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Log for #openttd on 12th February 2018:
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10:09:16  <Samu> HI
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10:36:39  <Samu_> guys, can GS retrieve company colours? I couldn't find anything about it at https://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.7.2/
10:37:14  <Samu_> or is there a special {STRING] alike to get colors
10:37:35  <Samu_> {STRING}*
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10:40:32  <Wolf01> o/
10:44:58  <__ln__> \o
10:45:05  <__ln__> national holiday?
10:45:20  <Wolf01> Flu, terminally ill
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11:09:27  <Samu_> colours! https://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.7.2/classGSWindow.html#b7a0e8ae4f61217929b75f9e30ed09de
11:09:59  <Samu_> how to retrieve company colour now ? :(
11:10:45  <Eddi|zuHause> those are not the colours you are looking for *handwave*
11:25:08  <peter1138> RGB company colours!
11:25:17  <peter1138> Someone had a patch for that, 5-6 years ago...
11:27:39  <Samu_> i wanted GS's to find out which colour a company has
11:27:43  <Samu_> main colour
11:28:04  <Samu_> GSCompany.GetColour or something is missing
11:31:08  <peter1138> Not sure how it would be useful.
11:46:26  <Samu_> it would be useful here https://imgur.com/8eYMKKt
11:46:57  <Samu_> global goals listing, with the nice [##] colour scheme
11:47:40  <Samu_> to quickly identify companies/players/vehicles
12:08:07  <peter1138> Well, a company colour blob done by company ID would work better than pulling out the company colour directly
12:08:20  <peter1138> May already be one
12:08:22  <peter1138> (string ID i mean)
12:08:29  <peter1138> (Or character)
12:12:10  <Samu_> blob?
12:27:23  <peter1138> Eh...
12:27:43  <peter1138> {COMPANYCOLOUR} text id thing whatever they're called
12:38:05  <Samu_> i was searching for that, but there isn't
12:38:27  <Samu_> doesn't seem to exist
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12:43:17  <Samu_> looked at strgen_tables.h and string.cpp and control_codes.h
12:45:34  <peter1138> Yeah, so make a patch. Doing it the string way is better than making the GS retrieve the colours though.
12:46:39  <Samu_> wow, "make a patch", first time i don't see "make a newgrf" coming from devs
12:47:06  <peter1138> Sure.
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14:20:45  <Wolf01> I feel like the poor trucks at level crossing with maglev :|
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14:29:51  <supermop_work_> yo
14:38:02  <supermop_work_> this year's strain, same as we have in US wolf?
14:38:21  <supermop_work_> i had it end of december, was brutal
14:38:34  <supermop_work_> never been so sick with a flu before
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14:39:56  <Wolf01> I had been really sick the past year, and I was waiting for this one to hit, I already dodged 3 flus in 3 months
14:41:09  <supermop_work_> i pretty much just laid in bed
14:45:19  <Wolf01> Me too, but I have to move sometimes because everything starts to ache
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14:58:24  <Eddi|zuHause> can't be much worse than my teeth
14:58:45  <Eddi|zuHause> (just returned from the dentist)
14:58:46  <Wolf01> Exceps when all your 31 teeth ache because of fever
14:58:51  <Wolf01> *except
14:59:03  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't know how my teeth feel like
15:14:25  <supermop_work_> did the dentist take all of your teeth out?
15:15:21  <Wolf01> Maybe he pushed some more in
15:15:35  <supermop_work_> so wolf, do  i need to ask frog for new nml to use no_houses?
15:15:46  <Wolf01> Nah, better ask the cat
15:16:03  <supermop_work_> no binaries from cat, least not yet
15:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the dentist insisted there's only one tooth at fault, but it sure feels like all of them hurt
15:16:44  <supermop_work_> get a gold one
15:16:45  <Wolf01> Or compile it yourself
15:16:53  <supermop_work_> maybe iridium
15:17:20  <Wolf01> One with a cyanide capsule
15:17:37  <Wolf01> Mmmmh, icecream
15:17:47  <supermop_work_> maybe not in irridium then unless you've got a powerful jaw
15:18:00  <supermop_work_> ice cream capsule in tooth?
