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Log for #openttd on 31st March 2017:
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00:19:21  <Samu> glx, i got (uint)max_distance = INT_MAX
00:19:26  <Samu> which is still okay
00:19:51  <Samu> if (distdepot <= (uint)max_distance && distdepot < best_dist) {
00:20:16  <Samu> max_distance is a int and is equalt to INT_MAX
00:20:53  <glx> casting to uint never change the value, only its interpretation
00:21:12  <Samu> sometimes max_distance is equal to 20
00:21:23  <Samu> (uint)20 = 20
00:21:32  <Samu> so i got nothing to worry about then
00:21:33  <glx> negative int just become big uint
00:22:04  <glx> (uint)-1=MAX_UINT ;)
00:22:47  <Samu> ah nah. i'm never dealing with negative distances, the values max_distance can be are 0, 20 and INT_MAX
00:23:15  <glx> so it's safe for your math
00:23:24  <Samu> cool, thx
00:24:18  <Samu> alrigh, going to bed, tomorrow i'll post this, i just figured out better how to feed OPF
00:24:33  <Samu> patch is nearly ready for opf :)
00:24:50  <Samu> cyas
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06:14:33  <Samu> @logs
06:14:33  <DorpsGek> Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
06:39:40  <Samu> anyone around?
06:40:19  <Supercheese> Maaaaaaybe
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06:54:34  <Samu> nice, good morning
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07:09:51  <Samu> can someone review if these comments are good? does it need more clarification? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxwa9eode
07:09:58  <Samu> thx in advance
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08:14:01  <peter1138> hi
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08:15:10  <Wolf01> Moin
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08:15:42  <Samu> peter1138: can you look at my code for a moment?
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08:39:41  <Samu> dead chat
08:39:59  <peter1138> sorry i have a real job too :p
08:42:02  <Samu> t.t
08:43:08  <peter1138> i don't even know what that is meant to be
08:43:36  <Samu> what?
08:43:47  <Samu> it's locating a depot using opf
08:44:19  <peter1138> no, i mean 't.t'
08:44:28  <Samu> it gets the tile where a depot might be so it can ask the pathfinder
08:44:29  <Samu> oh
08:44:57  <Samu> having a job sucks
08:45:04  <Samu> unless you really like it
08:45:04  <Wolf01> It's the t member of a class in a variable t
08:45:24  <Wolf01> Yeah, having a job sucks :'(
08:45:28  <peter1138> :)
08:45:35  <peter1138> not having a job sucks more
08:46:14  <Samu> t.t is the same as :(
08:46:36  <Wolf01> I don't see the resemblance
08:47:34  <Samu> i have a question about this 		case VPF_OPF:  max_distance = 12; break;
08:47:40  <Samu> why is it 12?
08:47:49  <peter1138> it's a good number
08:47:54  <Samu> the others at default are 20
08:48:10  <Samu> was there a special reason opf gets a lower max_distance than npf and yapf
08:51:40  <Samu> hmm i'll be back later to read the answer, if any, got to go out do something
08:51:48  <Samu> cya later
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09:42:44  <Wolf01> Aww, not even an hour, give us time to think
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09:42:57  <Samu_> t.t
09:43:01  <Samu_> :(
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10:15:55  <Samu> i found something
10:16:00  <Samu> -Feature-ish: make maximum pathfinder penalties for finding depots customisable, also increase it slightly to 20 tiles worth of penalties.
10:16:12  <Samu> r18481 by Rubidium
10:16:38  <Samu> it was 12
10:16:41  <Samu> for all
10:17:07  <Samu> then it became 12/20/20
10:17:30  <Wolf01> I think nobody want to touch the OPF because "it just works"
10:18:02  <Samu> i was thinking 20/20/20, 20 for all
10:18:11  <Wolf01> And break OPF?
10:18:29  <Samu> it is gonna ask opf
10:18:32  <Wolf01> What if 20 formats your hard drive?
10:19:11  <Samu> only opf isn't customizable
10:19:42  <Wolf01> Maybe because even a slight change might make it unreliable?
10:20:17  <Samu> i don't think it's worth a customization though, but i guess it could be increased to 20, now that i made it use opf to search for it
10:20:58  <Samu> if, within 20, the opf finds a depot, the ship really goes to it
10:21:10  <Samu> but if it doesn't...
10:21:44  <Samu> it comes back with a UINT_MAX
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10:22:04  <Samu> UINT_MAX is higher than 20, so it fails
10:22:15  <Samu> it's also higher than 12 anyway
10:22:55  <Samu> then it resorts to finding a depot with distancemanhattan
10:23:09  <Samu> to a max of 20 tiles away
10:25:43  <Samu> if I leave it at 12, opf would only be searching within 12 tiles distance, but it could reliably find something further away...
10:26:10  <Samu> i dunno, i'm inclined to setting it to 20
10:28:13  <Samu> from opf code, it can find up to a length of 50 tiles
10:28:27  <Samu> reliably
10:28:38  <Samu> (but unlikely)
10:29:39  <Samu> okay, i'm setting it to 20
10:30:09  <Samu> if opf doesn't find, it's still UINT_MAX, returning no depot
10:30:34  <Samu> gonna post patch
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10:52:50  <UncleCJ> Hey everyone. My first game-related question here - I am confused by the "virtual" block signal at train stations. I've been successfully using one-way path signals and trains enter free tracks in the station, but now at one (spread) station they suddenly don't, effectively making it a single-track station. Any ideas?
