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Log for #openttd on 27th January 2018:
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00:07:54  <ST2> damn, only reading that filename I could see a TLOTR movie ^^
00:08:05  <ST2> but great effort you're doing Samu :)
00:08:09  <ST2> kudos ^^
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00:08:34  <J4binotto> Hello
00:09:25  <ST2> hi :)
00:09:50  <J4binotto> :)
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00:11:35  <ST2> bye o/
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00:33:58  <Samu> hi st2
00:34:01  <Samu> 18_large_plane_on_short_runway__added_vehicle_setting_with_proc_gui_strings_afterload_conversion_and_savegame_version_bump.patch
00:34:15  <Samu> descriptive enough, i hope
00:34:53  <LordAro> 80 characters as a guide
00:34:59  <LordAro> this is too much
00:35:12  <LordAro> complete sentences are unnecessary
00:36:20  <Samu> i know, i know, i'll rename it later. for now i need to do it this way
00:36:34  <Samu> need to get things under control
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01:10:20  <Samu> uhm what happened?
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01:18:06  <Samu> LordAro: https://imgur.com/idQ4jJx - take a look
01:18:24  <Samu> now i can work on shortening the names
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01:36:51  <Samu> cyas, take care LordAro , and thx for the help once again. bedtime
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07:38:01  <PressureLine> blech
07:38:46  <PressureLine> how much 'leftover' horsepower should I allow for?
07:39:11  <PressureLine> (leftover being calculated based on level gound)
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09:39:56  <andythenorth> o/
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10:29:32  <Wolf01> Moin
10:30:27  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
10:30:32  <andythenorth> is it a codey kind of day?
10:30:40  <Wolf01> Maybe
10:34:06  <andythenorth> I just cleaned up some work code
10:35:02  <andythenorth> Wolf01: if we set small goal, allow overbuilding town IFF label is 'ROAD'?
10:35:08  <andythenorth> deal with the owner stuff later
10:35:12  <andythenorth> one step at a time?
10:35:23  <Wolf01> Could be
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10:39:10  <Wolf01> I'll make a new branch: overbuild-town
10:39:44  <andythenorth> vool
10:39:46  <andythenorth> cool *
10:39:52  <Wolf01> wool
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10:51:37  <Borg> BUG!!!!!!!!!!
10:51:50  <Borg> inconsistency in Industry 0x68 variable
10:51:58  <Borg> when no town filter is applied
10:52:30  <Borg> all industries of given type are counted..
10:52:45  <Borg> but if you want to count industry of given town.. current industry is NOT counted!
10:57:53  <Eddi|zuHause> voll cool?
11:23:44  <Wolf01> andythenorth: done
11:23:57  <Wolf01> (I've eat lunch meanwhile)
11:26:05  * andythenorth fetches
11:28:32  <andythenorth> seems to work :)
11:28:41  <Wolf01> Tried in multiplayer, every player can only convert owned and town roads, and only roads (no trams)
11:29:04  <Wolf01> Convert trams works only for owned trams
11:29:44  <Wolf01> ... since there isn't a town owner tram
11:30:30  <Wolf01> It still won't change the ownership, player A can convert town road, player B can convert it again
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11:34:01  <Wolf01> o/
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11:44:38  <Borg> okey! my weird GRF w/ electric power need starts to working
11:44:55  <Borg> unfortunately.. its limited to town zones.. so you need to cover power plants per town, not globally
11:45:07  <debdog> s/GRF/GF/
11:48:34  <Wolf01> Mmmh, train derailed 2 days ago: engineer didn't notice anything weird, he might even accelerated, passengers noticed vibrations, sparks and smoke, but noone activated the emergency brake, I would trial everyone on that train for collusion.
