Log for #openttd on 24th September 2017:
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05:48:26  <Alberth> o/
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06:45:17  <andythenorth> o/
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06:54:51  <andythenorth> hmm
06:56:13  <andythenorth> ‘short buy menu’, ‘multiple generations’, ‘vehicles never expire: on’
06:56:18  <andythenorth> opposing goals?
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07:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause> you should design for vehicles expiring...
07:01:32  <Eddi|zuHause> even if you don't use it
07:02:18  <Eddi|zuHause> also, you can manually hide vehicles
07:02:30  <Alberth> o/
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07:23:33  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
07:25:41  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: +1
07:25:53  <andythenorth> can’t remember why I always have vehicle expiry off
07:26:06  <andythenorth> might be an artefact of newgrf development
07:26:16  <andythenorth> or maybe there was a plane in a pikka set I needed
07:26:57  <andythenorth> is a ‘toggleexpiry’ a possible console command?
07:27:02  <andythenorth> it would also run reset engines
07:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you can "set <whatever>", and then resetengines
07:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> also, people might want to set expiry without resetting
07:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause> especially when you set it to on
07:33:01  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. you play from 1950 to 2000, but then you want to keep all the 2000 vehicles around forever, and switch no-expire on
07:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause> if you then ran "resetengines", you would get the 1950 engines back
07:33:20  <andythenorth> possibly I should also stop setting ‘VEHICLE_NEVER_EXPIRES’ for all vehicles :P
07:33:24  <Eddi|zuHause> which you probably don't want
07:48:15  * andythenorth wonders
07:48:22  <andythenorth> if there are ‘short’ and ‘long’ wagons
07:48:41  <andythenorth> is the length relative to date?  Or fixed in perpetuity?
07:48:50  <andythenorth> i.e. short is 4/8 -> 6/8
07:48:57  <andythenorth> and long is 6/8 -> 8/8
07:49:18  <andythenorth> or are there short, medium, long?
07:50:00  <Eddi|zuHause> fixed
07:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe not
07:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe freight is always 4/8 and 6/8 and passengers always 6/8 and 8/8
08:06:21  <andythenorth> pax is always 6/8 and 8/8
08:06:25  <andythenorth> seems to work well
08:06:34  <andythenorth> freight at 4/8 and 8/8 works well
08:06:43  <andythenorth> but at some point, long freight wagons are wanted by realism
08:06:46  <andythenorth> also look good
08:10:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's nothing really stopping you from switching up the lengths in a new generation
08:11:55  <andythenorth> it’s mostly a question about buy menu names
08:12:11  <andythenorth> “Box Car” and “Box Car”, but visually one is obviously longer than the other
08:12:21  <andythenorth> or “Long Box Car” and “Short Box Car”
08:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> leave out the long/short
08:15:13  <andythenorth> redundant eh?
08:17:32  <Alberth> new improved shiny box car :p
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08:18:20  <Alberth> if people are too stupid to read the stats, the name won't matter either :)
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10:50:24  <TrueBrain> why are we so inconsistent in Windows stuff .... the project files are x64 or Win32, but openttd-useful is win64 and win32
10:50:37  <TrueBrain> how can I script stuff efficiently if people keep doing this? :D
10:54:43  <__ln__> remove people from the equation
10:56:51  <TrueBrain> Trump is already taking care of that
10:56:56  <TrueBrain> (easy troll is easy :P)
10:59:25  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that's the Windows way... after all, system32 is 64 bits and syswow64 is 32 bits
10:59:49  <TrueBrain> we did not made it better by also not following one way :)
11:00:10  <Rubidium> sorry about that?
