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00:12:56 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:26:39 *** aard__ has quit IRC 00:43:42 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd 00:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop__: the dutch catenary grf pops into my head, but not sure... 00:47:08 *** chomwitt2 has joined #openttd 00:50:11 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 00:52:40 *** chomwitt3 has joined #openttd 00:53:36 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 00:59:06 *** chomwitt2 has quit IRC 00:59:08 *** chomwitt4 has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 01:05:36 *** chomwitt3 has quit IRC 01:05:58 *** chomwitt4 has quit IRC 01:08:43 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:10:54 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttd 01:16:06 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd 01:18:06 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:22:36 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 01:26:33 *** chomwitt2 has joined #openttd 01:29:59 *** chomwitt3 has joined #openttd 01:32:21 *** umgeher_ is now known as umgeher 01:33:04 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 01:36:26 *** chomwitt2 has quit IRC 01:39:30 *** chomwitt4 has joined #openttd 01:45:57 *** chomwitt3 has quit IRC 01:59:12 *** maciozo has quit IRC 02:07:13 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 02:09:04 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 02:15:34 *** chomwitt4 has quit IRC 02:17:34 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd 02:22:00 *** chomwitt2 has joined #openttd 02:24:01 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 02:28:15 *** Gja has quit IRC 02:28:27 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 02:30:39 *** lobstar has quit IRC 02:31:36 *** crabster has quit IRC 02:31:57 *** chomwitt2 has quit IRC 03:07:17 *** Fatmice has joined #openttd 03:28:05 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 03:38:58 *** glx has quit IRC 03:46:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 04:14:18 *** Smedles has quit IRC 04:19:59 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 04:45:31 *** XavierLight has joined #openttd 04:45:48 <XavierLight> Hey can anyone help me out with some plane problems? 04:46:57 *** XavierLight has quit IRC 05:41:47 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd 05:51:15 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 05:51:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 05:58:09 *** tokai has quit IRC 06:03:57 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:57:50 *** JezK_ has quit IRC 07:35:42 *** xdoL has joined #openttd 07:36:40 <xdoL> guys guys can vehicle_cost & construction_cost be set abysmally high from the .cfg ? 07:36:57 <xdoL> rather is there a way ? 07:38:19 <xdoL> trying to set a game for the long haul with really long day length and all, but the costs and interest is just too low. the game is too ez. 07:44:23 <xdoL> nvm found something that fixes my shiet 07:45:07 <peter1139> cool 07:46:35 <xdoL> well the .cfg file wasnt as flexible as i thought 07:49:18 *** dustinm` has quit IRC 07:49:37 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd 07:50:42 *** xdoL has quit IRC 08:04:39 <peter1139> there's stuff in there but i don't remember it all 08:04:48 <peter1139> but then there are already newgrfs for it 08:08:19 <peter1139> s/already/also/ 08:11:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:34:44 *** Fatmice has quit IRC 08:37:59 <Flygon> <xdoL> guys guys can vehicle_cost & construction_cost be set abysmally high from the .cfg ? 08:38:08 <Flygon> Is this guy trying to follow Victorian Government practice? 09:15:05 <crem> \o 09:29:25 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 09:31:50 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 09:42:12 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 10:03:55 *** Progman has quit IRC 10:08:05 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:08:10 <Wolf01> o/ 10:08:25 <ZirconiumX> \o 10:13:36 <frosch123> moi 10:15:59 <Wolf01> Mmmh... forgot to cut a chunk of facial hairs... 10:16:32 <Wolf01> I'm not used to do it, I usually have a lot of facial hairs 10:17:01 <V453000> anus? 10:20:01 <Wolf01> I prefer to not speak about that 10:20:10 <Wolf01> :D 10:22:21 <Wolf01> Btw... downloading Halo Wars... also job talk this afternoon... hyped as fuck 10:23:44 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 10:30:34 <Wolf01> Oh, today is even winter 10:35:38 <__ln__> how did you determine that 10:35:46 <Wolf01> Google 10:37:38 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 10:43:59 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 10:49:58 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 11:00:11 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 11:02:05 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 11:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> when i look out of the window, the side of the valley that is in the sun is green, and th side of the valley that is in the shade is white 11:03:39 <Wolf01> Same happens in my garden, the part in the shadow is white, while the part in the sun is green :P 11:11:51 <Wolf01> frosch123, I'm not getting the right gui sprites, I need to cleanup something? 11:12:22 <frosch123> i added the sprites to openttd,grf, but they are not used yet 11:13:00 <frosch123> though if you use roadtypeinfo.gui_sprites.convert_road it should be fine 11:13:06 <Wolf01> Ok, btw, I'm syncing the "convert-road" branch with the latest changes 11:13:22 <Wolf01> I see only question marks, both in the button and cursor 11:13:51 <frosch123> it worked when i put them in place of the autoroad button 11:14:41 <Wolf01> I'm still getting the message about missing sprites sterting the game 11:14:49 <Wolf01> Maybe that's the reason 11:14:53 <frosch123> ah, you need to select original graphics :) 11:15:01 <Wolf01> Ok 11:15:01 <frosch123> i did not add them to opengfx 11:41:01 *** Progman has joined #openttd 11:42:32 <Wolf01> Btw, how could we define the compatibility between roadtypes of the same type? For example ROAD vs HAUL 11:43:16 <Wolf01> I'm trying to write a IsCompatibleRoad() function but I can't figure out how 11:43:35 <frosch123> i don't understand the question 11:44:09 <Wolf01> When converting the roadtype, we should check if the new type is compatible 11:44:52 <Wolf01> Not only between powered-unpowered, but also because they have different track system 11:45:06 <frosch123> the equivalent to IsCompatibleRail is HasPowerOnRoad 11:45:45 <Wolf01> Eh, and if you want to convert ROAD to WETR? 11:45:50 <frosch123> "compatible" and "powered" is the same for road and tram 11:45:52 <Wolf01> Both are unpowered 11:46:25 <frosch123> ROAD to WETR is the same as rail to monorail 11:46:46 <Wolf01> Yes, but I don't have a way to check it 11:46:53 <frosch123> what do you mean with "both are unpowered"? 