Log for #openttd on 2nd April 2017:
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00:03:56  <Samu> wow, his code is very much alike mine, lol
00:06:29  <Samu> is juanjo on irc?
00:06:43  <Samu> we should talk
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01:11:27  <luaduck> yo, trying to debug a segfault when running under docker, what's the easiest way to get openttd to vomit a stacktrace?
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01:38:35  <luaduck> gdb is throwing me a "no stack" when doing bt after running make run-gdb
02:03:54  <luaduck> nevermind, needed to be in privileged mode: says it's throwing an exception in LZMASaveFilter
02:27:28  <luaduck> for the record, I've documented the fault at
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06:04:45  <peter1138> luaduck,
06:05:29  <peter1138> though i'd be surprised if anything had changed in ottd
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07:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> luaduck: in debug builds, there is a key that deliberately crashes the game (i think it's something like Alt+0, but i'm not sure)
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08:03:14  <__ln__>
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08:11:05  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i'm not quite sure i understand all of this
08:11:29  <Eddi|zuHause> especially the "important" paragraph
08:19:32  <__ln__> i guess they're implying "important" is not a word that would normally be used with "amount"... however, such combination seems to be used outside of EU texts all over the web.
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08:23:24  <Alberth> :o such late time
08:23:26  <Alberth> hi hi
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08:49:34  <Wolf01> Moin
08:50:08  <Wolf01> Meh hangover from ginger ale...
08:53:10  <Alberth> moin!
08:56:24  <ZirconiumX> Hi Alberth
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09:17:09  <Samu> hi
09:17:54  <Eddi|zuHause> "Animal Adventure Park Giraffe Cam" yeah, that is certainly what i was looking for, youtube...
09:18:25  <Wolf01> I don't want to look at youtube suggestions after what I've seen lately
09:21:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "You have reached the Russian embassy, your call is very important to us. To arrange a call from a Russian diplomat to your political opponents, press one.
09:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> To use the services of Russian hackers press two.
09:21:09  <Eddi|zuHause> To request election interference, press three and wait until the next election campaign. Please note that all calls are recorded for quality improvement and training purposes."
09:24:41  <V453000> is?
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09:40:17  <Alberth> hi V453000, nice blog, but   "So I re-used some of the BRIX sources and code, and continued" <-- shouldn't that be RAWR ?
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09:42:13  <Alberth> yo andy
09:42:31  <andythenorth> lo
09:43:15  <Wolf01> o/
09:47:29  <Samu>!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjilbCYvOwjrUqH_u5
09:47:33  <Samu> does it open?
09:48:25  <andythenorth> video of two screens?
09:48:34  <Samu> yes
09:53:28  <V453000> Albrth yeah need to proofread at least once, was tired yesterday
09:55:27  <Alberth> not a good time to post important news :)
09:56:34  <V453000> important are products, words less :)
10:00:34  <Alberth> pictures say many words :D
10:01:02  <V453000> take much time to make though :P
10:01:21  <Alberth> pictures also take many words :p
10:01:50  <Alberth> but it's good to see you have a clear goal, that is half the project, often
10:03:00  <V453000> yeah, let's see how many times it changes
10:04:16  <V453000> but a decision "won't do new big features" is easy to follow usually :P
10:06:48  <Wolf01> "I mostly use canals to divert multi level rivers. Gonna need an alt solution now :(" Lol
10:08:42  <Alberth> lots of canal discussion :)
10:09:16  <Wolf01> I really moved the waters eh :D
10:09:28  <Alberth> haha :)
10:09:52  <Alberth> V, new big features are usually just moved to the next project :p
10:10:13  <Wolf01> Shame nobody was like "wow NRT might be in trunk" but everyone "Don't remove canals plz"
10:10:42  <V453000> we'll see
10:10:51  <andythenorth> if you go trolling, you get what you get
10:11:39  <Wolf01> If only I were more smart, I would have prepared some "NotShips" branch with ships disabled and desert in place of the water
10:12:08  <Wolf01> And linked that in the announce, with screens to
10:12:12  <Wolf01> *havok*
10:14:10  <Wolf01> I love how mean andy could be XD
10:14:47  <andythenorth> I used a smiley
10:14:56  <andythenorth> that’s not mean, that’s English :P
10:15:06  <Wolf01> :D
10:15:27  * andythenorth is always surprised how direct mainland Europeans are :P
10:16:22  <Wolf01> BTW, we should really consider to remove canals and make them an addon (smiley)
10:17:50  <andythenorth> srsly
10:18:14  <Wolf01> Like is tramway
10:26:01  <Rubidium> well... how many people are asking for ye olde AI?
10:26:25  <V453000> andythenorth: iz brix :)
10:26:48  <V453000> the converted 8bpp is actually almost unusable because of some things
10:26:49  <Wolf01> Eh, I want old bugs reintroduced... mmmh, this might be the next year's april fool joke
10:26:52  <andythenorth> iz? o_O
10:26:54  <V453000> slopes look shit, shadows look shit
10:26:57  <V453000> andythenorth: look iz
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10:27:22  <andythenorth> where iz?