11:49:40  <Wolf01> The train could have stopped in less than 800m, instead it ended the travel literally around an electric pole
11:49:48  <Wolf01> 2.6km after the derailment
11:54:32  <Alberth> o/
11:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that's how mankind works... "is it supposed to spark and smoke like that? whatever, it's someone else's problem"
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11:59:40  <Wolf01> That's because they are a bunch of idiots, I bet noone even warned the conductor (which might have been in the front car) or they didn't activate the brake to avoid getting a fine
12:02:27  <__ln__> Wolf01: some similarities to <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidente_di_Eschede> then; conductor was notified, but it wasn't company policy to use the emergency brake
12:02:40  <Wolf01> WTF
12:03:55  <Borg> ;)
12:04:56  <Wolf01> "conductor to engineer: you arrived alone, the train derailed"... looks like a short horror story... which indeed it is
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12:06:30  <Samu> hi
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12:12:52  <andythenorth> so what's the deal with ownership?
12:12:58  <andythenorth> player takes ownership?
12:13:08  <Wolf01> No
12:13:37  <Wolf01> Ownership isn't changed, player just converts city roads or with no owner
12:14:49  <Borg> okey.. testing it now.. seems to works :)
12:16:19  <Borg> http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/~borg/tmp/ind_need_power.png
12:16:23  <Eddi|zuHause> so you convert a road with no owner, and it still has no owner after that?
12:17:25  <Alberth> company policy not to own streets
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12:31:30  <andythenorth> if I convert town street, another player can convert it again?
12:31:42  <andythenorth> does compatibility have to escalate?
12:33:02  <Wolf01> Converting a owner_none road might be the case where you get the ownership, with town owned roads we might try the compatibility escalation thing
12:34:21  <Wolf01> Compatibility as FLAGS & new FLAGS == FLAGS? So you can add features but not remove them?
12:35:02  <Wolf01> No, some features might be limitations, like "no level crossings" or "no intersections" or even "no tunnel/bridge"
12:36:32  <Samu> Alberth: are u a commit master?
12:36:37  <Samu> expert
12:37:11  <Samu> this is my slicing work complete: https://imgur.com/idQ4jJx
12:37:26  <Samu> it needs the names to be shortened
12:38:09  <Alberth> quite :)
12:39:19  <Samu> care to download them to take a look? before I venture further
12:40:44  <Alberth> I am busy atm
12:40:50  <Samu> oh ok
12:40:53  <Samu> :(
12:41:42  <Alberth> patch 20 and 21 are just 1 line adding a string?
12:42:15  <Samu> no, they're used on that function
12:42:30  <Samu> CmdInsertOrder, CmdCloneOrder
12:42:40  <Samu> sec, i copy paste
12:42:54  <Alberth> I see, seems fine then
12:43:13  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pmagjxrkt
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12:44:56  <Alberth> yes, that makes sense as patch
12:44:57  <Alberth> hola
12:46:39  <frosch123> moi
12:50:37  <Wolf01> Quak
12:54:06  <andythenorth> Wolf01: yeah the compatibility is still brain breaking
12:54:14  <andythenorth> if it's my road, it's easy
12:54:19  <andythenorth> if it's town road...eh?
12:54:23  <andythenorth> no idea
12:55:33  <Alberth> don't allow to change it?
12:58:23  <Alberth> likely one would like to configure the road type in cities, but that's about it
12:59:19  <Alberth> you can demolish the road, and replace it with your own, if you really insist
13:01:46  <andythenorth> overbuilding appears to be required
13:01:53  <andythenorth> unfortunately
13:02:46  <Alberth> only with the same road type?
13:03:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the grf author should make a flag "can be used as town road"
13:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> which implies town will use this for expansion, houses can be built next to it, and player can upgrade town roads to that type
13:05:03  <Alberth> nicely solves the "one has to specify the road type used by towns"
13:05:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (not sure if that solves any problems)
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13:19:04  <andythenorth> on 7th Jan Wolf01 we thought player might take ownership of road if overbuilding
13:19:10  <andythenorth> as the least bad of the options
13:19:16  * andythenorth kept notes :P
13:19:33  <Wolf01> Mmmh
13:19:45  <andythenorth> it's fine, until player removes the road
13:20:13  <andythenorth> maybe that's a permissible exploit
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13:22:09  <Wolf01> What if there's a roadstop on the road?