11:47:10 <Wolf01> They don't have catenary 11:47:17 <frosch123> "powered" has nothing to do with catenary 11:47:36 <frosch123> it just means whether a vehicle of one type can drive on track of some type 11:47:58 <Wolf01> Then the naming should be CanRunOnroad/Rail 11:48:16 *** aard has joined #openttd 11:48:33 <frosch123> don't invent new names for things where railtypes already have names 11:48:51 <Wolf01> I know they already are, but they are confusing 11:49:00 <frosch123> "compatible" means "can run on track, but cannot provide power, i.e. behaves like a rail wagon" 11:49:18 <frosch123> "powered" mans "can run on track, and can provide power, i.e. behaves like a rail engine" 11:49:39 <frosch123> since road vehicles have no wagons, both are the same 11:49:47 <Wolf01> It's like git where commit mean save a patch and push mean commit 11:54:46 <Wolf01> Also there's a mix of properties of the infrastructure and vehicle in the same place 11:55:12 <frosch123> same as for railtypes :) 11:56:11 <Wolf01> Yes, but it's not an excuse to avoid to use the right meaning of the words 11:56:26 <frosch123> i consider consistency more important 11:56:44 <frosch123> a single word never is fully descriptive 11:56:56 <frosch123> so you need to know the meaning anyway 11:57:42 <frosch123> i cannot tell whether CanRunOnRail means compatible or powered 11:58:01 <frosch123> so i do not see how it is better 11:58:31 <Wolf01> In fact it means both, that's why you need to have 2 functions with the right names 11:58:53 <frosch123> yes, those functions are called Compatible, and Powered 11:59:43 <Wolf01> But powered has "provides power from rail/catenary/magnets" in my head, because we are speaking about a rail 12:00:04 <Wolf01> But is instead a vehicle! 12:00:41 <Wolf01> For example IsPoweredRailType() is used in 2 different cases (both valid) while the docs tell to use it to check between vehicle and infrastructure, it's also used to check between infrastructure and infrastructure 12:01:08 <Wolf01> *IsCompatibleRailType 12:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause> what's confusing about that? 12:01:39 <Wolf01> The meaning 12:02:01 <Wolf01> Because reading the code and calling the variables A and B is easy to understand 12:03:55 <Wolf01> IsCompatibleRail(RailType enginetype, RailType tiletype); works even if you invert the arguments, with different legit results 12:05:12 <Wolf01> Calling them "cur_type" and "type_to_check_against" would be less confusing 12:05:30 <Wolf01> As when upgrading a rail you don't have an "engine" 12:05:34 <frosch123> i would claim the reverse :p 12:06:16 <frosch123> upgrading does not check whether one railtype can run on the other, but it is about checking whether "most" engines that ran on the old one, can run on the new one 12:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: if you think mathematically, it's like extending a comparison operator like "a<b" which is defined on numbers to sets of numbers, like a < {b,c,d} 12:06:55 <frosch123> convert rail is about checking compatibility of engines to tracks 12:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> an engine is like "a", and a railtype is like "{b,c,d}" 12:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> now you can also compare two sets {a,b,c} < {d,e} 12:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (meaning is: all elements of the first set are smaller than all elements in the second set) 12:08:53 <Wolf01> I'm not speaking about the functionality, I'm speaking about the names, the names are confusing 12:09:14 <frosch123> i don't think so, the names are fine 12:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm saying i'm not seeing your confusion 12:09:22 <frosch123> just convert rail uses them in a weird way 12:09:30 <Wolf01> ^ 12:09:39 <frosch123> convert rail does a simplified check whether an upgrade makes sense 12:09:56 <frosch123> instead it should run over all engine types, and count how many are compatible to old and new 12:10:15 <frosch123> the functions are really about checking engines vs track 12:10:30 <frosch123> that's what the game logic uses them for, and that's what newgrf authors use them for 12:10:49 <frosch123> convertrail just tries to make use of them, when deciding whether elrail->3rdrail conversion makes sense 12:11:37 <frosch123> as said, the intention of convertrail is to check whether engines, which were powered before, are powered afterwards 12:11:50 <frosch123> it does *not* check whether the tracktypes are compatible, because that makes no sense 12:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: yes, i think it's very much the same as what i tried to explain. the "normal" usage of "is compatible" is a < {b,c,d} where a is an enginetype and {b,c,d} is a tracktype. convert rail tries to extend that to sets of engines, so it tries to do {a,b,c} < {d,e} 12:12:52 <Wolf01> "IsEngineCompatibleRail", because with "IsCompatibleRail" I would look if the rail has the same gauge, shape, power type (magnets, catenary), which is the same of questioning if the vehicle which ran on the old one can run on the new one, but leaving out the vehicle 12:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not able to see what you find so confusing about this 12:14:00 <Wolf01> Languages difference maybe 12:14:23 <frosch123> i think the problem is that convertrail does not do an exact check, but an approximation 12:14:39 <frosch123> and wolf thinks that it would be an exact check and then complains that the check is not named like that 12:14:52 <frosch123> but it really is no exact check 12:14:53 <Wolf01> "The road in front of my house is powered" doesn't make any sense, I might answer "yes, there's light" 12:15:10 <frosch123> there is no exact check whether elrail is compatible to 3rdrail 12:15:24 <frosch123> some engines are powered on either, some on both, some on none 12:15:29 <Wolf01> The problem is that isn't the road which is powered, but it is my car which has power to run on it 12:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: no, that question doesn't make any sense, but nobody asks that question 12:15:53 <frosch123> yes, that's why it is an "appoximation", and not an "exact" check 12:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the usual question is "is this car powered on that road?" 12:16:25 <Wolf01> Nobody which knows the background of the functionality, with little docs I didn't figure out until now 12:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: and convert rail asks "are ALL cars which are powered on this road also powered on the new road?" 12:17:13 <Wolf01> For me "powered_railtypes" as proterty of a railtype didn't make any sense, and I thought