Log for #openttd on 19th February 2017:
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02:55:29  <supermop> is downloading stuff from the forums very slow for anyone else lately?
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05:39:14  <snadge> damn my highlight went off but my scrollback doesn't go back that far :P
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05:42:04  <snadge> ahh okay, extmidi driver.. you don't really need it, it seems.. it respects the default
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07:55:34  <andythenorth> o/
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08:45:07  <florian_> Hello i have a problem i became not a Validation Code to my Email
08:46:21  <andythenorth> for...?
08:47:16  <florian_> register to openttd Website
08:47:56  <andythenorth> check spam?
08:48:18  <florian_> have it is nothing :(
08:52:05  <andythenorth> I just tried a password reset on my account, I didn’t receive mail yet
08:52:07  <andythenorth> might be slow
08:52:16  <andythenorth> might be email isn’t delivering
08:54:19  <florian_> yes... hmm no admin online?
08:58:32  <andythenorth> bit early to ask them
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09:53:54  <TrueBrain-Bot> turns out the system didn't deliver any email since early January 😄
09:54:00  <TrueBrain-Bot> it "should" work now (tm)
09:55:55  <andythenorth> is there a delivery queue of old ones? o_O
09:57:41  <andythenorth> I just requested a password reset, got that
09:57:55  <andythenorth> did 2 earlier this morning (just to test), they’re not delivered
09:58:35  <TrueBrain-Bot> they will never be delivered
09:58:40  <TrueBrain-Bot> exim was not running, so no queue was created
09:58:41  <andythenorth> ok
09:58:46  <andythenorth> [shrug]
10:00:36  <TrueBrain-Bot> this part of the website is running on such old machine .. its horrible 😛
10:01:00  <andythenorth> is time for rebuild? o_O
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10:03:31  <andythenorth> hi Alberth
10:05:45  <TrueBrain-Bot> well, that time came and passed like 5 years ago 😄
10:09:50  <andythenorth> kill it with fire :)
10:13:23  <TrueBrain-Bot> then people also complain 😛
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10:23:02  <LordAro> TrueBrain-Bot: oops.
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12:19:49  * andythenorth wants fake scandinavian town names 
12:20:07  <andythenorth> real town names I find weird
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12:21:32  <frosch123> it's ok, if the towns are small enough to not know them
12:23:34  <andythenorth> I don’t know any Finnish towns :)
12:24:55  <frosch123> i think ln mentioned some town that is not helsinki somewhen
12:26:37  <andythenorth> I finished the cb37 stuff in FIRS
12:26:41  <andythenorth> definitely better
12:26:54  <Alberth> lol :)
12:27:02  <Alberth> someone wants his pony :D
12:27:26  <andythenorth> obvious eh?
12:27:54  <Alberth> the problem with town names in my experience is that their geographic location is completely messed up
12:28:08  <Alberth> so they confuse more than help
12:28:46  <Alberth> I am working on the pony :)
12:28:55  <frosch123> maybe your geography skills are too high :)
12:29:56  * andythenorth playing the bee
12:30:38  <Alberth> the town names are too familiar :p
12:31:05  * andythenorth so bored of making everything TL6 by default
12:31:09  <andythenorth> what else can I do?
12:31:39  <Alberth> increase freight multiplier
12:31:55  <Alberth> use maglev
12:32:08  <andythenorth> not use Iron Horse brit roster? o_O
12:32:20  <andythenorth> winning idea imho
12:32:42  <Alberth> if that counts as "else", sure
12:34:03  <andythenorth> maybe I try Finnish train set
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13:46:07  <supermop_home> yo
13:49:10  <Alberth> oy!
13:49:20  <Alberth> more home persons!