10:27:25  <andythenorth> not in tt-f?
10:27:35  <V453000> tt-f, openttdcoop blog, bananaz
10:29:30  <Samu> can't embed videos on the forum?
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10:29:55  <andythenorth> V453000: reckon you can keep up with how fast I add cargos to FIRS? o_O
10:30:10  <V453000> andythenorth: eventually :P
10:30:27  <V453000> the universal wagon makes sure it techically works, regarding sprites it's harder
10:30:42  <V453000> I want to rewrite the system to utilize the layering, and recolour masks
10:31:00  <V453000> it's so much less sprites for so much better result & maintainability
10:34:13  <andythenorth> much
10:35:23  <V453000> I mainly retrospectively regret not utilizing the recolours on cargo things
10:36:26  <andythenorth> recolours are my favourite way to cargo
10:36:35  <andythenorth> Road Hog tankers just change colour for cargo :P
10:36:49  <V453000> it's how NUTS does it as well, just not in code :)
10:37:07  <V453000> I actually managed to do it quite fast after doing thousands of sprites that way
10:37:10  <andythenorth> I considered that box wagons should change colour too
10:37:12  <V453000> but yeah still just way much pain
10:37:18  <andythenorth> and whether I could match them to cargo colour in game
10:37:20  <andythenorth> but eh
10:37:23  <V453000> everything should change colour
10:37:27  <V453000> rainbow everything
10:37:29  <V453000> slugs rule
10:37:30  <V453000> G_G
10:37:33  <V453000> automate
10:37:56  <andythenorth> such game
10:38:35  <Wolf01> I'm having some ideas for a new industry set. How many different cargo an industry can accept and produce?
10:39:27  <Wolf01> Also, can industries change cargo with ages?
10:39:39  <andythenorth> 3 in, 2 out
10:39:41  <andythenorth> and no
10:39:47  <Wolf01> Meh
10:39:55  <andythenorth> they can change when constructed
10:40:08  <Wolf01> I need like 8 in, 8 out and year based
10:40:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably won't get that...
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10:42:21  <andythenorth> sounds awful :D
10:42:25  <andythenorth> what’s the idea?
10:43:58  <Alberth> build clusters of industries :p
10:44:12  <Wolf01> Some late game futuristic stuff
10:44:26  <Alberth> bbl
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10:48:52  <V453000> Wolf01: ?
10:48:54  <V453000> wat be idea?
10:49:24  <Wolf01> Idea died, that was the core point to start from :(
10:49:52  <V453000> what
10:50:24  <Wolf01> Grf set in cooperation with a gamescript to make a sort of puzzle game
10:50:36  <V453000> nice, any specifics ? :)
10:51:40  <Wolf01> More different raw materials you deliver to a processor, more different goods it produces
10:52:37  <Wolf01> Also different ages might impact on what you might obtain from it
10:52:38  <V453000> hmmm
10:52:41  <V453000> would be nice
10:52:44  <V453000> if can be done
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10:53:01  <Wolf01> Quak
10:53:07  <andythenorth> one day, industries 3 in 2 out will probably get adjusted
10:53:12  <Wolf01> It's a sort of chem factory game
10:53:14  <andythenorth> but it’s probably not much net gain
10:53:57  <Wolf01> And the final goal: build spaceships
10:55:45  <V453000> never heard about building spaceships before :P
10:55:47  <frosch123> hoi
10:55:50  <V453000> hi
10:56:17  <Wolf01> You bring in 8 cargo items and get spaceships as production
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11:02:59  <Wolf01> I was looking for a sort of A->B->C+A->B->C->B->D+A+C->B->E industry chain with fictional cargo, lot of refitting and puzzling for delivering in restricted space
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11:06:18  <V453000> seems to have gameplay idea -> I like it sofar
11:06:28  <andythenorth> such kerbals
11:06:50  <Wolf01> I think, I should go play factorio instead... it already has everything, also I can make the factory as I want :S
11:07:09  <V453000> haha
11:07:26  <Wolf01> Plus, I can ion cannon the creeps out of the map
11:15:42  <luaduck> @logs
11:15:42  <DorpsGek> luaduck:
11:16:19  <luaduck> peter1138: I'll raise that bug later tonight
11:16:44  <luaduck> once I have time to document exactly what libraries are getting pulled in
11:19:01  <luaduck> my best guess is that alpine is rocking either a really new or a really really old version of lzma
11:19:20  <Wolf01> I would like to know what weird sequence of characters makes the weblog to panic
11:22:54  <frosch123> i already know :)
11:22:56  <frosch123> it's php shit
11:27:14  <Samu> do these videos work?
11:28:31  <andythenorth> finally redrawn the iron ore mine
11:28:48  <andythenorth> no more temperate grass on non-temperate terrain
11:29:05  <andythenorth> different enough to this?
