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00:00:08 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 00:00:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 00:01:21 *** debdog has joined #openttd 00:06:54 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 00:06:57 <Wolf01> 'night 00:07:00 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:07:24 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 00:28:02 <_dp_> how did andy miss this one https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6297 00:45:46 *** glx has quit IRC 00:54:10 *** debdog has quit IRC 00:54:33 *** debdog has joined #openttd 01:43:51 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 04:27:10 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 04:27:53 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 04:37:36 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 04:38:18 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 05:46:16 *** Cubey has quit IRC 06:09:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:15:25 <andythenorth> o/ 06:24:00 *** Smedles has quit IRC 06:37:16 *** debdog has quit IRC 06:40:01 *** debdog has joined #openttd 07:09:54 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 07:11:54 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:11:56 <crem> \o 07:18:36 *** Thanark has quit IRC 07:30:13 *** debdog has quit IRC 07:33:11 *** debdog has joined #openttd 07:59:06 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 07:59:42 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 08:01:02 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 08:01:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:01:36 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 08:17:49 *** orudge has quit IRC 08:21:31 *** orudge has joined #openttd 08:23:36 *** debdog has quit IRC 08:26:53 *** debdog has joined #openttd 08:31:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:34:44 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 08:53:09 <peter1138> hurr, people in the office talking about factorio 09:06:52 <andythenorth> such F 09:11:16 <peter1138> a whole capital F? 09:14:46 <andythenorth> apparently 09:15:34 <andythenorth> can we remove taking over comapnies? 09:15:39 <andythenorth> or companies even? 09:15:52 <andythenorth> it spawns a shitload of feature requests 09:16:32 <planetmaker> That would make it difficult to play jointly and build together 09:16:53 <andythenorth> apparently that is difficult :) 09:16:56 <andythenorth> already 09:33:10 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 09:36:45 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:37:46 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:38:09 <Wolf01> Moin 09:39:05 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 09:39:52 <andythenorth> lo 09:44:34 <andythenorth> closed 15 more FS 09:45:02 <andythenorth> Wolf01: maybe we should try applying some patches? o_O 09:45:26 <andythenorth> ach we’d have to test MP desyncs and crap though 09:45:34 <Wolf01> Yes, but they need code review 09:45:38 * andythenorth has no idea how to do that 09:45:39 <Wolf01> Are you able to do it? 09:45:45 <andythenorth> code review? Not a chance 09:46:05 <andythenorth> patchpack, testing cluster, chaos monkey 09:46:13 <andythenorth> apply every patch, run it for 5 days 09:46:18 <andythenorth> if stats say it works, ship it 09:48:23 <Wolf01> Can you make a list of patches? 09:48:54 <andythenorth> Flyspray needs tags :P 09:49:11 <andythenorth> I could use the priorities as a hack 09:51:41 <Wolf01> Add more states and use those 09:51:49 <Wolf01> "in review" 09:52:13 <andythenorth> I’ll just make them ‘flash’ for now 09:52:18 <andythenorth> there aren’t many interesting ones 09:53:48 <Wolf01> There isn't a column for priority in the list (but you can add it), and with status you could show a little of movement to people 09:55:41 <Wolf01> I should identify what I'm good for, and then apply all myself to it 09:57:14 <Wolf01> I know I'm good at prototyping, not so useful if I want stuff merged in trunk, I'm like a designer which can only make sketches 09:57:59 <Wolf01> So I can't review the code too :/ 09:57:59 <andythenorth> Wolf01: actually I just scanned the patches https://bugs.openttd.org/?do=index&project=1&type%5B0%5D=4&sev%5B0%5D=&pri%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=open&percent%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D= 09:58:25 <andythenorth> either (1) they’re a bad