Log for #openttd on 1st March 2017:
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00:27:42  <Wolf01> Bah... I just completed the 5th seasonal chapter and I think that if I play diablo 3 again in a week I'll puke... there are 8 seasonal chapters :(
00:30:00  <Wolf01> Samu, how much high are those running costs compared to other vehicles running costs?
00:35:04  <Samu> which ones?
00:36:14  <Wolf01> That pax car running cost is a bit more than 1/4 of its purchase price, how much are running costs of engines?
00:36:28  <Samu> ah
00:36:40  <Samu> let me check
00:37:26  <Wolf01> Just to be sure it is reasonable, you won't buy a new wagon every 4 years
00:38:23  <Samu> 5336 for lev 2 cyclops
00:38:41  <Wolf01> And the price?
00:39:00  <Samu> £115,625
00:40:00  <Wolf01> So it's 4% of the price while pax car is 26%
00:40:28  <Wolf01> Divide it by 10
00:41:48  <Samu> i'm not sure how to divide it
00:41:54  <Samu> it's a Money variable
00:42:11  <Samu> it doesn't accept a simple "/ 10 "
00:42:19  <Samu> must figure it out
00:43:16  <Samu> ah, i can change it on the cost_factor
00:43:34  <Samu> it's a uint
00:52:33  <Samu> weird math, I divided by 10 and i get £49
00:52:55  <Samu> was expecting £61
00:53:32  <Samu> ah, i get it, i did this wrong
00:53:45  <Samu> what i did was 25 / 10 = 2
00:53:51  <Samu> because... integers
00:54:17  <Samu> cost_factor is based on weight and 25 is such a small number grrr
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01:04:39  <Samu> hmm, can only divide by 2, 4, 8, 16, etc....
01:04:54  <Samu> it's bit shift
01:05:06  <Samu> will try 8
01:06:44  <Samu> shift = -3
01:07:45  <Samu> getting £76/yr on maglev
01:07:51  <Samu> passenger carriage
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01:08:22  <Samu> 615/8 = 76, :p
01:08:27  <Samu> @calc 615/8
01:08:27  <DorpsGek> Samu: 76.875
01:09:03  <Samu> total shift is -8 -3
01:09:15  <Samu> -11
01:13:21  <Samu> to be honest, considering that trains are too good, £615 would be better
01:15:45  <Samu> there is no consensus regarding this
01:16:14  <Wolf01> In fact, it's just a problem of yours
01:16:54  <Samu> I have trouble leaving it as is
01:17:31  <Samu> something must be done, but i don't know what
01:18:02  <Wolf01> Something already was done, is called newgrf
01:19:30  <Samu> i tried with exorbitant running costs earlier today, and I was still not happy about it
01:19:39  <Samu> they're just too good
01:20:26  <Samu> guess it's time for me to give up on this
01:20:47  <Samu> I'm not sure what to do, so I better stop trying
01:23:35  <Samu> alright, time to go sleep, cyas, take care
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01:26:48  <Wolf01> Me too
01:26:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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07:07:46  <Supercheese> Yes, we have no bananas
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07:29:32  <Alberth> they died?
07:30:08  <Supercheese> We have no bananas today
07:31:37  <Alberth> site works for me, so I am guessing you're talking about local physical somewhat bent entities :)
07:32:45  <Alberth> no shop nearby to get some new replacements?
07:34:39  <Supercheese>!_We_Have_No_Bananas ;)
07:36:39  <Alberth> ha!  :D
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07:37:37  <Supercheese> But we do, however, have lots of Kerbals
07:37:43  * Supercheese is on a KSP binge
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07:53:19  <ConductCat> :3
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08:07:01  <Samu> hi
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08:08:47  <Samu> wagon weight running costs:
08:09:20  <Samu> it's incomplete, and i'm not too happy about it, so i'm gonna do something else
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09:40:27  <Samu> noob question
09:40:41  <Samu> are there only 3 aircraft subtypes?
09:40:53  <Samu> heli, small and large?
09:41:03  <Samu> or could newgrf add more subtypes?
09:55:58  <Alberth> I think it would need extending openttd at least
09:56:35  <Alberth> however, what would be useful new subtypes?
09:57:24  <Alberth> I think current types mostly cover all that flies, at the detail level of openttd
09:58:23  <Alberth> ie "something that lands vertically", "something that can land anywhere", and "something that needs a long runway"
09:58:38  <Alberth> what else useful subtype is there?