13:22:28  <Wolf01> Ok, maybe wrong question
13:23:31  <andythenorth> under what conditions can I remove town roads, in current game? o_O
13:23:44  <Wolf01> You can remove town roads if happy enough
13:23:59  <andythenorth> and under what conditions can I remove my own roads, in current game?
13:24:05  <Wolf01> Always
13:24:15  <andythenorth> so that's the problem to resolve then
13:24:20  <Alberth> junctions are a bit problematic in cities
13:24:24  <andythenorth> those two can't both be true in NRT
13:24:49  <Wolf01> Are you currently able to build a roadstop on a competitor road?
13:27:45  <andythenorth> yes
13:27:47  <andythenorth> just tried in MP
13:32:23  <Wolf01> What could happen if competitor removes road?
13:33:59  <Eddi|zuHause> a roadstop must have either road or tram under it
13:34:56  <Wolf01> So you can't remove the last piece of road until the competitor builds at least a tram rail?
13:34:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're trying to solve a problem that a) doesn't really need solving and b) doesn't really have a solution
13:36:13  <Wolf01> BTW, I would keep the town owner and let any player upgrade the road with a compatible type, if the road had owner_none then you get ownership, first arrive gets served first
13:38:02  <andythenorth> so any other player can over-build the town roads, breaking my routes?
13:38:08  <andythenorth> might be fine
13:38:24  <andythenorth> just needs a choice made about which of the insolvables we accept
13:38:52  <Wolf01> Yes, but only with a compatible type, so they can't convert electric to non-electric for example
13:39:41  <Wolf01> But stone paved+electric -> asphalt+electric is possible, even asphalt -> stone paved, you might slow down vehicles but you won't break anything
13:40:02  <Wolf01> It still remain the problem to set the oneway roads
13:40:27  <Wolf01> Could we make a new tool to require ownership?
13:40:53  <Wolf01> So you can get the ownership by purchasing the road without even converting it?
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13:41:50  <Alberth> convert to the same type?
13:41:53  <Wolf01> It still applies the checks for town road removal, so if town is unhappy you can purchase ownership
13:42:03  <Wolf01> You can't convert to the same type
13:42:18  <andythenorth> so is there some kind of union of labels for compatibility?
13:42:27  <andythenorth> as long as compatibility is only added, never removed
13:42:32  <andythenorth> there is no problem
13:42:38  <Wolf01> [...]so if town is unhappy you can purchase ownership <- can't
13:42:46  <andythenorth> there might be speed limit griefing, but I don't care about that
13:42:59  <Alberth> you can always build a road around the town
13:43:17  <Wolf01> Like a highway :D
13:49:06  <andythenorth> so town keeps owner?
13:49:22  <andythenorth> I can convert road, but can only remove it if standard town condition is met?
13:49:59  <andythenorth> it's a long-standing game mechanic that town owns town roads
13:50:13  <andythenorth> changing it...would need a reason
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14:04:13  <Samu> i can't use these patches with tortoisesvn's own apply patch?
14:04:19  <Samu> why
14:05:31  <Borg> because you dont have commit access
14:05:45  <Borg> SVN is centralized
14:06:01  <Wolf01> Mmmh, how do I convert _current_company to Owner?
14:06:23  <Samu> wow, it created this 'b' folder
14:07:19  <Samu> b/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp
14:07:25  <Samu> it took that b literally
14:07:33  <Borg> you need to use -p1
14:08:13  <Samu> where?
14:08:19  <Samu> forgive, i'm still noob
14:11:35  <Borg> in patch apply...
14:12:01  <Borg> okey! electric power for secondary industries completed! and it works
14:12:19  <Borg> single powerstation can provide power up to 5 secondary industries working at 100%
14:16:08  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I'm a special kind of stupid
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14:31:28  <Samu> i don't get it. i can't use these patches with tortoisesvn? then why am i doing this?
14:31:39  <Samu> what the hell am I doing!'
