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Log for #openttd on 25th August 2017:
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00:02:36  <Wolf01> 'night
00:02:41  <peter1138> no idea
00:02:48  <peter1138> do it over again? what
00:02:53  <Wolf01> Eh?
00:02:59  <peter1138> exactly
00:03:01  <Wolf01> SYL
00:03:15  <Wolf01> BTW, 'night, this time for real
00:03:18  <Wolf01> ;)
00:03:18  <frosch123> eddi will figure it out
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00:03:44  <peter1138> strapping young lad
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00:04:35  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i won't do something when you see something
00:05:13  <peter1138> no idea
00:05:18  <peter1138> is someone dramaing?
00:05:26  <peter1138> wait, i remember
00:05:28  <peter1138> i don't care :D
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00:05:46  <Eddi|zuHause> no clue, i haven't really followed the forum
00:05:54  <peter1138> same
00:06:09  <SimYouLater> I might as well explain myself since NekoMaster was apparently online just this morning.
00:06:45  <SimYouLater> North American Track Set is on BaNaNaS. The "website" just links to Nekomaster's profile.
00:06:55  <SimYouLater> I can't find source code anywhere.
00:07:08  <SimYouLater> It's under GPL v2.
00:07:56  <SimYouLater> I am seriously annoyed that the very thing that got me into doing NewGRFs right might happen AGAIN.
00:08:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a seriously world-ending problem...
00:08:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i will continue not doing anything
00:10:36  <peter1138> yers
00:11:45  <SimYouLater> So sue me, it's not the end of the world. It's just important to me that history doesn't repeat because of a mistake.
00:12:31  <SimYouLater> I've even backed up the file itself; if I have to, I will extract the graphics, reverse engineer it and recode it from scratch.
00:12:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but give him like 3 business days to reply
00:13:01  <SimYouLater> i was only worried assuming you wouldn't.
00:13:12  <SimYouLater> You = the devs/admins/etc.
00:13:18  <peter1138> wouldn't what?
00:13:26  <SimYouLater> Not necessarily you specifically.
00:13:53  <SimYouLater> Wouldn't give him time to respond.
00:14:17  <SimYouLater> To be honest I never learned what happens in those cases in terms of waiting time.
00:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> dude, it's the middle of the night
00:14:28  <peter1138> mate
00:14:37  <peter1138> i worry about trump, nazis and brexit and shit like that
00:14:43  <SimYouLater> Evening here. Sorry if this troubles you.
00:14:44  <peter1138> stuff that actually matters
00:14:57  <peter1138> oh yeah, and what bike i should buy next
00:16:14  <SimYouLater> Look, it just really ticks me off that it might happen twice. Tbh I do have more important things I'm worrying about, this is just the one relevant here that gets my mind off even bigger stuff I'd rather not think about.
00:17:23  <SimYouLater> As for if it gets removed, at least this time I'm not too late to try and prevent it. I can take my time re-creating it, I just wanted to ensure I wouldn't need to go that far.
00:18:01  <SimYouLater> If it's that late for you, I'll head off to do other things.
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02:52:18  <gentz> hello
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06:36:35  <andythenorth> o/
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07:37:59  <V453000> ggggggggggggg
07:38:04  <V453000> GEOMETREEHUGS
07:57:49  <andythenorth> yo V453000
07:58:45  <V453000> yoyoyo
07:58:53  <V453000> trying to render tha shit
07:58:58  <V453000> python doing sssss
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09:13:15  <andythenorth> why don’t snow tiles have fences?
09:13:21  * andythenorth looks in map
09:13:25  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1955
09:13:37  <andythenorth> is it by design, or oversight? :)
09:15:15  <FLHerne> I assumed it was deliberate, because the fences are buried in snow or something
09:15:26  <andythenorth> it’s probably realistic eh
09:15:37  * andythenorth thinks it should be controlled by the railtype though
09:15:45  <V453000> OMFGOP AFDPSIGFUH REAL
09:15:49  <V453000> istic
09:16:10  <V453000> also fuck, can't access the part of blender I want easily ._.
09:17:36  <andythenorth> :P
09:17:56  <V453000> in many parts the documentation just isn't there
09:20:32  <V453000> ok this is apparently way too fucked up
09:20:37  <V453000> need to do manually ._.
09:20:48  <V453000> like what in the shit https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Py/Scripts/Cookbook/Code_snippets/Properties
09:21:00  <V453000> just to change some filename in a specific node :D
09:24:23  <andythenorth> aren’t fences controlled by this?
09:24:31  * andythenorth cba to make a railtype grf to test it really 
09:24:32  <andythenorth> https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=commit;h=13a726b18fbed58737d6b3ff417d07f5fdd3ecaa
09:32:34  * andythenorth closed 2 FS as ‘implemented’ :D
09:34:11  <LordAro> :O
09:35:59  <andythenorth> stuff added in 2010 :)
09:36:34  <andythenorth> @seen wolf01
09:36:34  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 33 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Wolf01> ;)
09:36:41  <andythenorth> @summon wolf01
09:36:51  <andythenorth> yeah, that summon feature’s still broken :P
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09:46:00  <peter1138> real
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09:48:02  <_3298> andy, i have one more bug report for your bonfire
09:48:04  <Wolf01> o/
09:49:11  <_3298> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6441 <- can be closed as "not a bug", i confirmed the guess in the comment
09:49:51  <andythenorth> _3298: can you comment on it? :)
09:49:54  <andythenorth> then I’ll close
09:50:01  <_3298> okay
09:50:02  <andythenorth> then there will be 421 FS left
09:50:13  <andythenorth> when I started it was 840 :P
09:50:17  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
09:50:20  <andythenorth> summon does work then
09:51:10  <Wolf01> Good, you are at 49.9%
09:53:18  <andythenorth> peter1138: cargo isn’t moved to station based on tiles covered, is it? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4309
09:53:25  * andythenorth might be smoking crack
09:53:29  <andythenorth> or that FS is
09:53:30  <andythenorth> :)
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09:56:55  <_3298> andy: comment posted, you can close it
09:57:58  <andythenorth> awesome
09:57:59  <FLHerne> andythenorth: AAUI, the report is asking for that behaviour
09:58:14  <andythenorth> FLHerne: yeah, I think that’s smoking crack :)
09:58:15  <FLHerne> (which currently doesn't exist, and would be pretty annoying)
09:58:32  <FLHerne> I mean, it would be consistent with the acceptance behaviour
09:58:39  <FLHerne> But I find that annoying too
09:59:26  <andythenorth> _3298: closed
09:59:37  <andythenorth> cheers
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10:13:59  <_3298> with the help of someone with commit access we could get rid of some easy bugs like https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6453
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10:14:29  * andythenorth closed https://bugs.openttd.org/task/2309
10:14:52  <andythenorth> _3298: have you applied the patch and verified it?
10:15:17  <andythenorth> oh there is no patch :P
10:15:18  <andythenorth> oops
10:15:43  <_3298> i made a patch and verified it
10:19:18  <andythenorth> stick it on the ticket?
10:19:24  <andythenorth> I’ll change it to ‘with patch”?
10:19:32  <_3298> one moment
10:21:56  <_3298> done
10:22:45  <andythenorth> updated FS thanks :)
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10:55:39  <Wolf01> Dafuq is wrong with game settings?
10:56:22  <Wolf01> SE reloads _settings_newgame every time I do something with landgen and I commented the function calls
10:57:17  <andythenorth> Wolf01: loads of issues about SE eh :P
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10:57:58  <Wolf01> _settings_newgame should be copied into _settings_game only when entering in SE
10:58:10  <Wolf01> Non for every fucking function
10:58:15  <Wolf01> *not
10:58:20  <andythenorth> related to this? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6604
10:58:42  <Wolf01> Yeah, I'm trying to understand that
10:58:44  <andythenorth> ok
10:59:01  <andythenorth> such FS https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=Scenario+editor
10:59:27  <Wolf01> I set it as "confirmed"
10:59:35  <andythenorth> :)
10:59:49  <andythenorth> 417 FS left now
10:59:52  <Wolf01> I think every single task on SE could be set as "confirmed"
11:00:03  <Wolf01> It's a mess, and all of them are valid
11:00:04  <V453000> XD I managed to hack my way through it! So instead of changing a stupid ass name of some node's sub-paths, I do: 1. remove all sub-paths, 2. create new sub-paths, 3. link the input nodes to the sub-paths :D additionally the linking doesn't work for some input types for whatever reason so I had to make a processing node which just takes stuff and outputs the same stuff, just with customizable ID :D
11:00:06  <V453000> fuck.