10:54:35  <peter1138> there's no virtual block signal at a station
10:55:18  <peter1138> there are penalties for crossing junction tiles which can affect which platform is chosen
10:55:22  <peter1138> show us a picture
10:55:49  <Samu> here's the explanation for OPF, how I implemented it https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1184731#p1184731
10:57:13  <UncleCJ> peter1138: I'll have to get a picture later
10:58:08  <UncleCJ> peter1138: Exactly, that was one thought too, that it prefers a path that is busy and doesn't see the one that would be free
10:58:56  <UncleCJ> ... and I've considered if my 10 car+engine trains block the station, but that would be silly
10:59:07  <Samu> edited topic, added a bit more clarity
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11:04:31  <UncleCJ> peter1138: No invisible block signal at stations? Then I don't know why the video tutorial I watched mentioned it and how... oh, well I guess that could explain things...
11:06:40  <UncleCJ> On my working RORO I had path signals at the exit of each platform, breaking up the paths in entry junction + platform and exit junction.
11:17:10  <Samu> darn automatic services vs forced services, I'm always messing up these two during explanation
11:18:02  <Samu> whatever, the code works, explaining how it works, however... :|
11:22:38  <peter1138> ROROs need signals, yes
11:22:46  <peter1138> you can get away without signals on terminus stations
11:23:02  <peter1138> i tend to put them in though
11:27:36  <Wolf01> peter1138, maybe he mean the fact that a train wait at station end platform when using pbs
11:28:37  <Wolf01> UncleCJ, stations are safe waiting points with an implicit PBS signal, like depots
11:29:23  <peter1138> not a block signal certainly
11:30:25  <Wolf01> No, it's PBS, but it's active only with other PBS in the block, if you only use block signals it won't work
11:31:33  <UncleCJ> Wolf01: Well that's what I assumed, but seemed it didn't work like that - unless I broke entry+platforms+exit up somewhere a train wouldn't see that a platform was free but only that the whole complex was busy?
11:31:56  <Wolf01> Screen or didn't happen
11:32:19  <Wolf01> I don't even signal stations and junctions and everything works :P
11:32:20  <UncleCJ> Wolf01: :-)
11:33:35  <Samu> currently testing yapf original vs yapf with reachable, let's see if the company profits increase
11:33:43  <Samu> there's 89 ships in the company
11:37:57  <Samu> there is an increase
11:38:01  <Samu> yay, i'm pleased
11:38:42  <Samu> +£5,641,262 to +£5,717,100
11:39:38  <Samu> there was a decrease on the 2nd year, hmm
11:40:17  <Samu> +£5,838,146 vs +£5,820,247
11:40:22  <Samu> slight decrease
11:44:10  <Wolf01> See, don't mess up with the pathfinder
11:45:18  <Samu> 3 years straight with slighth decreases, hmm i wonder why
11:45:35  <Samu> the difference isn't much, about £15k-£20k
11:45:48  <Samu> but still... i'm wondering what went wrong
11:46:22  <Wolf01> Now you need to fix running costs
11:46:26  <Wolf01> Blizzard style
11:47:51  <UncleCJ> Wolf01: Screen: https://twitter.com/unclecj/status/847776506973745152
11:47:53  <Samu> the biggest difference on the 4th year, by about £300k, i must investigate better
11:48:50  <Samu> must see if i catch some ships behaving erraticaly if any
11:49:06  <Wolf01> Can you enable the PBS highlight?
11:49:08  <Samu> i see them all profiting
11:49:22  <Samu> so, i wonder why is reachable depot worse
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11:51:13  <Wolf01> Also you might be missing one piece of track on the 3 platform stations, the middle platform couldn't exit to north
11:52:09  <UncleCJ> Wolf01: I'll check that out later then
11:53:38  <UncleCJ> Wolf01: True, middle platform can't exit north. The main issue though (and I think I'll rebuild it from a roro terminus to proper roro) is that trains from the north won't enter the free platforms
11:53:38  <Samu> the situation reversed, a year later
11:54:01  <Samu> +£200k difference favoring reachable depot
11:54:07  <Samu> so this is quite varied it seems
11:55:23  <Wolf01> Samu, I really think that the profits are totally unrelated to your change, maybe you will get all ships to have profit as they don't get lost
11:56:07  <Samu> i suppose so, the world doesn't evolve the same
11:56:15  <Wolf01> You should look for a decrease of lost ships not for 0k difference on profit
11:56:45  <Samu> this savegame had 89 ships, none were lost
11:56:53  <Wolf01> And before the change?
11:57:18  <Samu> that's what i mean, before the change, none were lost
11:57:28  <Samu> after the change, none is lost as well
11:57:28  <Wolf01> Then what are you testing for?
11:57:58  <Samu> testing how much a pf finding depots would influence the profits
11:58:26  <Samu> in this case, yapf
11:59:06  <Wolf01> Testing how much changing the color of tiles in a supermarket affects profits
11:59:36  <Wolf01> https://media.giphy.com/media/rkXNems5uxExG/giphy.gif
12:00:27  <peter1138> UncleCJ, yeah, you, uh, need some signals!