it was related to catenary 12:17:24 <Wolf01> Instead is a vehicle property 12:17:28 <frosch123> it is not related to catenary 12:17:29 <Wolf01> In railtype 12:17:49 <frosch123> both compatible and powered are about vehicle -> tracktype relations 12:18:46 <frosch123> since tracktype and vehicletype definitions are usually independent, the vehicle/track interaction must be defined in one place, not in both 12:19:08 <frosch123> it was put into the track definition, and imho it is also a better place than the vehicles 12:19:29 <frosch123> it has has a lot more to do with which tracktypes are available, than with which vehicle types are available 12:21:54 <Wolf01> "bitmask to the OTHER railtypes on which an engine of THIS railtype generates power" and "bitmask to the OTHER railtypes on which an engine of THIS railtype can physically travel" taken those comments, what I understand is, a steam engine can physically travel in rail and elrail? yes, can generate power in both? yes -> compatible; an electric engine can physically travel in rail and elrail? 12:21:54 <Wolf01> yes, can generate power in both? no -> not compatible, why? misses catenary 12:22:19 <Wolf01> A boat can physically travel in rail? no -> not compatible 12:23:00 <Wolf01> That's my confusion 12:23:29 <Wolf01> Maybe I miss a train which can only travel in normal rail but not elrail 12:24:11 <frosch123> andy wanted to add that case for HAUL :) 12:24:31 <Wolf01> I know, and I didn't understand it 12:24:38 <Wolf01> Now I do 12:27:18 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/psrnlzd4d <- that's a typical rail example 12:30:12 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p8m1zbm2i <- same for roads 12:30:33 <frosch123> not that "only vehicletype" currently does not exist, but it may make sense to extend the spec to allow that 12:30:39 <frosch123> *note 12:37:03 <Wolf01> Too bad is not so easy to provide meaningful error messages 12:37:51 <Wolf01> For example you can't convert a road with elrail (tram) over it to haul because a "4 stories truck will collide with the tram catenary" 12:38:32 <Wolf01> Also I don't get why a mine truck couldn't generate power on road :P 12:39:03 <frosch123> don't try to make ottd smarter than the player 12:39:33 <frosch123> obviously the catenary is so low that it will easily go under the haul truck 12:39:36 <frosch123> so, no problem with conversion 12:40:20 <Wolf01> The game should charge your company each time a haul truck passes over the catenary for reconstruction :P 12:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> whether haul and tram can coexist on the same tile needs a new property outside the rail-derived compatible/powered 12:41:25 <frosch123> yeah, and it won't be eary if you want to allow over-head tram over canal road 12:41:29 <Wolf01> As we don't have even vehicles which can run on both road and tram (w/o road) 12:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> (and there should be separate properties for "can run along the same trackbit" and "can have crossing with") 12:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> for example, if i want a tram that can run along roads, and a speed-tram that cannot run along roads, only have occasional crossings 12:43:24 <Wolf01> That was one of my ponies for roadtypes 12:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> those are pure tracktype<->tracktype relationships, not vehicle->tracktype 12:43:44 <Wolf01> Along with roads without intersections 12:44:27 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/road_tram_crossing.png <- Eddi|zuHause: which of those flags is relevant for that? 12:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think anything other than an X crossing will ask for "can run along" 12:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but i'm not too sure 12:48:54 <Wolf01> About road without intersections, to resolve the problem could be that we introduce phisical infrastructures like sound barriers or fences? 12:49:02 <Wolf01> *physical 12:49:42 <frosch123> road fences like rail fences would make sense at some point 12:50:11 <Wolf01> I mean, placeable like the "one way" feature 12:50:33 <frosch123> that is what newobjects are for 12:50:47 <Wolf01> Newobjects can't be built on road 12:50:53 <frosch123> but next to road 12:51:00 <Wolf01> You can build around it but you waste a tile 12:51:13 <frosch123> anyway, we don't stack N things on top of a tile 12:51:40 <frosch123> that creates a very closed system where everything depends on everything 12:51:44 <Wolf01> Also with 2 close roads you can't build a newobject inbetween 12:52:28 <frosch123> roadtypes can check adjacent tiles, and draw appropiate borders 12:52:44 <Wolf01> But nobody stops you to build a crossing 12:52:47 <frosch123> but that kind of stuff won't be player placeable 12:53:14 <frosch123> yeah, but why would you stop someone from building a crossing :p 12:53:47 <Wolf01> Eyecandy, roadflow 12:54:14 <frosch123> well, we talked about that before. a "exclusive owned" thing makes more sense to me 12:55:03 <Wolf01> Yes, but still not sure, I would like to keep some paths open for the future 12:55:13 <frosch123> i think those things have to wait until we have *some* road and tramtypes 12:55:32 <frosch123> many of these interaction-checks assume some very specific types, and make no sense in any other context 12:55:52 <Wolf01> Agreed 12:56:17 <frosch123> the levelcrossing flag was also not added on 1st day 12:56:25 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 12:56:30 <frosch123> and for tram/road stuff seems to be a lot more complicated 12:56:59 <Wolf01> Some roadbits checking, I did many tries in these days with interesting results 12:57:42 <Wolf01> But without exactly knowing the meaning of the "powered_roadtypes" I wasn't able to properly do it 13:00:32 <Wolf01> Btw, the easiest pre-conversion check could be just "return IsPoweredRoad(A, B) ? IsPoweredRoad(B, A) : true;"? 13:00:50 <Wolf01> *false 13:01:24 <Wolf01> Derived from conversion cost 13:01:30 <frosch123> that is "IsPoweredRoad(A, B) && IsPoweredRoad(B, A)" ? 13:01:41 <Wolf01> Uhm, yes 13:01:44 <frosch123> i would expect "IsPoweredRoad(A, B) || IsPoweredRoad(B, A)" 13:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd save the "no crossings" thing for a "pipelines" type... 13:02:19 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, no crossing means also no T junctions of the same type 13:02:32 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: then i would save it for a "no gameplay" flag 13:02:44 <Wolf01> Could be the right name 13:04:01 <Wolf01> ROTF_NO_GAMEPLAY... what if we want more than one "no gameplay" to stack? 