09:59:06  <__ln__> "saturn v rocket"
09:59:27  <crem> ballistic trajectory "aircrafts"
09:59:50  <__ln__> crem: pls, the plural of "aircraft" is "aircraft"
10:00:04  <__ln__> unless you work in the aviation industry
10:00:11  <crem> is it? wow, so it's not only sheep.
10:01:57  <crem> What if I work in sheep industry? :)
10:04:12  <__ln__> that is unknown, gotta ask a sheep farmer
10:05:49  <Alberth> paper and wood have that proprty too
10:07:17  <crem> I think paper and wood are diferent as they don't have plural at all, and with sheep and aircraft they do have plural, but it's written as singular.
10:07:18  <Samu> Alberth: just wanted to make sure there weren't any more
10:07:26  <Samu> I'm working on
10:07:37  <Samu> adding the Aircraft Type line into it
10:09:21  <Samu> I'm considering adding "aircraft type" into the sort by criteria
10:09:27  <Samu> must figure it out how to do it
10:10:27  <Alberth> crem: fair enough
10:11:46  <Alberth> displaying the type would also be useful, imho
10:12:23  <Alberth> not sure if it is displayed anywhere
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10:13:59  <crem> It would be indeed.  Every time I play openttd (1-2 times per year), I happen to buy an airplane incompartible with the airport.
10:25:11  <Samu> av8 will be displaying aircraft type twice
10:25:13  <Samu> lel
10:28:08  <Samu> darn strings, always missing
10:29:45  <Samu> adding an item to the dropdown menu affects a great deal of openttd
10:30:04  <Samu> in many places
10:32:28  <Samu> well, the sorter puts helis first, then small planes next, and large planes last
10:32:49  <Samu> is this fine for u?
10:32:56  <Samu> i was expecting small, then large, then heli
10:35:56  <Samu> take a look:
10:52:22  <Samu> looks like i need to come up with a vehicle type sorter
10:52:47  <Samu> one that englobes all vehicles, ships, trains, etc...
10:54:07  <Samu> company aircraft list should have aircraft type sorter
10:54:47  <Samu> but here, the list of criterias must apply to all vehicle types
10:55:37  <Samu> what can I do?
10:56:05  <Samu> how would you sort the type of trains that currently exist
10:56:12  <Samu> the type of road vehicles
10:56:15  <Samu> the type of ships
10:56:18  <Samu> etc...
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10:56:32  <Samu> give me ideas
10:58:26  <Alberth> you may want a filter instead of a sort
10:58:47  <Alberth> eg only display helis
11:00:34  <Alberth> showing a warning that you bought an incompatible aircraft would be helpful too, apparently
11:01:10  <Samu> no, that's not what i mean
11:01:48  <Samu> for example, when listing my trains, and if there was a sort by type, how would it work?
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11:02:02  <Wolf01> o/
11:02:03  <Samu> because if I add a sort by type
11:02:15  <Samu> i have to do it as well for the other vehicle types
11:03:12  <Samu> currently the sort by aircraft type is only for purchasing aircraft sorter
11:03:22  <Samu> the purchase window
11:03:30  <Samu> but not on the other windowses
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11:10:35  <Samu> ugh, feels incomplete, but i'm gonna post it
11:12:30  <Samu> i have an idea
11:12:46  <Samu> but for trains it would be weird
11:13:25  <Samu> i can mix a steam with a diesel engine
11:13:40  <Samu> what would be the type of this train'
11:13:42  <Samu> ?
11:13:48  <Samu> steam or diesel?
11:15:23  <Samu> for road vehicles, the types are bus and lorry
11:15:49  <Samu> but there may be trams
11:16:51  <Samu> for ship vehicles, the types are passenger ferry and freight ship
11:17:11  <Samu> for aircraft, the types are helicopter, small aeroplane and large aeroplane
11:20:00  <Wolf01> Trains are consists. The engine has a type, not the train
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11:20:24  <Samu> oops
11:21:12  <Samu> what if you sort the trains of a company by type? how would it sort like?
11:21:44  <Samu> there is no "sort by type" at the moment, but imagine that there is
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11:27:32  <Alberth> you can sort by model
11:27:37  <Alberth> o/ Wolf01
11:27:48  <Wolf01> Hi hi
11:28:08  <Alberth> maybe your problems sorting on type are the reason the option doesn't exist?
11:31:19  <Samu> there is no PROP_AIRCRAFT_TYPE damn it
11:31:30  <Samu> what the heck is a callback 36
11:34:08  <Samu> i can't use GetEngineProperty because there is no PROP_AIRCRAFT_TYPE
11:34:13  <Samu> then what can i use
11:35:08  <Samu> do i really have to relly on GetEngineProperty function?