14:32:21  <LordAro> drop the dramatics, it's tiring
14:33:11  <Samu> ok
14:33:24  <LordAro> you can apply these patches
14:33:29  <LordAro> (in the correct order)
14:33:34  <LordAro> you cannot commit these patches
14:34:16  <Samu> it created a b folder
14:34:53  <Samu> b/src/filenameshere instead of src/filenameshere
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14:36:26  <Samu> tortoisesvn then even thinks I added this 'b' into the working copy, that it belongs to it
14:36:27  <LordAro> yes, because hg & git use a slightly different way of listing the files in a patch
14:36:44  <LordAro> the question is, why have you gone back to tortoisesvn?
14:37:32  <Samu> because i thought i could use the patches with svn
14:38:24  <LordAro> why do you want to?
14:38:42  <LordAro> you certainly can, but there might not be a simple GUI way of doing so
14:39:13  <Alberth> hi hi Lord
14:39:17  <LordAro> o/ Alberth
14:40:16  <Samu> i was trying to apply all the patches one by one, to see if i would end with the same result as that one big patch i posted in the forum
14:40:40  <Samu> was going to make sure I didn't miss anything, but I can't even patch properly
14:41:00  <Alberth> Samu: hg and git have made steps in improving the patch file format, so the patches they use are slightly different from what older tools like svn assume
14:41:51  <Alberth> they are compatible if you strip one prefix from the filenames
14:42:32  <Alberth> if you use patch from the command -line, it's   patch -p1 < mypatchfile.patch
14:43:21  <Alberth> if you use a GUI, you should look for an option to set how many leading directory levels should be removed (ie 1)
14:44:16  <Alberth> but euhm, hg is already a useful version control system, why do you want to use a less flexible one instead?
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14:46:13  <LordAro> as far as i can tell from some searching, tortoisemerge isn't sophisticated enough to be able to strip prefixes
14:46:32  <Samu> i'm gonna post the patches in the forum, may I ask someone to try patch them? It's unknown territory for me
14:48:40  <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77246&p=1201778#p1201778
14:48:42  <Alberth> make a copy of the patch, and edit the "a/" and "b/" prefixes out of it
14:48:57  <Samu> i dont know how to patch with tortoisehg
14:49:00  <Alberth> ie it's a textfile
14:49:14  <Samu> i managed to create patches with tortoisehg
14:49:18  <Samu> but how to apply?
14:49:39  <Alberth> read about hg import
14:50:57  <LordAro> Samu: "tortoisehg apply patch"
14:51:06  <LordAro> type that into your nearest search engine
14:51:17  <Alberth> my  thg has "Repostory -> Import patches"
14:52:42  <Samu> i found it
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15:00:51  <Wolf01> How many owners do I need to set on a tunnel?
15:01:25  <Wolf01> I'm already converting the first and the end tile
15:02:31  <Wolf01> Bridge too
15:04:41  <Samu> i can't patch yet
15:04:44  <Samu> brb
15:04:52  <Rubidium> Wolf01: 7?
15:05:15  <Wolf01> Wut?
15:05:20  <Samu> recycle bin solves many of my problems
15:05:48  <Rubidium> owner of tunnel, owner of road in tunnel, owner of tram in tunnel, owner of station in tunnel, owner of road on tunnel entrance, owner of tram on tunnel entrance and the owner of the station on the tunnel entrance
15:06:51  <Wolf01> There could be a station on tunnel and on tunnel entrance?
15:07:32  <Rubidium> why not?
15:08:10  <Wolf01> Never noticed that
15:08:11  <Rubidium> if you want to do TTDP things, do them better
15:11:19  <Eddi|zuHause> what rubidium meant to say: it's not possible, but maybe it should be.
15:12:11  <Eddi|zuHause> of which the proper response is: "this is outside the scope of this patch" :p
15:12:56  <Alberth> bummer, no underground subways :p
15:13:08  <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=201234 is this going to patch correctly?