11:04:35  <andythenorth> awesome
11:04:43  <andythenorth> kill it with fire
11:05:22  <andythenorth> too many fucking feature requests V453000 :)
11:05:23  <andythenorth> 207
11:05:27  <andythenorth> what should andythenorth do?
11:06:18  <Wolf01> Bonfire
11:06:37  <andythenorth> had the bonfire already
11:06:41  <andythenorth> now into surgical strikes
11:06:59  <andythenorth> I think 100 feature requests might be a better number
11:07:14  <andythenorth> 33 of them are george
11:07:49  <andythenorth> hmm
11:08:01  <andythenorth> I don’t think CD has vehicles on a line https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6356
11:08:20  <andythenorth> a link can be composed of many vehicles, of many types
11:08:34  <andythenorth> e.g. ships + trains on same link
11:08:47  <andythenorth> close?
11:08:50  <V453000> he has the game in slovakian, just remove the ticket
11:09:20  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I don't see your point
11:10:03  <andythenorth> FLHerne: how many vehicle list windows open at once?
11:10:32  <andythenorth> a shit ton
11:10:36  <andythenorth> possibly
11:10:39  <FLHerne> andythenorth: For a cargodist link, there's a set of vehicles that have orders covering that link
11:10:49  <FLHerne> Have it like the station vehicle list?
11:11:01  <FLHerne> It's just one list window, with toggles to show each type
11:11:23  <andythenorth> we’d need toggles in the minimap
11:11:33  <andythenorth> some way to move specific lines back/forward in the z plane
11:11:54  <andythenorth> maybe a minimap zoom
11:12:35  <andythenorth> hmm
11:12:57  <FLHerne> Bleh, my memory of how these things look is bad
11:13:20  <andythenorth> the problem I see is accurately clicking on 1px lines
11:13:22  <FLHerne> What I imagine is some way to select a link, which would then popup something like the station window
11:13:26  <andythenorth> especially when they overlap
11:13:42  <andythenorth> FLHerne: you mean, ‘like the existing station window’? :)
11:13:59  <FLHerne> Which would tell you the estimated capacity, estimated demand, cargo moved in last month or whatever, then have the little vehicle-list buttons
11:14:28  <FLHerne> Maybe a list of cargo waiting at for the link at either end?
11:14:56  <andythenorth> so a cdist links list, accesible from main toolbar?
11:14:59  <FLHerne> (I'm not sure how much of the information actually /exists/ in CDist, I know bits of it are statistics rather than real cargo packets....)
11:15:09  <FLHerne> Hm, that sounds awkward to use
11:15:17  <andythenorth> what’s it for?
11:15:20  <FLHerne> (I really don't like the current towns/industries lists)
11:15:43  <andythenorth> ~nobody does afaict from attempts to patch them :)
11:15:43  <FLHerne> Better idea, have a links list accessible from the station window
11:16:10  <FLHerne> To view details for each link from that station
11:16:37  <FLHerne> (or maybe just expand the cargo-waiting list, but that can be confusing enough already)
11:17:00  <FLHerne>  ‎<‎andythenorth‎>‎ what’s it for?
11:17:47  <FLHerne> At the moment, you go to a station and see "Goods: 2,351 via Fookingsilly"
11:18:07  <andythenorth> annoying isn’t it
11:18:41  <FLHerne> But there's no easy step to determine where the vehicles that should have moved those crates are
11:19:04  <FLHerne> Maybe they're all stuck at a badly-placed signal, or maybe it's some enormous 4000-unit ship that's just coming along now
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11:20:30  <FLHerne> So a way to get from "x units via Foo" to "vehicles that will go to Foo" would be quite useful
11:22:01  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Oh, I think misunderstanding
11:22:20  <FLHerne> andythenorth: You mean the "List of company's stations" window?
11:22:38  <FLHerne> I find that useless and never use it :P
11:22:45  <andythenorth> I have NFI
11:22:52  <FLHerne> I mean the per-station, X-cargo-waiting ones
11:22:54  <andythenorth> it’s not a problem I’ve ever had, so trying to understand it
11:23:03  <FLHerne> NFI?
11:23:11  <andythenorth> No Fucking Idea :)
11:23:16  <andythenorth> I play small maps, I don’t have any problem finding the vehicles for a station
11:23:22  <FLHerne> Ah
11:23:32  <andythenorth> but that ’10,000 very late bags of mail to BallAche”
11:23:34  <andythenorth> is annoying
11:23:44  * andythenorth wonders if that’s the real issue
11:26:52  <FLHerne> andythenorth: If you have hubs with buses and rails and boats going damn well everywhere, it's a pain trying to find out which vehicles are involved
11:27:11  <andythenorth> well I have no solution :)
11:27:15  <FLHerne> My current game isn't really messed up enough yet
11:27:16  <V453000> is why you group them ?
11:27:21  <andythenorth> but clicking on overlapping 1px lines is not the solution
11:27:23  <andythenorth> so that died
11:27:49  <FLHerne> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=184173
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11:28:23  <FLHerne> V453000: If only the station vehicle list showed things by group
11:28:44  <andythenorth> that’s a whole other thing eh :P
11:28:49  <andythenorth> also ‘make group from station list’
11:30:20  <FLHerne> ‎[12:15] ‎<‎FLHerne‎>‎ Better idea, have a links list accessible from the station window
11:30:23  <FLHerne> No clicking on things
11:30:27  <FLHerne> Er, lines
11:30:29  <FLHerne> Click on station
11:30:38  <FLHerne> See there's a ton of X waiting to go via Y
11:31:01  <FLHerne> Click on "view details" button for the link from here to Y
11:31:40  <FLHerne> See estimated capacity/demand, cargo transported in last <time-period>, list of vehicles serving that link
11:32:11  <FLHerne> Click on vehicle to see where it's got stuck
11:32:13  <andythenorth> LordAro: are these same issue https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3997 https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6090 ?
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11:37:20  <Wolf01> Ok, found 2 critical points for FS#6604
11:38:31  <LordAro> andythenorth: hmm, possibly not quite
11:38:41  <andythenorth> ok
11:38:43  <LordAro> 6090 is about changing the selected music set
11:38:46  <andythenorth> I’ll leave them alone
11:38:51  <LordAro> (when in game)
11:39:06  <LordAro> 3997 is playing all of them
11:39:17  <andythenorth> ta
11:39:31  <Wolf01> MakeNewGameSettingsLive() called twice per map generation, one could be disabled by a flag when calling the generation from SE, the other one is in the wrong place, I think it was put there because lazyness
11:39:55  <LordAro> andythenorth: feel free to alter them to make it clearer
11:40:02  <andythenorth> I added your comments :)
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11:44:30  <andythenorth> bah
11:44:52  <andythenorth> can’t find even 1 more feature request to close :x
11:44:53  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=&project=1&search_name=&type%5B%5D=2&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=
11:44:58  <andythenorth> there are 206
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11:49:18  <V453000> does mb actually still work on anything or release something? or does he just bitch on forums nowadays?
11:50:14  <andythenorth> he works on DB stuff
11:50:27  <andythenorth> and marico
11:50:55  <V453000> wasn't lst DB set released on 5/5/2005 ?
11:50:56  <andythenorth> V453000: I have now bought three terrible retro-synth albums :P
11:50:59  <andythenorth> your fault
11:51:02  <V453000> XD
11:51:14  <V453000> how terrible on scale of 0 to zbase?