15:18:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood those cyanide tooth thing, sounds like something that is way too likely to go off unintended
15:21:33  <supermop_work_> first time i saw that, was reading dune as a kid
15:21:49  <supermop_work_> and i thought 'this doesn't make sense'
15:21:58  <supermop_work_> and sure enough it didn't work
15:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was in a james bond movie
15:22:20  <supermop_work_> spoilers for the first dune book i guess
15:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i never read the books
15:22:40  <supermop_work_> if you haven't read it in the last 50 years
15:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't matter how old a book is
15:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause> there's always someone who never read it, but intends to
15:23:25  <supermop_work_> i should read them again i guess
15:26:19  <Wolf01> Me too
15:26:29  <Wolf01> Nut only the first 2... the others are too much weird
15:26:35  <Wolf01> But
15:26:50  <supermop_work_> i think i read 6
15:27:04  <supermop_work_> ithink the guys son wrote some more after those
15:27:09  <Wolf01> Yep, I read 6 too
15:27:29  <supermop_work_> yeah the late ones are quite a rabbit hole
15:28:11  <supermop_work_> also come one someone over those 4000 years has to have built himself a little computer somewhere
15:28:19  <supermop_work_> *come on
15:28:38  <Wolf01> They had mentats, why do they needed computers?
15:28:58  <Eddi|zuHause> they have chinese people in the basement remembering numbers?
15:29:08  <Wolf01> Sort of
15:29:08  <supermop_work_> basically
15:29:23  <supermop_work_> thats like how their galactic economy works
15:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, our global economy works on computers from the 70s running COBOL...
15:30:09  <supermop_work_> most things a computer would do, like accounting or navigation, is just a specialized person raised from birth to do that task
15:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't one of the central cores of that whole universe that for navigation you need this "spice" drug?
15:30:57  <supermop_work_> yeah
15:31:39  <supermop_work_> but if you just used a damn computer you wouldn't need people out of their minds on spice to do all your calculations
15:32:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a way less interesting universe :p
15:32:28  <supermop_work_> but computers are illegal
15:32:59  <Eddi|zuHause> how can they be illegal if nobody ever built one?
15:33:32  <supermop_work_> they had a jihad some 1000+ years in the past against computers and robots
15:33:43  <Wolf01> Oh they built many, also AIs, that's why they were illegal
15:34:19  <Wolf01> AIs are bad
15:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know nearly enough lore around dune
15:34:30  <supermop_work_> there is one planet that is basically a secret guild that is hinted to have kept or redeveloped some computers, and which supplies basic technology
15:35:29  <Eddi|zuHause> so this is a post-singularity universe, where the humans won out over the sentient robots
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15:40:44  <supermop_work_> more or less
15:42:16  <supermop_work_> humans are not very unified though, and
15:43:25  <supermop_work_> i think maybe first 3 are worth a shot?
15:43:39  <supermop_work_> 4-6 certainly are different
15:43:51  <supermop_work_> and i recall them being depressing
15:44:28  <Wolf01> Poor Duncan
15:44:30  <supermop_work_> this was like 22 or so years ago though
15:44:35  <supermop_work_> so who know
15:46:29  <supermop_work_> though there is a bit more deep space travel in later books
15:52:39  <Samu_> weee. we did it
15:52:48  <Wolf01> "we"
15:53:21  <Samu_> https://imgur.com/LnLj0bj
15:53:32  <Samu_> peter1138:
15:53:40  <Samu_> it works!
