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Log for #openttd on 9th December 2017:
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09:19:56  <Wolf01> Moin
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13:03:01  <drac_boy> been quite a while since I had to stop working for other reasons .. but anyway with re slowly getting back into it I realize there seem to be some things I can't figure out ... first thing is for an universal industry grf is it a max of 37 types or am I wrong?
13:03:15  <drac_boy> (somehow the wiki doesn't seem to say anything)
13:13:25  <frosch123> if "universal" also means ttdp, then yes 37
13:13:30  <frosch123> same amount as original industries
13:14:53  <drac_boy> thanks. I presume ottd-only is nearly unlimited except for user stress at trying to find anything right? ;)
13:15:41  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries <- that lists the limits at the top
13:16:32  <drac_boy> oh ops...I thought I already looked at action0 at night .. maybe I should had slept a bit first
13:16:40  <drac_boy> ty :">
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13:22:07  <drac_boy> other thing I'm curious about does the large=yes airplane thing only take effect if disaster is enabled or it always can happen anytime one way or another? (re land a big airbus at the small airport heh..)
13:22:39  * drac_boy is inclined to think so but want to check :)
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13:30:14  <frosch123> there is one setting to disable aircraft crashes, and there is a cheat to disable distinction between small and large
13:30:33  <frosch123> i can't remember whether the former also implies the latter
13:32:15  <drac_boy> hmm I'll look for that setting myself then..can't be hard :)
13:32:16  <drac_boy> ty
13:35:30  <drac_boy> hm well I guess thats the only two things I wasn't too sure about for now, cheers frosch
13:35:40  * drac_boy thankfully kept a lot of my notes
13:36:10  * drac_boy is going to have to look up any particular ottd 2017-new-features just for fun too
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13:38:21  <drac_boy> anyway going off for a bit now .. will see if am back later on with any more 'restart' issues
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13:52:53  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think the two are completely orthogonal
13:53:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so you can have random crashes without large aircraft crashes and the other way around
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14:55:03  <Wolf01> andythenorth: F took back the scene, now there are artillery trains.
15:10:58  <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a3MXbv3_460s.jpg lol
15:21:51  <Samu> what does that do?
15:21:57  <Samu> try /catch?
15:24:12  <Wolf01> http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Beginning-Programming-For-Dummies-4th-Edition.productCd-0470088702.html
15:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'm a bit beyond that phase
15:26:05  <andythenorth> hi
15:37:37  <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern#Classification_and_list <- just learn that list and train to use one of those terms in every second sentence
15:38:24  <Wolf01> :D
15:38:45  <Wolf01> I ahould finish my c# design patterns project
15:38:48  <Wolf01> *shoudt
15:38:52  <Wolf01> *should too
15:39:49  <frosch123> the second step is to recognise haskell users, and then switching to making fun of patterns which are superfluous when using a proper language
15:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause> most of the patterns are superfluous, because they are often about glue code that would be avoidable if one designed it properly in the first place
15:43:16  <supermop> yo andy
15:43:40  <supermop> found a copy of industrial landscapes at a used bookstore
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16:01:45  <Wolf01> [16:39:51] <frosch123> the second step is to recognise haskell users, and then switching to making fun of patterns which are superfluous when using a proper language <- something which just hides the same concept to the developer?
16:02:31  <Wolf01> I should try if I'm able to play diablo 3 while watching netflix
16:02:43  <Wolf01> Or better, if my connection could handle it
16:04:02  <Wolf01> Nice, not even a bit of lag
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16:49:54  <andythenorth> supermop: winning
16:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: sounds like a situation that should be handled by buffering (netflix) and traffic shaping (game)
16:56:17  <Eddi|zuHause> so the router tries to prioritize "interactive" packets (game), while netflix should buffer enough to counteract any jitter on the incoming traffic
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17:19:33  <michi_cc> Anyone with Windows < 10 like to test http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/maybe_fix_mouse_win10.diff ?
17:20:40  <michi_cc> It does fix right click scrolling on win 10 FCU and should hopefully not degrade lagging behaviour
17:21:10  <michi_cc> frosch123: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/maybe_fix_mouse_win10.diff has an unrelated hunk for a commit of yours. MSVC complains that -uint might not do what you want. Was this intended or not?
17:22:15  <frosch123> the width thing?
17:22:43  <frosch123> it's supposed to be signed
17:24:00  <michi_cc> so casting first should be the "right thing", just in case there's a C compiler not using two's complement :)
17:24:22  <andythenorth> grr
17:24:30  <andythenorth> usually my Tanks ping is ~60 max
17:24:37  <andythenorth> today spiking to 6000
17:25:25  <peter1138> michi_cc, I'll see if I can test it on my Windows 7 netbook. Might take a while, it's sloooow.
17:28:25  <michi_cc> peter1138: Thanks.