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11:00:19  <TrueBrain> YOU SHOULD BE SORRY :P
11:00:20  <TrueBrain> hihi
11:00:22  <TrueBrain> :)
11:00:55  <TrueBrain> hmm .. for some reason cl.exe is out hiding again now
11:01:15  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: SORRY
11:01:33  <TrueBrain> hi andy :)
11:03:03  <TrueBrain> I love how PowerShell sometimes mimics Linux .. but not just
11:03:06  <TrueBrain> you can do rm -rf
11:03:18  <TrueBrain> but the f can be filter or force, so you have to specify which you mean
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11:05:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i love how microsoft recently turned into the "extend" phase of .net... like they made this nice new cross-compatible standard, that is missing a lot from the old standard. and then they went "oh we have this shiny new compatibility library that contains all the missing stuff, but it'll be windows-only"
11:05:47  <TrueBrain> lol
11:05:48  <andythenorth> I love trains
11:06:03  <andythenorth> V453000: such trees
11:06:14  <TrueBrain> this andy, always derailing the conversation :P
11:07:58  <TrueBrain> so many bugs in the Docker for Windows mount system ..
11:08:10  <TrueBrain> svnversion works in subdirectories of the mount .. but not in the root of the mount ..
11:08:54  <TrueBrain> so how am I going to tell MSBuild about this shiny include directory I have in store for him ...
11:13:43  <TrueBrain> every answer comes down to: by modifying the project files
11:13:46  <TrueBrain> I mean, come onnnnnn
11:20:22  <TrueBrain> so you can set INCLUDE in the env
11:20:29  <TrueBrain> you have to set useenv=true too
11:20:38  <TrueBrain> but then it can no longer find cl.exe
11:20:51  <TrueBrain> as it is not in the PATH of the ENV .. and all of a sudden it becomes stupid, and doesn't resolve it himself ...
11:20:53  <TrueBrain> uuugggghhhh
11:21:00  <TrueBrain> I hate undocumented unclear shit
11:21:08  <andythenorth> :|
11:21:42  <TrueBrain> it normally overwrites the env .. UseEnv prevents it ...
11:21:47  <TrueBrain> why doesn't it ADD to them?! :(
11:23:14  <TrueBrain> guess it is easier to find the include path of VS, and drop the files in there
11:23:19  <TrueBrain> which is a nasty workaround ...
11:23:24  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how did you solve that for CF?
11:27:34  <Rubidium> probably a global setting in an antique version of MSVC
11:28:48  <TrueBrain> I cannot believe I am stuck on something this trivial :D
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11:32:21  <andythenorth> wow, so many wagons I could add
11:32:37  <andythenorth> 32 types eh
11:32:40  <andythenorth> all the way to FF
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11:43:15  <TrueBrain> I love how everyone keeps telling me I have to open something in the interface .. this is a Docker running a headless windows ... ffs :P
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11:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: have you tried clicking on "Start"?
11:56:46  * andythenorth has 99 wagons to draw :|
11:57:02  <andythenorth> multiple generations suck :P
12:02:22  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you're done, can you start with the 1000-ish missing vehicles from CETS? :p
12:03:25  <Alberth> or do something in the 1000 building set :p
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12:09:31  <TrueBrain> even the develop console doesn't want to work :P Lol
12:09:31  <Wolf01> Moin
12:16:53  <TrueBrain> finally I managed to inject my own include path ...
12:16:54  <TrueBrain> omg
12:21:12  <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh hey, did i screw up my VS version detection? i (obviously) didn't test it myself, but was assured that the version of VS i set would have it
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12:22:16  <LordAro> and why are both of the projects i work with active today
12:22:20  <TrueBrain> LordAro: it turns out it has it, but not out of the box :)
12:22:25  <LordAro> i've only got so much time!
12:22:33  <TrueBrain> fallthrough is part of the stdc++latest, for what-ever-reason
12:22:33  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ah, of course
12:22:37  <TrueBrain> the default is stdc++14
12:22:41  <TrueBrain> so the project needs to be switched
12:22:47  <TrueBrain> but there are no project files to switch :D
12:22:55  <TrueBrain> not sure if you can detect that tbh, from code
12:22:57  <LordAro> i guess that's technically more correct than gcc/clang
12:23:07  <LordAro> irritating tho
12:23:10  <TrueBrain> specs say it should be part of stdc++11
12:23:14  <TrueBrain> but ... VS2017 is weird
12:23:19  <LordAro> ...oh
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12:23:23  <LordAro> frosch123: quak
12:23:27  <Alberth> was VS ever sane?
