Log for #openttd on 3rd March 2018:
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00:10:13  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:37:55  <SpComb> I really like the mechanic with explicit track speed limits, it makes you rebuild all your tracks later on in the game as trains get faster
00:38:47  <SpComb> spent at least an hour making sure all my pax tracks are at least 120km/h
00:42:12  <SpComb> the same junction was already there in ~1920 but with far tighter curves, and without the tunnel in the hills on the other side
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01:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah...
01:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause> however, i have a track section it won't let me electrify
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02:01:29  <norenarick_> hi
02:01:35  <norenarick_> are there people in here?
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08:25:28  <andythenorth> o/
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08:40:08  <andythenorth>
08:40:20  <andythenorth> the small one is size of OpenTTD ships :P
08:40:38  <andythenorth> 96px in – direction
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09:38:31  <SpComb> how long is a game of openttd ffom 1920 to ~2020 in real wallclock time?
09:43:02  <SpComb> 22.5h?
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09:56:46  <Rubidium> that's roughly the ballpark figure
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10:24:15  <Wolf01> Moin
10:28:59  <Wolf01> Even today I'll play tomorrow... 5 hours to update a game
10:29:14  <Wolf01> (5 hours estimated, which are like 8
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10:59:41  <andythenorth> o/
10:59:50  <andythenorth> so
11:00:51  <andythenorth> can I mercurial with multiple remotes?
11:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so, 7m below surface doesn't suffice for building a tunnel under a city
11:02:37  <Wolf01> Clearly not
11:03:14  <Wolf01> andythenorth, I think yes, but I found the remote stuff wobbly
11:03:31  <Wolf01> At least in my case I had problems updating the remotes
11:05:07  <andythenorth> in svn times, remotes were terrible
11:05:11  <andythenorth> but in git they seem to just work
11:06:45  <andythenorth> my use case
11:07:00  <andythenorth> there's some things that are common to all my vehicle grfs
11:07:01  <andythenorth>
11:07:54  <andythenorth> for a while, copy-paste was fine
11:08:05  <andythenorth> DRY doesn't apply when you only have 2 cases
11:08:23  <andythenorth> but I have 3, and that triggers DRY in my opinion :P
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11:14:46  <andythenorth> I could just have a dedicated repo for common stuff, and a shell script that copies the files :P
11:14:50  <andythenorth> but it's a bit fragile
11:15:36  <andythenorth> and it lacks the changesets
11:15:42  <andythenorth> I assume hg remotes would solve that
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11:23:30  <andythenorth> can't find any good docs on how to hg remote
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11:24:31  <Samu> hi
11:24:42  <frosch123> just "hg pull <other remote url>"
11:26:44  <frosch123> i am not sure whether it record new urls in .hgrc automatically
11:26:56  <frosch123> but you can definitely add them manually
11:26:59  <frosch123> see "hg help urls"
11:27:35  <andythenorth> "abort: repository is unrelated"
11:27:49  <andythenorth> I tried to pull Road Hog in Unsinkable Sam
11:27:54  <frosch123> "-f"
11:28:44  <andythenorth> nice
11:31:28  <andythenorth> ok that gets me multiple heads
11:31:33  <andythenorth> then presumably I would just merge
11:31:40  <frosch123> anyway, you probably want to start with a fresh repo for the shared parts
11:31:43  <andythenorth> yes
11:31:50  <frosch123> otherwise yuo will end up with the full history of both in both repos
11:31:58  <andythenorth> yes, I didn't do that merge :)
11:32:30  <andythenorth> I'll create something like andythenorth-common repo
11:32:40  <andythenorth> and then I can learn about triangular dependency problems
11:36:25  <andythenorth> If I do this now, then later I will have to move all repos to git at same time
11:36:31  <andythenorth> not optimum :P
11:37:08  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, so this "subway" is probably totally useless
11:39:27  <Wolf01> CS?
11:47:30  <andythenorth> what shall I call a common repo? :P
11:51:09  <andythenorth> 'later' :P
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13:17:44  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: I figured out the tunnels/bridges now
13:19:30  <Eddi|zuHause> your passenger station might benefit from the second road connection on the other side?