idea or (2) they’re things I don’t understand or (3) they’ve already been reviewed and failed, and never developed further 09:58:53 <andythenorth> this is the only one that I thought looked interesting and not a bad idea https://bugs.openttd.org/task/385 09:59:34 <Wolf01> Code smells 10:00:38 <Wolf01> For example the switch should be put in new lines, even if there's only one instruction 10:01:07 <Wolf01> Missing braces on ifs 10:01:13 <Wolf01> That's my review 10:01:15 <Wolf01> :P 10:01:23 <andythenorth> close it 10:01:37 * andythenorth thinks now to close a lot of patch FS 10:03:26 <Wolf01> Also the switch is useless, just use v->type in the counter and handle 2 special cases 10:04:03 <Wolf01> Magic numbers 10:04:08 <andythenorth> reject 10:05:06 <Wolf01> Maybe it was aligned to r7059 standards, but not with the current 10:05:40 <Wolf01> Those tabs in english.txt 10:11:57 <LordAro> i'd close any patches that are >5 years old 10:12:21 <LordAro> (that haven't been updated, might be worth checking forums) 10:12:51 <LordAro> alternaticely, for 385, doesn't look too complicated, rewrite it? 10:13:17 <Wolf01> That was my thought 10:28:39 <_dp_> bug/feature with outdated patch is still no worse than one without a patch :p 10:29:44 <peter1138> moo 10:29:57 <_dp_> andythenorth, found one more bug for you to close: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6297 10:30:02 <peter1138> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGK1dr-Ql0w 10:35:42 <andythenorth> LordAro: I’m +1 to closing >5 years old 10:35:49 <andythenorth> or do you have edit rights LordAro ? o_O 10:36:57 <andythenorth> _dp_: closed it 10:36:58 <andythenorth> thanks 10:47:26 *** crem has quit IRC 10:47:52 <Wolf01> Could I add a patch to fs? 10:47:54 <Wolf01> :D 10:50:21 <LordAro> andythenorth: alas, i do not 10:50:30 <LordAro> despite my best efforts over the years 10:51:04 <LordAro> andythenorth: also, i have actual work to do :p 10:56:13 <peter1138> hmm, so should i get a mikrotik or ubiquiti ap 10:57:03 <LordAro> yes. 10:57:45 <peter1138> heh 10:59:01 *** mescalito has quit IRC 11:04:15 <Wolf01> https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/751d35041fc39a86d944b38e13e32650 I did right? 11:05:41 <peter1138> ooh typo 11:06:08 <Wolf01> STATIOV! 11:06:28 <LordAro> STATIOV! 11:09:15 <peter1138> COVFEFE 11:10:53 <Wolf01> https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/b96ba5a80b74bcdef139d4bd892fb91a also 11:10:58 <andythenorth> there are a few other typo patches in the queue Wolf01 :) 11:11:01 <andythenorth> you could bundle them 11:12:04 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6550 11:12:29 <Wolf01> Yes 11:13:13 <andythenorth> actually that was all 11:13:19 <andythenorth> I thought there were more 11:13:26 <LordAro> Wolf01: texteditor files should, technically, go in your global ignores rather than the project 11:14:17 <LordAro> Wolf01: but you also forgot the svn:ignore addition :p 11:14:33 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:14:44 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:15:02 <andythenorth> there’s also a string removal list https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4789 11:15:12 <Wolf01> I know, but I don't have the .svn file 11:15:31 <LordAro> Wolf01: doesn't go in there anyway ;) 11:15:37 <LordAro> (yay propset) 11:15:50 <peter1138> smelly svn 11:16:12 <Wolf01> I can do that with the trunk checkout 11:16:51 <Wolf01> My local working copy is git 11:17:16 <Wolf01> BTW.. if only there was a place to set that in the IDE 11:19:25 <LordAro> i'd imagine there's a gitconfig file somewhere 11:19:39 <Wolf01> https://github.com/github/gitignore/blob/master/VisualStudio.gitignore 11:20:08 <Wolf01> There's an entire template for ingoring VS shit 11:20:18 * peter1138 loads up openttd into vs code just for... no reason 11:21:03 <LordAro> * peter1138 screams and closes it again 11:21:25 <peter1138> needs vim key bindings :p 11:21:39 <Wolf01> Ha! I should "opt-out" from this functionality by changing a registry key 11:21:39 <LordAro> i believe there's a plugin 11:21:55 <peter1138> oh yes there is 11:22:01 <peter1138> *installs* 11:23:51 <Wolf01> I can't understand why they used the project folder and not the documents folder to keep these files, maybe to help sharing the IDE settings with the group, but I would have liked more an import/export for that 11:24:51 <andythenorth> 566 FS issues 11:24:59 <andythenorth> less than 840 eh? 11:25:41 <LordAro> 66 to go 