11:34:58  <frosch123> pile colors are common language to distinguish mines in various games
11:35:22  <frosch123> i am just surprised by the water tanks
11:35:33  <frosch123> i would expect them in some processing industry, not at the mine
11:36:05  <andythenorth> iron ore tends to be processed on site
11:36:07  <andythenorth> but eh
11:36:10  <andythenorth> I am not convinced
11:36:16  <andythenorth> there is other greeble I could replace them with
11:40:41  <andythenorth> seems more like it needs a loading shovel
11:40:45  <andythenorth> and some chimneys
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11:46:59  <Wolf01> Looks nice, andy
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12:08:25  <andythenorth> making it better
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12:24:41  <Wolf01> this joke make GB brexit a bit deadpool-ish
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12:34:37  <andythenorth> openttd does not like grfs being changed under it
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12:41:14  <andythenorth> crane or front loader iron ore mine?
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13:36:25  <Samu> i hate to have to separate patches
13:36:29  <Samu> when i do all at once
13:36:42  <Samu> makes no sense, i don't get it
13:36:55  <Samu> why separate things if they only make sense together
13:37:27  <andythenorth> because big diff
13:38:14  <Rubidium> so you just throw eggs, mustard and potatoes in a fryer? After all, they only make sense together
13:39:03  <Rubidium> though... good luck making fries/crisps with mayonaise that way ;)
13:40:38  <Samu>  have to undo what i've done, just for the sake of being separated, it sucks
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13:52:22  <andythenorth> if you commit atomically, it’s much easier
13:53:43  <peter1138> plus it looks like we're busier
13:53:51  <Samu> bah, the forums are bugged, can't right click or it crashes the page
13:54:06  <Samu> there goes my writtings
13:57:39  <peter1138> sounds more like your browser is buggy...
14:04:21  <Samu> hit reply on some topic
14:04:37  <Samu> the bottom part which shows the past posts is where I can't right click
14:04:41  <Samu> it crashes
14:05:09  <peter1138> "crashes"
14:05:25  <Samu> page gets stuck
14:05:35  <peter1138> works for me
14:05:47  <Samu> browser says something about having to reload page as it wasn't answering a request
14:05:56  <peter1138> i bet you're using something shitty like edge anyway
14:06:02  <Samu> i'm using edge
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14:26:23  <peter1138> hi
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14:28:50  <andythenorth> done, for now
14:34:36  <Alberth> feeling a bit blue? :)
14:35:00  <peter1138> it's CC, right?
14:35:03  <Alberth> looks very different from other mines, nice
14:35:20  <peter1138> well, IC
14:35:31  <peter1138> same range though heh
14:35:33  <Alberth> it's likely recourable, like the other mines
14:44:44  <andythenorth> CC
14:45:02  <andythenorth> probably needs snow
14:45:04  <andythenorth> :P
14:45:05  <andythenorth> bah
14:46:34  <andythenorth> cola canals
14:46:35  <andythenorth> not bad
14:46:41  <peter1138> pipelines
14:46:46  <andythenorth> such
14:48:51  <andythenorth> hmm
14:48:58  <andythenorth> FIRS has a fertiliser plant
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14:52:35  <Alberth> piperoad rather than pipeline :)
14:53:43  <frosch123> can camels also be called "desert ships" in english? (german has this allegory)
14:54:17  <peter1138> well once canals are removed we can fit pipes in their space
15:05:29  <andythenorth> fertiliser is made from air
15:05:42  * andythenorth considers a weird primary-secondary industry
15:13:35  <andythenorth> also salt cargo
15:16:39  * andythenorth also considers removing all industry date restrictions
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15:22:08  <Zuu> Hello
15:27:40  <Alberth> hi hi
15:27:53  <planetmaker> good evening
15:28:14  <Alberth> :o evening already, indeed
15:39:47  <Samu> i'm a terrible coder, damn
15:53:21  <andythenorth> hmm
15:53:26  <andythenorth> FIRS makefile needs work
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16:48:29  <peter1138> it's all gone quiet
16:48:47  <Alberth> it's sunday evening, and very good weather :)
16:48:49  <planetmaker> psst, don't disturb the silence :)
16:49:46  <peter1138> nobody told my weather to be nice :S
16:49:53  <V453000> slugs don't talk
16:50:59  <Wolf01> I would only talk about self pity, so better not talk
16:51:14  <Samu> doing a fastforward test with my depots patch
16:51:30  <Samu> from 1992 to 2050
16:51:36  <Samu> will see which one takes more cpu time
16:52:08  <Samu> 2051*
16:52:23  <peter1138> lol profiling
16:52:43  <Samu> yeah, i guess that is the term
16:57:25  <peter1138> not if you're doing it like that
16:58:48  <Samu> don't know how else to test it
16:59:43  <peter1138> i'd suggest using a profiler
17:03:28  <andythenorth> industry location, incomaptible industries checks
17:03:49  <andythenorth> check distances to industries supplying inputs, industries processing outputs, or both?
17:03:51  <Wolf01> Like a farm is incompatible with a mine?
17:04:12  <andythenorth> iron ore mine has to be min 16 tiles from steel mill
17:04:33  <andythenorth> hmm, maybe just check both ways, and special case supplies
17:09:19  <Samu> - what do I need?
