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Log for #openttd on 1st March 2018:
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12:17:48  <Thedarkb> When is libicu52 getting replaced with 57?
12:19:20  <LordAro> when someone replaces it
12:19:37  <planetmaker> ^^ Feel free to make a patch for that and submit that. Would be welcome
12:19:57  <LordAro> it's a bit tricky because the layout engine got removed
12:20:32  <LordAro> frosch & i were vaguely looking at using pango
12:25:36  <planetmaker> oh
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14:50:47  <Alberth> o/
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14:54:23  <Samu> hi
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15:03:06  <supermop_work_> yo
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15:15:04  <planetmaker> \o
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16:30:17  <andythenorth> this? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8859/tanker_tanker.png
16:30:29  <andythenorth> or repeat this shape again? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8858/tanker_tanker_2.png
16:31:23  <Samu> need english expert
16:31:47  <Alberth> variation is nice, but the first ship is silly
16:32:03  <Alberth> perhaps drop the green chimney instead?
16:32:33  <Samu> STR_GOAL_REACHED        : {WHITE}{COMPANY}{BLACK} {COMPANY_NUM} was the first company to reach a company value of {GREEN}{CURRENCY_SHORT}
16:32:44  <Alberth> or no blue cabin, but the white part higher
16:32:54  <Samu> now I'm adding the days it took for that company to reach it
16:33:05  <Samu> how do I add that information in that phrase
16:33:07  <andythenorth> https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/SHIPS/British-Coastal-and-Short-Sea/BOWKER/i-CL9XS9L
16:33:45  <andythenorth> https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/SHIPS/British-Coastal-and-Short-Sea/BOWKER/i-ksQt3QB
16:33:51  <andythenorth> I think it looks odd with house in middle
16:33:59  <andythenorth> but I think the variation is worth exploring
16:34:04  <Samu> xxx was the first to reach, in yyy days, a company value of zzz?
16:34:04  <Alberth> break the cargo-hold in two then
16:34:18  <Alberth> ie make 2 smaller cargo holds
16:34:23  <andythenorth> worth trying
16:34:27  <Samu> xxx was the first to reach a company value of yyy, in zzz days?
16:34:49  <Alberth> after foo days, bla company made a million!!
16:35:45  <andythenorth> if I can get it to look right, I can use the same shape for cement/powder ship
16:35:46  <andythenorth> http://binnenvaart-fotos.nl/pages/tankers/tankers-r/rodort-9.php
16:35:57  <Samu> After xxx days, yyy was the first company to reach a value of zzz?
16:36:03  <andythenorth> but they really do look ugly with that configuration
16:37:14  <Alberth> perhaps make the blue cabin smaller in width, as you want to maximize cargo hold space
16:37:47  <Alberth> or change the colour to white too :)
16:37:57  <Alberth> but indeed, it looks weird
16:38:24  <Samu> After xxx days from inauguration, yyy was the first company to reach a (company?) value of zzz?
16:39:04  <Alberth> final picture looks like a tanker
16:39:24  <andythenorth> cement tanker
16:39:29  <Samu> __ln__: english master, plz halp
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16:41:35  <Alberth> you missed a few "companies", let me help you: after xxx days of inauguration of the company, company yyy was the first company to reach a company value of zzz
16:41:45  <Samu> heh :(
16:41:47  <Alberth> I think it needs even more companies
16:42:07  <Samu> I just noticed it's repeating
16:42:14  <Alberth> :D
16:42:37  <Alberth> "from inauguration" seems a bit superfluous too, to me
16:42:46  <Samu> of
16:42:59  <Alberth> I mean are there other relevant dates ?
16:43:44  <Samu> it stores the inauguration date of a company, then the date it reaches, and computes the days that passed
16:44:03  <Samu> it reaches goal*
16:44:25  <Alberth> and?
16:44:40  <Samu> it's just for "competition" purposes
16:45:05  <Alberth> the script is intended for a race, right?
16:45:22  <Alberth> so everybody always aims for the end from day 1
16:45:31  <Samu> yes, but not against a specific date
16:45:31  <Alberth> no need to make that explicit
16:46:14  <Samu> perhaps that could be another goal mode
16:46:21  <Samu> but not for now
16:46:35  <Alberth> so, can I win the competition, and yet start very late with my company?
16:46:44  <Samu> yes
16:47:02  <Alberth> even after a company that started earlier has reached the end goal?