13:19:56  <Eddi|zuHause> also, the problem is not placing tunnels or bridges, but placing tunnels or bridges in tight space restrictions :p
13:21:02  <SpComb> I think that couts as tight
13:21:15  <Eddi|zuHause> not as tight as i want :p
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13:37:20  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, people start to use my "subway", but it's not nearly profitable
13:37:42  <andythenorth>  let's see if I can make a repo on devzone
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13:39:52  <supermop> yo
13:41:24  <andythenorth> lo supermop
13:42:46  <andythenorth> ha the repository magically got created
13:43:06  <andythenorth>
13:43:21  <andythenorth> "After you clicked 'create project', a mercurial repository will be created automatically and added to the project. This is done by a script which checks for new projects without a repository every seven minutes and adds a new, empty repo to both DevZone's redmine as well as rhodecode installs (technical details in admin guide)."
13:43:32  <andythenorth> ^ leaving that here for next time I search #openttd logs :P
13:46:49  <supermop> should i creat a new project?
13:49:12  <andythenorth> urgh
13:49:31  <andythenorth> how on earth does .hgignore work with remote repos?
13:49:50  <andythenorth> :(
13:49:55  <andythenorth> this doesn't seem viable
13:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have a personal .hgignore
13:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> wherever your global hgconfig is
13:52:15  <andythenorth> also I'm going to license.txt and readme.txt polution
13:52:21  <andythenorth> going to get *
13:52:39  <andythenorth> anything in the remote repo is going to be brought into the downstream project
13:52:43  <andythenorth> this is a very bad idea
13:54:46  <andythenorth> maybe I should publish it as a library instead :(
13:56:31  <andythenorth> TMWFTLB
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14:23:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so, can i terraform new waterways?
14:23:45  <Eddi|zuHause> need a dock near my cargo station
14:25:16  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, nope, riverbank cannot be modified
14:26:31  <andythenorth> flat docks :P
14:30:12  <V453000> Why is openttd on windows store for 2 euros? O_O
14:31:31  <Wolf01> V453000:
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14:33:17  <V453000> Shouldn't we like, do something  about it?
14:34:55  <Wolf01> The "demo" is the game, it states you pay only if you want to donate to the one who published it on the store
14:36:27  <V453000> ah I see
14:36:35  <V453000> that's still fucking disgusting
14:36:40  <Wolf01> Yes
14:37:01  <V453000> how is it legally?
14:37:09  <Wolf01> Dunno
14:37:24  <andythenorth> grey area
14:37:29  <V453000> mhm
14:37:36  <V453000> hate
14:37:40  <Wolf01> But to do it in the proper way he should have to modify the OTTD code and put a donation link somewhere, then make the game free on the store
14:38:06  <Wolf01> And at this point we could just publish the official OTTD on the store
14:38:26  <Wolf01> The developer license cost is ridiculous
14:38:44  <V453000> developer license?
14:39:03  <V453000> is there like an entry fee to the store or?
14:39:14  <Wolf01> Yes, to publish in the store you need a developer license, 19€ or so, lifetime
14:39:31  <andythenorth> such boats
14:39:45  <Wolf01> Maybe is it possible to obtain a free developer license for OS projects
14:42:00  <V453000> oh that's not so bad
14:47:24  <andythenorth> V453000: is After Effects still Best Software Ever?
