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Log for #openttd on 30th November 2016:
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00:30:14  <goodger> well they've pushed out five games with it included, so one can assume it's now intentional
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01:34:40  <supermop> UGH
01:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause> five?
01:42:39  <goodger> at least five
01:42:48  <goodger> civ II to VI
01:43:08  <goodger> was a bug in the original caused by an integer underflow iirc, and since then it's been intentional
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02:09:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it's technically still an overflow, even if it goes below 0
02:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> underflow happens with floating point operations where values near 0 get treated as exactly 0
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02:33:32  <goodger> fair enoughly
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07:00:52  <dihedral> morning
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08:45:57  <crem> Добрай раніцы.
08:45:59  <crem> (moo/)
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11:47:57  <andythenorth> o/
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11:51:14  <V453000> sup yo
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11:56:45  <andythenorth> ships are PITA
12:00:32  <goodger> 'Ship 4 is lost' --- lies
12:01:43  <Eddi|zuHause> if you get "ship is lost" messages, you might want to change the pathfinder settings
12:02:54  <andythenorth> I need 150t ships
12:02:59  <andythenorth> I have 100t or 240t
12:03:08  <andythenorth> this is why ships are lame
12:03:23  <andythenorth> * one reason
12:03:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's a problem
12:04:29  <andythenorth> with trains, you add wagons
12:04:39  <andythenorth> with RVs, 30t-40t is the correct size, and you just add more
12:05:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i suggested ships with n*sqrt(2) size steps
12:06:01  <V453000> the fuck :D
12:06:04  <Eddi|zuHause> no
12:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> k*sqrt(2)^n
12:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so k is fixed an n travels from 1..inf
12:07:09  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. k=100 will give you 100t, 140t, 200t, ...
12:07:14  <V453000> so like 1, 1.41, 2, 2.8 ... ?
12:07:20  <V453000> right
12:08:02  <andythenorth> the downside, it’s much work to make a 100t ship visually distinct from a 140t ship
12:08:09  <andythenorth> whilst still being clearly of same ‘type'
12:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> just add pixels?
12:08:28  <V453000> make trains ? :)
12:08:32  <Eddi|zuHause> make it a few pixels longer
12:11:32  <andythenorth> reminds me of http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8207/fish_205.png
12:11:51  <V453000> WHICH WAS NICE XD\
12:12:10  <andythenorth> simples eh?
12:16:37  <Arveen> am i doing it right ? http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=e044559
12:18:07  <andythenorth> it will clip in depots
12:18:09  <andythenorth> but yes
12:18:45  <Arveen> :D
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12:30:54  <Wolf01> o/
12:31:54  <crem> o/
12:31:56  <crem> moo/
12:39:47  <Wolf01> o/
12:47:00  <Wolf01> Nice, other 2 games for free.. not new but remastered editions
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14:21:30  <andythenorth> ach ships
14:21:33  <andythenorth> something should be done :P
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14:45:12  <Wolf01> No ships, cats
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15:59:41  <Wolf01> o/
15:59:41  <Alberth> o/
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16:16:18  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
16:17:46  <Alberth> o/
16:33:47  <BluesInTheNet> good luck guys
16:37:10  <andythenorth> it is plausible that an industry tile check could pathfind to the map edge?
16:37:16  <andythenorth> in a reasonable time?
16:39:57  * andythenorth is trying to get a map where port-type industries are not trapped in enclosed seas 
16:40:06  <andythenorth> generated about 50 maps so far
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16:46:00  <Alberth> how do you do pathfinding in a newgrf?
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16:49:22  <andythenorth> this would be handled by openttd, it’s a variable
16:49:50  <andythenorth> for my case bool result would suffice, although they usually return a number (distance, count, whatever)
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17:04:10  <Alberth> worst case is a 4096^2 map, where the industry is in the center of the map, with water everywhere
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17:05:02  <andythenorth> probably pathological :P
17:05:24  <Alberth> quite :)
17:09:20  <andythenorth> I probably just have to keep generating maps :P
17:10:36  <Alberth> dig a canal to fix the problem :p
17:11:11  <supermop_> ANDY DOESNT WANT INLANF BULK TERMINALS?