13:04:32 <Wolf01> I'll just fall back to ROTF_ONLY_OWNER 13:04:49 <Wolf01> So one could do whatever it wants without external interferences 13:08:45 <Wolf01> I've looked at vehicle movement too, to do what I want the thing needs some (read "a lot") refactoring 13:09:05 <Wolf01> Or maybe some hiding of the array 13:09:17 <Wolf01> Like the RoadTypeInfo 13:10:30 <Wolf01> Got to go, I'll be back in the evening 13:10:34 <Wolf01> Bye 13:10:37 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 13:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: how is "pipline" more "no gameplay" than people running A-B connections with one single train and no crossings? 13:11:50 <frosch123> because i can safely ignore the latter 13:13:17 <frosch123> pipelines are also the worst part of factorio 13:13:31 <frosch123> though there are myths that it is changed to something different 13:13:37 <frosch123> though no idea what different 13:15:26 <frosch123> as myths go, it could as well just be the colour that is changed :p 13:19:46 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 13:34:26 <V453000> lol myths 13:35:01 <V453000> pipes are the same as before 13:35:10 <V453000> except graphics 13:35:33 <frosch123> wasn't there something about preventing auto-join neighbouring pipelines? 13:35:47 <V453000> it's been talked about but nobody did it yet 13:35:58 <frosch123> yeah, "myths" :) 13:36:29 <crem> pipes? Is pipeline transport finally in openttd? Can I pump oil? 13:36:55 <frosch123> crem: there are newgrf, which add a pipeline railtype, and invisible engines that run on it 13:37:01 <frosch123> some people even play with that :) 13:37:36 <crem> That's not quite right pipes. :) 13:38:12 <crem> anyway, I didn't play openttd for years. Tried recently to play some scenarios, but none of them happen to have required dependencies available. 13:38:22 <frosch123> well, pipelines and electricity lines are even more boring than aircraft 13:38:38 <V453000> xd 13:38:39 <frosch123> aircraft are vehicles without track, pipeline/wire is track without vehicles 13:38:55 <V453000> BUT BELTS 13:39:16 <frosch123> add belts with 3 lanes :) 13:39:18 <V453000> openttd needs belts 13:39:40 <V453000> shame railtypes can't animate 13:40:07 <frosch123> we need multicore support for animating railtypes :) 13:42:13 <V453000> easy 13:42:27 <V453000> just check [ ] multithreaded game in game engine editor 13:43:06 <V453000> next problem ? 13:43:25 <frosch123> artists with more hands 13:43:31 <V453000> haha yes 13:44:00 <V453000> I actually ordered a new pen tablet pc few days ago 13:44:10 <V453000> might start drawing for openttd when in metro/bus 13:44:24 <frosch123> is it table with display, or separate tablet and display? 13:44:26 <crem> Do artists for newgrf mostly doing pixel art or 3d modelling? 13:44:35 <V453000> basically a laptop without keyboard 13:45:06 <frosch123> when i used a pen, it felt very weird to draw in front of you, but look at some other screen 13:45:17 <V453000> well yeah that's what I have been using until now 13:45:20 <V453000> it isn't that bad tbh 13:45:36 <V453000> but now I will be touching the screen :) I can even connect it to a normal PC to only use the pen display 13:46:52 <V453000> crem: it depends, but most graphics are pixel "art" 13:52:57 <Redirect_Left> Hm 13:53:08 <Redirect_Left> Is it possible to alter the production of an industry based on season 13:53:14 <Redirect_Left> well, months I guess, openttd doesn't know what a season is 13:53:41 <Redirect_Left> I'm trying to implement a theme park and other attractions GRF, that produces lots of passengers in summer, then drops to almost 0 during winter months 13:53:44 <peter1139> ok 13:53:45 <Redirect_Left> as they much would do in realirty 13:54:41 <peter1139> what's the german version of "happy birthday"? 14:02:01 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:02:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 14:08:55 <ZirconiumX> peter1139: "Zum Geburtstag viel Glueck" 14:15:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:15:41 <andythenorth> o/ 14:16:12 <crem> \o 14:17:35 <ZirconiumX> \o 14:18:23 *** Compu has quit IRC 14:21:15 <V453000> peter1139: blitzkrieg 14:22:44 <frosch123> Redirect_Left: yes it is possible, alpine climate did implement that for farms, possibly ecs as well, and it sucks for gameplay 14:23:23 <Redirect_Left> as long as you're paying attention and set up timetables, shouldn't affect suckability really 14:23:46 <Redirect_Left> i can only foresee that if I (i don't release anything, so I) stop paying attention to date 14:24:08 <frosch123> the problem is what to do with the vehicles in winter 14:24:19 <frosch123> but true, maybe timetables improved the situation 14:24:42 <frosch123> back then there was only full-load, so either you played without fullload or vehicles were waiting at 90% loaded during winter 14:27:41 *** Compu has joined #openttd 14:30:14 <andythenorth> ho 14:30:16 <andythenorth> much logs 14:30:27 <frosch123> quantity != quality :p 14:30:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: supermop made lots of sprites :) 14:31:06 <andythenorth> I saw :) 14:34:53 * andythenorth gets to end of logs 14:35:03 <andythenorth> one of those discussions eh? :) 14:35:07 <andythenorth> moar pipelines 14:35:14 <andythenorth> moar unitised transport, with constraints 14:48:11 <supermop__> pallet animate belts? 14:48:41 <supermop__> andythenorth: how to show power/not power on tram and road cursor 14:49:02 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 14:49:04 <supermop__> or just not show? tram depot cursor just shows a regular road depot 14:49:41 <frosch123> imho "don't show" :) 14:50:03 <supermop__> ok 14:50:11 <supermop__> user can infer from context 14:50:37 <supermop__> just like most rail newgrf show plain rail cursor regardless of speed limit etc 14:50:53 <frosch123> i am unsure about the road depots in the viewport though 14:51:05 <frosch123> currently there is a road depot without catenary, and a tram depot with catenary 14:51:16 <andythenorth> not show 14:51:18 <andythenorth> not needed 14:51:22 <frosch123> i tried to use the tram depot for road with catenary, but the sprites include rails 14:51:39 <supermop__> thats easy enough to photoshop if you want me to 14:52:08 <supermop__> other option is to make all tram depots look more like the train depot but wider 14:52:25 <frosch123> i would be less worried about adding sprites to the default game, if the basesets were actually maintained :) 14:52:38 <supermop__> where is planetmaker ? 14:52:48 <supermop__> doesn't he do ogfx? ish? 14:53:05 <frosch123> as it is now, we will get 10 reports in the first week that zbase shows a "please upgrade" message when starting ottd when there is no upgrade 14:53:30 <supermop__> i mean we could make a zbase extra? 