Log for #openttd on 23rd August 2017:
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07:00:28  <andythenorth> o/
07:02:10  <peter1138> o\
07:05:11  <crem> \o
07:05:38  <Alkel_U3> o\
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07:07:44  <andythenorth> close? o_O
07:13:16  <LordAro> heh, i'm working on bug 5959 at work
07:13:18  <LordAro> close
07:15:10  <andythenorth> numbers
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07:51:11  <crem> Are "engineering supplies" humans? :) Is it a supply of engineers? Hm, then why do they only arrive through port and what happens with old ones..
07:51:38  <crem> is there similar for 2.0?
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07:54:06  <V453000> haha
07:54:14  <V453000> 3.0? :P
07:54:39  <crem> 3.0? Is it what I had to use?
07:55:01  <V453000> had to is a strong statement
07:55:39  <crem> But it should be playable?
07:57:02  <V453000> sure
07:57:11  <V453000> if andy says it's amazing on top :)
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08:00:49  <andythenorth> crem:
08:01:04  <andythenorth> possible the charts don’t show there in some browsers
08:01:25  <crem> Yep, just found that. Not that hairy as :)
08:02:03  <andythenorth> easier on the eye :)
08:03:06  <crem> buuuuuuuut.. where is wood, for example? No more wood?
08:05:07  <andythenorth> depends on the economy
08:05:22  <andythenorth> here’s the ones with wood ;)
08:05:57  <andythenorth> Temperate Basic and Arctic Basic are the best economies IMHO
08:06:23  <andythenorth> Extreme is…dumb :P
08:07:07  <crem> 99% of all time I played temperate (in raw ttd/openttd), it's somehow the most visually appealing.
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08:07:40  <andythenorth> you can use FIRS economies in any climate of your choice btw
08:08:41  <crem> And toyland was the easy way to cause eyes to fall out. :)
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08:17:56  <V453000> extreme is all the shit on one big pile?
08:18:13  <V453000> ye
08:21:14  <crem> And more than that, it seems. Like "Ammonia plant"
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08:26:19  <crem> What's the typical "environment" on multiplayer servers, is it competitive or cooperative? Do people just play independently on one map because it's fun, or there's competition and they try to reduce each other's profit?
08:28:33  <V453000> well most common is the most basic, which is competitive. People join, build something really horrible, talk to others how their vehicles are crashing better than the other's and how that guy is lucky because his coal mine is producing 10t more and that's why he has 100 trains, lucky bastard.
08:29:02  <V453000> but cooperation iz best
08:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't play any multiplayer, but from what i have seen, it's mostly people playing like they normally do, just that other people happen to play at the same time (and sometimes get in the way)
08:34:51  <_dp_> crem,  btpro, citymania, n-ice - competitive, openttdcoop - cooperative, others just random
08:38:26  <_dp_> crem, and competition is usually by trying to do better rather than undermine competitors
08:38:35  <_dp_> crem, latter doesn't rly work well in openttd
08:39:29  <crem> Ok, will play singleplayer then, I guess.
08:40:14  <_dp_> interesting conclusion xD
08:40:52  <_dp_> imo sp is only better if you want to play same game for long time (irl)
08:41:21  * andythenorth would play more if there was a quick way to configure games that fit in my evening
08:41:24  <andythenorth> in MP
08:42:09  <andythenorth> basically, kids go to bed at 8pm, and I go to bed at 10pm :P
08:42:32  <Alkel_U3> there's the infrastructure sharing patch for more interesting coop play but the payment is broken if cargo transfers between multiple companies. Meaning that only the company making the last leg of the trip gets all the money from it and it doesn't seem there's a good way to solve that
08:42:55  <andythenorth> coop same company works fine
08:43:06  <Alkel_U3> but I had fun once playing with someone on same company
08:43:13  <_dp_> andythenorth, there are some short goal servers, why not play on them?
08:43:29  <andythenorth> never explored them
08:43:41  <_dp_> I usually don't play for more than an hour
08:43:47  <andythenorth> how would I get op on them?
08:43:53  <andythenorth> or I could make friends with server admins
08:44:07  <V453000> XD
08:44:12  <Alkel_U3> I used to play on luukland, some of those were 3 h long
08:44:12  <V453000> first thing he cares about
08:44:13  <V453000> POWER
08:45:02  <_dp_> andythenorth, what do you even need op for?