12:23:29  <TrueBrain> down to 6 warnings and 5 errors
12:23:41  <TrueBrain> genworld_gui.cpp does bitshifts VS2017 doesnt agree with (or warn for)
12:23:50  <LordAro> TrueBrain: sure? seems to suggest otherwise
12:23:51  <TrueBrain> and sse4 files are giving errors
12:23:57  <LordAro> but w/e
12:24:27  <TrueBrain> LordAro: owh, lol .. yesterday a page suggested C++11 .. but I might have been blind
12:24:32  <TrueBrain> then it is even more obvious :D
12:24:57  <TrueBrain> so we either need a project file with stdc++latest flipped on, or we need a patch to fix stdc++14 :)
12:25:02  <TrueBrain> (or VS2017)
12:25:04  <TrueBrain> so many options! :D
12:25:17  <TrueBrain> _mm_cvtsi64_si128, identifier not found
12:25:29  <TrueBrain> might have been fixed btw, I had to downgrade a few versions :)
12:25:34  <TrueBrain> but I am getting somewhere!
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12:47:02  <TrueBrain> yesssss, it finally compiles automated .. give or take a few errors I still need to resolve :D
12:47:35  <TrueBrain> viewport_sprite_sorter_sse4: negative subscript
12:47:36  <TrueBrain> oh-oh :D
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13:01:41  <LordAro> TrueBrain: woo
13:01:50  <TrueBrain> the wind is blowing?
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13:02:44  <ChoHag> How can I deal with the problem of there being more passengers waiting in a town's stations than there are people living in the town?
13:02:59  <ChoHag> Apart from just shipping them around more efficiently, obviously.
13:07:02  <frosch123> LordAro: which msvc version supports static_assert?
13:09:11  <LordAro> frosch123: without looking, probably 2013ish?
13:09:48  <LordAro> 2010, according to
13:10:10  <frosch123> which _MSC_VER is that? :p
13:11:16  <frosch123> let's guess 1900
13:19:00  <LordAro> 1600
13:19:08  <LordAro>
13:19:39  <frosch123> what douchebag wrote the sse code?
13:20:08  <frosch123> #undef and #define the same thing differently in various headerfiles, seriously?
13:31:36  <Wolf01> Mmmh, how could I sync data between multiple devices without a server? And I also need to delete that data after all the devices synced, not just after the first one
13:32:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the cloud!
13:32:51  <Wolf01> It's already in the cloud
13:35:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27916 /trunk/src (stdafx.h viewport_sprite_sorter.h) (2017-09-24 15:35:27 +0200 )
13:35:36  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Enable usage of static_assert for MSVC
13:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't understand the question
13:37:42  <Wolf01> I can't put the whole database in the cloud because there is a 100kb limit, each device could edit the entries and add new ones
13:38:24  <ChoHag> You know there's no _actual_ difference between "cloud", "device" and "server", right?
13:38:26  <Wolf01> I thought to put the edited/added entries on the clod and the other devices would get them
13:38:53  <Wolf01> ChoHag: please don't give me lessons about IT
13:39:10  <ChoHag> Hey I'm not the one that can't run rsync.
13:40:14  <Wolf01> I'm trying to solve a problem, and I don't need to lose myself into dialectical exercises
13:42:43  <ChoHag> Wow you're clearly too clever for the likes of me.
13:42:45  <ChoHag> Best of luck.
13:43:05  <Wolf01> Fine
13:43:08  <ChoHag> Long words and *everything*...
13:43:15  <Wolf01> Please, stop
13:43:32  <ChoHag> Do you now like being belittled? Then don't be arrogant.
