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Log for #openttd on 8th January 2017:
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01:03:58  <Eddi|zuHause> well, growth is handled differently for towns and cities, and the number of stations might be different as well
01:04:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll be more difficult to factor in geographic limitations like terrain blocked by tracks or mountains
01:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and you're basically doomed if a game script comes into play
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05:41:00  <BlackFox> Hi, I've got a quick question. Can I stockpile resources on some station (that doesn't accept anything) and will they dissapear if I leave them there?
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06:37:33  <Lejving> can't say for sure BlackFox but I think they'll eventually just disappear yes
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08:17:11  <BlackFox> Lejving: they do dissapear, and it's kinda sucky
08:17:18  <BlackFox> I was going to stockpile tons of oil for the future
08:17:25  <Lejving> ah :(
08:17:50  <Lejving> should be a setting for that
08:17:58  <Lejving> I think that about all the things though =)
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08:33:58  <Alberth> o/ andy
08:34:24  <Alberth> and we have too many settings already :)
08:35:18  <adf88> what's the status of "stop accepting cargo button" ?
08:35:50  <adf88> do you know if anyone is working on it
08:35:50  <adf88> ?
08:35:52  * andythenorth needs a ‘close dock’ button :P
08:36:00  <andythenorth> adf88: almost nothing is being worked on :)
08:36:18  <adf88> ok ;)
08:36:46  <andythenorth> that’s not a bad thing
08:36:49  <andythenorth> but eh
08:37:17  <andythenorth> there are a lot of code quality things being committed https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=shortlog
08:37:47  <adf88> iknow, i keep track of all changes
08:38:15  <adf88> I have an atom feed on the trunk repo :)
08:38:25  <andythenorth> you have a stack of patches somewhere too?
08:39:24  <adf88> I post all patches on tt-forum
08:40:54  <adf88> an idea came to my mind some time ago
08:41:18  <adf88> ability to refit any vehicle to "void" cargo
08:42:13  <adf88> e.g. you could refit a PAX loco to void to prevent taking PAX from a given station
08:42:34  <adf88> what do you thing?
08:46:30  <Lejving> why not checkboxes? [ ] Wood [ X ] Passengers [ X ] Goods [  ] Copper ore
08:46:34  <Lejving> in the station window
08:47:12  <andythenorth> ‘no loading’ doesn’t perform same result? o_O
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08:47:59  <adf88> "no loding PAX but load other" would do...
08:48:49  <adf88> but you can't set loading options on certain type of cargo
08:49:17  <adf88> i realized something :)
08:49:26  <adf88> this is not a way to go
08:49:29  <adf88> :)
08:49:38  <adf88> forget it...
08:49:49  <Lejving> sorry already commited
08:49:51  <Lejving> can't reverse!
08:51:10  <adf88> until we can set refit-at-station order to certain wagons this wouldn't be much of use
08:51:40  <adf88> and ability to set refit options to individual wagons would be too complicated
08:52:13  <andythenorth> I’ve seen the gui for it in other games
08:52:19  <andythenorth> but we’d need a rework
08:52:29  <andythenorth> it would require depot gui + refit orders gui combined
08:52:49  <andythenorth> and it won’t transcend shared orders across different consists
08:53:12  <andythenorth> so all consists in a shared order set would need to be identical
08:53:50  <andythenorth> it’s a big change, and probably, on balance better
08:54:03  <andythenorth> but removing the old shared orders system would be way too much social drama
09:08:43  <andythenorth> Alberth: any chance you could check this out and see if it builds? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/unsinkable-sam/repository
09:08:50  <andythenorth> it’s failing on Jenkins https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/unsinkable-sam/93/console
09:16:28  <Lejving> how much involved do you need to be to be adding commits to openttd?
