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Log for #openttd on 27th December 2017:
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01:33:35  <sim-al2> Ok compiling with VS2017 here, I'm now getting C1083 Cannot open include file 'stdint.h'
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01:40:30  <LordAro> sim-al2: stdint.h is an exceptionally common standard header file, it'll be an issue with your set up
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01:44:21  <sim-al2> yeah fixed it
01:44:28  <sim-al2> not sure why that happened
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02:34:16  <sim-al2> ok I'm doing what the wiki page says exactly, added the library path and include path, compile solution, but it just throws the same stdint.h error
02:35:03  <sim-al2> I literally don't understand why, it's even referenced for strgen and settingsgen
02:36:13  <sim-al2> there's most certainly a stdint.h in VS's own files too
02:39:41  <sim-al2> this wiki page to be exact: https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Windows_using_Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2015
02:40:16  <sim-al2> I did select openttd_vs141.sln also, but I don't think that's the problem
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02:43:01  <sim-al2> @logs
02:43:01  <DorpsGek> sim-al2: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
02:44:09  <sim-al2> I don't suppose there's a seach function for the logs...
03:07:16  <glx> maybe you can try to create a generic win32 project and see if it builds, just to check your VS is working
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03:22:18  <sim-al2> it seems fine with compling hello world
03:22:38  <sim-al2> and including stdint.h with it...
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03:52:11  <sim-al2> ok nevermind I'm going to plan B
03:52:22  <sim-al2> Linux VM
03:52:47  <sim-al2> it's a bit amazing that Microsoft's own code tools don't work
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08:04:50  <andythenorth> o/
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08:09:28  <Rubidium> aloha
08:13:28  <andythenorth> hi Rubidium
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12:12:18  <andythenorth> quiet
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13:41:23  <Borg> yoo.. any devel around? I wanna share little cleanup patch
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14:05:13  <LordAro> Borg: share it anyway, the channel is logged :p
14:05:40  <Borg> yeah.. and it will get lost..
14:05:44  <Borg> Ill wait..
14:05:47  <Borg> anyway.. da fuck.. guys
14:06:02  <Borg> I just upgraded from 1.6.1 to 1.7.2 and... geez.. those messages at Industries
14:06:17  <Borg> Requires: xxx tons of core waiting
14:06:21  <Borg> looks terrible..
14:06:47  <LordAro> ?
14:06:52  <Borg> I really liked old messages, like: Cargo waiting to be proceseed: xxx tons of coal
14:06:58  <Borg> looks much more clear to read..
14:07:30  <Borg> LordAro: I talk about this: http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/tmp/reserves.png
14:07:32  <Borg> this is from 1.6.1
14:08:21  <Borg> really...
14:08:26  <Borg> new messages look damn akward..
14:10:10  <LordAro> burn rate? that looks like a newgrf
14:10:39  <Borg> yeah..
14:10:51  <Borg> this one yes.. but Cargo waiting to be processed is from OpenTTD internals
14:11:46  <Borg> lets RTFS..
14:13:22  <__ln__> Borg: you'll die of old age before you find a dev here who is willing to look at a patch and apply it
14:13:49  <LordAro> :(
14:14:09  <Rubidium> __ln__: don't you mean that the devs have died of old age?
14:14:29  <__ln__> not necessarily
14:14:58  <Borg> arghh!!!!
14:15:22  <Borg> STR_INDUSTRY_VIEW_WAITING_FOR_PROCESSING                        :{BLACK}Cargo waiting to be processed:
14:15:26  <Borg> its 1.6
14:16:07  <Borg> now its completly redesigned..
14:16:16  <Borg> :((((
14:16:42  <Borg> why.. why people always change good old things to new.. worse things!
14:17:08  <LordAro> https://xkcd.com/1172/
14:17:23  <Rubidium> check the changelog and maybe see some reasoning for that change?
14:17:36  <LordAro> that said, it's just wording, maybe it can be changed back to some extent
14:17:53  <Borg> LordAro: seems not.. I changed lang files.. IDs are changed completly..
14:18:09  <Borg> Rubidium: but please.. take a look at screen shot
14:18:16  <Borg> and take a look at 1.7.2 and tell.. yourself
14:18:20  <LordAro> i didn't say it wouldn't require *some* code changes
14:18:20  <Borg> what looks and reads better..
14:18:27  <frosch123> yep, 1.7.2 is better
14:18:35  <Borg> frosch123: wording?
14:18:41  <LordAro> Borg: for those not currently at a computer, can you give a 1.7.2 example?
14:18:52  <Borg> LordAro: okey, Ill do screenshot..
14:18:59  <Borg> hang on..
14:20:27  <Borg> http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/tmp/reserves.png
14:20:33  <Borg> http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/tmp/new_ind_text.png
14:20:36  <Borg> 1.6.1 vs 1.7.2
14:20:59  <Borg> really.. 1.6.1 looks better here.. clean and readable
14:21:17  <Borg> 1.7.2 looks just bad..
14:21:20  <frosch123> now try a different grf
14:21:26  <Borg> its not NEWGRF dude!
