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Log for #openttd on 4th March 2018:
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03:21:10  <Mazur> ``1``It's a pity there's no setting for raw industry construction in a chosen place like the processign plants, for solo play, when an industry has disappeared but you want it back.
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03:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause>  i'm pretty sure that exists
03:53:37  <Mazur> It used to, but now it's [None], [Secondary only], or [Secondary funding + Primary prospecting].
03:54:01  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it was moved to cheats?
03:56:06  <Mazur> It's a setting,
03:56:24  <Mazur> raw_industry_construction
03:56:32  <Mazur> Value: 0, 1, 2.
03:57:20  <ST2> and that means: 0 = none, 1 = as other industries, 2 = prospecting
03:57:36  <Mazur> Oops.
03:57:50  <Mazur> Didn;t think I saw primaries, must have looked wrong.
04:00:59  <Mazur> Ah, 0 is Secondary only, 1 is what I wnat.
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06:46:05  <Alberth> hi hi
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07:27:43  <peter1138> Hmm, so VS 2017 working...
07:28:04  <Alberth> that's a good thing, isn't it? :)
07:28:19  <Alberth> o/ andy
07:28:32  <andythenorth> moin
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07:32:14  <peter1138> Hmm, "No available language packs"... what was the fix? :S
07:34:51  <peter1138> Clean and rebuild seemed to do it.
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08:09:22  <peter1138> Hmm, we still can't commit with git can we? :S
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08:30:30  <andythenorth> I can't commit with any of them :)
08:30:33  <andythenorth> probably for the best
08:32:19  <andythenorth> chibi: not just a Japanese thing http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2784430
08:32:22  <andythenorth> also in Norway
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08:40:54  <peter1138> "Database Error : Too many connections"
08:40:57  <peter1138> Nice site...
08:41:02  <andythenorth> yeah, I crashed it
08:41:12  <andythenorth> too much traffic from #openttd
08:53:06  <andythenorth> I don't understand the issue https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6680
09:03:25  <andythenorth> this one looks good https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6664
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09:12:24  <Alberth> 6680 looks to me like he wants to push more goods into the next factory than openttd can handle
09:13:46  <Alberth> 6664 I have no clue what it says
09:15:03  <andythenorth> Paul has fixed some sprites
09:15:05  <andythenorth> it's probably fine
09:15:21  <andythenorth> 6680 is invalid
09:15:32  <Eddi|zuHause> 6680 is a known limitation of the game
09:16:02  <Eddi|zuHause> industry can only produce 255 units per production callback
09:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, per "move to station" call
09:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> which is run on the tileloop, so once every 256 for every tile
09:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause> +ticks
09:16:57  <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=48156
09:17:07  <andythenorth> as you said in 2010 Eddi|zuHause
09:17:14  <andythenorth> invalid bug
09:18:11  <andythenorth> closed
09:18:22  <andythenorth> I started looking into https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6659
09:18:42  <andythenorth> but eh, it's not as simple as I hoped :P
09:18:54  <andythenorth> I thought maybe it just had a flag not being cleared
09:19:08  <andythenorth> station_cmd.cpp is a complicated place
09:24:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, the ticket in itself is valid as there is no indication that there even is such a limit on production. also, i have no clue how arbitrary the limit of 255 units of cargo is
09:27:32  <andythenorth> I fixed this https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6669
09:29:11  <Alberth> 255 is max value of a byte, which looks totally reasonable as max in TTD to me
09:31:25  <andythenorth> closed a few more
09:31:34  <Alberth> I don't really see why it needs to be higher, you can easily add more factories and distribute the cargo. Game-play wise, that's probably also more fun, as it needs consideration how to do that, and it needs more tiles
09:31:36  <andythenorth> this is never getting solved eh? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6658
09:31:51  <andythenorth> it can be higher in newgrf, I'm ~certain
09:31:59  <andythenorth> I think the limit is 65k or so with production cb
09:32:13  <andythenorth> but I'm not interested in confirming that :P
09:33:44  <Alberth> 6658 is a known bug in the readme, afaik
09:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is production once per industry tick, not per industrytile, i think
09:34:33  <Alberth> not sure what you're saying about 65k
09:34:46  <Alberth> oh, not about 6658 :)
09:35:30  <andythenorth> yeah sorry
09:36:20  <Alberth> np
09:36:58  <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/119
09:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: 6658 cannot be solved without switching to proper 3D models
09:37:08  <andythenorth> ok it's known I close
09:37:38  <Eddi|zuHause> ... at which point you're better off starting from scratch
09:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause> sprite sorting by bounding boxes gets to a limit when the bounding boxes get too big
09:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> you could go the CETS way and cut up ships into smaller sprites with smaller bounding boxes
09:41:35  <andythenorth> ships aren't articulated?