13:43:49  <ChoHag> (See I know fancy smart-sounding words too!)
13:43:54  <Wolf01> I don't want to get picky, and I could be really picky
13:44:32  <ChoHag> The word you're looking for is "pedantic".
13:44:57  <ChoHag> Also "rsync".
13:44:59  <Wolf01> One less to read
13:45:20  <ChoHag> Oh noes! Am I being /ignored?
13:45:27  <ChoHag> However will I cope?
13:46:07  <ChoHag> I *need* people who can't shift bits around on a network to listen to my sarcastic blatherings!
13:46:51  <Wolf01> Eddi, any idea?
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14:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: so you don't have enough space in the server, and want to keep the updates around as short as possible?
14:03:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: do you know how many clients there are?
14:04:29  <Wolf01> Yes, there's a policy of 100kb per application, I could submit even 10MB of data but it won't be synced until it drops under 100kb, so I need to keep it as small as possible
14:04:47  <Wolf01> No, I don't know how many devices there are
14:05:36  <Wolf01> And the sync happens automatically, I just need to write something in the local storage
14:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause> but it needs to be in the local storage long enough that the other devices notice the update?
14:06:39  <Wolf01> Yes
14:07:07  <Eddi|zuHause> what happens if devices get temporarily disconnected?
14:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause> or new devices appear?
14:07:29  <Wolf01> That's the point, I don't even know if the other devices are connected
14:08:33  <Wolf01> The new devices only get the new elements, but I'm thinking about doing a full sync via file
14:08:44  <supermop_home> bus route A takes 60 days, and B takes 90
14:09:07  <supermop_home> wonder if I should have them each on 15 day interval, separated by 5
14:09:11  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should do something like git versioning?
14:09:14  <supermop_home> or 30 days separated by 15
14:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause> each change gets a hash that builds upon a previous hash
14:10:03  <supermop_home> the 30 days would make it easier to scale to 10 days separated by 5
14:10:03  <Wolf01> A sort of incremental sync?
14:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:10:35  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how many generations in CETS? :P
14:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: design goal was one every 10 years
14:10:58  <supermop_home> also route A is already yellow in cargo flow graph, where as B is dark green
14:11:01  <andythenorth> and how many classes of wagon?
14:11:51  <Wolf01> The problem is to avoid the build up of incremental changes, I already noticed that with about 15 changes I fill up the 100kb
14:12:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: about 3-4 passenger classes and some freight classes
14:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you should keep the last X changes around in 50kb (roll out the newest change by deleting the oldest)
14:13:40  <Wolf01> Maybe I could do a timeout thing, the changes older than "ver - 10" will be automatically deleted, and the devices which find a mismatch with their "ver" ask for a full sync via file instead
14:13:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: and keep the other 50kb available for special requests if a device "missed" some changes
14:14:34  <Wolf01> Yes, I think I'll try this way
14:14:45  <Wolf01> +1
14:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause> so the request would work like: device A notices it is too far behind the latest sync, and puts its current hash there
14:16:41  <Eddi|zuHause> device B reads the hash, compiles X updates from this hash towards the "future" and puts them in the remaining 50kb
14:17:09  <Eddi|zuHause> device A reads these special updates, and replaces its "request-hash" with the now newest
14:17:14  <Eddi|zuHause> repeat until up-to-date
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14:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause> if device C also notices it's not up-to-date it must wait until this process is finished
14:19:32  * andythenorth has about 20 wagon classes right now
14:19:46  <andythenorth> with FIRS cargos, it’s not implausible to have more
14:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the passenger classes are commuter, normal, accelerated and express
14:22:33  <andythenorth> any mail classes?