11:51:14  <andythenorth> marico and newnewships get releases sometimes
11:51:20  <andythenorth> V453000: 11
11:51:21  <V453000> right
11:51:24  <V453000> nice
11:53:04  <andythenorth> well it will be nice when all 206 of these IMPORTANT FEATURES are done
11:53:37  <Wolf01> Ooooh, finally I fixed it
11:53:45  <Wolf01> Cleanup
11:54:37  <andythenorth> Wolf01 works? o_O
11:54:44  <Wolf01> Yes
11:55:05  <Wolf01> I'm able to set a seed from console
11:57:54  <Wolf01> Now it would be nice to have a seed textbox and a randomize button
11:58:07  <andythenorth> my 7 year old wants to set the seed
11:58:12  <andythenorth> NFI why
11:58:22  <andythenorth> think he’s seen it in minecraft or something
11:58:28  <andythenorth> I told him we deleted it from mapgen
11:58:44  <Wolf01> Actually if I set the seed while creating a new game from menu, it gets stored in the settings and always uses that
11:58:55  <andythenorth> is there some flow diagram of how this works?
11:59:04  <Wolf01> I'm trying to figure it out
11:59:46  <andythenorth> seems game settings / game start / SE is like this https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting#Misc._vehicle_flag_5_.27use_of_capacity_multiplier_for_default_cargo.27_cleared
12:00:05  <andythenorth> state + flow seem like a mess
12:00:13  <Wolf01> That's because the wrong use of _settings_newgame
12:00:26  <V453000> FUCK
12:00:30  <Wolf01> SE should use only _settings_game
12:00:30  <andythenorth> there’s no obvious pipeline
12:00:35  <V453000> yes why is seed removed from mapgen
12:00:44  <andythenorth> we were trying to simplify
12:00:46  <V453000> for the case when I want to getseed and put it in there again
12:00:51  <V453000> that's a very dumb point to simplify, sorry
12:00:51  <andythenorth> all of game start has no flow
12:00:59  <andythenorth> everything about it is fucked up
12:01:12  <V453000> it's fine? :d
12:01:35  <Wolf01> Simplifying by fucking up badly
12:01:51  <V453000> you even have a giant ass green Generate button for people who don't want to read all the details
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12:07:14  <Wolf01> At least now I can even change the seed before doing a restart
12:07:44  <Wolf01> Seed: 1 generates a nice map
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12:09:34  <Wolf01> IMO _settings_newgame.game_creation.generation_seed should ALWAYS be set at GENERATE_NEW_SEED and read only
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12:10:58  <Wolf01> While _settings_game.game_creation.generation_seed could be changed freely and copied from the newgame one only if the "reset_settings" parameter is true
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12:25:19  <Wolf01> Is possible to print the enum constant name with DEBUG?
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12:25:55  <Wolf01> In c# it's easy
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12:29:57  <LordAro> Wolf01: in C(++)? no, they're just numbers
12:30:13  <LordAro> gdb can do it because of symbols, but that's a special case
12:30:33  <LordAro> you can look at the rabbit hole that is "enum to string" if you like :p
12:30:44  <Wolf01> Yes, I was there
12:36:11  <Wolf01> MakeNewGameSettingsLive() is always called in the wrong place, no matter what
12:37:37  <Wolf01> It should be called 1) when opening the new game window, 2) when starting a new game from cmd
12:38:17  <Wolf01> 1 <- from menu, not from the game
12:41:53  <Wolf01> 3) when opening the SE, maybe
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12:52:49  <peter1138> hi
12:53:26  <andythenorth> lo peter1138
12:53:30  <andythenorth> is it coffee time?
12:54:03  <peter1138> no
12:54:09  <peter1138> i might go for another cup of tea though
12:54:12  <Wolf01> It's always coffee time
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12:59:01  <Wolf01> Ok, I think I found a nice thing
12:59:38  <Wolf01> If I set a seed in GM_MENU, that seed will be saved in _settings_newgame
13:03:50  <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfnnl4jcv
13:06:50  <andythenorth> is that what game log looks like? o-O
13:06:54  * andythenorth never used it
13:07:14  <Wolf01> I added debugs everywhere
13:07:25  <Wolf01> At least in the interesting points
13:07:34  <Wolf01> I should add more
13:08:29  <peter1138> Wolf01, make it correct
13:08:30  <planetmaker> The seed kinda is interesting if you want to regenerate a map which you liked (and didn't save)
13:10:02  <peter1138> Date:   Sun Apr 27 15:15:28 2014 +0000
13:10:05  <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbgdvxm1n
13:10:06  <peter1138> hmm, been a while
13:10:15  <Wolf01> This one is for SE
13:13:00  <Wolf01> These are the results of my "fix", before that it didn't even work, it always generated a new seed in the same exact moment it generated the new map (GenerateWorld) and it wasn't possible to change it, also the seed was randomized when opening the UI and the next check for GENERATE_NEW_SEED was pointless
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13:15:27  <Wolf01> https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/d1f29f0534aa4485463e6a406d9dad38
13:20:46  <Wolf01> BTW: I would like to save the current seed in _settings_newgame too, and reload it ONLY if doing restart
13:21:26  <Wolf01> So if you change the seed and restart you restart with the same map
13:21:34  <Wolf01> Like vanilla
13:21:54  <andythenorth> what would ‘newgame’ do?
13:22:24  <Wolf01> No, even vanilla fucks up...
13:23:13  <Wolf01> "newgame" should generate a new game. Random? Yes. With a pre-set seed? Yes.
13:23:29  <Wolf01> Current: always random
13:23:47  <andythenorth> yes
13:24:22  <Wolf01> The seed textbox would help a lot
13:25:27  <V453000> What was wrong with the way it was before? Just a seed texbox
13:26:00  <andythenorth> https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=commit;h=f5545aa0b1e6fe90ca56a6c52fa828192434272c
13:26:03  <Wolf01> Before it was right, it was the removal which fucked up all
13:26:12  <V453000> is what I'm saying
13:26:33  <andythenorth> I prefer it gone tbh
13:26:41  <andythenorth> so much crap in world gen window
13:26:52  <Wolf01> You can only set the seed from console when starting a game from the console
13:26:56  <V453000> it's really useful when you want it
13:26:58  <andythenorth> NoRivers
13:27:03  <andythenorth> bring back seed, remove rivers
13:27:05  <V453000> Wolf01: but why?
13:27:15  <Wolf01> Because it's broken
13:27:19  <V453000> what?
13:27:26  <Wolf01> The set seed
13:27:31  <V453000> it always worked?
13:27:37  <Wolf01> Or better, the generation
13:27:40  <V453000> I was using getseed and pasting it there quit ofte
13:27:42  <V453000> often*
13:28:22  <Wolf01> I can't start the map I want with the seed I want
13:28:36  <Wolf01> To get the map I want I must start a new game, set the seed, restart
13:30:04  <Wolf01> And with SE it doesn't even work
13:31:22  <V453000> well if the seed doesn't work properly then that should be fixed
13:31:26  <V453000> just hiding it isn't helpful
13:31:44  <supermop_> hmm there was a 2 train at union square this morning
13:31:45  <Wolf01> Revert r26526
13:32:01  <supermop_> what shits going on in here today
13:32:19  <Wolf01> Also apply my fix
13:32:28  <Wolf01> (without the DEBUGs)
13:32:49  <V453000> tell mr. FS wrecker :P
13:35:02  <Wolf01> andytheFSwrexker: why you don't want the seed box? Only because there are too many settings?