15:54:26  <Samu_> i named it {COMPANY_COLOUR} // SCC_COMPANY_COLOUR
15:54:44  <Samu_> still unsure about some variables, need confirmation on this
15:54:57  <Samu_> {"COMPANY_COLOUR",    EmitSingleChar, SCC_COMPANY_COLOUR,     1, -1, C_NONE},
15:55:10  <Samu_> those numbers, dunno what they're for
15:55:36  <Samu_> strgen_tables.h
15:56:22  <Samu_> is 1, -1 fine?
15:57:19  <nielsm> the table is declared like this: static const CmdStruct _cmd_structs[]
15:57:25  <nielsm> so it's an array of CmdStruct structs
15:57:33  <nielsm> that type is defined a few lines above
15:58:02  <nielsm> which tells you what each field is
15:59:46  <Samu_> but it's still unclear what it does
16:00:44  <nielsm> "consumes" likely is how many string formatting arguments it uses up
16:01:50  <nielsm> and "default_plural_offset" probably controls which of the arguments the control code takes that controls the plurals generations
16:04:26  <nielsm> so if you want to make a control code that takes a company id as argument and selects a color based on that, it's probably correct
16:05:22  <Samu_> :)
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16:21:09  <Borg> da fuck....
16:21:20  <Borg> spam attack again? so +R was necessary? or what?
16:22:02  <Borg> anyway.. I was obeserwing city growing recently.. in I noticed that algoritm there kinda sucks..
16:22:17  <Borg> like.. replacing large office block w/ park for example..
16:22:42  <Borg> that barelly happens in real live..  ground there is way too expensive
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16:29:01  <nielsm> yes or the classic tearing down a stadium to make way for a single family house
16:29:40  <nielsm> especially bad in small towns where it can often mean your bus stop suddenly loses passenger acceptance
16:30:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the algorithm doesn't really understan house types
16:30:56  <Eddi|zuHause> +d
16:31:28  <nielsm> but it might make sense to implement something like cost of a town expansion, used to weigh different options
16:32:11  <nielsm> and maybe even include age of the building being torn down, if that's not too expensive (memory-wise)
16:32:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to make a much broader approach there
16:32:54  <nielsm> most interesting could be if some buildings get preserved forever
16:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you need a proper town planner simulation for that
16:35:11  <supermop_work_> Eddi|zuHause: could probably approximate it somehow
16:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause> which brings you deep into "but the game is not about that" territory
16:35:37  <supermop_work_> make towns subject to same removal cost penalties as players
16:35:58  <supermop_work_> so prefer to remove lesser buildings
16:36:41  <nielsm> and maybe not make construction choices that will lower the total population :)
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16:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that won't prevent stadiums being replaced by houses
16:38:42  <Eddi|zuHause> while it may prevent hotels or office buildings appearing in the center
16:41:14  <nielsm> I'd think it would be possible to make a general algorithm that prefers building a house on a new plot across the street, rather than tearing down an existing construction, while also recognizing that growth requires building taller in the center now
16:44:05  <Samu_> is this called string control code? formating control code?
16:44:15  <Samu_> {CURRENCY_SHORT}
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16:48:13  <nielsm> hmm where would I add settings controlling how the performance rating score is calculated, under Accounting would make most sense I think?
16:48:32  <nielsm> or maybe in Environment?
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16:54:42  <Samu_> patch for peter1138 https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1202645#p1202645, should i post in spraybug site?
16:55:44  <peter1138> Oh you actually print the name of the colour, haha
16:56:38  <supermop_work_> Eddi|zuHause: i think stadia should gradually move away from centers
16:56:55  <Samu_> yeah, i know it's not pretty, but at least it's something
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17:07:54  <Borg> well... there is house population counter right?
17:08:03  <Borg> for every building... aka capacity
17:08:19  <Borg> replace only buildings w/ lower capacity
17:08:31  <Borg> so.. town will slowly grow from center to outside
17:08:44  <Borg> like in real world.. where suburbans areas are filled first w/ small housing
17:08:55  <supermop_work_> borg, sometimes towns shrink, or sprawl to become less dense, which might also be desirable
17:08:57  <Borg> and center w/ skycrappers.. because land cost is biiiig
17:09:12  <Borg> how town can shrink actually?
