Log for #openttd on 31st May 2017:
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00:13:16  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
00:15:05  <LordAro> supermop: sup
00:15:13  <LordAro> oh, wrong s
00:15:18  <supermop> WORKING
00:15:22  <supermop> haha
00:15:30  <LordAro> m'bad
00:15:33  <LordAro> do carry on
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00:53:44  <supermop> try my trucks
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03:38:20  <Deactivated> supermop what you talking about?
03:39:21  <ST2> [01:53:41] <supermop> try my trucks  <<-- try his trucks, plain simple english xD
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03:41:07  <Deactivated> xD what trucks?
03:41:28  <Deactivated> your monster truck? ok
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03:43:37  <Deactivated> ST2 try my map
03:43:57  <ST2> "your map"?
03:44:22  <Deactivated> plain simple english
03:45:09  <ST2> yup, supermop made some releases on bananas, where can I find yours?
03:45:13  <Deactivated> alright hold on, stay tuned to english
03:45:19  <Deactivated> wtf I meant reddit
03:45:37  <ST2> what is reddit?
03:46:12  <Deactivated> read it
03:46:32  <Deactivated> Reddit (stylized as reddit, /ˈrɛdɪt/) is an American social news aggregation, web content rating, and discussion website. Reddit's registered community members can submit content such as text posts or direct links. Registered users can then vote submissions up or down that determines their position on the page.
03:46:38  <ST2> that sounds like a redo stuff, like old couple trying to have sex over the 60's
03:48:15  <ST2> Deactivated: I'm installing SW on a desktop I mounted... not free time
03:48:36  <Deactivated> SW?
03:48:43  <Deactivated> Shockwave?
03:48:54  <ST2> but, about that reddit page, is it related to some porn thing?! because it seems so ^^
03:49:02  <ST2> SW = SoftWare
03:49:05  <Deactivated> ahh ok
03:49:22  <Deactivated> crap I forgot how to start my own thread rip
03:50:32  <Deactivated> ahh found the button
03:57:16  <Deactivated> alright now lemme check out supermop's stuff
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07:04:00  <andythenorth> o/
07:26:10  <crem> \o
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07:52:18  <Deactivated> o/
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10:18:56  <Wolf01> Moin
10:23:43  <Alkel_U3> hello
10:23:46  <Alkel_U3>
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13:38:23  <supermop> ST2: trucks not on bananas yet because the need NRT
13:39:29  <supermop> you can find some old station grfs of mine on bananas though
13:42:46  <V453000> I thought NRT was in stable already?
13:43:28  <supermop> no
13:43:36  <supermop> not that i know of
13:43:47  <supermop> although it's probably close
13:43:57  <supermop> there is nothing that causes crases in it
13:44:13  <supermop> only remaining work is really a matter of taste
13:44:47  <supermop> like, should you be allowed to upgrade a town road? that's kind of a philosophical question
13:44:53  <Wolf01> NRT is far from complete
13:45:08  <Wolf01> You still find bugs :P
13:45:21  <Wolf01> I should fix that convert thing
13:45:52  <supermop> Wolf01: i've never seen a bug - the convert thing is not so much a bug as just the way it is, though i'd like to see it changed
13:46:23  <supermop> i'd also like to see variety of town road types, and road that cannot spawn houses
13:46:56  <supermop> but between gaining those features and just seeing NRT as is in trunk, i'll take the trunk path
13:48:58  <supermop> V453000: the only reason i made a road set and a trolley truck set is to prod either development or inclusion of nrt
13:49:44  <supermop> though i guess now i can reuse my code to make a set out of those rendered melbourne streets i modeled two years ago
13:50:01  <V453000> yarr :)
13:51:00  <Wolf01> There's the whole gamescript stuff to finish
13:51:28  <supermop> surely that can be done later?
13:52:01  <Wolf01> Also the HasAvailableInfrastructure() I'm working on, which needs some tweaking
13:52:05  <supermop> V453000: when compositing sprites, is there any like z-ordering to determine what ovelaps what?
