Log for #openttd on 4th January 2017:
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04:33:34  <OpenTTD> test
04:33:49  <OpenTTD> test
04:33:54  <OpenTTD> hi
04:34:02  <ST2> type /join #/r/openttd
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08:15:41  <ConductorCat> :3
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11:10:29  <frosch123> supermop: there are separate underlay and overlay sprites. tracks are overlay, other stuff is underlay
11:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause> why, oh youtube, would you think i would be interested in "Top 10 celebrities who dissed Taylor Swift"?
11:57:42  <__ln__> perhaps that's the only video not containing music and therefore available in germany
11:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause> they solved that.
11:58:27  <__ln__> admittedly i had read something like that in the news
11:58:47  <Eddi|zuHause>
11:59:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's like two months ago
12:00:06  <__ln__> so now you can finally watch
12:01:28  <Eddi|zuHause> (do i really want to click on that?)
12:02:21  <__ln__> completely sfw, and way better than the 3rd hobbit
12:03:41  <__ln__> and a great song
12:13:22  <LordAro> "way better than the 3rd hobbit" not exactly a high bar
12:21:09  <V453000> XD
12:22:01  <V453000> germany not having much fun on youtube with music?
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13:44:48  <Wolf01> o/
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13:48:59  <supermop> yo
13:49:32  <supermop> frosch123: that's a layered psd file here, with separate tracks and ground
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14:04:01  <supermop> hmm why is there a purple pixel on the chips mud tile
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14:08:14  <supermop> chips sources have a deprecated sand tile
14:08:26  <supermop> i assume to replace mud in desert
14:09:56  <supermop> also tram tracks set into mud look pretty weird without any trackbed
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14:26:10  <supermop> do i need to provide separate level crossing sprites, base set style?
14:36:52  <frosch123> nope
14:36:57  <frosch123> level crossing belong to the railtype
14:40:21  <supermop> cool
14:40:58  <supermop> so just the regular flat bits, slopes, junctions, 6 depot sprites...
14:41:03  <supermop> tunnels?
14:41:28  <supermop> town sidewalks?
14:44:12  <frosch123> you also need bridges and drive-in stop underlays (unless tram)
14:44:16  <frosch123> depot is optional
14:45:18  <supermop> bridges as in the whole bridge, or the deck that get underlaid onto the bridge?
14:45:47  <frosch123> the overlay that is drawn over the bridge graphics
14:45:58  <frosch123> it is slightly narrower than the regular road
14:46:11  <supermop> ok
14:46:56  <supermop> well clearly i dont want that to be mud
14:47:53  <supermop> can i just reuse the base set bridge overlays
14:48:16  <supermop> as in  can i not provide and fall back on them?
14:48:52  <V453000> omg bridges
14:48:58  <V453000> stomach just flipped
14:49:04  <V453000> brain froze
14:49:07  <V453000> eyes crossed
14:49:08  <frosch123> no, bridge overlays are required
14:51:29  <supermop> ok well ogfx ones are gpl so ill use those for now
14:51:48  <supermop> can't think of any reason why i'd want them to look distinct
14:52:18  <supermop> but dont need sidewalks or tunnels?
14:52:36  <frosch123> all the nrt sprites are drawn on top of the regular sprites
14:52:42  <frosch123> so, just make the bridge overlays transparent
14:52:48  <frosch123> and you will see the regular bridge
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14:54:29  <supermop> nice
15:06:33  <supermop> what exactly is HAUL road supposed to be
15:07:25  <supermop> is it a specially strong road for very heavy trucks, or is the pavement less thick because it is for mining trucks with high flotation tires?
15:09:08  <frosch123> i think it is strong underground, but no fancy surface
15:10:08  <supermop> so in a muddy or cobblestone yard area, the HAUL trucks would still need special pavement, and not drive on the dirt/bricks
15:10:58  <frosch123> HAUL vehicles cannot drive on any other road, regular vehicles cannot drive on HAUL
15:11:08  <frosch123> off-road vehicles which can drive on dirt, can also drive on HAUL
15:11:39  <supermop> but haul vehicles cannot drive off road
15:11:47  <frosch123> exactly
15:12:10  <supermop> so any additional type of haul road, needs to also be reinforced like Haul
15:13:02  <supermop> maybe i'll draw it as a concrete slab then
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15:22:12  <Alberth> o/
15:23:39  <supermop> yo Alberth
15:29:48  <Wolf01> o/
15:32:53  <supermop> the isr truck parking stripes are not consistent
15:33:16  <supermop> >:(
15:33:26  <supermop> means i need to draw my own
15:34:10  <Alberth> improve isr?