14:21:38  <frosch123> you use a grf with stockpiling
14:21:41  <Borg> yeah
14:21:46  <Borg> but those strings are from OpenTTD itself
14:21:48  <frosch123> 1.6.1 looks terrible for grfs without stockpiling
14:21:51  <frosch123> that's why it was changed
14:22:01  <Borg> really?
14:22:06  <Borg> didnt noticed...
14:22:11  <__ln__> *didn't notice
14:22:16  <Borg> I played a lot.. w/o stockpiling
14:23:25  <LordAro> "requires ... x amount waiting" does not read well at all, tbf
14:23:36  <Borg> http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/tmp/openttd_borg.png
14:23:49  <Borg> its 1.6.1 w/o stockpiling
14:23:54  <__ln__> *it's
14:23:55  <Borg> looks ok
14:23:57  <frosch123> that's plain ottd, without newgrf
14:24:04  <frosch123> try firs
14:24:27  <Borg> frosch123: why should I?
14:24:33  <Borg> it fixes those strings?
14:24:56  <Borg> I doubt it..
14:25:27  <Borg> LordAro: yeah.. they could make IF.. to display w/ or w/o stockpiling..
14:25:33  <LordAro> "requires x y z \n n amount of x waiting"
14:25:34  <LordAro> maybe
14:25:40  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pafao1c2t <- that's the "design document" for the 1.7 change
14:25:54  <frosch123> it changes the text to fit best in most scenarios
14:26:15  <Borg> LordAro: nah.. old one was just perfect.. :) in my opinion.. longer introduction texts.. and all the info about cargo waiting.. w/o any unnecessary teksts
14:26:18  <Borg> lets see
14:26:25  <Rubidium> Borg: to be honest, my last (auto) save is from early April 2015 so I'm not really in the loop anymore
14:26:58  <LordAro> Rubidium: :((
14:27:34  <frosch123> i agree that the screenshots to not match the design
14:27:43  <frosch123> the cargo was supposed to be in front
14:27:43  <Borg> frosch123: I have my own GRF
14:27:56  <Borg> so.. second case here
14:28:02  <Borg> and they match... just looks bad
14:28:35  <Borg> oh well...
14:28:46  <Borg> I wonder if I could compile OpenTTD myself...
14:28:49  <Borg> is mingw supported?
14:29:07  <LordAro> mhmm
14:29:33  <LordAro> there's a probably outdated guide on the wiki
14:29:42  <Borg> ah shit..
14:29:46  <LordAro> i'd imagine it's a lot easier now that msys2 is a thing
14:29:56  <Borg> hmm..
14:31:53  <Borg> hmm...
14:32:56  <Borg> but!!
14:33:00  <Borg> I see easier solution :>
14:33:11  <frosch123> use 0.6.0?
14:33:17  <Borg> changing lang file
14:33:19  <Borg> should work..
14:33:26  <Borg> STR_INDUSTRY_VIEW_REQUIRES                                      :{BLACK}Requires
14:33:29  <Borg> STR_INDUSTRY_VIEW_ACCEPT_CARGO                                  :{YELLOW}{STRING}
14:33:32  <Borg> STR_INDUSTRY_VIEW_ACCEPT_CARGO_AMOUNT                           :{YELLOW}{CARGO_LONG} {BLACK}waiting
14:34:10  <Borg> what is used to convert .txt to .lng ?
14:34:18  <Borg> hex editing .lng is probably not good idea
14:34:27  <Borg> frosch123: haha, very funny ;P
14:34:57  <Borg> 1189360 Jan 24  2005 openttd-0.3.5-win32.zip
14:34:59  <Borg> frosch123:  ;P
14:35:24  <frosch123> that version does not have that text
14:35:41  <Borg> yeah. but its oldest one I have
14:36:54  <__ln__> Borg: *it's the oldest
14:40:38  <Borg> lets try
14:40:48  <Borg> I already compiled 1.7.2 dedicated server
14:40:52  <Borg> and lang files are there ;)
14:41:07  <Flygon> Borg?
14:41:10  <Flygon> Sounds Swedish.
14:41:19  <Borg> hehe.. but I am not :) just nickname
14:41:51  <Flygon> I gotta go soon, but...
14:41:55  <Flygon> Tell Seven I said Hi. :3
14:42:04  * Flygon re-lurks
14:42:46  <frosch123> is that a startrek quote?
14:42:51  <__ln__> indeed it is
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14:46:16  <Borg> yes!!!!!! fixed :D
14:46:26  <Borg> editing english_US.lng did the trick :D
14:46:31  <Borg> muahuah... now im happy
14:47:17  <Borg> frosch123: yeah.. Startrek.. BORG is interesting specie...
14:48:09  <__ln__> but "Sounds Swedish" is also a star trek quote
14:48:25  <Borg> __ln__: yeah, especialy when we speak about 7of9 ;D
14:48:45  <Borg> I love the part when she asked Enson Kim: take off your cloths.. :D
14:50:13  <Borg> frosch123: still, I think they should rethink reasoning of changing that Cargo strings in industries...
14:50:52  <Borg> anyway.. fixed...
14:51:17  <Borg> and as for patch.. nothing serious... more guards for NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
14:51:22  <Borg> few places lacks it..