14:22:34  <andythenorth>  o_O
14:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause> they come with mail cars which can also load valuables and express
14:23:28  <Eddi|zuHause> and for other cargos there are box, open, flat, liquid and some specialized (e.g. livestock)
14:23:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i probably forgot some
14:24:26  <Wolf01> I think I understood the logic, but it seem to work better with a SOAP/REST infrastructure, I should try it with the local storage, as I don't want to write many requests back and forth, I can't control what happen inside it and I don't think there's a way to pause it (without exceeding the quota)
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14:47:12  * andythenorth wonders whether to do one wagon class per FIRS cargo type
14:47:15  <andythenorth> that would be 64
14:49:41  <frosch123> anti nuts :p no refittability by order
14:54:29  <Wolf01> Mmmh, you bake a cake in the oven, but what do you do if the cake is a cold one? Still bake?
14:54:50  <supermop_home> you want the cake to be cold?
14:55:17  <supermop_home> let it cool down after it comes out of the oven
14:55:21  <Wolf01> A cake which goes in the fridge and not in the oven, like a cream cake
14:55:38  <supermop_home> the cake part still gets baked
14:55:54  <supermop_home> then when it cools off, you add the other parts
14:55:58  <Wolf01> Ok, but how do you call the process of making that kind of cake?
14:55:59  <supermop_home> then put it in fridge
14:56:12  <supermop_home> I would still say baking in english
14:56:26  <supermop_home> but pastry chefs may have more specific jargon
14:57:01  <supermop_home> could say 'prepare'
14:57:09  <Wolf01> Mmmh
15:00:27  <Wolf01> Yes, it's the same in italian, I think I just choose the wrong example for my exercise, difficult to find the right words to explain the procedure
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15:08:29  <frosch123> how fitting, the only cake of that type i know is called "cold dog" :p
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15:14:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood what dogs have to do with it
15:14:36  <frosch123> i guess they are equally cold and sticky
15:14:54  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the only reason why that is "only" a cold preparation is because you get the cookies pre-baked
15:15:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also get pre-baked cake bases, and just fit them with fruits and stuff
15:16:02  <frosch123> hmm, cake without prebaked stuff
15:16:18  <Wolf01> You don't have ice cream cakes in Germany?
15:16:44  <frosch123> there are fried things with ice inside
15:16:51  <frosch123> *fryed?
15:16:51  <Wolf01> Wat
15:16:59  <frosch123> well, not easy to make :p
15:17:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have seen ice-cakes
15:17:20  <Wolf01> I mean something like the Viennetta
15:17:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but you wouldn't associate that with "baking"
15:18:01  <Wolf01> Eh, neither do I, but you still say "I'm going to bake a cake"
15:18:09  <frosch123> i would never consider vienetta a cake :p
15:18:17  <frosch123> it's just ice with chocolate
15:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause> ice-cakes aren't technically cakes in this sense
15:19:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so you wouldn't call preparing an ice cake "baking"
15:19:19  <Wolf01> We also have a fruit juice / yogurt type of cake where even the biscuit part is not baked, you just put everything in the fridge and wait
15:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's funny because "biscuit" literally means "twice baked"
15:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, in german you also have sort of a distinction between "Kuchen" (something that is prepared and then baked) and "Torte" (something that is baked and then prepared)
15:24:49  <Eddi|zuHause> like you would make "Erdbeertorte" by baking the base, then putting the strawberries on (and some gelatine stuff). while you make "Apfelkuchen" by preparing the base, putting the apples and some covering on top, and then bake the whole thing
15:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause> (those are two "entry level" cakes you could do without studying the craft for ages :p)
15:26:27  <frosch123> i baked various things, but never those :p
15:31:38  <Wolf01> Ok, to avoid problems I call the methods "TestCakeA" and "TestCakeB" :D
15:34:25  <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of Outpost, where the materials were called "Metal1", "Mineral2" or so, instead of real materials
15:36:27  <frosch123> outpost 1 was hilariously unfinished
15:36:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause> was very frustrating when the manual talked about game features that were nowhere to be found
15:37:28  <Wolf01> It's more like the movies scripts where the script authors don't know the weird things and often use "technobabble" or something like it
15:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "sir, the tech is overteching"
15:38:49  <Wolf01> Yeah, for example: "A specialised form of technobabble known as treknobabble (and listed in scripts simply as '[TECH]') was devised for the various long-running Star Trek television programs and movies, which relied upon quasi-scientific solutions to dramatic problems"
15:38:57  <Eddi|zuHause> the difference between those and outpost was, that outpost didn't go through the finishing steps
15:39:26  <Wolf01> andythenorth should do a set with "cargo 1, cargo 2, raw material 5"
15:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause> where the real science would be put in
15:53:53  <andythenorth> Wolf01: 'fridge cake’
15:54:00  <andythenorth> official UK term :P
15:55:02  * andythenorth thinks the 64 wagon classes idea fails
15:55:14  <andythenorth> only so many ways to arrange pixels in a 4/8 length
15:56:43  <Wolf01> :D
16:00:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27917 /trunk/projects (14 files) (2017-09-24 18:00:29 +0200 )
16:00:36  <DorpsGek> -Add: MSVC 2017 project file generator. Most noticeable, std:c++latest is enabled.