15:36:55  <supermop> in \ direction the caution stripes go away from the roadway, and in / direction the stripes go towards the roadway
15:38:54  <Alberth> stripes are a bit indecisive :)
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16:32:21  <supermop> i wonder if chips asphalt stripes should be yellow like isr, or white to look more british
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16:34:08  <Alberth> given its author, my guess is the latter
16:34:38  <frosch123> andy uses ae terms all the time
16:36:31  <frosch123> like "reefer car"
16:37:03  <Alberth> ttd does that too
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17:15:48  <supermop>
17:18:29  <supermop> isr-ish
17:19:02  <supermop> now to make some isr slopes
17:20:07  <Alberth> isr is with all those high platforms in the shape of a silo, etc?
17:20:27  <Alberth> so you can't even see the train? ;p
17:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't thonk i've played in english since the TT demo
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17:24:25  <supermop> Alberth: yeah it has those, but i mostly use a lot of the low gravel freight yard tiles
17:25:04  <supermop> people seem to like to use it and matching newobjects to build harbors and terminals
17:25:24  <supermop> so it might look nice to have a road type that looks like part of the yard
17:26:17  <supermop> now.. how to paint stripes on stones and mud
17:33:48  <Alberth> use ribbon :)
17:34:27  <supermop> i thought about that.. survey stakes with orange or magenta tape between
17:38:53  <Eddi|zuHause> just put tyre tracks in the mud?
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18:12:20  <supermop> turn the tram tracks dark brown in photoshop?
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18:40:17  <frosch123> supermop: Alberth: Wolf01: <- want to check for readability?
18:42:53  <supermop> "There are no vehicles which require obth 3rd rail and catenary"
18:42:57  <supermop> TYPO
18:43:00  <supermop> oops
18:44:44  <supermop> can road or rail types not yet provide a specific foundation?
18:45:16  <frosch123> no, but could add that to the todo list
18:46:05  <supermop> not sure it is needed yet, but maybe someone someday would like it
18:46:12  <Wolf01> I don't undertand clearly the example 2, I mean the concept yes, but the sentence is a bit twisted
18:46:54  <Wolf01> Maybe just use labels instead of the dscription
18:47:01  <Alberth> Roadtype and Tramtype labels: independently of each other next to each other in the same game and NewGRF. -> independently of each other, in the same game or in the same NewGRF.
18:48:45  <Wolf01> Also, I would like to reason more on the roadsides, I would like to have country roads with trees :P
18:49:20  <Alberth> default openttd labels should specify whether they allow level crossings
18:49:22  <supermop> i would maybe lose the language about future noclip vehicles
18:49:23  <Wolf01> Maybe is possible to draw the fence as trees, but it's a bit forced
18:50:17  <supermop> as the example states, pursuing elevated railways as a type of ground level tram fails in ways users would not expect
18:50:29  <Alberth> last 2 sentences of the Roadtype and Tramtype labels need more explanation imho
18:50:41  <supermop> eg no tram under monorail etc
18:51:09  <Rubidium> frosch123: have you done a replace all of some word to Roadtype? I'm seeing quite a few places where there's inconsistent casing, e.g. FEAT_RoadtypeS, Roadtype_FLAG_CATENARY, powered_Roadtype_list
18:51:30  <frosch123> yeah, i did :p
18:53:51  <Rubidium> regarding building by towns, shouldn't (European) towns (re)build old-style roads within inner cities? After all, in most old city centres there's mostly cobblestones and the likes
18:53:54  <Alberth> Compatibility/Poweredness  says you have to specify compatibility, perhaps show the specification of that? now the text bullits seem to be the specification to me
18:55:15  <Alberth> I'd keep vehicletypes out of tram & road types, especially as it's future
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18:59:07  <frosch123> Alberth: no idea how to word it differently
18:59:32  <Alberth> Global NewGRF stuff, NML: "Roadtypetable"  <- lowercase R, I think?