17:28:56  <michi_cc> Most interesting would also be Win 95 (for those die-hard fans :)
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17:29:57  <peter1138> Nothing that old. Got a VM? :p
17:31:51  <michi_cc> Not anymore :p
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17:42:03  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> today spiking to 6000 <- welcome to the club
17:42:18  <andythenorth> innit :)
17:42:47  <Wolf01> Ok, played enough diablo 3 today
17:43:28  <peter1138> Hmm, how do I make a playable build from VS?
17:44:16  <Wolf01> Ha
17:44:29  <peter1138> I can run it from within VS but I need to copy it over to the netbook
17:46:54  <Wolf01> Does the "publish" thing works?
17:47:36  <michi_cc> peter1138: Copy the bin folder + objs/x64|win32/openttd.exe
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17:52:04  <andythenorth> I kind of want to do some FIRS
17:52:07  <andythenorth> but eh
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18:02:40  <peter1138> Hmm, waiting for my netbook to install... mouse drivers... o_O
18:03:28  <peter1138> Still, it's slow enough to actually trigger event queueing quite easily :p
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18:04:00  <peter1138> Touchpad scroll seems to work fine.
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18:05:07  * andythenorth wonders about controlling industry placement
18:05:08  <andythenorth> more
18:05:10  <andythenorth> dunno
18:05:55  <peter1138> Mouse still not done.
18:10:09  <peter1138> Still not done.
18:10:26  <peter1138> I wonder if it's *writing* the driver...
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18:19:44  <Wolf01> It's discovering the "language" then it will write the driver and compile it
18:29:18  <Rubidium> well, if you can beat the best chess player in a few hours you can become a mediocre mouse device driver creator in only a few minutes, so it must be teaching itself to make a mouse driver
18:30:59  <Wolf01> Or make a mouse driver by using the chess rules... jumps like a knight
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18:39:09  <peter1138> Maybe that explains the new behaviour in Win 10.
18:45:50  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27933 /trunk/src/lang (brazilian_portuguese.txt croatian.txt) (2017-12-09 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:51  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:52  <DorpsGek> croatian: 26 changes by UnderwaterHesus
18:45:53  <DorpsGek> portuguese (brazilian): 54 changes by Tucalipe
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18:54:45  * andythenorth updates NRT fork from master
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19:03:12  <Wolf01> Master updates from fork NRT
19:05:26  <peter1138> Yeah, works okay in Windows 7
19:09:18  <michi_cc> frosch123: Should I chance it? (Do we even have any Win95 users left?)
19:12:22  <andythenorth> old things die
19:12:31  * andythenorth just stopped supporting IE 8 :P
19:12:53  <frosch123> michi_cc: if we ever get the new compile farm for c++11 running, it will drop 9x
19:13:37  <frosch123> but what part does not work in 9x? the get-mouse-position-history part?
19:13:53  <frosch123> can you add an #ifdef for now then? so the current farm does not cry
19:15:25  <michi_cc> In theory it will also work on Windows 95, nothing in there is new in any way. Win95 might just handle mouse events differently.
19:16:25  <michi_cc> Or to put it differently: if it fails to compile it's a MingW problem, not a Windows problem.
19:17:48  <frosch123> nothing to worry then :)
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19:20:59  <andythenorth> so I want to co-locate 7 types of industry, with max distance of 64 tiles between any industry instance
19:21:04  <andythenorth> without deadlocking map
19:21:13  <andythenorth> map gen *
19:21:21  <andythenorth> stupid project?
19:21:37  <michi_cc> Well, if the farm fails tomorrow on Win95, I can at least increase the commit count :)
19:21:50  <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r27934 trunk/src/window.cpp (2017-12-09 20:21:41 +0100 )
19:21:51  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27900): Warning about unsigned unary minus.
19:21:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r27935 trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp (2017-12-09 20:21:45 +0100 )
19:21:55  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6629]: [Win32] Right mouse scrolling didn't work properly with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update.
19:21:59  <andythenorth> oh 1 of the industry types needs to also co-locate with another type :P
19:22:46  <frosch123> 8 industries within a 64x64 area
19:22:51  <frosch123> does that even fit? :p
19:23:05  <frosch123> well, 128x128 technically
19:23:17  <frosch123> hmm, no 64x,64
19:23:36  <michi_cc> If the mouse fix holds, it might warrant a 1.7.2 release.
19:23:59  <frosch123> yep
19:26:43  <peter1138> Yes
19:27:52  <Samu> why don't i get that windows version? 1709?
19:28:29  <andythenorth> frosch123: got 8 in 48x48 here :)
19:28:41  <Samu> i'm at version 1703
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19:49:02  <andythenorth> frosch123: any further thoughts on industry output cargos? o_O
19:51:23  <frosch123> no, want to finish other stuff first
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20:01:13  <glx> Samu: you can force the update if you really want it
20:05:10  <glx> Samu: https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows10
20:06:06  <glx> I used that on a laptop failing to install 1703 and it just ugraded from 1610 to 1709
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20:13:04  <andythenorth> k
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20:31:08  <Samu> so 1.7.2 is coming ?