17:09:29  <supermop_work_> in game or in real life? it can in both
17:09:30  <Borg> except of course.. due to current alrogitm being dumb.. and demolish sky crapper for statue or park
17:09:41  <Borg> no no.. I mean in game..
17:09:59  <Borg> in real life.. small towns can die off.. like mining towns
17:10:20  <supermop_work_> in game by replacement with lower buildings, and also by influence of GS
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17:10:48  <Borg> GS is different story.. lets not involve it right now
17:10:51  <supermop_work_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shrinking_cities_in_the_United_States
17:11:13  <supermop_work_> people move out of cities into suburbs, or to other regions
17:11:21  <Borg> of course..
17:11:49  <Borg> but as I said.. removing sky crapper for park looks.. kinda weird.. especialy. when there is plenty of place or bare land around
17:12:10  <supermop_work_> most planners would consider the trends of late 20th Century american urban development a mistake, but might be interesting in a game
17:12:45  <supermop_work_> well i agree that the current town grown method is too clumsy
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17:13:42  <Borg> supermop_work_: wait a min.. we are not discussing real world problems here :)
17:14:02  <Borg> I agree that current city planners sux ass... money.. nothing else matters here
17:14:15  <Borg> but we are not on #solving_world_urban_problems
17:14:16  <Borg> ;)
17:15:26  <nielsm> a town enter _should_ have parks and plazas, but those should generally be ones that have "always" been parks or plazas
17:15:28  <supermop_work_> Borg: on the contrary current city planners work hard to correct the mistakes made from 1950s-90s, and really do not make much money
17:15:55  <supermop_work_> but my arguement is a shrinkin, sprawling city would be desirable in game
17:15:58  <Borg> supermop_work_: maybe in place where u living..
17:16:48  <Borg> supermop_work_: yeah.. but how make city to actually shrink? openttd doesnt support that at all? except mistake like: we want to city to grow.. lets find a place to plant some.. oh wait.. that skyscrapper looks old.. boom.. and we have park here
17:16:50  <nielsm> when a town grows its core area and starts replacing buildings with higher density ones, it should convert a small percentage to parks/plazas, and those should have a very high "cost" to be replaced with other buildings
17:17:18  <supermop_work_> one reason public transit is so bad in the US, despite being very good from 1900-1950, are these urban changes and the ifficulty adapting -- it would be a fun challenge to try to 'beat' the historical scenario
17:17:56  <supermop_work_> Borg: i think cities might periodically remove old buildings anyway
17:18:07  <Borg> public transit is bad.. because probably its the same like here... spliting towns in areas: living, commerce, industrials.. etc
17:18:36  <supermop_work_> if you remove the center road piece,  houses will disappear slowly, and no new ones will grow
17:18:36  <Borg> supermop_work_: of course.. its ok.. to remove buildings.. and place similar in place.. a bit smaller/same/a bit larger
17:18:50  <supermop_work_> so some method must be removing those old houses
17:19:21  <Borg> but... not to plant fucking statue.. because land cost on that building is already astronomical.. noone would waste it :) close to center.. but its just my opinion
17:19:35  <Borg> supermop_work_: ahh.. didnt know that.. never was doing extensive City tests
17:20:12  <Borg> anyway.. thats all.. it was my 2 cents :) u do what u see fit..
