focus on VR/real time
22:00:03  <supermop> where there is growth and little competition
22:00:47  <supermop> if i am doing freelance design, i'd outsource and bill any photoreal renders beyond what i can easily do on one machine
22:01:43  <supermop> if i have a home renderfarm its going to be for openttd sprites as a added bonus
22:04:00  * andythenorth bed
22:04:01  <supermop> honestly right now a bottom end surface would be fine for almost everything i do non-work related
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22:04:20  <supermop> which is read tt-forums, play go, and play openttd
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22:37:05  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: do i need a real gpu for TF?
22:37:28  <Eddi|zuHause> how would i know... i don't have any comparison
22:38:50  <Wolf01> Better have it
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22:54:57  <supermop> sigh
22:55:32  <supermop> this essentially puts me in the position of buying a real computer as a transport fever appliance
22:55:52  <supermop> as there is no other need for such power at this time
22:58:30  <supermop> probably don't need two gpus though
22:59:51  <Wolf01> Buy a Nvidia 960 which now costs a shit
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23:00:29  <Wolf01> And you might be able to to VR too
23:02:44  <supermop> how much is a shit
23:03:18  <supermop> not an option on this site, so i'd have to buy elsewhere and deal with on board graphics until it arrives
23:03:39  <Wolf01> It's about 1/3 of the launch price
23:03:51  <Wolf01> ~180€
23:04:05  <Wolf01> 180-240
23:04:13  <supermop> hmm
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23:05:51  <Wolf01> On amazon is still about at 1/2
23:06:07  <Wolf01> Bot on third party sites you can find some interesting deals
23:06:14  <Wolf01> *but
23:06:30  <supermop> hmm
23:06:56  <supermop> what the hell is a fase hdd bracket
23:07:33  <supermop> on an old desktop i just had a 3.5" hdd sitting loose inside a 5.25" bay
23:07:46  <supermop> never was an issue
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23:22:01  <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ao2Wpqw_460s.jpg pretty much the right way to play it
23:24:09  *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
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23:36:30  <Wolf01> 'night
23:36:33  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
23:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause> ghandi with nukes is pretty much a "it's not a bug, it's a feature"...

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