09:16:52  <Lejving> been thinking I wanted to try contribute but not sure if I want to dedicate my life to it :P
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09:20:14  <Alberth> adf88: stations stop accepting by themselves nowadays, after a year or 2
09:20:56  <Alberth> andythenorth: I'll try
09:22:02  <adf88> yes, I know
09:22:17  <adf88> actually the most problematic is the situation
09:22:27  <adf88> when you play on a online game
09:22:38  <adf88> which has vanilla trains
09:22:42  <Alberth> andythenorth: how do you build?
09:23:00  <adf88> and your loco want to take passangers
09:23:12  <adf88> even thought you don't wan't it
09:23:52  <adf88> and there is no simle way to prevent it
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09:25:09  <andythenorth> Alberth: python 3.4, I just run make
09:26:41  <Alberth> oh, I have chameleon not installed
09:26:52  <andythenorth> sorry, there are some deps :P
09:27:49  <Alberth> adf88: yep, I think the only way out is to make orders more precise, by splitting them into smaller pieces, so you can have a number of orders for loading/unloading at the same station
09:28:40  <adf88> that would do too
09:28:40  <adf88> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1108919#p1108919
09:32:33  <adf88> however, it seems a bit overcomplicated
09:32:45  <adf88> i'm not sure if this is the right way to go
09:33:48  <adf88> another, simpler way would be to allow to refit to a "void" cargo
09:34:37  <andythenorth> Lejving: to get anything good into the game takes a bit of dedication :)
09:35:12  <Lejving> heh RIP irl then
09:35:47  <Alberth> andythenorth: Only persistent error is
09:35:47  <Alberth> make: *** No rule to make target 'docs/license.txt', needed by 'doc'.  Stop.
09:36:06  <andythenorth> Alberth: python 3.4?
09:36:58  <Alberth> 3.5
09:37:16  <andythenorth> dunno what Jenkins uses
09:37:47  <andythenorth> Road Hog and Iron Horse have similar code, which doesn’t fail
09:37:56  <andythenorth> I’ll have to see what’s different there :)
09:37:57  <andythenorth> thanks
09:38:17  <Alberth> andythenorth: at least if you specify "python3" everywhere in the build
09:39:20  <Alberth> make the "docs/license.txt" target work?
09:39:45  <andythenorth> I will
09:39:51  <andythenorth> biab ;)
09:39:59  <Alberth> add a "python --version as command in the makefikle
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09:40:23  <Alberth> so it echoes its version to the output
09:44:05  <Alberth> adf88: well, at low level, you don't want to bolt more stuff onto the existing orders, so breaking it up seems the right direction. How to display that to a user will be a major problem then, as you're basically free to do anything you like
09:45:14  <Alberth> but anyway, with vanilla, you're pretty much doomed
09:48:06  <Alberth> I am not sure what the problem in MP is, why vanilla is so popular. Sure some people are clueless about pressing "download missing stuff", but that should be fixable with a single entry page, or existing users helping?
09:48:06  <Alberth> Is it maybe that a different trainset upsets people? Are there servers with eg OpenGfx+ newgrfs? those should not have that problem
09:50:59  <adf88> yep, vanilla veh set is popular
09:52:07  <adf88> do you suggest to change this fact? :D
09:52:11  <Alberth> I play with it a lot too
09:52:32  <Alberth> no, I am just wondering why it is
09:53:52  <Alberth> there is a download button, where you can just download what you are missing, if it's on bananas
09:54:08  <Alberth> but apparently this is not working in some way
09:54:39  <Alberth> I can see new users would play vanilla, the game is big enough to play for years with it
09:54:58  <adf88> this puzzels me too
09:54:58  <Alberth> maybe they never realize download stuff exists at all
09:55:21  <adf88> these alternative sets are really great
09:55:50  <Alberth> well, it assumes you have an active interest in the game, I think
09:56:05  <Alberth> if you're a casual gamer, you don't have that
09:56:24  <Alberth> or you assume "the game handles everything", which is not true
09:57:21  <Alberth> on the other hand, reddit uses FIRS at least, and I heard it's a popular server too
09:58:08  <Alberth> but perhaps a different audience
10:00:23  <adf88> in this moment, 6 out of 10 most peopled servers don't use GRF's at all...
