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Log for #openttd on 7th November 2017:
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01:53:22  <ST2> ok, Samu is gone ^^
01:53:40  <ST2> supermop: still about the oilfields
01:53:54  <ST2> had you measure an idea on it?
01:55:37  <ST2> because the W10 after 1709 update issues are spreading: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=77042&start=40#p1193856
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06:47:13  <PressureLine> blech
06:47:49  <PressureLine> I just cannot get the amount of industries on a map right
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07:23:57  <PressureLine> Setting: Industry Density: Set how many industries should be generated ***and what level should be maintained during the game***
07:25:44  <PressureLine> if I set to LOW during world generation, but as soon as the game starts go to VERY LOW, industries will shut down, and there will be no corresponding new industry built until the 'very low' level is reached?
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11:57:48  <__ln__> https://www.bahn.de/micro/view/schnellfahrstrecke/index.shtml
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13:15:37  <Samu> hi
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13:42:30  <Samu> woah, andythenorth was quite severe here: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6312?string=depot&project=1&search_name=&type%5B0%5D=&sev%5B0%5D=&pri%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=open&percent%5B0%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
13:50:04  <V453000> gg
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14:40:56  <supermop> yo
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14:42:14  <V453000> no yo
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15:08:12  <Alberth> o/
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15:43:10  <Samu> i have a bug https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6636
15:43:11  <Samu> 1.7.1
15:43:45  <Samu> peter1138: !!
15:43:55  <Samu> you're the bug guy
15:44:03  <Samu> aren't you?
15:44:32  <Alberth> nice bug :)
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15:56:31  <Samu> i got a fix, but i know u guys always find troubles with my fixes
15:56:43  <Samu> hmm do i post patch?
16:14:33  <Samu> posted
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16:28:17  <Samu> STR_ERROR_CAN_T_COPY_SHARE_ORDER
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18:18:19  <Eddi|zuHause> https://mobile.twitter.com/gravislizard/status/927593460642615296
18:23:06  <Samu> i have no idea how twitter worls
18:23:09  <Samu> works
18:23:52  <Samu> i see a bunch of comments, but it doesn't appear they're answers to each other, I don't get it
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18:41:48  <Wolf01> Moin
18:42:04  <frosch123> ciao
18:42:27  <Wolf01> Holy shit the IDE I use is MSAccess on steroids
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18:44:21  <Wolf01> It's a cross breed between access, vba, mysql, and gamemaker all thrown over VS2008
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18:54:58  <Wolf01> http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steamcommunity/public/images/clans/10546736/76c36cfd99aea502d1dffcff7dd5fd5c7e8257b2.png wow... you could fit the entire base on one of these rovers
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19:30:08  <andythenorth> o/
19:30:10  <Samu> damn parenthesis
19:30:12  <Samu> hi andythenorth
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19:31:43  <Wolf01> o/
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19:41:32  <Samu> i found a bug when reviewing vehicle orders
19:42:38  <Wolf01> It's a feature
19:43:51  <Samu> nah
19:44:25  <Samu> it's about displaying the message "aircraft has in its orders an airport whose runway is too short"
19:44:48  <Samu> if there is only 1 airport that fits that criteria, the message shows up fine
19:44:58  <Samu> but if there are 2
19:45:05  <Samu> it shows another message
19:46:01  <Samu> has an invalid station in its orders
19:46:31  <Samu> the fix is simple
19:46:38  <Samu> (message == INVALID_STRING_ID || 						message == STR_NEWS_PLANE_USES_TOO_SHORT_RUNWAY)
19:48:07  <Samu> here, line 1802 https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/f4cc55fdf952/src/order_cmd.cpp#l1802
19:48:27  <Samu> peter1138: fix plz
19:49:35  <Wolf01> Stop annoying peter plz
19:49:51  <Samu> ok, Wolf01 fix plz
19:54:02  <andythenorth> stop annoying Wolf01 :)
19:55:35  <Wolf01> I think that if there are 2 short airports the double message is right, but it should tell which order (airport name)
19:56:06  <Wolf01> You have the airport, add a param to the string with the name
19:56:41  <andythenorth> RoadTypes :P
19:56:50  * andythenorth playing OpenTTD
19:57:02  <Wolf01> I want roadtypes too :(
19:59:33  <frosch123> road slugs are way more complicated
19:59:46  <Wolf01> http://steamcommunity.com/app/361420/discussions/0/1479857071246787675/ V453000, they are fighting for space snails and slugs, you should do something
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20:00:49  <andythenorth> ButButButGroundTypes
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20:03:46  <andythenorth> Can I rename it Steeltown Rocks?
20:03:49  <andythenorth> probably makes no sense :P
20:04:05  <andythenorth> Steeltown seems ok now, at least not crap
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20:04:53  <frosch123> does that mean no more changes till end of week?
20:04:58  <frosch123> or just till tomorrow?