14:52:07  <Flygon> (I would've preferred the other version of the scene where she laughs for the first time. But, alas, they didn't film it. They went with the Copulation Scene instead. @_@)
14:52:59  <Borg> ;)
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15:23:30  <Borg> LOL wait
15:24:09  <Borg> frosch123: is actually right!
15:24:15  <Borg> I didnt noticed it at first
15:24:24  <Borg> it just doesnt match any of the "design document"
15:24:36  <Borg> but nevermind....
15:24:49  <Borg> anyway.. I cant compile OpenTTD myself.. because MSYS2 cannot be installed on WinXP..
15:24:52  <Borg> no luck..
15:42:31  <Samu> hi
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15:43:48  <Samu> i'm testing this https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=77335
15:44:05  <Samu> McZappkie post here?
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15:50:13  <LordAro> Borg: ...you're on XP?
15:50:17  <LordAro> fix, immediately
15:52:35  <Borg> why?
15:52:37  <Borg> works fine..
15:52:44  <Borg> okey I made final lang fix...
15:52:51  <Borg> "Requires" -> "Cargo input:"
15:52:55  <LordAro> it's really not fine any more
15:53:05  <Borg> looks good for stockpiled and normal industries
15:53:06  <LordAro> many many security vulnerabilities that are not being fixed any more
15:53:10  <Borg> haha..
15:53:13  <LordAro> it's been end of life for 3 years
15:53:17  <Borg> u think your precious Win10 is safe?
15:53:23  <LordAro> safer
15:53:29  <Borg> of course...
15:53:38  <Borg> actually.. im on Win2003
15:53:46  <Borg> but.. not much difference :>
15:53:51  <LordAro> ...no
15:53:57  <Samu> tfw when your best ai crashes due to excessive cpu evaluator crap.... https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=200718
15:54:20  <LordAro> heh
15:55:09  <Borg> okey! im set :)
15:55:21  <Borg> 1.7.2 dedicated server compiled..
15:55:28  <Borg> my NewGRF seems to work fine..
15:55:30  <Borg> time to play
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16:11:02  <Borg> http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/tmp/borg_ind_text.png
16:11:09  <Borg> best solution.. I came with... ;)
16:14:51  <Samu> burn rate?
16:15:35  <Borg> yeah.. ;) no production.. except electricity and heat ;) so.. I had to make indicator..
16:16:57  <Samu> aren't GS's supposed to deal with industries?
16:17:47  <Borg> in what sense? GS can spawn new.. or remove industries..
16:17:53  <Borg> check some things.. but cannot alter productions
16:18:15  <Samu> oh
16:19:30  <Samu> hmm and what about towns?
16:22:09  <Borg> they are consumers... cant think of indicators for them..
16:22:21  <Borg> but Im thinking about changing how banks works..
16:22:29  <Borg> they production should be related to City size..
16:22:37  <Borg> I think I will code that later
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16:44:18  <andythenorth> o/
16:45:46  <RafiX> o/
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16:54:07  <Samu> it took 15 years for trAIns to build
16:54:40  <Samu> on a relatively simple map
16:54:51  <Samu> 5000 ops seems low for some ais
17:10:41  <LordAro> trains is special
17:10:52  <LordAro> it spends an awful lot of time getting the route right
17:11:07  <LordAro> it was literally someone's masters project, iirc
17:12:49  <Borg> :>
17:12:51  <Borg> RafiX: yoooo ;)
17:12:56  <Borg> RafiX: still cant join servers? ;)
17:13:04  <Borg> I compiled 1.7.2 today...
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17:22:30  <RafiX> Borg: yeah, still dial-up
17:30:02  <Borg> crap... ;/
17:30:52  <RafiX> well yeah
17:31:02  <RafiX> maybe it will  get better
17:35:04  <Borg> ufff. converted everything to monorail..
17:35:06  <Borg> took a while
17:35:17  <Borg> operating profit went 50% down..
17:35:28  <Borg> now production needs to adjust again.. itself
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17:35:45  <RafiX> I haven't touched openttd for like week or  two
17:36:18  <Borg> uh :)
17:36:32  <Borg> I yesterday finished my simple GRF...
17:36:36  <RafiX> I must play some
17:36:39  <Borg> yeah!
17:36:49  <Borg> should I create server?
17:36:51  <Borg> for test?
17:37:02  <Borg> its more fun to play w/ someone
17:37:06  <RafiX> hmm, I need to go in like 30 minutes..
17:37:17  <Borg> ok
17:37:26  <RafiX> I don't want to risk being late because I got sucked in
17:37:40  <Borg> ;)
17:38:40  <RafiX> I remember years ago when I overslept to school because I was playing OpenTTD with my friend till like 2 or 3 AM
17:38:51  <Borg> hehe. I know the pain
17:39:06  <Borg> I yesterday got sucked in... finishmy mew GRF..
17:39:18  <Borg> and went sleep late :)
17:39:27  <RafiX> I got sucked in Mount & Blade recently
17:40:08  <RafiX> and I'm scared because I will get Wii and PS3 this week
17:41:22  <Borg> ;)
17:42:15  <RafiX> got some money for christmas and decided to catch up with some newer games
17:51:16  <Borg> hmm 4k goods production.. we hit first threshold... we need more 26 good carts trainz..
