Config
Log for #openttd on 15th March 2017:
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00:00:08  <samu> I'm setting a default of 100, seems to be good enough for a 256x256 map
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00:15:05  <samu> so confused, it's neither days, nor distance
00:15:17  <samu> how would I describe this setting
00:15:36  <Wolf01> If not time or space, then must be speed
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00:16:21  <samu> it's both time and space
00:17:15  <samu> it resembles "range", but it's not working like the other one
00:18:04  <samu> if it travels xxx tiles, it breakdowns
00:18:17  <samu> but it's not tiles
00:21:05  <samu> i'm putting distance, but then the user sees a value of 100, and may think they're tiles
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00:22:16  <samu> I'm putting days, but then the user sees that the aircraft breakdowns earlier than the set value
00:22:40  <samu> due to plane_factor being factored in
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00:44:07  <Wolf01> Time to bed
00:44:09  <samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DAY                          :Days before breaking down during a flight: {STRING2}
00:44:09  <Wolf01> 'night
00:44:15  <samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DAY_HELPTEXT                 :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how long it takes for an aircraft to forcedly breakdown during the current flight, if it hasn't already. When set to disabled, the breakdown is not enforced. Also note that Plane Speed Factor is taken into account. A lower factor results in
00:44:15  <samu>  an earlier breakdown enforcement.
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00:44:18  <samu> take care
00:45:06  <samu> good or bad english? is it clear enough?
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08:18:21  <Samu> hi
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08:32:40  <Samu> who's a professional english speaker?
08:32:50  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DAY_HELPTEXT                 :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how long it takes for an aircraft to forcedly have its chances to breakdown increased during the current flight, if it has yet to breakdown. When set to disabled, the breakdown is not enforced. Also note that Plane Speed Factor is taken into account which means that a lower factor results in an earlier breakdown enforcement
08:33:27  <Samu> good or bad english? any improvement?
08:39:18  <Sova> just add a comma after Also and you're good
08:40:09  <Samu> changed this bit "When set to 0, it becomes disabled and the breakdown chances are not enforced."
08:41:08  <Samu> like this? "Also, note that Plane Speed Factor... "
08:42:20  <Sova> yes
08:42:36  <Samu> are not increased* typo
08:43:59  <Samu> oki, thx
08:44:14  <Samu> i'm about to finish this, :)
08:44:17  <Sova> When set to 0, it becomes disabled and breakdown chances are not increased. I'd remove "the" from the sentence but both are correct
08:44:34  <Samu> oki
08:47:55  <Samu> 	if (Chance16I(1, 25, r) || _settings_game.vehicle.plane_" target="_blank">game.vehicle.plane_breakdown_day && 			v->type == VEH_AIRCRAFT && !(v->vehstatus & VS_AIRCRAFT_BROKEN) && 			Aircraft::From(v)->flight_counter > _settings_game.vehicle.plane_" target="_blank">game.vehicle.plane_breakdown_day * GetAircraftMaxSpeedCommonMultiple() / GetAircraftMaxSpeedFactor()) { 		chance += 25; 	}
08:48:00  <Samu> long line :(
08:49:26  <Samu> >= is better, brb
08:51:15  <Samu> now i need to store this in the vehicle save load
08:51:41  <Samu> first time I'm adding a config item of this kind
09:04:52  <peter1138> Samu, for that text: TL;DR.
09:05:14  <peter1138> (it's far too long)
09:12:36  <Samu> 	if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(197)) { 		Aircraft *a; 		FOR_ALL_AIRCRAFT(a) { 			a->flight_counter = 0; 		} 	}
09:13:23  <Samu> 	if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(197)) { 		Aircraft *a; 		FOR_ALL_AIRCRAFT(a) { 			a->flight_counter = 0; 		} 		_settings_game.vehicle.plane_breakdown_day = 0; 	}
09:13:54  <Samu> how can i make that text shorter?
09:14:04  <Samu> it's an expert setting though
09:14:10  <Samu> i placed it in that category
09:16:14  <Samu> broken savegame, invalid chunk size, oh yeh... looks like i need help
09:16:32  <Samu> where in the vehicle_sl.cpp do i edit this? or is it in afterload.cpp?
09:23:05  <Samu> AH, think i fixed
09:23:16  <Samu> it's not SLE_VAR, but SLE_CONDVAR
09:23:20  <Samu> must test
09:26:31  <Samu> http://imgur.com/pXFAS01
09:26:43  <Samu> text too long?