15:13:32  <Alberth> try it if you want to know
15:14:11  <Samu> i tried, now i see 23+23 revisions
15:14:27  <Samu> well, i saw, i just recycle bin'ed the entire folder
15:14:31  <Wolf01> Then the proper thing is to just change the roadtype ownership for now? So an owner_none bridge is still owned by noone but the road could be owned by player A and tram by player B
15:15:23  <Wolf01> It might lead to problems, I need to check if it's possible to demolish a bridge with 2 different owners
15:16:03  <Eddi|zuHause> you want to separate bridge owner from road owner?
15:17:11  <Samu> tortoisehg seems to overcomplicate things
15:18:03  <Alberth> I'd rather say svn tends to over-simplify what it should do
15:18:06  <Wolf01> Mmmh, strange things happen: bridge owner: none, road owner: A, B can't build tram, if bridge owner: A B can build tram
15:19:31  <Samu> it logs every single thing as a revision and doesn't let me revert almost anything
15:19:32  <Wolf01> I think I neet to change tunnelbridge infrastructure owner too or it gets inconsistent
15:19:36  <Wolf01> *need
15:20:01  <Samu> good things there's the recycle bin
15:21:30  <Samu> i don't feel like recycle binning every time i need to test something
15:21:36  <Samu> or revert something
15:21:41  <Samu> it's ... too stricty
15:22:26  <Alberth> hg commit --amend
15:22:47  <Samu> amend doesn't remove 23 revisions
15:23:15  <Alberth> why would you want to?
15:23:46  <Samu> was gonna import the 23 patches
15:24:22  <Samu> i wanted to delete the other 23, but coudln't
15:24:34  <Samu> so it applied 23 more revisions on top of the others 23
15:24:52  <Alberth> male a clone of the repository first
15:24:58  <Alberth> *make
15:25:26  <Alberth> you can make as many copies as you like, unlike svn
15:26:11  <Alberth> and since it's just a bunch of files in a directory, deleting a repository is also easy
15:26:34  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I need to test anything for you?
15:27:18  <Samu> a clone of a clone?
15:27:19  <Wolf01> I'm trying to understand how to set the entire infrastructure ownership and not only the road
15:27:56  <Alberth> Samu: if you like, sure
15:28:21  <Wolf01> Tunnelbridge doesn't seem to have enough helper functions, maybe because we didn't need to change the owner, until now
15:28:41  <Alberth> I have around 20 clones of openttd hg repository
15:28:46  <Samu> first clone is from https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/
15:29:15  <Alberth> yeah, use that only to get new updates from openttd
15:29:16  <Samu> ah, i get it
15:29:36  <Alberth> then when you want to work on something, make a clone of your first clone
15:30:00  <Alberth> if you want to work on a second thing, make a new clone of the first clone
15:30:04  <Alberth> etc
15:30:20  <Samu> ah, i see
15:31:12  <Alberth> your clones that you work on have your first clone as parent, just as your first clone has openttd as parent
15:31:41  <Alberth> so an update from a work-clone will get updates from your first clone
15:31:52  <Alberth> unless you tell it to do otherwise of course
15:31:59  <Samu> working with vistual studio is gonna be complicated
15:32:20  <Alberth> I have that problem with Windows software in general :p
15:33:18  <Samu> i have to copy my personal project folder into every clone if i want to edit files from there
15:33:59  <Samu> tortoisesvn was so much easier :(
15:34:05  <Samu> i only had to do it once
15:34:20  <Wolf01> Once you get used everything is easier
15:34:45  <Alberth> hg is just different
15:35:24  <Alberth> but I am sure someone has already had the same problem, maybe search for solutions on the Internet
15:35:39  <Alberth> ie you are definitely not the first person using visual studio with hg
15:36:39  <Alberth> the simple solution is to do like svn, always have only one clone
15:37:40  <Samu> or maybe, i can fool visual studio
15:38:01  <Samu> i rename folders, and hope tortoisehg doesn't get messed up with all the renamings
15:38:06  <Alberth> like I said, I would expect it's a solved problem, look for the answer
15:38:09  <LordAro> Samu: what's in your personal project folder? can it not be set at the user level?