09:41:51  <andythenorth> I am trying to fix https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6648
09:41:56  <andythenorth> but eh, cdist and conditional orders
09:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause> is it really conditional, and not just implicit?
09:43:06  <andythenorth> the train isn't going to C so of course the passengers unload no?
09:43:13  <andythenorth> check the orders in the screenshot Eddi|zuHause :)
09:43:48  <andythenorth> hmm my diagnosis is wrong though
09:44:33  <andythenorth> no I'm right
09:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause> how does it ever reach order 2?
09:45:41  <andythenorth> it doesn't
09:46:11  <andythenorth> also can cargodist evaluate through jumps?
09:46:54  <andythenorth> closed
09:48:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it can, but it will assumes either the jump will always be skipped or always be taken, it cannot really do a prediction based on history
09:48:38  <andythenorth> how's he getting snowline 0 or 1? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6638
09:48:39  <andythenorth> invalid
09:49:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i think here it always assumes the jump is taken, so effectively the train will only ever go to 3
09:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> the rest of the order list is ignored by cargodist
09:50:12  <andythenorth> I loaded the save, the behaviour suggests that cargodist is assuming the train won't go to 3
09:50:28  <andythenorth> it creates and destroys the link, I can see it appearing and disappearing
09:50:37  <andythenorth> so it finds the link and loads at C
09:51:00  <andythenorth> but the link is then destroyed (for whatever reason), so it unloads at B
09:51:30  <andythenorth> oh if it's symmetric, there's no backlink
09:51:33  <andythenorth> due to the conditional order
09:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause> without testing, i would assume it creates the link because a train actually went there, but then destroys it again because it doesn't find an orderlist supporting that link
09:53:03  <andythenorth> I concur
09:53:25  <andythenorth> on the return trip, the trains from B to C reload the passengers that want to go to A
09:53:39  <andythenorth> because at that point there's a C-A link
09:53:48  <andythenorth> conditional orders always were a bad idea
09:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i think some of the cases can be solved if the game remembered whether the jump was taken last time
09:56:52  <Eddi|zuHause> also, this specific case of "jump back to where you just came from" order might deserve a special treatment in cargodist
09:58:54  <andythenorth> ok I've played enough FS today :P
09:59:03  <andythenorth> closed 5
09:59:12  <andythenorth> there aren't many 'level up' rewards
09:59:15  <andythenorth> and not enough XP
09:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you can advance by ingame purchases?
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10:30:23  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: the small map with seven towns and two of each industry is starting to feel a bit cramped for space now, trying to get all of the industry chains going certainly takes a looong time
10:33:30  <SpComb> although I made the mistake of leaving the game in fastforward mode for the best part of 1940-1995 or so, when all of the best trains are out
10:33:42  <SpComb> now it's just europaloks for everything
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12:11:38  <andythenorth> quak
12:13:24  <frosch123> moo
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12:17:47  <Wolf01> o/
12:18:51  * LordAro playing with clang-format again
12:26:36  * andythenorth wondering why ships cache non-CC sprites
12:27:08  <andythenorth> given extensive use of reload_newgrfs, it's probably an invalid issue :P
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13:12:59  <LordAro> https://gist.github.com/LordAro/2ba97e450f04875f49f4186625df254b
13:13:08  <LordAro> some formatty goodness
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13:51:21  <Samu> hi
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13:51:31  <Samu> Wolf01: i just had an idea for your roads
13:52:05  <Samu> variable max speed, depending on "weather"
13:52:13  <Samu> snow
13:52:24  <Samu> tropical, sand
13:52:39  <Wolf01> We don't really have weather
13:52:40  <Samu> proximity to local authority
13:53:02  <Samu> rainforest,
13:53:03  <andythenorth> time for a game https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1203469#p1203469
13:55:31  <Samu> so, is it a good idea?
13:57:24  <Alberth> shippy game thus :)
13:58:15  <Alberth> Samu: just set the speed limit yourself, as it's constant anyway
13:58:45  <andythenorth> shippy game
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14:03:37  <Borg> ahahahha ;D
14:03:44  <Borg> recession now have extra depth...
14:04:02  <Borg> power plants get less coal.. less electricity production..