09:27:30  <Samu> but it still fits in there :(
09:35:08  <peter1138> Even the setting name is too long!
09:37:20  <Samu> how do i shorten it? halp
09:41:18  <Samu> what do you suggest
09:41:47  <crem> Flight days before more likely breakdown.
09:41:55  <crem> Flight days before increasing breakdowns.
09:42:46  <crem> Flight days before increased breakdown rate.
09:44:33  <crem> Shouldn't that "days" depend on airplane range though?
09:45:10  <peter1138> Nah, Samu wants to create something conflicting with newgrf specs.
09:45:26  <Samu> nop, range is different
09:45:31  <Samu> works differently
09:47:08  <Samu> range just doesn't let the aircraft takeoff at all
09:47:28  <Samu> this one will takeoff regardless of range
09:48:50  <Samu> they can both work together anyway, i don't think it conflicts with it
09:50:13  <Samu> it can still not takeoff if the range says so and this setting is enabled
09:54:13  <Samu> "breakdown rate" is shorter than "chances to breakdown", ty crem
09:57:18  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DAY_HELPTEXT                 :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how long it takes for an aircraft to forcedly have its breakdown rate increased during the current flight, if it has yet to breakdown. When set to 0, it becomes disabled and breakdown rate won't increase. Also, note that plane speed factor is taken into account - a lower factor results in earlier breakdowns
09:57:50  <Samu> slightly shorter text
09:59:33  <Samu> i come to find that 100 days might be too generous
10:00:01  <Samu> it would only make a difference on maps higher than 512x512
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10:00:31  <Samu> that is, if the aircraft is moving at 947 km/h or such
10:14:29  <Samu> hum... i think i need to throw another variable in
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10:15:05  <Wolf01> o/
10:15:05  <Samu> fast planes benefit more than slow planes with this
10:15:07  <Samu> hi
10:15:22  <Samu> hey Wolf01 apparently you're right
10:15:36  <Samu> i was being shortsighted
10:15:39  <Wolf01> "apparently"
10:17:10  <Samu> need some kind of "normalizer" that accounts for plane speed
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10:23:04  <Samu> it wold make it look more like "range before breakdown"
10:23:14  <Samu> but still not related with the other range
10:23:22  <Samu> the newgrf spec one
10:27:20  <Wolf01> http://brickset.com/article/27049/forthcoming-events I'm starting to think we are overdoing...
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10:57:26  <peter1138> And you're going to them all? :D
10:57:43  <peter1138> 13 Mar
10:57:45  <peter1138> Uh huh
10:58:03  <Wolf01> It's a bit difficult, some dates overlap ;)
11:01:20  <peter1138> https://i.imgur.com/ViGbaji.gifv
11:01:54  <Wolf01> Yeah, it seem to be viral now...
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11:50:08  <Samu> wow, 1 aircraft is 3 vehicles
11:50:17  <Samu> so obscure
11:57:16  <Samu> looks like i'm gonna attempt another patch, this one will keep track of distance travelled, instead of time travelled
12:04:15  <Samu> it will be a bit harder to calculate
12:04:53  <Samu> what's wrong with turkey and netherlands
12:07:58  <__ln__> the netherlandsians are nazis, obviously. that's what's wrong.
12:08:56  <__ln__> welcome to the EU, turkey
12:14:27  <Sacro> https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/5yzbr4/turkeys_erdogan_calls_on_international/deu38ca/?context=3
12:17:14  <Sacro> Basically Erdogan made it illegal to campaign outside Turkey
12:17:20  <Sacro> And then sent people to NL to campaign
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14:07:22  <supermop> yo
14:08:01  <Wolf01> o/
14:10:13  <Wolf01> Oh... 1.7 seem to have broken fullscreen
14:12:04  <peter1138> Works for me™
14:13:55  <crem> Doesn't work fullscreen on round monitor.
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14:17:06  <Wolf01> Btw, works for me too, it might be a strange config
14:45:05  <supermop> i feel like we need more nrt RVs right now than any subtle changes i may make to the actual roads?