11:26:04 *** debdog has quit IRC 11:30:13 <Wolf01> Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio.0_Config\FeatureFlags\Solution\WorkingFolders\LegacySUOMode <- easy to find 11:31:34 *** debdog has joined #openttd 11:32:59 <Wolf01> BTW, LordAro: since there's already projects/*.suo in .gitignore, it's the same of .vs, as they moved the IDE config from a single file to a folder 11:35:01 <LordAro> Wolf01: oh indeed 11:35:51 <Wolf01> And svn alreadi has .vs ignored 11:35:54 <LordAro> just my personal preference for ignore files is that they should only contain files generated by the project, not fikes generated by the text editor/environment 11:35:56 <Wolf01> *already 11:36:25 <Wolf01> I just checked, so it's missing on .gitignore and .hgignore 11:36:45 <LordAro> fair nuff :) 11:37:53 <Wolf01> I'll submit both patches to fs, maybe I'll change the name of the ignores... maybe not 11:39:22 <Wolf01> What category is that? Build system? 11:39:25 <Wolf01> Core? 11:39:34 <andythenorth> dunno :) 11:39:43 <andythenorth> then you’ll need to find someone with commit rights ;) 11:39:48 <andythenorth> https://pastebin.com/raw/TiYet4R6 11:39:54 <LordAro> probably build system 11:40:07 <LordAro> @seen Yexo 11:40:07 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 37 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 23 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet 11:40:10 <LordAro> F 11:41:58 <Wolf01> He is here... maybe 11:47:48 <andythenorth> nah long gone :) 11:51:06 <LordAro> ottdc bouncer 11:52:49 <LordAro> i have to say, if there's one thing i think that could improve the patch/trunk/deadness situation, it's more people with commit access 11:53:18 <andythenorth> the ratio of ‘people with access / people committing in last 4 years’ is not good :) 11:56:21 *** crem has joined #openttd 11:56:34 <Wolf01> LordAro: I tried to look how to niceli disable the .vs folder, and I concluded that if I want to use different IDE settings for different project I should ignore the .vs folder from the CVS 11:56:50 <Wolf01> *nicely.. what do I have against y today? 11:58:51 <Wolf01> I added the task, your decision to apply the patch :P 11:59:33 <Wolf01> andythenorth! Two more tasks for you to review :D 11:59:42 <andythenorth> thanks 12:00:06 <andythenorth> needs a code review ;) 12:00:11 <Wolf01> Totally 12:00:22 <Wolf01> I could do it 12:00:26 <Wolf01> ...Passed! 12:01:18 <FLHerne> More active people with commit access, then 12:01:36 <andythenorth> we need to not rely on frosch :) 12:01:40 <andythenorth> for fairness 12:01:59 <Wolf01> We rely on frosch, peter, LA, TB 12:02:05 <Wolf01> Maybe RB too 12:02:13 <peter1138> hmm? 12:02:46 <andythenorth> path reviews ;) 12:02:50 <andythenorth> or patch reviews 12:02:51 <andythenorth> either 12:02:52 <andythenorth> both 12:03:45 <Wolf01> Also alberth 12:03:46 <peter1138> last time i committed i fucked it all up 12:03:55 <andythenorth> standard for me 12:04:16 <andythenorth> how badly wrong can it go? :P 12:04:25 <peter1138> 13:04:18 up 843 days 12:04:27 <andythenorth> we don’t actually have paying customers :P 12:04:28 <peter1138> ought to reboot that one 12:04:32 <LordAro> me? i've hardly been active at all in the last 4 years because of uni 12:04:33 <peter1138> "how badly wrong can it go?" 12:04:47 <peter1138> i'm not active cos i'm lazy 12:04:48 <LordAro> * peter1138 timed out 12:04:54 <peter1138> also i'm actually active in the right way 12:04:59 <peter1138> on the bike :p 12:05:07 <Wolf01> Unless you can't revert changes, it isn't too bad :P 12:05:14 <LordAro> ^ 12:05:17 <LordAro> x2 12:05:18 <peter1138> LordAro, I'm doing a 200km audax on Saturday. For "fun". 12:05:34 <LordAro> peter1138: i'm doing a 100km on sunday :) 12:05:42 <LordAro> noice tho 12:05:49 <Wolf01> I'm doing nothing on always 12:07:19 <Wolf01> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=76862 <- 12:07:41 <peter1138> LordAro, nice :D 12:10:43 * andythenorth should do some exercise bike 12:10:45 <andythenorth> not 200km 12:13:22 <LordAro> why not? :D 12:13:35 * LordAro would probably die if he tried 200km 12:13:46 * LordAro will probably die when trying 100km 12:14:08 <LordAro> did 43miles a couple of months ago 12:14:11 <LordAro> but... 12:14:24 <peter1138> nah i see you've done a 4... 12:15:36 <Wolf01> How do I install ottd on ubuntu? :D 12:15:46 <Wolf01> (not from apt, that's too easy) 12:16:00 <peter1138> download package, install? 