17:20:18  <supermop_work_> borg, outside of gs city should be able to replace skyscraper with park or even nothing, just with tiny probability
17:21:07  <supermop_work_> as if town had some limited 'capital' each month based on how much it is growing
17:21:52  <Borg> I would rather replace small houses to park.. instead of sky crapper.. ;) but ok
17:21:55  <supermop_work_> so just like for player, removing an expensive building is less preffered than building on bare land
17:22:53  <supermop_work_> Here in NYC, sometimes a 10-20 floor building is replaced with a park, so that the building next door may be made taller
17:23:11  <Eddi|zuHause> in my city, which has been shrinking for decades now, lots of houses have been torn down with no replacement, and also some "skyscrapers" have been nocked down with small or no replacement
17:23:14  <Borg> taller.. so park gets less light.. and then.. dies off.. smart
17:23:14  <Borg> ;)
17:23:44  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: of course.. it HAPPENS...
17:23:51  <Borg> okey. no futher comments :)
17:24:06  <supermop_work_> Borg: the parks are there because only a certain percentage of a block can be so tall, to allow light down to street level
17:24:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you want, though. something that happens in the real world happens also in the game.
17:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> where's the problem, other than the game is really "dumb" about it?
17:24:50  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: I noticed that freshly made buildings.. bigger one.. who start accepting goods..
17:24:52  <supermop_work_> such parks are usually benches, pavements, shade tolerant plants, not soccer pitches
17:24:59  <Borg> are later on.. replaced by statue.. or park..
17:25:08  <Borg> even when u ask to build new commercial building
17:25:13  <Borg> thats not ok.. in my opinion :)
17:25:34  <Borg> but... leave it as it..
17:25:42  <Borg> anyway.. what about PAX generation? u really touching it?
17:25:56  <Borg> because I saw ppl bitching off that dense city produce way too much passengers..
17:26:02  <supermop_work_> it is dumb at the atomic level, but overall towns do trend to denser and bigger
17:26:24  <Borg> supermop_work_: yeah.. after a while they grow indeed..
17:26:29  <Borg> so. maybe not a big problem after all
17:26:40  <Borg> just observation
17:26:59  <supermop_work_> another problem is that the vanilla houses have many 'park' type buildings for the center zone 5, with a high probability
17:27:37  <supermop_work_> with some other sets like swedish houses or japanese  houses, you end up with a much higher percentage of big buildings in the center
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17:52:21  <snail_UES_> guys, question for you… anyone knows what are the labels used by Japanese tracks?
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18:02:07  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RailtypeLabels <- it lists some
18:02:14  <frosch123> no idea whether they are correct
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18:03:28  <snail_UES_> this might be outdated...
18:05:09  <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/jptracks/repository/entry/nfo/action0.pnfo <- or check that
18:15:24  <supermop_work_> hi frosch123, sorry to bug, but will nml get built with latest NRT changes?
18:15:53  <frosch123> i think there is no automatism :p someone has to do it
18:17:54  <frosch123> hmm, has been ages since i did that..
18:24:41  <frosch123> supermop_work_: i guess that will take a while
18:24:56  <frosch123> i do not have a readily available compile environment for it
18:39:44  <supermop_work_> ok
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19:22:28  <frosch123> supermop_work_: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nml-nrt-8434ab8-win32.zip
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19:38:57  <supermop_work_> ooh
19:39:06  <supermop_work_> thanks!
19:43:20  <supermop_work_> will need to make a few ore Bufo trucks
19:43:27  <supermop_work_> more
19:45:39  <frosch123> hmm, i bought the wrong kind of apple
19:51:42  <supermop_work_> granny smith instead of macbook pro?
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19:52:13  <frosch123> no, gala tenroy instead of braeburn
19:56:25  <supermop_work_> neither of those i would consider baking apples
19:56:37  <supermop_work_> what are you going to do with them
19:56:49  <frosch123> eating raw?
19:57:20  <frosch123> but gala tastes really boring
19:57:56  <supermop_work_> indeed i agree with you there
20:11:24  <Borg> uh oh.. eat them while you can.. ;)
20:12:00  <Borg> when bees will extinct.. you will dream to eat any of those ;)
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20:42:47  <Wolf01> 'night
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