14:53:30 <frosch123> maybe Eddi|zuHause finishes his patch that at least the gui icons are always used from openttd.grf 14:53:37 <frosch123> but for depot sprites that does not really work 14:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i what? i don't know that word :p 14:54:47 <supermop__> like is there a method to fall back to a different base set or extra grf if sprites are missing? is that your idea Eddi|zuHause ? 14:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure i suggested that a few years ago... 14:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> there was never any work on a patch as far as i can tell 14:56:46 <supermop__> otherwise i mean, its not really your problem frosch123 , if users complain about zbase, tell them to use ogfx 14:57:11 <supermop__> or to update / fork zbase themselves 14:57:37 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:57:49 <frosch123> yup, about 50% of people who mail at info@openttd.org do not get a response, because they do not duckduck for an answer first 14:58:07 <supermop__> really, depot building and depot floor should be separate sprite though 14:58:52 <frosch123> http://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/raw-file/daf280c56930/media/extra_grf/tramtracks.png <- 49 and 51 are the problem 14:58:59 <frosch123> wall and tracks 14:59:28 <frosch123> in theory one could mix the wall from the road depot, and the top of the tram depot 14:59:41 <frosch123> but who knows what that looks like in other basesets 15:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think something's wrong with mime types there 15:00:16 <supermop__> frosch123: thats what i am suggesting 15:00:39 <supermop__> but, one could remove the tracks from 49 and have just the bit of wall 15:01:05 <supermop__> and have game take the U from the regular tram end of line bit 15:01:16 <frosch123> yeah, that is also an option 15:01:30 <supermop__> probably most flexible 15:01:36 <frosch123> resp, that is what is done for roadstops 15:01:48 <supermop__> lmk what you want me to photoshop 15:02:07 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 15:02:50 <frosch123> i don't think we need new sprites for the basegame right now 15:03:01 <frosch123> maybe andy has new track types in mind :) 15:06:09 <supermop__> fair enough 15:06:41 <supermop__> also i can live with transformer and insulator on top of my non-powered tram depot for now 15:09:42 <planetmaker> hm, I heard my name whispered 15:10:21 <supermop__> sorry planetmaker 15:10:27 <planetmaker> no need to be sorry 15:11:08 <supermop__> was discussing messing with the base sets 15:11:34 <planetmaker> I haven't been quite following the discussion lately, I have to admit. Can you frame me in? 15:12:19 <supermop__> well base sets only provide a tram depot with both tracks and wires, and a road depot with neither 15:12:41 <supermop__> ofc a new grf could add a new depot 15:13:10 <supermop__> but it seems that the tracks should be drawn separate from the tracks 15:13:24 <supermop__> oops, tracks separate from the building 15:14:00 <supermop__> so you can combine from existing sprites to get powered road, or unpowered tram, etc 15:14:59 <supermop__> in this case the depot would take it's tracks from the regular tram U overlay, rather than as part of the sprite that contains the back wall 15:15:01 <crem> If I want to move old trains into "museum area", is it possible to disable "train is old" notifications for them? (for individual trains, not globally) 15:15:07 *** Sharkman has joined #openttd 15:15:11 <Sharkman> hello 15:16:50 *** Sharkman has left #openttd 15:17:17 <supermop__> sharkman - he left us too soon 15:17:27 <supermop__> crem: no 15:17:34 *** Sharkman_ has joined #openttd 15:17:39 <supermop__> yessss 15:17:53 <supermop__> hello Sharkman_ 15:17:56 <Sharkman_> hi 15:18:09 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:18:40 <Sharkman_> ive been looking at tutorials for newgrf's but all are just programming, whats the thing where you change the way the game looks? 15:19:12 <frosch123> supermop__: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nrt_depot.png <- i removed the tracks from the baseset 15:19:18 <frosch123> and drew them as separate layer 15:19:44 <supermop__> nice 15:20:09 <supermop__> you are making me redundant frosch123 15:20:22 <frosch123> i can draw some blue pixels :) 15:20:24 <supermop__> Sharkman_: also newgrfs 15:20:43 <Sharkman_> yeah but is there guides on making the graphics and not doing the programming? 15:20:43 <supermop__> but you must write some code to tell the game how to change how it looks 15:20:57 <andythenorth> to make the graphics, you just draw 15:21:00 <supermop__> with NML the code is less hard 15:21:04 <andythenorth> but with the right palette 15:21:10 <supermop__> Sharkman_: what andy said 15:21:21 <Sharkman_> okay i guess, i have no talent in coding or graphics, I just want to make toyland into somthing else lol 15:21:25 <andythenorth> fair 15:21:34 <andythenorth> ‘anything but toyland' 15:21:43 <supermop__> technically you don't need to use a pallette anymore, but it looks better if you do most of the time 15:21:49 <frosch123> Sharkman_: then use one of the many sets "turn toyland into something else" as base for your work 15:22:02 <Sharkman_> okay thanks, where can i find one? 15:22:06 <supermop__> Sharkman_: do you have some ideas, or just anything different will do 15:22:14 <Sharkman_> i have osme ideas 15:22:32 <supermop__> i think there was a mars conversion? 15:22:41 <Sharkman_> yeah ill use that thanks 15:22:44 <frosch123> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx-mars <- i have no idea how complete that is 15:23:03 <frosch123> but depending on whether you want to do landscape or vehicles, you can also look at the other vehicle or landscape grfs 15:23:09 <supermop__> you can look at the pixel sprites and draw over them in mspaint or something 15:23:12 <Sharkman_> thanks 15:23:23 <supermop__> if you want to make small, easy changes 15:25:10 <Sharkman_> how would i decompile the grf file into sprites? 15:27:32 <supermop__> uh there is a command line tool that does that, but its easier for most projects to just use the source 15:27:59 <supermop__> mars project frosch mention will have sources at that location 15:28:16 <supermop__> opengfx also will have its sources on that site 15:29:03 <supermop__> so you can just get a png of the relevant sprites instead of a huge pcx of every sprite in the grf 15:29:30 <MonkeyDrone> frosch123: is it possible to only change the time-line on server-side by patching it with longer days and client is still able to connect with it's standard client? 15:29:35 <MonkeyDrone> o/ everyone 15:29:52 <supermop__> generally any GPL project should have the sources available somewhere or by request 15:30:22 <supermop__> and if it is closed source, you are kind of in a grey area to modify the sprites 15:30:46 <frosch123> MonkeyDrone: no 15:30:54 <MonkeyDrone> ok , thank you. 15:32:19 <supermop__> today wife quits her job 15:32:23 <frosch123> MonkeyDrone: best you can do is to make all vehicles available (by adding 10000 to the date) and then using the "hide engine" option to filter vehicle lists 15:32:43 <frosch123> MonkeyDrone: the server can then possibly also reject build commands to build those vehicles 15:33:07 <frosch123> supermop__: moving to europe? 