12:16:08 <peter1138> i guess you might have icu issues 12:17:46 <LordAro> there's a thing that installs dependencies somewhere 12:18:34 <Wolf01> Ok, I'll install it and then update the files 12:19:12 <LordAro> ..update the files? 12:19:28 <LordAro> you shouldn't modify files under the control of a package manager 12:19:40 <peter1138> gdebi 12:19:41 <Wolf01> Oh ok 12:19:58 <LordAro> dpkg -i ottd.deb 12:20:03 <LordAro> apt-get install -f 12:20:06 <LordAro> dpkg -i ottd.deb 12:20:08 <LordAro> probably. 12:21:49 <Wolf01> Nice, I didn't know we had ascii-art openttd 12:22:41 <peter1138> sdl driver 12:23:13 <Wolf01> Also no x server 12:23:15 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/a/g5QPb 12:33:43 <LordAro> wat 12:35:35 <andythenorth> well played 12:35:40 <andythenorth> that’s a valid April fools 12:36:22 <Wolf01> Next year one 12:36:48 <Wolf01> If I only can close the game... 12:36:59 <Wolf01> It seem to get mouse input 12:37:25 <Wolf01> Ok, I closed the error popup 12:38:10 <Wolf01> Ok, disabling the selection with the mouse worked 12:38:36 <Wolf01> I should make a video 12:39:58 <Wolf01> Ahahah opened the content manager by mistake 12:40:25 <Wolf01> Fuck close it XD 12:44:43 <andythenorth> bbl 12:44:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:46:59 *** debdog has quit IRC 12:49:58 *** debdog has joined #openttd 12:50:47 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/a/g5QPb the 1.7.1 :P 12:51:54 <crem> If only the projection was not isometric but rectangular topdown, it would be playable! 12:52:07 <Wolf01> Sim city :D 12:53:17 <crem> Text mode building game would be awesome! Dwarf fortress it a bit too hardcore. Something like simcity would be perfect. Or ttd, yes. 12:53:48 <crem> Speaking of dwarf fortress.. 12:53:50 <crem> https://askubuntu.com/questions/938606/dwarf-fortress-starting-during-apt-get-upgrade 12:54:05 <Wolf01> Wat 12:55:24 <Wolf01> LOL 13:12:55 *** debdog has quit IRC 13:18:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:18:54 *** debdog has joined #openttd 13:22:13 <Wolf01> Good, I now have my bank account tied to paypal 13:22:23 <Wolf01> A bit late 13:22:35 <Wolf01> I needed it 3 days ago 13:25:42 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 13:27:33 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:39:25 *** debdog has quit IRC 13:42:29 *** debdog has joined #openttd 13:43:21 <peter1138> what are you buying me? 13:44:05 <Wolf01> Nothing, I don't buy even for me 13:46:41 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:46:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:46:45 <Alberth> o/ 13:46:50 <Wolf01> o/ 13:54:36 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:06:26 *** debdog has quit IRC 14:10:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:12:00 *** debdog has joined #openttd 14:13:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:20:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:54:19 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:15:57 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 15:21:05 <supermop> whats the opinion on buses out at outskirts of town and villages 15:21:29 <Alkel_U3> I use them 15:21:44 <supermop> i've been trying a few transfer station in the outer parts of town 15:22:43 <supermop> where a regular bus comes in from a village or outskirts and then has a transfer with a more frequent/larger bus or tram 15:22:56 <Flygon> I end up using Trams because the bus drivers end up getting lost as fuck. 15:23:07 <Alkel_U3> sometimes I don't build a train station in the vicinity of a vilage at all and just do this feeder service with a bus 15:23:37 <supermop> whereas before i would have run the less frequent bus all the way into the central stations, trying to slot it in amongst the trams or busses that make more regular trips 15:23:38 <Alkel_U3> like, the train stop is in the middle of nowhere 15:24:09 <supermop> or i would run the tram or large bus all the way out to the end of the route 15:24:35 <supermop> really need TaI and ViV 15:24:59 <Alkel_U3> oh, so that was the question. Well, due to jams sometimes I do that but only in very largecities 15:25:26 <supermop> otherwise every patch of land becomes so dense with passengers that anything other than biggest trams everywhere as often as possible wont work 15:27:12 <Alkel_U3> I usually play with TaI and daylength - what's ViV? 15:27:25 <supermop> villages is villages 15:27:48 <supermop> gamescript 15:27:54 <Alkel_U3> oooh, that looks nice 15:29:29 <supermop> i always build