13:50:48  <supermop_home> hmm no posts on docklands thread
13:52:56  <andythenorth> add a link to
13:54:01  <supermop_home> I guess I should have a development thread to take suggestions and reports
13:54:10  <andythenorth> it might just look ‘done'
13:54:19  <andythenorth> I get barely any comments on Road Hog or CHIPS
13:54:27  <supermop_home> but I don't know whats left to do other than improve level crossings
13:54:50  <andythenorth> ‘the stuning silence of a successful release'
13:54:54  <supermop_home> andythenorth:
13:55:04  <andythenorth> isn’t it
13:55:48  <supermop_home> there do seem to be a few old diesel passenger trams
13:56:04  <supermop_home> and handulf of tiny yard switchers
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13:56:47  <andythenorth> prototype for everything :)
13:56:59  <andythenorth> decide what you want in game, you can find it later on google
13:57:01  <supermop_home> and a few modern LR dmu
13:57:06  <andythenorth> we need an equivalent term to retcon
13:57:35  <supermop_home> I want one 20th C thing that runs on tramway without wires
13:57:44  <andythenorth> loads
13:58:00  <andythenorth> have a look at Isle of Man
13:58:16  <supermop_home> cane
13:58:17  <supermop_home>
13:58:36  <supermop_home> i think my toothbrush has more HP than that
13:59:48  <supermop_home> heqs steam trams look too daunting to convert from nfo for me atm
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14:02:14  <supermop_home> accidentally posted link to cane tram instead of ratt dl
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14:04:32  <andythenorth> QLD sugar trams?
14:04:45  <andythenorth> India: Darjeeling - Himalya?
14:04:49  <supermop_home> going to queens for a beer stay cation in a few hours so might not get much done on this this wknd anyway
14:04:50  <andythenorth> Romania - forest railways?
14:05:31  <supermop_home> watch your head:
14:07:07  <FLHerne> supermop_home: The LNER had these contraptions (1930)
14:07:19  <andythenorth> I have loads saved for HEQS and RH
14:07:32  <V453000> supermop_home: glorious
14:07:41  <andythenorth> supermop: what exactly are you looking for?
14:07:43  <FLHerne> supermop_home: And these, which look easier to draw
14:08:04  <supermop_home> i wonder when cat. started to supplant trolley wire for non-street lines
14:09:05  <supermop_home> i think its actually useful distinction for nrt, seeing as people want speed limits
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14:09:32  <supermop_home> i'vee seen trams in melb do about 50mph on trolley wire
14:09:37  <FLHerne> supermop_home: And then some diesels with tramway skirts (
14:09:46  <supermop_home> but those are standard gauge trams
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14:10:06  <supermop_home> FLHerne yeah look good
14:10:27  <supermop_home> just one diesel from 1930 - forever would be fine
14:11:06  <FLHerne> supermop_home: Oh, you need NG ?
14:11:10  <supermop_home> siemens will sell you a dmu combino
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14:12:11  <supermop_home> FLHerne i don't need anything, but openttd trams are pretty narrow on space
14:13:16  <FLHerne> Eh, 04s should look fine then
14:13:17  <FLHerne>
14:13:58  <supermop_home> dockland yards would just look nicer if rh or heqs had diesel switchers in later years
14:14:53  <supermop_home> other idea: regular tram set but depot refit to have tiny switcher luging tram across unpowered segments
14:15:56  <supermop_home> FLHerne I'm not sure that I am going to draw and code these yet, if I can trick andy into adding them to RH
14:17:27  <andythenorth> I considered diesel trams in post 1940 RH
14:17:28  <andythenorth> but no
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14:19:49  <supermop_home> trolley trucks?
14:20:26  <andythenorth> plausible futurism
14:20:37  <andythenorth> I am avoiding working on RH at the moment :)
14:20:59  <andythenorth> just found this v
14:21:00  <andythenorth>
14:21:03  <andythenorth> -v
14:21:23  <andythenorth> wtf is andesite
14:21:40  <supermop_home> no idea
14:21:50  <supermop_home> only saw that word 2 days ago
14:22:32  <andythenorth> some kind of feldspar?
14:23:21  <supermop_home> I guess it's worth mining for something
14:23:29  <andythenorth> doesn’t do much, just gravel, statues, some tiles
14:23:35  <andythenorth> basic construction uses
14:23:46  <supermop_home> ddmt straight from the mine?
14:23:50  <supermop_home> bdmt
14:24:26  <supermop_home> oh yeah a tile I was speccing for a client had that as an option
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15:03:54  <supermop_home> forgot how expensive these 2cc locomotives are
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15:34:14  <andythenorth> now what?
15:34:17  * andythenorth is bored :)
15:44:41  <Alberth>  do these strings make sense?