13:35:15  <andythenorth> wasn’t my commit
13:35:25  <andythenorth> frosch went on a nice rampage deleting dead / crap settings
13:35:25  <V453000> sure but you manage shit now :D
13:35:34  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> I prefer it gone tbh -<
13:35:42  <andythenorth> yes, to me it’s just visual noise
13:35:57  <V453000> one helpful setting won't make the world burn in there
13:35:58  <andythenorth> I have no reason to use it, and definitely don’t want to see it in map gen
13:36:01  <andythenorth> but eh
13:36:03  <V453000> there is already a lot of stuff
13:36:05  <Wolf01> But it introduced a bug, maybe it was there too, but now it's even hidden more
13:36:13  <andythenorth> it’s just a load of meaningless numbers :)
13:36:19  <andythenorth> but I am +/-0 on this
13:36:23  <V453000> sure, ignore them if you don't care about them
13:36:27  <andythenorth> there are bigger problems, like map gen is fucked
13:36:36  <Wolf01> Allow people to put strings and convert them to uint
13:36:37  <V453000> but every game that has a seed-based generation has a seed textbox :)
13:36:39  <andythenorth> like, all those settings, and Tropic is still shit
13:37:01  <V453000> well that's bigger issue, yes, but also sounds like it will need much more effort to fix :P
13:37:07  <andythenorth> doubt it :)
13:37:10  <andythenorth> just unfuck it
13:37:24  <V453000> honestly my mind is so crippled that I don't even see tropic as that bad anymore
13:37:28  <V453000> XD
13:37:29  <andythenorth> you are damaged
13:37:33  <V453000> ._.
13:37:36  <andythenorth> seek help
13:37:38  <andythenorth> eat pixels
13:37:41  <Wolf01> I'll scold frosch when he'll arrive
13:37:58  <andythenorth> seeing as everything is connected
13:38:27  <andythenorth> https://linkstate.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/dsc02987.jpg
13:38:30  <Wolf01> Need more biscuits
13:38:44  <V453000> gg
13:38:47  <V453000> I iz defeat
13:39:08  * V453000 is currently generating tree NML in python
13:39:10  <V453000> such automation
13:39:16  <Wolf01> That's how I eat spaghetti
13:39:28  <andythenorth> wtf does map gen UI need tree algo choice?
13:39:29  <andythenorth> dumb
13:39:43  * Wolf01 slaps andythenorth
13:39:52  <andythenorth> choice of generator: TGP / Original
13:39:54  <andythenorth> eh?
13:40:05  <andythenorth> I only use Original to remind myself that TGP is actually better
13:40:07  <V453000> Original still has some use when you want proper old map
13:40:32  <V453000> just make a [x] Reveal Expert Settings :P
13:40:46  <andythenorth> everyone’s favourite UI solution :D
13:41:02  <V453000> make 3 levels: 1. andythenorth - leaves just Generate button, 2. basic settings, 3. all of them
13:41:28  <andythenorth> such
13:41:33  <supermop_> andythenorth: make TGP built in, must add original back by newgrf
13:42:00  <V453000> level 1 can add a disclaimed "Do not add FS tasks about adding options here, the task will be removed in 5 years."
13:42:13  <V453000> disclaimer*
13:42:35  <Wolf01> Fine, I could do it
13:42:41  <supermop_> also i wish pikka houses would try to put all of its many cute warehouses and such next to industries within the town zone
13:43:28  <supermop_> this little cottage nestled in behind the silos of this bulk terminal looks like an odd place to build a new home
13:44:01  <supermop_> V453000: add a disclaimer on FS that open items will be removed after 5 years
13:44:17  <andythenorth> that is legit
13:44:55  <andythenorth> more new rules
13:46:10  <Wolf01> Going to get coffee and biscuits
13:47:07  * andythenorth coffee same
13:49:23  * V453000 python as fuck
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13:51:35  <supermop_> Wolf01: andythenorth good idea maybe me too
13:57:16  <supermop_> i never end up with cities needing food in viv
13:57:26  <supermop_> maybe they just aren't big enough yet
14:11:04  <supermop_> well dave has locked thread. what was all that about?
14:12:50  <Wolf01> The discussion started to rot
14:13:30  <supermop_> as opposed to it being productive before?
14:13:59  <Wolf01> No, but the stink was too much at the end
14:14:44  <Wolf01> Also, cleaned up the patch, some points need a bit of discussion but at least one problem seem to be fixed: https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/d1f29f0534aa4485463e6a406d9dad38
14:19:12  <V453000> TLDR fuck dave
14:19:25  <Wolf01> Feel free to pm SYL
14:19:55  <Wolf01> I won't do it even for all the gold in the world
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14:21:37  <supermop_> what about for all the lego in the world
14:21:56  <Wolf01> With all the gold I'll be able to purchase lego and biscuits
14:22:19  <supermop_> but spending the gold would crash its value
14:22:44  <supermop_> best to melt the gold and mold it into lego shapes
14:24:27  * Wolf01 out for a walk
14:26:00  <andythenorth> V453000: I asked for that to be closed :P
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14:38:34  <andythenorth> these aren’t 8/8 long :( http://www.railpictures.net/photo/627995/
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15:04:56  <V453000> andythenorth: :(
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15:05:52  <V453000> I don't enjoy going to the forums if there is no drama
15:06:07  <andythenorth> yeah, but I think he actually has mental health issues
15:06:18  <V453000> who
15:06:20  <andythenorth> SYL
15:06:29  <V453000> well that's possible but how do you guess that
15:06:36  <andythenorth> he posted that he had a nervous breadown?
15:06:40  <andythenorth> in another thread
15:06:50  <V453000> okay...
15:06:57  <andythenorth> otherwise it would be drama time
15:07:01  <V453000> should I write that somewhere? :D :P
15:07:37  <andythenorth> also there is literally an overwhelming amount of wrong
15:08:16  <andythenorth> the only possible reply I could think of was ‘Relax.  It’s all going to be ok.’
15:08:18  <V453000> I tried to contribute with motivating shit but it didn't add to the discussion at all XD
15:08:42  <andythenorth> I miss DaleStan
15:09:06  * andythenorth lives too much in the past :P
15:09:08  <andythenorth> Onwards!
15:10:47  <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/brix/files everything will change but I got the pipeline working :D
15:11:03  <V453000> growth stages are transparent atm
15:11:04  <V453000> but yeah
15:11:21  <V453000> now it's just blender work :)
15:11:25  <V453000> just
15:12:25  <andythenorth> nice
15:12:33  <andythenorth> I hope you are accounting for NoTrees future :P
15:15:37  <V453000> well this is just a base replacement :P
15:20:57  <andythenorth> such new
15:21:00  <andythenorth> v. good
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15:42:40  <_3298> so much for "no low-hanging fruit remaining" in terms of patches
15:43:18  <andythenorth> found some? o_O
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15:44:10  <_3298> just identified and fixed another small interface bug, https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5978
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15:45:38  <_3298> less than 10 lines changed does qualify for low hanging fruit, doesn't it?
15:45:56  <andythenorth> hope so :D
15:46:59  <andythenorth> I can’t test right now, but I’ve changed FS status
15:51:49  <_3298> i also have a nasty surprise for you
15:52:18  <_3298> a patch for a feature request you closed
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16:00:53  <andythenorth> _3298: which issue?
16:01:01  <_3298> 4540
16:01:45  <andythenorth> does it also patch? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4811
16:01:48  * andythenorth expects not
16:02:00  <_3298> no
16:02:42  <_3298> but it solves a few of the issues with the existing patches discussed in the comments
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16:22:27  <supermop_> ugh
16:22:50  <supermop_> had to wait 20 min for a 4 train becausae stupid subway on fire
16:22:50  <andythenorth> quak
16:22:58  <andythenorth> supermop_: those silly subways being on fire
16:23:13  <supermop_> happens more than you'd expect here
16:23:45  <andythenorth> is it minor?