11:37:50  <Samu> looks like not
11:38:16  <Alberth> bbl
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12:04:31  <Samu> aircraft type and sort by aircraft type in the purhase aircraft window -> t
12:04:58  <Samu> what u think?
12:05:14  <Samu> aboud the coding, that is
12:05:40  <__ln__> i assume line 13 is too long
12:06:02  <Wolf01> A switch for a single case...
12:06:40  <Wolf01> Just put an assert(this->type == VEH_AIRCRAFT)
12:08:46  <Samu> oki
12:09:13  <Samu> btw I am re-using the strings that are on liveries
12:09:36  <Samu> 3 of them
12:09:53  <Samu> is that ok? or should i create 3 strings that would say exactly the same thign?
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12:15:12  <Samu> the assert isn't needed, apparently
12:15:32  <Samu> at the time that function is called, it already knows it's working with aircraft
12:16:21  <crem> That is exactly what assert is for.
12:16:52  <Samu> GetRange doesn't use assert, it uses switch for a single case too
12:16:58  <Samu> so i just copied
12:17:11  <crem> To check (and show for one who will read the code) the assumption about parameters.
12:17:39  <Samu> uint16 Engine::GetRange() const { 	switch (this->type) { 		case VEH_AIRCRAFT: 			return GetEngineProperty(this->index, PROP_AIRCRAFT_RANGE, this->u.air.max_range); 		default: NOT_REACHED(); 	} }
12:18:04  <Samu> it's even worse
12:18:06  <Samu> hehe
12:20:37  <Samu> here's the end result
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12:21:02  <Samu>
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12:26:51  <Samu> some newgrfs are now displaying this information twice
12:26:59  <Samu> oh well
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12:36:27  <Samu>
12:38:35  <Samu> oops, lower case problem
12:38:46  <Samu> a tiny bug
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12:53:17  <Wolf01> <Samu> the assert isn't needed, apparently <- as crem said, it is to ensure you call it for aircrafts only
12:54:15  <__ln__> *aircraft only
12:54:32  <Wolf01> <Samu> GetRange doesn't use assert, it uses switch for a single case too .. <Samu> so i just copied <- not everything is perfect, and it might depend on its usage
13:01:58  <Samu> - Aircraft Type displayed twice
13:02:14  <Samu> what can be done about this?
13:02:29  <Samu> blame it on the NewGRF? blame it on me?
13:04:24  <Samu> i see a whole lot of callback stuff code
13:05:15  <Samu> openttd is reading those lines from the NewGRF, but the code is confusing for me to follow
13:05:44  <Samu> resolve callback scope ...
13:05:54  <Samu> scope resolver
13:05:58  <Samu> can't follow this
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13:39:29  <Wolf01> Reboot
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13:46:29  <__ln__> congratulations on your reboot
13:47:06  <crem> how was it?
13:50:52  <SpComb> took about three minutes
13:52:39  <Samu> what can be done about this?
13:53:03  <Wolf01> 30s to reconnect + some tries I did with another software (before deciding if it needed another reboot to remove the driver it installed)
13:53:33  <Samu> Aircraft Type is repeated
13:54:29  <Wolf01> Usually a full reboot takes 1m, while a normal boot is around 35s where 12.45s are cause bios slowness
13:58:26  <Alberth> samu where does it come from?
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14:30:35  <Samu> from newgrf
14:30:41  <Samu> used av8
14:31:33  <Samu> av8 Aviators Aircraft Set version 2.21
14:31:57  <Samu> sorry for taking long to respond, was away
14:39:11  <Alberth> my guess is, if the type gets printed by openttd itself, the newgrf code will change to not display that information any more
14:39:24  <Alberth> so newer versions won't have that problem
14:40:35  <Samu> does that mean i have to edit av8 newgrf code or is the openttd newgrf code that I have to edit?