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15:49:28  <frosch123> CARGO_SHORT instead of CARGO_TINY?
15:49:33  <frosch123> not sure
15:49:54  <frosch123> but 0000-03FF with CARGO_TINY but without "waiting" is weird
15:50:21  <frosch123> how do you add the ", not accepting"?
15:50:27  <frosch123> or is that only an example?
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15:55:22  <supermop_home> so i am playing a quick game
15:55:49  <supermop_home> but then I noticed there are too many dead end valleys and factories on top of mountains
15:56:13  <supermop_home> so now I'm spending more time correcting the landscape than playing in SE
15:57:15  <Alberth> frosch123: those are the strings in the language file. I think it needs a smart ordering to get the ", not accepting" easily
15:58:51  <Alberth> CARGO_SHORT is much better indeed
15:59:42  <Alberth> ie  foo->stockpiled    and  foo->stockpiled + 1
15:59:53  <frosch123> i am not sure, but i recall there explicitly being no space before the RAW_STRING
16:00:23  <Alberth> there wasn't in the lang file indeed
16:01:26  <Alberth> removed
16:04:36  <Alberth> fixed table of stringID entries would work too
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16:06:48  <frosch123> hmm, working with 3 different vcs gets confusing somewhen
16:07:16  <frosch123> svn s<backspace><backspace><backspace><backspace><backspace>gi<backspace><backspace>hg st
16:10:26  <Alberth> I am mostly confused between hg and git :)
16:10:36  <Alberth> for some reason, git is easier to type
16:10:59  <frosch123> luckily widelands has an update script, so i do not have to deal with bzr directly :p
16:11:28  <Alberth> I don't do much svn any more, so that's one less :)
16:12:08  <Alberth> :o bzr, I played with that early, around 2007/2008
16:12:48  <Alberth> needed one for openttd, svn failed, git looked too complicated, so I picked bzr at random first
16:13:22  <Alberth> later I found hg
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16:22:55  * andythenorth had a brief adventure with bzr, after svn
16:23:54  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: make a unified "vcs" script that detects which .xyz subdirectory is present
16:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and maps the commands appropriately
16:29:27  <frosch123> would it support "git qseries"?
16:33:37  <Alberth> git stash list   :p
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16:45:33  <frosch123> when did we remove dynamic strings from tab 31? :p
16:47:57  <frosch123> july 2008
16:48:31  <frosch123> apparently noai was started before that then, otherwise it would not have dead code refering to them
16:51:38  <Alberth> the noai competition was in spring 2008 iirc
16:52:26  <Alberth> started visiting #openttd end of 2007, and became dev spring 2009
16:52:52  <frosch123> indeed, wiki page was created march 2007
16:53:00  <frosch123> i thought everything was one year later
16:53:41  <Alberth> you lost a whole year! :p
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17:20:32  <andythenorth> so I’m thinking of expanding FIRS docs....
17:20:42  <andythenorth> a bit more gameplay guide / explanation
17:20:51  <andythenorth> good idea?  Or leave it to people to do in OpenTTD wiki?
17:20:53  <andythenorth>
17:23:19  <frosch123> <- you mean like that?
17:24:44  <frosch123> not sure how useful such pages are. people who can read can also figure it out themself
17:29:09  <andythenorth> yes, that
17:29:52  <andythenorth> my 7 year old says FIRS ‘makes his head twizzle'
17:30:06  <supermop_home> mission accomplished?
17:30:38  <andythenorth> I was explaining how port-type industries worked, and wondered if that should be in the guide :)
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17:34:11  <andythenorth> maybe an extra paragraph on pages like this
17:34:14  <andythenorth> for those who do read
17:34:22  <andythenorth> e.g. this has nothing currently
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17:41:44  <andythenorth> eh instead of ‘Industry’ substring in the titles, I could use ‘Port-type Industry’, ‘Primary Industry’ etc
17:42:00  <andythenorth> confusing detail?