17:09:54  <Alberth> I have a somewhat love/hate relation with nearby related industries
17:10:34  <andythenorth> +1
17:10:36  <Alberth> one the one hand it gives diversity, on the other hand, it's not making money :p
17:10:40  <andythenorth> when it suits me, it suits me
17:10:44  <andythenorth> and when it doesn’t…
17:11:21  * Zuu have a noise issue. AP ending up being closer to a different town than you plan for need you to check that other towns noise limit instead, still keeping track of the future noise budget of the planned town in a upgrade scenario.
17:11:22  <Alberth> so I have become less decided on what is best
17:11:30  <andythenorth> looks like current FIRS mostly enforces checks on primary <-> secondary
17:11:42  <andythenorth> and not secondary <-> secondary <-> tertiary
17:12:18  <Zuu> Easy solution is to only allow building new airport closest to the town it is planned for.
17:12:44  <Zuu> hm.. my code is supposed to do that already ...
17:13:14  <Zuu> Oh.. using AITile instead of AIAirport.
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17:23:08  <Alberth> you could also make it a feature to have some industries not too far away from each other :p
17:23:34  <Alberth> especially if you have slow dedicated wagons for the cargo :p
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17:24:04  <Samu> got some results
17:24:17  <Samu> 28m21s with depots patch
17:24:23  <Samu> 28m02s without
17:24:39  <Samu> that was yapf
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17:30:07  <Samu>  about ~1% slower
17:31:47  <peter1138> what map size and how many ships?
17:32:18  <andythenorth> ha I got python in a loop
17:32:19  <Samu> i used a savegame posted on the bugs
17:32:23  <andythenorth> circular imports :l
17:32:24  <Samu> used it
17:32:28  <Samu> let me find
17:32:33  <peter1138> just tell me :
17:32:47  <Samu>
17:32:57  <Samu> 89 ships i think, but there was more than just ships
17:37:01  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27841 trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp (2017-04-02 19:36:53 +0200 )
17:37:02  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Don't consider locks or ship depots as clear water when placing industries.
17:37:34  <Samu> oh noes
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18:01:20  <andythenorth> ach
18:01:30  <andythenorth> Alberth: I’ve managed to write an incompatible check that takes 30s
18:01:35  <andythenorth> :P
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18:02:36  <andythenorth> even python shouldn’t be that slow :|
18:03:03  <Alberth> oh, do enough, and it gets slow all by itself :p
18:04:55  <peter1138> dunno why i bother posting patches for george
18:04:59  <peter1138> i don't think he can ever test them
18:05:43  <Samu> npf: 40m34s with depots patch
18:05:52  <Samu> npf: 37m35s without
18:05:57  <Samu> :(
18:06:29  <Samu> i thought npf wasn't much different than yapf, what has gone wrong?
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18:11:04  <Samu> about ~9% slower
18:13:46  <andythenorth> ach, the incompatible industries check is much harder than it seems :P
18:17:11  <andythenorth> the full list of industries isn’t known until they all been inited
18:17:23  <andythenorth> but they need the incompatible check at init time
18:17:46  <andythenorth> that direction is fundamentally impossible :P
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18:21:54  <frosch123> if you want to make it more horrible, add incremental builds
18:22:17  <frosch123> read the incompatible checks from a generated file
18:22:24  <frosch123> it's empty the first time you build it
18:22:34  <frosch123> it's filled the more often you recompile
18:23:03  <frosch123> if you are lucky it converges at some point, but it can also toggle between multiple states :)
18:23:11  <peter1138> ew
18:23:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need an absolute non-cyclic abstract grammar (ANCAG) for solving your initialization problem? :p
18:23:34  <andythenorth> :P
18:26:41  <andythenorth> hmm, now my check calculation takes about 0.2s
18:26:46  <andythenorth> better than 30s
18:27:57  <Alberth> quite
18:28:04  <andythenorth> dunno if it works yet :P
18:30:22  <Alberth> just a minor detail to work out :p
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18:33:27  <Alberth> hi hi
18:33:30  <peter1138> brix 0.0.1?
18:34:12  <peter1138> brix realism is xxxx
18:34:13  <peter1138> haha
18:37:09  <Supercheese> Forum users' status: Fooled ☑      Not Fooled ☐
18:37:23  <Alberth> let's have a poll :p
18:37:37  <Supercheese> NotFooledTypes when
18:37:45  <Alberth> :)
18:38:15  <peter1138> brix trains are a bit tall i think
18:38:30  <Alberth> yeti compatible, perhaps
18:38:50  <peter1138> V453000,
18:39:07  <peter1138> V453000, V453000, V453000
18:39:21  <V453000> peter1138: are disabled by default, you never seen anything
18:39:30  <andythenorth> and this is why the best malware are the ‘malware removal tools'
18:39:36  <peter1138> :D
18:39:40  <peter1138> V453000, no i meant to say
18:39:42  <peter1138> this is awesomne
18:39:44  <peter1138> -n
18:39:52  <V453000> =D
18:40:03  <V453000> well I like the proportions of ultra chibby a lot
18:40:06  <V453000> but $time
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18:40:49  <peter1138> rough land isn't kidding
18:40:51  <peter1138> giant crater :p
18:41:53  <Supercheese> ultrachib
18:42:07  <V453000> tbh I am pretty ashamed of how BRIX looks atm
18:42:14  <V453000> might motivate me to do something with it
18:42:18  <V453000> hopefully
18:42:23  <peter1138> didn't see it last night as i don't usually read the graphics forums
18:42:51  <V453000> I uploaded it at like 0:40 a.m. today
18:44:33  <V453000> & the 8bpp is basically unusable
18:44:42  <V453000> some grass just blends together so slopes are invisible
18:44:47  <V453000> shadows are borken
18:44:48  <V453000> etc
18:45:02  <V453000> about as good proof of concept as zbase is to 32bpp :D
18:45:10  <peter1138> doesn't matter does it?