14:04:32  <andythenorth> more recession :P
14:04:42  <andythenorth> so what does the grf do then Borg? o_O
14:05:05  <Borg> what do you mean?
14:05:29  <Borg> uff.. recesion over.. :)
14:05:37  <Borg> Net power: <60%
14:05:46  <Borg> but its building up now..
14:06:34  <Borg> or not.. ! :)
14:06:35  <Borg> lag..
14:06:52  <Borg> between coal producution up -> transport -> power plant output adjust
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14:07:11  <Borg> 40%
14:07:16  <Borg> lol.. but should not drop to 0..
14:07:19  <Borg> coal is coming
14:07:49  <andythenorth> what does the electricity do?
14:08:01  <andythenorth> is it a transportable cargo?
14:08:40  <supermop> ugh need to enumerate so many cargoes to disallow
14:08:54  <Borg> andythenorth: of course its not transportable
14:09:01  <Borg> it goes over wires..
14:09:18  <Borg> electricity is needed for secondary industries.. for production..
14:09:22  <andythenorth> supermop: o_O
14:09:22  <Borg> no electricity.. no production at all
14:09:30  <supermop> like.. does paper go in box vans?
14:09:45  <supermop> it goes in big rolls on flatbeds,
14:09:50  <Alberth> make an "allow" list and disallow everything else
14:09:52  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/polar-fox/repository/entry/src/polar_fox.py#L102
14:10:04  <supermop> but what about 10 ream boxes of printer paper
14:10:13  <Borg> fuck.. catastrofen.. <30%
14:10:23  <andythenorth> paper goes in box vans
14:10:27  <andythenorth> don't overthink it
14:10:39  <andythenorth> mostly you want 2 or 3 vehicle options per cargo
14:10:50  <supermop> Alberth: i think box trucks should be ready to transport as yet unmade cargos
14:10:50  <andythenorth> only restrict labels that would be stupid
14:11:41  <Alberth> just do containers for everything :p
14:11:43  <supermop> currently restrict classes passengers, bulk, oversized, liquid, armoured, and livestock explicitly
14:11:49  <Alberth> not so eye-cnady-ish though :(
14:12:00  <supermop> also i explicitly allow beer and fruit
14:12:04  <andythenorth> so I should name the ships in Sam, right?
14:12:15  <Alberth> yes
14:12:25  <supermop> name them all sam
14:12:29  <Alberth> famous cats would do
14:12:31  <andythenorth> 'Tanker (Small)' and 'Tanker (Large)' are not very engaging :P
14:12:38  <andythenorth> I'll do cat breeds
14:12:48  <andythenorth> and fall back to rivers and glaciers as usual
14:12:55  <supermop> how about Tanker (Samuel) and Tanker (Samantha)
14:12:59  <andythenorth> lol
14:13:04  <andythenorth> yes for April 1 dates only
14:13:22  <supermop> i thought about special liveries on certain days
14:13:37  <andythenorth> christmas theme
14:13:40  <andythenorth> give them santa hats
14:13:46  <supermop> i think one tram might have a livery only available if you build it on my birthday
14:14:03  <supermop> can recall if left that in
14:14:13  <supermop> tram switches are like 10k lines
14:14:17  <andythenorth> so are we fixing NRT?
14:14:24  <andythenorth> or am I wasting the afternoon making up ship names?
14:14:47  <Alberth> wasting? it's important work!  :)
14:14:49  <supermop> name types of roads after famous cats
14:15:07  <supermop> what 'bugs' are left?
14:15:29  <andythenorth> the caching that doesn't update
14:15:35  <supermop> supplies go in box vans?
14:15:35  <andythenorth> which we don't have a repro savegame for :P
14:16:11  <supermop> beans seem like they should too
14:18:13  <andythenorth> yes
14:18:33  <supermop> bdmt?
14:19:21  <andythenorth> yes
14:19:46  <andythenorth> I should write some html thing
14:19:59  <andythenorth> that matches up FIRS cargos and classes, and what they go in
14:19:59  <supermop> what about transformers?
14:20:05  <andythenorth> robots in disguise
14:20:11  <andythenorth> they go in box vans
14:20:12  <andythenorth> hiding
14:20:26  <supermop> small motors and generators could go i imagine
14:20:39  <andythenorth> electrical machines are your choice
14:20:53  <supermop> fine chemicals?
14:21:24  <andythenorth> I would
14:21:40  <andythenorth> are you enabling refit by label?