12:00:28  <Samu> for this specific savegame, all depots were reachable, they might not have been the closest in terms of pf, perhaps i need another sample
12:02:09  <Samu> another thing i notice, it's fast forwarding faster on my build
12:02:28  <Wolf01> That's welcome
12:02:28  <Samu> already 5 months ahead
12:03:09  <Samu> i'm using 1.7.0-RC1 from openttd.org and the one i compiled here with vs2015, not sure if that can influence
12:03:29  <UncleCJ> peter1138: Well according to Wolf01 platforms have some PBS magic, but I'm listening to the tutorial again to understand
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12:04:35  <Samu> alright, enough Yapf
12:04:44  <Samu> now gonna compare NPF
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12:09:09  <crem> Hi sim-al2.
12:09:23  <crem> Here is some entropy for you, as a gift: itU7Eu5aqigTF6yftC0b
12:12:29  <Samu> about the same variances
12:12:57  <Samu> fast forwarding seems to be slightly slower, about 5 days delayed
12:14:44  <Samu> nothing is lost, everything is profiting
12:17:15  <Samu> alright, testing OPF now
12:17:35  <Samu> this one has a great degree of random
12:18:27  <Samu> uses Random() when chosing a direction if the distance with either choice is the same
12:20:13  <Samu> it appears to be fastforwading faster
12:20:30  <Samu> will wait a bit more for confirmation
12:23:34  <Samu> there's a greater variance favoring rechable depots, by about +£200k for 2 years straight
12:24:40  <Samu> but with this much randomness i can't be too sure
12:26:10  <Samu> on the 3rd year, less profit on my patch than on 1.7.0-rc1
12:26:19  <Samu> but only by -£30k
12:27:43  <Samu> in 3 years, fastforward is ahead by ~10 days
12:28:43  <Samu> that is a surprise, as I am asking the pf to pf so many depots per ship
12:29:03  <Samu> i've even increased the range from 12 to 20
12:29:09  <Samu> hmm interesting result
12:30:51  <Samu> 18 lost ships in 1.7.0-RC1, 18 lost ships in my build
12:31:09  <Samu> well, didn't get worse at least
12:31:48  <Samu> the same lost ships
12:32:05  <UncleCJ> Here was the mention of the "fictitious PBS signal at platforms", but as he doesn't clarify much it's more confusing than helpful. He uses it correctly though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekviqorobps&t=574s
12:34:28  <Samu> 19 lost ships now for 1.7.0-RC1
12:34:34  <Samu> only 18 for mine
12:34:35  <Samu> yay
12:35:38  <Samu> now it's the opposite, 18 on original, 19 on me
12:35:42  <Samu> heh, random is random
12:36:47  <Samu> alright, enough testing, i'm satisfied with these results overall
12:43:41  <peter1138> what's the performance hit like?
12:45:22  <Samu> in 6 years, fast forward was 1 month ahead
12:45:29  <Samu> with opf
12:45:37  <Samu> yapf in 6 years had 5 months ahead
12:45:48  <Samu> npf decreased about 1 month
12:46:23  <Samu> i wonder if i conducted the tests reliably, it was by eye
12:46:28  <Samu> not fool proof
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12:49:16  <Samu>  here's OPF decing my build vs 1.7.0-RC1 http://imgur.com/kKvyNsE
12:49:21  <Samu> deciding*
12:49:57  <Samu> distance manhattan alone would decide on EAST depot
12:50:39  <Samu> OPF deciding counts how many hops it had to travel for both and then picks the lowest
12:50:44  <Samu> picks WEST
12:53:19  <Samu> i hope npf and yapf also pick west, gonna confirm
12:54:09  <Samu> yep, npf picks west
12:54:14  <UncleCJ> When you build truck loading docks - how do you prefer to do them? I'm undecided between the drive-through and "pockets" but certainly one-way streets can make a big difference
12:56:24  <peter1138> drive-through are quicker
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12:56:53  <drac_boy> hi
12:57:21  <drac_boy> how woudl you correctly call a locomotive that was both diesel-electric and battery-electric modes altogether? (and well optionally yes the diesel does recharge battery on go)
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12:58:23  <Samu> confirmed for yapf, also picks west
13:00:15  <Samu> and now, let me showcase the biggest reason why I made this patch
13:01:27  <Samu> http://imgur.com/qGgoZSt
13:01:29  <Samu> keks
13:01:39  <Samu> I did it
13:01:56  <Wolf01> drac_boy, hybrid?
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13:03:58  <drac_boy> wolf..hmm so in that case lets see if I perhaps get this right: diesel-electric = diesel to traction, diesel hybrid = diesel&battery multimode, electro-diesel = diesel or electric-pickup to traction multimode
13:04:21  <Samu> now with the other depot blocked, http://imgur.com/bic4fKg
13:04:23  <Wolf01> Do diesel traction engines exists?
13:04:33  <drac_boy> or you got nay other thoughts wolf?