15:33:13 <frosch123> :p 15:33:25 <MonkeyDrone> ah, ok. Thanks frosch123. I was just looking into options on how much you can modify the server without needing a custom client. 15:33:33 <supermop__> haha not yet 15:33:46 <supermop__> she is taking a different job 15:35:18 *** aard has quit IRC 15:44:31 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:47:27 *** BluesInTheNet has joined #openttd 15:51:56 *** maciozo_ has joined #openttd 15:53:59 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 15:53:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:54:05 <Alberth> o/ 15:54:09 *** maciozo has quit IRC 15:54:11 *** maciozo_ is now known as maciozo 15:54:34 <supermop__> yo Alberth 15:54:47 <ElleKitty> *waves waves* 15:56:21 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nrt_catenary_continuation.png 15:56:51 <frosch123> with the default catenary it is almost invisible :p 15:58:19 <supermop__> frosch123: often i have trouble seeing trolly wire over roads in real life! 15:58:44 <Alberth> as long as you don't touch them, it's fine :) 15:59:20 <supermop__> because trolley wire is not catenary - it doesn't have the extra catenary support wire - its just a thin wire with minimal support, so it often blends into the background 16:00:01 <supermop__> i guess most neighbors would complain if there was a huge mess of wires right outside their window 16:01:05 <frosch123> aren't overground wires quite common in us towns? 16:01:09 <supermop__> https://www.instagram.com/p/p2YDFOjwsg/ 16:01:15 <supermop__> can't even see them 16:01:51 <supermop__> frosch123: they were more common until the 1950s. NYC used underground power 16:02:19 <supermop__> none of the surviving or new US tramways have underground electric power 16:02:36 <supermop__> SF has one line that uses underground cable haulage 16:02:48 <frosch123> hmm, how does that work? 16:02:58 <frosch123> how does the engine get to the power? 16:03:23 <supermop__> in SF the 'cable car' has a gripper that grabs onto a continuously moving loop of cable 16:03:51 <supermop__> grip on to move forward, let go to slow down - better for very steep hills 16:04:50 <Sharkman_> http://i.imgur.com/gRDnwXO.png would this work as a spritesheet 16:04:57 <supermop__> frosch123: underground electric, the tram has a blade that sticks down through a slot into the vault, and contacts a 3rd rail 16:06:30 <frosch123> ah, via a blade 16:07:05 <supermop__> http://dewi.ca/trains/conduit/n08_01.jpg 16:07:37 <supermop__> http://www.hawthorntramdepot.org.au/papers/img/strickland3.jpg 16:08:40 <supermop__> the problem is of course the conduit occasionally gets full of trash or dirt 16:10:33 <frosch123> no leaf trees allowed :) 16:11:24 <supermop__> also the part in the conduit is wider than the slot, so if the tram breaks, you must tow it to the next access hatch to get it unstuck 16:13:10 <supermop__> http://nycsubway.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/i46000/img_46021.jpg 16:14:05 <supermop__> the square panel next to the tram on the right track is the access hatch 16:14:29 <frosch123> he, "air conditioned" on the front :) 16:15:34 <supermop__> advertising works! in a hot city summer, air conditioned tram sounds nice - many subway trains did not yet have AC at that time 16:16:05 <supermop__> although the photo looks like early march, not august 16:16:34 <frosch123> too little green for august :) 16:17:15 <supermop__> so hopefully the tram also has heat 16:18:08 <supermop__> Sharkman_: yes 16:18:21 <Sharkman_> yay 16:42:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:42:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:43:06 <Alberth> o/ 16:43:23 <supermop__> frosch123: alternate power methods for tram could be interesting 16:43:57 <supermop__> not much gameplay impact other than frustrating players who choose the method that later becomes obsolete 16:44:50 <supermop__> 120 years ago people didn't know that overhead wire would win, but any player would know not to chose the conduit trams 16:45:15 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 16:45:19 <Wolf01> o/ 16:45:21 <Alberth> o/ 16:46:55 <Wolf01> So "a developer dog is not seen every day" "I'm a wolf" "you seem interesting, we'll might call you after holidays" 16:47:09 <Markk> \o 16:48:24 <supermop__> unless tall, oversized trucks cannot drive under trolley wire, then underground current is better 16:49:18 <Markk> Especially when a kid runs amok and touches the underground current. 16:49:20 <Wolf01> Underground road type, you provide only overlay with terrain tiles... I don't know how it will work on intersections 16:49:25 <Markk> Flying kid! 16:49:44 <Wolf01> Btw, any news? 16:50:44 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 16:53:53 <supermop__> Wolf01: the idea is for trams that get their power from a slot in the pavement - was popular in the earlier 20th century 16:58:05 <Alkel_U3> well, modern variation on that is apparently emerging 16:58:07 <Alkel_U3> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply 16:59:32 <supermop__> the frnch system is cool 17:09:36 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:13:53 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:15:17 *** MonkeyDrone is now known as mi-gaming 17:19:31 <_dp_> hi, is there any grf for toyland industries, preferably ground aware? 17:19:42 <_dp_> like opengfx+ industries but for toyland 17:23:59 *** lobstar has joined #openttd 17:24:05 *** mi-gaming is now known as MonkeyDrone 17:24:08 <Alberth> I am not aware of such a newgrf 17:24:09 *** lucy has quit IRC 17:24:21 *** lucy has joined #openttd 17:27:22 <V453000> I think YETI does reuse ground tiles _dp_ :P 17:31:56 <V453000> but in general newgrf authors are assholes towards toyland 17:32:00 <V453000> discrimination and stuff 17:32:17 <_dp_> yeah, YETI is my backup plan) 17:32:40 <_dp_> rly don't want a 200Mb download in one-time event though 17:33:14 <V453000> everybody should already have it downloaded Obviously! :D 17:33:17 <V453000> yeah I understand your point 17:33:46 *** lucy has quit IRC 17:33:46 <V453000> what's wrong with default toyland industries though? :) 17:34:33 <Alberth> they're in the wrong climate :p 17:34:50 <_dp_> exactly) 17:35:14 <V453000> oh you want to move toyland industries to another climate 17:35:35 <V453000> btw are you aware that you can use japanese landscape in toyland? 