16:02:02  <frosch123> ^^ if anyone can test that :p
16:03:58  <Wolf01> Sure
16:04:37  <frosch123> hmm, oh, so it is actually 141, not 150?
16:04:52  <Wolf01> Yes, 141 -> 2017
16:04:53  <frosch123> why do they have 3 different version numbers ...
16:05:11  <Wolf01> Because now it only changes the sdk
16:06:18  <Wolf01> It's missing the solution anyway
16:09:53  <frosch123> oh, actually not all files are subject to generation
16:12:06  <Wolf01> supermop_home, is that you?
16:19:34  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27918 /trunk/projects (33 files) (2017-09-24 18:19:29 +0200 )
16:19:35  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27917): Next attempt for MSVC 2017
16:19:44  <frosch123> now with sln
16:22:43  <Wolf01> Compiles and runs fine
16:22:59  <frosch123> do you have sse4?
16:24:22  <Wolf01> Dunno, maybe, I have a i7 5820k, it should support that set
16:25:09  <frosch123> well, then tb has to figure out what's wrong with the farm
16:28:17  <Wolf01> I was thinking if it would be possible to change the ///< doxygen comments to something else, I know that for doxygen they have a specific meaning, but VS is bitching about invalid xml (because it thinks the < opens a tag there, as /// is used for xml documentation)
16:28:35  <frosch123> /!< or ///<
16:28:39  <frosch123>  //!< or ///<
16:28:44  <frosch123> those are the two options
16:29:48  <Wolf01> //!< should work, I'll see "ENUM_VALUE !< description" but always better than "you can't have a space there"
16:30:49  <Wolf01> Maybe I'll make a branch on my github fork for that
16:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's pretty much like i expected... there are 5 "winners" and only one "loser"
16:36:23  <frosch123> well, for a start: the difference to last time do not sum up to zero
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16:51:59  <Wolf01> Mmmh The Dig on steam but the classic version, no hd remake like Grim Fandango :(
16:53:07  <Wolf01> Ok, got to go, BBL
17:09:09  <andythenorth> 5/8 would be a stupid length choice for wagons eh
17:09:38  <frosch123> 6/8+5/8+5/8 :)
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17:12:53  <andythenorth> works nice for 1 tile train yes
17:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: must be voter fraud :p
17:26:09  <andythenorth> 2 kinds of hopper wagon?
17:26:12  <andythenorth>
17:26:15  <andythenorth>
17:26:20  <andythenorth> how much variety is too much?
17:27:41  <Eddi|zuHause> none. there should be exactly 1 vehicle in the set that does everything!!!
17:28:27  <andythenorth> not convinced :P
17:29:05  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the difference between the two? (on pixel level)
17:29:12  <andythenorth> a small amount
17:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> just use them for 2 generations?