17:42:05  <Alberth> not sure what you want to say about an industry
17:42:32  <andythenorth> me neither
17:42:44  <andythenorth> I can’t imagine I’d ever sit and read the docs to learn about each industry
17:42:49  * andythenorth isn’t made that way
17:43:27  <Alberth> economies, I can see the value. You can say what the main chain is, or how to go about building a transport system, which ones first, etc
17:43:37  <andythenorth> not even sure I like the ‘Ratios’ details in the industries page
17:44:02  <Alberth> for industries, the various pictures you dug up would be nic
17:44:06  <Alberth> *nice
17:44:20  <Alberth> gives them a realistic flavour
17:44:52  <Alberth> I assume ratios are copied from the industry window?  would be fine, as reference
17:45:38  <andythenorth> because they’re removed from industry, I moved them into docs as some sugar for players who really have to know that stuff
17:45:45  <andythenorth> industry window *
17:45:49  <Alberth> but otherwise, industries aren't that interesting
17:46:06  <andythenorth> that page is mostly to show pictures
17:46:31  <andythenorth> cargos page is even less interesting, now that we have cargo flow .dot diagrams
17:46:32  <andythenorth>
17:46:35  <Alberth> ah, right, numbers for the "need to know every fricking detail" people :)
17:46:40  <andythenorth> yeah those people
17:47:46  <Alberth> for cargoes, links to definitions or uses, eg wikipedia or so
17:47:51  <Alberth> nice for translators
17:51:41  <andythenorth> maybe people could reverse engineer the ratios? o_O
17:51:57  <andythenorth> by precisely delivering 100t / month of each cargo to see effect
17:57:31  * andythenorth experiments
17:57:39  <andythenorth> nah, ratios don’t need to be in docs
17:59:58  <Alberth> they're in the source already :p
18:02:05  <andythenorth> too true :)
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18:03:47  <BobbyG> hello TYCOONERS
18:04:53  <frosch123> we are no tycoons, we are anti-capitalists, who provide transport services for the greater good
18:05:08  <BobbyG> :)
18:05:30  <BobbyG> any admins around ?
18:05:52  <frosch123> for google mail? unlikely
18:06:36  <BobbyG> so  if we have issues with some  players .. where is the right place  to get help ?
18:06:49  <Alberth> server owner, usually
18:08:14  <BobbyG> well i called for admins  several times  ...  but no response ...  Seems that we have to learn to live with abusive players .. nevermind ... its just a game
18:10:08  <Alberth> or find a better server
18:10:16  <frosch123> what your server has no 24/7 support? you should definitely request a refund
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18:40:52  <andythenorth> "FIRS is a marathon not a sprint”
18:40:54  * andythenorth has much to do 
18:42:12  <supermop_home> temperate basic/temperate/oceanic 2cc trains/swedish houses/ogfx+rvs/Vietnamese names
18:42:58  <supermop_home> D. Allan and Co. doesn't really sound that Vietnamese
18:43:23  <supermop_home> though his aviator sunglasses seem appropriate
18:43:33  <supermop_home> except it's 1935
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18:55:42  <frosch123> <- well, that was way easier than expected
18:56:13  <frosch123> the hardest was to add two dozen of newgrf to a testgame to get the string demand over 6k
18:56:27  <frosch123> i am still puzzled how people manage to do that in a regular game
18:57:33  <andythenorth> me too :)
18:58:14  <andythenorth> do you need me to test it?
18:58:48  <frosch123> it does not increase any limits per newgrf
18:58:51  <frosch123> only the total amount
18:59:12  <andythenorth> ok
18:59:15  <frosch123> for the per-grf limit i have to look into some newgrf spec details
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19:14:48  <Alberth> didn't see anything weird
19:15:50  <Alberth> nah, you need xussr and was, those eat loads of strings :)
19:15:58  <Alberth> perhaps av8/9 too
19:23:45  <andythenorth> bbl
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20:12:56  <_dp_> does it increase amount of strings for gs too?
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20:14:44  <frosch123> yes, 2k->64k
20:14:52  <Wolf01> o/
20:15:04  <_dp_> oh, nice xD
20:15:22  <frosch123> don't say you reached the 2k limit :p
20:17:37  <_dp_> not quite, but I'm using them to save string arguments slots, so there is no such thing as too many strings :p
20:18:06  <_dp_> have about 500 for % from 0 to 100 in 4 colors for example
20:21:57  <_dp_> and were thinking of smth even crazier like doing strings for all color combinations
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20:42:36  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that what string parameters are for?