13:05:32  <Wolf01> I always thought that after steam everything mounted electric engines with various power system... steam turbine, gas, diesel and catenary
13:06:52  * drac_boy bonks wolf with the thing called mechanical or hydrostatic/hydraulic :P
13:08:00  <Wolf01> Not for transporation, I see them more for caterpillars
13:08:22  <drac_boy> which country you from again btw?
13:08:39  <Wolf01> Banana's republic
13:08:53  <drac_boy> that would explain some of it
13:10:40  <drac_boy> but anyhow heres a relatively small/medium sized hydraulic as easily noted by the shafts inside the middle part of underbelly http://www.marub.ro/images/articole/locomotiva-diesel-hidraulica-1.jpg
13:11:35  * drac_boy doesn't see any immediate outline drawings for either the infamous german examples or the many "western" in england but wouldn't bother too much with the web now
13:16:59  <drac_boy> oh and wolf its still a rather minority niche but theres apparently still turbines .. russia started running thee in some trains as far as I recall news for it early last year (or late two years ago...not recalling) http://www.railjournal.com/media/k2/items/cache/9421db24f7b59a33518581167d545b9b_XL.jpg
13:17:30  <drac_boy> then again they got heavy freight through a lot of populationless place .. plus tons of their own internal fuel sources so .. I guess burning lng isn't too bad :)
13:17:53  <drac_boy> the first unit is basically a glorified lng tanker with cab added to it .. the real stuff is in the second unit heh
13:18:39  <Wolf01> Oh, so the DB class V200 is hydraulic, nice to know, TBH I don't really care about how an engine is moved, I' fine with the power source classification
13:20:58  <drac_boy> wolf well, just to add - there one thing that nearly all diesel-hydraulic have .. passive traction control .. diesel-electric have absolutely nothing unless you add very expensive sensory&throttle computers to every single separate axles
13:23:38  <Wolf01> BTW, without trying to get too much smartass on me (I'm don't know every single bit of rail info, just the general part, so it isn't needed to pick on me because I didn't know or just ignored some niche things), this might answer to your first question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_train
13:24:12  <drac_boy> as for power source classification yeah that was one thing german did really well at (the UIC system is a bit stupid compared to it but no comment tho) ...
13:24:38  <drac_boy> :)
13:25:13  <drac_boy> some other countries did have a bit of their own simple classifications too (even if english translation could be a little colorful)
13:25:53  <drac_boy> like eg a tank locomotive would be lettered K for Kusy which in english translates to "chopped off" .. a colorful way to state its a tank not tender steam locomotive ;)
13:26:54  <supermop> yo
13:27:39  <Wolf01> o/
13:27:46  * drac_boy grabs the big mop and make a big watery "mess" on the floor
13:27:51  <drac_boy> hows the silly mop? :P
13:27:59  <drac_boy> heh
13:28:08  <Wolf01> I'm going to make a watery mess on the shower instead
13:28:24  * drac_boy jabs the mop into wolf's feet then
13:28:56  <peter1138> i'm not sure i like the connotation of "mess" in quotes...
13:33:44  <supermop> its fairly rainy here
13:34:40  <Wolf01> Is fairly summer here
13:35:19  <Wolf01> Not sure what to wear :S
13:37:38  <Samu> i'm bored
13:37:55  <peter1138> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9a/eb/0f/9aeb0f69100520c0c78f8a8577248f04.jpg
13:37:58  <peter1138> seems suitable
13:38:10  <peter1138> Samu, try your patch with a real test case
13:38:22  <peter1138> there must be some large openttdcoop game with lots of ships, right?
13:38:35  <Samu> 1.7.0?
13:39:41  <Samu> there's only 1 openttdcoop game, it requires newgrf stuff, gah, i hate to have that folder filled with crap
13:39:51  <peter1138> what?
13:39:59  <peter1138> there's loads of openttdcoop savegames
13:40:20  <Samu> i was going online :(
13:40:30  <Samu> where are those savegames, must find
13:50:06  <Samu> nobody plays with breakdowns, damn it
13:50:57  <drac_boy> samu its called single-player game :)
13:54:21  <Samu> NewGRF presets don't work as I think
13:55:24  <Samu> instead of Delete preset, I wish for a Delete NewGRF
13:55:31  <Samu> from the system
13:55:39  <Samu> not from the list
13:57:25  <Samu> if i can delete savegames, why not delete newgrfs :(
13:57:56  <drac_boy> samu its called folder delete
13:58:12  <Samu> i want to keep some, not all
13:58:47  <Samu> the more newgrf games i join, the bigger that list becomes with stuff i don't even care
14:00:18  <Samu> and then the next time, the game listing mixes it up with all the newgrfs i have installed, i don't quite like this
14:00:55  <Samu> just because I have it, doesn't mean i want it sorted
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14:02:19  <Samu> why not sort vanilla games on top, newgrf games below
14:02:37  <Samu> at least they're not mixed up, would be easier to distinguish
14:03:05  <drac_boy> you do know how to read row icons don't you?
14:03:19  <drac_boy> theres already an icon for games that aren't vanilla
14:04:04  <Alberth> o/
14:04:33  <Samu> that's not how it works
14:05:07  <Samu> vanilla and newgrfs are mixed together, unsorted
14:05:19  <Samu> if i already have the newgrfs that is
14:06:04  <drac_boy> samu yes it is .. icon = grf .. no icon = vanilla
14:06:08  <drac_boy> it never changes simple as it
14:06:24  <drac_boy> hi alberth? :)
14:06:46  <Samu> it shows a green icon if i have the newgrf...