10:01:49  <Alberth> it may depend on what you aim for
10:02:02  <Alberth> I also hardly use newgrfs
10:02:32  <Alberth> but I play for making a network for industrial cargo
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10:05:04  <Alberth> so Nuts and Firs are interesting, Squid for ships, and Chips for platforms
10:05:35  <adf88> almost classic :)
10:05:35  <Alberth> where alternative trains are Iron horse, or OpenGFX+trains
10:05:43  <Alberth> and that's about it
10:06:36  <andythenorth> ach Jenkins uses python 3.2.3
10:06:44  <andythenorth> and my python 3.2 is currently broken
10:07:35  <Alberth> mostly the thing I am missing is a fast backbone train, eg maglev, around 1930-2000, for experiments with map-wide feeders
10:08:17  <andythenorth> when I started playing openttd, I didn’t use grfs for about 4 years
10:08:24  <andythenorth> I thought they were hacks and would break my game
10:08:33  <andythenorth> FWIW
10:09:17  <Alberth> :)
10:09:57  <SpComb> GRFs are hard because you have to choose
10:10:46  <Alberth> good point, no simple way to decide what a random GRF provides
10:11:27  * andythenorth https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnOgEYtWcAApmTg.jpg
10:11:43  <michi_cc> The biggest problem with NewGRFs is that they aren't called mods ;P
10:11:47  <andythenorth> debugging a remote Jenkins is hard :P
10:12:31  <andythenorth> Feature: ‘NewGRF’ is now ‘mod’
10:12:46  <Alberth> game script is "mod"
10:12:50  <Alberth> AI is "mod"
10:12:52  <Alberth> :)
10:14:35  <Alberth> andythenorth: it doesn't output the Python error?
10:14:51  <andythenorth> it does yes
10:15:05  <andythenorth> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/unsinkable-sam/94/console
10:15:11  <andythenorth> I’m trying to pickle a PIL module
10:15:15  <andythenorth> which works elsewhere
10:16:04  <Alberth> why would you want to do that?
10:16:43  <andythenorth> I have no explicit reason
10:16:54  <andythenorth> “I’m trying” = my code apparently does that
10:17:03  <Alberth> ha :P
10:17:25  <andythenorth> I know why the pickle is there
10:17:50  <andythenorth> I don’t know why ImagingCore needs to be pickled with my ship object
10:18:16  <Alberth> self.sprites = sprites
10:23:02  <adf88> "they aren't called mods" - don't laugh, it's a real problem actually
10:23:23  <adf88> my suggestion: "NewGRF" -> "NewGRF add-on"
10:25:51  <andythenorth> ach, removing the ‘raise’ lets Jenkins build
10:26:03  <andythenorth> but the pickle still fails
10:26:10  <andythenorth> nothing changed there :P
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10:31:56  <andythenorth> reading the pickle bugs in python 3.2 is a long way from drawing ships eh? o_O
10:33:46  <SpComb> tsk, it's 2017 and still no new dbset releases!
10:33:55  <V453000> xd
10:36:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Lejving: you need to keep the rating above 50% so cargo does not disappear
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10:37:02  <Alberth> andythenorth: pickle is quite discouraged, json or yaml is much more encouraged
10:37:05  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: <insert joke about 16.16.16 joke here>
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10:43:08  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's still 4 months away ;)
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11:00:06  <SpComb> openttd really needs some community-curated newgrf bundles
11:02:44  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: all that is needed for that is bananas to allow uploading/downloading newgrf presets
11:06:27  <SpComb> like if I want to try FIRS 2, it seems like DBSet is out of the question
11:06:29  <Alberth> and a website so you can read about them
11:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: you could always customize the dbset firs/ecs extension grfs
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11:08:50  <SpComb> not going down that rabbit hole
11:11:40  <andythenorth> Alberth: pickle is used by multiprocessing :)
11:11:54  <andythenorth> I’m only using at as a guard, to find out ahead of time if multiprocessing is going to barf
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11:36:28  <SpComb> the 2cc 2.0-alpha1 default train list is way too long..
11:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause> then don't try CETS with all options enabled :p
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11:45:16  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27726 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2017-01-08 12:45:08 +0100 )
11:45:17  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Improve error message when trying to build rail track over a depot. (adf88)
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12:26:29  <Wolf01> Moin
12:32:13  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
12:33:08  <Alberth> o/
12:36:11  <andythenorth> meanwhile http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/unsinkable-sam/push/LATEST/docs/html/ships.html
12:43:12  <Wolf01> The 1870 large freighter is wip, I hope
12:43:30  <Wolf01> Ok, they are all 1870
12:43:48  <Wolf01> Nice small tanker
12:50:49  <andythenorth> unfinished magic :)
12:50:50  * andythenorth bbl
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12:51:29  <frosch123> Wolf01: the headlines on the intro page even mention it: Intro dates 1870-1870
12:51:48  <Wolf01> TL;DR :P
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12:58:06  <SpComb> but myes, combining multiple NewGRFs, with multiple different variants of the same NewGRF released over more than 10 years, is hard
12:59:31  <SpComb> in terms of compatibility/interactions between different NewGRFs... I guess that mostly affects non-standard industry sets
12:59:48  <SpComb> I'm almost convinced that the right thing to do is just play with MB's GRFs and ignore everything else :P
13:01:13  <SpComb> DBSetXL + Alpine + newstations + Raichase's dbset play guide = best gameplay ever
13:02:56  <SpComb> http://users.qmsk.net/~terom/openttd/dbsetxlguide/ make that Uwe's guide
13:03:21  <frosch123> i think you should play with "alpine" for once
13:03:30  <frosch123> that should be punishment enough for you
13:04:00  <SpComb> there was something flawed with alpine, I can't exactly remember what
13:04:11  <frosch123> :)
13:04:29  <SpComb> but it's a single, coherent gameplay, not exactly easy to achieve if you just start combining random NewGRFs
13:08:11  <SpComb> there's just too many to choose from, and you don't know what fits together
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13:18:03  <Alberth> what more excuse do you need to play OpenTTD?
13:18:21  <Alberth> ie test!
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13:23:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i think some buildings in alpine were buggy, the snowy version just sinks into the ground, and some pavements are missing
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13:29:08  <Alberth> Should there be anything that #define OPENTTD_MSU ?
13:29:38  <Alberth> files only have #ifndef OPENTTD_MSU
13:30:55  <frosch123> huh?
13:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: sounds like something that would come from ./configure
13:32:10  <frosch123> ah, check svn://svn.openttd.org/extra/masterserver_updater
13:32:18  <frosch123> trunk/src/network/core is an external there
13:32:29  <frosch123> "core" is shared between openttd and the master server stuff
13:34:29  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, I thought so too, but a global recursive grep proved otherwise :)
13:34:48  <Alberth> frosch123:  :o   even more code :)
13:58:20  <frosch123> your grep was not global enough :p
13:58:30  <Alberth> :D
14:00:07  <Eddi|zuHause> checking that would have been my next suggestion
14:03:38  <Alberth> a scary lot of newgrf code seems to assume that filenames are unique
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14:16:37  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pzafzgnpd?/pzafzgnpd <- i am not sure whether that improves the comments
14:17:16  <frosch123> there are currently 3 constants which kind of define the maximum number of newgrf
14:17:47  <frosch123> this diff removes one, and turns another one into something else: one limit for real newgrf, one limit for all newgrf including static ones
14:23:42  <Eddi|zuHause> does "static" include the baseset?
14:23:57  <frosch123> in that context, yes
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14:24:57  <Eddi|zuHause> and how much does this destroy patches that increase the grf limit (for single-player purposes)?