18:45:22  <V453000> everything matters
18:45:28  <peter1138> oh yeah shadows
18:45:28  <peter1138> lol
18:45:49  <peter1138> basically you don't have them in 8bpp :D
18:45:57  <V453000> yeah
18:45:59  <peter1138> i suppose you could do a black chequer dot pattern
18:46:03  <V453000> just alpha cutout rules
18:46:13  <V453000> I'll figure something out
18:46:24  <V453000> likely the checker pattern yes
18:47:07  <andythenorth> hmm
18:47:12  <andythenorth> incompatible check might work
18:47:22  <andythenorth> biab
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18:48:11  <V453000> but overall i quite like the idea of 8bpp in x4 zoom
18:48:26  <peter1138> yeah, sure it's harder though
18:48:36  <V453000> just needs tweaking the converter accordingly
18:48:47  <peter1138> ooh a guy chopping down a tree
18:48:55  <V453000> I'm just going to make a better algorithm for it and then expose many settings to control it very well
18:49:30  <V453000> for example if I see a certain terrain is getting a green I don't want it to get, I just ban that ID from that sprite/row/column/whatever
18:49:32  <Samu> lost ships are a terrible thing for OPF, still waiting
18:52:46  <Wolf01> I need to cheer up :(
18:53:10  <V453000> Wolf01: what's wrong?
18:53:13  <V453000> can't remove canals?
18:53:22  <Wolf01> Nah, can't remove real life
18:54:26  <peter1138> heh, girder bridges are weird
18:54:48  <V453000> old, new or both?
18:54:48  <Samu> peter1138: provide me a good savegame
18:54:50  <peter1138> wait no
18:54:51  <peter1138> suspension
18:55:06  <Samu> with ships doing weird things
18:55:15  <V453000> yeah the colour masks are goign wild there I think
18:55:17  <peter1138> ok what's holding up the wooden bridge... haha
18:55:23  <peter1138> V453000, nah it's the pillar
18:55:34  <V453000> built a tall bridge?
18:55:46  <peter1138> nope
18:55:51  <V453000> good XD
18:56:00  <V453000> seems to be proper fucked actually
18:56:45  <peter1138> tubular is awesome
18:56:54  <Supercheese> Totally tubular
18:56:56  <V453000> yez
18:57:04  <V453000> tubular is the shit
18:57:18  <peter1138> semaphores lol
18:57:36  <V453000> they make more sense than the original ones :P
18:58:30  <Samu> 20 game years to finish OPF test, zzzz
19:00:12  <Alberth> test-result:  "Tester fell asleep"
19:02:32  <Wolf01> OTTD needs functional tests
19:03:06  <Wolf01> It also really needs some unit tests
19:04:06  <Wolf01> Too bad that for what I've tried so far, the only way to test it is to start the game...
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19:10:56  <Alberth> "some" is an understatement :p
19:11:33  <Alberth> likely the tests will become a bigger maintenance effort than the program
19:12:03  <Wolf01> Yes, like every other program with tests
19:12:35  <peter1138> unit test the unit tests!
19:13:28  <Supercheese> Yo dawg, I heard you like tests
19:13:32  <Wolf01> On my game I only tested the static functions, just to be sure the stateless things are working right
19:13:43  <Supercheese> so we made tests for your tests so you can test while you're testin
19:14:11  <V453000> sounds like automation
19:14:29  <Wolf01> It is, just set up enough data providers :P
19:18:07  <Samu> 6 years to go
19:27:54  <Samu> it's over
19:28:18  <Samu> opf: 1h20m54s with depots patch
19:28:26  <Samu> opf: 1h19m59s without
19:29:52  <Samu> that's ~1% slower
19:30:29  <Samu> only npf became too slow
19:30:41  <Samu> ~9% for some reason, why? :(
19:44:38  <V453000> thank you for the forum post peter1138 :) I appreciate it a lot
19:52:51  <peter1138> hmm, NUTS appears twice in the content list
19:52:58  <peter1138> 0.7.8 & 0.7.9
19:53:19  <peter1138> 0.7.8 much bigger
19:54:00  <peter1138> oh i guess it is incompatible and therefore has a new grfid?
19:55:38  <frosch123> usually that only happens if it is a dependency of something else
19:56:26  <frosch123> 0.7.8 is bigger because it contains 32bpp
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20:01:13  <Zuu> Evil AI, using a very long signal block with PBS to cross a road. A short block is fine to save trucks, but 20-30 tiles blocking distance is a bit evil. :-)
20:04:29  <V453000> what different grfid?