14:41:27  <supermop> yo
14:42:11  <Samu> hi supermop
14:42:19  <Alberth> neither, mostly
14:42:31  <Alberth> neither
14:42:53  <Alberth> someone is maintaining av8
14:43:12  <Alberth> he/she can make the change after it gets added to openttd
14:44:04  <Wolf01> o/ supermop
14:44:58  <supermop> ok should have time to get roadtypes with trolleybus wire out today
14:45:22  <supermop> at a loss as to how to set the costs though
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14:51:22  <supermop> will need people to playtest for balance
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15:40:38  <Samu> wow, there was a stupid noob bug with v1 of pause running costs patch
15:41:11  <Samu> because of parentheses
15:47:12  <Samu> sorry for whoever downloaded v1, it's bugged
15:47:37  <Samu> v2 is working the way I want, apparently, i'm checking it
15:47:44  <Samu> hopefully it's bug free
15:47:48  <Samu>
16:01:48  <Samu> comparison between 1.6.1 and mine:
16:02:20  <Samu> the entire year 2051
16:05:45  <Samu> @calc 14456378/15881138
16:05:45  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.910286026102
16:06:17  <crem> 0.91 is not a lot.
16:06:29  <supermop> i don't really understand what i need for sidewalks etc
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16:07:58  <Samu> @calc 15881138/14456378
16:07:58  <DorpsGek> Samu: 1.09855580699
16:08:25  <Samu> @calc 15881139/14456378
16:08:25  <DorpsGek> Samu: 1.09855587617
16:08:51  <Samu> about 9.85% better profit
16:08:57  <Samu> it's something
16:10:54  <crem> Profit is something one stops caring about 15 minutes after starting a game.
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16:26:24  <supermop> like how do i say "these are the underlays for ROAD with sidewalks" and "these are the underlays for ROAD without sidewalks"
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17:04:19  <Samu> hmm, i got a question
17:04:29  <Samu> how do I rename a string?
17:04:37  <Samu> inside english.txt
17:04:54  <Samu> let me explain the situation
17:05:19  <Samu> I want to put the aircraft type into it
17:05:39  <Samu> i would re-use the same string, but given how it was named
17:05:51  <Samu> logic would tell me the string itself needs a new name
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17:21:06  <Wolf01> oh, this is nice
17:25:23  <supermop> Wolf01: do roadtypes define sidewalks yet?
17:25:30  <Wolf01> No
17:27:16  <supermop> ah man
17:27:51  <supermop> so if i drew sidewalks on my underlay sprites, they are going to show up everywhere?
17:28:16  <Wolf01> Yes
17:30:53  <supermop> :,(
17:31:56  <Wolf01> <-
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17:40:36  <supermop> maybe i'll just name asphalt road 'asphalt street' and leave the sidewalk on
17:44:57  <supermop> if i don't set an introdate, the road will just appear with the first vehicle that uses it?
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18:12:52  <Samu> moar aircraft information coming
18:13:01  <Samu> preparing v3
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18:39:57  <Samu> new version posted
18:40:41  <Samu> - Aircraft Type displayed in more places!
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27763 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2017-03-01 19:45:37 +0100 )
18:45:48  <supermop> cool
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:50  <DorpsGek> korean: 6 changes by telk5093
18:45:51  <DorpsGek> frisian: 2 changes by Fopper
18:45:52  <DorpsGek> russian: 5 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:48:38  <Wolf01> <supermop> if i don't set an introdate, the road will just appear with the first vehicle that uses it? <- no, it's always available afaik
18:48:58  <Wolf01> Quak frosch123, maybe you can be more precise
18:50:34  <frosch123> <- same as for rails
18:51:12  <Wolf01> Oh, yes, and I was even working on that -_-'''
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18:52:12  <Wolf01> Who knows why I understood a different thing...
18:59:40  <Wolf01> supermop: minecart tram, single minecarts for 1t cargo and high speed
19:00:29  <Wolf01> Maybe even with traps and rolling boulders integrated in the track as overlay... but this is a pony :P
19:00:55  <Samu> are there more places where displaying Aircraft Type would be useful?
19:01:00  <Samu> plz tell
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19:03:15  <Wolf01> o/
19:03:37  <andythenorth> lo
19:03:52  <frosch123> moo
19:05:06  <andythenorth> forums not much
19:06:22  <Wolf01> What bothers you?
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19:21:55  <supermop_> is there a gpl tramway grf with nice looking sleepers on the rails?
19:22:52  <frosch123> tramway with visible sleepers? isn't that troublesome for the cars?
19:23:13  <supermop_> hah ok sleepers under the rails
19:23:21  <supermop_> 'ties' for us americans
19:23:53  <supermop_> frosch123: for when the light rail is not on the road
19:25:31  <frosch123> i would look into narrow gauge stuff
19:25:37  <frosch123> maybe some of that can be used
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19:26:00  <supermop_> yeah, but would require redrawing the curves and Us
19:26:08  <supermop_> so might as well draw my own
19:26:28  <supermop_> which will probably push compiling the grf outside of this afternoon
19:28:42  <andythenorth> supermop_: most of the better tramways don’t show sleepers at all
19:29:00  <supermop_> andythenorth: i need a crappy tramway
19:29:11  <andythenorth> :)
19:30:01  <supermop_> hmm CS tramtracks have red brick when on road, but green grass when off road
19:30:18  <supermop_> how can a tramway specify a different overlay when on road?