17:35:36 <_dp_> I thought it's easier to move toyland indusries to arctic than arctic landscape to toyland) 17:37:43 <_dp_> Yeah, I considered japanese landscape but I like alpine one more 17:38:00 <_dp_> Also would be nice to have toyland industries as grf coz they r awesome) 17:38:54 *** BluesInTheNet has quit IRC 17:43:23 <V453000> yez 17:47:26 <frosch123> Wolf01: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nrt_catenary_continuation.png <- i've added the catenary continuation check 17:48:04 <frosch123> Wolf01: so, they explored your github résumé? 17:48:34 <Wolf01> Nah 17:49:00 <Wolf01> I only said I like to give you headaches with patches 17:50:43 *** Sharkman_ has quit IRC 17:53:53 <frosch123> _dp_: i guess easiest option with existing grf is to play in toyland, and add something like "ghat landscape" 17:54:54 <frosch123> or japan set landscape 17:55:40 <frosch123> hmm, oh, recent japan landscape does not work in toyland 17:56:47 *** staticfunk has joined #openttd 17:57:13 <_dp_> frosch123, I want snow! :p 17:57:30 <frosch123> oh, right 17:57:34 *** staticfunk has left #openttd 17:57:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:57:43 <frosch123> yeah, then a new newgrf which enables toyland indutries in arctic 17:57:51 <_dp_> if it was only for removing crazy checkboard there is always temperate replacement grf 17:58:05 <frosch123> not sure whether houses would automatically accept sweets and fizzy drinks 17:58:27 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:58:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause> if they replace mail/food/goods? 18:01:34 <frosch123> mail is mail 18:01:40 <frosch123> sweets is supposed to be food 18:01:46 <frosch123> fizzy drinks is supposed to be goods 18:02:28 <_dp_> And I'm using swedish houses... 18:02:40 <_dp_> Well, was thinking of adding some houses anyway 18:02:51 <Wolf01> Strange, I always supposed they were a byproduct of refinery 18:03:11 <Wolf01> Aren't toys the goods? 18:04:38 <frosch123> toys go to toyshop 18:04:54 <frosch123> the house acceptance is the tricky part 18:05:25 <Wolf01> We need a more modular system 18:05:45 <_dp_> drinks have same id as arctic food 18:06:15 <_dp_> and candy is goods 18:06:26 <frosch123> oh, so the other way around 18:07:59 <_dp_> what happens if I use GOOD and SWET in my grf? will it be the same cargo or different ones? 18:09:18 <frosch123> in a newgrf you have to decide which to use 18:09:28 <frosch123> the duplicate ids only affect default stuff 18:13:42 <_dp_> What's pnml file extension for? 18:14:03 <Alberth> partial nml file 18:14:25 <Alberth> ie the C preprocessor merges them into an nml file 18:14:46 <_dp_> how it it different from full one? just odesn't have grf block? 18:15:08 <Alberth> the #include, and #define macros get expanded by the C preprocessor 18:16:57 <_dp_> oh, so it doesn't expand macros in regular nml? 18:17:14 <Alberth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_preprocessor 18:17:27 <Alberth> regular nml has templates 18:17:33 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:18:18 <Alberth> and yes, it would be nice if nml had more macro capabilities 18:19:43 <_dp_> so, pnml is not a nmlc format but something that build system in particular grfs introduce? 18:23:29 <frosch123> yes 18:23:45 <frosch123> cpp is used to combine multiple pnml files into a single nml file 18:24:10 <_dp_> print(open("toyland_industries.pnml").read()) 18:24:17 <frosch123> you can find that nml file usually also on bundles.openttdcoop.org 18:24:18 <_dp_> that will do xD 18:24:18 <frosch123> next to the grf 18:25:15 <_dp_> yeah, I wanted to use include and remebered that I saw it there 18:26:13 <Alberth> andy uses Python to generate nml 18:26:55 <_dp_> me too 18:45:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27702 trunk/src/lang/russian.txt (2016-12-21 19:45:40 +0100 ) 18:45:51 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 18:45:52 <DorpsGek> russian: 16 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:50:17 <supermop__> so frosch123 are the gui sprites working in nrt now? 18:50:40 <frosch123> i added them and tested them, but the function itself is not available yet 18:50:55 <frosch123> except in some hidden wolf work space 19:03:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:03:25 <andythenorth> o/ 19:04:03 <andythenorth> regular nml ought to have macros, or at least includes 19:04:07 <andythenorth> but eh 19:04:22 <andythenorth> doing the cpp style includes is probably a trivial patch 19:04:47 <Wolf01> <frosch123> except in some hidden wolf work space <- https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/tree/convert-road 19:04:51 <andythenorth> nml already seems to know about them, or at least it knows which included file to blame when a compile fails 19:05:01 <andythenorth> it finds correct line number, unless it’s make doing that 19:05:01 <Wolf01> Misses the last 3 commits 19:05:46 <Wolf01> I'm too lazy to connect the external dvd player to get the original graphics from cd 19:06:08 <Wolf01> So I'm doing with opengfx which doesn't have the icons :P 19:06:59 <supermop__> Wolf01: i drew ogfx icons 19:08:13 <Wolf01> But they aren't on the repo yet 19:08:18 <frosch123> yes, but we did not add them to ogfx :) 19:08:28 <frosch123> it's already enough to have forks for ottd and nml 19:08:37 <frosch123> ogfx can wait for trunkification 19:09:10 <Wolf01> Dinner 19:11:13 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:12:36 <andythenorth> ogfx can wait :D 19:12:46 <andythenorth> or other people can join the party 19:13:09 <supermop__> ;_: 19:23:14 <frosch123> well, after trunkification and release we will have to close flyspray and infio@ for 2 months :p 19:23:39 <frosch123> zbase noobs very already super annoying last time 19:26:26 <andythenorth> closing flyspray is “probably fine” 19:26:38 <andythenorth> I am surprised anyone answers info@ :o 19:26:45 <andythenorth> but andythenorth doesn’t do email anyway 19:29:11 <frosch123> info@ is 50% legit spam, 25% real spam, 15% questions that did not find the forums, 5% opensource stuff, 5% other stuff 19:31:20 <Rubidium> don't forget to fork grfcodec ;) 19:31:49 <andythenorth> that is definitely at the top of the to-do list 19:32:15 <andythenorth> Rubidium: it works fine with NotRoadTypes 19:32:18 <andythenorth> you just have to use -d 19:34:02 <Rubidium> or rather the "must-not-use-white-spaces-while-developing" tool that is also in the grfcodec repository 19:35:13 <andythenorth> $someone told me to not bother using that anymore :) 19:38:56 <frosch123> hmm, i guess implementing RoadVehicle::GetMaxTrackSpeed is not enough 19:39:13 <frosch123> probably needs some cache invalidation in various places 19:56:16 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:57:03 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:06:54 *** aard has joined #openttd 20:12:01 *** aard has quit IRC 20:13:03 *** maciozo has quit IRC 20:13:26 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 20:17:11 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 20:18:01 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:20:21 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 20:31:59 <frosch123> which unit to use for roadtype speed limitsß 20:32:18 <frosch123> same as for road vehicles? or same as for railtypes? 