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14:54:37  <Samu> what's a tilehash? why does it have 16384 possible locations :(
14:57:01  <Samu> when the aircraft is flying, it's location is tile 0 ? i am confused
15:09:20  <Samu> there's some coordinates outside the map borders
15:09:30  <Samu> they ruin my counting :(
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15:13:55  <Alberth> o/
15:14:15  <crem> \o
15:16:58  <Samu> nevermind, i figured out an alternative
15:17:52  <Wolf01> Samu, the real aircraft is the shadow, like some pokémon
15:18:22  <Samu> for too high speeds, my alternative might be a failure
15:19:38  <Samu> the aircraft can go outside the map, over there, it gets some weird funky coordinates
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16:37:08  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST_HELPTEXT                :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how far it takes for an aircraft to forcedly have its breakdown rate increased during the current flight, if it has yet to breakdown. When set to 0, it becomes disabled and breakdown rate won't increase
16:37:16  <Samu> less complexity
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16:51:47  <supermop> why does my boss tell clients etimates that are always at least k too low
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16:53:49  <Samu> peter1138: help me a bit, is this dealing the overflow
16:53:57  <Samu> v->flight_counter = ClampU(v->flight_counter + 1, 0, UINT16_MAX);
16:54:12  <Samu> flight_counter is a uint16
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17:03:12  <Alberth> Samu: won't work, UINT16_MAX + 1  cannot be computed
17:03:28  <Alberth> or it can, but doesn't fit in uint16
17:08:14  <Alberth> it does something like uint16 tmp = v->flight_counter + 1; v->flight_counter = (tmp > UINT16_MAX) ? UINT16_MAX : tmp;
17:08:47  <Alberth> but you cannot assign tmp a valid value if v->flight_counter is already UINT16_MAX
17:10:41  <Alberth> or, alternatively, tmp > UINT16_MAX is never true, since tmp cannot have a value above its maximum value
17:13:28  <LordAro> i tried to fix my smallstack warning again
17:13:38  <LordAro> naturally, my minimal example displays no warnings or errors
17:15:25  <Alberth> :)
17:15:44  <Alberth> it's below "minimal" thus :p
17:21:46  <LordAro> indeed
17:21:51  * LordAro copy & pastes again
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17:33:31  <Samu> what can i do to avoid the value going over 65535
17:33:46  <Samu> if it is 65536, move down to 65535
17:34:31  <Samu> strange, just tested, it worked :(
17:35:01  <Samu> 65535 + 1 = 65536, clamp reduced it to 65535
17:35:07  <Samu> did i miss something?
17:35:58  <ST2> http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Francis_X._Clampazzo  <<-- he likes to clamp stuff ^^
17:36:30  <Alberth> test beforehand, whether adding will not overflow
17:37:03  <Samu> what exactly is overflow?
17:37:09  <Samu> starting all over?
17:37:14  <Wolf01> Holy shit
17:37:16  <Alberth> value = (value < UNIT16_MAX - 1) ? (value + 1) : UINT16_MAX;
17:37:16  <Samu> 65535 + 1 = 0?
17:37:40  <Alberth> overflow is going over the upper limit
17:40:46  <Samu> v->flight_counter = v->flight_counter < UINT16_MAX - 1 ? v->flight_counter + 1 : UINT16_MAX;
17:40:47  <Wolf01> Also quak and o/
17:40:57  <ZirconiumX> Samu: Say you have a three digit decimal number. If you have 999, add 1, but keep the result in three digits
17:41:01  <ZirconiumX> You end up with 000.
17:41:05  <ZirconiumX> That's overflow.
17:41:13  <ZirconiumX> Hi Wolf01
17:41:51  <Wolf01> If you won't end up with -998
17:41:58  <frosch123> moi
17:43:15  * LordAro ponders just seeing what happens if he replaces SmallStack with std::stack
17:44:11  <ZirconiumX> The universe implodes
17:45:26  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ph2fsvnnz
17:45:36  <Samu> it's done, i guess
17:45:56  <frosch123> iirc smallstack involved some smartpointer stuff
17:46:08  <frosch123> but maybe it was only about rvalue references
17:46:26  <LordAro> that is what the very large comment on it says
17:46:39  <frosch123> what, documentation? :p
17:46:43  <LordAro> ikr
17:47:04  <LordAro> http://docs.openttd.org/classSmallStack.html
17:48:01  <Samu> TileVirtXY is weird
17:48:53  <Samu> when the aircraft is outside the map, the x and y go up  like 2 million
17:49:26  <Samu> i was trying to get the difference between the old and new position, but i can't do it because of that
17:50:03  <LordAro> i fear it's entirely cargodist based
17:50:16  <LordAro> so probably isn't so old it doesn't have a use anymore :p
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17:50:59  <Samu> my workaround was to add +1 to the distance, if old_pos is different than new_pos
17:51:23  <Samu> but then i'm afraid that very fast planes might have incorrectly calculated distance
17:51:56  <Samu> tried yate haugan with speed factor of 1 / 1
17:52:03  <Samu> it's still accurate
17:52:11  <Samu> but i dunno about higher speeds than that plane
17:52:23  <Samu> newgrf planes or such
17:52:40  <ZirconiumX> Something something logic planes
17:55:40  <frosch123> as long you are not talking about ega color bit planes
17:56:04  <LordAro> fonsinchen: oh hey, you're on here. i wonder if you still understand SmallStack..