14:07:20  <Samu> if i don't have the newgrf it shows yellow
14:07:58  <Samu> my problem is... when i have those newgrfs installed, it shows green, the game is listed without criteria if it's vanilla or newgrf
14:08:10  <Samu> that sucks
14:08:41  <peter1138> ...
14:08:43  <Samu> i have to check one by one
14:08:52  <Samu> to see if it's vanilla or not
14:11:11  <Samu> the easier way to filter newgrf games out is to delete the entire folder
14:11:22  <Samu> see them listed as yellow
14:11:38  <peter1138> if you have the newgrf, what's the problem?
14:12:03  <Wolf01> Oh, is tomorrow the 1.7.0 day?
14:12:19  <Samu> but it happens that I want to keep some newgrfs installed, but still a way to distinguish vanilla from those installed newgrfs
14:12:28  <Samu> bah, nobody understands me
14:12:31  <Samu> i give up
14:13:27  <Samu> i wouldn't like to delete the folder everytime I want to list vanilla games
14:14:05  <Wolf01> I came up with a 1.7.0 announce while showering
14:14:06  <peter1138> lol
14:14:19  <peter1138> customer called, reoslved his query
14:14:26  <peter1138> then he said "thank you for your call"
14:14:29  <peter1138> yeah no
14:14:34  <Wolf01> Lol
14:15:52  <drac_boy> and what was it wolf? :)
14:16:12  <Wolf01> I need to regroup the ideas and write it first
14:16:26  <peter1138> Wolf01, dunno, i imagine there may be some back porting. dunno though.
14:17:35  <Wolf01> I write it down anyway
14:22:06  <peter1138> :)
14:25:37  <Samu> is 1.7.0 coming with the cpu evaluator thingy?
14:25:48  <Samu> RIP GS's
14:25:55  <Samu> RIP AI's
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14:29:39  * drac_boy is still waiting for two overdue updates too :-/
14:33:43  <drac_boy> (if anyone's ever bothered, 1. platform support and 2. being able to use real signalling)
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14:34:35  <Samu> just build separate stations adjacent to each other
14:35:52  <drac_boy> samu, and how does that even help #2 one bit at all other than for wasting much more land and still not being able to redirect trains anyway?
14:35:55  <drac_boy> just asking
14:36:43  <Samu> use one station just for a cargo
14:37:20  <Samu> a farm producing livestock and grain, build 2 stations adjacent to each other
14:37:32  <drac_boy> samu and how is that EVEN one bit relevant to #2 pls?
14:37:41  <Samu> train grain goes to one of the stations
14:37:48  <Samu> livestock goes to the other
14:38:29  <Samu> what is real signalling?
14:40:11  <drac_boy> divert trains by operation types aside to for example holding a red if certain conditions at other signals aren't met (even if the immediate route was still clear)
14:40:20  <drac_boy> dunno why you think thats got anything to do with stations tbh
14:45:26  <Samu> http://imgur.com/qfvPAjf
14:46:19  <Wolf01> Ok, I think I'm fine with my announce
14:47:08  <Wolf01> It might need some syntax checking btw
14:48:19  <Samu> if 2 grain trains are at the platforms and a 3rd grain train wants to go in, it won't, it stops at red sign
14:49:28  <Samu> if the 3rd train was livestock, it would proceed to its livestock station
14:49:45  <drac_boy> samu now pls explain this: how to make the signal at entry of factory stay red if there is not at least one goods train already inside?
14:50:12  <Samu> separate that then
14:50:31  <drac_boy> samu do I need to repeat? how to make the signal R-E-D
14:50:45  <Samu> 1 station where trains unload livestock and grain, the other where trains load grain
14:50:52  <Samu> then i dunno
14:51:04  <peter1138> drac_boy, without programmable signals... nope
14:51:40  <peter1138> just do it the easy way, separate platforms
14:52:36  <drac_boy> and how do you suggest trying to make timetable for goods trains to use 2+ platforms and not even knowing which one is empty?
14:52:56  <drac_boy> easier to do it at the signal level as ttdxp had for a rather long time by comparison
14:53:39  <peter1138> cool, play ttdp for now then :p
14:53:40  <Samu> oops load goods*
14:54:55  <peter1138> at least ttdp can't look as shit as openttd
14:55:37  <Samu> never played ttd patch
14:55:38  <drac_boy> and also as a bonus it lets you build uk-style stations for mixed bidirectional&deadend express services too :)
14:56:08  <Alberth> clearly, you're playing with the wrong program :)
14:56:09  <drac_boy> (because the through line has plain signal but the bay track has lengthrestrict signal :) )
14:57:48  <peter1138> https://www.rcts.org.uk/cache/photographs/branches/thames%20valley/55034%20%20at%20Princes%20Risborough%20Princes%20Risborough%2027Sep16%20Stuart%20Hicks.780.jpg
14:58:03  <peter1138> ^ this lovely yummy modern train is what i see on my bike ride to work every day...