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17:52:49  <Wolf01> o/
18:11:17  <Samu> Think globally, act locally
18:11:35  <Samu> towns don't get higher than 1700 population, what's wrong?
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18:15:17  <Borg> Samu: what climate?
18:15:32  <Samu> temperate
18:15:42  <Borg> huh. weird
18:15:54  <Borg> I have exacly oposite problem.. damn towns grow too much ;)
18:16:08  <Samu> have you tried this gs?
18:16:13  <Borg> aaaaah :D no
18:17:01  <Samu> maybe it needs to deliver mail? it only requests 80% passengers
18:17:15  <Samu> some towns match that criteria and yet, they don't grow
18:17:37  <Samu> Passengers & Mail last month: 95% / 80%
18:18:28  <Samu> @calc 209/280
18:18:28  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.746428571429
18:18:40  <Samu> @calc (209+22)/280
18:18:40  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.825
18:18:52  <Samu> uh, how does he calculate 95%?
18:19:53  <Samu> syntrans is using large airplanes on small airports :(
18:21:26  <Samu> 101%
18:21:31  <Borg> ;)
18:21:34  <Samu> how can it go over 100% :(
18:21:38  <Samu> i fail at undestanding this
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18:31:01  <Samu> syntrans and fastptpai have the same author?
18:31:09  <Samu> interesting
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18:34:48  <andythenorth> frosch123: GroundTypes and DecorationTypes? o_O
18:35:30  <Borg> oh I think I found a bug :)
18:35:46  <Borg> when using stockpiling and recesion
18:35:59  <andythenorth> ?
18:36:02  <Borg> factories eating my resources.. but output is reduced..
18:36:10  <Borg> I have production CB
18:36:59  <Borg> well.. we can say that ppl steal goods in recessions ;) minor glitch
18:37:18  <andythenorth> sounds like production multiplier is used somehow
18:37:22  <andythenorth> bad newgrf?
18:37:41  <Borg> I checked sources.. and recession is handlign after production.. on cargo distribution stage.
18:37:55  <Borg> it should be rather done on production CBs (production tickrate)
18:37:58  <Borg> in my opinion
18:38:02  <andythenorth> what is recession?
18:38:12  <Borg> I play w/ smooth_economy=off
18:38:24  <Borg> and recession randomly happens.. halfing all productions..
18:38:24  <andythenorth> I play with it on, although I've been told not to :)
18:38:45  <Borg> I dont like smooth_economy... too much small changes.. cant react on them..
18:38:51  <frosch123> andythenorth: someone tm complained about the new industry gui
18:39:02  <Borg> on normal. its fun to see news w/ 50% down or 100% up.. I can add trains.. etc
18:39:19  <andythenorth> they did frosch123? o_O
18:39:34  <andythenorth> was it alberth?
18:39:55  <frosch123> http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/tmp/new_ind_text.png <- borg says the wording is wrong
18:40:07  <frosch123> "requires xxx waiting" ENoEnglish or so
18:40:12  <Borg> well, looks bad indeed :)
18:40:22  <Borg> I managed to fix it via lang files myself..
18:40:29  <Borg> http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/tmp/borg_ind_text.png
18:40:33  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pafao1c2t <- that's the paste i found, it has "requires xxx: yyy waiting"
18:40:49  <andythenorth> Waiting: xxx (required)
18:41:27  <frosch123> it can only be one headline, iirc the lines can be mied
18:41:29  <frosch123> *mixed
18:41:45  <frosch123> so we need one headline to rule them all
18:44:25  <Samu> simpleai airport location choice is really bad
18:44:32  <Samu> i dont remember it being this bad
18:45:05  <andythenorth> I thought we were moving the 'xxx t'
18:45:09  <andythenorth> so it was 'xxx t waiting'
18:45:24  <andythenorth> 'Requires' is historically consistent and no reason to change it
18:45:43  <andythenorth> stockpiling is not even a BAD FEATURE
18:45:45  <andythenorth> so eh
18:45:51  <frosch123> i think it's about putting a pointation character between "requires" and "waiting"
18:46:00  <Borg> andythenorth: in 1.6.1 it was nicely done in my opinion... via if..
18:46:10  <Borg> when no stockpiling.. it said Requires:
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18:46:18  <Borg> when stockpiling: Cargo waiting to be processed:
18:46:24  <Borg> looked good..
18:46:25  <andythenorth> the colour change between 'amount cargo / waiting
18:46:30  <andythenorth> makes no sense
18:46:41  <andythenorth> and 'Cargo waiting to be processed' made no sense
18:46:47  <andythenorth> for the common case
18:46:50  <Borg> andythenorth: why?
18:46:59  <Borg> it was displayed like that *only* when stockpiling
18:47:05  <andythenorth> no it wasn't :)
18:47:10  <Borg> huh? really?