20:06:46  <andythenorth> I have a few more doubts
20:06:53  <andythenorth> but I need to finish play-testing
20:07:09  <andythenorth> I think it's at a point where more changes are potato/potato
20:10:41  <frosch123> what economy would feature potatoes?
20:11:07  <frosch123> soup economy?
20:12:48  <Wolf01> I was thinking about a spooky world in place of toyland
20:13:17  <frosch123> pumpkin + knife -> goods
20:13:35  <frosch123> pumpkin may be a visually interesting cargo
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20:20:38  <andythenorth> potatoes are Idaho :P
20:20:42  <andythenorth> or Seattle :P
20:20:59  * andythenorth sticking firmly to RL
20:22:40  <frosch123> andythenorth: btw. increasing limit for industry output cargos seems to be kind of easy
20:22:47  <frosch123> way easier than amount of input cargos
20:28:09  <andythenorth> is it wise? o_O
20:28:26  <frosch123> that's the question :)
20:28:47  <frosch123> it's not worth the effort to implement if it won't be used
20:29:38  <andythenorth> working within the constraints forces choices
20:29:38  <andythenorth> but sometimes the imbalance of 3 in, 2 out makes cargo chains...hard
20:29:38  <andythenorth> also does it look like it was ever a design choice?
20:29:38  * andythenorth suspects CS added 2 outputs for farms, and it has been that way ever since
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20:30:37  <andythenorth> on a purely selfish level
20:30:51  <andythenorth> if there's 3 outputs, I'll to rework *everything* in FIRS 4 :P
20:31:14  <andythenorth> what does V453000 think? o_O
20:32:14  <frosch123> i think all yeti industries only have one output
20:32:41  <frosch123> it has sets of industries which accept the same thing and produce different thigns
20:33:29  <frosch123> no idea wheather that is part of the concept
20:35:11  <andythenorth> I could likely patch FIRS so docs show 3 outputs
20:35:18  * andythenorth might try in a bit
20:41:16  <andythenorth> primarilly it would help the port-type industries
20:41:43  <andythenorth> primarily *
20:45:26  <andythenorth> ha also it would really mess up building stations
20:45:30  <andythenorth> 1 dropoff
20:46:04  <andythenorth> 1 pickup per cargo (to avoid flickering station sprites)
20:46:22  <andythenorth> and each pickup serves max 2 routes, because cargodist
20:47:29  <andythenorth> even with TL 5 that's a lot of stations to fit around an industry :D
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21:07:17  <frosch123> why? one or two platforms per cargo are enough
21:07:58  <frosch123> i mean number of platforms depends on total cargo amount
21:08:07  <frosch123> hardly on how many different cargo types there are
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21:12:16  <andythenorth> 3 platforms = 3 stations
21:12:20  <andythenorth> ach
21:12:29  <andythenorth> 3 output cargos = 3 stations :P :)
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21:13:06  <andythenorth> and each station can only serve 2 routes
21:13:29  <frosch123> also, if ratios of output cargos are fixed, it actually makes sense to run mixed trains
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21:15:12  <andythenorth> assuming similar destinations?
21:15:13  <andythenorth> o-O
21:15:32  <andythenorth> mixed cargo pickup causes the flickering cargo-graphics at stations :)
21:15:35  <andythenorth> I dislike it :)
21:16:29  <frosch123> huh? how does mixing cargo affect the flickering?
21:17:15  <andythenorth> e.g. station has goods and supplies waiting
21:17:21  <andythenorth> sometimes more of one than other
21:17:26  <andythenorth> so all tiles change cargo sprite
21:17:29  <andythenorth> then back again
21:17:30  <frosch123> [22:15] <andythenorth> assuming similar destinations? <- it's enough to pass target 1 on the way to target 2
21:17:54  <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean if tiles can display multiple cargos?
21:17:59  <andythenorth> yes
21:18:11  <andythenorth> per CHIPS :)
21:18:29  <frosch123> ach, we should probably fix the station cargo display somewhen
21:19:20  <andythenorth> I've tried to think of a way before :)
21:19:28  <andythenorth> round-robin tiles or something
21:19:34  <andythenorth> I'm sure Eddi|zuHause has a suggestion or two
21:19:44  <andythenorth> I just accepted it as an artefact of the game tbh :)
21:20:28  <andythenorth> not everything needs fixed :)
21:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> hare-niemeyer :p
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21:30:11  <V453000> andythenorth: I haz opinions?
21:30:36  <frosch123> V453000: are industries with more than 2 output cargos interesting?