14:59:35  <Alberth> looks lovely indeed
15:00:39  <peter1138> hmm, built in 1960
15:01:16  <Samu> Alberth: is my patch good?
15:01:20  <drac_boy> wouldn't lay the stowaway track to the rightmost ingame but even then heres an example of the bay platform in reality still https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7c/40/e0/7c40e0ea9952b4d1fca868309371d4e6.jpg
15:01:22  <Alberth> it also looks aged, but still good :)
15:01:23  <Samu> depots for ships :p
15:01:38  <peter1138> ooh 300hp
15:01:54  <drac_boy> railcar or any short <3 car services can borrow the stubby platform for themself to avoid blocking the heavy express trains from going through nonstop
15:02:34  <peter1138> drac_boy, in ottd trains already try to choose an appropriately long platform
15:03:01  <drac_boy> well dunno about you but one single signal is all it takes to make any non-thru short train not block the main line :)
15:03:06  <Alberth> Samu: no idea, imho, pathfinding should become much faster first
15:03:48  <peter1138> yeah i suggested he test it with a bigger game than his tiny test case :p
15:04:16  <drac_boy> will admit that it should be possible for a train to leave deadend platform then reverse its direction mid-route but I think the game code is too complex to warrant doing such a thing so meh with it :p
15:04:41  <peter1138> admit?
15:04:51  <drac_boy> (at least as a semi-cheat a waypoint placed on deadend track sorta does a similar job)
15:04:52  <peter1138> not exactly an admission that
15:05:38  <peter1138> our pathfinders can't trace back over an existing path
15:06:18  <peter1138> a* doesn't know anything about unable to turn
15:10:17  <drac_boy> no? hm well dunno what to say about that as the train orders has no problem being instructed in this 3-orders manner: 1. go to City2 (and gets signal-redirected into the bay platform) 2. go via Waypoint (which is a deadend track making the train bounce into other direction) 3. go to city1 (which wasn't accessible from the bay platform route anyhow)
15:10:29  <peter1138> well obviously
15:10:44  <peter1138> the pathfinder goes to each destination in turn
15:11:03  <drac_boy> ah you were talking about without the waypoint? yeah I see your point there too sorry :)
15:12:45  <Samu> I'm not sure if its faster, my unreliable tests indicated that it's faster
15:12:54  <Samu> not scientifically measured
15:13:02  <Samu> only npf became slower
15:14:23  <Samu> unless i run it for 100 years in fast forward? :(
15:14:50  <Alberth> depots are rarely used, gaining some speed for a seldomly used feature doesn't help
15:15:27  <Samu> yeah ppl dont use breakdowns most of the time :|
15:16:06  <Alberth> even with breakdowns, it's seldomly used, compared with regular path-finding between harbours/buoys
15:17:19  <Samu> t.t i like the auto-service feature
15:17:59  <Alberth> sure, I use it too, as I play with breakdown enabled :)
15:19:29  <Alberth> but how often does a ship need service? almost never
15:19:39  <Samu> every 360
15:19:46  <Alberth> ok
15:19:47  <Samu> if default
15:20:08  <Alberth> I would prefer to have a speedup for the remaining 359 days instead
15:21:03  <Alberth> and not 10-20% faster, but 200-500% faster, preferably even more
15:25:37  <peter1138> Alberth, this isn't a speed up for servicing
15:25:53  <peter1138> Alberth, this is "don't try to go to unreachable depot"
15:26:30  <Alberth> fair enough
15:26:41  <Samu> it's both
15:27:20  <peter1138> this may improve performance and it may stop ships being unable to route and causing lag
15:27:29  <peter1138> s/and/as/
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15:40:18  <Alberth> hi hi
15:40:25  <Zuu> Hello
15:40:55  <drac_boy> anyway going to sort out lunch here
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15:41:07  <Zuu> When I start a game with WAS (world airline set) in 1950, human player cannot construct airports, but my old PAXLink AI builds a small airport fine. :-)
15:41:21  <Alberth> haha :)
15:41:40  <Zuu> In the GUI the airport button is disabled.
15:42:06  <Alberth> it has secret ways in, built for it, by the devs of the game :p
15:42:17  <Zuu> :-)
15:43:18  <Zuu> CluelessPlus on the other hand finds no possible nodes to connect. Maybe it use an API that list zero available airports or something.
15:43:48  <Zuu> Instead of just trying with the constant ID that the small airpot have. :-)
15:43:53  <Alberth> yeah, stuff not properly connected or cross-checked
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15:53:18  <Wolf01> What bothers me most is that my friend in a coop play is able to run steam trains without cabeese
15:53:51  <peter1138> haha
15:54:09  <peter1138> apparently it's a bad feature
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15:55:16  <Alberth> o/
15:55:23  <Wolf01> Oh, cat returned
15:55:31  <Wolf01> Mating season or what?
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15:56:49  <andythenorth> hi
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16:14:57  <Samu> might have to edit a v5, i found a peculiar situation t.t
16:15:42  <Samu> if (sfdd.best_length == UINT_MAX || sfdd.best_length >= max_distance)
16:16:14  <Samu> i'm wondering if I should remove ' || sfdd.best_length >= max_distance'
16:16:25  <andythenorth> such
16:16:27  <andythenorth> but such what?