14:47:29  <andythenorth> I haven't used it for > 10 years
14:48:02  <V453000> uhhhhh
14:48:09  <V453000> depends how you look at it
14:48:46  <V453000> as an FX artist, it's really nice if you want a layer system, but some people prefer a node system
14:49:03  <V453000> for me working with layers as a timeline is just so much clearer whenever time is important (always in FX)
14:49:21  <V453000> as an image postprocessing tool it's still very good, but many of the underlying issues come up
14:49:59  <V453000> it eats gigant amounts of RAM in any uses, but for example when you overflow some amount of stuff in the javascript expressions, it just fails to update
14:50:37  <V453000> you can re-render the whole queue but you have to keep the same folder destination, otherwise it doesn't remember the path so you would have to set it up all again
14:50:47  <V453000> I didn't try to script things in it but I guess it would be helpful
14:51:25  <V453000> in the last few weeks I've been trying to replace with Blender's compositor nodes but it's just not an option to do that. Blender gets incredibly slow and just generating the nodes is pure hell
14:54:21  <andythenorth> I am thinking about making some animations
14:54:28  <andythenorth> and Flash is dead, and nothing seems to have replaced it
14:54:37  <andythenorth> so vector animation is kind of...over :(
14:54:56  <V453000> Flash is still the best program there I'm afraid
14:55:06  <V453000> I'd suggest just using Blender
14:55:18  <andythenorth> I just need 2D motion graphics
14:55:19  <V453000> Blender is surprisingly incredibly amazing for 2D animations
14:55:23  <andythenorth> is it? :o
14:55:27  <V453000> yes
14:55:37  <andythenorth> oh seems that Flash is split now
14:55:41  <andythenorth> in crazy Adobe land
14:55:42  <V453000> you just put an orthographic camera to the side and you're done
14:55:44  <andythenorth>
14:56:05  <V453000> but since you have all the bone structures, parenting etc tools in Blender, it's great
14:56:20  <V453000> oh yeah or that
14:56:28  <V453000> I haven't used it but I guess it would work well
14:56:30  <andythenorth> Blender is interesting left-field suggestion
14:57:01  <andythenorth> I used to really like Flash, it was completely intuitive to animate with
14:57:01  <V453000> and you only pay with your time and soul for it
14:57:20  <V453000> yeah learning blender isn't the most intuitive road I'm afraid
14:57:22  <andythenorth> my kids want to learn to animate, and we haven't found anything on ipad to do it
14:57:26  <V453000> It's fine for me now, but ...
14:57:30  <andythenorth> like, everything is just crap on ipad
14:57:36  <V453000> ah yeah ipad things
14:57:43  <V453000> I bought one for myself on christmas
14:57:44  <andythenorth> we got the pencil thing
14:57:52  <V453000> I only take notes and play games on it
14:58:06  <V453000> I did buy procreate which is a nice program but in compare to full photoshop it's just a toy
14:58:13  <V453000> yeah I also got the pencil thing
15:00:30  <andythenorth> seems I can use the ipad like a big wacom
15:00:36  <andythenorth> haven't tried that yet
15:00:58  <V453000> you got the larger one? I got the ipad pro 10,5 inches
15:01:26  <andythenorth> nah small one
15:01:28  <V453000> yeah I think you can connect it to a mac(book) rather easily from what I read
15:01:39  <andythenorth>
15:02:05  <V453000> yeah I think I saw this
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15:58:55  <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> how is it legally? <-- you could probably get him on a GPL violation, if you want to pay a lawyer
15:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause> (note that charging money is not a GPL violation)
16:05:15  * andythenorth implements more BAD IDEAS
16:12:51  <Samu> time to give up my multi-threading AIs, i really have no idea what im doing
16:13:03  <Samu> can't sync
16:13:12  <Samu> or lock
16:14:18  <Samu> code is gone
16:29:32  <andythenorth> Wolf01: this, in Lego? o_O
16:29:56  <Wolf01> Looks more like spintires
16:30:38  <Wolf01> I wouldn't put lego in the mud
16:30:50  <andythenorth> fair
16:33:01  <V453000> I honestly wouldn't mind paying a lawyer Eddi, if chances are good to succeed
16:33:58  <Wolf01> But for what? Just put it out of business with an official version
16:34:39  <V453000> yeah that's the other side :P
16:34:52  <Borg> such parasites should be eliminated.. hard way
16:34:59  <Borg> but you guys are too pacifistic..
16:36:42  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are open source foundations that will happily go after gpl violations, if you sign over all rights to them
16:37:00  <Eddi|zuHause> but does anybody here have the legal authority to do that?