18:59:42  <frosch123> removing the vehicle-only type would mean to remove example 2, and i think combining vehicle and track types makes it more easy to understand
18:59:45  <Alberth> frosch123: the "need more explanation" ?
19:00:49  <frosch123> Alberth: i fixed the capitalisation already, reload :)
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19:03:46  <Alberth> o/ andy
19:04:06  <Wolf01> o/
19:04:57  <Alberth> NewGRF headings like "Road-/Tramtype translation table:"  make it italic, so it doesn't look like normal text
19:05:35  <andythenorth> lo
19:05:42  <Alberth> or make NFO & NML a table
19:07:33  <Alberth> leave example 2 in, it's in the TODO list :)
19:07:40  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- want to check for readability?
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19:08:09  <andythenorth> :)
19:08:12  <Alberth> that's all
19:08:32  <supermop> you andythenorth
19:08:42  <supermop> i am making chips roads
19:08:49  * andythenorth reading
19:08:52  <supermop> s/you/yo
19:08:57  <Alberth> hmm, not entire "TODO", there is also "current status"
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19:14:17  <supermop> not crazy about white paint onchips cobble
19:14:20  <supermop>
19:14:29  <andythenorth> I don’t follow the transitivity, the diagram seems at odds with the text to me :)
19:14:44  <andythenorth> supermop: do white stones :P
19:14:57  <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean i shall add all the arrows?
19:15:00  <andythenorth> or ruts :P
19:15:40  <andythenorth> frosch123: the example is unclear to me because the compatibility lists aren’t shown
19:15:48  <andythenorth> how does OFFR drive on ELRD?
19:16:18  <frosch123> so another table with ! Roadtype !! Powered roadtype list ! ?
19:16:29  <andythenorth> not sure
19:16:35  <andythenorth> maybe yes
19:17:54  <supermop> andythenorth: was thinking cobbles maybe get stone curbs or gutters?
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19:19:21  <supermop> and HAUL on cobble, if needed, gets concrete slab
19:21:39  <frosch123> <- better?
19:21:55  <andythenorth> yes
19:22:29  <andythenorth> something else that I think will come up, judging by forums, is confusion about tram catenary powering road and vice versa
19:23:01  <andythenorth> it’s maybe not obvious that catenary is (1) just graphics, not power (2) that tram and road power are orthogonal
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19:23:26  <andythenorth> otherwise done? o_O :)
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19:26:36  <Alberth> your graph contradicts with the "is not transitive" notion :p
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19:28:20  <andythenorth> nah :)
19:28:24  <andythenorth> the table shows how it works
19:28:32  <andythenorth> *types, never confusing, ever :P
19:28:44  <andythenorth> whoever made that rocket science spec, should not be allowed near rockets
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19:42:06  <supermop> are one way arrows, do not enter graphics, etc provided by road type?