17:31:56  <andythenorth> one is coal cargos
17:31:59  <andythenorth> one is quarry cargos
17:32:01  <andythenorth> IRL
17:32:04  * andythenorth knows too much
17:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not really a difference useful to show in the game
17:34:12  <andythenorth> it might only make sense if I pursue the ‘wagons for specific cargos’ route further
17:34:28  <andythenorth> so ‘stone and sand wagon’ rather than 'hopper'
17:34:37  <andythenorth> ‘coal and coke wagon’
17:34:43  <andythenorth> not sure it scales well :P
17:35:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it collides with future unknown industry set compatibility
17:35:34  <andythenorth> it’s also clunky to find the names
17:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and autorefit networks
17:35:41  <andythenorth> there is no need for total separation
17:35:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27919 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2017-09-24 19:35:51 +0200 )
17:35:59  <DorpsGek> -Fix: MSVC 2015 and 2017 project files referenced some MSVC 2010 files
17:38:09  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27920 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2017-09-24 19:38:03 +0200 )
17:38:10  <DorpsGek> -Fix: MSVC 2015 and 2017 project files referenced some MSVC 2010 files
17:38:16  * andythenorth wonders if Europe has different wagons for coal / aggregates
17:39:16  <andythenorth> ha 8/8 two wagons :P
17:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of different wagons going around europe, surely
17:50:56  <andythenorth> loads
17:53:20  <andythenorth> coal hoppers seem to tend to
17:53:28  <andythenorth> and other hoppers to
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17:53:48  <andythenorth> coal is low density
17:54:09  <andythenorth> dump trucks have same, coal haulers have higher sides than stone haulers (for same chassis arrangement)
17:54:45  <andythenorth> not sure how I’d name them in game though
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17:56:27  <andythenorth> “Lightweight Hopper Car"
17:56:33  <andythenorth> “Strong Hopper Car” :P
18:29:49  <andythenorth> maybe coal is ubiquitous enough to just have a “Coal Car"
18:29:55  <andythenorth> I already did that for Wood
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19:13:38  <andythenorth> untidy train formation
19:13:49  <andythenorth> probably needed integer length at the station :P
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19:37:18  <Wolf01> So in Germany won the civil world again
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20:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause> if by "win" you mean "on the brink of total collapse", then yes
20:21:34  <Wolf01> Bah, I don't think so, you preferred the extreme right wing?
20:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> no
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20:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but if you look at it a little bit deeper, the parlamentary politics over the past 70 years worked like this: there are two opposing large parties, and one of them picked a small party and formed the government with it. but then there appeared more and more small parties, so that neither of the large parties could form a working government. then the two large parties made a common government, which even further accelerated this erosion
20:24:11  <Eddi|zuHause> of the large parties
20:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> over the past 20-ish years that erosion was quicker on the left, and in the past 5-ish years it took up speed on the right
20:26:16  <Eddi|zuHause> now we're facing (probably) the first 3-party government on the federal level
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20:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause> or 3.5, if you count the bavarian anomaly called "CSU"
20:26:55  <Wolf01> Here is even worse, we can continue as we are, give the country to the right wing or to the party which doesn't even know how politics work and hurt themselves in confusion (like pokemon), also we have a lot of little parties which are there only to make confusion... and the left wing is no more
20:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> some of those parties with deep ideological differences
20:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: just a figure to underline this erosion: the two parties that formed the government got 80% of the votes in 2013, and now they got 55%
20:36:29  <Eddi|zuHause> (roughly)
20:38:49  <Wolf01> I don't think we saw numbers over 45% on the last 20 years
20:56:39  <supermop_> what the hell kind of resolution is 1670 px wide
21:01:14  <FLHerne> 1680x1050 is a thing
21:01:47  <FLHerne> Maybe lose 5px on each side for underscanning or bezels or window borders or [...]
21:02:00  <FLHerne> (did I miss some context?)
21:14:55  <supermop_> project photos we got from a photograPHER
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21:37:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, 2013 had an exceptional number of "others" (<5%), so with 70% of the votes you got 80% of the seats (-ish)
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