14:25:34  <frosch123> they need to modify the @9277 hunk instead
14:25:53  <frosch123> but yes, those 1-line patches need to be rewritten :)
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14:26:59  <Eddi|zuHause> "cannot be used for any long-term usage." sounds odd
14:30:41  <Alberth> if (num_non_static == NETWORK_MAX_GRF_COUNT) {   <--   make that   >=    ?
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14:33:31  <Alberth> also, src/newgrf.cpp now has 2 "is not loaded as the maximum number of GRFs has been reached" for different limits, bit of rewording would be nice
14:34:03  <frosch123> yup, any good idea for a message? :)
14:34:25  <Alberth> max number of file slots  would be one
14:35:27  <Alberth> perhaps not even mention "max number of GRFs" there
14:36:05  <Alberth> other one would be smthing like "max network packet size"   ?
14:36:16  <frosch123> well, i can change the DEBUG, not problem. it's a technical message
14:36:19  <frosch123> i wonder more about
14:36:23  <frosch123> STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_TOO_MANY_NEWGRFS_LOADED                        :Too many NewGRFs are loaded
14:36:38  <Alberth> although if the first one becomes slots, the second doesn't need to be changed
14:37:08  <Alberth> right, keep the network limit as "too many newgrfs" :)
14:37:12  <frosch123> "too many newgrf" vs. "too many static newgrf"?
14:37:27  <frosch123> "too many newgrf" vs. "too many open files"?
14:37:49  <frosch123> though it's only about newgrf
14:40:21  <Alberth> yes, newgrf_gui   mesg could also happen without static newgrf, by the looks of it
14:40:58  <Alberth> "too many open files" could also be a system message, better keep some opentdd-ish in there, imho
14:44:46  <SpComb> UKRS2 running costs are high :(
14:45:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, some people make masochistic difficulty like that
14:47:31  <Alberth> oh, I found your 62  :)
14:47:43  <frosch123> i removed it last night
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15:02:37  <Alberth> Oh, we also have GRFFile things
15:03:11  <Alberth> more unique filename assumptions :p
15:08:53  <V453000> yo humenz
15:08:54  <V453000> wat new
15:09:41  <Alberth> less magic "62" numbers in openttd source code
15:16:11  <V453000> is 62 some special hentai secret?
15:18:32  <ZirconiumX> <V453000> is 62 some special hentai secret?
15:18:39  <ZirconiumX> No context.
15:21:45  <LordAro> i mean, the last context was about 48 hours ago, so..
15:22:52  <NGC3982> Trains.
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15:32:36  <V453000> gg
15:32:52  <adf89> "The anser is 42" :D
15:32:58  <adf89> answer
15:34:41  <adf89> i just released new Polyline tool
15:34:54  <adf89> check out if you like
15:35:03  <adf89> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57080
15:35:12  <frosch123> anything different? or just maintenance?
15:35:34  <adf89> a ;ittle
15:35:38  <adf89> litlle
15:35:42  <adf89> damn
15:35:45  <adf89> little
15:36:02  <adf89> "After placing a rail track at tunnel/bridge/station entrance, snapping will be carried over, up to the other end."
15:36:11  <adf89> "After build a rail station you can snap new rail track to it (CTRL-click the polyline button or press CTRL+A)."
15:36:37  <LordAro> that thread's so old it has a post by me in it
15:37:30  <Wolf01> Good news adf88+1
15:39:02  <Wolf01> I would like to have it as default autorail behaviour, there is too much CTRL in this game
15:39:35  <adf89> I still use original autorail a lot
15:40:42  <adf89> I hae no idea how could the two tool be integrated into one
15:41:02  <adf89> besies http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-06-12
15:42:03  <Wolf01> What do you use autorail for?
15:42:21  <adf89> placing tracks? :p
15:42:24  <adf89> I use it
15:42:46  <adf89> when there is a lot of micro-constructing in a single area
15:42:53  <Wolf01> I mean, why is so different from laying a straight poliline?
15:43:02  <Wolf01> *poly
15:43:09  <adf89> e.g. when constructing station entrance etc.