my networks backwards - now that the passenger services are all built out, i need to figure out how to run some freights through them 15:30:49 <Alkel_U3> I never figured a good way to mix freight and passangers without daylength of at least 10 15:31:22 <supermop> with viv and tai, you can keep up with lots of outlying villages and hamlets that just get an occasional bus service 15:32:03 <Alkel_U3> I can't wait to run a NG track through some :-) 15:32:27 <supermop> IH NG will never work if your villages is like swedish houses 15:32:53 <supermop> by month 2 1400 villagers are waiting for your 60 passenger train 15:33:16 <Alkel_U3> I haven't played with those - it's not visually appealing to me 15:33:45 <Alkel_U3> it especially doesn't fit well into the original graphics 15:34:19 <Alkel_U3> but I used to play with TTRS and yeah, that was like that 15:39:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:39:15 <supermop> TaI is pretty close in style to original graphics 15:39:49 <supermop> and the lower passenger number is nice for certain styles of play 15:43:27 <Alkel_U3> I like both of those features, yeah 15:44:58 <Alkel_U3> but I know someone who doesn't play with TaI solely becose he can't get over a house changing orientation when a nearby street is rebuilt :-) 15:45:06 <supermop> haha 15:45:14 <supermop> yeah that part could use some work 15:45:27 <supermop> i think pikka is done with it though 15:45:42 <Alkel_U3> looks like it, unfortunately 15:45:44 <Wolf01> Seems nice, lets merge it 15:46:08 <supermop> add reorienting houses to trunk, Wolf01 ? 15:46:56 <supermop> brb have to go to job site and see what is completely messed up today 15:47:57 *** Mole[m] has joined #openttd 15:48:02 *** Mole[m] has left #openttd 15:54:35 <__ln___> greetings from czechoslovakia 15:55:53 <Wolf01> o/ 15:56:42 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:00:57 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:04:15 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:07:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:13:32 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:13:32 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:17:28 <Wolf01> Quak 16:19:00 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 16:20:09 <frosch123> moo 16:20:12 <andythenorth> baa 16:20:33 <frosch123> more steel? 16:24:49 *** Lejving__ is now known as Lejving 16:28:46 <frosch123> looks like i need a third reactor :o 16:29:54 *** Progman has quit IRC 16:32:41 <frosch123> yay, fast enough, built it when reactor temperature had dropped to 750 16:33:23 <V453000> =D 16:34:02 <frosch123> the electric grid doesn't tell you anything about the reactor load, if you ship hot steam to outposts 16:34:11 <frosch123> you have to monitor the reactor temperature 16:34:27 <frosch123> or it all breaks down 16:49:44 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:52:19 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:59:08 *** Alberth has quit IRC 17:01:21 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 17:01:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 17:03:43 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 17:12:50 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 17:14:32 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:14:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:20:32 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 17:20:46 <andythenorth> more deleting I think 17:21:04 <andythenorth> so how did all these people get commit rights? o_O https://pastebin.com/raw/TiYet4R6 17:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln___> greetings from czechoslovakia <- dangit, he took a time machine to 25 years in the past 17:21:10 <andythenorth> and who else could have commit rights? o-O 17:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that was before tt was invented 17:21:28 * andythenorth does *not* want commit rights 17:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause> svn log? 17:23:56 <LordAro> andythenorth: "Wolfolo" 17:28:55 <Wolf01> Who? 17:37:28 <andythenorth> bbl 17:37:30 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:41:45 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:03:16 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:11:14 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> for some reason "Wolfolo" reminds me of age of empires 18:14:47 <Wolf01> That's wololo 18:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly 18:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> just a single letter difference 18:17:48 <V453000> gg 18:18:16 <andythenorth> lo V453000 18:18:56 <andythenorth> is it beer time? 18:18:58 <V453000> hi :) 18:19:06 <V453000> ish 18:19:34 <Wolf01> You should look for __ln___ 18:20:16 <andythenorth> beer is not cold 18:20:18 <andythenorth> error 18:20:23 <andythenorth> wine instead 18:24:02 <frosch123> LordAro: i guess multi-byte constants are find 18:24:05 <frosch123> *fine 18:24:21 <frosch123> they are used in so many places, we would notice immediately if behaviour changes 18:24:29 <frosch123> like not being able to load the introame 18:24:47 <andythenorth> we should persuade someone to write tests :P 18:25:31 <LordAro> frosch123: yeah 18:25:38 <LordAro> also what andythenorth said :p 18:25:43 <andythenorth> jenkins -> nightly build -> client-server cluster -> admin port -> GS + AI game 18:25:46 <andythenorth> logged 18:25:56 <andythenorth> detecting actual failures would be hard though 18:25:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: there was an idea to build a savegame archive 18:26:04 <Wolf01> OTTD would benefit a lot of some refactoring and modularity 18:26:06 <frosch123> with samegames for each savegame version 18:26:09 <andythenorth> running tests is sometimes easier than making sense of the tests 18:26:27 <frosch123> and automatic loading-resaving with every new version 18:26:41 <andythenorth> we can script enough stuff that we could chaos-monkey or soak test things 18:27:07 <andythenorth> https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Monkey_Lives.txt 18:27:55 <andythenorth> the nice thing: it wouldn’t need any code review :P 18:28:19 <andythenorth> (as a project for new developers) 18:28:29 <Wolf01> I'm sure that simple unit tests will detect a lot of bugs 18:29:01 <Wolf01> Too bad I wasn't able to perform even a simple test 18:29:04 <andythenorth> we found bugs yesterday at work just from writing tests 18:29:12 <Wolf01> Many globals 18:29:20 <andythenorth> writing tests means reading code -> found errors 18:29:34 <frosch123> the paste.o.o python script fails because it does not accept the certificate 18:30:28 <frosch123> Wolf01: we have some integration tests 18:31:02 <frosch123> i wouldn't know how to apply unit tests to ottd 18:31:17 <frosch123> unit tests kind of assume object oriented code, which we don't have 18:31:26 <Wolf01> I do, but OTTD ned extensive refactoring 18:31:29 <Wolf01> *need 18:31:53 <Wolf01> Yes, it should be OO 18:32:35 <frosch123> LordAro: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p3rl9ovhi <- anyway, if we would remove multibyte constants, i would do it like that 18:33:02 <frosch123> but i do not feel like writing some magic to replace all the usages 18:33:16 <frosch123> (diff likely is broken, i c&p it via clipboard :p) 18:34:37 <_dp_> not just oo, it has to be coded with tests in mind 18:34:45 <_dp_> like singletons are oo too 18:35:30 <frosch123> "singleton" is a fancy name for "global variable" 18:37:48 <_dp_> as any other static stuff 18:40:09 <_dp_> but testable code is far deeper topic than just globals 18:40:41 <andythenorth> unit test <-> integration test <-> functional test 18:40:49 <andythenorth> with some of the boundaries blurred 18:41:01 <andythenorth> unit tests for ottd…surely not? o_O 18:41:15 <frosch123> "functional test" is "manual test"? 18:41:19 <LordAro> frosch123: i can't look at paste because of the cert error :< 18:41:22 <andythenorth> or scripted frosch123 18:41:43 <andythenorth> manual first though 18:41:53 <andythenorth> testing things only humans can understand, initially 18:42:54 <andythenorth> in our case the distinction of integration test and functional test is probably boring semantics 18:44:04 <frosch123> LordAro: 0003 looks really weird to me 18:46:24 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:47:55 <andythenorth> Wolf01: worth testing? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6593 18:49:07 <Wolf01> Every bug might need to be tested 18:49:29 <LordAro> frosch123: it does, but apparently otherwise memset gets passed a long, or somthing, and it complains about the range of values you're passing it 18:49:43 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I’m picking off the ones that look easy to repro :) 18:49:56 <frosch123> + memset(statspec->platforms + statspec->lengths, 0, (length - statspec->lengths) * sizeof(*statspec->platforms)); <- LordAro: would that also silence it? 18:49:59 <andythenorth> ‘crash after leaving game running for hours’ with no assertion line….boring :P 18:50:27 <andythenorth> we’re not increasing number of grfs, right? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5117 18:50:33 <frosch123> i don't like the (byte) cast since it makes the code kind of wrong. otoh adding a sizeof() would make it more correct 18:50:52 <LordAro> frosch123: not sure without my desktop, it was difficult to get the warning to go away 18:51:01 <LordAro> will be back there in an hour or so 18:51:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: it was slightly increased in 1.7 18:51:25 <andythenorth> it’s not a current goal…? (heading for closure...) 18:52:13 <frosch123> i only know my goals :p 18:54:17 <LordAro> frosch123: alternatively, maybe MemSetT should be used 18:54:36 <frosch123> also good 18:55:02 <LordAro> istr trying that to no effect 18:55:16 <frosch123> /* We expect NULL being 0 here, but C99 guarantees that. */ <- he, i usually cite c++98 18:55:27 *** Gja has quit IRC 18:55:36 <LordAro> ha 19:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... i built office spaces, and suddenly most of my industries are abandoned 19:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess all the overqualified workers ran away 19:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ... at least my traffic problems are less now :p 19:07:26 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:12:26 <supermop> would be interesting to see a passengers vs transported for the whole map 19:12:45 <supermop> to see roughly how much of the regional population has access to transit 19:19:04 *** Gja has joined #openttd 19:22:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:28:42 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:38:40 *** debdog has quit IRC 19:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> 129999 inhabitants... how... odd... 19:40:46 *** debdog has joined #openttd 19:47:22 <frosch123> maybe you missed yourself when counting? 19:47:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:08:56 <planetmaker> supermop, but those statistics are roughly available :) Towns have a population which is announced. And you can check your transported amount 20:09:18 <supermop> only for each town one at a time 20:09:37 <planetmaker> supermop, if memory serves me well, on a map with like 1M inhabitants, we reached on a coop server once like 200.000 pax transported 20:09:47 <planetmaker> (it was a one-town map) 20:10:20 <supermop> well to get 100% every house would need to be covered by at least two stations 20:11:08 <supermop> but i meant more as a rough measure of how many people are living out in the hinterlands with no connection to the world, at a glance 20:12:02 <planetmaker> https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Hall_of_Fame <--- at the bottom we have 2 population games... but yeah... probably less than 10% transported. 20:12:09 <planetmaker> How do you define "no connection"? 20:12:24 <_dp_> supermop, citymania client has transported cargo stats and world population in towns list 20:12:37 <_dp_> last one mb vanilla tho 20:13:17 <supermop> something like transported vs passengers produced, but also total population of towns without any connection 20:13:36 *** orudge` has quit IRC 20:13:41 <supermop> measure by towns with no rating, or no passengers transported 20:13:44 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 20:13:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 20:14:34 <supermop> i guess you could more exotically try to count every house that is not within the catchment area of a station with passenger service 20:14:40 <supermop> but that sounds really hard 20:16:21 <_dp_> supermop, you can estimate that from transported amount since house production is a % of its population on average 20:16:33 <_dp_> about 50% per month iir 20:18:08 <_dp_> so world population * 50% is about equal to amount of passengers produced by all towns 20:18:23 <andythenorth> so eh, a developer I work with is core Plone contributor. Plone had same issue of less and less core developers => less fun being one of the ones left 20:18:24 <_dp_> if it's 50% that is, don't rly remember exact % 20:18:40 <andythenorth> Plone opened up commit rights to a ~anyone who signed a contributor agreement 20:18:51 <andythenorth> and they have to use pull requests 20:18:59 <andythenorth> and bad commit choices = removal of rights 20:20:15 <andythenorth> they don’t mention it on this page, but apparently that’s how it works :P 20:20:17 <andythenorth> https://docs.plone.org/develop/coredev/docs/agreement.html 20:21:46 <andythenorth> the goal isn’t so much ‘let all the patches in’ as ‘make it more fun to be a developer’ 20:21:56 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 20:22:07 <_dp_> I coded for Plone on my first work, like 10 years ago, got so fed up with it that never even considered using Plone again xD 20:22:29 <andythenorth> yes 20:22:32 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:22:34 <_dp_> tho most of it was not Plone fault but that we tried to use it for stuff it clearly wasn't designed for 20:22:46 * andythenorth is playing a 10 year game called ‘get out of Plone' 20:22:52 <andythenorth> we built commercial products in it 20:22:58 <andythenorth> in it / on it :P 20:23:16 <_dp_> somewhere around it xD 20:23:31 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:23:31 <andythenorth> we circumvent most of it 20:23:40 <andythenorth> but kept all of the boilerplate framework and overhead 20:23:46 <andythenorth> worst of all possible worlds :) 20:24:34 <andythenorth> functional tests for everything, and rewrite one piece at a time :P 20:24:44 <andythenorth> and one day…no more plone 20:24:45 *** Smedles has quit IRC 20:27:30 <Wolf01> It seem like we did with the CMS, started to rewrite all our classes to align them to PSR, noticed they were almost like symfony2 ones, started to use those ones, now the CMS is build on symfony2 20:27:38 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:34:59 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 20:38:14 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:42:01 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:42:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:48:49 <Wolf01> Too much lag to play, better go full netflix, also no chill 20:52:41 <LordAro> andythenorth: i've heard it can work quite well 20:52:52 <LordAro> you can always revert changes, after all 20:54:38 <andythenorth> yarp 20:54:58 <andythenorth> also, don’t many eyes make shallow bugs? :P 20:55:04 <andythenorth> we have nightly, RC, release 20:55:10 <andythenorth> it’s a pretty careful process 21:05:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:07:42 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 21:15:08 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:15:12 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 21:29:31 *** Thanark has joined #openttd 21:31:42 *** mescalito has quit IRC 21:36:25 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:47:09 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 21:47:42 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 21:48:01 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 22:00:14 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 22:00:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:18:10 *** Marenz has joined #openttd 22:18:15 <Marenz> Greetings 22:18:23 <Marenz> I just started playing this game the first time 22:19:09 <Marenz> Have some bus system up and running. However, I discovered that one of my stations says "Acccepts: Nothing" (translated, probably not literally that), where as the other stations say "Accepts: Passengers" 22:19:37 <Marenz> Any idea why it wouldn't accept anything? 22:21:27 <Marenz> I also noticed that the bus driving to it seems to never unload its passengers 22:26:56 <LordAro> Marenz: screenshot? 22:27:02 <Wolf01> No houses in the catchement area? 22:28:33 <Marenz> LordAro: http://imgur.com/a/LzCvA 22:29:15 <Marenz> Frankenmünster says "Nimmt an: Nichts" (accepts nothing) where as another station Flensdorf says "Nimmt an: Passagiere" (accepts passengers) 22:29:19 <LordAro> yeah, looks like nothing in the catchment area 22:29:37 <LordAro> some houses only accept "half" a passenger, which rounds down 22:29:47 <Marenz> oh I see 22:30:17 <LordAro> there's an option when you place stations to see catchment area, and what they accept 22:30:38 <Marenz> Does it make sense to have buses drive to multiple stations? 22:30:45 <LordAro> probably 22:31:45 <LordAro> it's ultimately up to you :p 22:31:55 <LordAro> this game is not exactly "hard" 22:53:27 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:05:47 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 23:09:11 *** Laedek has quit IRC 23:09:28 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 23:58:14 *** Marenz has quit IRC