16:37:36  <Wolf01> I doubt we even have the authority to do OTTD
16:38:26  <V453000> ^
16:41:20  <Wolf01> Ok, enough astroneer for today: expanded the outpost on the exotic planet, made a 3 cars rover train, got killed at 10km from base, made a little rover to be able to recover the rover train
16:41:55  <V453000> I've been ill at home for the last 3 days
16:42:02  <V453000> I have like 30 hours of factorio for the last 3 days
16:42:11  <andythenorth> such ill
16:42:13  <V453000> not sure if not mentally ill
16:42:29  <frosch123> i just finished the f dev gif thread
16:42:37  <frosch123> maybe now i am mentally ill
16:42:38  <andythenorth> V453000: I had a 2 day illlness a few weeks ago, like a fever
16:42:45  <andythenorth> I played 20 hours of tanks
16:42:49  <V453000> :D
16:42:53  <andythenorth> I got some ridiculous winning streak
16:42:58  <V453000> frosch: :D
16:42:59  <andythenorth> like 30 games no losses in a row
16:43:05  <andythenorth> due to hallucinating
16:43:08  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Everybody who contributed to OTTD has (under the assumption that OTTD itself is legal). After all, nothing in the GPL negates the individual copyright.
16:43:28  <V453000> well at least I don't have fever :P just some sneeze stuck in head, doesn't want to come out (much)
16:43:47  <Wolf01> Had a 8 day illness a week ago, played like 8 hours the entire week :(
16:44:20  <frosch123> 8 days of illness within a week sounds pretty bad :p
16:45:23  <frosch123> V453000: do you want to deal with info@ottd mails?
16:45:38  <V453000> info@ottd?
16:45:38  <Wolf01> The last day, monday, I was in pretty good health :P
16:45:57  <frosch123> currently there is some likely in fact mentally ill for real person copyright claiming random ottd lets plays on yt
16:46:26  <frosch123> and then yt always asks back whether the claim is legit
16:46:37  <V453000> wtf
16:46:51  <frosch123> just give pm a hug when you see him :)
16:48:00  <V453000> how is that related? :D
16:48:17  <frosch123> because pm deals with the mails
16:48:24  <V453000> ah obviously
16:48:25  <V453000> :)
16:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a horrible job
16:49:13  <andythenorth> I have a rule for mail
16:49:19  <andythenorth> 'select all -> mark read'
16:49:21  <andythenorth> job done
16:49:27  <andythenorth> people phone if it's really serious
16:49:31  <andythenorth> Wolf01: so is enough health for NRT? o_O
16:49:35  <andythenorth> caching crap
16:49:50  <V453000> andythenorth: :D
16:49:53  <Wolf01> I don't even know where to start with that
16:50:04  <Wolf01> Grf code is almost obscure
16:52:07  <Wolf01> Those kinds of callbacks should be executed at request and not only when the grf is loaded
16:52:33  <Wolf01> This mean we should also have 2 kinds of callbacks, load time ones and continuous ones
16:53:08  <andythenorth> presumably it's solved for railtypes though?
16:53:10  <andythenorth> o_O
16:53:12  <andythenorth> or it's a bug in both
16:53:42  <Wolf01> Do railtypes actually work like you want for NRT?
16:53:56  <andythenorth> I have never found they don't :P
16:54:00  <andythenorth> I don't use them much
16:54:10  <Wolf01> I mean, do you have double powered engines?
16:54:20  <andythenorth> yes
16:54:22  <andythenorth> they seem to work
16:54:24  <andythenorth> I'll test
16:56:27  <andythenorth> visual effect is hard to judge
16:56:29  <andythenorth> but seems to work
16:56:34  <andythenorth> it's intermittent for trains
16:56:38  <andythenorth> by design
16:57:28  <andythenorth> power changes immediately on change of railtype
16:57:36  <andythenorth> I haven't got any that change speed
17:08:20  <V453000> ok what in the shit
17:08:22  <V453000> frosch123: :D
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17:10:51  <andythenorth> so how to transport the trucks from here?
17:10:57  <andythenorth> like so.