16:16:30  * andythenorth has been away
16:16:53  <Wolf01> We noticed it
16:17:30  <andythenorth> Wolf01: fancy merging trunk to NRT?
16:17:39  <andythenorth> there are conflicts...
16:17:43  <andythenorth> :|
16:17:44  <Wolf01> I noticed
16:18:56  <andythenorth> hmm, man
16:19:01  <andythenorth> * maybe
16:19:51  <andythenorth> maybe FIRS
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16:26:02  <Samu> nop, it's not this
16:29:53  <peter1138> how can there be conflicts when ottd is dead!
16:30:17  <andythenorth> oh
16:30:20  <andythenorth> I missed that :P
16:30:45  <andythenorth> sounds greatly exaggerated
16:36:58  <Zuu> Hmm was library variables scoped off for AIs/Scripts?
16:37:02  <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aVqEMVw_460sv.mp4 conflicts
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16:38:18  <Zuu> In the past they shared the global scope with the host AI. But now a list that SuperLib store in global scope variable is retained, but the content is empty on the second call.
16:40:39  <Zuu> But it only occur with WAS. And it makes no sense..
16:41:25  <andythenorth> hi Zuu
16:41:31  <Zuu> Hi andythenorth
16:42:03  <andythenorth> hmm FIRS bugs
16:42:13  <andythenorth> never fix themselves :P
16:43:52  <Zuu> Although before loosing the list, it is able to add item 0 twice to the list which should not be possible. A small dummy AI is not able to reproduce that.
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16:52:16  <Zuu> Hmm, no it is not. It is just me forgetting to write ", _" in foreach(item, _ list)
16:54:15  <Zuu> Oh.. and the truncated list is probably just by-ref :-)
16:57:37  <Samu> zuu, do you work on clueless plus?
16:58:18  <Samu> cpu evaluator kills many AIs, i think clueless plus and paxlink die when placing HQ
16:58:38  <Samu> choochoo dies
16:58:41  <Samu> mailai dies
16:59:34  <Samu> either terron or otvi dies, i forgot which
16:59:36  <Samu> i think its otvi
17:01:16  <Zuu> Samu: I looked into why it was not trying to build airports in the WAS test. But not really developing on it really.
17:05:54  <Zuu> It seem to be fixed by the SuperLib fix to always return copies of the internal cache instead of returning pointer to the cache.
17:06:56  <Zuu> It relates also to starting the game before there is any airplane available (and other modes disabled) and then continue into a time when aircrafts are available.
17:08:43  <Zuu> I have fixed the HQ problem of CluelessPlus locally.
17:09:54  <Zuu> Its recursive valuator usage that kills CluelessPlus which is easy to rewrite, but requires some time from the author. :-)
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17:25:02  <Samu> nice, thx
17:25:24  <Samu> once 1.7.0 is released i may test some ais
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18:19:30  <Samu> i can improve Yapf a bit, gonna try avoid that go back and forth when trying to service at a nearby depot
18:20:31  <Samu> will make it, either go, or never go
18:21:28  <Samu> this is "kinda" how OPF is doing
18:21:37  <Samu> it doesn't get into a deadlock
18:22:05  <Samu> unless i haven't made it trigger it
18:22:23  <Samu> trigger yet*
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18:34:44  <Wolf01> Quak
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18:39:30  <frosch123> moi
18:57:07  <andythenorth> lo frosch123
19:04:02  * andythenorth needs some FIRS station names
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19:09:48  <Samu> is this single line correct coding style?	CYapfCostShipT() : m_max_cost(0) { }
19:10:08  <Samu> do I need { } ?
19:10:20  <Samu> do i put them in the next 2 lines?
19:10:57  <Samu> if it's single line is it {} or { } ?
19:12:01  <Samu> my copy paste skills can't deal with this
19:25:59  <peter1138> who knows!
19:26:24  <Wolf01> I would use ; instead of { }
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19:28:09  <Wolf01> Oh, I didn't understand what's written in that line, it seemed a ternary operator
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19:31:13  <peter1138> heh
19:36:42  <glx> looks like an empty constructor
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19:39:27  <Wolf01> Yeah, looking at it, it looks as a method definition for partial class
19:40:15  <Wolf01> Or a value object
19:41:42  <Wolf01> Also, andythenorth, how do you sync with trunk in your repo? I tried it to see where it conflicts but I can only sync between branches or my clone, while on my clone I see all the clones from github o_O
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19:48:28  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I added ottd trunk as a git remote to my repo
19:48:37  <andythenorth> it was a command line thing
19:48:41  <andythenorth> not hard though
19:49:27  <andythenorth> https://help.github.com/articles/adding-a-remote/
19:50:05  <Wolf01> Oh that thing which doesn't work when you checkout with SVN from github
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19:54:00  <peter1138> github does svn?
19:54:43  <Wolf01> You can checkout, yes
19:55:10  <Wolf01> But remotes don't seem to work, even if it should just create an external
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19:56:09  <Wolf01> :o
19:56:10  <Wolf01> Look who is here
19:56:11  <Wolf01> o/
19:56:49  <Belugas> naaaa....  you had too much to drink ;)
19:56:56  <Belugas> delirium tremens!