16:23:57  <andythenorth> or are we about to feel bad about mocking tragedy :|
16:27:04  <frosch123> hoi
16:30:52  <peter1138> polloi
16:31:53  <supermop_> they happen every couple days in the summer
16:32:09  <supermop_> mostly trash get ignited by a spark
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16:32:30  <supermop_> for big one the is issue of smoke inhalation
16:33:06  <supermop_> usually its a smaller minor delay, this one seems to be a bit bigger
16:37:55  <_3298> andy, wanna try and break the patch? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4540
16:40:34  <_3298> i tested it thoroughly and found no issues myself, but it's not as tiny as the other patches i submitted on flyspray, so another person who thinks differently may very well find something
16:40:52  <andythenorth> I can’t right now :)
16:40:57  <_3298> no problem
16:42:22  <_3298> a weekend is just ahead, maybe i can also get that review you mentioned then
16:46:31  <andythenorth> maybe hope frosch123 or alberth are interested ;)
16:46:52  <andythenorth> or even :o peter1138
16:47:06  <andythenorth> @seen rubidium
16:47:06  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: rubidium was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 3 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Rubidium> sure
16:47:13  <andythenorth> @seen belugas
16:47:13  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: belugas was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <Belugas> yeah, a birthday :)  a good friend of mine!
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17:05:01  <andythenorth> V453000: more music such - maybe too piano for you :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OEKbvXBSZQ
17:05:07  <andythenorth> but wait for the synth :P
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17:15:51  <peter1138> no such thing as too much piano
17:15:54  <peter1138> as long as it's a real piano
17:16:03  <peter1138> or a good rendition of one
17:17:18  <frosch123> hmm, nuts does not use 32px vehicles
17:17:20  <supermop_> V453000: not a debussy fan i take it then?
17:17:39  <andythenorth> bloody NUTS
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17:18:38  <supermop_> ew
17:20:22  * Wolf01 slaps frosch123
17:20:58  <Wolf01> Revert r26526
17:21:16  <Wolf01> And review my fix :P
17:21:26  <V453000> wot
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17:21:49  <frosch123> no seeds in gui :)
17:21:58  <Wolf01> Bullshit
17:22:09  <Wolf01> I want to put my phone number in it
17:22:17  <Wolf01> Seed in console doesn't work
17:22:28  <frosch123> it did back then
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17:22:34  <Wolf01> Now is borked
17:23:39  <peter1138> heh
17:23:44  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/depotgui.png http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/depotgui.diff <- only enables when all vehicles use 32px reference length
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17:23:58  <frosch123> i wonder whether people will report it as bug at it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't :p
17:24:12  <frosch123> *if
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17:26:07  <Wolf01> What if you use ,1 ,3 for GfxDrawLine?
17:26:47  <frosch123> dash?
17:26:55  <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/vaLrNF0
17:27:08  <Wolf01> Looks less border
17:28:39  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/depotgui2.png <- but also looks weird
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17:30:49  <frosch123> i guess i can also enable it when using only default vehicles
17:30:50  <Wolf01> It will look weird anyway, but at least not confusing
17:30:53  <frosch123> then i can blame it onto the grf
17:31:06  <frosch123> @blame nuts
17:31:06  <DorpsGek> frosch123: blames nuts
17:32:47  <LordAro> right
17:32:47  <Wolf01> Updated FS#6604 with patch to review
17:32:50  <LordAro> what can i do
17:33:16  <frosch123> blame nuts, easy to do
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17:33:30  <Wolf01> I should make a script for this client to automatically link to bugs.o.o when one writes FS#xxxx
17:33:33  <LordAro> @blame nuts
17:33:34  <DorpsGek> LordAro: blames nuts
17:33:37  <LordAro> ok, now what
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17:34:50  <LordAro> Wolf01: maybe a plugin for DorpsGek would be better?
17:35:02  <LordAro> i used to know what bot DorpsGek was, but i've forgotten
17:35:03  <Wolf01> Nah, too much spam
17:35:10  <LordAro> why?
17:35:17  <supermop_> frosch123: doesn't look weird to me
17:35:33  <Wolf01> It already reports commits
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17:35:50  <supermop_> the chiseled border represents the bounds of one vehicle/consist
17:35:55  <LordAro> yeah...?
17:36:14  <supermop_> so no border for length of train bits
17:36:31  <supermop_> or do i misunderstand what you think is weird
17:36:44  <supermop_> to me, the train and truck depots should look differetn
17:37:16  <frosch123> @fs 6604
17:37:16  <DorpsGek> frosch123: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6604
17:37:21  <frosch123> LordAro: done years ago
17:37:24  <frosch123> also it's supybot
17:37:42  <LordAro> ah yes
17:38:13  <LordAro> well, that requires a specific command though, it doesn't look at "normal" messages
17:38:21  <frosch123> supermop_: the vertical lines in truck depot separate vehicles, the vertical lines in train depot represent full-tile lengths
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17:42:00  <LordAro> anyway
17:42:04  <LordAro> what *else* can i do?
17:43:06  <frosch123> Wolf01: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/seed.png
17:43:22  <frosch123> works for me, maybe you have weird settings that reload the config or something
17:43:29  <Wolf01> frosch123, doesn't work in SE
17:43:31  <frosch123> there are some rabbit holes
17:43:55  <supermop_> frosch123: but they are drawn in different styles, which seems appropriate to me
17:45:05  <frosch123> Wolf01: also work for me
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17:50:12  <frosch123> Wolf01: also that is a meh patch to review. there are like 5 different methods to start a game (random, scenario, heightmap, load, ...) and they all use different methods to activate the settings. you can throw a D6 and on 1-5 something is wrong with the patch :p
17:51:01  <Wolf01> Yes, that's why I said "to review" and not "fixed"
17:51:34  <V453000> frosch123: seed :(
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17:51:52  <Wolf01> BTW I'm totally against removing the seed from UI, change the UI with 2 tabs "base" and "advanced"
17:52:19  <Wolf01> Maybe 3 tabs, one called "andythenorth" with only the green "generate" button
17:52:22  <frosch123> no, the seed is completely misleading
17:52:28  <Wolf01> Why?
17:52:40  <frosch123> random settings completely change its meaning
17:52:48  <frosch123> it's no exchange-string which encodes all game settings
17:52:51  <frosch123> so it is pointless
17:53:11  <Wolf01> The gui need to be fixed, removing features because the gui is misleading is bullshit
17:53:34  <Wolf01> Seed is for terrain, not for what's over it
17:53:40  <frosch123> like 3 people failed to fix the mapgen gui :)
17:54:02  <Wolf01> Because no one even tried
17:54:20  <Wolf01> Like the show stuff in transparency ui
17:54:23  <frosch123> i think andy closed a task wih 100 reponses abou tit
17:54:29  <Wolf01> Just silly mocks
17:54:49  <frosch123> someone even wrote a html mockup to test diferent mapgen guis
17:54:55  <frosch123> (interactive)
17:56:02  <frosch123> anyway, you have not yet stated a signle reason why the seed is useful
17:56:19  <frosch123> i would claim that the "restart" command is more useful in every case
17:56:27  <Wolf01> Yes
17:57:16  <Wolf01> But I might know a good seed and want to reuse it, without looking for a savegame to restart
17:57:26  <frosch123> well, try and fail :p
17:57:46  <frosch123> i don't have the impression you know what the seed really did
17:58:38  <Wolf01> I use the seed in other games which are seed based, some regenerate the same exact map with structures and shit, some others regenerate only the terrain
17:58:55  <frosch123> both does not apply to the seed in ottd
17:59:08  <frosch123> you have to remember every single mapgen setting in addition to the seed
17:59:29  <V453000> could the seed be changed in order to remember the values as well then?
17:59:42  <frosch123> the old seed has nothing to do with a map-exchange-string as you can find it in other games
17:59:52  <V453000> I guess it won't generate industries etc the same way anyway right
18:00:09  <V453000> well it did generate the map exactly the same as long as you had the same settings
18:00:11  <Wolf01> It works the same in gnomoria, and there you can even set the origin to have a different map with the same seed, just another area of the generated world
18:00:19  <Wolf01> BTW, dinner
18:00:48  <frosch123> V453000: changing map size or hilliness already completely invalidates the old seed
18:00:49  <V453000> even if it would be a feature only with newgrf developer tools or something it would still be helpful in some cases when I want to generate the same or similar map
18:00:53  <V453000> sure
18:00:54  <V453000> that's fine
18:01:26  <frosch123> if you are newgrf developer, what's wrong with using the console?