15:43:25  <adf89> snapping is not always desired
15:43:29  <Wolf01> Them make polyline activate on drag > x
15:44:27  <Wolf01> And a setting to invert snapping mode with ctrl
15:44:56  <adf89> CTRL is for removing tracks
15:45:45  <Wolf01> Don't you ctrl+click on the button? -> To open polyline tool click or CTRL-click on the new button
15:46:24  <Wolf01> Normal click > snap, ctrl+click no-snap, setting to invert
15:47:50  <adf89> it was like that before
15:48:07  <adf89> but I decided that another button is usefull
15:48:37  <Wolf01> Also I know there's ctrl to remove things while building, but is inconsistent, you don't ctrl+click to remove a station, or a signal, or a bridge
15:50:18  <adf89> the two buttons (autorail and polyline) could be integrated into one, maybe, I must rethink on it...
15:50:47  <frosch123> i really like the ctrl->remove thing :)
15:50:53  <Wolf01> I use R
15:51:24  <Wolf01> At least it works with signals and stations too
15:51:56  <Wolf01> And with mices without buttons
15:52:07  <Wolf01> Like my finger
15:54:14  <adf89> ah, I remember why I added another button
15:54:26  <adf89> it was for keyboardless playing
15:56:32  <frosch123> another button is not the worst thing :)
15:56:42  <frosch123> people can assign hotkeys as they like
15:56:44  <SpComb> ah yes, play for a couple hours and then notice you're missing a ship set for FIRS, and you can't transport sand
15:56:48  <Wolf01> 6 buttons just to build the same thing...
15:56:50  <frosch123> and after all we still have the single-direction tools
15:57:05  <frosch123> Wolf01: better than the signal gui :)
15:57:55  <Wolf01> I don't even use that, I just lay pbs everywhere
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15:59:17  <adf89> block signals have a nice property which makes them better the PBSs in some cases
15:59:36  <Wolf01> Straight rail
15:59:47  <adf89> they turn red ONLY when there is atrain after them
16:00:03  <adf89> red block signal = bigger penalty
16:00:20  <adf89> green block signal = lighter penalty
16:00:27  <Wolf01> I don't know what are penalties :P
16:00:34  <V453000> gg
16:00:41  <V453000> hello adf :)
16:00:46  <adf89> hi
16:00:50  <frosch123> doesn't reserver track also imply a penalty?
16:01:22  <frosch123> though the amount of reserved track is different to the amount of red signals
16:01:27  <adf89> reserver, yes
16:01:40  <frosch123> don't copy my typos :p
16:01:44  <adf89> but when a train passes over that PBS, it's no longer reserved
16:01:59  <adf89> block signal is still red
16:02:15  <frosch123> i thought regular track with reservation also has a penatly
16:02:18  <frosch123> not just signals
16:02:27  <V453000> when you have a bigger network, trains have a much easier time to choose their paths with block signals
16:02:37  <V453000> because of the firstred penalty differences
16:02:51  <V453000> idk how the non-firstred influences it but I guess it can't hurt
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16:05:16  <frosch123> cat arrived
16:05:56  <adf89> when path reserving, the most important is the (signal) tile where reservation ends
16:06:16  <andythenorth> nmlc info: DCxx strings: 236/256
16:06:21  <adf89> so called "firstred" mentioned by V453000
16:06:23  <andythenorth> so what happens when FIRS runs out? :P
16:07:15  <andythenorth> that’s 5 more cargos, and FIRS is ‘done’?
16:07:53  <V453000> the difference is especially massive when you actually use pre-signals in splits, cause exit has firstred of like 40 000 by default
16:07:56  <V453000> or something like that
16:08:34  <frosch123> andythenorth: we encountered various string limits recently
16:08:43  <frosch123> it's one of the next ones to tackle
16:08:59  <frosch123> but i have not seen that code refactoring gui since
16:09:06  <frosch123> *guy
16:09:21  <andythenorth> kanban board guy?