17:56:39  <Alberth> hola and o/
17:57:20  <frosch123> LordAro: it's a tree
17:57:58  <LordAro> frosch123: i mean, enough to fix the clang warning i've got :)
17:58:05  <LordAro> i mean, i "understand" it
17:58:10  <LordAro> but not enough to fix it :p
17:58:12  <frosch123> every instance references a branch of the tree, which looks like a stack when looknig towards the root
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18:00:19  <LordAro> it's more understanding how the templates are interacting, rather than the code itself
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18:10:38  <frosch123> well, do you have a specific question then?
18:11:48  <LordAro> "can you fix the warning i get"
18:11:49  <LordAro> :p
18:12:19  <LordAro> well, "can you fix the warning with clang3.9 pls"
18:14:25  <frosch123> do you have it pasted somewhere?
18:14:40  <frosch123> i am not smatz, so i do not have a collection of compilers installed
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18:19:17  <Samu> i found a bug. when starting a multiplayer game from a savegame, i'm put into company 1
18:19:29  <Samu> it happened that this company 1 was an AI :(
18:19:42  <Samu> i shouldn't be in it
18:20:59  <Samu> i moved myself from company 1 to spectator
18:21:08  <Samu> now i can't rejoin company 1, it's an AI
18:21:48  <Samu> just start as spectator when loading a save for a multiplayer game
18:22:03  <Samu> can someone fix it  ? :p
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18:32:04  <Wolf01> o/
18:32:20  <andythenorth> lo
18:32:49  <LordAro> frosch123: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p2qoiab63
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18:37:15  <frosch123> isn't that the same as from the other day?
18:38:33  <andythenorth> one day, FIRS will be done :PO
18:39:22  <LordAro> frosch123: yup
18:41:01  <Samu> who's a professional pathfinder expert here?
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18:41:43  <Samu> i fail to understand how aystar thing works
18:42:32  <Samu> who worked on river generation during world generation?
18:43:13  <Supercheese> A* pathfinding?
18:43:33  <Samu> yes, river generator uses aystar
18:44:15  <Supercheese> it's a popular algorithm
18:44:37  <Supercheese> check full commit logs I guess to find the specific implementor in OTTD
18:45:02  <Samu> i wanted to make the river generator more friendly to lock
18:45:28  <Samu> locks - the water structure
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18:49:01  <andythenorth> would anyone bravely look at the FIRS makefile for me / with me? o_O
18:49:18  <andythenorth> I want to remove a step
18:49:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yapf was implemented by KUDr afair
18:49:39  <Samu> FlowRiver and FlowsDown
18:49:50  <Samu> these 2 functions work in tandem
18:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> he was a total template guru
18:50:40  <Samu> flowriver marks tiles
18:51:21  <Samu> but i don't understand what happens when this marked tiles are sent to the aystar
18:56:36  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/Makefile.in
18:56:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: you want to add a penalty for when a curve is adjacent to a slope
18:57:02  <andythenorth> currently python generates firs.pnml, and the makefile runs CPP to produce firs.nml
18:57:16  <andythenorth> the python should write firs.nml directly (I can do that bit)
18:57:27  <andythenorth> but I can’t figure out how to update the makefile
18:57:41  <Alberth> ok, current tip?