18:47:18  <andythenorth> it's a good example of distorting the game to support a specific niche gameplay idea
18:47:22  <andythenorth> that happened a lot :)
18:47:46  <Borg> andythenorth: ahh you speak about early versions? I am comparing 1.6.1 vs 1.7.2
18:47:52  <andythenorth> yes
18:47:56  <Borg> ok
18:48:02  <andythenorth> 1.6.1 was broken
18:48:08  <andythenorth> as were many versions before ;)
18:48:37  <andythenorth> The most important information is what the industry requires
18:48:47  <andythenorth> not how much is waiting to be processed, which is 0 in the common case
18:48:47  <Borg> haha :D I know that.. current.. is like: my greatest work has been completed! and then. you find another thing to fix/improve ;)
18:49:32  <Borg> andythenorth: oh well.. it depends on... GRF.. I recently started playing w/ stockpiling.. and I really liked it..
18:49:59  <Borg> andythenorth: can u accept patches as well?
18:50:10  <Borg> I have simple cleanup patch.. for NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
18:50:18  <Borg> few places lack guard for it..
18:50:35  <andythenorth> I can't commit to trunk
18:50:37  <andythenorth> for reasons
18:50:42  <Borg> hmm too bad..
18:51:18  <Borg> andythenorth: and how about my Cargo input: thingie?
18:51:35  <andythenorth> it doesn't say what the industry requires
18:51:38  <Borg> Its best what I could figure out to handle both basic requirements and stockpiling ;)
18:51:40  <andythenorth> it says what you delivered
18:51:57  <Borg> well.. Cargo input: means.. what it requires... for me at least..
18:52:09  <Borg> but it could get weird in translations I belive..
18:52:16  <andythenorth> I read it as "what's been delivered historically"
18:52:22  <andythenorth> input is stuff that's arrived
18:52:26  <Borg> oh.. weird..
18:52:37  <andythenorth> 'Requires' is consistent with default game :D
18:52:50  <Borg> well.. Input.. is input.. for ppl w/ programing in mind... its what you need to feed :) to get output
18:52:51  <Samu> stuff that arrived is clearer to me
18:52:58  <Borg> andythenorth: I agree with that... its best
18:53:07  <Borg> but as I said.. in 1.6.1 it was nicely done via if..
18:53:17  <Borg> no stockpilling, said "Requires: "
18:53:27  <andythenorth> no
18:53:35  <andythenorth> it said "Cargo waiting to be processed"
18:53:36  <Borg> w/ stockpiling.. headline messages was changed to "Cargo waiting to be processed: "
18:53:41  <Borg> andythenorth: can u tell in what case?
18:53:47  <andythenorth> it was the source of multiple FIRS bug reports
18:53:56  <Borg> because I had 1.6.1 few hours ago..
18:53:58  <Borg> ahhh wait!
18:54:07  <Borg> so GRF problem..
18:54:12  <Borg> FIRS use production CB?
18:54:14  <andythenorth> yes
18:54:15  <Borg> but no stockpiling?
18:54:20  <andythenorth> stockpiling isn't a thing
18:54:25  <andythenorth> it's grf-specific
18:54:26  <Borg> I know
18:54:35  <Borg> production CB is.. thats what if used there
18:54:38  <andythenorth> yes
18:54:55  <Borg> okey ;) U have tought one to fix then ;D
18:54:57  <Borg> good luck..
18:55:03  <Borg> im happy w/ my lang hack :D
18:55:17  <andythenorth> if it could be conditionally titled, likely frosch123 would have done that
18:55:21  <andythenorth> I tend to defer to frosch123
18:55:52  <Borg> well
18:55:56  <Borg> u need extra industry flag ;D
18:56:00  <Borg> lets see newgrf specs
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18:56:26  <Borg> special industry flags
18:56:29  <Borg> plenty of bits left :D
18:56:44  <Borg> u can add extra flag.. industry using stockpiling or not ;)
18:57:03  <Borg> and tada.. u can have if.. to display cargo waiting or not waiting
18:57:10  <Borg> FIRS dude will addapt quickly
18:57:21  <Borg> ;)
18:57:53  <frosch123> that flag already exists
18:58:03  <frosch123> but it is a per-input-cargo flag, not a per-industry flag
18:58:09  <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't display cargo waiting
18:58:15  <andythenorth> it just displays 'required [cargos]
18:58:16  <frosch123> so you can change the layout of each line, but there can only be one headline
18:58:26  <Borg> frosch123: but we need industry flag for this!
18:58:47  <frosch123> i don't :p
18:59:22  <Borg> well.. other solution is to add new callback.. but its worst solution.. or wait
18:59:25  <Borg> CB flag.. lets see specs
18:59:27  <Samu> Requires, Stockpilled, Produces
18:59:41  <frosch123> you do not need a new flag
18:59:52  <andythenorth> what's the issue?
19:00:01  <andythenorth> other than the weird formatting of the 'waiting' lines?
19:00:14  <Borg> andythenorth: headline is wrong imo
19:00:25  <andythenorth> headline is what's required
19:00:32  <andythenorth> how else does player know requirements? :)
19:00:32  <Borg> if you have stockpiling.. that Requires.... xxx coal waiting.. looks weird
19:00:43  <andythenorth> that's because stockpiling is broken :)
19:00:46  <andythenorth> it's a silly idea
19:00:48  <Borg> its not!
19:00:49  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pafao1c2t <- again, does the old proposal fix it?