20:04:44  <peter1138> i dunno, i guessed wrong
20:04:46  <V453000> iz same
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20:24:32  <peter1138> "but there clearly stays its not a joke."
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20:24:52  <andythenorth> Do Not Press This Button
20:26:38  <V453000> can someone explain to me what the shit is /r/place ?
20:28:24  <Supercheese> no idea
20:28:28  <Supercheese> looks like pixels
20:30:59  <frosch123> V453000: apparently every user can draw a pixel every few minutes
20:31:17  <frosch123> i have no idea how big the canvas is though, you only ever get some random section ro so
20:31:19  <V453000> well yeah but in /r/factorio it's EVERYWHERE
20:31:27  <frosch123> not just thee
20:31:33  <V453000> I can imagine
20:31:39  <frosch123> it's everywhere :p
20:31:58  <frosch123> it's the hype of the week or so
20:32:07  <frosch123> just go on vacation :p
20:32:19  <V453000> well, gnight
20:32:24  <V453000> solution there :P
20:32:48  <Samu> zuu, did you make Epic ai or whatever it's called, sec, brb
20:32:51  <frosch123> i saw a r/place screenshot with factorio though
20:32:56  <frosch123> it may be about that
20:33:17  <Samu> EpicTrans
20:33:29  <Zuu> No. That is probably Trans.
20:33:48  <Samu> Author is Tovermodus, do u know who that is?
20:34:02  <Zuu> Oh.. there is one EpicTrans on bananas. Probably a fork of Trans.
20:34:31  <LordAro> frosch123: 1000x1000, you can move around :p
20:34:45  <LordAro> but yeah, essentially PvP MS Paint
20:34:54  <LordAro> is the best way i've seen it described
20:35:19  <frosch123> well, it will be taken over by bots
20:35:33  <LordAro> not so far, as far as i'm aware
20:35:49  <LordAro> fought off a 4chan botting attempt
20:38:00  <LordAro> frosch123: probably makes it look a little better :p
20:38:28  <Zuu> No idea who that is.
20:38:51  <Zuu> The AI code is quite short, but it doesn't seem to deal with save/load.
20:39:05  <frosch123> LordAro: there are way too many flags in that
20:39:30  <LordAro> teehee
20:41:06  <Samu> what's the difference between NULL and 0 again?
20:41:19  <Zuu> I only made a few AIs :-) : Clueless(Plus), PAXLink, TownCars AI, IdleMore and Tutorial AI.
20:41:39  <Zuu> Samu: Depends on the programming language.
20:41:48  <Samu> it's a int
20:41:57  <Zuu> Is it a pointer?
20:42:06  <Samu> -   pfs.max_length = (max_penalty == NULL || max_penalty > OPF_MAX_LENGTH) ? OPF_MAX_LENGTH : max_penalty;
20:42:17  <Samu> +   pfs.max_length = (max_penalty == 0 || max_penalty > OPF_MAX_LENGTH) ? OPF_MAX_LENGTH : max_penalty;
20:42:36  <Samu> why did juanjo modified it from NULL to 0?
20:42:55  <Samu> actually, it's uint
20:43:04  <Samu> no wait, it's int
20:43:07  <Samu> lol i'm stupid, my bad
20:43:29  <Zuu> NULL is in general used to check if a pointer is equal to NULL. But 0 is usually used for integer 0.
20:44:07  <Zuu> In C++ you can compare a pointer to 0 as NULL == 0, but in other languages that does not hold.
20:44:47  <Zuu> But it is not very good style to compare a integer non-pointer variable to NULL if you mean to compare it to integer 0.
20:45:04  <Zuu> NULL is coding style wise only for comparing with pointers.
20:45:50  <Samu> Sometimes I pass max_penalty as 0, some other times i pass as OPF_MAX_LENGTH, but some other times I don't pass anything, but I suppose it's defaulted to OPF_MAX_LENGTH, or is it passed as NULL?
20:45:50  <Zuu> Though not all C++ projects use NULL. Some use 0 for both integers and pointers.
20:46:32  <Samu> how am i knowing it will be defaulted to OPF_MAX_LENGTH
20:47:00  <frosch123> LordAro: your turn to point out "nullptr" :p
20:48:08  <peter1138> Samu, ... if it has a default value... that's the default value
20:48:17  <peter1138> if it doesn't have a default value, you have to provide it
20:49:14  <Samu> static uint FindShipTrack(const Ship *v, TileIndex tile, DiagDirection dir, TrackBits bits, TileIndex skiptile, Track *track, uint max_penalty = OPF_MAX_LENGTH, TileIndex depottile = INVALID_TILE)
20:50:12  <Samu> distr = FindShipTrack(v, tile2, ReverseDiagDir(enterdir), b, tile, &track)
20:50:31  <Samu> i don't put anything past &track
20:50:39  <Samu> is it gonna use the default?
20:50:44  <Zuu> That will use the default values.