18:57:50  <andythenorth> yes
18:58:02  <andythenorth> you might conclude that we just port the Iron Horse stuff over
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18:58:09  <andythenorth> I would not be sad about that :)
18:58:24  <andythenorth> it might uncover any missing cases that need handled
18:59:51  <Alberth> looks too complicated :p
19:00:03  <Alberth> copy bin/*
19:00:50  <Alberth> copy horse Makefile  to Makefile.new, or rename firs makefile* to makefile_old* and then copy horse makefile
19:01:19  <Alberth> or trust vcs, and rm makefiles :p
19:03:37  <Alberth> make clean ;  V_= _V= make     helps a lot in deriving what it currently does
19:04:09  <Alberth> ^ running that, if you demolished stuff already
19:04:46  <Eddi|zuHause> why is there both _V and V_?
19:05:05  <Alberth> one of them is valid, but I don't know which one
19:05:19  * andythenorth will port the IH stuff
19:05:32  <andythenorth> it will lose the html_docs target but eh
19:05:44  <Alberth> can be added later
19:07:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the basic logic of makefile is pretty simple. you give it a "target" (output file), tell it its "dependencies" (input files) and a "recipe" (command to generate the output file from the input file)
19:07:28  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I know :)
19:07:35  <andythenorth> but we’re not so much in ‘basic’ here
19:07:53  <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pr5hp9udo   this is what the above 'make' generated
19:08:10  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: ever looked at the makefiles ?
19:08:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the rule to make firs.nml from firs.pnml will show up in one of two ways: explicit "firs.nml" or as a pattern "%.nml"
19:08:57  <Alberth> I am not talking about that rule :)
19:09:05  <andythenorth> it’s all parameterised
19:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: not in the past ~5 years
19:10:01  <Alberth> not to mention it contains all kinds of generic stuff not used by firs
19:10:17  <Alberth> with overrides in other makefiles etc
19:10:47  <andythenorth> ah
19:10:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: FIRS doesn’t have a single entry point ‘build_firs.py’ script
19:11:01  <andythenorth> unlike iron horse
19:11:15  <andythenorth> I think those entry point scripts are kind of bad
19:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, but what i said basically applied when i customised the makefile for CETS
19:11:42  <Alberth> oh, it has a number of steps, right?
19:12:37  <andythenorth> yes
19:13:09  <andythenorth> render_nml.py, render_docs.py
19:13:27  <andythenorth> just those 2 for FIRS I think
19:13:54  <andythenorth> I could write a python entry script, but eh
19:14:18  <Alberth> nah
19:14:35  <andythenorth> it’s nice to have ‘make docs’ as a target, for one thing
19:14:44  <andythenorth> and for another, it’s a pretty pointless python script
19:15:06  <Alberth> what does "python src/render_nml.py" do ?
19:16:11  <frosch123> peter1138: btw. if you care about the appdata.xml stuff, it goes into media/openttd.appdata.xml.in
19:16:20  <Alberth> and "python src/render_docs.py"  and "utils.py"  ?
19:16:22  <frosch123> peter1138: the installation stuff should in theory already be present
19:21:36  <andythenorth> Alberth: src/render_nml.py creates generated/firs.nml
19:21:48  <andythenorth> and src/render_docs.py creates /docs
19:22:20  <frosch123> chips doesn't have translations, right?
19:22:27  * andythenorth checks
19:22:46  <andythenorth> nope, no lang
19:22:55  <andythenorth> no old nfo translations either afaict
19:23:18  <andythenorth> there is what looks like the start of translations
19:23:28  <andythenorth> sprites/nfo/lang
19:31:43  <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/px77m7hgg  start
19:32:01  <Alberth> indented lines need a tab as you likely know
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19:32:36  <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/new_makefile   http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/custom_tags.template
19:33:29  <Alberth> where do the docs go?
19:34:04  <Supercheese> Who let the docs out? Who? Who?
19:34:19  <andythenorth> docs just go in /docs
19:34:27  <andythenorth> I wondered about moving them to generated
19:34:33  <andythenorth> but wasn’t sure of the benefit
19:34:41  <frosch123> Supercheese: that song is older than mib
19:35:08  <Supercheese> it's y2k song
19:35:11  <Supercheese> more or less
19:35:50  <frosch123> it must be 1996 or older
19:36:50  <Supercheese> nah
19:36:58  <Alberth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Let_the_Dogs_Out   '98  apparently
19:37:13  <frosch123> but wasn't it in men in black 1?
19:37:16  <Alberth> yeah, I don't remember as y2k either
19:37:17  <frosch123> or was it in some other part?