16:47:31  <Samu> ah, nah, if the goal was reached before, the GS switches from goal mode to ranking mode
16:47:32  <Alberth> I could have fewer xxx days!
16:48:12  <Alberth> so "from inauguration" is a lie
16:50:56  <Samu> it's the day the company was created
16:51:30  <Alberth> yes, but it's not relevant in the result, like your message claims
16:51:53  <Samu> ah, i see what u mean
16:52:14  <Samu> well, that's how most servers that have a company value goal work atm
16:53:03  <Samu> but they use real world time, I use openttd's
16:53:11  <Alberth> that's fine, but in that case only the date of the first win is relevant
16:53:23  <Alberth> and not how long the company exists
16:54:01  <Alberth> so make your message convey that message properly
16:54:38  <Alberth> hmm, two "message" words there, first should be "text", I guess
16:55:01  <Samu> there's only one winner
16:55:21  <Alberth> there usually is, in competitions :)
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16:56:27  <Alberth> my point is that by printing the number of days it took, it looks like that is relevant for winning
16:56:46  <Alberth> as it is not, perhaps better not print that information?
16:57:18  <Alberth> or you change the script such that it becomes relevant, of course
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16:59:20  <Samu> it's merely informative, not relevant for winning, but it's nice to know this bit of information for the next time the server restart, and try to redo a better time
17:00:13  <Samu> there is no "highscore" table feature though
17:00:27  <Samu> would be interesting to have such a feature
17:01:04  <Samu> or maybe, there is, but it's xhuntershunter or whatever, and I'm not using that
17:07:59  <Samu> {COMMA} days or {NUM} days? or is there anything better for counting dates?
17:11:31  <Alberth> bla years and bla days,  is probably the only better form
17:11:47  <Alberth> 4 years and 4 days
17:11:58  <Alberth> @calc 4*365+4
17:11:58  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 1464
17:12:11  <Alberth> 1464 days  means so little :p
17:12:55  <Samu> there is no {AGE} :/
17:13:39  <Alberth> actually it's 4*356+4
17:14:22  <Alberth> there are no long periods in openttd
17:14:31  <Alberth> or at least no long periods that are reported
17:14:55  <Samu> 356?
17:15:03  <Alberth> trains have nice round model years :)
17:15:03  <Samu> 366?
17:15:58  <Alberth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year   right, 365 it is
17:16:29  <Alberth> could add a day once every 4 years, but I wouldn't bother
17:16:51  <Alberth> it makes it also simpler to compare lengths
17:18:16  <Alberth> ie decrease from 5 to 3 years, is that 2 years, or 2 years and 1 day?
17:24:11  <andythenorth> Alberth: better, dunno if it's nice though http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8860/tanker_tanker_3.png
17:24:21  <andythenorth> it's logical, but is it appealing :P
17:25:54  <Alberth> swap the big and the small cargo hold?
17:26:10  <Alberth> I'd suggest a test-drive at the forum?
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17:26:59  <Alberth> the yellow antenna and green chimney look weird, but that holds for more ships imho
17:27:12  <Alberth> paint some chimneys white as well?
17:27:43  <Alberth> and a darker teint of yellow/brown here and there?
17:27:52  <Alberth> or remove a few antennas :)
17:28:15  <andythenorth> the antennas could go
17:29:38  <Alberth> or make them black, so they don't stand out so much
17:30:13  <andythenorth> rm-ed
17:30:20  <andythenorth> they're nice if only a few ships have them
17:30:25  <andythenorth> otherwise just noise
17:30:43  <Alberth> +1
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17:33:02  <Samu> STR_GOAL_REACHED        : {BLACK}After {WHITE}{COMMA} days{BLACK} of inauguration, {WHITE}{COMPANY}{BLACK} {COMPANY_NUM} was first to reach a company value of {GREEN}{CURRENCY_SHORT}{BLACK}. {}{}Game is now paused. {}{}Press {YELLOW}Continue{BLACK} to resume game.
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17:38:06  <Alberth> o/
17:38:10  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8861/tanker_tanker_4.png
17:38:13  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8862/tanker_tanker_5.png
17:38:17  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8863/tanker_tanker_6.png
17:38:20  <andythenorth> different positions
17:38:26  <andythenorth> still not convinced
17:38:35  <andythenorth> but better than http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8859/tanker_tanker.png
17:40:41  <frosch123> hoi
17:43:50  <andythenorth> looks bad :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8864/tanker_tanker_7.png
17:43:56  <andythenorth> looks backwards
17:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen ships where the steering cabin is in the front
17:44:52  <andythenorth> black swan :)
17:44:59  <andythenorth> all swans are white, no?