17:11:00  <andythenorth> o_O
17:11:26  <V453000> what do you mean how? trainz! :D
17:12:37  <andythenorth> ^^ iz train no?
17:13:44  <V453000> smells of fish
17:16:41  <Wolf01> andythenorth: maybe some work on roadveh_cmd.cpp:L216?
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17:18:02  <andythenorth> how does train_cmd compare?
17:21:05  <andythenorth> I'm wondering if ConsistChanged is called when the railtype changes
17:21:19  <andythenorth> TrainController is quite complex :)
17:21:31  <Wolf01> Yes
17:21:37  <andythenorth> yeah L3305?
17:23:43  <Wolf01> ConsistChanged seem to do almost the same of RoadVehUpdateCache
17:23:57  <Wolf01> I bet we missed to call RoadVehUpdateCache somewhere
17:24:07  <Wolf01> Like when the roadtype changes
17:25:01  <andythenorth> plausible :)
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17:26:37  <andythenorth> in IndividualRoadVehicleController?
17:27:21  <andythenorth> is it L1311?
17:27:24  <andythenorth> not sure now
17:34:51  <Wolf01> After L1403, there you have the new vehicle position
17:36:46  <Wolf01> Or even the line pointed by you, try to put a call to RoadVehUpdateCache inside the 1311 if
17:37:14  <andythenorth> I wonder if we have a test grf
17:37:26  <Wolf01> supermop's ones
17:37:44  <andythenorth> ok
17:37:57  <andythenorth> I am afk for ~2 hours soon, but I can try later
17:38:15  <Wolf01> I'll be afk until tomorrow in 1 hour :P
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17:43:15  <andythenorth> :P
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17:53:23  <andythenorth> bbl
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18:00:59  <Wolf01> o/
18:01:24  <Wolf01> Turns out I have Internet Explorer's reflexes
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18:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i have some vague memories of using internet explorer 3
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18:16:47  <Wolf01> I don't think the local authority will be so happy about those scars on the asphalt
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18:19:53  <Wolf01> Bye
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19:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember days when the local russian army went out of their garrison with hundreds of these in a convoy
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19:41:46  <V453000> local russian army sounds pretty disturbing
19:43:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there was a saying: "we call the russians our brothers, not our friends, because friends you can choose"
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19:45:32  <Eddi|zuHause> however, they left in 1994-ish
19:50:59  <V453000> :D
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20:44:33  <andythenorth> o/
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21:31:01  <Borg> oh Eddi|zuHause .. u must be ex DDR citizen :)
21:31:53  <Borg> I remember them too :)
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22:32:02  <Integer> Hello, I've some forum posts and wiki, but still I'm not sure. As 32bpp graphics has been moved to NewGRFs is there any "official" base graphics conversion project or independent mods only?
22:33:17  <Samu> i just tried to create a shortcut to recycle bin, inside the recycle bin... but windows isn't that stupid :(
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22:50:34  <NGC3982> so, i played astroneer
22:50:42  <NGC3982> really cool graphics, really cool concept
22:50:52  <NGC3982> unfortunately, it was also a no mans sky thing.
22:53:08  <Eddi|zuHause> how no mans sky was it?
22:54:10  <NGC3982> it's 20/80 do stuff/look at things
22:54:11  <Eddi|zuHause> keep in mind that the main No Mans Sky criticism was that things were promised that were not delivered in the final release. where astroneer doesn't have a release, it is clearly marked as "early access"
22:54:48  <NGC3982> that's not what i had in mind when comparing the two
22:55:52  <NGC3982> and yes, it is still true that i cannot judge a game which is not completed. also, they have done a good job reminding me of that when i play. that's cool and all.
22:56:08  <NGC3982> still, it feels like the end product will be something cool to look at, and not so much to do
22:56:15  <NGC3982> but of course, i dont know that.
22:56:21  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: also keep in mind that before the last basebuilding and research updates, there was even less things to do
22:56:48  <NGC3982> yes.
22:57:28  <Eddi|zuHause> also, why doesn't this game let me build a crossing in a tunnel...
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