08:45:12  <Alkel_U3> to have op :-)
08:46:02  <_dp_> I usually don't mind giving op for any sane person that's familiar with our servers
08:46:50  <andythenorth> _dp_: how do I restart the game without op? o_O
08:47:00  <_dp_> andythenorth, on citymania there is !restart command
08:47:14  <_dp_> andythenorth, you have to be alone on server though
08:47:34  <_dp_> andythenorth, but that's usually not an issue xD
08:47:41  <andythenorth> V453000: now I want to make a King Of The Hill GS
08:47:49  <andythenorth> dunno what it does, but your aim is moar POWER
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08:49:25  <_dp_> Alkel_U3, btw, citymania is successor of luukland, we still have those 3h servers
08:49:38  <_dp_> Alkel_U3, but also many even shorter goal ones
08:50:10  <andythenorth> do they just restart on a timetable?
08:50:39  <_dp_> andythenorth, no, I think I switched them all to free runs
08:50:53  <andythenorth> ok, biab
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08:55:07  <Wolf01> o/
08:55:22  <crem> \o
08:55:56  <_dp_> o/
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09:14:30  <peter1138> everybody knows, everybody knows, that's how it goes, everybody NOOO!
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09:19:09  <Alkel_U3> _dp_: I already found out about citymania but just wasn't very compelled to play that kind of game lately
09:19:38  <Alkel_U3> I'm still keeping it in mind for when I feel the urge to play something like that again :-)
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09:31:43  <Wolf01> o/
09:32:50  <Wolf01> andythenorth: I don't know how to solve the config bugs, the state machine is broken because of shared features
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09:40:50  <andythenorth> Wolf01: awesome sauce :)
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10:03:59  <andythenorth> Wolf01: patch to test? o_O
10:04:07  * andythenorth working right now, so can’t :)
10:04:21  <andythenorth> also I don’t have a numeric keypad :P
10:06:39  <Wolf01> It works fine on windows
10:07:32  <Wolf01> With disabled numlock it does home, end, left, right... page up/dn and up/dn can't work there
10:08:29  <andythenorth> with patch, or without? o_O
10:08:36  <Wolf01> Without, 1.7.1
10:12:48  * andythenorth can’t test
10:14:12  <Wolf01> ahahahah
10:14:47  <andythenorth> hmm, how does this relate to 5504?;a=commit;h=956c99e46cd8355f57667e41488c811cb987715b
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10:16:22  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think that could have made the bug
10:16:35  <Wolf01> Check if it was fixed later
10:17:03  <Wolf01> Maybe on a 2013+ commit instead of a 2008 one
10:18:23  <andythenorth> can’t find any
10:18:31  <andythenorth> searched numlock
10:18:40  <andythenorth> and keypad
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11:44:40  <crem> top comment says to build road network from coal mines to transfer station. Why not directly rail from coal mines to power plant?
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11:45:26  <andythenorth> I build pax-pax in the two biggest, convenient cities
11:46:08  * andythenorth likes the idea of developing a mod where people take years to perfect their playing technique
11:46:27  <andythenorth> crem: which economy did you choose? o_O
11:46:30  <crem> I do like idea with transfer stations though.  Somehow I always aim to build realistic network rather than optimize for profit.
11:46:57  <andythenorth> the transfers are for consolidating from multiple nearby mines
11:47:04  <andythenorth> so you can run…big trains ;)
11:47:19  <crem> temperate basic. But actually I didn't play at all, went to bed yesterday after I managed to start it. And currently I'm at work, will try in the evening.
11:47:25  <Wolf01> crem: that's like to boost the delivering of coal, steel mill or power plant doesn't change much, but with steel mill you can get steel later in exchange
11:47:59  * andythenorth checks if temperate basic has fish cargo
11:48:21  <andythenorth> fish is a good base starting cargo
11:48:31  <andythenorth> it uses boats, so minimal infrastructure
11:48:43  <andythenorth> not high profit, but good steady income
11:48:48  <crem> Actually I probably will restart with arctic basic. And earliest year possible. Probably not 1850 though.