19:42:49  <frosch123> currently no
19:43:03  <frosch123> i don't quite see the value in them currently
19:43:31  <Alberth> one-way pipes :p
20:04:07  <supermop> american road set uses a bulldozer and hole as 'do not enter'
20:04:56  <supermop> but an urban city street might look better with bollards and pedestrian area, or sign for do not enter
20:05:16  <supermop> and dirt road might look nicer with gate or cattle grid
20:06:32  <supermop> at any rate, painting white arrows on a dirt road looks a bit odd
20:14:39  <Alberth> one-way roads don't have much meaning anyway
20:15:16  <Alberth> it's not like you suddenly get the double capacity
20:15:32  <V453000> half in fact :P
20:15:42  <V453000> but yeah one way roads are nice only for better control/system
20:15:51  <V453000> evening gentlemen
20:15:57  <Alberth> depending on how you look at it, but yep :)
20:16:28  <Alberth> evenink
20:16:46  <Alberth> you could make one tile of asphalt, and put the arrow on that :)
20:17:43  * andythenorth thinks one-way-roads are 100% useless
20:17:50  <andythenorth> I’ve tried them a lot
20:18:06  <andythenorth> with RVs, you either have enough station bays, or you don’t
20:18:07  <_dp_> they're useful for trapping vehicles ^^
20:18:10  <supermop> i use them to keep buses wandering over level crossings
20:18:12  <andythenorth> there are no routing tricks afaict
20:18:54  <V453000> haha andythenorth
20:19:00  <V453000> there are
20:19:10  <V453000> but it's generally just fucking with penalties
20:19:13  <andythenorth> “screenshots or it didn’t happen” :P
20:19:23  <V453000> ok
20:19:24  <V453000> game on
20:20:03  <V453000>
20:20:09  <V453000> self regulating road station
20:20:36  <V453000> all RVs wait together and then go load all at the same time
20:21:10  <V453000> occupied bus stops can serve as penalties so they make other vehicles go elsewhere
20:21:11  <V453000> etc
20:21:27  <V453000> with 1way roads you can just control the flow better
20:21:53  <andythenorth> crazy talk :P
20:22:05  <V453000> you asked for it :P
20:22:29  <andythenorth> self-inflicted
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20:39:56  <supermop> mostly i use the do not enter in towns
20:40:44  * andythenorth just builds trucks and sends them places
20:40:47  <andythenorth> very unleet
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20:43:28  <supermop> where it might look nice to have a level crossing, but i dont want anything wandering over it
20:46:56  * andythenorth never thought of that
20:47:24  <andythenorth> I pretty much bridge or plant signs to stop the RV destruction
20:47:28  <andythenorth> hmm
20:47:35  <andythenorth> crossings that are banned to articulated vehicles? o_O
20:47:57  <supermop> sometimes bridge looks tacky in a quaint little town
20:48:25  <supermop> as does a giant red circle on the road
21:02:19  <supermop> i understand it might be a low priority
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21:30:19  <frosch123> <- added a composition image
21:38:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: i added a post to the forum thread, do you want to add a link to the first post?
21:38:39  <Wolf01> Wow, nice
21:58:07  <andythenorth> frosch123: will do now
21:59:18  <andythenorth> frosch123: done
21:59:24  <andythenorth> also, afaict, grfcodec just works
21:59:34  <andythenorth> that’s as expected?
21:59:43  <frosch123> yes, we do not care about nforenum
21:59:50  <frosch123> s/we/i/
22:00:11  <andythenorth> fair
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22:09:54  <supermop> frosch123: nice image
22:10:34  <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks for the docs
22:10:36  * andythenorth must to bed
22:10:43  <Wolf01> Me too
22:10:53  <andythenorth> bye :)
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22:11:36  <frosch123> as well :)
22:11:37  <frosch123> night
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22:13:54  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:24:36  <supermop> now only v is left to tell me my ideas are crazy
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22:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i could tell you your idea is crazy
22:38:50  <Eddi|zuHause> but i am usually of the opposite opinion from V
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22:47:26  <supermop> that works
22:47:55  <supermop> well each of you usually will tell me my idea is crazy for opposite reasons
22:53:08  <Lejving> can we seriously get a checkbox to turn off bridge speed similar to wagon speed
23:00:52  <supermop> bridge newgrf with cheap infinite speed bridges
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23:19:54  <supermop> ok going to go buy a surface
23:20:14  <supermop> later
23:20:54  <Eddi|zuHause> poor you
23:24:06  <Supercheese> Welllll then
23:24:14  <Supercheese> might have to recode Fake Subways for NotRoadTypes
23:26:36  <Supercheese> can use "current_tramtype" to transition between underground & aboveground
23:27:02  <Supercheese> although making the actual transition tiles might be tough
23:27:38  <Supercheese> I'll have to rename it to "NotFake Subways"
23:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you need state machines for transition tiles
23:33:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. it will never(TM) happen
23:36:10  <Supercheese> I'm sure I can hack something up
23:36:22  <Supercheese> it'll still be rather fake
23:36:32  <Supercheese> just some graphics switching
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23:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll still be "fake" because "subway" vehicles still can't pass surface vehicles
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