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13:54:41  <supermop> like if i have a container on a flatbed truck, when truck is driving north, i want the container drawn in front of the cab, but when it is driving south i want the cab drawn in front of the container
13:57:28  <V453000> I think there is some order yeah but I haven't even gotten to that
13:57:40  <V453000> I know frosch told me I can even define different ordering per rotation
13:57:53  <supermop> that's what i want
13:57:56  <V453000> which is important so that your cabin doesn't draw over cargo when facing away
13:58:11  <V453000> well yeah then that's all I know, I didn't actually try it though
13:58:28  <supermop> otherwise i need to draw like a container with notch cut out when facing forward,
13:58:30  <supermop> hmm
13:58:38  <V453000> yeah I understand
13:58:45  <supermop> ill ask frosch when i get to that point
13:59:31  <supermop> currently all my cargo is part of trailer or truck sprite, which causes huge amount of sprites
13:59:52  <V453000> right
14:00:05  <supermop> not a problem as they are all tiny files, but if i render 32bpp versions...
14:00:11  <V453000> shit I had so many dreams about nuts cargo layering
14:00:19  <V453000> no time :(
14:00:41  <V453000> factorio + family = all time
14:00:47  <supermop> haha
14:01:12  <supermop> last few weeks my design job has been taking between 70-80 hrs per week
14:01:36  <supermop> which took up all the time i wanted to spend on looking for a new job that wouldn't take up so much time
14:02:36  <supermop> luckily had this past weekend off to crank out trucks, but was a bit annoying for my wife
14:02:55  <V453000> XD
14:03:08  <supermop> mostly because she hates messy code
14:03:31  <supermop> she'd walk by my computer and see my messy indentations
14:03:44  <supermop> and be like 'why are you coding in notepad!?"
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14:08:08  <V453000> oh jeez programmer wife
14:09:07  <supermop> data scientist
14:09:19  <LordAro> lies
14:09:26  <LordAro> scientists don't care about code quality
14:12:29  <supermop> hmm code bendy buses first and just use two regular bus sprites, or draw sprites first and get stuck in several days of tweaking bus pixels?
14:13:06  <supermop> kind of want them to be 8+2+6 rather than 8+8
14:13:30  <supermop> make the bendy accordian part its own segment
14:17:48  <supermop> here is an idea: bendy part is part of rear segment, but you draw it flexing one way or the other based on cb checking "curv_info_prev_cur"
14:19:12  <supermop> for semi trucks, you could do the same thing for the hitch of the cab that goes under the trailer
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14:30:13  <supermop> can i concact strings?
14:31:17  <supermop> like have STR_MANUFACTURER + STR_MODEL_NAME + STR_TRUCK TYPE ?
14:32:42  <supermop> so i could make Mop X1 Flatbed Truck, but it randomly choose the "mop" name and the "x1"
14:38:41  <supermop> not sure this solves any problem
14:43:22  <Wolf01> andy did something like that IIRC
14:45:58  <supermop> even with no random, it might make it easier for me to name all these damn trucks
14:47:11  <supermop> though if the names of trucks could be different each play though that could be a neat illusion
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14:49:13  <planetmaker> o/
14:49:31  <planetmaker> LordAro, that depends on what kind of scientist ;)
14:50:29  <planetmaker> supermop, you can upload to bananas also NewGRFs which need special OpenTTD versions. You can query the versions and disable the NewGRF when the proper one is not found. And even restrict visibility to certain OpenTTD versions on the bananas side
14:50:38  <planetmaker> Not sure how NRT deals with the versions though
14:51:47  <supermop> planetmaker: mabe once I add busses i'll consider that
14:51:49  <LordAro> planetmaker: very true :)
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14:52:57  <V453000> :)
14:55:20  <planetmaker> supermop,  openttd_version and probably NRT could define a variable that NRT is enabled in  the ttdpatch flags maybe
14:55:28  <planetmaker> not sure it's worth the trouble, though
14:59:36  <planetmaker> <-- in there. maybe
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15:11:00  <Wolf01> what's so unrealistic about this image?