11:49:20  <andythenorth> fair
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11:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> mst vehicle sets start in 1920
11:52:25  <Eddi|zuHause> *most
11:55:27  <andythenorth> and before that, they’re mostly slow
11:55:31  * andythenorth starts around 1900
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12:06:33  <_dp_> andythenorth, it took years to perfect technique on our 3h cb servers :p
12:06:50  <_dp_> highscore was 70k solo on LL, now it's 130k
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12:11:40  <_dp_> coop cb jumped from 86k to 171k it seems
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13:46:07  <supermop_> YO
13:46:31  <andythenorth> lo supermop
13:46:37  <Alberth> o/
13:46:37  <supermop_> TRAMS
13:46:57  <Alberth> YOTRAMS
13:46:59  <supermop_> need the little industrial trains still
13:47:04  <supermop_> damn
13:47:41  <supermop_> i should have named the set YO TRAMS!
13:48:19  <Alberth> never too late for a rename :)
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13:52:21  <andythenorth> hi Alberth
13:55:53  <supermop_> i wonder why all my smoke is so far out front of my vehicles
13:58:07  <andythenorth> you need to position it
13:58:25  <supermop_> if i sandwich a tram between two trams of another set, it don't over lap them, so it's not like i have a wildly wrong interpretation of the tram offsets
13:58:25  <andythenorth> it’s a property or cb result, can’t remember which
13:58:38  <andythenorth> have you checked the offsets with ctrl-b?
13:58:58  <supermop_> no i should catch a tram accellerating and try that
13:59:05  <supermop_> also
13:59:24  <supermop_> all my articulated trams have their parts too close together
13:59:38  <supermop_> whereas my buses have the opposite issue
14:00:19  <supermop_> maybe i'll add invisible 1 length segments between
14:00:27  <supermop_> but the _ view looks good
14:03:53  <supermop_> hmm need to fix poles on unspooled
14:04:34  <supermop_>
14:06:05  <andythenorth> making newgrfs spawns to-do list items
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14:16:39  <supermop_> maybe i'll use the little 3 length tram as my dummy engine for tiny trains
14:17:36  <supermop_> now should i reuse the short truck beds as wagons, or steal some from andy
14:19:28  <supermop_> hmmm
14:20:05  <supermop_> i could reuse the antelope cars i drew for andy, but they are a bit too Foster-ish for this set
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14:22:30  <supermop_>
14:22:37  <supermop_> forgot that i made these
14:22:46  <supermop_> dont have a psd for them though
14:25:04  <Alberth> somewhat grey
14:26:57  <supermop_> that much CC blue and green together can make the spritesheet look muddy
14:27:15  <supermop_> but then it is way too bright when you chose certain CC
14:31:00  <supermop_> coding a couple EMUs sounds shockingly simple now as compared to a year ago
14:31:34  <andythenorth> supermop: doing a train set next?
14:31:41  <andythenorth> small acorns :P
14:31:55  <supermop_> i'd still rather see an Iron Crane roster
14:32:17  <andythenorth> I need to pick up IH again :P
14:32:23  <andythenorth> integer lengths :)
14:32:29  <andythenorth> redraw all the things
14:32:56  <supermop_> im wondering if i might use that emu though as a basis for one of the missing styles in my set though
14:33:04  <supermop_> without front gangway
14:33:24  <supermop_> need a 60s/70s ish style and a 80s ish
14:33:35  <supermop_> plus a 1890s ish
14:34:09  <supermop_> 1890s will probably be same as the 1920s but with open sides and platforms at ends
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16:03:24  <andythenorth> bbl
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16:41:31  <andythenorth> eh
16:48:50  <andythenorth> is cat?
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16:50:05  <andythenorth> is quak
16:50:15  <andythenorth> supermop_: well _I_ commented on your thread
16:50:50  <frosch123> hoi
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17:05:31  <andythenorth> much green
17:05:43  <andythenorth> looks like my loft
17:06:51  <frosch123> are they still built like that?