19:00:55  <Borg> lets see
19:01:19  <Borg> frosch123: yeah, looks acceptable
19:01:40  <Samu> ECS: (0000 - 03ff)   Requires     Livestock: 10 items waiting (300 max)     Grain: 20 tons waiting (200 max)
19:01:41  <Borg> also add that damn ':'
19:01:43  <Borg> after requires
19:01:47  <Samu> i like the ECS approach more
19:02:03  <Borg> Samu: but ECS suplies that extra info about max
19:02:10  <Samu> instead of "waiting", isn't it supposed to be "queued"? or
19:02:13  <andythenorth> the colon is weirdly inconsistent
19:02:25  <Borg> andythenorth: really? I see oposite :D
19:02:48  <Samu> "waiting" = "stockpilled"?
19:02:53  <Samu> what is the behaviour there?
19:02:56  <Borg> noo.. waiting is good..
19:02:59  <Borg> at least to me
19:03:11  <Borg> queued and stockpilled will look weird
19:03:14  <frosch123> 4th case could use ":" instead of "( )"
19:03:46  <Borg> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pafao1c2t <- this one I like..
19:03:47  <frosch123> hmm, but that is actually a grf decision
19:03:52  <Borg> just add ':' after Requires
19:03:54  <Borg> and we all happy
19:03:55  <Borg> ;)
19:04:06  <andythenorth> 'Production last month:' has :
19:04:09  <Borg> of course
19:04:12  <Borg> its everywhere
19:04:17  <Borg> and it looks good
19:04:28  <andythenorth> +1
19:04:35  <Borg> it just informs u about list..
19:04:46  <andythenorth> so all this is resolved by adding ':' to one string? o-O
19:04:52  <Borg> andythenorth: no
19:04:57  <Borg> look at screen shot
19:04:59  <frosch123> so, only add ":" to require? or also to waiting lines?
19:05:06  <Borg> you need to fix lang files
19:05:36  <Borg> http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/tmp/new_ind_text.png
19:05:36  <Samu> the waiting is a bit confusing, misleading for me
19:05:50  <Borg> Samu: its on stockpilling.. whats misleading dammit? :D
19:05:55  <Borg> it WAITs for being processed..
19:06:06  <Borg> stockpilled.. means.. wait for whatever..
19:06:11  <Borg> maybe for nuclear war
19:06:21  <Borg> but wait.. means it will not sit there and wait forever.. it will be processed soon
19:06:52  <LordAro> "Requires: ... cargo (x amount waiting)" would be better, imo
19:06:54  <Samu> Requires livestock: 10 tonnes waiting, seems like it's waiting for 10 tonnes of livestock to arrive :p
19:06:59  <Borg> andythenorth: it needs to look like on paste... 'Requires:\n Coal: 324 tonnes waiting'
19:07:12  <Borg> Samu: english isnt your native?
19:07:25  <LordAro> i'm with Samu on this
19:07:26  <Borg> Samu: for that case.. it would look like this: 'waiting for 10 tonnes of coal'
19:08:36  <Borg> LordAro: yeah this one looks good: 'Requires:\n Coal (10 tonnes waiting)'
19:08:40  <Borg> too :)
19:08:54  <Borg> but then u have problem w/ max values..
19:09:03  <Borg> add it after ',' ?
19:09:19  <Borg> like: 'Requires:\n Coal (10 tonnes waiting, Max: 50)' ?
19:09:22  <Borg> dunno.. :)
19:09:42  <Samu> Requires: Coal
19:10:01  <frosch123> LordAro: additional ( ) fail in case 3
19:10:08  <Samu> Currently stored: 10 / 50 tonnes of Coal
19:10:18  <LordAro> ooh, yes
19:10:20  <LordAro> ^
19:10:34  <frosch123>  the " (300 max)" is from the grf, and cannot be changed
19:10:49  <LordAro> ah
19:10:56  <LordAro> fix the grfs :p
19:11:00  <Borg> so go for Livestock: 10 items waiting
19:11:07  <Borg> and add optional () to it.. looks good too
19:12:08  <LordAro> seems reasonable
19:12:27  <Borg> damn recession... ate my all stockpilled cargos...
19:12:30  <Borg> produced nothing...
19:12:34  <Borg> I would fix that too :)
19:13:06  <frosch123> disable recession
19:13:12  <Borg> nah.. its fun
19:13:15  <Borg> random event..
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19:13:37  <Borg> but implementation is broken :) for stockpiling of course
19:13:51  <frosch123> i doubt a recession lets stockpiles grow just under the sun
19:14:12  <Borg> hehe of course
19:14:15  <frosch123> you can either steal cargo on input side or on output side
19:14:21  <Borg> but current, this happens..
19:14:35  <Borg> production CB is called.. stuff gets used. and we produce output..
19:15:01  <Borg> now.. we go to DistributeCargo() function.. and here.. recession is handled.. doing 50% reduction on cargo distribution..
19:15:20  <Borg> so.. we used X stuff.. produced Y.. but delivered Y/2
19:15:42  <Borg> it could be better to just call production function or callback /2 when recession
19:15:51  <Borg> more consistent
19:15:52  <Borg> :)
19:17:14  <Borg> its called every 256ticks right? around 8 times per months..