15:39:15  <Samu> i need to have a copy of D:\OpenTTD\trunk\projects\openttd_vs140.sln
15:39:37  <Samu> i can't use the real one that comes with trunk
15:40:22  <Samu> i needed to edit it to make it work, due to lib files and stuff like that
15:40:41  <Samu> OpenTTD essentials
15:40:43  <Samu> this thing
15:41:05  <Wolf01> andythenorth: pushed
15:41:52  <Samu> https://www.openttd.org/en/download-openttd-useful/6.0
15:41:58  <Wolf01> See if it fits your needs and doesn't break things, I didn't check for compatibility yet
15:42:08  <Wolf01> At least not complete compatibility
15:43:19  <Samu> set at the user level? what does that mean'
15:43:42  <Wolf01> That only the current logged user sees that
15:44:03  <Wolf01> As different users may have different settings
15:44:23  <Samu> what u mean different users? it's only me on this computer
15:45:03  <Wolf01> Then set it only to your user anyway
15:45:55  <Samu> i have no idea what you're talking about :(
15:46:13  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I'm afk for a bit, but will look later :D
15:46:36  <Samu> sec
15:46:49  <Alberth> time's up!
15:47:45  <Samu> ok, here's what I need to edit on that project folder
15:47:46  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgisqpmga
15:48:10  <Samu> if i dont have this, it won't compile
15:48:30  <Wolf01> Use the userproj file, don't edit the project
15:49:01  <Samu> userproj file, hmm where is that?
15:51:09  <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pncdrcbzp
15:52:26  <Wolf01> Make that file, copy the stuff into it, put the paths in the variables on windows or just put the paths there, put the file in the same folder as the project file and reopen the project. Done.
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16:01:13  <Thedarkb1> Will OpenTTD use a new version of libicu in the next update?
16:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> will there be a next update?
16:01:53  <Samu> brb
16:01:58  <Thedarkb1> Good question.....
16:02:26  <Wolf01> There must be one, I'm preparing the announce for 1st april
16:02:55  <Thedarkb1> I remember updates being a lot more frequent.
16:03:46  <Samu> trying to build
16:16:08  <Samu> very nice, thx Wolf01 I didn't know how this was done
16:25:17  <Thedarkb1> Where do I put OpenMSX?
16:25:20  <Thedarkb1> .openttd?
16:25:28  <Thedarkb1> I tried there and it didn't see it.
16:26:21  <LordAro> Thedarkb1: the readme will tell you
16:26:24  <LordAro> section 4.2ish
16:26:37  <LordAro> alternatively, download it via content download
16:26:40  <LordAro> which will handle it for you
16:28:27  <Thedarkb1> It appears but won't play.
16:28:36  <Thedarkb1> I assume I need timidity.
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16:38:49  <LordAro> yeah, it's a bit finicky
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17:06:09  <Samu> how do I create  a unified diff?
17:08:41  <Samu> inflexible program:(
17:09:51  <Samu> it didn't record the branching tree?
17:11:31  <Samu> I don't understand why I'm using this program. It's not doing what I want
17:11:59  <Samu> @logs
17:11:59  <DorpsGek> Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
17:13:11  <Samu> https://imgur.com/J54zihH that graph wasn't recorded in the patch files?
17:13:30  <Samu> all that was for nothing
17:13:55  <Samu> i could have done the same with tortoisesvn
17:14:26  <Samu> if I can't keep the order which the patches are to be applied, I don't need tortoisehg for anything...
17:16:29  <Samu> where did I fail?
17:18:36  <Alberth> so you have actually 15 or 16 patch queues?
17:19:28  <Samu> i patched everything and all i get now is a straight line
17:20:17  <Alberth> yes, a patch queue stacks on top of eg trunk, and has one top-most revision, and a straight line otherwise
17:20:43  <Alberth> possibly with a few diamond-like sub-graphs
17:21:06  <Alberth> where the branch diverted into different directions, and got merged again
17:21:19  <Alberth> hence my question, so you have actually 15 or 16 patch queues?