16:09:24  <andythenorth> or someone else?
16:09:50  <frosch123> nah, not that one
16:10:02  <frosch123> not the manager :)
16:10:24  <V453000> ._. 70k solar panels stopped being enough
16:10:50  <LordAro> frosch123: string limits?
16:11:12  <LordAro> V453000: get yo some nuclear ;)
16:11:28  <V453000> I could, but don't want to use those yet
16:11:37  <V453000> prototype changes stc
16:11:38  <V453000> etc
16:12:15  <frosch123> LordAro: 256 cargo strings per grf (andy's limit), 1024 other string per grf, 6100 string for all grfs total (user limit, reported by 2 different guys in last two months)
16:12:28  <Alberth> just nuke the entire planet, and you don't need any defense anymore :p
16:15:09  <frosch123> andythenorth: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&date=1481932800#1481986065 <- that guy
16:15:21  <frosch123> the "unit testing" guy, not the "management" guy
16:15:51  <andythenorth> I missed that :)
16:17:56  <LordAro> frosch123: i see
16:18:16  <andythenorth> wow there’s lots :P
16:18:37  <frosch123> what? people also talk when andy is not here?
16:19:18  <andythenorth> well mostly the channel is me, sometimes someone else
16:19:21  <andythenorth> talking to ourselves
16:19:30  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause even has stats to prove it
16:19:55  <andythenorth> is increasing the string limit just work, or are we up against hard limits?
16:20:34  * andythenorth reads the ‘development is stalled’ part
16:20:50  <frosch123> the global limit should be pure work to increase to 32bit
16:21:23  <frosch123> the cargo string part needs some more design since it involves newgrf specs
16:22:04  <andythenorth> ho, these https://wiki.openttd.org/Objectives
16:22:31  <andythenorth> I am now delaying buying a new computer, despite my battery is end-of-life in this one
16:22:33  <frosch123> i guess there are cheap solutions to increase it to 2k or something, and more tricky solutions to increase it to 60k
16:22:41  <andythenorth> because I won’t be able to compile ottd on a new mac
16:23:04  <andythenorth> frosch123 go cheap? o_O
16:23:21  <frosch123> cheap is no fun :)
16:23:25  <andythenorth> ‘no-one will ever need 60k strings’ …. < 5 years later, regret
16:24:39  <andythenorth> do we have a docker build of ottd? :P
16:24:52  * andythenorth doesn’t actually use docker, and is trolling
16:25:04  <frosch123> i think tb had a perliminary docker compile farm
16:25:13  <frosch123> rb may have had a prelininary osx compile farm
16:25:46  <andythenorth> I might have to compile in a VM
16:26:16  <frosch123> does sdl2 support osx?
16:26:33  * andythenorth looks
16:26:48  <frosch123> it says so, but ofc noone really knows :)
16:26:50  <andythenorth> apparently https://wiki.libsdl.org/Installation#Mac_OS_X
16:26:54  <frosch123> but sdl2 port is also over-due
16:26:58  <andythenorth> https://wiki.libsdl.org/FAQMacOSX
16:27:00  <frosch123> i think LordAro was working on it :)
16:28:13  <andythenorth> one of the macports guys offered help making the current OS X port work
16:28:37  * andythenorth is in catch 22: can’t test the build, don’t have a new OS X; can’t upgrade because ottd won’t work :P
16:28:59  <frosch123> the limiting factor is the compile farm afaik
16:29:27  <andythenorth> I believe current binaries work fine on [whatever version OS X now is]
16:29:31  <LordAro> wuh
16:29:33  <frosch123> we can likely make it compile on newer osx by dropping the compile farm and not offering any osx builds again :)
16:29:33  <andythenorth> it’s compiling that doesn’t afaik
16:29:34  <andythenorth> 
16:29:48  <frosch123> andythenorth: i think the binaries also do not really work
16:29:59  <andythenorth> I should upgrade my wife’s mac and find out
16:30:07  <andythenorth> but that would mean interrupting netflix
16:30:09  <andythenorth> so eh
16:30:15  <frosch123> 80% of osx fs reports are about crashes in icu, which look like incompatible shared libs
16:30:42  <andythenorth> do they give the OS X version?