17:07:04  <frosch123> with hardly any vision on the track
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17:12:14  <andythenorth> mostly like this now
17:12:35  <andythenorth> the obscured vision design was partially due to labour relations
17:12:49  <andythenorth> it required two workers in the cab to see both sides
17:13:20  <andythenorth> it was a compromise that allowed railroads to introduce diesels without strikes from firemen and engineers
17:13:23  <andythenorth> allegedly
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17:14:45  <andythenorth> but given
17:14:50  <andythenorth> it might be an urban myth
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17:42:55  <crem> I've started in 1920 and none of trains/cars are available. Expected? :) Do I have to install some more gfx?..
17:43:32  <V453000> home :D I think it's time for TREES
17:43:36  <V453000> also it's wine o clock
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17:55:26  <supermop_> WINE NOT BEER HUH?
17:57:30  <V453000> out of beer :(
18:05:22  <supermop_> andythenorth: did you drive them about yet?
18:06:28  <supermop_> andythenorth: only some railroads had that labor issue
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18:07:49  <supermop_> that is only some were wary about the better visibility leading to staff reductions. I believe in the 40s and 50s those E units, like your sante fe were staffed by two drivers anyway
18:08:36  <supermop_> probably on a railroad by railroad basis, either based on their company rules or relations with labor
18:09:04  <supermop_> i don't think any union actually demanded poor visibility
18:09:16  <supermop_> but it may have assuaged fears
18:09:25  <Alberth> crem: what newgrf are you using?
18:09:50  <crem> OpenGFX, but I've already restarted from 1925
18:10:08  <Alberth> opengfx like default, so around 1950
18:10:22  <Alberth> a bit earlier, have look at the wiki
18:10:44  <Alberth> ie it's like default, only a little different
18:10:57  <supermop_> also i've heard some crews felt unsafe with less locomotive if front of them in case of a crash - some would drive theirs with cab at rear like in a steam locomotive
18:11:09  <supermop_> see "high short hood"
18:11:15  <supermop_>
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19:27:36  <supermop_> andythenorth: is there a need for parcel trams? do tramway trains cover it?
19:27:59  <supermop_> setting aside realism, is it more fun to have them
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19:28:39  <andythenorth> you need parcel trams
19:28:47  <andythenorth> for mail
19:28:57  <supermop_> mail tube
19:29:34  <supermop_>
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20:05:50  <andythenorth> V453000: compress this for BRIX
20:06:07  <andythenorth> badass snowplough
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20:11:19  <supermop_> very sage
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20:54:34  <Wolf01> andythenorth: a bit expensive, not like the real one but still a bit
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21:24:15  <Wolf01> andythenorth:
21:26:55  <andythenorth> such train
21:27:05  <andythenorth> Wolf01: seen any technic 2018 leak images?
21:27:19  <Wolf01> Just some gossip
21:27:29  <andythenorth> same here
21:27:31  <andythenorth> no facts :P
21:27:35  <Wolf01> Like a Mack flatbed truck
21:28:29  <andythenorth> pulls like a Mack truck
21:29:55  <supermop_> oops
21:30:17  <supermop_> last diesel tram, a 130 passenger DMU basically,
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21:30:30  <supermop_> costs 1.3 M won/year to run
21:30:41  <supermop_> (when driving)
21:31:01  <andythenorth> too cheap
21:31:08  <andythenorth> make it more
21:31:14  <supermop_> last articulated bus, which holds 96 passengers
21:31:25  <supermop_> costs 300,000 won/year
21:31:40  <supermop_> again, while driving
21:31:47  <andythenorth> automate costs :)
21:31:51  <andythenorth> poka-yoke
21:31:56  <andythenorth> autonomation
21:32:00  <supermop_> i tried to
21:32:28  <supermop_> cant do the math i wanted to do in a switch in nml
21:32:43  <supermop_> so i used a formular in spreadsheet
21:33:29  <andythenorth> reduce muda and mura
21:35:27  <supermop_> also: the cheapest to operate electric tram is more than twice the cost of the most expensive diesel bus
21:35:43  <supermop_> so i guess i can just halve one or double the other
21:36:27  <supermop_> thats for a capacity of 40 in the tram vs 96 in the bus
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21:38:46  * andythenorth lost in Toyota Production System wiki pages :P
21:38:55  * andythenorth should sleep
21:39:33  <andythenorth> bedtime
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23:52:13  <Wolf01> 'night
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