17:22:27  <Samu> i dont understand the question, I have this https://imgur.com/a/Z3AZi
17:23:28  <Alberth> each line that begins at 'trunk' at the bottom, and ends in a head where it doesn't continue further is one patch queue, to me
17:23:36  <Alberth> I count 15 or 16 such heads
17:23:45  <Alberth> so 15 or 16 patch queues?
17:26:13  <Alberth> the patch that ends as 22749 and the one ending at 22752 have only 'trunk' in common, so they are independent of each other relative to trunk
17:26:33  <Alberth> you have many such patch queues
17:26:59  <Samu> ah
17:29:46  <Samu> ok gonna try count
17:30:38  <Samu> 13?
17:31:36  <Samu> but that was yesterday, today I only got a straigth line
17:33:27  <Samu> that information wasn't recorded?
17:34:12  <Alberth> a patch file only contains changes from revision n-1 to revision n
17:35:09  <Alberth> it's place in a repository is not recorded, since it may change
17:35:42  <Alberth> if you update openttd, and apply a patch a second time, you don't want the patch where it was originally
17:36:07  <Alberth> you want it on top of the new updates instead
17:36:33  <Alberth> similarly, another user that tries your patches may have a different history in the repository
17:36:56  <Alberth> or possibly even a totally different setup
17:38:16  <Alberth> eg JGR has a much different openttd version, so the original position makes no sense there
17:39:39  <Samu> seems to be another case of failing to understand the purpose of the program
17:40:46  <Samu> how do I send/create a patch queue to another person?
17:41:11  <Alberth> distributed version control (what hg and git are doing) is not a simple subject
17:41:13  <Samu> i thought tortoisehg could do that, but...
17:42:31  <Alberth> standard practice is to publish the repository, and send an email to the other person pointing to the copy and a revision number
17:43:29  <Samu> not quite what I wanted
17:43:48  <Samu> was planning to post in a forum for others
17:45:03  <Alberth> maybe mq could work for you?
17:45:29  <Alberth> which is basically a stack of patch files that you can edit under control of hg
17:46:00  <Alberth> the patches are not actually in the repository, they are kept on disk in .hg/patches
17:47:58  <Alberth> another option is to use hg diff to generate a patch file between two revisions
17:48:53  <Alberth> then you get 1 file with all changes between the revisions that you specify
17:49:35  <Alberth> obviously, if you give a revision N, and N+1 to hg diff, you get exactly the diff for revision N+1
17:56:26  <andythenorth> Wolf01: seems I can build HAUL over town road? o_O
17:56:39  <andythenorth> is compatibility implemented? o_O
17:56:44  <Wolf01> Yes, I didn't check compatibility
17:57:01  <Wolf01> Only normal->electric-/->normal
17:57:11  <Wolf01> At least
17:57:39  <Wolf01> We need also that "use as town road" flag
17:57:47  <Wolf01> But that's another branch
17:58:51  <Wolf01> Also if frosch123 has some ideas on how to check compatibility, that would be welcome :P
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18:04:31  <Samu> i give up
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18:08:33  <LordAro> Alberth: i think you made some progress :>
18:09:22  <Alberth> hope so, at least more than my type/value experiment :p
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18:17:53  <Alberth> wb
18:18:02  <Samu> sorry Alberth, sorry LordAro
18:18:06  <Samu> uninstalled it
18:18:11  <Samu> too much for my head
18:19:07  <Alberth> version control is not something you grasp immediately, it takes time to understand
18:19:19  <Alberth> you may want to run too fast here
18:20:13  <Alberth> try a single patch or a patch queue of 2 patches or so first, so you get some experience
18:20:56  <Alberth> and no worries, I fail too, I tried some type checking today from a template, and that horribly failed :p
18:21:32  <Alberth> I take it as a failed experiment, and try again tomorrow, avoiding what I learned today
18:23:56  <Samu> i think i know what I have to do for now
18:24:15  <Samu> at least under tortoisesvn
18:25:21  <Samu> the only advantage I saw on tortoisehg was the ability to update to revisions of my stuff
18:25:35  <Samu> on svn i don't think i can do that
18:27:44  <LordAro> aye
18:27:48  <LordAro> no local commits on svn
18:30:01  <Samu> Repository Browser
18:30:01  <Alberth> do you want to know how to do this in svn?  it's more complicated than hg :)
18:30:23  <Samu> yes pls, it was a useful feature
18:30:56  <Alberth> well, you asked.... :)
18:31:41  <Alberth> make a branch with updates of openttd in a local svn repository
18:32:17  <Alberth> from that branch, make new branches with your patches (one per patch queue)
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18:32:28  <Alberth> ie you'll have 15-ish branches
18:33:00  <Alberth> svn won't allow changes to existing commits, so you can only add new ones to your patches
18:33:32  <Alberth> if openttd updates, copy the changes to the openttd branch, then merge that change to all patch branches
18:34:34  <LordAro> "hardest" bit will be making a local svn repo
18:34:53  <Alberth> it is?