14:21:45  <andythenorth> or disallowing?
14:21:47  <andythenorth> or both?
14:22:00  <supermop> box vans disallowing
14:22:10  <supermop> so new unknown cargos go in box vans
14:22:43  <andythenorth> if you sort this by cargo classes: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html#cargos
14:23:04  <andythenorth> and then just knock out any which are both Piece and SomethingElse where SomethingElse would look silly
14:24:44  <andythenorth> I allow all Piece, Express, Armoured and Liquid in box vans
14:25:01  <andythenorth> with a special case to knock out Tourists, which are express Because Reasons
14:28:31  <andythenorth> so how do I repro the NRT bug?
14:28:33  <andythenorth> supermop: ^
14:32:06  <andythenorth> I have TrollyBi 0.1.2
14:32:38  <andythenorth> TrolleyBi *
14:33:05  <supermop> you need something with dual mode trucks
14:33:18  <supermop> like mop generic RVs
14:33:47  <supermop> build a dual mode truck in electric depot it will always spark
14:34:04  <supermop> build it in non-electric depot it will always smoke
14:39:12  <supermop> how do i make it so these mail trams dont refit to huge amounts of cargo
14:39:29  <supermop> (same number crates of x as bags of mail)
14:41:01  <andythenorth> ok I've got a save
14:42:25  <andythenorth> supermop: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phcuwkyql
14:42:31  <andythenorth> and use the capacity cb
14:42:41  <supermop> what if i make reefer disallow piece goods then manually allow fish and food
14:42:54  <supermop> shorter than listing every other piece good
14:43:07  <andythenorth> I just allow CC_REFRIGERATED and then add labels
14:43:27  <andythenorth> hmm, not even labels, just CC_REFRIGERATED
14:43:31  <supermop> no need to disallow piece good?
14:43:38  <andythenorth> no
14:43:54  <andythenorth> should get you food, fish, alcohol, milk
14:43:56  <andythenorth> a few others maybe
14:44:51  <supermop> i have those and fruit
14:45:06  <supermop> dont have beer tho
14:45:18  <supermop> never seen it delivered already chilled
14:45:26  <andythenorth> yeah fruit not beer
14:45:28  <andythenorth> my mistake
14:45:31  <andythenorth> Wolf01: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8871/NRT%20cache%20invalidation%20test.sav
14:45:47  <andythenorth> ^ there's a bus that shows smoke even on electric
14:46:16  <andythenorth> it's accurately changing power
14:46:32  <andythenorth> so I'd guess cache invalidation is called whereever the power change is called
14:46:34  <supermop> to be fair i was just going to make dual mode trucks have no effect as work around
14:46:40  <andythenorth> nah we need to fix
14:46:44  <Wolf01> Mmmh
14:47:07  <supermop> livestock vans - should they carry anything else?
14:47:10  <Wolf01> I thought that cache thing was sufficient
14:47:11  <supermop> fmsp?
14:48:35  <andythenorth> no just livestock
14:49:29  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I added "RoadVehUpdateCache(v);" on L1313
14:49:34  <andythenorth> seems to work fine
14:49:46  <supermop> andythenorth: that switch seems a little clumsy for each truck - i thought there was a way in nml to say mail takes up half as much capacity as good or something
14:49:48  <andythenorth> not sure what other cases I need to test
14:49:57  <andythenorth> supermop: nope
14:50:22  <supermop> "By default, passenger capacity is 4x, and mail/goods capacity 2x larger than capacity for other cargoes. The capacity set here is used for the default (i.e. first refittable) cargo. Use the cargo_capacity callback to avoid this effect."
14:50:26  <andythenorth> supermop: to be precise, you just need to do this https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting
14:50:36  <supermop> i am not getting that 2x effect
14:50:52  <andythenorth> read the docs from frosch123 to understand why (all of them) :P
14:50:58  <andythenorth> or just use the solution I gave :)
14:52:36  <supermop> oof
14:53:36  <andythenorth> Wolf01: https://gist.github.com/andythenorth/714d522c9c135c66cc3e96f81a81cba3
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14:54:38  <Wolf01> Yes, does that fix something or things work even without it?
14:55:16  <andythenorth> it fixes the issue in the savegame I linked
14:55:31  <andythenorth> I don't know if it's wise or good, but it looks comparable to the train fix
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14:56:04  <Wolf01> Push it
14:56:54  <Wolf01> Let samu test the game performance with and without it ;)
15:00:38  <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/commits/road-and-tram-types
15:00:40  <andythenorth> done
15:00:59  <supermop> whats left
15:01:24  <Wolf01> Merge into trunk
15:01:52  <supermop> are we doing town roads or no?