16:30:50  <frosch123> but i can't even check whether we link icu statically or not
16:31:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: usually they do
16:31:03  <andythenorth> I am on 10.10.5 / Yosemite, I think I’m two versions behind release
16:31:27  <andythenorth> ~everything works fine, except that palette animation has to be disabled
16:31:27  <Rubidium> frosch123: we link it statically, but that's doubtful for "own" builds
16:31:51  <frosch123> andythenorth: fs 6524 is 10.12.1
16:31:55  * andythenorth looks
16:34:15  <frosch123> hmm, i wonder where i got the icu idea from
16:34:28  <frosch123> i thought crash.log contained some backtrace
16:35:31  <michi_cc> It does, unless the stack went away.
16:36:02  <frosch123> yeah, but it is missing in both osx reports i just looked at :)
16:36:47  <michi_cc> Maybe both reports involve stack corruption :)
16:36:52  <Rubidium> by the looks of it, it is an official build (rev.cpp was built at the right time)
16:38:27  <frosch123> i wonder how long win10 will support .exe :)
16:39:32  <andythenorth> hmm, ottd does build on OS X 10.9 and 10.10, I have used both
16:39:36  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6295
16:46:59  <michi_cc> I think that the compile farm uses --enable-universal (which TrueBrain might be able to comfirm), which means that FS#6295 should be safe to apply.
16:48:37  <LordAro> michi_cc: http://farm.openttd.org/browse/OTTD-RLS-OSX-71/metadata :)
16:48:53  <LordAro> (yes)
16:50:21  <michi_cc> So the FS path won't affect the compile farm. I might affect users self-compiling on 10.5 or something, but I'm note sure there are any left :)
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16:51:41  <andythenorth> vanishingly low :P
16:51:58  <andythenorth> if you’re on the apple train, you don’t get backwards compatibility past ~5 years
16:52:19  <andythenorth> yeah I can boot the imac in my loft and run 10.2 perfectly fine, but...why?
16:55:45  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: when splitting openttd.grf into two files, one which is loaded always, and one specific to the original gfx baseset. how to name those two files?
16:56:25  <Eddi|zuHause> _basic and _extra?
16:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause> or _base
16:56:53  <frosch123> there are orig_dos.obg and orig_win.obg
16:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause> _base and _orig?
16:57:29  <frosch123> maybe openttd.grf is the "always" one, and the new one could be orig.grf or trge.grf
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16:58:02  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd.grf and orig_extra.grf?
16:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause> not fond of the trg* naming
16:58:22  <frosch123> orig_extra sounds fine
16:58:49  <frosch123> ok, next one: what grfid to use for openttd.grf
16:59:29  <frosch123> orig_extra would keep the FF "OTT"
16:59:39  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action8#GRFID
16:59:55  <frosch123> it does not exactly need the "OT" part
17:00:08  <frosch123> i could just go for FF FF FF FE
17:00:14  <michi_cc> Eh, so what.
17:00:25  <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r27727 trunk/config.lib (2017-01-08 18:00:18 +0100 )
17:00:26  <DorpsGek> -Fix(-or-not) [FS#6295]: [OSX] Out-of-the-box compilation on newer OSX versions (dunn).
17:00:50  <michi_cc> AFK for a few hours, so if it burns or hords of angry users descent on this channel, somebody hit revert :)
17:01:24  <frosch123> be careful
17:01:30  <frosch123> all the bot attacks have been on sundays
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18:45:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27728 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2017-01-08 19:45:37 +0100 )
18:45:45  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> latin: 1 change by Supercheese
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22:22:17  <Lejving> funded industries dies as well if not used right?
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23:59:58  <Wolf01> 'night

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