15:11:41  <Taede> looks perfectly normal to me
15:11:45  <Wolf01> The game does not have roundabouts :(
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16:01:18  <supermop> hmm does an articulated bus hold more or less than twice the passengers of a regular bus?
16:01:47  <supermop> twice the length in game for 1.5 the capacity makes no gameplay sense
16:02:26  <supermop> twice the capacity for twice the length works if there is a noticeable running cost savings
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16:10:11  <Eddi|zuHause> articulated busses are not twice the length...
16:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the articulated extension is shorter than the base part
16:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> so you get 1.5 the size for 1.5 the capacity
16:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> regular bus is 12m, articulated bus is 18.75m
16:12:41  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: shouldn't the capacity be a bit higher, as people can stand in the bendy part, and there is no drivers area?
16:13:08  <supermop> like 1.8 capacity for 1.5 length
16:13:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that depends a lot on the configuration of the bus (city busses tend to have fewer seats than long distance busses) and whether you count standing places at all
16:14:22  <supermop> also - in game costs are an afterthought, so there must be a bonus in density of seats per tile to justify the constrained granularity
16:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> also, trading number of doors for quicker entry/exit for fewer seating places
16:16:18  <supermop> yes well you could have multiple bus types that trade off capacity/cargo age/load speed
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16:17:54  <supermop> for now this bus will be 8/8 + 8/8 because i can test it without drawing new sprites
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16:19:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest making the bus 7+5
16:29:26  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: chopping 4px off the back of a regular bus to get a 7/8 front part looks pretty good
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16:29:41  <supermop>  name:                           string(STR_MRR_TB + STR_TBUS_2);
16:29:55  <supermop> want to take bets on if that will work
16:30:02  <supermop> ?
16:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely
16:31:06  <supermop> :(
16:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you likely want something like "string(STR_CONCAT, string(STR_1), string(STR_2))"
16:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause> where "STR_CONCAT:{STRING}{STRING}"
16:35:23  <Eddi|zuHause> why, for the past like 5 months or so, i have been looking at games and said to myself "hey, that looks nice, i would pay X for it", and then i look at the price and it's 2*X?
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16:39:28  <supermop> hmm
16:39:43  <supermop> it doesnt seem to recognize that
16:40:13  <supermop> "Unknown string "STR_CONCAT""
16:41:07  <supermop> is there a way i can just define a string as a combination of two strings elsewhere?
16:41:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you need to define STR_CONCAT in your lang file
16:41:51  <Eddi|zuHause> with the line i posted above
16:42:18  <supermop> STR_CONCAT:{STRING}{STRING}
16:42:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:42:23  <supermop> just like that?
16:42:25  <supermop> ill try it
16:43:15  <supermop> well no errors
16:44:17  <supermop> now i wonder if i can get more exotic and have a switch
16:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause> no, vehicle names cannot have switches
16:48:13  <supermop> oh well
16:48:22  <supermop> this still saves me a lot of strings
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16:50:14  <Alberth> o/
16:50:18  <supermop> yo
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16:53:23  <supermop> what soundds better, 'flatbed trolley truck' or 'trolley flatbed truck'
16:53:58  <supermop> 'articulated trolley bus' or 'electric articulated bus'
16:55:03  <Eddi|zuHause> first one for both
16:55:05  <Alberth> flatbed trolley truck, imho
16:55:26  <Alberth> is "articulated" of any importance?
16:56:21  <Alberth> ie, would it be comparable to "steel bus"?
16:56:39  <Alberth> (as in, it's made of steel)
16:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "Gelenk-O-Bus"
16:58:55  <supermop> Alberth: only to differentiate long and short buses in buy menu
17:00:29  <Alberth> and articulated is the common term for that?