19:17:19  <Borg> recession? call it every 512 ;)
19:17:28  <Borg> s/months/month/
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19:19:41  <andythenorth> who are these people who have hard drive crashes?
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19:20:27  <Rubidium> andythenorth: statistics? those with lots of hard drives?
19:20:56  <andythenorth> I have lost lots of hard drives
19:21:02  <andythenorth> but so far, not a lot of data
19:21:06  <andythenorth> some, but not much
19:21:36  <andythenorth> frosch123 any interest in a NewNewStations spec? o_O :P
19:23:57  <Rubidium> andythenorth: why not start with newnewgrf?
19:25:03  <andythenorth> I thought you were working on that already Rubidium :)
19:25:14  <andythenorth> apologies if I'm wrong
19:25:29  <Rubidium> no, the things I'm working on is too real for that
19:34:57  <andythenorth> RL trains?
19:35:13  <Rubidium> yup
19:41:00  <V453000> we got another set of lego duplo, total network right now
19:41:14  <V453000> need moar junctionz per usual but yarrrr
19:41:19  <andythenorth> duplo trains?
19:41:58  <andythenorth> https://shop.lego.com/en-GB/Deluxe-Train-Set-10508?CMP=KAC-SAHCSEU8&HQS=10508&ef_id=WNUfdAAAABP8Fa7F%3A20171227194149%3As&s_kwcid=AL%21933%213%21104878546230%21%21%21g%21375299985993%21
19:41:59  <andythenorth> ?
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19:42:23  <V453000> yeah that's our latest addition
19:42:26  <frosch123> andythenorth: what are decoration types?
19:42:32  <andythenorth> buildings and stuff
19:42:38  <V453000> I was surprised that this deluxe box doesn't have any switchers
19:42:39  <frosch123> so, newobjects?
19:42:43  <andythenorth> choose ground, choose decoration
19:42:50  <V453000> bastards want you to buy as many boxes as possible
19:42:53  <andythenorth> yes newobjects, except split from ground
19:42:55  <V453000> well they're winning that battle
19:43:13  <LordAro> Rubidium: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-failure-rates-q3-2017/
19:43:52  <frosch123> i have no hdd anymore, i am more interested in ssd failure rates
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19:44:22  <frosch123> but i guess they correlate with psu failure rates
19:45:12  <andythenorth> V453000 we skipped duplo trains
19:45:18  <andythenorth> got enough duplo :P
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19:45:55  <V453000> gotta start early enough
19:46:37  <V453000> and it's still a female so chances are that things will go wrong later and she won't appreciate normal (lego) trains as much :P
19:47:32  <frosch123> LordAro: why does the seagate 4tb one perform so bad? does it have a higher rpm?
19:48:07  <frosch123> oh, text says "consumer" vs "enterprise"
19:50:54  <frosch123> V453000: stop playing trains, say "trains are for girls", and tell your wife to play trains instrad
19:51:06  <V453000> XD
19:51:34  <andythenorth> play tanks
19:51:47  <Rubidium> just blame her father for a mistake in her upbringing
19:52:31  <LordAro> frosch123: also, seagate sucks a bit
19:53:12  <RafiX> WD is probably the best HDD manufacturer
19:53:25  <RafiX> but I heard that Seagate makes good SSHD
19:54:32  <frosch123> LordAro: i believe those things change over year. all hdd which broke down in my family were WD, while the rest survived
19:54:56  <frosch123> but all those WD failures were late 90s
19:55:49  <Rubidium> RafiX: from the backblaze thing: the worst HGST disk is better than the best WD disk
19:56:00  <LordAro> true enough, it's never an absolute
19:56:21  <RafiX> well I never cared so much because I never had a brand new HDD
19:56:31  <LordAro> i've got some harddrives that the power on time has overflowed
19:56:42  <RafiX> and those I have currently have had been used by me for like 2 or more years
19:57:42  <LordAro> frosch123: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/201064-which-ssds-are-the-most-reliable-massive-study-sheds-some-light is a bit dated, but i usually go back to it
19:57:50  <V453000> btw frosch123 I finally managed to resolve my pushing problems to https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/part/repository ... if you could please please please have a look at why don't my trains draw in layers, it would greatly help me progress, I'm stuck and I have no idea what to fix with it :( there should be everything necessary to build the grf in the repo, important parts are in NML and gfx folders, rest is files for making the graphics
19:58:26  <frosch123> bad timing, i leave tomorrow morning for a week
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19:59:40  <V453000> can wait :) enough work on graphics :P
19:59:50  <V453000> it's been stale for the last 2 weeks, so ... :)
20:00:21  <frosch123> what was the pushing problem?
20:00:34  <frosch123> or rather its solution?