21:30:45  <V453000> I think it could be, definitely yes
21:30:54  <frosch123> yeti seems to always have one
21:31:05  <V453000> depends on parameters
21:31:12  <V453000> with tired yetis it's almost always 2
21:31:38  <V453000> I think there was a point when the 2 was a real limiter on something
21:31:54  <V453000> some worker yard concept with tired yetis or something, can't remember exactly
21:32:23  <V453000> but overall being able to define 3 cargoes I think could lead to some interesting points
21:32:29  <frosch123> anyway, origin was: input cargo limit is hard; output cargo limit can be lifted
21:34:32  <V453000> having to deliver more things can easily be forced by making an industry chain from one to another basically :)
21:34:43  <V453000> or similar
21:35:01  <V453000> I guess getting more products kind of as well
21:35:31  <frosch123> not quite
21:35:52  <frosch123> 1) single industry servicing more cargos has different space restrictions
21:36:11  <frosch123> 2) single industry producing multiple things controls the ratio of the produced cargos
21:36:25  <V453000> yeah of course, not exactly the same
21:36:41  <frosch123> while stockpiles are considered bad, there are no ratios for input cargos
21:37:57  <V453000> I might have even had some YETI plan which required more extra industries because I could only have 2 cargoes per industry
21:38:00  <V453000> would have to revisit
21:38:32  <V453000> basically I think I wanted some things to produce recyclables as a side product
21:38:48  <V453000> and mos of them already have cargo + tired yetis
21:39:13  <V453000> btw can the industry production mechanism be non-linear?
21:39:36  <frosch123> you can already define whatever function you like
21:39:46  <V453000> aka if I would have 1 YETI mine, it would produce less in total than 2 YETI mines, assuming I deliver same amount of supplies to them in total/
21:39:51  <V453000> right, is what I thought
21:43:25  <frosch123> also, since andy wasn't aware either; industries within a town can communicate with each other
21:44:46  <supermop> power
21:45:11  <frosch123> industries could improve production if a higher percentage of industries are serviced in a town
21:46:10  <V453000> :0
21:46:21  <V453000> never heard of that
21:46:23  <frosch123> supermop: yeti's worker-mechanic is essentially power, just with gameplay-impact by having to transport it
21:46:47  <frosch123> V453000: was implemented years ago, was never used
21:47:02  <frosch123> then was forgotten :)
21:47:32  <V453000> interesting
21:48:27  <V453000> well for now I will try to focus myself on trains
21:48:35  <V453000> but one day YETI2 is definitely a good idea
21:49:04  <V453000> the whole 128frame animation of YETI is a really dumb concept, and being more modular like FIRS is simply superior, too
21:49:29  <V453000> there could be some base with unique shapes, but most of it should the industries should be modular
21:49:31  <frosch123> i am currently trying to hack a draft version for long vehicles, to check at which length it gets really silly and broken in curves and on hills
21:49:40  <V453000> haha :D
21:49:42  <V453000> very interesting
21:49:58  <V453000> I basically procrastinated on train set by making PURR in the last week ._.
21:50:14  <frosch123> if a vehicle is longer than a /\ hill, the vehicle will essentially go through the hill
21:50:25  <V453000> :D right
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21:51:28  <frosch123> also vehicle scaling will be even more broken
21:51:52  <V453000> you mean the distortion at vertical and side views?
21:51:55  <frosch123> vehicles become shorter in sharp turns
21:52:31  <frosch123> the vehicle ends follow the curves, but the connecting vehicle is the bird-distance between ends
21:52:55  <frosch123> so the more you complete a circle in the curve, the shorter the vehicle gets
21:53:16  <frosch123> it's the most extreme for road vehicle
21:53:27  <frosch123> when they reverse the articulated parts pass each other next to each other
21:53:47  <frosch123> so the vehicle shortens from any length to the distance between drive lanes :p
21:54:32  <V453000> :D :D
21:54:44  <V453000> sounds pretty fucked up
21:54:49  <V453000> curious to see that :D
21:55:16  <V453000> REVERSER SLUG: Vehicle reverses inside of the rail back and forth in a spiral.
21:56:19  <frosch123> as long as you don't reverse by turning it inside-out
21:56:57  <V453000> also that
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21:57:07  <V453000> 5D slug
21:57:12  <V453000> 128bpp
21:58:06  <frosch123> be careful with higher dimensions, round things become spiky
21:58:31  <V453000> Hi I am a reverser slug, my name is Spike
21:58:32  <V453000> easy
22:00:36  <frosch123> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mceaM2_zQd8 <- in case you want to deal with the math of higher-dimension spheres
22:10:21  <supermop> is there a fst way to un-vignette an image in photoshop?
22:11:15  <frosch123> no idea what that means, sounds like auto-crop
22:16:26  <andythenorth> frosch123: 3 output cargos can always be done....later, eh? :)
22:17:08  <andythenorth> presumably there's a lot of of newgrf patching?
22:19:29  <supermop> depending on lens you use, espesically in old cameras, the edges of the photo are darker than the center. PS and other programs let you add this artificially, for like portraits
22:19:43  <supermop> but what i want is the opposite, to even out the brightness
22:21:29  <andythenorth> hmm mostly industry vars, only cb 37 and cb 14C
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22:22:27  <andythenorth> but quite a number of vars
22:22:46  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:56:15  <andythenorth> bed
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