19:37:59  <frosch123> oh indeed, part 2
19:53:14  <Wolf01> andythenorth https://www.flickr.com/photos/itlug/
19:53:50  <andythenorth> big castle
19:55:21  <Wolf01> I bet you can easily find my moc
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20:05:18  <frosch123> no unicorn though
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20:17:42  <andythenorth> Alberth: so custom_tags.txt is built by make, but not firs.grf
20:17:52  <andythenorth> the targets look right to me though, so what do I miss? o_O
20:17:54  <Mazur> NL elections: we remain democratic and in the EU.
20:18:12  <andythenorth> prediction or fact?
20:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause> does that matter?
20:19:50  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
20:19:54  * andythenorth wondering if I missed some news
20:19:56  <Mazur> Prediction based on first exit-oll.
20:20:00  <Mazur> poll
20:20:39  <andythenorth> and we still believe polls? o_O
20:21:15  <Alberth> andythenorth: not sure how firs.grf is different from custom_tags.txt, both are created with commands executed by make
20:21:31  <andythenorth> me neither
20:21:36  <Eddi|zuHause> "of 28 parties 14 will enter the parliament"... good luck forming coalitions :p
20:21:38  <andythenorth> maybe I should put my glasses on :P
20:21:44  <andythenorth> it _looks_ right to me
20:22:03  <andythenorth> render_nml.py doesn’t need the nml flags :)
20:22:08  <andythenorth> but that doesn’t make it work
20:22:26  <Alberth> but my version uses the "fill-template" command :p
20:24:41  <andythenorth> if I move firs.grf above custom_tags.txt, that works
20:24:45  <andythenorth> approximately
20:24:54  <andythenorth> is order significant in makefile?
20:25:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it should not. but you might be missing dependencies?
20:25:21  <frosch123> first target is default target
20:25:24  <planetmaker> Alberth, andythenorth : custom_tags.txt is written by make and used to fill the lang files with the tags for version mostly
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20:25:49  <frosch123> if the order of other stuff matters, you are doing something wrong (tm)
20:26:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you might want a "default: firs.grf" somewhere near the beginning
20:26:57  <frosch123> usually it's called "all"
20:27:17  <Eddi|zuHause> that would have been my next suggestion
20:28:01  <Alberth> all: firs.grf  at the top  (or "default:"  as target)
20:28:56  <Alberth> "make" (without explicit target) builds the first target, otherwise order is not relevant
20:30:22  <Eddi|zuHause> if you're missing dependencies, it might skip building a file
20:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause> (or do them in the wrong order when multithreading)
20:30:46  <andythenorth> looks like it might be working
20:31:04  <Alberth> planetmaker: sorry, but I have been moving a lot of stuff into a few python scripts, see iron horse :)
20:31:51  <Alberth> in particular bin/*
20:33:25  <Alberth> scripts still need a better home
20:33:33  <planetmaker> :) So no makefiles anymore for building?
20:34:02  <Alberth> it still has a makefile, just a lot simpler
20:34:09  <planetmaker> that sounds good
20:34:36  <argoneus> good evening train friends
20:34:43  <Alberth> running dozens of shells for some text substitution is a bit overcomplicated
20:35:13  <andythenorth> make is a good standard interface imho
20:35:36  <planetmaker> it's proven to work... the problem is the details :D
20:35:46  <andythenorth> so this is what I’ve got Alberth http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/Makefile
20:35:55  <andythenorth> need to copy the archive stuff
20:36:03  <andythenorth> and add targets for docs and clean
20:36:46  <andythenorth> tabs are a PITA when your editor subsitutes spaces :D
20:36:59  <planetmaker> looks simple enough that makefile :)
20:37:10  <Alberth> it's all a tad hard-coded, it seems, but that can be solved later
20:37:21  * andythenorth added docs
20:37:35  <Alberth> yeah, low-level details are now in the scripts
20:38:07  * andythenorth pushed clean
20:39:28  <Alberth> planetmaker: iron horse makefile is a bit more finished  http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile
20:39:52  <Alberth> biggest piece of magic is storing the build parameters in a distribution
20:44:09  <andythenorth> don’t know how or why, but the build is now faster
20:44:19  <andythenorth> not by a lot, but 10-15s
20:44:22  <Alberth> :o I never knew I have a graph rewrite command :)
20:44:42  <Alberth> previous makefile created lots of shells that did almost nothing
20:45:22  <Alberth> it's now bundled in one python script
20:45:31  <Alberth> or a few, tbh
20:46:03  * andythenorth wonders how long CPP took to parse 485k lines
20:46:16  <andythenorth> I assumed it was instant, just scanning the file
20:46:18  <andythenorth> maybe not
20:46:29  <Alberth> disk is slow
20:46:36  <Alberth> even ssd disks :p
20:47:16  <Alberth> ML_REVISION = $(shell nmlc --version | head -n1 | cut -dr -f2 | cut -d: -f1)     <-- that's eg 5 processes
20:47:28  <andythenorth> adds up eh
20:47:42  <andythenorth> ok, this makefile is looking good
20:47:47  <Alberth> in unix not so much, windows is much worse
20:47:50  <andythenorth> - needs install target
20:47:58  <andythenorth> - needs the archive / zip stuff
20:48:06  <andythenorth> - has no concept of deps :)
20:48:08  <Alberth> default: firs.tar
20:48:34  <Alberth> of course it has deps, it needs the grf file and generated docs etc
20:48:37  <Eddi|zuHause> not "bundle_tar: firs.tar"?
20:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't make a lot of sense
20:49:07  <andythenorth> Alberth: I need to teach it about the python deps in src :)
20:49:13  <andythenorth> it doesn’t see changes currently
20:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> firs.nml: $PYTHON input_table_file
20:50:01  <Alberth> SOURCES=$(shell $(FIND_FILES) --ext=.py src)     line 18 iron horse
20:50:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and PYTHON = file1.py file2.py ... filen.py
20:50:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that's how i did it in CETS
20:50:58  <Eddi|zuHause> listing the .py files manually
20:51:02  <Alberth> generated/firs.nml: custom_tags.txt  $(SOURCES)
20:51:16  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, script collects them for you :)
20:51:41  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that bad, you usually know when you add .py files :p
20:52:16  <Alberth> it's a valid option, I agree, I use it too
20:52:17  <andythenorth> Alberth: is it worth trying to keep all the makefiles common across projects?
20:52:24  <andythenorth> seems they will be 85% same
20:52:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they probably diverge a bit over time
20:53:10  <Alberth> not as goal, I think, but if parts are the same, why not copy it?
20:53:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and unless you keep all projects in the same repo, it's difficult to keep them in sync
20:53:52  <Alberth> trying to keep them all the same creates lots of edge cases between projects
20:54:51  <Alberth> much easier to accept build rules are sometimes a little different :p
21:00:19  <andythenorth> ok I just have to learn more make
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21:00:31  <andythenorth> my concern is cargo culting because I don’t have knowledge
21:00:43  <andythenorth> ‘paste the codez’ :P
21:02:40  <andythenorth> so is Mashinky good? o_O
21:03:00  <Wolf01> Who ever tried it?
21:03:18  <andythenorth> I thought there were releases, seems not
21:03:44  <Wolf01> I'm still waiting to purchase it at day 1 as soon as it will be put in early access
21:03:57  <andythenorth> looks fricking awesome
21:04:00  <andythenorth> but PC only :P
21:04:37  <andythenorth> the iso-metric <-> 360’ switch looks like it’s done well
21:04:40  <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyGgkrPGhd0&feature=youtu.be
21:04:41  <Alberth> https://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/
21:13:43  <Alberth> isometric is also just 3d, but from a single point of view
21:14:25  <Alberth> ie just draw rectangles, opengl does the rest :)
21:16:57  <andythenorth> it looks good
21:17:03  <andythenorth> many things don’t :)
21:18:49  <Wolf01> It's very well designed, starting from the "build in isometric and play in full 3D"
21:19:11  <andythenorth> only trains though
21:19:18  <Wolf01> Building in 3D is lame... look at transport fever
21:19:25  <andythenorth> never appealed to me
21:19:39  <andythenorth> I like the ramps on the bridges, looks like Brio ;)
21:19:47  <Wolf01> Yeah
21:19:50  <andythenorth> first thing I’ve seen that appeals more than TTD
21:20:01  <andythenorth> that’s what, 23 years :P
21:20:30  <Wolf01> We should do OpenMashinky too XD
21:20:45  <andythenorth> we should make friends with him :P
21:20:51  <andythenorth> maybe he could employ Pikka
21:23:18  <Wolf01> Maybe I could emigrate in Czechia and get a job
21:23:36  <Wolf01> Italy is dead... definitely
21:24:53  <Wolf01> I hope that with the next elections we also do "QuItaly" so we can give the coup de grace
21:25:26  * andythenorth is out of brain for makefiles tonight :P
21:25:41  <andythenorth> quitting whilst it still works
21:27:50  <Alberth> :)
21:27:52  <Alberth> nn
21:27:55  <Wolf01> Nn
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21:38:53  <andythenorth> also
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21:43:26  <Samu> is this good english?