17:11:39  <andythenorth> maybe we could adjust map gen :P
17:11:42  <SpComb^> Dock on a pond
17:11:45  <andythenorth> to not generate enclosed seas
17:12:03  <andythenorth> all tiles of height 0 must be contiguous
17:12:23  <SpComb^> yes, and there should be lakes at heights > 0
17:12:49  <andythenorth> $someone should fix map gen
17:16:55  <SpComb^> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5HPAOXDn8o&feature=youtu.be&t=353 "That's not a sea"
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17:22:58  <andythenorth> not a sea
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17:38:26  <andythenorth> Steeltown economy is a total PITA :D
17:38:32  <andythenorth> everything is connected
17:41:08  <supermop_> trump one bc of broken industry chains?
17:41:11  <supermop_> won
17:41:15  <supermop_> f
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17:44:42  <andythenorth> to get ensp I need about 9 inputs
17:45:15  <andythenorth> this is by design, but it’s very different to ‘basic’ games I’ve been playing
17:45:49  <supermop_> well there is scope for something between 'basic' and 'extreme'
17:47:16  <supermop_> tons of supplies flowing out of ports makes basic economies a bit too easy to have gung ho everywhere
17:47:30  <supermop_> beyond what even IH can easily carry
17:48:05  <supermop_> s i usually make the gung ho level produce a bit less
17:53:23  <andythenorth> try steeltown
17:53:27  <andythenorth> it’s pretty alpah though
17:53:30  <andythenorth> alpha *
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17:54:00  <supermop_> alpaca?
17:56:56  <supermop_> andean basic
17:57:32  <andythenorth> that’s tropic :P
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18:20:20  <supermop_> cold in andes
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18:27:41  <andythenorth> need a new climate
18:27:44  <andythenorth> desert + snow
18:28:06  <supermop_> bolivia
18:28:14  <andythenorth> https://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/951733/274297658/stock-photo-snow-cap-mountain-in-high-altitude-atacama-desert-in-bolivia-with-lagoon-274297658.jpg
18:28:18  <supermop_> joshua tree caifornia
18:28:21  <supermop_> utah
18:29:06  <supermop_> are you going to patch game to allow that?
18:29:44  <andythenorth> it could be done with a base set I guess
18:29:56  <andythenorth> would need a new snow transition tile
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18:42:42  <supermop_> then your desert would need to be grass
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19:03:37  <andythenorth> such industries need drawing
19:03:50  <andythenorth> basic oxygen plant, galvanising plant, slag grinding mill
19:03:56  <andythenorth> electric arc furnace
19:04:36  <andythenorth> shipyard, ore terminal
19:04:55  <andythenorth> much pixels
19:08:34  <supermop_> sheds
19:08:46  <supermop_> sheds and pipes
19:08:50  <supermop_> sheds and greeble
19:08:54  <andythenorth> lots of pipes
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19:09:28  <andythenorth> these are my current favourite industries: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#chemical_plant
19:09:31  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#pyrite_smelter
19:10:11  <andythenorth> so much newgrf to do :P
19:12:04  <supermop_> The terracotta block and shading makes it looks somehow too british?
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19:16:32  <frosch123> you like pipes
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19:17:06  <andythenorth> yarp
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19:20:11  <frosch123> i like the cement plant
19:21:17  <frosch123> also, apparently i never played basic temperate
19:21:30  <andythenorth> basic temperate is probably the nicest
19:21:40  <andythenorth> it’s like an upgraded default game
19:21:59  <frosch123> i know for sure that i never played extreme, but some of the industries that only appear in basic temperate look very unfamilar to me :)
19:24:20  <andythenorth> hmm, I could automate the industry graphics
19:24:24  <andythenorth> for the docs
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19:24:31  <andythenorth> I could write a sprite-comping routine in PIL
19:24:43  <andythenorth> someone will now post the XKCD
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19:36:40  <frosch123> i think we discussed automating them before
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19:36:52  <frosch123> do you still have the white.grf?