19:58:34  <Wolf01> How is going?
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20:01:31  <peter1138> Belugas, Belugas Belugas Belugas <3
20:02:55  <Belugas> :D
20:02:56  <peter1138> speaking of drink
20:03:14  <Belugas> lol!  I have a reputation ^^
20:04:18  <andythenorth> is Belugas
20:06:41  *** bwn has quit IRC
20:07:54  <Belugas> I came just because there is someone is celebrating something thoday ^^
20:08:25  <Wolf01> Like, your birthday?
20:08:52  *** Progman has quit IRC
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20:11:43  <Belugas> not mine ;)  mine is in december.  and at my age (now 52), that is not a date i want to celebrate lol!!!!
20:16:43  <V453000> birthday?
20:18:31  <Belugas> yeah, a birthday :)  a good friend of mine!
20:20:17  <Samu> i just smartened Yapf
20:20:40  <Samu> there's a greater degree with yapf than with the others
20:20:49  <Samu> but it's much harder to understand
20:21:32  <Samu> ship will no longer go back and forth
20:22:05  <Samu> gpnna try do it for npf too, hopefully I can
20:24:30  <Samu> degree of customizability*
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21:02:48  <Wolf01> https://www.amazon.com/Million-Random-Digits-Normal-Deviates/dp/0833030477/ yeah
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21:34:52  <__ln__> Wolf01: have you read it through?
21:35:32  <Wolf01> Yes I usually read some PI cyphers before sleeping
21:35:52  <Wolf01> BTW, the comments are funny
21:36:34  <Samu> i can improve npf code a little bit
21:36:37  <Samu> yay
21:37:32  <peter1138> pom te pom
21:37:34  <Wolf01> He looks like my chatbot... quiet for hours, when you start talking it starts too with another random argument
21:39:55  <__ln__> i read a whole 10 lines of those random digits, and i found a pattern.
21:41:24  <Wolf01> I found a pattern too, writing prime numbers in a square
21:41:31  <Wolf01> At school, while bored
21:43:12  <Wolf01> I found it years later while watching numberphile on youtube...
21:46:30  <peter1138> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChgvPTVpbzs
21:47:15  <Wolf01> It's.... wonderful
21:57:03  <Wolf01> Heh, I'm now trapped in a loop of their videos
22:03:32  <peter1138> heh
22:04:53  <__ln__> which king's singers?!
22:05:02  <__ln__> it's an old video but not that old
22:05:19  <Wolf01> All of them, old, new ones
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22:10:13  <Samu> _npf_aystar.max_path_cost = 0;
22:11:23  <Samu> this needs to be changed to _npf_aystar.max_path_cost = _settings_game.pf.npf.maximum_go_to_depot_penalty in the case of depot searching
22:11:49  <Samu> how do I do this, must think
22:12:47  <Samu> it's not even done for trains or road vehicles either
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22:13:51  <Samu> why didn't u do it?
22:14:59  <Samu> you have npf searching depots for road vehicles and trains, you have a game setting about max depot penalty for npf, but then it's not implemented :(
22:15:13  <Wolf01> To confuse you
22:15:33  <Samu> in essence, that setting does nothing, no matter what u set in there
22:16:06  <Wolf01> We should really remove NPF
22:16:14  <peter1138> And OPF
22:16:24  <peter1138> i would but i'm watching numberphile now
22:16:45  <Wolf01> :D
22:18:45  <Zuu> Fixed SuperLib pathfinder not timing out (patch by yorg), then fixed that it was returning "not found" status code instead of "timeout" when it does timeout. 3rd: fixed that it was using up PF loops too fast. :-)
22:19:23  <Zuu> Now CluelessPlus can again use the road bulider. :-)
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22:33:28  <__ln__> a Zuu since a very long time
22:33:44  <Zuu> (-:
22:33:58  <Wolf01> Just broke my neck
22:34:11  <Zuu> It is actually not that long since I was here last. A month or too.
22:34:20  <Zuu> But before that, yes indeed.
22:34:53  <peter1138> wut
22:38:55  <peter1138> damn, you look at patches
22:39:03  <peter1138> and they do some weird things :S
22:39:28  <Wolf01> Did you trip in the ottd dev forum?
22:41:33  <peter1138> heh
22:41:45  <peter1138> apparently i've collecting my own patches again too
22:43:39  <peter1138> jgr's patch has "minimap-screenshot-rect" and "smallmap-screenshot"
22:44:34  <Wolf01> I think I'll do bed stuff now, like reading a book and sleeping over it... before falling on numberphile again
22:44:51  <Wolf01> See you later... 'night
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23:02:40  <peter1138> brup
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23:09:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27838 trunk/src/news_gui.cpp (2017-04-01 01:09:50 +0200 )
23:09:59  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Small news window's fake caption (r19943) was not sized to fit its text.
23:18:25  <peter1138> town rating in town label patch is weird
23:18:52  <peter1138> makes the population_in_label setting not work right
23:20:50  <peter1138> oh god that syntax
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23:36:53  <Samu> woah, i went further back to r1751 and npf always had used _npf_aystar.max_path_cost = 0;
23:37:03  <Samu> npf was born in r1751
23:37:13  <Samu> nobody ever implemented it :(
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