20:50:50  <peter1138> that's what default values are for, yes
20:51:13  <Zuu> Sometimes called optional function/method arguments in docs.
20:51:26  <Samu> static const uint OPF_MAX_LENGTH = 50; ///< The default maximum path length
20:51:47  <Samu> it's uint? i guess it should be int
20:51:54  <Samu> dam, i'm a terrible coder
20:52:26  <Zuu> int is only needed if it needs to hold negative values like -1.
20:52:37  <Samu> it never does
20:52:39  <peter1138> uint means unsigned int
20:53:01  <peter1138> negative values would seem bad for a penaltyu
20:53:04  <peter1138> -u
20:53:24  <Samu> but when passing this value around multiple functions, sometimes it's int sometimes it's uint
20:53:34  <Samu> but the value is always positive
20:53:49  <Samu> it confuses me, i never know if i create a uint or int
20:54:12  <Zuu> Imho it should be consistent uint, but maybe it is not in current code.
20:54:16  <Samu> code isn't consistent
20:55:01  <Samu> for example, in ship_cmd.cpp, it uses int max_penalty
20:55:07  <Samu> or int max_distance
20:56:07  <Samu> when it's passed to opf_ship.cpp, i have to compare this a uint with this int, something like uint < int, the compiler does not like this
20:56:44  <Samu> if (distdepot <= (uint)max_penalty && distdepot < best_dist) {
20:56:54  <Samu> i had to put (uint) there
20:57:57  <Samu> then there's best_dist, it's uint
20:58:09  <Zuu> Unless it use -1 anywhere as "no penalty", it may be best to make a -Codechange and fix it to consistently use uint at all places.
20:58:10  <Samu> inside the pathfinder code it's also uint
20:58:45  <peter1138> there's no max_penalty in opf_ship.cpp
20:58:48  <Samu> there's always a penalty
20:58:49  <peter1138> so the wrong type is your doing :p
20:59:02  <Samu> if it's 0, then treat it as 50
20:59:08  <LordAro> frosch123: i thought i couldn't mention that until the CF gets upgraded? :p
20:59:11  <Samu> if it's not specified, trat it as 50
20:59:24  <Samu> yes peter1138 it's my code, i suck right?
20:59:45  <peter1138> well just fix it properly instead of casting
20:59:49  <Samu> but it's not consistent with everywhere else that already uses a penalty
20:59:58  <Samu> everywhere else, it's int
21:00:13  <frosch123> LordAro: btw. we got a new user adding changelogs to the wiki
21:00:20  <Zuu> FindClosestRoadDepot do have the int/uint mismatch in trunk.
21:00:41  <Zuu> Unless it was fixed the very last few days.
21:00:49  <LordAro> frosch123: i shall have to inspect their work!
21:02:08  <Samu> yes zuu, i guess it's not the only one
21:02:08  <peter1138> Zuu, ah i see
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21:03:17  <peter1138> qwll
21:03:25  <Samu> it's int everywhere
21:03:38  <peter1138> src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf.h:FindDepotData YapfRoadVehicleFindNearestDepot(const RoadVehicle *v, int max_penalty);
21:03:41  <peter1138> src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf_road.cpp:FindDepotData YapfRoadVehicleFindNearestDepot(const RoadVehicle *v, int max_distance)
21:03:44  <peter1138> worse:
21:03:48  <peter1138> variable name is different :p
21:04:17  <Zuu> But in that case all callers of FindClosestRoadDepot supply uint data, so changing FindClosestRoadDepot to uint would be possible without having it spread further away to other parts.
21:04:54  <Samu> look at the other depots too, they're all ints
21:06:35  <Zuu> So now its possible to speed up the game by a tiny fraction by removing a uint -> int conversion for all depot types assuming it is not needed deep in the depot finding methods. :-)
21:06:46  <Samu> some say max_distance, some say max_penalty
21:07:07  <peter1138> max_distance seems more appropriate
21:07:09  <peter1138> it's not a penalty
21:07:30  <Samu> it's both at the same time
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21:07:45  <Samu> it's a penalty inside the pathfinder
21:07:48  <Samu> a distance outside it
21:08:33  <Samu> it's the total computed cost
21:08:34  <Zuu> like a generalized cost possible
21:08:35  <peter1138> it's not a penalty inside the pathfinder
21:09:23  <Samu> if it goes past that value, the pathfinder stops that node or something like that, won't look beyond that path
21:11:18  <peter1138> yes
21:12:30  <Samu> case VPF_YAPF: max_penalty =
21:12:40  <Samu> config setting uses the name "penalty"
21:16:50  <Samu> trains: uint max_penalty
21:16:53  <Samu> FindClosestTrainDepot(Train *v, int max_distance)
21:17:12  <Samu> heh, it's not consistent, but oh well
21:17:18  <Samu> as long as it works
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21:18:21  <peter1138> ^ what i posted up there :p
21:18:28  <peter1138> mismatching names for the same function
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21:18:31  <peter1138> bad :p
21:19:17  <Samu> are you gonna fix that?