17:46:12  <andythenorth> ugly version https://www.marinetraffic.com/hr/ais/details/ships/shipid:2058048/mmsi:244660395/vessel:FRISIAN%20HOPPER
17:46:27  <Alberth> 5 and 6 look best to me
17:46:40  <andythenorth> most offshore support vessels have house forward
17:46:47  <andythenorth> but now also lots of coasters
17:47:06  <andythenorth> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgp5Ie_7o8iiZFD2K4hLy9gZM-BC8l9uTp0_j-As2I9akzBcSP
17:48:20  <andythenorth> https://uglyships.wordpress.com/
17:50:29  <Alberth> I'd call them exotic :)
17:50:31  <andythenorth> Alberth: 6 is ok, but I think they're all clunky
17:51:08  <Alberth> add a black high powered swan  :p
17:52:22  <SpComb> Transport Fever is maddeningly slow, if you start in 1850 and maximize your loan, I can't seem to get profitable enough to sustain actual gameplay
17:54:48  <andythenorth> this is just better and simpler http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8865/tanker_tanker_8.png
17:55:13  <andythenorth> quite repetitive with other ships, but eh :P
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18:00:04  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: yeah, it's pretty crazy at high difficulties
18:05:18  <SpComb> hmm, can't remember if this was easy or normal
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18:10:15  <andythenorth> supermop_work_: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8860/tanker_tanker_3.png or http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8865/tanker_tanker_8.png
18:10:16  <andythenorth> ??
18:10:21  <andythenorth> there are others ;P
18:11:39  <Samu> Alberth: https://imgur.com/nitWj21
18:12:02  <Samu> good english, color choice?
18:12:08  <Samu> probably not best english
18:12:36  <Alberth> 16 days AFTER inauguration
18:13:16  <Samu> oh, i see, my poor english skillz
18:13:25  <Alberth> amount doesn't seem important, but ymmv
18:16:33  <Samu> 16 days!
18:16:38  <Samu> let me try a big number
18:18:05  <Samu> https://imgur.com/5zI2j64
18:18:09  <Samu> hmm, i see
18:18:14  <Samu> seems too random
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18:20:47  <Samu> local days_taken = GSDate.GetCurrentDate() - this.companies[c_id].inauguration_date;
18:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: also at least in train fever it got even worse after 1950, when passenger numbers break down due to emergence of cars
18:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played transport fever that far
18:27:12  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: :O
18:27:20  <SpComb> that sounds terrible :D
18:28:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and i think income also changes at 1900 and 1950
18:28:23  <SpComb> but hey, just as I complain and continue playing again today, suddenly I'm making 5m/yr income and I just paid off my loan in 1895
18:28:34  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: well, in any case, it comes with a "remove money" mod :)
18:29:17  <SpComb> I got burned so badly in the campaigns on the fickle industry chains that I started this sandbox game with just passengers, far simpler to manage
18:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> managing industry chains is tricky
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18:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> because if any part of the route breaks down, everything breaks down
18:30:03  <Wolf01> Moin
18:30:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why in my game i used ships for most industries
18:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> because you get all the connectivity with few to none of the infrastructure
18:30:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so you can cover the distance between all the industries in the chain
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18:31:23  <SpComb> yeah, that happened in pretty much every one of the campaign games that I played
18:31:48  <SpComb> had to just give up at the point where none of the trains are making any profit anymore and I max out my loan
18:32:01  <SpComb> this pax game is going much much better in comparison
18:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a quirk of the game that you can't do partial industry routes like in openttd. you have to make the route from primary to finished product
18:35:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and balance the primary outputs
18:35:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and get rid of some of the byproducts
18:36:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and now talking about it i REALLY want to play it...
18:37:14  <Alberth> o/
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18:45:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27971 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2018-03-01 19:45:36 +0100 )
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 2 changes by Absay
18:47:13  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8866/tanker_tanker_9.png
18:47:20  <andythenorth> probably worth continuing
18:47:40  <Wolf01> Yes, fine
18:52:19  <andythenorth> less bad than before
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19:20:14  <andythenorth> better with this hull? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8868/tanker_tanker_10.png
19:28:37  <Wolf01> Can't decide
19:30:27  <frosch123> i prefer 9
19:31:27  <frosch123> 9 adds more variety, 10 is very similar to the bigger ships
19:31:32  <peter1138> That zoom though
19:31:34  <andythenorth> there are others like 10
19:32:00  <peter1138> Do them all. Whatever it is.