18:01:30  <V453000> it doesn't invalidate it completely though, you can usually see the map have similar shapes so you can actually guess if you should make it bigger or smaller, less or more
18:01:37  <V453000> I never used the console for openttd
18:01:50  <V453000> or ingame console?
18:01:56  <frosch123> ingame console
18:02:09  <V453000> :0
18:02:11  <V453000> how would I do that?
18:02:11  <frosch123> and even then "restart" is way more useful
18:02:19  <frosch123> V453000: see screenshot above?
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18:02:39  <V453000> well getseed I know
18:02:41  <V453000> but how to use it
18:02:45  <frosch123> and the lien above that?
18:02:55  <andythenorth> how could seed be better?
18:02:55  <V453000> oh
18:03:03  <andythenorth> also can we encode all trees with seed? :P
18:03:17  <V453000> ok at least that, thanks frosch123 :)
18:03:32  <V453000> wasn't aware of that way
18:10:13  <andythenorth> shall I offer FS bounties?
18:10:18  * andythenorth ponders
18:10:33  <andythenorth> I lost a 50p bet in the forums and paid up for that
18:11:43  <andythenorth> I can’t find a single feature request that is valid to close https://bugs.openttd.org/index/proj1?string=&project=1&search_name=&type%5B0%5D=2&sev%5B0%5D=&pri%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=open&percent%5B0%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index&order=lastedit&sort=desc
18:12:04  <andythenorth> there are 206
18:12:40  <andythenorth> oh there is one
18:12:46  * andythenorth wonders who can find it first
18:16:05  <Wolf01> frosch123: I think also minecraft changes the terrain with the same seed and different settings
18:16:52  <frosch123> andythenorth: if you keep doing that you make people open more task which they then can request closure for :)
18:17:03  <Wolf01> It's always possible to write what it does in the UI and make a better UI
18:17:08  <andythenorth> I will amend the rules frosch123 :P
18:17:16  <andythenorth> caveats and exclusions apply
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18:18:50  * andythenorth is bored, it’s 1596 :P
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18:27:47  <Wolf01> Also, frosch123, do you know why seed doesn't work? Because nobody reads the usage of "newgame", so everyone uses "set generation_seed 1234" and "newgame" instead of "newgame 1234", which is even worse than having a seed which doesn't do what you want in the UI
18:28:13  <Wolf01> I didn't figure out that newgame accepted a seed until you show it to me
18:30:29  <frosch123> so, close the task?
18:31:26  <Wolf01> I'm not so sure, I would close that and open a new one to refactor the entire SE and uncouple it from _settings_newgame
18:32:36  <Wolf01> Also I would open a new one to change the SE genland UI
18:33:58  <frosch123> well, SE is not mentioned a single time in the task. i also have trouble correlating SE with seed, but do what you like
18:35:20  <Wolf01> What is valid for SE is valid for normal game, since they share the same functions
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18:37:33  <andythenorth> Wolf01: are you allowed to close tasks?  I can do it if not
18:37:45  <andythenorth> but give me a 2 line rationale
18:37:58  <Wolf01> Yes I can do what you can do
18:39:00  <Wolf01> "frosch pointed out that you should use newgame 1234 to set a seed, set generation_seed 1234 won't work, by design" could be right?
18:40:12  <andythenorth> it’s 6604?
18:40:17  <Wolf01> Yes
18:40:41  <andythenorth> Ah that’s James1101, I emailed him to invite him rto irc
18:41:32  <andythenorth> Wolf01: “Flyspray clean up: not obvious what else should be done with this, so closing now. If this offends, discuss with Wolf01 in irc.  Thanks for the report :)"
18:41:35  <andythenorth> stick that on the end
18:44:53  <Wolf01> Closed
18:47:51  <andythenorth> 413 left :D
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18:49:49  <andythenorth> keep trying to find a reason to close https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5640
18:49:57  <andythenorth> we blatantly don’t need it :)
18:50:03  <andythenorth> but I can’t think of a good objection
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18:54:34  <frosch123> hyperlinks are also a part of the storybook roadmap
18:54:44  <frosch123> though more related to ingame things like towns and places
18:55:01  <andythenorth> I was +1 to hyperlinks to project site
18:55:14  <andythenorth> somehow, I wouldn’t want blue underlined text all over the vehicle UI
18:55:23  <andythenorth> but eh, it doesn’t have to be used
18:55:44  <frosch123> what about links in industry window to firs docs?
18:55:50  <andythenorth> blah
18:55:51  <andythenorth> tbh
18:56:06  <frosch123> or in newgrf settings window?
18:56:22  <andythenorth> we have it there
18:56:27  <andythenorth> it’s done
18:56:34  <andythenorth> want vehicle info?  Make a project website
18:56:51  <andythenorth> we have 145 actual (or reported) bugs, why look for new ones :)
18:57:09  <andythenorth> that argument is a bit unsustainable :)
18:57:18  <andythenorth> could be applied to any new feature
18:57:24  <andythenorth> I’ll leave it open :P
18:57:34  <andythenorth> but george is nearly 10% of open FS
18:58:00  <andythenorth> @calc 37 / 413
18:58:00  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.089588377724
18:58:07  <andythenorth> @calc 1 / 413
18:58:07  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.00242130750605
18:58:30  <andythenorth> I am 0.24% of FS :P
19:00:23  <andythenorth> I did close some george requests earlier as ‘implemented’ though :)
19:00:33  <andythenorth> that was good, they had been done, around 2009-2010
19:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you realize that by rejecting var B8 there is no chance the wild west grf will ever be done
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19:03:49  <andythenorth> I will apologise to Bad Brett next time he shows up
19:04:06  <andythenorth> $someone can blame me for ruining the best grf never released :)
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19:05:01  <frosch123> i thought that was a landscape grf
19:05:25  <andythenorth> george requests https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=&project=1&search_name=&type%5B%5D=&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=george
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19:08:29  <V453000> what is var B8?
19:09:59  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5300
19:12:21  <V453000> I read it 3 times
19:12:27  <V453000> I don't know for shit what it does XD some vehicle animation
19:12:28  <V453000> ?
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19:15:46  <andythenorth> @summon george
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19:30:11  <peter1138> 2hi
19:30:12  <peter1138> -2
19:32:29  <LordAro> +2
19:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause> *2
19:34:02  <andythenorth> 2^
19:34:08  <Wolf01> 2!
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19:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it allows you to animate the vehicles to travel less than a full step (which is quite far on 4x zoom), so slow vehicles will look less jump-y
19:34:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: fail, ! is an unary operator...
19:35:20  <Wolf01> :(
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19:35:36  <V453000> right
19:35:43  <V453000> is what I thought
19:36:17  <andythenorth> this
19:36:21  * andythenorth no understand
19:36:22  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6018
19:37:27  <V453000> iz workaround?
19:38:47  <andythenorth> but already haz checking neighbouring vehicles properties
19:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i always thought explicit access to random bits was a bit poor
19:39:02  * andythenorth checks docs
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19:39:55  <andythenorth> hmm, ok
19:40:53  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but i don't quite get whether he's requesting CB10 to be allowed for accessing var 61, or whether var61 doesn't have access to random bits because there's no variable for it
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19:41:13  <andythenorth> I assumed it was no var for random bits in var61
19:41:48  <Eddi|zuHause> if the former, there was once an idea to split the "parent" into different groups of vehicles
19:42:12  <Eddi|zuHause> like first vehicle in the train, first vehicle in the articulated chain, etc.
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19:45:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is this you? o_O http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/var4X_weight.patch
19:45:50  * andythenorth guessing random people with .de
19:45:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that is till accessible?