21:43:27  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST                         :Flight distance travelled before increases breakdown rate: {STRING2}
21:43:40  <Samu> will be uploading this shortly
21:43:49  <Samu> increased*
21:44:32  <Samu> Flight distance travveled before increased breakdown rate: 100 tiles
21:44:37  <Samu> omg, travelled*
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21:53:42  <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> isometric is also just 3d, but from a single point of view <-- it must be a point infinitely far away to get a parallel projection?
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22:06:01  <V453000> is slug?
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22:11:51  <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/g9Ssp
22:12:56  <Samu> good or bad englisho?
22:16:55  <__ln__> needs work
22:17:20  <Samu> help me fix it
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22:20:22  <__ln__> can we start by calling the setting itself e.g. "Increased breakdown rate for aircraft after:"
22:20:48  <__ln__> or "Increased aircraft breakdown rate after:"
22:20:50  <Samu> 0 days is shown as Disabled
22:21:02  <Samu> after: Disabled  :/
22:21:30  <Supercheese> that is fine
22:21:42  <Supercheese> some vanilla settings work that way IIRC
22:21:54  <Supercheese> the meaning is still clear
22:22:24  <Samu> ok, i can do that
22:22:48  <Supercheese> of course, you can still change it in other ways if you like
22:22:57  <Supercheese> myriad ways to say the same thing
22:23:09  <Samu> oh, not 0 days, i mean 0 tiles, was confusing with my last work
22:24:25  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST                         :Increased aircraft breakdown rate after:": {STRING2}
22:24:43  <Samu> oops,
22:24:51  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST                         :Increased aircraft breakdown rate after: {STRING2}
22:25:14  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST_VALUE                   :{COMMA}{NBSP}tile{P "" s}
22:25:40  <__ln__> the last line of the descrption, "When set to 0, ..." seems too obvious to be worth mentioning
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22:27:37  <Samu> well, 0 could lead to someone thinking it would always breakdown :(
22:28:31  <Samu> but ok, i can remove it
22:28:34  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:29:39  <Samu>  this sets how many *tiles travelled* it takes for
22:29:46  <Samu> tiles travelled or travelled tiles?
22:31:38  <__ln__> but as i understand, you cannot set it to 0, you can only set it to 'Disabled'
22:32:26  <__ln__> the first sentence of the description is too long and complicated
22:32:52  <__ln__> but unfortunately i'm on a timezone where it's time to go sleep
22:36:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "Turkey expunges dutch cows"... why is that a headline in a serious newspaper?
22:36:19  <Supercheese> They're having a cow -- I mean, a row
22:36:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get that pun
22:36:48  <Supercheese> They're supposed to rhyme
22:36:55  <Supercheese> unless I've done something wrong
22:37:17  * Supercheese hopes the British spelling isn't different
22:37:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't make it have any sense
22:38:22  <Supercheese> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/row#Verb_2
22:39:03  <Supercheese> "to have a row" meaning "to quarrel"
22:40:25  <Supercheese> It is also entirely possible that I am merely unfunny
22:41:31  <Eddi|zuHause> no. it's entirely possible that you use words that individually have meaning and make no sense in combination
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22:51:15  <Mazur> I considered it funny, Cheese.
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23:14:49  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST_HELPTEXT                :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how many tiles it takes for an aircraft to travel before its forced to breakdown, if it hasn't already
23:15:08  <Samu> Mour englich help
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23:15:43  <Samu> is this clearer now? I ommited moar details though
23:18:08  <Samu> it isn't exactly breaking down past x tiles though, in reality its chances are rapidly growing and growing every day
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23:45:02  <ST2> damn dodger007, you really connected ^^
23:45:42  <dodger007> yeah but i dont see his name
23:46:10  <ST2> yeah, you missed 1 channel on other server
23:46:26  <dodger007> ?
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