19:33:45  <frosch123> 9 is more like a river ship, 10 is a sea ship
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19:44:18  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8869/tanker_tanker_11.png
19:44:19  <andythenorth> also
19:57:42  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm...
19:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Mar 01 20:55:27 Johannes-II smartd[1091]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], 1442 Currently unreadable (pending) sectors
19:57:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Mar 01 20:55:27 Johannes-II smartd[1091]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], 2 Offline uncorrectable sectors (changed -12)
19:59:04  <Wolf01> Time to change the HDD
20:02:23  <Rubidium> rather too late to change the HDD
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20:13:11  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: rip
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20:20:31  <andythenorth> hmm
20:20:38  <andythenorth> 11 is a better sprite, but boring
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20:25:18  <Eddi|zuHause> all good things come in 12
20:28:51  <andythenorth> I am waiting for 29
20:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> so i bought that HDD in sept. 2010
20:30:45  <Wolf01> Mine are from 2007, but don't tell them
20:31:09  <frosch123> hdd used to have negative reliability decay
20:34:29  <Eddi|zuHause> meaning the older they get the more reliable they become?
20:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think much of that is selection bias :p
20:35:13  <supermop_work_> andythenorth: i like the split holds for little tanker
20:35:25  <andythenorth> I think I use that for gen 1
20:35:37  <andythenorth> I am only drawing gen 2 ships currently, but with a steam funnel
20:35:41  <andythenorth> I think that is nice gen 1
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21:41:59  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:17:57  <SpComb> ok, so double-track tunnel entrances are broken
22:22:05  <Eddi|zuHause> tunnels always were a bit weird
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22:47:13  <Samu> english master, halp!
22:47:16  <Samu> - In the rare case where more than one company reach the target value at   the same time, the most valuable of them, or the newest, in case of a   tie, is victorious.
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22:47:21  <Samu> is this good english?
22:48:24  <Samu> need to insert "at the time of checking" somewhere
22:48:54  <Supercheese> "In the unlikely event that multiple companies reach the target value simultaneously, then the most valuable wins. If their values are identical, then the newest wins."
22:49:01  <Supercheese> but that's just my take on it
22:49:21  <Samu> looks better
22:49:25  <Supercheese> instead of "most valuable" perhaps even "one with the highest value"
22:49:25  <Samu> thx
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22:56:11  <Samu> this is part of a changelog
22:56:31  <Samu> the old behaviour was... bad
22:57:10  <Samu> it would re-write multiple times while iterating over the winners, the last one iterated would be the winner
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22:58:24  <Samu> since it is iterating the rankings, it would be the lowest valued winner, :(
22:58:46  <Samu> and i have no idea what it does in case of a tie
22:58:52  <Samu> lel
23:00:31  <Samu> ah, the oldest company, it seems, would be winner
23:00:43  <Samu> ok, thx
23:07:56  <Samu> last english question
23:07:59  <Samu> Company Value GS is a Game Script that uses the goal list to rank companies by their current company value. It can also be used to challenge companies to be the first to reach a user defined company value target as a goal as fast as they can.
23:08:03  <Samu> good enough?
23:08:20  <Samu> maybe a colon ther
23:08:48  <Samu> Company Value GS is a Game Script that uses the goal list to rank companies by their current company value. It can also be used to challenge companies to be the first to reach a user defined company value target as a goal, as fast as they can.
23:09:55  <Samu> "as fast as they can" or "in the minimum amount of time possible" or maybe something else you suggest?~
23:11:44  <Samu> not only be the first, but also do it as fast as they can
23:11:51  <Samu> hmm, :(
23:13:53  <Samu> "Company Value GS is a Game Script that uses the goal list to rank companies by their current company value. It can also be used to challenge companies not only to be the first to reach a user defined company value target as a goal, but also as fast as they can."
23:14:05  <Samu> English Master!
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23:22:58  <Samu> well? :(
23:24:30  <Samu> but also to do it as fast as they can.
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23:29:26  <Samu> https://bananas.openttd.org/en/notAvailableYet
23:29:30  <Samu> uploaded~
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