19:45:59  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6004
19:46:20  <Eddi|zuHause> *still
19:47:16  <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/a/8zkRl <- newgame window andythenorth version
19:47:26  <andythenorth> such :)
19:47:31  <Wolf01> One button should say "advanced"
19:47:36  <andythenorth> there is a whole thread in forums where I redesigned UI :)
19:47:41  <andythenorth> it wasn’t great
19:47:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but yes, that is me
19:48:11  <andythenorth> 6004 is probably essential eh
19:48:14  * andythenorth leaves that
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19:52:56  <frosch123> Wolf01: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5147 https://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_re-arrangement <- more mockups :)
19:53:15  <frosch123> none of them adds a map preview
19:53:56  <Wolf01> I don't see many games which add a map preview when generating a new map
19:54:28  <frosch123> yeah, poeple have to regen 20 times until they like it
19:54:42  <frosch123> it gets worse with settings like roughness which noone understands
19:54:53  <andythenorth> I have to generate 20-30 maps to get a decent SV or NCG map
19:54:59  <andythenorth> between the random cargos, and the random map :P
19:55:07  <frosch123> it's worse in factorio since you only see the starting area
19:55:14  <andythenorth> patches from < 2014 are about to get ‘unlucky’ if I think
19:55:24  <Wolf01> *coff* minecraft *coff*
19:55:56  <frosch123> andythenorth: closed tasks are hard to find
19:56:09  <andythenorth> how many are there?
19:56:26  <frosch123> i think we discussed three fs taks in the last 3 days which were already closed
19:56:26  <andythenorth> 4032
19:56:32  <Wolf01> I would like to make a UI like that one, but I don't know how to handle tabs, seem that tabs were removed from the entire game
19:56:50  <andythenorth> frosch123: we can reopen them :)
19:57:11  <frosch123> Wolf01: a patch is pointless, they get huge and then none agrees
19:57:18  <frosch123> also we have tab-like things in various windows
19:57:30  <Wolf01> Eh, I can't find them
19:57:56  <andythenorth> I wouldn’t tackle a newgame UI currently
19:57:58  <andythenorth> tarpit
19:58:04  <Wolf01> I was sure the old settings window had taps
19:58:06  <andythenorth> looks like SE could get some love though
19:58:08  <Wolf01> *tabs
19:58:26  <Eddi|zuHause> those were abolished when the tree was added
19:58:57  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe tabs is what could save the order gui?
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19:59:18  <frosch123> Wolf01: NWID_SELECTION plus some buttons to toggle the selection
20:01:08  <andythenorth> order GUI needs set on fire
20:01:23  <_3298> :(
20:01:36  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=Orders%3A
20:01:44  <frosch123> _3298: i added your patch to my latest todo list :)
20:01:47  <andythenorth> so many desires for so many orders
20:02:13  <frosch123> andythenorth: there is a dicussion topic on the forums with many mockups
20:02:23  <frosch123> it boils down to: we need factorio-style orders
20:02:37  <andythenorth> oic :)
20:02:47  * andythenorth gave up F when the biters showed up in the demo
20:02:50  <andythenorth> never got to trains
20:02:58  <frosch123> noone plays with biters
20:03:05  <andythenorth> also I couldn’t work the things that insert to conveyors right
20:03:10  <andythenorth> they placed in the wrong place
20:03:19  <andythenorth> are biters equivalent to ottd disasters?
20:03:20  <frosch123> biters are only for selling the game, not to actually play with them
20:03:40  <V453000> XD
20:03:42  <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess they compare to ottd's money economy
20:03:53  <andythenorth> there are 33 patches > 4 years old
20:03:53  <Wolf01> Is there a way to specify a stringID without adding a real string?
20:03:56  <frosch123> newbies love a "hard" game were you may bankrupt
20:03:59  <andythenorth> are they unlucky patches? o_O
20:04:31  <frosch123> Wolf01: what shall it show?
20:04:50  <Wolf01> A string
20:04:56  <andythenorth> oh some of these are patches I started testing
20:05:11  <andythenorth> these are FAILING patches :P
20:05:14  <frosch123> Wolf01: emoji?
20:05:40  <Wolf01> Like SetDataTip((StringID)"Temp string just for a try", STR_NULL)
20:05:48  <frosch123> maybe you mean STR_JUST_RAWSTRING, or STR_BLACK_RAWSTRING
20:06:26  <frosch123> but you cannot pass the stringparams via SetDataTip
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20:10:13  <andythenorth> _3298: repoened https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4540
20:10:17  <andythenorth> reopened *
20:12:13  <Wolf01> @summon alberth
20:12:23  <andythenorth> @summon DaleStan
20:13:11  <andythenorth> I want to shoot this pony https://bugs.openttd.org/task/2071
20:15:16  * andythenorth wonders if nml gained a built-in for it
20:15:28  <andythenorth> seems not
20:16:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that behaviour changed
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20:16:57  <andythenorth> I am checking
20:17:00  <andythenorth> similar recollection
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20:22:39  <andythenorth> can’t find anything
20:23:42  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/2079
20:23:52  <andythenorth> wtf are action D vars 93 to 96 for?
20:24:56  <andythenorth> and what’s the idea of trying to extend sprites off to SE / SW from an adjacent tile?
20:25:00  <andythenorth> that don’t work :P
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20:26:25  <frosch123> 93 to 96 are a myth
20:27:06  <andythenorth> I’ve closed it, it’s bollocks
20:27:23  <andythenorth> we all learn stuff, that’s from early days
20:27:47  <andythenorth> not needed
20:27:54  <andythenorth> ho, this behaviour bugs hell out of me :) https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3000
20:27:57  <V453000> andythenorth: iz possible that gmail on macbook doesn't open odt?
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20:28:04  <V453000> sounds weird af to me
20:28:05  <andythenorth> V453000: NFI
20:28:19  <V453000> don't you use that god forsaken operating system? :D
20:28:24  <andythenorth> I do and gmail
20:28:34  <andythenorth> .odt is what, open office or some shit?
20:28:38  <V453000> yeah
20:28:46  <V453000> wife got it from some school shit
20:29:07  <andythenorth> I just opened an .odt in Word
20:29:26  <andythenorth> shrug emoji
20:29:42  <V453000> shrug
20:30:07  <andythenorth> google docs can open them allegedly
20:30:17  <andythenorth> and TextEdit on OS X, allegedly
20:30:21  <V453000> I am opening it on windows easily in google stuff
20:30:37  <V453000> I was assuming a browser based thing would work equally on mac
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20:31:32  <andythenorth> I would assume same
20:31:43  <andythenorth> chrome is equally crap everywhere, as far as I know
20:31:49  <V453000> XD
20:31:50  <V453000> well
20:31:52  <andythenorth> no platform favouritism
20:31:57  <V453000> assumption iz, computers iz, works not
20:32:07  <V453000> standard situation
20:32:15  * andythenorth wonders how hard this really is? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3000
20:32:35  <andythenorth> probably more hard than I want to know :P
20:32:42  <V453000> not over 3000
20:32:59  <andythenorth> at least 3000?
20:33:10  <V453000> exactly 3000
20:35:10  <andythenorth> oops
20:35:18  <andythenorth> got totally utterly bored with FS now :D
20:35:29  <andythenorth> this one tipped me over the edge https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3416
20:35:48  <andythenorth> trying to repro that means tracking down a manual grf to test, that matches up with a server
20:35:54  <andythenorth> who even has manual grfs now?
20:35:55  <andythenorth> where?
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20:36:57  <V453000> XD
20:38:31  <frosch123> andythenorth: does that window have a rescan newgrf button today?
20:39:18  <andythenorth> it has ‘rescan files'
20:39:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: the newgrf settings window in multiplayer has a rescan file buttion, so task can be closed
20:39:36  <andythenorth> ha
20:39:44  <frosch123> was done whenever the new newgrf gui was written
20:39:55  <andythenorth> no need to repro :)
20:40:30  <andythenorth> thanks
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20:43:36  <andythenorth> eh? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4355
20:43:45  <andythenorth> what loading indicator in transparency UI?