18:34:54  <frosch123> LordAro: looks like your std::sort patch is obsolete with c++20's <=> operator :p
18:35:02  <Alberth> lol :D
18:35:10  <LordAro> frosch123: ono
18:36:10  <Alberth> we wouldn't use c++20 before say 2030 or so, right?
18:36:51  <Samu> how to make a local svn repo? :p
18:37:53  <Samu> TortoiseSVN > Export... ?
18:38:06  <frosch123> it says c++20 removes some "long standing" restrictions from c++11's lambdas :p
18:38:23  <Alberth> haha :)
18:38:37  <LordAro> Samu: this is not something you'll be able to do from tortoise
18:38:47  <Alberth> I haven't gotten around using them at all :p
18:38:56  <LordAro> they're great :)
18:39:23  <Alberth> I know, I use  lambda x: ..    in Python quite often
18:39:47  <Alberth> even though the language doesn't quite agree with that
18:47:39  <Alberth> although, in Lua, they were used for co-routines in a game, with the nice benefit that the captured variables are no longer accessible from the outside, for changing in a loaded savegame :p
18:48:50  <Samu> ok screw it
18:52:48  <Samu> tortoise is busy, doing something. I told it to 'Add folder'
18:55:41  <andythenorth> Wolf01: what would happen if road could have two owners
18:55:44  <andythenorth> ?
18:55:53  <andythenorth> resp. town and player
18:58:52  <Alberth> how is such a road different being owned by just the player?
19:01:12  <andythenorth> can't be bulldozed
19:01:20  <andythenorth> town restricts demolition
19:04:26  <Samu> svn repository, bah
19:04:31  <Samu> can't work with it too
19:04:36  <Samu> i fail at repositories
19:05:40  <Borg> Samu: how old are u ? 15 ?
19:05:44  <Samu> no
19:05:48  <Borg> u complain like little girl ;)
19:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> how long do i have my ignore list entry now?
19:08:16  <Samu> 36 i think
19:08:33  <Samu> i dont bother with my birthdays any more
19:12:54  <andythenorth> little boys complain too
19:12:56  <andythenorth> trust me
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19:25:34  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I tried 2 owners with tunnel/bridges... weird thing, I wouldn't spread it to normal road
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19:41:46  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I was thinking of a bit initially
19:41:52  <andythenorth> road owner is still town
19:42:04  <andythenorth> but if converted once, road can't be converted again
19:42:13  <andythenorth> but that doesn't work, would want to know owner
19:42:23  <Wolf01> Oh, that mithycal 5th bit proposed some days ago?
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19:55:17  <andythenorth> yes
19:55:36  <andythenorth> I play single player without aggressive AIs
19:55:46  <andythenorth> so I would never see the problem of over-building
19:56:15  <andythenorth> but I assume that players will hate the griefing if I can trivially destroy their network with overbuilding
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20:05:04  <Borg> add option.. that u can destroy tracks/road of players/ai when you have 75% shares!
20:05:07  <Borg> ;)
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20:45:26  <Borg> so ? noone? want to test my electric industries? ;)
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22:58:39  <Wolf01> 'night
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