15:02:14  <Wolf01> Not yet, but we can prepare stuff for it
15:02:42  <supermop> ok i'll leave it commented out then
15:04:22  <Wolf01> Maybe with some help to refine it we might even push it
15:05:07  <andythenorth> town roads no
15:05:09  <andythenorth> not now
15:05:22  <andythenorth> I'm hoping this cache invalidation is the last blocking bug
15:05:33  <andythenorth> and then maybe $someone will help release
15:05:39  <Samu> test?
15:10:02  <Samu> what am I testing, sorry wasn't paying attention
15:14:22  <Wolf01> Do you know you can read the chat history, don't you?
15:19:03  <andythenorth> now what shall I do?
15:20:12  <Samu> do this https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6679
15:21:10  <andythenorth> hmm
15:21:16  <andythenorth> doesn't get my grf finished :P
15:22:37  <andythenorth> I need to fix the freighters, big mess
15:22:41  * andythenorth busy busy
15:23:14  <Samu> save good performing AIs!
15:23:39  <Samu> don't bankrupt them for working way too well
15:26:25  <Samu> question, will you eventually drop support for Original ship pathfinder?
15:26:54  <Samu> it's extremelly slow after a certain number of ships
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15:29:13  <Samu> i'm still testing NoNoCAB with Original pathfinder, it started on 26th February, and it's 4th March already, with no end in sight
15:29:19  <Samu> testing for 100 years
15:29:50  <Samu> still 17 years away
15:30:00  <Samu> 5000 ships
15:31:32  <Samu> @calc (100/7)*17
15:31:32  <DorpsGek> Samu: 242.857142857
15:31:43  <Samu> ops
15:32:37  <Samu> @calc ((100-17)/7)*100
15:32:37  <DorpsGek> Samu: 1185.71428571
15:32:47  <Samu> grr i fail at math
15:33:17  <Samu> @calc (100-17)/7
15:33:17  <DorpsGek> Samu: 11.8571428571
15:33:47  <Samu> 100/((100-17)/7)
15:33:51  <Samu> @calc 100/((100-17)/7)
15:33:51  <DorpsGek> Samu: 8.43373493976
15:34:18  <Samu> so it will end on 6th Match
15:34:35  <Samu> March
16:03:02  <ATMunn> so i recently started a new save
16:03:17  <ATMunn> and i've made a bit of a disaster that I'm not sure how to fix
16:03:34  <ATMunn> basically, i was expanding my rail line to include a forest and a sawmill
16:04:01  <ATMunn> but i forgot to actually expand the tracks to include the station by the sawmill, so there ended up being a bunch of wood left in a different station
16:04:36  <ATMunn> but now the problem is, the station by the sawmill is one tile too far away, and so nothing was actually delivered...
16:04:53  <ATMunn> and it's right by a slope, so it's not very easy to move it closer
16:06:36  <andythenorth> station walk?
16:06:39  <ATMunn> here's a screenshot: https://puu.sh/zArc7/0fd3882cf2.png
16:06:48  <ATMunn> ?
16:07:11  <andythenorth> that station covers the sawmill?
16:07:25  <andythenorth> Bufingburg Woods should cover the mill
16:07:31  <andythenorth> it's only 2 tiles away
16:07:36  <ATMunn> it doesn't for some reason
16:07:58  <andythenorth> screenshot with the accepted cargos?
16:08:17  <ATMunn> https://puu.sh/zArfm/d9cbc55304.png
16:11:27  <andythenorth> ATMunn: that's odd :o any newgrfs?
16:11:48  <ATMunn> nope
16:12:46  <ATMunn> actually there's one that i have for some reason
16:12:58  <ATMunn> "BigGUI 2.0.0"
16:13:04  <ATMunn> but i don't see how that should interfere
16:15:10  <Wolf01> Station walk might solve your issue
16:15:27  <Wolf01> Also you can put the station on slope if you want
16:15:38  <Wolf01> Even one track up and one down
16:15:57  <Wolf01> Also tea time
16:23:53  <andythenorth> weird issue
16:31:46  <ATMunn> station walk?