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19:52:53  <Wolf01> But it's already evening here :o
19:53:11  <Wolf01> We can't play this afternoon :D
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20:16:56  <frosch123> evening is the second afternoon
20:17:14  <frosch123> how else could you have a second dinner?
20:20:29  <andythenorth> fair point
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20:30:10  <supermop_> i am just adjusting the brown tram ballast to light grey in photoshop
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20:35:42  <supermop_> if tramway is on its own, no road, is the tram overlay drawn?
20:35:58  <frosch123> yes
20:36:07  <frosch123> overlay is always drawn, on all tiles in all cases
20:36:29  <supermop_> ugh
20:37:19  <frosch123> we could probably add some information in var10 about the context or something
20:37:37  <Samu> HALP, give me suggestions
20:37:50  <Samu>
20:39:28  <supermop_> frosch123: CS tram track manages this in trunk:
20:39:29  <supermop_>
20:39:50  <supermop_> tram is providing that red overlay only when on road
20:40:31  <frosch123> it breaks bridges, doesn't it?
20:42:20  <supermop_> sort of, but only because the overlay is kinda wide
20:42:47  <supermop_>
20:42:59  <Wolf01> One more thing to try to not break
20:43:08  <supermop_> if the red stopped at the edge of the rails i think it would not 'break'
20:43:42  <supermop_> because the green one looks fine- even if it is a bit odd to plant grass on a bridge
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20:47:04  <Samu> who's a math expert? anyone here expert enough to formulate equations, or formulas? I need your help, here!
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20:55:50  <frosch123> <- added two items to the todo list
20:55:56  <frosch123> but they need more thought
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21:05:23  <supermop_> frosch123: cool
21:05:56  <supermop_> i guess being able to have a graphic switch based on town zone could be useful too?
21:06:10  <frosch123> that already exists
21:06:19  <supermop_> oh
21:06:24  <supermop_> oops
21:07:56  <Samu> hmm channel is busy i see
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21:49:57  <supermop_> 'rough tramway' or 'rough light railway' as name
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23:04:20  <Samu> who's a math expert? anyone here expert enough to formulate equations, or formulas? I need your help, here!
23:04:48  <Samu> Wolf01: what kind of formula
23:05:13  <Samu> or equation, or algebra, whatever the term is
23:05:44  <Samu> to make a high value return an exponentially higher value
23:05:58  <Samu> more wagons, exponential cost
23:06:07  <Samu> hmm grr
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23:07:37  <Samu>
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23:26:23  <supermop_>
23:26:45  <supermop_> nmlc claims there is an unknown token "," at line 84
23:27:04  <supermop_> is it just me or is there no "," at line 84?
23:27:24  <Wolf01> Is the comment on top fully commented?
23:27:50  <Wolf01> You need to // every line
23:29:46  <supermop_> i forgot 'date' before the intro date
23:30:02  <supermop_> wolf its all one line in my nml file
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23:30:20  <Wolf01> Weird
23:31:12  <supermop_> ill /* */ it but nmlc hasn't complained about that yet
23:36:58  <supermop_> now its complaining abt ground tile templates, but those are the same as from my last grf
23:40:28  <supermop_> AT LINE 442:
23:40:30  <supermop_>
23:41:02  <supermop_> unexpected token: "ground_tile"
23:43:23  <Wolf01> Are you sure it doesn't need some ; or ,?
23:44:23  <supermop_> i didnt have any of those in docklands
23:44:32  <supermop_> hmm
23:46:04  <supermop_> i could not use those templates i guess
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23:48:50  <supermop_> oooh oops. accidentally had half of the sprite stuff commented out for some reason
23:54:30  <Wolf01> Also you can't use /* */ comments to comment other /* */
23:55:00  <Wolf01> Like /* ...... /* text */ ..... */
23:57:07  <Wolf01> Oh, did you read my suggestion about minecarts? :P
23:58:03  <supermop_> hehe
23:58:08  <supermop_> those come next
23:58:16  <supermop_> i pm'd you wip grf
23:58:24  <supermop_> brb

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