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19:42:32  <andythenorth> yes
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19:52:04  <andythenorth> ach, ship capacities
19:52:25  * andythenorth considers a ‘load factor’ refit option +/-25%
19:52:32  <andythenorth> even though subtypes suck
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20:02:47  <andythenorth> ach station refits can’t handle subtypes :P
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20:03:32  <andythenorth> shame, I already had an implementation for ship refittable capacity
20:03:39  <andythenorth> but I never use depot refit
20:10:05  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8208/sam-refits.png
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20:16:01  <Eddi|zuHause> just add a parameter to disable size refits, for people who want to use depot refits
20:16:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and depot refits should work, as long as all cargos have the same subtypes with the same name in the same order
20:20:29  <andythenorth> it’s station refits that aren’t supported
20:20:43  <andythenorth> they simply have no UI for subtypes
20:20:52  <supermop_> PATCH IT IN
20:21:09  <supermop_> FULL SCREEN ORDERS GUI
20:22:41  <andythenorth> station refit defaults to first subtype
20:22:53  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, that sounds wrong
20:23:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it should keep the subtype, like all the other features
20:23:57  <andythenorth> and what’s the default subtype of a vehicle? o_O
20:24:04  <andythenorth> …the first one :)
20:24:31  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can change the default in the depot, and if you clone, it should also keep the subtype...
20:24:36  <andythenorth> yes
20:24:43  <andythenorth> but that’s not how I play, so eh :P
20:24:49  <andythenorth> I never use depot refit, it’s a waste of time
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20:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: for the gui, it's an unsolvable problem, because more than one vehicle type can share orders, and they might not all have the same subtype, and you can autoreplace and stuff, which would also invalidate the order
20:25:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think you're having too specific of a use case in mind
20:26:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: of course, you could try to implement refitting direcly from the purchase menu ("there's a patch for that")
20:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> +t
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20:27:12  <supermop_> what is the use case here anyway
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20:28:42  <andythenorth> should I get a more vague use case? :P
20:28:55  <andythenorth> that sounds like a successful strategy ;)
20:29:55  <andythenorth> the deficiency I see is that station refit is crippled :)
20:30:00  <andythenorth> ok, so it’s already broken anyway
20:30:11  <andythenorth> but what’s the rationale for crippling it as well?
20:30:52  <andythenorth> I’ll ignore the silent breaking of orders, because eh, it’s not important :)
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20:38:42  <andythenorth> maybe I could patch the station refit
20:40:36  <andythenorth> maybe I could have a nap :)
20:47:49  <Alberth> do both?  :p
20:48:22  <__ln__> does "Abendkasse" have anything to do with Abend per se?
20:48:39  <andythenorth> Alberth: sleep-patching? o_O
20:48:55  <Alberth> dreaming about patching, perhaps :)
20:49:32  <Alberth> sleep-patching seems quite difficult to me
20:49:58  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it's generally assumed that concerts are in the evening, and the "abendkasse" thus is the place where you buy tickets directly before the concert
20:51:15  <Alberth> so, the answer is "yes" :p
20:51:32  <__ln__> looking at tickets to something that starts at 11am, and Abendkasse in that context sounded a bit weird
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20:56:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the answer is "yes, but nobody cared about the exceptions enough to change it"
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21:45:12  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: like the exception that buses don't actually run on tracks (bahn)
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21:46:05  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: well, you have a "Busbahnhof", but no "Busbahn" actually goes there...
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23:15:01  <Wolf01> 'night
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