20:43:48  <andythenorth> there isn’t one
20:48:14  <andythenorth> oh
20:48:17  <andythenorth> it’s the train icon
20:48:24  <andythenorth> I just assumed that was broken
20:48:50  <andythenorth> I could never figure why we’d want invisible trains either
20:51:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=943664#p943664 <- just link that
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20:51:49  <andythenorth> yes
20:53:00  <frosch123> many ideas, none convincing
20:53:23  <andythenorth> why loading indicators need to be transparent?
20:53:25  <andythenorth> there’s a setting
20:53:31  <andythenorth> it’s a convenient toggle?
20:53:57  <frosch123> it can block the view, but it does not need to be separate from the other texts
20:54:53  <frosch123> not sure what the setting does
20:55:08  <frosch123> either both buttons do the same, or they are independent and ORed :p
20:55:32  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I can't understand how to use the NWID_SELECTION
20:56:49  <frosch123> you define multiple child widget for it, which are the tab panes
20:56:55  <Wolf01> Yes
20:56:57  <frosch123> than you "select" one of them to show
20:57:20  <Wolf01> That's what I'm looking for
20:57:25  <andythenorth> eh 409 FS left :)
20:58:08  <frosch123> SetDisplayedPlane
20:59:11  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/toplevel/proj1 :)
20:59:18  <andythenorth> project is 0% done
20:59:25  <andythenorth> most wanted task is interesting :)
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21:00:43  <frosch123> i thought we disabled the votes
21:01:14  <Wolf01> frosch123: I have set lowered, disabled and focused
21:01:42  <andythenorth> votes look disabled :)
21:01:53  <frosch123> they are old votes
21:02:01  <frosch123> 2012 is the newest
21:02:13  <frosch123> Wolf01: no idea why any of those would matter
21:02:22  <frosch123> did you check the other places where it is used?
21:03:59  <_dp_> istead of exporting subtile progress to newgrfs it would be much better to fix ingame display coords imo
21:04:00  <Wolf01> Oh, it's a method of that specific widget, I looked in the window
21:05:12  <frosch123> _dp_: but that would not involve digging up some ttd cheatsheet and making bold claims about what those vars should do
21:05:37  <frosch123> (read: all requests for 80+x variables are bollocks)
21:06:24  <_dp_> frosch123, they kinda need to be fixed anyway :p
21:06:59  <_dp_> as well as subtile coords themselves
21:07:20  <_dp_> turns changing length after rotation is a complete nonsense
21:07:44  <frosch123> even factorio failed to fix that :p
21:09:08  <andythenorth> Rewrite!
21:09:13  * andythenorth should go to bed eh
21:10:27  <Wolf01> Ok, I think I used NWID_SELECTION the very wrong way
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21:12:04  <_dp_> btw, I want to add more granularity (and range) to town growth speed
21:12:55  <_dp_> is it a good idea to make patch on top of ones for #6378 and #6397?
21:13:47  <_dp_> coz if I don't they'll have to be changed as well
21:14:36  <supermop_> ok who has the list of trains in excel?
21:14:39  <supermop_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1191113#p1191113
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21:15:18  * _dp_ has list of trains in json
21:17:18  <Wolf01> Ok, now I can show and hide stuff, but it's still keeping the position like if the hidden stuff is there (which is there)
21:17:46  <andythenorth> I have list of my trains in python
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21:25:41  <andythenorth> 405 FS open
21:25:45  * andythenorth bed
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21:27:55  <frosch123> Wolf01: SZSP_xxx is for collapsing stuff
21:28:43  <Wolf01> I used SZSP_NONE, it should collapse both directions
21:28:55  <supermop_> should i bring computer to asia just so i can buy wifi on the flight there
21:28:56  * _dp_ writes python that writes python that parses admin protocol inside admin protocol
21:29:02  <_dp_> shit escalated quickly xD
21:29:11  <Wolf01> I'll try with vertical
21:29:45  <Wolf01> Still no change
21:31:03  <supermop_> is it offensive to tell my client to have a fun time in HK and china?
21:31:32  <supermop_> as a chinese national would delineating the two be a slight?
21:31:49  * supermop_ has started many 2cc set arguments about this
21:32:08  <frosch123> wish fun with traveling :p
21:32:28  <supermop_> i'll be travelling too, but in korea
21:32:33  <LordAro> supermop_: "have fun on holiday"
21:32:49  <LordAro> "or business trip, whatever"
21:33:06  <supermop_> its actually not a vacation but rather she has to leave and reenter country to get green card
21:33:26  <supermop_> i hope i get vaporized
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21:47:47  <supermop_> ok im out
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22:12:45  <__3298> Wolf01, I've dealt with openttd windows resizing themselves before, perhaps you should check out how existing windows with that ability do it, e.g. the finances window
22:13:45  <__3298> as far as i remember, stuff gets hidden completely via SetDisplayedPlane(0) followed by a ReInit
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22:34:21  <Wolf01> __3298: https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/671a26d9ee339a0d72567b794950a6f0 could you see what it the problem?
22:35:06  <Wolf01> I'm just mocking it to learn how the ui works, I was used to the old one
22:39:18  <__3298> i think ReInit is missing after the SetDisplayedPlane calls
22:40:17  <Wolf01> I didn't see a ReInit on other UIs
22:40:26  <Wolf01> Maybe a finishInitNested?
22:41:51  <__3298> company_gui.cpp, struct CompanyFinancesWindow
22:43:19  <__3298> it doesn't even use NWID_SELECTION, but with some SetDisplayedPlane and ReInit it resizes itself to a tiny window and back to the full one
22:44:00  <__3298> scratch that, it does use NWID_SELECTION, i just missed it
22:45:13  <Wolf01> ReInit does nothing O_o
22:46:10  <__3298> maybe it's some secret ingredient in the construction. i know i copied it and got a transparency window with a working resize button
22:46:13  <Wolf01> Ok, it does change the window size
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22:46:18  <Wolf01> But I don't really wanted that
22:46:34  <__3298> ... what then?
22:47:02  <Wolf01> https://www.w3schools.com/howto/howto_js_tabs.asp
22:48:16  <Wolf01> I get the same behaviour but with tabs vertically stacked
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22:49:07  <__3298> i think i need to compile that to understand
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22:52:39  <__3298> bah, base language changes, they always make the thing recompile everything. sooo slow
22:53:14  <Wolf01> Yes, that's why I asked if it was possible to use a string :P
22:53:58  <__3298> heh
22:55:18  <__3298> it is possible with those raw string thingy, but i think it's too much trouble because you need to make sure the parameter is set when the string is drawn
22:55:34  <__3298> ah, it finished compiling
22:56:53  <__3298> aaahhh, i see what you mean about vertically stacked
23:09:46  <__3298> i have a suspicion, currently recompiling to confirm/deny
23:11:51  <__3298> yup, that was it
23:13:16  <__3298> having three widgets of type NWID_SELECTION isn't the right way, one is what you need
23:14:02  <Wolf01> I started with one and named containers but got null pointers when trying to hide them
23:14:16  <__3298> then you stuff your tabs in it, one composite (is that the right term?) widget like NWID_HORIZONTAL per tab
23:14:46  <__3298> on the selection one you call SetDisplayedPlane with a parameter 0, 1, 2, ...
23:16:35  <__3298> the order window's delete/stop sharing button works that way (dunno why, they could have made it one button which changes text and checks the context in its Onclick, but instead it's two buttons that get exchanged via NWID_SELECTION)
23:18:04  <Wolf01> Ok, now it works
23:18:38  <__3298> great, glad to be helpful for once
23:18:41  <Wolf01> Thanks __3298
23:20:04  <__3298> it's been years since i last messed with that stuff, without grep i wouldn't have remembered that order window button, but that was the key
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23:22:32  <__3298> well, bedtime
23:23:27  <__3298> or, as andy would put it: /me -> bed
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