17:00:49  <Alberth> I'd expect "long bus" or so
17:00:57  <Alberth> or maybe the suggestion by Eddi
17:01:12  <Alberth> although still quite techy
17:01:34  <supermop> articulated is what we'd typically call it, though colloquially i've heard them called bendy buses in the uk
17:02:04  <supermop> in new york, i never hear anyone talk about them colloquially
17:02:18  <Alberth> ok, that's fine, I was just wondering if it's more than a name in OpenTTD NewGRF
17:02:45  <debdog>
17:03:07  <supermop> most major routes are all articulated anyway so they do not seem notable, people who think about transit a lot call them articulated, everyone else just calls them buses
17:03:37  <Alberth> I have that same problem with the "2ccset" which suggests that its most important feature is being 2cc, rather than a set of vehicles for some purpose
17:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> debdog: well, colloquial names include "Schlenkerbus" or "Schlenki" :p
17:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> (these might be regional)
17:04:49  <debdog> yeah, never heard them
17:04:53  <Alberth> parameter!
17:05:25  <supermop> i like schlenki
17:05:32  <Alberth> :)
17:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause> well...
17:05:50  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, definitely regional ;) (never heard that)
17:06:48  <supermop> maybe that will be a model name
17:06:49  <planetmaker> but definitely a funny word :)
17:07:19  <planetmaker> to German ears that sounds like to an English-speaking person maybe wiggly sounds
17:07:44  <supermop> also like a slinky
17:08:05  <supermop>
17:08:36  <planetmaker> Ziehharmonikabus is what we call(ed) it
17:09:35  <planetmaker> (concertina-bus)
17:09:35  <Alberth> supermop: I'd expect the "e" to be pronounced like the "e" in egg
17:09:40  <Eddi|zuHause> unrelated, but colloquial names for "Zieharmonika" include "Quetschkommode" :p
17:09:50  <planetmaker> ^^
17:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard "Quetschkommodenbus" though :p
17:10:13  <planetmaker> hehe, me neither
17:10:16  <supermop> Alberth: it still has the same feeling of sound
17:10:42  <Alberth> oh sure, it's just a little less "i"-ish
17:11:05  <Alberth> you can use all the different names for this type of bus as names :p
17:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the words are likely related (have the same root), but not directly connected
17:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the dictionary defines "Schlenker" as "sudden turn in a straight movement" or "detour"
17:13:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the verb "schlenkern" has a few more meanings
17:14:02  <Eddi|zuHause> like arms swinging back and forth
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17:46:49  <andythenorth> o/
17:50:15  <Wolf01> o/
18:00:34  <supermop> yo
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18:11:30  <andythenorth> no frosch? o_O
18:13:47  <Wolf01> Seems not
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18:22:14  <andythenorth> quak
18:23:04  <frosch123> hola
18:23:58  <frosch123> RSVP? since when do english people use french abbreviations?
18:24:09  <andythenorth> since always :)
18:24:14  <andythenorth> also latin ones :P
18:26:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: can haz FIRS question?
18:26:49  <andythenorth> got a recent build of it?
18:27:01  <frosch123> it's from this year
18:27:26  <andythenorth> secondary industries now show ‘supplied’ on a per-cargo basis
18:27:31  <andythenorth> which works great
18:27:36  <andythenorth> not sure what to do with primaries
18:29:01  <andythenorth> ‘supplied’ might not be enough information, you need to know if it’s enough for ‘enhanced’ or ‘gung-ho'
18:29:10  <andythenorth> which is show separately
18:29:12  <supermop> frosch123: since 1066CE
18:29:17  <andythenorth> port industries have it worse even :)
18:30:09  <frosch123> supermop: poor welsh people
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18:37:27  <frosch123> andythenorth: you want to display "(5 crates in past 3 months)"?
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18:47:20  <andythenorth> maybe :)
18:47:34  <andythenorth> not sure what looks best to player
18:48:22  <frosch123> i think the text at the bottom is fine
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18:53:53  <andythenorth> shall I just omit the ‘supplied’?