21:19:25  <Samu> there's a lot of places it's being used and re-used
21:20:22  <Samu> i think aystar, inside NPF, uses int for that value
21:20:58  <Samu> it sometimes looks if the value is = -1, not entirely sure
21:21:02  <Samu> == -1
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21:22:49  <Samu> if (new_g == AYSTAR_INVALID_NODE) return;
21:22:57  <Samu> AYSAR_INVALID_NODE is == -1
21:23:31  <Samu> typo
21:24:12  <Samu> new_g is the cost of something, forgot exactly what
21:25:05  <Samu> 		case TRANSPORT_RAIL:  _npf_aystar.CalculateG = NPFRailPathCost;  break; 		case TRANSPORT_ROAD:  _npf_aystar.CalculateG = NPFRoadPathCost;  break; 		case TRANSPORT_WATER: _npf_aystar.CalculateG = NPFWaterPathCost; break;
21:25:16  <Samu> ah, cost of the node, yeah, it's always positive then
21:25:20  <Samu> or 0
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21:27:18  <Samu> is this the reason why NPF is slow? it's doing uint to int conversions all the time?
21:27:25  <peter1138> yes!
21:27:27  <peter1138> (lol no)
21:28:38  <Zuu> Slowness in programs in general comes from algorithms, not type casts or not using bit shifts etc.
21:38:43  <Samu> regarding ships, npf is slow but not annoiyng, opf is slow and random but not annoying, yapf is best but with annoying "ship it lost" brief popups
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21:47:31  <Samu> gonna experiment something with NPF, try to feed it two-way
21:47:38  <Samu> see if that makes him faster
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22:23:54  <Samu> can't do it, t.t
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22:26:49  <peter1138> erm, if i run a savegame multiple times without touching it, will the random stuff do exactly the same each time? i assume it will.
22:28:40  <peter1138> of course it should, else multiplayer would never work
22:30:45  <Samu> yes, for the same builds
22:34:16  <Wolf01> Samu, patch the game so for every new game it loads your colors and face instead of random
22:35:10  <Samu> what?
22:49:50  <Wolf01> Oh, the caboose problem seem fixed, my friend was pissed off to not be able to run steam trains without cabeese XD
22:52:51  <peter1138> you caboose
22:52:59  <peter1138> wonder what the problem was
22:53:19  <Wolf01> No clue
22:53:24  <peter1138> nothing changed like that since i ... came back
22:53:28  <Wolf01> He is still able to select € in 1850
22:54:06  <Samu> just uploaded v6
22:54:11  <peter1138> i still can't in 2017 ;(
22:54:23  <Samu>
22:54:37  <Eddi|zuHause> you won't for quite a long time i'm afraid
22:55:26  <peter1138> cunts
22:55:29  <Wolf01> TBH, he has a strange computer, this evening chivalry didn't display class selection or team selection for him...
22:56:34  <Eddi|zuHause> and my sleeping pattern doesn't align with my working pattern
22:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause> which can't be good for my health
22:58:07  <Wolf01> my sleeping pattern doesn't align with real life
23:03:00  <Samu> @logs
23:03:00  <DorpsGek> Samu:
23:06:23  <ST2> Samu: our patches don't work with 1.7.0 for not allowing rails crossings and neither the Water bourne industris ^^
23:07:14  *** gelignite has quit IRC
23:07:40  <Samu> that means no btpro for 1.7.0? :(
23:07:52  <Samu> rip btpro
23:08:00  <ST2> really?!
23:08:09  <Samu> what can you do?
23:08:11  <ST2> damn Samu
23:08:27  <ST2> you should really try more online games ^^
23:08:52  <ST2> all BTPro's are with 1.7.0
23:08:55  <Samu> nevermind, they're all listed now
23:09:09  <Samu> they weren't for 2 days, I thought they'd never come
23:09:31  <ST2> we only have a couple admins with server access
23:10:10  <ST2> I was with my nephews and no internet, the other wasn't even on his country xD
23:10:28  <ST2> that's why only updated tonight :)
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23:16:50  <Samu> Original: 1h20m54s with patch (~1.15% slower) Original: 1h19m59s without NPF: 40m34s with patch (~7.94% slower) NPF: 37m35s without Yapf: 28m21s with patch (~1,13% slower) Yapf: 28m02s without
23:16:53  <Samu> oops
23:16:59  <Samu>
23:17:04  <Samu> what I meant to paste
23:17:26  <Samu> NPF did bad, why? I don't get it
23:17:42  <Samu> peter1138: any logic explanation :(
23:21:30  <Samu> NPF, why u so slow?
23:21:35  <Samu> :|
23:23:03  <Samu> st2, do u got a non-grf server with ships? must get some savegames from them
23:23:53  <ST2> [00:23:42] <~ST2> 17limits
23:23:53  <ST2> [00:23:42] <+ttd-srv17> Current vehicle limits: Trains: 1000, Road vehicles: 1000, Ships: 40, Aircraft: 35 | Station spread: 25 tile(s), Train length: 25 tile(s)
23:24:07  <ST2> aka, server K1
23:25:30  <ST2> no NewGRF's used
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23:28:41  <Wolf01> 'night
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