20:42:55  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: string parameters are limited to like 20
20:43:05  <frosch123> which is not enough for a 32x10 spreadsheet
20:43:11  <frosch123> which would need 320 parameters
20:43:37  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: next patch, turn the text stack into an actual stack (with like a "push" operation and no silly limits)
20:43:54  <frosch123> the limit here is the command packet
20:44:10  <frosch123> which was not designed for file transfer
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20:44:46  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: a real stack would be troublesome for translations, which reorder parameters
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20:56:29  <_dp_> having separate string for each line in town window would solve it too
20:56:47  <_dp_> that's pretty much the only place right now that needs more than 20 parameters
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20:59:37  <_dp_> and it's not like I'm trying to show a spreadsheet there, just one cb requirements takes at 3-4 parameters normally (name, delivered, required, stored)
20:59:51  <_dp_> also 1-2 more if you want colored numbers
21:00:07  <_dp_> with 20 limit it's like 4 types of cargo max
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21:04:04  <frosch123> i think some gs once wanted to display stats for all cargos and all companies in the town gui
21:04:09  <frosch123> so a 32x15 spreadsheet :)
21:04:29  <frosch123> no idea how many stats per cell
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21:07:40  <frosch123> anyway, i guess essentially we need a method to attach a story book page to a town or industry window
21:08:04  <andythenorth> then $someone will want to provide production history for an industry :)
21:08:14  <andythenorth> what a boring use of a story :)
21:08:49  <frosch123> maximum of 64k story page elements though :p
21:09:45  <andythenorth> can story pages have hrefs? :P
21:09:55  * andythenorth considers moving docs into the game
21:10:03  <_dp_> hm, mb not industry but town growing history would be quite useful xD
21:10:08  <andythenorth> the original font is soooo readable for large blocks of text :P
21:10:25  <frosch123> story pages have references for stuff to scroll to
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21:10:51  <Eddi|zuHause> rtf or html? :p
21:11:15  <frosch123> we have no chart element yet for the storybook page
21:11:23  <frosch123> but maybe html5 would work
21:11:52  <_dp_> just allow monospace font there :p
21:12:05  <andythenorth> are there off-the-shelf rendering engines we could use? :P
21:12:38  <frosch123> andythenorth: so far we run pretty bad with icu :p
21:12:53  <frosch123> harfbuzz patch is as needed as sdl2 :)
21:13:17  <andythenorth> embed webkit :P
21:13:18  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a harfbuzz?
21:13:22  <andythenorth> or…opera :o
21:13:48  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the icu layout replacement
21:13:58  <andythenorth> run phantomjs as an additional app, and load html5 elements as pngs from it :P
21:14:12  <frosch123> we could also maybe link factorio
21:14:20  <frosch123> factorio can play video and audio
21:14:34  <frosch123> so, maybe factorios factories should be embedded into industries
21:14:46  <andythenorth> this is true
21:14:54  <andythenorth> then I could stop worrying about production code
21:14:58  <andythenorth> other people could do it
21:15:05  <andythenorth> two-level MMO
21:15:14  <andythenorth> factories on one level, transport on the other
21:15:17  <andythenorth> virtual currency
21:15:24  <andythenorth> gold farming
21:15:26  <andythenorth> DLC
21:15:29  <andythenorth> we’ll all be rich
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21:23:25  <andythenorth> well I liked the idea :P
21:24:41  <andythenorth> orudge: still christmas on the forums? o_O
21:24:48  <andythenorth> my smileys have hats
21:25:22  <Eddi|zuHause> it was really cold until a few days ago
21:34:27  <Wolf01> about factorio... this is insane
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21:43:09  <Taede> **
21:44:06  <Wolf01> I don't know what's the point on a game whihc plays itself :S
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21:45:39  <planetmaker> the meta game ;)
21:46:05  <planetmaker> you play it by playing with the rules of self-playing ;)
21:48:25  <Wolf01> Just play a video on youtube
21:48:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: surely the best moments in AI development are the moments right before it decides to go skynet on everybody
21:48:55  <Wolf01> :D
21:49:01  <planetmaker> hehe, jo
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