18:53:58  <andythenorth> it’s the least work :)
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18:58:15  <frosch123> you could also just add 3 numbers
18:58:36  <frosch123> "farm supplies (30, 10, 20)"
18:58:48  <frosch123> so you can also see how long ago the delivery was
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19:13:44  <andythenorth> plausible
19:13:46  <andythenorth> bit detailed
19:21:54  <frosch123> just tell people in the readme to use the newgrf inspect window
19:26:02  <andythenorth> ha
19:26:41  <andythenorth> primaries are really just ok as they are
19:28:20  <andythenorth> port-type industries aren’t quite so good, because they have 2 or 3 input cargos
19:28:31  <andythenorth> and you want to know which ones are delivered recently
19:31:41  <supermop> bendy busses
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19:34:36  <andythenorth> eh the cargos don’t combine though, so maybe it doesn’t matter
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19:37:20  * andythenorth ducks a big chunk of work for FIRS v3
19:37:52  <frosch123> what distinguishes firs3 from firs2?
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19:41:00  <andythenorth> moar
19:41:50  <andythenorth> Steeltown economy, reworked Arctic Basic economy
19:41:57  <andythenorth> improved lots of graphics
19:42:11  <andythenorth> removed most of the industry ‘extra info’ text
19:43:25  <frosch123> i thought all of that was already released :o
19:44:40  <andythenorth> nah
19:44:48  <andythenorth> still got 3 industries to draw
19:45:18  <andythenorth> I’m going to give it a new grfid I think, because there will be haters of v3
19:45:24  <andythenorth> they can keep v2 :P
19:46:26  <supermop> release as collectors 3 DVD set
19:46:39  <supermop> is FIRS 10 years old yet?
19:47:19  <frosch123> unlikely, newindustries was only implenented to ottd 10 years ago
19:47:50  <supermop> ok you have some time for the special 10th aniversary edition andythenorth
19:48:43  <andythenorth> FIRS started in Nov. 2008
19:49:39  <andythenorth> the date stuck because I was in Mumbai at the time, and it was attacked
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19:55:27  <planetmaker> :-O nearly 10 years FIRS?
19:55:35  <planetmaker> Will we have a 10-years-firs party? :)
19:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause> we didn't have a party for quite a while now
19:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and it's not like we reach r30k anytime soon :p
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20:22:22  <andythenorth> we could have had a FIRS 5k party :P
20:22:29  <andythenorth> but we’re late
20:22:36  <andythenorth> r5641
20:29:12  <supermop>
20:29:29  <supermop> for some reason, nmlc complains that line 214 has no :
20:29:34  <supermop> when it clearly does
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20:30:48  * andythenorth looks
20:31:02  <supermop> haven't changed that line since this morning when it worked fine
20:32:20  <andythenorth> something like that is usually an error elswhere, tripping up the parser
20:32:28  <andythenorth> I am checking the lines before
20:33:20  <andythenorth> can’t see anything there
20:33:50  <supermop> YEAH
20:33:55  <supermop> its weird
20:35:09  <supermop> i deleted all those livestock trolley truck strings bc they are not used yet, and it gives the error for the last diesel livestock truck
20:36:39  <supermop> maybe its the following // comment?
20:36:46  <supermop> are comments not allowed?
20:37:25  <Alberth> try # for comment
20:37:33  <supermop> deleted all comments and it worked
20:37:54  <Alberth>  // is not a comment at least
20:40:14  <Alberth> hmm, I am not even sure it has comment at all
20:41:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the first few lines of that  file look like comments to me
20:49:29  <supermop> yeah i forgot and used // instead of #
20:51:54  <Alberth> always so nice if different files of the same program use different syntax :p
20:53:49  <andythenorth> that never trips me up, ever :P
20:53:52  <andythenorth> except sometimes
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20:56:16  <andythenorth> also
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21:20:40  <supermop> bellows part of bendy bus looks too big
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21:24:15  <supermop>
21:24:26  <supermop> i guess its ok. looks stupid in corners
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21:33:00  <Wolf01> Looks nice
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21:40:54  <supermop> I think making the bendy part a separate segment of the vehicle might make corners better
21:52:06  <Eddi|zuHause> corners are tricky with small parts
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22:02:16  <supermop> what thinking of using prev curv cb bend the rear part
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