20:31:18  <Samu> on christmas day? new years day?
20:33:00  <Wolf01> Never?
20:33:39  <V453000> yo?
20:33:45  <Wolf01> It's more expectable a 1.8 on 1st of April
20:33:53  <glx> or maybe 1.7.1.1 just to fix the mouse issue
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20:37:18  <supermop> wait is the mouse thing fixed?
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20:41:31  <andythenorth> hmm
20:41:42  <andythenorth> maybe FIRS is good enough using location checks I already wrote
20:41:49  <andythenorth> just applying them to more industries
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20:44:46  <andythenorth> 1 bad map out of 3 so far
20:44:48  <andythenorth> better
20:46:07  <glx> michi_cc: win9x seems to compile fine for me
20:47:15  <michi_cc> glx: The question was more a does it work fine
20:47:27  <andythenorth> 2 in 5 bad :(
20:47:31  <glx> I can't tell, I'm still on 1703 :)
20:47:42  <glx> but mouse still works
20:48:06  <michi_cc> I know that :) I actually triggered the 1703 -> 1709 updated today just to test it.
20:50:45  <andythenorth> 4 in 10 bad
20:50:53  <andythenorth> I don't have a control number from previous version :P
20:57:52  <andythenorth> 2 in 10 in my second test, different map settings
20:57:56  <andythenorth> so unscientific :P
20:58:20  * andythenorth pushes it anyway
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21:42:36  <V453000> I think I got mesmerised by a tank
21:42:44  <V453000> it's called iPad Pro :(
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21:49:10  <andythenorth> you got the pencil?
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21:55:40  <V453000> well I don't got anything right now
21:55:43  <V453000> but I will probably order it soon
21:55:51  <V453000> yeah including pencil
21:56:00  <V453000> am selling my wacom mobilestudio pro
21:56:11  <V453000> it's nice but the ipad seems much better and cheaper
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22:02:44  <andythenorth> ipad pro is remarkably not shit
22:02:47  <andythenorth> we have 2
22:03:09  <andythenorth> it benchmarks nearly as good as my macbook on some tests
22:03:15  <andythenorth> and is 25% of the price :P
22:07:27  <V453000> yeah exactly
22:07:28  <V453000> fuck sakes
22:07:33  <V453000> it's incredible
22:07:43  <andythenorth> I still hate ios
22:08:13  <andythenorth> and apple wear clown shoes these days about software
22:09:20  <andythenorth> build quality is exceptional though :P
22:10:28  <V453000> I think I'll mostly use procreate which seems like an amazing app
22:14:18  <andythenorth> looks nice
22:16:50  <V453000> eats PSDs ... :)
22:21:07  * andythenorth does FIRS
22:21:12  <andythenorth> enough tanks for a bit
22:22:33  <V453000> sick
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22:32:08  <LordAro> glx: i think the surprising thing is people still know how to compile for win9x :p
22:32:47  <glx> it's just configure --disable-unicode
22:33:31  <glx> as long as I don't try to update ICU my mingw env is working ;)
22:34:07  <LordAro> haha
22:34:18  <LordAro> frosch123: how's that harfbuzz stuff going? :p
22:35:11  <frosch123> pango, nor harfbuzz
22:35:19  <frosch123> *not
22:35:34  <LordAro> oh, that one
22:35:37  <LordAro> i forgot
22:35:41  <frosch123> you touched it last :)
22:36:00  <LordAro> ono
22:36:07  <andythenorth> hmm
22:36:16  <andythenorth> vehicle dealer gets built on roads in middle of nowhere
22:36:18  <andythenorth> bad?
22:37:01  <andythenorth> towns only?
22:42:05  <Cubey> Car dealerships are often just next to the highway or something
22:42:13  <Cubey> They need a lot of empty land
22:44:54  <andythenorth> right
22:44:58  <andythenorth> but in game? o_O
22:45:54  <Cubey> If there's a road adjacent, it seems reasonable
22:46:06  <Cubey> I don't know if you can determine whether the road is ultimately connected to a town
22:46:32  <frosch123> andythenorth: there is a "near-town" flag
22:46:37  <andythenorth> I know :)
22:46:38  <frosch123> it's used for toy shops etc
22:46:56  <andythenorth> player requests seem to be 'deliver vehicles to town'
22:47:02  <andythenorth> rather than to random tile near road
22:47:08  <andythenorth> so I'm using that flag
22:48:04  <andythenorth> works
22:51:12  <andythenorth> bed
22:51:16  <andythenorth> FIRS release tomorrow :P
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23:17:57  <Wolf01> 'night
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