20:01:54  <V453000> I was probably pushing some bad files like .grf
20:02:02  <V453000> and hg complained a lot
20:02:36  <V453000> so I ended up making a backup, deleting the repo and cloning a new empty repository + re-pasting the files there, and carefully committing, and setting up hgignore properly
20:02:52  <frosch123> ah, the hooks
20:02:54  <V453000> I wasn't sure if .bat things are an issue as well, but seems fine
20:03:00  <V453000> yes something with hooks it said
20:03:02  <V453000> unfortunately not hookers
20:03:20  <V453000> but I called it something along those lines afterwards in return
20:05:20  <V453000> there is probably a similar issue with BRIX
20:05:33  <V453000> I will fix it later because that's a shitload of files
20:05:53  <V453000> but yeah I need to pay a bit more attention to it instead of doing "commit all, push, run"
20:19:35  <frosch123> V453000: stop putting a space after the ":" in lang files :)
20:19:56  <V453000> valid point :)
20:20:09  <V453000> fixed
20:20:52  <Wolf01> Oh, hi V
20:20:59  <Wolf01> F is fucking my mind
20:21:46  <Wolf01> 21 hours in 3 days
20:21:53  <Wolf01> No, 24
20:22:26  <V453000> not bad but that's just a full time job? :P
20:26:56  <frosch123> V453000: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/prouvurzx?/prouvurzx <- it can be that easy :p
20:27:17  <V453000> :D
20:28:46  <V453000> well damn, it was! :D
20:28:54  <V453000> thank you very much frosch123, you saved me once again
20:29:49  <V453000> sick :>
20:30:51  <frosch123> damn... colors
20:30:58  <V453000> I might need to figure out a way which changes the order of layering based on orientation but for now it will be enough :)
20:31:01  <V453000> colors?
20:31:06  <frosch123> industry gui
20:31:10  <V453000> :d
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21:28:59  <Borg> haha. funny harddisk talk
21:29:16  <RafiX> consoles talk time then|
21:29:18  <RafiX> ?*
21:29:18  <Borg> guys.. are you writing like 10MB/s avarage 24/7 to your hdd?
21:29:29  <Borg> I like shitloads of HDDs...
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21:29:37  <Borg> like from 1.2GB to 1TB
21:29:40  <RafiX> well maybe they're data hoarders
21:29:56  <Borg> and I had one disk failure so far.. on server, uptime 2200 days
21:30:05  <RafiX> damn
21:30:13  <Borg> disk started to had sector read errors
21:30:40  <Borg> but... this server worked on suboptimal envinromnemt... HDD temp was high.. 40 45 deg..
21:31:01  <Borg> so.. if you are not killing your HDD w/ writes.. most stuff will do...
21:31:40  <Borg> but true is.. WD or Seagate.. same shit in quality..
21:32:08  <Borg> HGST disk are good indeed..
21:32:10  <RafiX> damn, those scrambled eggs are spicy
21:32:41  <Borg> but as I said.. I care when I had constant write environment.. like DFS.. Object Storage.. VMs..
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21:55:00  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27952 /trunk/src (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt) (2017-12-27 22:54:52 +0100 )
21:55:01  <DorpsGek> -Change: Reword texts in industry view, when stockpiling is used.
21:55:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27953 /trunk/src/lang (30 files) (2017-12-27 22:55:30 +0100 )
21:55:37  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Adjust other languages for r27952
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21:56:12  <frosch123> yay, regex
21:56:19  <Samu> oh noes, a patch
21:56:57  <andythenorth> power outages destroy tank game :P
21:56:58  <andythenorth> nvm
21:57:17  <frosch123> meta strategies
21:57:27  <frosch123> are you playing your neighbour?
21:58:24  <glx> oh no, I have translations to fix
21:59:14  <frosch123> really?
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22:00:49  <andythenorth> such bed
22:00:59  <frosch123> hmm, eints failed to get r27953?
22:01:01  <andythenorth> no frosch123 for a bit then?
22:01:15  <frosch123> yep, no frosch till next year
22:01:28  <andythenorth> a whole yar
22:01:29  <andythenorth> year *
22:02:37  <frosch123> why did eints fail... :/
22:03:34  <LordAro> oh no
22:04:12  <andythenorth> power blips have set house alarms off :|
22:04:14  <andythenorth> very annoying
22:04:18  <andythenorth> not mine
22:04:38  <frosch123> committed too fast or something
22:04:41  <glx> frosch123: anyway a space was missing before ":" in french ;)
22:04:44  <frosch123> eints still has the old wokring copy
22:05:45  <frosch123> oh, french puts NBSP there
22:05:58  <glx> yup
22:06:04  <frosch123> well, my regex did not account for that :p
22:06:29  <andythenorth> good luck :)
22:06:31  <andythenorth> have fun
22:06:34  <andythenorth> see you in a year
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22:08:05  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27954 trunk/src/fileio.cpp (2017-12-27 23:07:59 +0100 )
22:08:06  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup [FS#6644]: Remove unused function (M3Henry)
22:08:58  <frosch123> it's always good to have some fs task around to fix eints :p
22:09:55  <frosch123> glx: you may have to change the translation again
22:10:16  <glx> :)
22:10:27  <frosch123> STR_INDUSTRY_VIEW_ACCEPT_CARGO_AMOUNT
22:11:16  <glx> I was on it but decided to return to main page first
22:14:42  <glx> both fixed
22:22:53  <Wolf01> Bah, more than 100 construction robots stuck somewhere because they chose the short path and they don't have enough charge to get near another roboport, so they start from the latest one and continue to go back to it to recharge
22:26:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:43:03  <Samu> hmm fixing bugs
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