16:32:39  <ATMunn> oh i didn't realize stations could go on slopes
16:33:16  <andythenorth> station walk is adding tiles
16:33:25  <andythenorth> you can get newgrfs designed for it
16:33:40  <andythenorth> you can also ctrl-click when building to join stations together
16:33:44  <andythenorth> with gaps
16:42:16  <Eddi|zuHause> when stations still needed to be rectangles, usually you would add truck or bus stops to extend the range
16:42:30  <Wolf01> https://i1.wp.com/www.brothers-brick.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/silotruck_1.jpg?resize=632%2C474&ssl=1 andythenorth, silo truck
16:42:52  <Eddi|zuHause> so you would add a bus stop, then a truck stop, then delete the bus stop and add another, and then delete the truck stop and add another, ...
16:43:02  <Eddi|zuHause> this two-step motion was called "walking"
16:43:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it's now much easier
16:43:39  <Eddi|zuHause> with non-rectangular stations and ctrl+click to place disjoint station tiles
16:47:38  <andythenorth> nice truck Wolf01
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17:00:14  <ATMunn> is this a good junction? https://puu.sh/zAsTW/b08524df61.png
17:01:08  <ATMunn> (my trains drive on the right btw)
17:01:52  <Wolf01> Not enough space for waiting, trains will occupy the junction
17:02:49  <Wolf01> Also since they are PBS you can just remove the signals on the exit paths
17:02:57  <ATMunn> ok
17:03:25  <Wolf01> With PBS the reservation clears itself as soon as the last train car leaves a tile
17:03:51  <ATMunn> i assume pbs means path signals
17:03:59  <Wolf01> Yes
17:04:03  <ATMunn> ok
17:04:43  <ATMunn> so wait, i don't quite see what i need to do to fix it
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17:06:42  <Wolf01> https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:Pbs_terminus.jpg look at the "missing" signals on the extis track
17:07:22  <Wolf01> If you put one signal near the junction, a train will wait on the junction blocking it if the exit track is busy
17:07:48  <ATMunn> ah
17:07:54  <Wolf01> Without signals, a train should wait on the piece of track and then other trains can enter the station
17:10:20  <ATMunn> so is this better? https://puu.sh/zAten/682903d794.png
17:10:58  <Wolf01> A bit better, yes
17:11:31  <Alberth> one-way path signals reduces a lot of confusion
17:11:44  <Wolf01> There is still to little space between the station and the main junction, the diamond junction in front of the station could go
17:11:57  <ATMunn> ok
17:12:15  <Alberth> you do need a signal after the platform
17:12:33  <Alberth> terminus doesn't as there is no "after"
17:14:24  <Alberth> right now, pbs claims a path up to the next signal, so it blocks the junction after the platform now
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17:36:04  <ATMunn> gah i don't know what im doing
17:36:21  <ATMunn> i ended up putting all the signals back out of confusion >_>
17:36:42  <ATMunn> i did remove the junction in front of the station though
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21:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> why does music in odd meters fascinate me so much?
21:12:02  <supermop> because its different?
21:12:21  <supermop> you mean stuff like 'take 5' or like non-western music
21:13:05  <Eddi|zuHause> in transport fever there's a song in 5/4, and in Europa Universalis there's lots of songs in 7/4, also in stellaris
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21:14:25  <supermop> idk if ive actually ever consciously heard anything in 7/4
21:15:24  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-mr3vpqP6o
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21:21:56  <Eddi|zuHause> https://youtu.be/2NnGkpn2spM?t=160 <-- example of 7/4
21:22:25  <Eddi|zuHause> could also be 7/8
21:23:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i think that one is better described as 7/8
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21:29:05  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkvsgxIELm8 <-- this one is similar meter
21:33:34  <supermop> when i do "default_cargo_type:             [WOOD];"
21:33:52  <supermop> i get  error that 'This expression can not be assigned to a parameter'
21:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds wrong
21:34:06  <Eddi|zuHause> [WOOD] is a list containing the item WOOD
21:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas "default<whatever>" would be expected as one single item
21:36:08  <supermop> so just remove the [ ]?
21:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
21:37:38  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycl0vpbMfWw <-- i can't really decipher what meter this is in, but it sounds a bit too hasty for proper 4/4 or 2/4
21:43:28  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjekzZaRUXs <- and another example in 7
21:47:06  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:52:52  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqv0pjkX-oo <-- and this one is particularly crazy as if it has two meters competing with each other
21:55:30  <Eddi|zuHause> there's one 4/4 beat and one 6/8 beat, and at different parts of the song one dominates the other
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22:06:02  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMh6dYInfZI <-- and this one is "proper" 7/4
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