20:34:03 <Rubidium> obviously https://xkcd.com/927/ 20:38:54 *** maciozo has quit IRC 20:39:08 <Rubidium> though to be honest, I'd use the roadtype one so everything roadtypey uses the same units 20:40:04 <frosch123> that read like a tautology :) 20:43:16 <Rubidium> but what's the pre for railtype units? It has a higher range that can't be used and lower granularity 20:43:42 <frosch123> railtypes use the same unit as trains 20:44:12 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 20:44:17 <frosch123> readvehicle seem to use the train unit at least for airdrag, though likely noone very cared about that 20:44:44 <frosch123> i guess i'll use the roadvehicle unit 20:47:38 *** DDR has quit IRC 20:48:48 <frosch123> Wolf01: what is the status of covert road? 20:49:08 <Wolf01> Same as the patch I shown you 20:49:10 <frosch123> the last two items on my todo list depend on it 20:49:32 <Wolf01> It works but needs more checks for pre-conversion 20:49:48 <frosch123> ok, i might pull it then 21:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: roadvehicle unit seems like the obvious choice 21:09:51 *** Dakkus has quit IRC 21:11:11 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:27:11 * andythenorth must FIRS eh 21:27:34 <andythenorth> unless frosch123 is there any NRT I can usefully do? 21:28:10 <frosch123> when can we play a testgame? :) 21:28:27 <andythenorth> we’d need a server :) 21:28:33 <Wolf01> I already do, and always forget that I can't move everything with haul :P 21:28:52 <andythenorth> also, the non-electric tram tracks have catenary 21:29:14 <frosch123> questions for the testgame would be: bugs? split road vehicle list for road and tram? 21:29:15 <Wolf01> Your fault, mine are right :P 21:29:22 <andythenorth> as they don’t provide any action 2/3 stuff 21:29:42 <frosch123> my non-electric trams have no catenary 21:29:47 <frosch123> that is just an a0 flag 21:30:04 <andythenorth> :o 21:30:09 <andythenorth> when was that implemented? :P 21:30:20 <Wolf01> Some time ago yesterday 21:30:22 <andythenorth> I swear when I added NRT to Road Hog it didn’t work 21:30:25 <frosch123> actually the default got changed again, now both road and tram do not have catenary by default 21:30:27 <andythenorth> it was on my todo list 21:30:49 <frosch123> i did not play with roadhog yet 21:30:54 <andythenorth> if we wanted to play a test game currently, it had better feature forests a lot :P 21:31:06 <andythenorth> there are no other HAUL vehicles 21:31:31 <andythenorth> and I need a non-electric tram depot 21:31:40 <frosch123> also already added 21:31:59 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nrt_depot.png <- those are the default depots now 21:32:07 <andythenorth> ha awesome 21:32:15 * andythenorth pulls 21:32:29 <frosch123> only works with original graphics 21:32:32 <andythenorth> I thought this would all have to be fixed in newgrf :) 21:32:39 <andythenorth> my todo list is much shorter 21:32:40 <frosch123> ogfx will draw tram track for elroad 21:33:08 <Wolf01> :O we have tramway icon 21:33:27 <frosch123> openttd.grf is complete :) 21:33:44 <frosch123> i think the tramway icon is by andy from a month ago 21:33:48 <andythenorth> this will be forum-able soon 21:34:02 <andythenorth> day after christmas maybe? o_O 21:34:30 <Wolf01> 1/1/2017? 21:34:31 <frosch123> when road conversion is done 21:34:38 <frosch123> the last items are: split vehicle lists? 21:34:41 <frosch123> and ai/gs api 21:34:47 <frosch123> no idea about the latter :) 21:35:13 <andythenorth> vehicle lists are not urgent imho 21:35:16 <frosch123> i won't be here 12-26 till 01-xx :) 21:35:35 <andythenorth> right :) 21:35:37 <Wolf01> For compatibility (has power on stuff), do you want to check only same roadtype or both? 21:35:39 <frosch123> the urgent stuff should be done by tomorrow evening 21:36:05 <andythenorth> ai/gs can wait too imho 21:36:18 <andythenorth> it’s a few months until April 1, eh? 21:37:21 <andythenorth> so adjoining roadbits for non-compatible types 21:37:27 <andythenorth> that still need arguing out properly? 21:37:39 <frosch123> production varies a lot between months :) 21:38:14 <frosch123> adjoining can be done after convert road is done 21:38:23 <frosch123> rail does the same 21:38:28 <andythenorth> I’m not sure what the right solution is 21:38:36 <andythenorth> they have to adjoin, no? 21:38:37 <frosch123> the rail solution should work 21:38:45 <frosch123> adding roadbits upgrades to the better roadtype 21:38:52 <frosch123> or fails if there is no better ytype 21:39:25 <andythenorth> sounds like you have a plan 21:40:03 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjqfcilc7 <- that's the plan :p 21:40:52 <andythenorth> :) 21:41:45 * andythenorth should do more HAUL vehicles 21:42:08 <andythenorth> it bugs me that I can’t implement cross-compatible vehicles 21:42:16 <andythenorth> wonder if I was doing it wrong 21:43:31 <andythenorth> I tried defining UNIV instead of HAUL, with ROAD powering UNIV, and UNIV powering HAUL, and omitting HAUL 21:43:57 <andythenorth> so HAUL -> powered on UNIV 21:44:05 <andythenorth> UNIV -> powered on UNIV and ROAD 21:44:10 <andythenorth> ROAD -> powered on ROAD 21:44:21 <andythenorth> and no type defined for HAUL 21:44:26 <andythenorth> didn’t seem to work 21:48:45 <frosch123> you kind of can 21:49:14 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/psrnlzd4d https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p8m1zbm2i <- i posted that earlier 21:49:33 <frosch123> only thing that is missing is a flag or similar to hide a roadtype from the build menu 21:52:42 <frosch123> though ideally the vehicle-only types should not occupy one of the 15 subtypes that can be build on map 21:53:35 <frosch123> by guess would be that the vehicle-only types are also not passed to any commands, so they can use higher subtype numbers and are not affected by the 15 limit 22:00:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:02:54 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 22:11:14 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:11:25 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:12:52 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:54:47 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 23:12:30 *** Dakkus has joined #openttd 23:15:07 *** JezK_ has joined #openttd 23:18:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:24:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:26:57 <Wolf01> 'night 23:26:59 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC